Situps

[Reefgazer]

I can not do 1 single sit-up and I want to be able to.  I can do lots of crunches and I can do a plank (not for a long time, but I can do it), but I can't do a situp.  I can't even do 1; not even a partial one.  How does one learn to do a sit-up, or build up enough strength in the abdomen to do this?  Where do I start to be able to do a single sit-up?  And no, I don't have muscle tears from child-bearing, so I can't even blame that.  I'm totally serious about needing guidance on where to start to be able to do this.

[gardenmom5]

there are six layers of abdominal muscles. 

I would start with a yoga class for older people - which will be more gentle, but will help with strength in the core.

Or there is also a ballet (based movement) series on youtube that is aimed at older adults, which has a focus on building the core while learning basic positions.

I like her as a teacher, she explains well, and goes slowly enough.   then she has well marked videos where she's strung the positions/movements together without stopping to explain and she just goes.  those are good for building strength - and depending upon your physical condition, it's a workout.  (she even has chair based for those who have more difficulty.)

[PeterPan]

45 minutes ago, Reefgazer said:

I can not do 1 single sit-up and I want to be able to. 

Well I ended up doing PT a few years ago for back problems, and that issue of the abdomen came up. The PT had me *lie on my stomach* and suck it in. Don't doubt me, just try, haha. That's about as low as you can go probably, haha. You can do it in bed, on your floor, whatever. Gravity is resisting and you're pulling your belly button up and in. Hold it for like a count of 15. We did that multiple times a day for several weeks. With time, that got me to where I could do a sit up. From there it was off to the races.

I will say that unless you have an explanation for why this happened, you really might want to do a check for diastasis rectus. I have no clue what I'm talking about and I didn't have it. I'm just saying if you have that split in the layers, doing sit ups could make it much much worse. So I'd be googling and checking for that before I began anything. 

You can do crunches but not a sit up? Planks in some ways work your back more than your core. There's a school of thought that planks are not good. Have you thought about taking a *small* amount of weight or even just an smallish unweighted ball and using that to give you some focus as you go from flat to sitting up? You might find it goes better than just huffing up. 

https://www.amazon.com/Delaviers-Sculpting-Anatomy-Women-Core/dp/1450434754/ref=sr_1_12?crid=39YJS318CWQIY&dchild=1&keywords=delavier+strength+training+anatomy&qid=1589170858&sprefix=delavier+st%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-12  This book is woman specific and gives multiple options. Might help you get some variety to hit more of the muscles in your abdomen. 

The issue with trying to work too hard on your core is you can actually strain your back. I ended up doing PT again for my back recently (yes, you read that right) and this guy had me doing knees to chest while lying flat on my back. That hits some of your core muscles along the way. Lunging while holding differing weights, anything where your core has to *balance* will also work that core. So like do lunges or walk up and down stairs carrying 5 lb in one hand, 10 lb in the other, that kind of thing. There are also what they'll call "anti-rotation" exercises, same idea. Anything where your core is activating to resist/balance. 

When gyms re-open, you can use one of those slanted/adjustable tables that hold your feet. Of course I also watched a video by AthleanX where he said instead of holding your feet down what you actually want is for them to be holding IN. Go figure. I've never managed to set it up to do it that way, but it seemed sensible. So you find something you can put your feet beyond and pull IN to create the resistance as you sit up. Me, I just do sit ups from fully flat these days, because I'm lazy. If I have a dumbbell handy, I hold that because I enjoy it. Weighted balls, whatever you've got. 

Core is kind of the never-ending saga, sigh. I don't know if that's true for everyone or just me. And I'm with you. I can do sit ups with a 16 pound ball using some machine at the gym and then when I go to do just a straight 100 sit ups on the floor it's murder. And for me sometimes one type or another movement is more easy, depending on what I've been doing. 

I actually asked my PT this time (and he was the bomb, really amazing) if I should be doing more sit ups, and he's like no, he likes life level work. He really likes the lunges with imbalanced weight, that kind of thing. And it's a really good question, did the plank improve your ability to do DYNAMIC motions and work in life or was it a splinter skill? His point was to get the muscles in motion, because that's where life is and life is what you're trying to improve.

Edited May 11, 2020 by PeterPan

[Carrie12345]

I’m not an expert (but I have taken personal trainer courses.) I wouldn’t really wage a guess as to what’s going on there without seeing your crunches, planks, and sit ups. But I will say that there are a million great core exercises out there, so there’s no specific need to master the type of sit ups that we were taught in elementary school.

[Pawz4me]

I thought for several years now many fitness experts and physical therapists have recommended against sit ups due to the strain (and very real potential for injury) they put on the spine?

ETA: DS24 is very into fitness and he won't do sit ups. I *think* he does some crunches, though.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Pawz4me

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I thought for several years now many fitness experts and physical therapists have recommended against sit ups due to the strain (and very real potential for injury) they put on the spine?

ETA: DS24 is very into fitness and he won't do sit ups. I *think* he does some crunches, though.

I took some classes at the gym with a girl who had a BS in exercise science, and she was quite knowledgeable. She could do amazing workouts because she really understood the *why*. Anyways, you're right that she seldom had someone sit there and just do sit-ups. She'd do 100 occasionally as a fitness test, just to let people time themselves and see where they were at. But for core work for each class, she'd usually have 4-5 different types of core exercises and do small amounts of each. She also integrated core work *dynamically* into the workouts. Back to that *dynamic* thing again. She had this "sit up, git up" that was good for that, totally killer, and it emphasized that point is what good is your workout if you can't GET UP OFF THE FLOOR, lol.

Also, think about how your basic, foundational dynamic movements, like a burpee, are hitting your core. That's why these things are done, because they're an easy way to work a lot of muscles in one fluid movement. And yet people shy away from burpees because they're pretty tiring, which, hello, is the clue. 

And woo, look at this, googlefu turns up an article saying what I'm suggesting, that burpees are a great, safer way to work your core and get that strength you're wanting https://theorganicwhey.com/blogs/the-organic-whey-39/17833472-burpees-the-best-exercise-for-a-strong-core  Now I will tell you, you can do too many, lol. Like start with 10 *properly done* in slow motion. When you can do 10 completely properly, not sloppily, then move up to 3 sets of 10. And then when you can do those nicely, try moving up to doing 100 once a week and keeping the other 2X a week at no more than say 30. There are some muscles you can strain with overuse if you just go crazy, and we aren't spring chickens, lol. For me, those are amounts that I can do without overuse problems. 

Ok, on the sit up get up, she must have modified because I'm not finding it. There is a turkish sit up get up, but that I found really awkward. For this what she called a sit up get up, you were flat, and you sat up and then planted your feet and stood up, one fluid motion. No weights, no weird angles, nothing. Just can you get up off the floor when you're down and out, lol.

I think I found it https://www.shapeplus.com/sit-up-stand-up/ Yes, the video there shows it. However that girl is pinning her toes, which she shouldn't need to do given how clearly strong she is, lol. Don't expect them to look so fast and fluid when you start.  Burpees are more foundational. This is just an option for variety once in a while.

Edited May 11, 2020 by PeterPan

[Reefgazer]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:05 AM, PeterPan said:

I took some classes at the gym with a girl who had a BS in exercise science, and she was quite knowledgeable. She could do amazing workouts because she really understood the *why*. Anyways, you're right that she seldom had someone sit there and just do sit-ups. She'd do 100 occasionally as a fitness test, just to let people time themselves and see where they were at. But for core work for each class, she'd usually have 4-5 different types of core exercises and do small amounts of each. She also integrated core work *dynamically* into the workouts. Back to that *dynamic* thing again. She had this "sit up, git up" that was good for that, totally killer, and it emphasized that point is what good is your workout if you can't GET UP OFF THE FLOOR, lol.

Also, think about how your basic, foundational dynamic movements, like a burpee, are hitting your core. That's why these things are done, because they're an easy way to work a lot of muscles in one fluid movement. And yet people shy away from burpees because they're pretty tiring, which, hello, is the clue. 

And woo, look at this, googlefu turns up an article saying what I'm suggesting, that burpees are a great, safer way to work your core and get that strength you're wanting https://theorganicwhey.com/blogs/the-organic-whey-39/17833472-burpees-the-best-exercise-for-a-strong-core  Now I will tell you, you can do too many, lol. Like start with 10 *properly done* in slow motion. When you can do 10 completely properly, not sloppily, then move up to 3 sets of 10. And then when you can do those nicely, try moving up to doing 100 once a week and keeping the other 2X a week at no more than say 30. There are some muscles you can strain with overuse if you just go crazy, and we aren't spring chickens, lol. For me, those are amounts that I can do without overuse problems. 

Ok, on the sit up get up, she must have modified because I'm not finding it. There is a turkish sit up get up, but that I found really awkward. For this what she called a sit up get up, you were flat, and you sat up and then planted your feet and stood up, one fluid motion. No weights, no weird angles, nothing. Just can you get up off the floor when you're down and out, lol.

I think I found it https://www.shapeplus.com/sit-up-stand-up/ Yes, the video there shows it. However that girl is pinning her toes, which she shouldn't need to do given how clearly strong she is, lol. Don't expect them to look so fast and fluid when you start.  Burpees are more foundational. This is just an option for variety once in a while.

OK, see, regarding that video:  Once I am sitting up, getting up is no problem.  But I can't get to the "Sitting up" part.  That's what I mean when I say I can not even do one.

[gardenmom5]

supposedly this is good for core/abdominals and you can start where you are.

 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Reefgazer said:

OK, see, regarding that video:  Once I am sitting up, getting up is no problem.  But I can't get to the "Sitting up" part.  That's what I mean when I say I can not even do one.

Did you catch my post earlier where I said I had been there and that the exercise the PT had me do for it was on my stomach, on the floor? You tighten your muscles, pulling your belly button in and up toward your shoulders. Because you're on your stomach, gravity is pulling the muscles, down, creating resistance. 

[baileygirl]

I was pretty much there last summer when I joined a CrossFit gym. They used ab mats, and that helped a lot. 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Sit-ups put a lot of strain on your pelvic floor, as well as your lower back. I have no idea whether I can do a sit-up. I can sit up in bed, with my legs extended under the covers, so maybe that counts? But, really, I have problems with stress incontinence and have had problems with loosey-goosey v@ginal walls, so I don't want to add more strain in that area. I went to a physical therapist who specializes in the pelvic floor, and she highly recommended that I NOT do sit-ups or crunches. She gave me many other exercises that would strengthen my pelvic muscles and my core. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'd be nervous about doing sit-ups for all the reasons mentioned above- stress and strain on back and pelvic floor, possible undiagnosed diastasis rectii, etc.  

 

But I will also answer your question directly:

One way to work towards being able to perform a rep of any exercise is to do a negative of that exercise.  This applies to all sorts of things, like pull-ups, pushups, sit-ups, squats, etc.  You start in the "Up" position, then lower yourself as slowly as possible to the "down" position.  At first, slow will be very fast, but as your strength improves, you will be able to lower yourself more and more slowly.  Do these in sets, just like real sit-ups in reverse.  Lower yourself, then use an elbow or whatever to get yourself back to the up position and lower yourself again.  Do whatever progression you are capable of, maybe a set of 5, then 3, then 1 for a week or two, then gradually build up to 10, 10, 10.  At that point, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a sit-up.  

 

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

She gave me many other exercises that would strengthen my pelvic muscles and my core. 

Ok, I'm curious. What were some of the things she had you doing that hit core? 

[cintinative]

I don't normally do sit ups, but if I do, I put my feet under something to hold them in place. My biggest issue with doing sit ups is that my feet slide.  But I agree with the others--there are tons of exercises you can do to strengthen those muscles other than sit ups.

[wintermom]

I used to do tons of sit-ups in martial arts classes 10 years ago. I also taught martial arts classes to children and adults, and with children you really notice how the physics of sit-ups work. Children had the toughest time doing sit-ups because their heads are so heavy relative to the rest of their body. Having heavy weight (head/shoulders) far away from the fulcrum of the sit-up (bottom), means that it takes a great amount of force to lift the shoulders and head. 

Now, I just do various forms of leg lifts/motions while lying on my back (bicycle motion, for example) as I can control the strain on my lower back much better. I can bend my legs to make the lifts easier, or raise my legs higher in the air. 

[Reefgazer]

21 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Did you catch my post earlier where I said I had been there and that the exercise the PT had me do for it was on my stomach, on the floor? You tighten your muscles, pulling your belly button in and up toward your shoulders. Because you're on your stomach, gravity is pulling the muscles, down, creating resistance. 

I did, and my DS told me something very similar that he learned in his football training, so I am going to put together a modified exercise regimen this coming week and incorporate that too!

[Reefgazer]

17 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I'd be nervous about doing sit-ups for all the reasons mentioned above- stress and strain on back and pelvic floor, possible undiagnosed diastasis rectii, etc.  

 

But I will also answer your question directly:

One way to work towards being able to perform a rep of any exercise is to do a negative of that exercise.  This applies to all sorts of things, like pull-ups, pushups, sit-ups, squats, etc.  You start in the "Up" position, then lower yourself as slowly as possible to the "down" position.  At first, slow will be very fast, but as your strength improves, you will be able to lower yourself more and more slowly.  Do these in sets, just like real sit-ups in reverse.  Lower yourself, then use an elbow or whatever to get yourself back to the up position and lower yourself again.  Do whatever progression you are capable of, maybe a set of 5, then 3, then 1 for a week or two, then gradually build up to 10, 10, 10.  At that point, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a sit-up.  

 

I am not so much bothered by the fact can't do a situp, but I am bothered by the fact I can do other types of core exercises but can't do this one type.

[Reefgazer]

17 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I'd be nervous about doing sit-ups for all the reasons mentioned above- stress and strain on back and pelvic floor, possible undiagnosed diastasis rectii, etc.  

 

But I will also answer your question directly:

One way to work towards being able to perform a rep of any exercise is to do a negative of that exercise.  This applies to all sorts of things, like pull-ups, pushups, sit-ups, squats, etc.  You start in the "Up" position, then lower yourself as slowly as possible to the "down" position.  At first, slow will be very fast, but as your strength improves, you will be able to lower yourself more and more slowly.  Do these in sets, just like real sit-ups in reverse.  Lower yourself, then use an elbow or whatever to get yourself back to the up position and lower yourself again.  Do whatever progression you are capable of, maybe a set of 5, then 3, then 1 for a week or two, then gradually build up to 10, 10, 10.  At that point, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a sit-up.  

 

I like this idea!  This makes sense to me.  I am going to incorporate several ideas from this thread into my modified workout plan this coming week.

[KungFuPanda]

You can help strengthen your abs a wee bit at a time if you just THINK about using them throughout the day.  In the course of your regular day,  try to get into the habit of relaxing the muscles in your back and supporting your spine with your abs more and more.  It's a habit you can develop if you put some time into thinking about.  You'll have take some time to find those muscles and learn to hold and release them, but shifting your posture can help strengthen your abs and take pressure off your back.

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

You can help strengthen your abs a wee bit at a time if you just THINK about using them throughout the day. 

Sort of also in that vein, what about those wobble cushions, wobble stools, etc.? I got my ds one and I've been sitting on it myself. I have no clue if it will do any good, lol. They say horse riding also does, so there you go. Op can just tell her dh she needs a horse. 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:09 AM, PeterPan said:

Ok, I'm curious. What were some of the things she had you doing that hit core? 

I went to the PT four times, with visits 7-10 days apart. The exercises were very specific, but here's a general description. (Equipment needed: 65cm exercise ball and a squishy 10-inch diameter ball). In addition to the following exercises, I did a whole bunch of Kegals throughout.

There were three levels of exercises.
The first week involved sitting on an exercise ball while squeezing a smaller ball between my knees, moving my pelvis forward/back, side-to-side, or rotating my pelvis round and round, first with both feet on the floor, then doing each movement with one foot off the floor (then again with the other foot), all while squeezing the smaller ball between my knees.  I went through all the exercises twice, which took about 10 minutes.

After doing the first level exercises daily for a week, I switched to a series of exercises lying on my back, again with the small ball between my knees, with my foot/feet on the wall, lifting my pelvis off the floor, and raising/lowering one foot, or raising/lowering my pelvis with one then the other foot raised off the wall. (again, there were specific motions/exercises/reps, plus more Kegals)

Third week involved the same exercises as the second week, lying on my back with my feet up, except that, instead of having my feet against the wall, I had them on exercise ball. This was super challenging, so at first I had the ball pressed against the wall to keep it under control. Eventually, I was able to do most of the exercises with free ball.  (I was also able to cough and sneeze without leaking, which was the goal)

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Suzanne in ABQ said:

 (I was also able to cough and sneeze without leaking, which was the goal)

That's amazing progress! And did the PT have tips on how to do the kegels correctly? 

[Reefgazer]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:29 AM, PeterPan said:

Well I ended up doing PT a few years ago for back problems, and that issue of the abdomen came up. The PT had me *lie on my stomach* and suck it in. Don't doubt me, just try, haha. That's about as low as you can go probably, haha. You can do it in bed, on your floor, whatever. Gravity is resisting and you're pulling your belly button up and in. Hold it for like a count of 15. We did that multiple times a day for several weeks. With time, that got me to where I could do a sit up. From there it was off to the races.

I will say that unless you have an explanation for why this happened, you really might want to do a check for diastasis rectus. I have no clue what I'm talking about and I didn't have it. I'm just saying if you have that split in the layers, doing sit ups could make it much much worse. So I'd be googling and checking for that before I began anything. 

You can do crunches but not a sit up? Planks in some ways work your back more than your core. There's a school of thought that planks are not good. Have you thought about taking a *small* amount of weight or even just an smallish unweighted ball and using that to give you some focus as you go from flat to sitting up? You might find it goes better than just huffing up. 

https://www.amazon.com/Delaviers-Sculpting-Anatomy-Women-Core/dp/1450434754/ref=sr_1_12?crid=39YJS318CWQIY&dchild=1&keywords=delavier+strength+training+anatomy&qid=1589170858&sprefix=delavier+st%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-12  This book is woman specific and gives multiple options. Might help you get some variety to hit more of the muscles in your abdomen. 

The issue with trying to work too hard on your core is you can actually strain your back. I ended up doing PT again for my back recently (yes, you read that right) and this guy had me doing knees to chest while lying flat on my back. That hits some of your core muscles along the way. Lunging while holding differing weights, anything where your core has to *balance* will also work that core. So like do lunges or walk up and down stairs carrying 5 lb in one hand, 10 lb in the other, that kind of thing. There are also what they'll call "anti-rotation" exercises, same idea. Anything where your core is activating to resist/balance. 

When gyms re-open, you can use one of those slanted/adjustable tables that hold your feet. Of course I also watched a video by AthleanX where he said instead of holding your feet down what you actually want is for them to be holding IN. Go figure. I've never managed to set it up to do it that way, but it seemed sensible. So you find something you can put your feet beyond and pull IN to create the resistance as you sit up. Me, I just do sit ups from fully flat these days, because I'm lazy. If I have a dumbbell handy, I hold that because I enjoy it. Weighted balls, whatever you've got. 

Core is kind of the never-ending saga, sigh. I don't know if that's true for everyone or just me. And I'm with you. I can do sit ups with a 16 pound ball using some machine at the gym and then when I go to do just a straight 100 sit ups on the floor it's murder. And for me sometimes one type or another movement is more easy, depending on what I've been doing. 

I actually asked my PT this time (and he was the bomb, really amazing) if I should be doing more sit ups, and he's like no, he likes life level work. He really likes the lunges with imbalanced weight, that kind of thing. And it's a really good question, did the plank improve your ability to do DYNAMIC motions and work in life or was it a splinter skill? His point was to get the muscles in motion, because that's where life is and life is what you're trying to improve.

So, I ordered this book you recommended as soon and I received it today.  It looks like a fantastic book!.  The exercises are plentiful, grouped logically, and the directions are explicit with informative pictures!

[Laura Corin]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:57 AM, Reefgazer said:

I am not so much bothered by the fact can't do a situp, but I am bothered by the fact I can do other types of core exercises but can't do this one type.

It's funny how these things can bug one. I can't stand up with my legs crossed without using my hands. However I can easily stand up from the ground by putting my feet flat on the floor and moving through a squat to standing. I suspect this means I have a fairly strong core and legs. The cross legged thing still irritates me though. I worked on it for a bit, but got nowhere. This is the stand I can do - the woman on the right at 28 seconds:

https://youtu.be/n_0MuVsyHfQ

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Laura Corin

[Matryoshka]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

It's funny how these things can bug one. I can't stand up with my legs crossed without using my hands. However I can easily stand up from the ground by putting my feet flat on the floor and moving through a squat to standing. I suspect this means I have a fairly strong core and legs. The cross legged thing still irritates me though. I worked on it for a bit, but got nowhere. This is the stand I can do - the woman on the right at 28 seconds:

https://youtu.be/n_0MuVsyHfQ

I was going to post that I was the same - the last time I tried that, I could.not.get.up. with my legs crossed - at least without using at least one hand, but I knew that recently I've been able to do with with feet flat from squat.  But I just tried it again - and I can do it!  It's not even hard anymore. When did I gain that skill??  Hadn't tried it once since the last time.  It's like when I recently had dh install a pull-up bar and I found I could do one (only one, only one position) - but I'd never even come close before.  So good news - skills are transferable! 

To make you feel much better, Laura, I still can't even come close to doing wheel pose (at least not from the floor), which I know you can do!  Weird, when I was a kid I could do that no problem, but not a pull-up.

@Reefgazer as far as situps go, I also couldn't do one at.all. for the longest time. Like I couldn't get anywhere, just flailed around on the floor. Started with Pilates - it focuses on all the core muscles, in all different ways, really small movements that add up.  It took me for.ever. to finally get to a real situp, but now I can do them easily.  But doing even things that don't seem to be working toward situp - the reverse stuff people mentioned, boat pose and variations, working on lateral twists, things that focus on just upper or lower core, and even your back (like swimmer, superman, swan and cobra) and keeping your shoulders down (which keeps your core muscles engaged) really helps.  It eventually comes together!  I can still remember the day I finally managed one - I was like, what.just.happened.... 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:36 PM, PeterPan said:

That's amazing progress! And did the PT have tips on how to do the kegels correctly? 

 

PeterPan, I tried to PM you with details about all  the exercises, but got an error message that says you can't receive messages. If you're interested, PM me your e-mail address, and I'll send the info to you.

[Reefgazer]

On 5/14/2020 at 5:51 AM, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I'd be nervous about doing sit-ups for all the reasons mentioned above- stress and strain on back and pelvic floor, possible undiagnosed diastasis rectii, etc.  

 

But I will also answer your question directly:

One way to work towards being able to perform a rep of any exercise is to do a negative of that exercise.  This applies to all sorts of things, like pull-ups, pushups, sit-ups, squats, etc.  You start in the "Up" position, then lower yourself as slowly as possible to the "down" position.  At first, slow will be very fast, but as your strength improves, you will be able to lower yourself more and more slowly.  Do these in sets, just like real sit-ups in reverse.  Lower yourself, then use an elbow or whatever to get yourself back to the up position and lower yourself again.  Do whatever progression you are capable of, maybe a set of 5, then 3, then 1 for a week or two, then gradually build up to 10, 10, 10.  At that point, I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a sit-up.  

 

I just want to update here:  *This* worked!  I can now do 3 whole situps, LOL!

[Katy]

I see you succeeded.  You may also try doing them on an exercise ball (with your feet on the floor).  The ball is flexible enough you may find you don't tense your back to avoid uncomfortable positions on the floor and you may magically be able to do 20. It's also unstable enough to help with balance.

[Reefgazer]

19 hours ago, Katy said:

I see you succeeded.  You may also try doing them on an exercise ball (with your feet on the floor).  The ball is flexible enough you may find you don't tense your back to avoid uncomfortable positions on the floor and you may magically be able to do 20. It's also unstable enough to help with balance.

I think I might be able to bang out more - i'm just too intimidated to try.  I'll increase week by week.