The Breakfast Club

[theelfqueen]

Muppet Boy (19) saw the Breakfast Club this weekend. He was discussing it with DH.

MB says "I don't think the Breakfast Club holds up as well as, like, Ferris Bueller" 

DH " I think it's pretty universal..."

Discussion continues....

MB says "Yeah maybe it doesn't do it for me because I didn't go to High School"

Look of shocked realization for DH... "Yeah, I guess that would.do it."

Homeschool.culture gap lol 

Edited September 1, 2020 by theelfqueen

[Guest]

Heh, true that. If you didn’t know a Goth, a Jock, a Popular Girl, a Loser, and a Nerd in high school, it’s probably lost on you. 

[MEmama]

As much as the movie meant to me as a teen, I can't see that it would be relevant to many young people today. There’s a massive generational gap between Gen X and our kids. In general teens today aren’t the angsty mess that we were—yes, I know I’m oversimplifying, but there’s not much in the movie for them to relate to. I’ve been watching some of my favorite 80s movies recently (omg COVID boredom) and I’m truly struck by how uncomfortable they are by today’s standards. I actually love that there is such an obvious disconnect; it shows we really have evolved in 30 years. In the same manner I’m impressed by many of today’s teen shows that portray normal life things like they are, um, normal, instead of as “issues” like in our day. 
 

I know people will jump in and say oh no, my kid loves those movies and that’s great, but at least from my teens perspective and my own in raising him and staying reasonably current, there are so many Gen X themes that come off as cringey and out of touch with the modern world. Just as there wasn’t much for teenage me to relate to in the 1950's movie portrayal of doting housewives and patriarchal oppression, I’m glad there’s a wide culture gap between the movies of our coming of age and those of today’s generation. 
 

 

 

[wintermom]

9 minutes ago, MEmama said:

As much as the movie meant to me as a teen, I can't see that it would be relevant to many young people today. There’s a massive generational gap between Gen X and our kids. In general teens today aren’t the angsty mess that we were—yes, I know I’m oversimplifying, but there’s not much in the movie for them to relate to. I’ve been watching some of my favorite 80s movies recently (omg COVID boredom) and I’m truly struck by how uncomfortable they are by today’s standards. I actually love that there is such an obvious disconnect; it shows we really have evolved in 30 years. In the same manner I’m impressed by many of today’s teen shows that portray normal life things like they are, um, normal, instead of as “issues” like in our day. 
 

I know people will jump in and say oh no, my kid loves those movies and that’s great, but at least from my teens perspective and my own in raising him and staying reasonably current, there are so many Gen X themes that come off as cringey and out of touch with the modern world. Just as there wasn’t much for teenage me to relate to in the 1950's movie portrayal of doting housewives and patriarchal oppression, I’m glad there’s a wide culture gap between the movies of our coming of age and those of today’s generation. 
 

 

 

Teens are even more so an "angsty mess," or at least they are being identified and treated for social anxiety, eating disorders, depression, etc. in many more cases that they were 30 years ago. 

[MEmama]

12 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Teens are even more so an "angsty mess," or at least they are being identified and treated for social anxiety, eating disorders, depression, etc. in many more cases that they were 30 years ago. 

Sure, they have the resources and societal okay to actually talk about issues and get treated. Rather than being more angsty (which isn’t necessarily synonymous with mental health anyway), they are more able to get control over their lives. That’s a huge positive in my opinion. 

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, Danae said:

There’s an interesting interview with Molly Ringwald talking about watching the movie with her daughter. 
 

The “happy ending is getting together with the guy who sexually harasses you” bit doesn’t hold up well.

Exactly.

[Sneezyone]

15 minutes ago, Danae said:

There’s an interesting interview with Molly Ringwald talking about watching the movie with her daughter. 
 

The “happy ending is getting together with the guy who sexually harasses you” bit doesn’t hold up well.

 

A lot of 80s movies are like this. Goonies, 16 Candles, Revenge of the Nerds? The date rape, misogyny and coarse humor are WAAAAAYYY worse than anything my kids have ever seen on screen. None of them hold up well.

[HS Mom in NC]

Being an INTJ, I've always disliked teens in general because I found them so unrelatable, especially when I was one, so I always agreed with Roger Ebert who found it disturbing that a grown man director like John Hughes could identify so much with them. I chose to attend adult classes in church rather than the teen classes, I watched movies and read books directed at adult audiences, and a friend of mine in high school once said of me, "You may be 16, but you've NEVER been a teenager in your life." I was sneering at everything as a Gen Xer, especially teen Gen Xers.

[Wheres Toto]

My 26 year old really like The Breakfast Club.  I'm sure my teenagers wouldn't be able to relate at all and they have no interest in watching it.   They don't watch many movies though.

I think most of the "relationship" movies from before 2000 or so have a lot of problems with them.   With some exceptions both ways - more recent ones with serious issues and older ones that are okay. 

[MEmama]

My favorite John Hughes movie was Some Kind of Wonderful. I watched it recently and as expected it didn’t hold up great, but I was glad  to see it didn’t have many of the more cringey elements that were normal for us but appalling to modern kids.
 

I had the hugest crush on Mary Stuart Mastersons character and could never could figure out why Eric Stoltz would overlook her. Lol

[Terabith]

I have watched a couple 80's movies with my oldest, but they are horrified by the sexism, the jokes about rape culture, and the homophobia inherent in a lot of movies I remember fondly.  Made them lividly angry.  

I've stopped watching movies from my childhood with them, even stuff like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  I'd prefer to remember them fondly rather than as how awful they really are in reality.  

Dead Poet's Society was the only one eldest actually enjoyed.  

[alisoncooks]

15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

I've stopped watching movies from my childhood with them, even stuff like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  I'd prefer to remember them fondly rather than as how awful they really are in reality.  

Yes this. DH and I have been disappointed with nearly every "you-gotta-watch-this-!" classic we've shared with our kids. Soooo many of these fondly-remembered movies did not age well. 

[Lady Florida.]

I wasn't a fan of most of the 80's teen movies because I was already an adult then and they didn't speak to me. I liked the movies about adults, especially single adults - Baby Boom. When Harry Met Sally, Desperately Seeking Susan, Moonstruck, Tootsie, Steel Magnolias, etc. As it turns out most of those didn't hold up well either. Some of them have iconic scenes or quotes ("Snap out of it!", "I'll have what she's having") but as a whole the movies are just so obviously from a very different time.

Ds saw The Breakfast Club when he was about 16-ish and thought it was meh. The soundtrack meant more to him than the movie - he's a fan of 70s and 80s music. He loved The Outsiders but I don't think that counts as an 80s movie since it was set in an earlier time period.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Lady Florida.

2 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

I think most of the "relationship" movies from before 2000 or so have a lot of problems with them.   With some exceptions both ways - more recent ones with serious issues and older ones that are okay. 

 

Totally agree with the above, and it goes way, way back.  I love the poetry of Shakespeare's language, but some of his plots -- The Winter's Tale, Much Ado about Nothing, etc. -- what the heck?

[Lady Florida.]

36 minutes ago, GGardner said:

 

Totally agree with the above, and it goes way, way back.  I love the poetry of Shakespeare's language, but some of his plots -- The Winter's Tale, Much Ado about Nothing, etc. -- what the heck?

Much Ado is my favorite Shakespeare comedy but yeah. Let's pretend she's dead because of you and make you marry her cousin, and then Surprise! 🤣

Also, The Taming of the Shrew. Yikes!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[alisoncooks]

On a totally random note, after reading this thread I took my girls to the bakery to get some yummy treats for my bday (big 4-0, woo!). Anyway, as we were walking out the door, the radio was playing "Don't You (Forget about me)" which felt like an epic alignment of my worlds. I may have mentally done the Judd Nelson fist pump as I exited the shop with my donuts...(I'm no longer allowed to do things like that in reality; they embarrass my teen. Go figure. 😉)

Edited September 1, 2020 by alisoncooks

[Sneezyone]

27 minutes ago, OKBud said:

It's interesting that so many people here don't like to see things that come from a time steeped in cultural mores that are different than today's.

 

Nah, I don't like to see things that perpetuate abusive behavior and disrespect as normal and cute regardless of when they're produced or what era they reflect. There are plenty of modern examples that I don't care for either.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, OKBud said:

It's interesting that so many people here don't like to see things that come from a time steeped in cultural mores that are different than today's.

 

You say "it's interesting", but what I hear is "I'm passive-aggressively judging you". Am I wrong?

[rebcoola]

I'm a millennial whose siblings and DH are all gen x.  I never related to Breakfast Club or really any John Hughes movies.  

[MEmama]

48 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Nah, I don't like to see things that perpetuate abusive behavior and disrespect as normal and cute regardless of when they're produced or what era they reflect. There are plenty of modern examples that I don't care for either.

Right. 

Our current watch-as-a-family show is Community, and I’m truly appalled at the scenarios they try to pass off as humorous. I get that the writers must have been intentionally pushing limits when it was written, but I still find some parts truly uncomfortable. We were just talking about it this morning; I thought the show was much more current but I guess it’s from ~ 2011, which to DS makes the cultural references really dated. DH reminded me that in 2011 even Obama wasn’t yet in favour of same sex marriage—we’ve come THAT far in such a relatively short time, and at the time “jokes” about ones sexuality wasn’t deemed as out of place as they obviously are now. 

What I find surprising is that people think disparaging cultural mores are okay just because they are old, as though blackface, rape and homophobia can be excused. Yes it’s important that we learn from history and movies, etc are great ways to do that, but only in context of learning from them and intentionally finding ways we can do better.

 

 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

What I find surprising is that people think disparaging cultural mores are okay just because they are old, as though blackface, rape and homophobia can be excused. Yes it’s important that we learn from history and movies, etc are great ways to do that, but only in context of learning from them and intentionally finding ways we can do better.

 

Indeed. I can watch these things from an anthropological/sociological perspective, sure, a study in what not to do/say. Not from an entertainment one. It's a good thing that our sensitivity to the -isms and phobias has grown, changed, evolved.

[katilac]

One of my kids after an 80s movie: "Did they not know about consent back then?" 

 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, OKBud said:

Oh did someone here try to excuse blackface, rape and homophobia from the past?

 

Do you enjoy or delight in films from your era that portray these things or are you just here to start some shit? What is your point?

[Terabith]

6 minutes ago, OKBud said:

You're asking if f I am passive aggressively judging people who don't like movies from the 80s (for any reason)? 

Yes you are wrong lol.

It's an interesting aversion. Especially in the case of a time period in which one actually lived. 

But as an important note, our kids did NOT live through the 1980's.  So while we who did may have nostalgic recollections of movies like The Breakfast Club, our children do not and are, quite rightly, horrified by tropes like racism, homophobia, rape culture, and a general lack of consent.  It makes us as parents see them with new eyes.  

That's a really good thing.  

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, OKBud said:

Hmm sorry something is going on here that I don't understand. Some subtext or something. I said I was interested in the fact that people don't like movies from the past because of what all is in them, which is what this thread is about. But something else must be going on so I'll leave y'all to it.

 

Or, you could pretend not to misunderstand the direct question that was put to you. Do you enjoy films from your era that delight in those themes? If not, why would you be at all confused about why others don't either. How is that interesting? If you DO delight in films from your era that celebrate those themes and use them to entertain, why?

Edited September 1, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I agree. 

My kids can't believe what they see in even stuff from the nineties.

Have you seen Friends lately? 🤣 It does not hold up.

Well, I thought Friends was disgusting and horrible when it came out when I was in college.  I legitimately don't think I've ever seen an entire episode all the way through, even though it was always on in the dorms, because I disliked it so much. 

Weirdly, South Park, which was always sarcastic, has held up well from that same time period.  

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Well, I thought Friends was disgusting and horrible when it came out when I was in college.  I legitimately don't think I've ever seen an entire episode all the way through, even though it was always on in the dorms, because I disliked it so much. 

Weirdly, South Park, which was always sarcastic, has held up well from that same time period.  

 

I never got into Friends. The characters and storyline didn't resonate with me, at all, but my roomies and I always kept our Thursday nights open for Living Single. I can still watch those episodes and get emotional. It was ahead of its time.

[Tanaqui]

21 minutes ago, OKBud said:

Hmm sorry something is going on here that I don't understand. Some subtext or something. I said I was interested in the fact that people don't like movies from the past because of what all is in them, which is what this thread is about. But something else must be going on so I'll leave y'all to it.

 

Maybe we're misreading you, in which case, I'm sorry. But to me you definitely sounded like you were saying that it's morally wrong or at least intellectually suspect to critically examine art from the past (or possibly even from the present). And it's not a giant leap for me to hear that in your words because I've seen other people say variations of that all the time. If the art is an esteemed classic then it's "you can't judge them by our standards", and if it's not then it's "it's just a movie/book/show, get over yourself!" and either way it is annoying to deal with when, yeah, there are things you're not interested in consuming because it clashes with your current values.

You say that's not what you meant, so I'm going to believe that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what other people are reacting to as well.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Tanaqui

[Tanaqui]

20 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I agree. 

My kids can't believe what they see in even stuff from the nineties.

Have you seen Friends lately? 🤣 It does not hold up.

 

It didn't hold up then! You cannot live in NYC and only surround yourself with white people. Certainly not on their supposed incomes.

[lmrich]

I had such great memories of going to the movies with my friends on a Friday or Saturday night. It was one of the few things to do back then, and we had a 99 cent movie theater. Sometimes a movie is so fondly remembered because of people's memories. Going back and watching them now, isn't the same, but I am not the same as I was at 15 or 16 either. 

I miss the movies.. and not even because of Covid - we hardly go as adults. I was a lucky teen being able to go so often with all the kids I used to do drama with. AND I can add to that - we always invited everyone to join us. It was so easy to invite everyone to the movies. 

[Tanaqui]

Just now, Bagels McGruffikin said:

I don’t think it holds up as badly as these movies.

From my teens, I still think Veronica Mars just nailed it, but it probably need another twenty years to marinate and become totally un-PC 🤭

 

The third season was always bad, though.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Plum said:

21 Jumpstreet was my teen tv show. I have no idea how that holds up.

And now I understand dd's fascination with first responder shows just a little bit more.💡

 

21 Jumpstreet was definitely a lot more progressive than the old rom-coms. I loved it too, as a tween. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

TBH, there were a lot of 80s popular touchstones that didn't resonate with me. I definitely liked the happy endings in John Hughes' films but I didn't see myself in those films, except for the rich/poor divisions. That felt genuine. Boyz in the Hood and New Jack City felt more relatable to me. Friends (which, to be fair is 90s) was just plain wierd. That, and Seinfeld, made no sense at all. I was always thinking, don't these people have something better to do? How do they make any money? Who would employ these idiots? Both of these shows ran while I was in college and just didn't match my experience at all.

We didn't hang out in a coffee shop off campus b/c they'd kick us out for not buying anything. We had an underground cafe (horrible coffee) that played jazz every other week (music students with a famous guest...it was LA after all) and we looked forward to that. We had free concerts at the quad and outdoor movies at the pool. I remember seeing Montell Jordan's debut performance of his one hit wonder in front of Tommy Trojan with my 'homies'. We hung out at home and went to an occasional concert b/c $$$$$. We lived for Saturday football games and Friday night pep-rallies b/c season tix were a major splurge at the beginning of the year when student loan residuals were distributed. We had a favorite late night food spot or two off campus but we were too broke/busy to go except for finals week. If we wanted to live the high life, we piled in *a* car and went to Malibu for a movie or pooled our money to buy a $5 hibachi grill, the smallest bag of charcoal, and some chicken and headed for the beach. And all of us had jobs! So, yeah, Friends was weird.

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Now, I am very fond of Goonies and Ferris Beuller's Day Off.  I think they hold up pretty well, and am not quite sure what sorts of issues there might be with those two?  But then I kinda see both of those as....I guess "fantasy drama"  or maybe "contemporary fantasy."  I mean, kids chasing after pirate treasure through underground tunnels, and then actually finding an intact pirate ship in a cave......it requires a bunch of suspension of belief that isn't quite required for something like a story about a bunch of teenagers hanging out in detention.

 

TBH - If I had said/done half the things those kids did, I would not be alive today. I tried to preview goonies once to see if I *could* watch it with my kids and OMG! NO. I thought about Ferris Buehler too but I now have a teen with a learner's permit and a boyfriend. I'm not giving ANYONE in this house any ideas.

[katilac]

18 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Now, I am very fond of Goonies and Ferris Beuller's Day Off.  I think they hold up pretty well, and am not quite sure what sorts of issues there might be with those two?   

Goonies had some racism going on. 

 

[katilac]

42 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ok, now I gotta ask....how does Back To The Future hold up?  (ignoring the very obvious lack of ability to predict 2015 in one of the movies lol)

It uses sexual assault as a plot device in a pretty gross way.

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, Plum said:

21 Jumpstreet was my teen tv show. I have no idea how that holds up.

And now I understand dd's fascination with first responder shows just a little bit more.💡

We have the entire run of 21 Jumpstreet on DVD.  My 26 year old daughter is a big fan (as I said, also a fan of The Breakfast Club though).   

The filming looks very old fashioned but I don't remember it having anything really inappropriate in the way the teen rom-coms did. 

[katilac]

53 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Are you referring to the scene with Biff and Lorraine?

That, but not just that.

But yes, that and everything surrounding it is just gross. Marty is going to fake sexually assault his mom (eww) so his dad can fake rescue her. Something would have had to happen to make the 'rescue' believable, and thinking you're about to be sexually assaulted can be pretty traumatic. Marty is from 1985 and also he is a human being, so he should have known this. 

Then, the entire happy ending hinges on her actually being sexually assaulted by Biff, and rescued by George only because he thought he was going into a fake rescue. That is a gross plot device for a lighthearted comedy. They're okay with making the mom think she's going to be sexually assaulted, and then no one is too worried that she actually was sexually assaulted. Things go disastrously, plot-wise, when the mom (as a teen) is doing what she wants and liking who she likes. Things go splendidly when she is sexually assaulted and deceived. Gross. 

And they do make it clear that Biff is assaulting her and not planning to stop anytime soon. 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by katilac

[katilac]

15 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

But, the thing is.......that already happened.  The whole point of Marty "faking" it is that he was trying to maintain the timeline.  He wasn't creating something new.  Biff had already tried to assault her and George had already saved her.  The whole process was to preserve the timeline while still getting him back home.  

 

Time travel movies have often used similar plot lines, even outside of sexual assault and so on.  It's the whole 'if you had the chance, would you kill Hitler when he was a baby' thing.  If we had time travel right now, and could go back to kill Hitler before he ever began the Holocaust.......how much different would our own timeline be.

In the case of the Back To The Future, if Marty doesn't allow the past events to continue, he himself disappears.  He's not trying to create a new assault....just preserve history so that he is still born.  It's not that things go splendidly when she is assaulted....it's that things remain exactly as they were.  Sexual assault is obviously a horrific thing....but it was happening back then, although the writers could have used a different plot device to get Lorraine and George together, I think the fact that George saves her from Biff indicates not that it was celebrated, but that it was obviously wrong, even though it did happen.  

 

 

No, Biff did not  sexually assault Lorraine and George did not rescue her in the original timeline. She falls in love with George in the original timeline when he falls out of a tree and gets hit by her dad's car (and we find out later he was peeping on her with binoculars). Marty messes that up because he gets hit by the dad's car and his mom starts falling for him instead.  

Biff is certainly aggressive and obnoxious with Lorraine in the original timeline, but nothing that rises anywhere near to the level of the sexual assault in the car. 

And things don't remain exactly as they were. Marty's mom and dad get together like they did in the original timeline, but there was no happy ending in the original timeline, they were miserable. In the new timeline, everything but them getting together changes. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by katilac

[katilac]

27 minutes ago, WendyAndMilo said:

Dang. The only shows I watched in my teens were X-Files, Twilight Zone and Fresh Prince.  I've never seen Back to the Future, Breakfast Club, Goonies, etc.  But If Fresh Prince doesn't hold up, rapture me now cuz the world isn't worth living in anymore.

Well, Fresh Prince and X Files were solidly 90s, you whippersnapper.