Coursera courses in lieu of college?

[Toocrazy!!]

DS is graduating high school in May and has maybe a 10% interest in the whole college thing. One of the options we've been considering are the Coursera certificates courses. We have been looking for the new google courses, but haven't seen any new updates on those for awhile. 

He is interested in data analysis, and from what I know of it, it would be a good fit for him in a lot of ways. 

Does anyone have any experience getting a job with just one of these certificates? 

[City Mouse]

I would imagine that could provide some knowledge that might be helpful in a job, but Ihave not heard of an employer accepting such a certificate in place of college or a trade school certificate. 

[mommyoffive]

Professional Certificate Training Programs - Grow with Google

Not sure what he is wanting to do. 

[Ailaena]

Certificates are good in addition to other things, not usually as a stand-alone.  For an actual Data Analysis title, he may be able to get an entry-level position with an associates degree, some certificates and a ton of projects.

if you mean more of a data scientist thing, he would need some heavy-duty projects, but since you can get a PhD in data science, it would be difficult.

I’m not knocking coursera classes; they are a good place to begin of you don’t want to go to college right away.   And you have the discipline to self-study.  

[Toocrazy!!]

18 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Professional Certificate Training Programs - Grow with Google

Not sure what he is wanting to do. 

Yes, this is what he is looking at  - the Data Analytics certificate. Good news that this says coming in March. I hadn't seen a new updated release date lately. Thanks for the link.

 

In prior news releases, Google said they would treat this as a college degree for hiring purposes. Maybe with their name behind it, other companies will give them the same weight. 

[regentrude]

Aside from the fact that I do not know if any employer puts much stock in them:

It is very difficult to complete self study online courses and requires much more motivation and self discipline than taking a college class with specific class times, instructor feedback, and human interaction. I would not subject a young person to this unless I knew they were extremely motivated to learn that way. 

[Farrar]

That's one of the few tracks that might be somewhat useful and meaningful and even then, it's going to be somewhat limited.

Community college is pretty inexpensive in most areas and will offer a lot more opportunities - most of them have a data science certificate and sometimes an associates for it. I would say be sure you've decided this is the right path before spending a ton of time on it.

[Kanin]

If he's not really interested in college right now, I'd support him not going. He could do some certificates/Coursera courses while working another job. If he's more interested in the outcome of a college degree than having the "college experience" of dorm, clubs, etc., he could always go to college in the future if he wants to do it. I think I would have been a much better student if I'd waited till I was older. 

Taking some low-stakes courses would be a good way to see if he still finds the topic interesting after getting his toes wet. 

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Community college is pretty inexpensive in most areas and will offer a lot more opportunities - most of them have a data science certificate and sometimes an associates for it.

I think this is a really smart idea. 

[Toocrazy!!]

Just now, Kanin said:

If he's not really interested in college right now, I'd support him not going. He could do some certificates/Coursera courses while working another job. If he's more interested in the outcome of a college degree than having the "college experience" of dorm, clubs, etc., he could always go to college in the future if he wants to do it. I think I would have been a much better student if I'd waited till I was older. 

Taking some low-stakes courses would be a good way to see if he still finds the topic interesting after getting his toes wet. 

I think this is a really smart idea. 

There is not a local community college offering this option, unfortunately.

 

I feel the same about college. He is checked out and I don't think he'd do well at this point. If he finds something he likes/is interested in, he will excel. 

[Toocrazy!!]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Aside from the fact that I do not know if any employer puts much stock in them:

It is very difficult to complete self study online courses and requires much more motivation and self discipline than taking a college class with specific class times, instructor feedback, and human interaction. I would not subject a young person to this unless I knew they were extremely motivated to learn that way. 

I agree completely. It is a hard way to learn. 

[Farrar]

There are online community colleges. If it's in your state, the cost may still be pretty low or even free, depending. 

There's a sort of irony here. If he's not motivated enough for college, he likely won't be motivated enough to finish a Coursera certificate either, as it takes some dedication to get work done this way - as others have said and you recognize. 

It's so low cost (and free to start on) that there's no reason to entirely dissuade a kid from trying it. It just doesn't seem like much of a plan either.

[Kanin]

8 minutes ago, Toocrazy!! said:

There is not a local community college offering this option, unfortunately.

 

I feel the same about college. He is checked out and I don't think he'd do well at this point. If he finds something he likes/is interested in, he will excel. 

There's also online school. He could take a course a semester while working, and see if he likes it. I did a master's online and was very pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it. 

One great and not-great thing about college is having to take a wide variety of courses, even if your interests are pretty narrow. I did my undergrad at a liberal arts college, though, so maybe it's different at a different kind of college. 

[Lanny]

In lieu of college?  No, I don't think so.   No way.  However if he wants to take a "Gap year" and dip his feet into 1 or 2 subjects to see if he is interested, then possibly Audit (Free) a few MOOC courses.  My first MOOC course was from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and was awesome. That was on the Canvas.Net platform and I don't think they offer courses to the public now, but once or twice a year I get an email from Embry-Riddle about a MOOC course they are offering. They usually offer a course one time but on Coursera or edX usually one can enroll today or tomorrow or whenever they want to enroll.

I am probably going to begin a MOOC course on  edX.org from The Linux Foundation, for a refresher in Linux. One that I had signed up for and begun, either my Laptop had issues or the server. It was an awesome course in U.S. Government from a Professor at Harvard. I can't go back and take it again, since I began auditing rather than as a paid student going for a certificate.

I get emails and other contacts about jobs almost daily. NEVER have I seen one list a Certificate as a requirement. They want a B.S. or an M.S. from an ABET accredited university.

I agree with regentrude that successfully completing an Asynchronous course requires a lot of Time Management skills and Self-Discipline.    I have completed some and I have dropped some when something came up and I had to make whatever came up as a priority and drop the MOOC course.  If he does take ONE MOOC course I suggest  the "Learning How to Learn" course on Coursera.org     Awesome.  Study in 25 minute chunks.  I am thinking if I begin the Linux course I will try to do three 25 minute chunks each day. They show it as a 14 week course.   I may start tomorrow.

Good luck to him

[Guest]

I would not accept this, personally, as a young person’s “plan” for the future. I fully agree with @Farrar‘s post. If he is unmotivated to go to college in the usual way, doing Coursera courses will be unlikely to succeed. Besides which I cannot imagine an employer would pick the guy with a Coursera certificate over a competing applicant with a four-year degree. 

At minimum, he should do a community college online Associate’s program. It’s also possible that success in completing that program may lead to him pursuing more and having more buy-in on his future on the whole. 

[chiguirre]

Another path to explore is enlisting in a tech field. Dd signed a four year contract as a Navy IT in order to try out the field, get a top secret clearance so she'd be eligible for defense contract work, get some certificates (Sec+, Net+ and then she'll see what's in demand) and get tuition assistance and the GI bill. If your son can pass the physical requirements and background check and doesn't mind the military lifestyle, this is a good option as an entry level job. 

 

ETA: You can definitely get a job with a clearance and some certs before finishing your BS. This is very common among Navy vets. Good online universities to check out for a BS are U of Florida for Comp Sci and Arizona State for a business Data Analysis BS.

Edited February 28, 2021 by chiguirre

[gardenmom5]

There are a lot of different programs for data management.  Some are "free", and you pay them after you're working.  Others are pay upfront.  some make lots of promises.   Depending  upon where you live, there are temp agencies (good way to get in the door.  a lot will do a "temp placement" before a permanent hire.) that specialize in placing data management.

  Look at what certs they have you do.    dd did one of those programs with a bunch of certs (after getting a BA in classics),  her only complaint is she could have done it elsewhere for less.  Her last job (covid shut down the company) was as the IT manager for the 200 person company.

It's a lot of independent study before testing.  how much of a self-starter is he?  

 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Ailaena said:

Certificates are good in addition to other things, not usually as a stand-alone.  For an actual Data Analysis title, he may be able to get an entry-level position with an associates degree, some certificates and a ton of projects.

if you mean more of a data scientist thing, he would need some heavy-duty projects, but since you can get a PhD in data science, it would be difficult.

I’m not knocking coursera classes; they are a good place to begin of you don’t want to go to college right away.   And you have the discipline to self-study.  

Dh's GED nephew makes more money doing computers than his multiple major uni degrees (incl. two MAs.)  brother.

yes - if you have the right certs and skills - you don't need an AA.

I don't know anything about coursera - but there are definitely data admin programs from multiple sources out there that are nothing but a long list of certs and can lead to a good paying job.

[Toocrazy!!]

8 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

There are a lot of different programs for data management.  Some are "free", and you pay them after you're working.  Others are pay upfront.  some make lots of promises.   Depending  upon where you live, there are temp agencies (good way to get in the door.  a lot will do a "temp placement" before a permanent hire.) that specialize in placing data management.

  Look at what certs they have you do.    dd did one of those programs with a bunch of certs (after getting a BA in classics),  her only complaint is she could have done it elsewhere for less.  Her last job (covid shut down the company) was as the IT manager for the 200 person company.

It's a lot of independent study before testing.  how much of a self-starter is he?  

 

I like the idea of finding what certificates temp agencies are recommending. I'll try to find more on that. 

He's a very independent learner, if he's motivated and curious.  A course with an end and a possible job is much more motivating to him right now than college - which he is seeing as more of the same worthless, just fill the schedule type classes he's had to take at high school. Whether that is the case or not, it's how he feels. He's kind of out of the box and a challenging personality at this point - he doesn't see the benefit of 4 years of college for the type of work he sees himself doing. He's a more of a learn with experience, doer, not theoretically this might help you one day. 

I guess I am putting a lot of stock into Google accepting these as the equivalent of a four year degree in their hiring, hoping that will give the certificate more credibility than other online courses. I guess that is to be seen since they are so new. So, maybe I'm not asking so much about a coursera course, which I can see the points made above, but whether Google's plan will be different. 

I like the idea of a community college certificate. An in person class, or one with timelines would be a better fit for sure. I'll have to see what I can find. 

 

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/google-plan-disrupt-college-degree-university-higher-education-certificate-project-management-data-analyst.html

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, Toocrazy!! said:

I like the idea of finding what certificates temp agencies are recommending. I'll try to find more on that. 

He's a very independent learner, if he's motivated and curious.  A course with an end and a possible job is much more motivating to him right now than college - which he is seeing as more of the same worthless, just fill the schedule type classes he's had to take at high school. Whether that is the case or not, it's how he feels. He's kind of out of the box and a challenging personality at this point - he doesn't see the benefit of 4 years of college for the type of work he sees himself doing. He's a more of a learn with experience, doer, not theoretically this might help you one day. 

I guess I am putting a lot of stock into Google accepting these as the equivalent of a four year degree in their hiring, hoping that will give the certificate more credibility than other online courses. I guess that is to be seen since they are so new. So, maybe I'm not asking so much about a coursera course, which I can see the points made above, but whether Google's plan will be different. 

I like the idea of a community college certificate. An in person class, or one with timelines would be a better fit for sure. I'll have to see what I can find. 

 

https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/google-plan-disrupt-college-degree-university-higher-education-certificate-project-management-data-analyst.html

That attitude is NOT going to get him a job.  He needs to have demonstrable skills for anyone to look at him.

1ds had a lot of computer skills, had allowed his CCNA to lapse (grr), had people who liked working with him - but he didn't have the required skills to legitimately be offered the job on a permanent basis.

 

Community colleges/tech schools both offer certification programs with a specific target in mind.  They are less intense and faster than an AA program, but they will get his foot in the door.

[Carrie12345]

If you look through job listings, you can see that some only require a high school diploma, but also that some companies are labeling data entry as data analysis. My own husband (who hires data entry) uses them interchangeably and it drives me nuts. Anyway, it’s still going to come down to his competition’s qualifications in that case. Certs are highly unlikely to beat out degrees.

[Farrar]

If he can be a motivated learner, there are a number of associates degrees that are specific to entering directly into a career, not transferring to a four year college.

[Katy]

DH is moving into data science from an engineering field. It’s expected to have an undergraduate in data science, computer science, engineering, or statistics and to be halfway through a graduate degree in data science to move into his department. You must be finished with the grad degree to supervise anyone. 
 

ETA: Note MIS/CIS business undergraduate degrees do not count towards this. It’s expected to have an advanced understanding of math and programming, as well as some knowledge of manufacturing in order to do the problem solving these positions require. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Katy

[MEmama]

I think making sure that your DS has specific expectations with his certs (as opposed to the opportunities available with an actual data science degree) will be beneficial for his understanding and planning (and your peace of mind). If he wants to work an IT help desk position he *might* be able to get by on certifications, but if he wants to work in actual data science...he isn’t going to compete with the education and internship/coop experience graduates will have.
 

As a previous poster mentioned, sometimes terms are (incorrectly) used interchangeably; your DS should be clear about what he realistically hopes to get out of self teaching a couple of courses.

Good luck to him! 

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

If you look through job listings, you can see that some only require a high school diploma, but also that some companies are labeling data entry as data analysis. My own husband (who hires data entry) uses them interchangeably and it drives me nuts. Anyway, it’s still going to come down to his competition’s qualifications in that case. Certs are highly unlikely to beat out degrees.

well, that's annoying.   I admit, I saw it as database management.  (you don't need a degree, but there's a list of certs you MUST have.)

[Bootsie]

In addition to structure, a college degree offers a student interaction with classmates, professors, and a career center.  These can help with job leads, letters of recommendation, internships, and many of the steps leading toward a career.  A college degree is more than simply a collection of classes.  In that sense, Coursera certificates are really different.  But, not all career paths require a college degree and college definitely isn't for everyone.  So, I don't see the certificates as a replacement for a colledge education; I do see it as a good match for some specific young people. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

At this point, I think Coursera and other MOOC courses are more useful for proving sustained interest in academics in general, the subject in particular and mastery of the basics thereof, rather than as a replacement for college in an academic sense. While Google would accept a Google certificate for data analytics, the portability of such a certificate is not yet tested, and I would not expect it to be as portable as a community college certification.

(For example, The Google IT Support one is considered a valid route to entry in the 1st Line IT Support Desk job I had - which was at a company with no connection to Google - but so was the equivalent of 12th grade education in IT plus proof of interest in computers beyond the prescribed curriculum. Only experience in 1st Line support/short-order programming, or a degree, was sufficient to get 2nd Line, and supervisory roles required a specific professional course in managing a service desk plus previous experience in a support role at that specific company).

As a plan to combine with work elsewhere, it's a reasonable path. Aside from the possibility that Google or another company to which the qualification is portable might make a hire, it may also make it easier to access other options for improving employability. However, I think it is reasonable to consider it a bridging/stopgap measure (depending on what happens when it is done) that might pay off in its own right, rather than a strategy that would definitely work by itself. If doing this path, I'd recommend pairing the data analytics course with any other courses Google suggests from other providers, in whatever sequence makes most sense (the IT Support one is advised to be done in conjunction with the COMPTIA A+ Certification, and the Google course is designed to complement it).

 

Edit: Also be aware that as this course may well provide ACE credits (the IT Support one is worth 12 ACE credits), doing it will prevent the year being retroactively treated as a "gap year", should college or community college become options again.

Edited March 1, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia
Gap year information