The Homeschooling Cult

[shinyhappypeople]

(This is sort of frustrated, ranty rambling.  Thank you for bearing with me)

I'm doing some soul-searching as my family wades through an enormously difficult time.  Anyway, it got me thinking about education and the idea that we can get into a cultish mindset about homeschooling.  It makes you feel like you have no choices beyond parent-directed home education.  And this is the best education option, and if you don't homeschool, then do you even love Jesus or your children?  

But, you know what?  I suck at teaching math and science, and it shows, and it's an issue.  Not every parent can teach every subject.  Stop pretending we can!  And YES some kids really do learn best in classroom settings.  And NO it's not fair to expect kids to self-teach subjects that we're weak in.  And the socialization thing... OK, it's more about socializing, but it does matter.  Let's stop pretending it doesn't or that once a week youth group is going to cut it for most kids.  We need to put as much thought into our socializing plans (tailored to the needs of each kid) as we do into picking the rest of our curriculum.

I value homeschooling (really!).  We may in fact continue doing it (with major tweaking). But I find myself weary of the rigid mindset that education choices are black/white, good/bad.  And I want to kick myself for falling into that mindset.   My heart was in the right place.  My motive has always been love.

 

 

[maize]

(((hugs))); rough times can make us reexamine a lot of things.

I call my approach to education flex-schooling--my goal is to use use whatever resources are available to me to meet the physical, social, emotional, and educational needs of my family. 

I've done a mix of independent homeschooling, virtual charter schools, and brick and mortar school with my kids. What works best for a given family at a given time is dependent on their specific circumstances.

I think the cult-like effect comes in part from the high psychological barrier people have to overcome to take a path outside the social norm--usually we have to have strong feelings about the rightness of that path to be motivated to do it. I didn't really experience that because I mostly just adopted my own parents' approach to education, which included lots of different variations ranging from homeschool to various public and private schools to boarding school. It was very much: look at all options and choose what seems to best fit the situation and needs.

Edited January 28, 2020 by maize

[Momto6inIN]

I know several people who are like this. Some of them hs and some of them send their kids to ps. Both groups are fully convinced they are right and that the other group is full of idiots. It's just human nature.

I don't think there are necessarily more hs'ers than ps'ers who are cultish about it, in fact it's probably more the opposite, but when you hs you generally meet more people who also hs and who are willing to say bad stuff about ps out loud to other folks who hs. When I had my kids in ps I heard much more about those stupid freakish hs'ers who were ruining their children because I met mostly other ps people who were willing to say bad stuff about hs'ers out loud to other ps'ers.

Do what's best for your kids, whatever that is.

[8filltheheart]

First, I am so sorry you are struggling and that your family is going through a difficult time. I hope you can find a better path soon.

My post below is not meant to address your need to vent. Vent away!!! But, I am going to comment on your comments, so please don't read them if you will take them personally. They arent personal, simply an alternative perspective.

Instead of using the pejorative cult, you could think instead in terms of culture. What different families value will vary from family to family. By outside standards, some homeschooling cultures will be superior to public school, private school, and the avg family's opportunities; other homeschooling cultures will have substandard outcomes compared to those of a public school, etc. Most homeschooling families' cultures probably fall somewhere in between.

Whether or not your perceptions apply to outside families' definitions of their own culture is where you might see cult and they see defining their personal boundaries. What you might perceive as cult might be their defensive reaction to having to define their culture.

FWIW, many of the pejorative descriptors that you used to define homeschooling as cult are descriptors that define how I would go about explaining our family's homeschooling culture. I don't feel the need to defend my point of view to other people because I know that our culture leads to solid adult outcomes, and, more importantly,  it is OUR culture, what we have decided is paramount for our family. For example, i might share that, yes, I do see homeschooling as our family's only option. That statement has has nothing to do with seeing other people's choices as in anyway sinful or poor decisions. I make that declaration bc of our family's culture. Our family functions around our homeschool. 

Someone who is less sure of their decisions may interpret that statement as a comment on their personal choices when I dont care what individual families decide to do.

I often make the statement that I believe my homebrewed classes are superior outsourced classes/co-ops bc I can control content, pace, output to meet the needs of the individual. My comments are meant to encourage parents that they can do this bc the voices saying you can't are the dominate ones. If someone wants to interpret that sort of comment as a judgment about their choices, that is taking a statement and taking it personally. 99%+ of the homeschooling messages out there are about outsourcing.

FWIW, I think the sentiments in your OP are a reflection of being immersed in a homeschooling community with those viewpoints and no support for alternative views. IRL, I dont know any homeschoolers who dont outsource just about everything from middle school up (or even strictly using programs like Seton for elementary) or dont end up sending their kids to high school. Based on that and the flip perspective of the OP, I would then have to infer everyone we know IRL would assume our kids are being deprived of "good."

Sometimes, assessing our chilren and family against others is harmful. Assessing our family's real culture against what our goals, wants, and current life realities are is really more important than any outside pressures.

 

 

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I agree with @8FillTheHeart that the culture has moved on. I know the homeschool bubble still exists, but if you are feeling like these are the messages that constrain you from "flex-schooling" then it just means that you are still in (or too near) one of those bubbles. 

I've been so far out of the homeschool bubble for enough years that I hardly recognized what you were saying. It was like a gigantic stereotype, almost cartoonish...yet I do recall when I knew people who thought that way. And I do still homeschool, just without that culture. 

"Out here," on the outside, public school parents don't criticize me for hs'ing anymore. They're wondering if that might be an option, to get their child out of bullying and standardized testing and reading or math classes that make no sense. Homeschooling parents don't criticize public school families -- the prevalent thought seems to be that if a child is thriving, learning, safe, and happy in ANY academic setting, for the love of God, don't move him. Give thanks and stay put. But as has been said, it seems that the vast majority of families have tried it all and are willing to look for blends and compromises.

If you need to continue homeschooling even though life circumstances are making it difficult, there's support for that. If you need to turn off some (aging and dated) voices about hs'ing and utilize other options, there's support for that. Even on these forums, people have been through it all. ❤️ 

[maize]

I also don't see a lot of "homeschool is the only right way to educate children" adherents in my local community. In fact I can only think of one.

I like 8's approach of considering family culture; homeschooling can be both a natural outgrowth of family culture and a driver of family culture. 

For myself, I find I also have to consider family circumstances--what are my abilities? What are my children's needs? What kind of support do I (or don't I) have? Given the overall set of circumstances can I effectively meet my family's needs through exclusive homeschooling? 

The other thing I have had to remind myself over and over is that perfection--in education, in general child-rearing, in family life--is not a reasonable goal. I would hand my kids every blessing, every opportunity, every security--if I could. I can't. I have to work within imperfect realities and so do they--that's how life works. 

Sometimes letting go of perfect really is the route towards embracing good.

 

[Mbelle]

Hard times are hard and make other things seem harder still and that is just no fun.

I have been homeschooling for 12 years now and I think I do remember some people being a bit narrow focused on living a certain lifestyle and life style choices when we first began homeschooling.  I remember being shocked at one lady in our homeschool group and her outlandish comments about the govt schools etc..   I was worried at first it was cultish and then I noticed it was just that lady and everyone else did their own thing.

I prefer to homeschool my little ones through elementary all by myself with just social outings.  We began to outsource slowly in middle school and then my older two went to hybrid school for high school 2 days a week and did about 75% of their classes there.  That worked for us very beautifully.  I do however see valid reasons to go to full time school or full time homeschool depending on the situation, abilities, skills, finances and values of each family.  Things can change and then they can change back or again. 

[Shoeless]

OP, I think that you should do what is right for your family, and anyone that says you aren't doing things the "right" way can go pound sand. At some point, I will outsource math, because my son's math skills will surpass mine. He understands math intuitively, in a way that I do not. I also plan to outsource some writing instruction when we get closer to college.  

I am not a great teacher, but I am really good at finding appropriate resources for my son, and asking for help from more talented people than myself. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I’m sorry that you’re struggling but I think that you are grossly stereotyping here. 

Each of us make decisions for our own families with our unique children. Some of us do have kids who would not be well served by private or public schools. I say this as someone who has taught in both settings. 

And just because not all parents can teach every subject doesn’t mean that no parents can teach all subjects.  That’s a serious logical flaw there. I don’t care what anyone outsources or flexs on but I don’t want to be judged as a cult member for wanting to teach my own kids and being good at it. 

[aaplank]

When I first started homeschooling, the group that we were apart of was deeply entrenched in this ideology. When I started to realize how destructive it was I began to pull away from the group. I put my kids in a small private school for a year. We were ostracized from the community and lost all the supposed friends we had. 

When we started homeschooling again we had to find a new community, one that didn't have this mindset. I'm glad we were able to remove ourselves from that environment because I think it would have been so toxic for my kids and would have warped their view of the world. A close friend's son, who grew up in this environment, broke off his engagement because his fiance wasn't sure she wanted to homeschool their future children. 

I understand your venting, OP. It's hard for others to understand if they've never experienced a homeschooling subculture like this. 

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

And just because not all parents can teach every subject doesn’t mean that no parents can teach all subjects.  That’s a serious logical flaw there. I don’t care what anyone outsources or flexs on but I don’t want to be judged as a cult member for wanting to teach my own kids and being good at it. 

Yes!! These are my thoughts exactly. 

Additionally, my kids' educations, social lives, futures are not being harmed bc I am their primary teacher and they do their subjects at home with me through to high school graduation.  That is an equally damaging stereotyped mindset.

[73349]

Some people are like that about any life choice they make (diet being another notable one)--they become Bearers of the Purity Flag, who police one another for adherence... and all others are beneath them. You might need to find some new folks to talk to.

Our kids deserve whatever is the best education we can give them.

[annegables]

Where I live, I think some of this is a reaction to the observation that it seems like the local school system tends to grind kids up and spit them out. And many are aware of it. Far too many kids emerge without an important part of them intact, whether it be their moorings, mental health, physical health, etc. Many of them have either gotten a sub-par education by anyone's standards or have received so competitive an education that it is crushing. Families are being pulled apart at the seams as the children spend upwards of 10hours a day with almost exclusively their peer group. Kids are being exposed to harmful things at far too young an age (peer pressure, p*rn, bullying, etc). 

And many of my friends feel stuck in this situation; a sense of fatalism abounds. "Well, this is just the way things are. Of course my 5th grader is going to get exposed to all of the awfulness on the internet because of unlimited data and busses/lunch/et." "Of course my kid will emerge from high school not sharing my values." I am not saying that homeschooling is a panacea for all of this, but at least some of us can have a sliver of hope. In the course of human history, it is a very recent concept that parents and a close community are not the primary transmitters of values to their children. 

I am all for "do what works best for your family", but I think the canary in the coal mine is that the bolded above is broken.

[shinyhappypeople]

So... just to clarify.  I'm not anti-homeschooling.  And this forum is not representative of the mindset I'm talking about at all, which is why it's safer to rant about it here than on one of the many homeschool fb groups I belong to.  If you want to meet some true believers join a homeschooling group on fb.  The mindless, thoughtless encouragement for homeschooling in train wreck situations is prolific. 

I think some parents can homeschool very well, either through natural teaching ability or outsourcing or whatever.  Some parents (me) feel forced to give it their all and hope for the best because of circumstances outside of their control. When I talk about the Homeschooling Cult it's the rigid mindset that homeschooling is the end-all, be-all and anything less is a sort of failure.   It's a real thing.  I'm arguing against my own (mostly unconscious) adherence to this mindset, fed by certain authors and speakers that I really admire even still (based on her latest book, I'm excluding SWB).  Meanwhile curriculum providers can give false assurances that of course anyone can teach XYZ subject.  Just use their product.  

I want to see myself as an independent thinker.  In many ways I am.  But with this issue, I haven't been. Weirdly enough, I wasn't (and still am not) concerned about how other people educate their kids.  Different strokes, and all that.  But for me... entertaining the idea of dramatically changing course left me feeling like I was failing because I bought into the messaging that, particularly as a Christian, homeschooling is the holy grail of education.  Christian school was a reasonable alternative, but never affordable for us.  Public school is awful always.

And now here I am considering a p/t public high school and it's rocking my worldview.  I do have choices.  And  unless the authors/speakers are going to come into my home and teach my kids, then perhaps they need to just can it.

On the other hand, we may end up continuing with homeschooling (with tweaking).

Who knows.  We have choices.  Each has its pros and cons.  None of them makes me a failure as a mom.  When something isn't working, good moms pivot, right?  

Edited January 29, 2020 by shinyhappypeople

[8filltheheart]

6 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

 

And now here I am considering a p/t public high school and it's rocking my worldview.  I do have choices.  And  unless the authors/speakers are going to come into my home and teach my kids, then perhaps they need to just can it.

 

Who knows.  We have choices.  Each has its pros and cons.  None of them makes me a failure as a mom.  When something isn't working, good moms pivot, right?  

I personally read the bolded as taking someone else's stated opinion and then taking it personally.  Do you really believe that other POV contrary to your own need to be "canned"?  That the only authors/speakers whose views validate your own have a right to voice their POV?    

You have every right to disagree with them and disconnect yourself from their POV.  But, no author or speaker is actually controlling your choices.

[shinyhappypeople]

7 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I personally read the bolded as taking someone else's stated opinion and then taking it personally.  Do you really believe that other POV contrary to your own need to be "canned"?  That the only authors/speakers whose views validate your own have a right to voice their POV?    

You have every right to disagree with them and disconnect yourself from their POV.  But, no author or speaker is actually controlling your choices.

I feel like you're taking what I say literally when I'm speaking in hyperbole.  Which is actually weirdly relevant to the discussion.  I took what certain authors and speakers said/wrote literally when perhaps they were intentionally overstating their case to make a point.  Either way, I think the people I have in mind have a lot to offer and I don't literally want any of them to stop speaking/writing.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can take advice books - whether it's on how to parent, or homeschool or have a healthy marriage etc. as a "cookbook" where you unthinkingly follow the recipe down to the last detail, or you can take it just as advice where you apply what works best for you, pull "ingredients" from other helpful books, add in some of  your own creativity etc. to make what really works best for you and your family.  Just as your signature implies, you won't always get it right the first time.  Partly because you don't always know if a curriculum or approach works until you try it and partly because our kids change.  What works wonderfully for my kids in 2nd grade will not work at all when they are in 9th!  People who have written books are just writing down what worked for them.  They are not wrong for having found something that works but of course it doesn't guarantee that it will work for anyone else. 

People try to push "what works for them" in all sorts of settings.  Those who have their kids exclusively in co-ops push co-ops on me all the time.  Those who unschool push unschooling.  Those who are in X Public School district push X Public School district. 

[8filltheheart]

1 hour ago, annegables said:

Where I live, I think some of this is a reaction to the observation that it seems like the local school system tends to grind kids up and spit them out. And many are aware of it. Far too many kids emerge without an important part of them intact, whether it be their moorings, mental health, physical health, etc. Many of them have either gotten a sub-par education by anyone's standards or have received so competitive an education that it is crushing. Families are being pulled apart at the seams as the children spend upwards of 10hours a day with almost exclusively their peer group. Kids are being exposed to harmful things at far too young an age (peer pressure, p*rn, bullying, etc). 

And many of my friends feel stuck in this situation; a sense of fatalism abounds. "Well, this is just the way things are. Of course my 5th grader is going to get exposed to all of the awfulness on the internet because of unlimited data and busses/lunch/et." "Of course my kid will emerge from high school not sharing my values." I am not saying that homeschooling is a panacea for all of this, but at least some of us can have a sliver of hope. In the course of human history, it is a very recent concept that parents and a close community are not the primary transmitters of values to their children. 

I am all for "do what works best for your family", but I think the canary in the coal mine is that the bolded above is broken.

Your post taken in combination with the recent survey where "Nearly half (46%) of surveyed parents said they only talk to their kids for a maximum of four hours each week" makes for a pitiful commentary on modern society's values/directions. Intentional parenting and intentional homeschooling.......just saying in the context of this thread that those 2 can go a long way.

[maize]

1 hour ago, shinyhappypeople said:

When something isn't working, good moms pivot, right?  

Yep.

Pivot, tweak, seek help from others... sometimes reconsider expectations.

Even SWB said in one of her videos that one of her sons might have been better off in school.

Maybe sit down and consider ALL the options available to you. I don't know what those are because I don't know your particular circumstances or concerns. Every year I put significant time into researching options and opportunities for my kids--this includes researching homeschooling curricula, methods, co-ops, etc. but it also includes researching educational opportunities offered by my local community. I don't end up choosing 90+% of what I research, but I try to give every legitimate option due consideration. And often we have tried something and found it was not a good fit so we moved on. 

There's a new charter school opening in my town next year; I'm planning to go to one of their info sessions even though it is highly unlikely I will be enrolling any of my kids because I like to know as much about local options as possible. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

When some of those authors are saying, "You can teach your child XYZ subject yourself, and here's how," they actually do have an audience. They do not need to can it. They're talking to me. I gratefully bought their books, studied them, and then successfully taught my children and a few tutored students. If we're telling people to can their expert opinions, let's not start with the academics and booksellers. Maybe we could start with MLM's or religious parenting gurus?

The onus is on the target of any pitch, in this world, to determine whether she needs or wants a product. We have to self-evaluate and know whether the promises made are intended for us, or for someone else. There's not a salesman in the world who would be able to make me think that I am at all capable of learning, or teaching, astrophysics or biomedical engineering. I would know that their curriculum is for someone else. But if they're hawking classic ed theory for high school, a curriculum for traditional logic or Aristotle's rhetoric, or algebra or geometry or biology or how to write research papers...I actually know that I can use that. I can't WRITE that material for myself, but I can very adeptly learn it and teach it, so they'd better not can it.

Don't go from the frying pan to the fire, OP. There's middle ground between the devil and the deep blue sea. You can reject the homeschool koolaid without choosing the line of thought that education belongs to experts in schools. If you can't or don't want to do a certain subject or level of homeschooling, don't begrudge, doubt, or *work toward restrictions for* those of us who CAN and DO.

Either extreme is a problem, mostly because those extremes are about trying to make judgments and decisions for other people's families - for children and students that you don't even know. The solution to the extremes is to keep your eyes on your own plate, so to speak. Do what's best for your family, without extrapolating out to thinking that your pivots and compromises are probably what everybody else should consider, too. 

Having the courage of our convictions is a personal stance. 

[goldenecho]

As someone who's kids started in public school, who always had some of her children in public school, and who now has all her children back in public school but is still passionate about their education and heavily involved in it....AMEN!   Thank you! 

While I absolutely value homeschooling and the homeschooling community, some of the things I've heard and read things from homeschoolers about public schoolers have made my blood boil.  Granted, I'd say most homeschoolers support other parents in however they choose to educate their children (with the exception of course of complete educational neglect).    But I have some friends who seriously think you're abusing your child by sending them to public school (we stay friends by not talking about it, and by me ignoring a lot of their posts on facebook).  

And it really bugs me when I see people telling others to keep homeschooling, often with a hefty helping of guilt trip,  when they are clearly miserable homeschooling and have been trying and failing at it for quite a while, or where they have extreme circumstances that make homeschooling extremely hard (death of a spouse, extreme financial burdens, dealing with serious illness, etc.) .     Not that in some cases a person shouldn't continue homeschooling in spite of difficult circumstances...but it seems like some think nothing excuses sending your child to public school. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by goldenecho

[8filltheheart]

5 hours ago, square_25 said:

I've absolutely seen this attitude, and not in Christian circles, either. (I'm a secular homeschooler, so I mostly hang out with more of the same.) It's the "yes, I don't know any math, but at least they are not in school!" attitude. I have kids from homes like this in my math classes... and I have to say, I am not seeing the advantages of being taught by someone who doesn't know any math. It's true that they might have been just as badly served by school, but then again, they may not have. At least they may have come in contact with teachers enthusiastic about their subjects at SOME POINT in their school career. I certainly did, and so did my husband, despite school not being a particularly positive experience for either of us.  

It's not everyone by any stretch of the imagination --- there are absolutely lots of people who are flex-schooling. On the other hand, I've spoken to more than one teen who wishes they'd gone to high school and didn't, because their parents were so set against schooling (without much in the way of a positive vision for what they'd provide instead.) 

I have a niece who has been teaching in ps for almost 20 yrs.  Her comments about hsing go something like, "I think you are an exception amg homeschoolers. The kids who have been homeschooled in the past and end up in my classroom are always significantly behind and struggle terribly."  My response to her is the fairly obvious......the kids showing up in her classroom are probably the kids who possibly have something going in their families that caused them to enroll, parents who decided they were not equipped to homeschool, etc.  The kids that aren't showing up in her classroom are more likely to be the kids whose families are in a more stable place or where homeschooling is working well for the family.  What she is seeing a simple self-selection sample.

The first bolded comment may very well be representative of a similar self-selecting sample.  For example, I am not a strong math person.  I can only keep up with my kids through the first 1/2 of algebra 2.  Equally, I am not someone who is going out and seeking any sort of "help" in the local community.  The exception to that would be when Kathy's dd took over the math circle I attempted to start and then Kathy took over it when her dd graduated.  Kathy then went on to work with a couple of my kids for pre-cal.  But, I am definitely not out seeking anyone in the homeschooling community to work with my kids on any subject.  It just isn't happening.  So, my kids, who do happen to be strong math students, wouldn't show up in a class like yours where the mom without a math background has produced kids with strong math skills.

In terms of the purple bolded, in families where parents are homeschooling with intention and really want to homeschool (not families how pull their kids out without a plan, never form a plan, and never actually deliberately teach their kids), are homeschooling parents not excited about any of the subjects they teach?  If so, what a drudge for everyone, parent and students alike.  But, if the premise is that a teacher has to be knowledgeable about a subject in order to have enthusiasm for it, that is a false assumption.  I get excited about all sorts of subjects that I don't understand.  We wade in together and learn what we can.  My kids happen to be way smarter than I am, so they often keep on going into the deep end and talk to me across the length of the pool where I am still wading in the shallows.  They explain things to me and we have all sorts of fabulous conversations.  Skeptics don't believe that leads to high levels of learning.  Our outcomes beg to differ. 

In terms of the last bolded, teens wish for all sorts of things that they have never experienced.  The student could have gone to school and begged to come back home.  And, as OKBud pointed out, parents often send their kids to school without any thought about what they are doing/experiencing there.  Kids who are miserable in school often have no other recourse other than to stay in school and suffer through it.

All that to say, ancedotes abound.  Homeschooling is not a panacea.  It is not for everyone.  Not all students are well-served by homeschooling.  (I personally know several kids that fall into that category.)  But, equally, homeschooling is completely family dependent.  Every homeschool is unique, so generalized statements about "homeschooling" are going to fall flat b/c there are way too many variables to make blanket definitive statements.

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[Soror]

5 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

So... just to clarify.  I'm not anti-homeschooling.  And this forum is not representative of the mindset I'm talking about at all, which is why it's safer to rant about it here than on one of the many homeschool fb groups I belong to.  If you want to meet some true believers join a homeschooling group on fb.  The mindless, thoughtless encouragement for homeschooling in train wreck situations is prolific. 

I think some parents can homeschool very well, either through natural teaching ability or outsourcing or whatever.  Some parents (me) feel forced to give it their all and hope for the best because of circumstances outside of their control. When I talk about the Homeschooling Cult it's the rigid mindset that homeschooling is the end-all, be-all and anything less is a sort of failure.   It's a real thing.  I'm arguing against my own (mostly unconscious) adherence to this mindset, fed by certain authors and speakers that I really admire even still (based on her latest book, I'm excluding SWB).  Meanwhile curriculum providers can give false assurances that of course anyone can teach XYZ subject.  Just use their product.  

I want to see myself as an independent thinker.  In many ways I am.  But with this issue, I haven't been. Weirdly enough, I wasn't (and still am not) concerned about how other people educate their kids.  Different strokes, and all that.  But for me... entertaining the idea of dramatically changing course left me feeling like I was failing because I bought into the messaging that, particularly as a Christian, homeschooling is the holy grail of education.  Christian school was a reasonable alternative, but never affordable for us.  Public school is awful always.

And now here I am considering a p/t public high school and it's rocking my worldview.  I do have choices.  And  unless the authors/speakers are going to come into my home and teach my kids, then perhaps they need to just can it.

On the other hand, we may end up continuing with homeschooling (with tweaking).

Who knows.  We have choices.  Each has its pros and cons.  None of them makes me a failure as a mom.  When something isn't working, good moms pivot, right?  

I think I understand. My always hs'd son went to school last year for 8th, it rocked my world and I really had to examine my own thoughts about it all to reconcile my beliefs with my actions. Gosh, it was painful, very painful. And there was certainly judgement from some. A very dear friend, that I've known since before I even started hs'ing made some offhand comment about how she wasn't one that just planned to send her kids to school like I did. That was a knife to the heart, how could she think that? I *planned* to school all of mine all the way through. But, plans are just that. I see people all the time going on like hs is always better than ps. That whatever they are doing at home is better, knowing with what they are doing they are either being willfully blind or really biased about what they are actually doing. I also see many outright dismiss the social aspect as a nothing, even for older kids.

 In a bigger area with more opportunities it would probably be different but that is not where I live. Just last week dd1 told me she wanted to go to PS next year, because of the social aspect. And honestly, I'm at peace. I know now that there are pros and cons to absolutely every decision. I know with where we live there are limited EC activities available for hs'ers and we've either tried them or she is not interested in them. I know I have gave it my absolute all over the years to build our local community with limited success and have no more energy or ideas, I cannot do it on my own.  I know that the education will not be exactly what I would give them but I gave (and continue to give the younger ones) the best foundation I can, there undoubtedly have been holes in our hs education and there will be in PS. 

Sometimes the HS community can be so focused on the pros of hs'ing that it fails to adequately address the cons. It leaves those of us who have to leave hs'ing or keep a foot in both worlds very little support sometimes, and sometimes outright hostility. I absolutely have loved these years hs'ing my kids, it has been the best thing I have ever done, but I will not force a teenager to stay home against their will. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by soror

[Lang Syne Boardie]

19 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Almost certainly! I'm absolutely convinced homeschooling CAN be the right choice, or we wouldn't be doing it. But I'm also convinced that it's not for everyone, and that includes some people who are, in fact, homeschooling their kids. 

Are you also convinced that some public school settings are not for everyone, and that includes some children who are, in fact, enrolled in public school?

[Guest]

What I've noticed is that ex-homeschoolers who send all of their kids to school are often equally dogmatic about school as they were about homeschooling. 

 

I can think of very few people who I have worked with (and I usually get the kids who have parents who feel they have failed at homeschooling X, and in some cases outsourcing X as well) where I felt that the kid would be better off in school full time, end of statement. Going to school long enough to get a label, IEP, and qualify for services or an IEA to pay for services outside the school, yeah-but I haven't seen many parents with 100% NT kids who would be just fine in school who weren't doing enough at home to at least be a reasonable education, even if their priorities weren't mine-and usually the kids were probably at least as happy and safe, too. 

 

I have known families who, for a chapter in their lives, really needed full day child care and somewhere consistent for the kids to go-but that wasn't a failure of homeschooling as much as life changes. The fact is, it's hard to be a school kid who has parents divorcing, medical issues, etc, too. The homeschooling isn't the problem here. It's just that there are only 24 hours in a day and parents who formerly were able to homeschool and run a household  full time can't homeschool full time, run a househoos and do something else full time, too. And I PRAY no one makes such a parent feel like a failure for not homeschooling. 

 

FWIW, one of my friends beat herself up trying to afford Christian schools for years. She finally gave in and let her DD go to the public school. She quickly discovered that it wasn't nearly as bad as she had been led to believe by her church, and that, in fact, her daughter did better socially, emotionally, academically, and spiritually at the public school-in part because she had a mom who wasn't burning the candle at both ends to be able to afford private school. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Just now, square_25 said:

 

I'm pretty much a misanthrope -- I'm grumpy about all sorts of things. 

Oh, same. LOL

[Sneezyone]

Anecdotes abound. That is a given. My situation is but one. I neither lacked a plan while homeschooling nor failed to think I was (in fact or in practice) incapable of teaching my children at home. Still, my plans were meaningless in the face of kids who needed different things. For one child, that was social interaction, for the other, it was peer-pressure (the positive kind). My heart practically burst when my DSs teacher declared at his PTS conference...”Please send me more students like this. You did a great job!” I’m still a SAH parent. I still carpool, attend all the events, and cater the team meals, etc. I STILL know my kids and their strengths, weaknesses, and needs. IMO, dogma should always yield to reality. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Sneezyone

[sweet2ndchance]

6 hours ago, square_25 said:

I've absolutely seen this attitude, and not in Christian circles, either. (I'm a secular homeschooler, so I mostly hang out with more of the same.) It's the "yes, I don't know any math, but at least they are not in school!" attitude. I have kids from homes like this in my math classes... and I have to say, I am not seeing the advantages of being taught by someone who doesn't know any math. It's true that they might have been just as badly served by school, but then again, they may not have. At least they may have come in contact with teachers enthusiastic about their subjects at SOME POINT in their school career. I certainly did, and so did my husband, despite school not being a particularly positive experience for either of us.  

It's not everyone by any stretch of the imagination --- there are absolutely lots of people who are flex-schooling. On the other hand, I've spoken to more than one teen who wishes they'd gone to high school and didn't, because their parents were so set against schooling (without much in the way of a positive vision for what they'd provide instead.) 

The first bolded statement: I can only think of a few teachers in twenty or so years of public education in multiple U.S. states that were actually enthusiastic and passionate about their subject that made any measurable impact on my education. I am/was (it's complicated) extremely passionate about music and band in particular when I was younger. I played the flute and piccolo and dabbled in other instruments. Even though I was enthusiastic and passionate about the flute, I know that I positively suck at teaching music, teaching others to play an instrument in particular. I've tried to teach or tutor the flute and I'm just not very good at it. I'm great at teaching lots of other things but one of the things that I am most passionate and enthusiastic about, I just lack the... ummmm... normal student experience I guess?... to understand how to relate to a beginning student or even an intermediate or advanced student looking to improve their performance. I've tried to learn how to be a better music teacher but it is just not something I'm good at and I accept it. I delegate the role of teaching my kids to play instruments, even my daughter who wanted to play the flute, to other people who are better able to help them. An enthusiastic and passionate teacher does not guarantee a good experience.

The second bolded statement: I don't find teens to be good sources of reliable opinions. Sure, there are kids (teens are still very much kids) who are correct in their assessment of their education but I wouldn't take a teenagers opinion to the bank on much of anything, much less parenting decisions. They are still young and lack life experience to see things from another's point of view sometimes. It is common for teens to think that their parents had it all wrong and everything would have been better if things had been done their way. It is equally as common for many of those same teens to come back years or even decades later, when they have more life experience, and say, "Hey you know what, maybe my parents weren't so wrong about everything after all." I absolutely agree that there are teens out there who would have been much better served in even a mediocre public school than a half-hearted homeschool from a parent who either cannot or will not pull it together to provide at least a bare minimum GED prep class. But I would not take a teen's word for it. I would need more evidence before I could make any sort of determination on their individual experience much less blanket assumptions about anything as a whole.

[sweet2ndchance]

I 100% admit that if I had it all to do over again with the knowledge I have now , I would not have homeschooled my oldest dd. She absolutely thrived in public school once she was enrolled in 5th grade. She would never have reached her full potential if I had homeschooled her through graduation. It has nothing to do with my ability to teach or her ability to learn. If dd had butted heads with a teacher the way she and I would butt heads sometimes, I would have absolutely asked for dd to be put in a different class. Sometimes, personalities just clash. Even between teacher and student or parent and child. Dd and got along so much better when she was in school, which is a statement I would have never imagined I would ever say about one of my kids but it is true. I was always worried about her, because she was such a social butterfly and a people pleaser, that she would inevitably fall in with the "wrong crowd". But she actually has a pretty good sense of right and wrong and made great decisions about social things when she was in public school. And she actually came to me for advice when she needed it, something she never would have done when we were constantly butting heads. 

When you are going though a rough patch in life, it can be really really hard to see things clearly and impartially. I am honestly neither pro-homeschooling nor am I pro-public/private school. I am pro-"do what is best for your child when they need you to do what is best for them". That can mean different things at different times for the same kid and it can mean different things for each individual kid. Since no two kids are alike, even siblings, there are no universal rules. That is what makes raising kids so hard. There are no hard fast rules or instruction manuals. My 6th and youngest child still throws me for a loop some days and teaches me new things about parenting and homeschooling. It is a good thing that I view learning as a lifelong process and never let my education stand in the way of my desire to learn.

[Jean in Newcastle]

9 hours ago, kathyintx said:

I actually quit recommending hs'ing to people back in the early 90's (yearh I suppose I'm one of the "aging and dated"  lol).  And when I was asked about hs'ing, I ALWAYS included a statement along the lines of 'Hs'ing is definitely not for everyone.'  Because it truly isn't for everyone.  But it does seem like it would be good to point out ALL the possibe ways to homeschool on a hs'ing board, IMO.  And just staying home and hs'ing is ONE of those possibilities.

I don’t recommend homeschooling to people anymore either. Not because I think that homeschooling is wrong or ineffective- I think that it can be very effective.  But a system of schooling  which by its very nature has the “buck stopping “ with the homeschooling parent needs people who have done their homework. It needs people who have standards for determining what “works” and what doesn’t that aren’t simply whether it is easy or convenient.  It needs people who have their eye on all the needs of the children including socializing and extras and mental health. No, homeschooling isn’t for everyone but often that’s because the parents aren’t approaching it with the same diligence that hopefully they would demand from a paid teacher- not necessarily because the kids wouldn’t benefit from knowledgeable dedicated homeschooling parents. 

[sweet2ndchance]

44 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Amen to that. And it's such a hard perspective... it's so easy to get stuck on "my way or the highway." I notice myself become defensive and territorial about philosophies I've adopted (homeschooling, babywearing, etc.) And then that makes it harder to later deviate from the chosen path... 

Homeschooling and parenting, for me, are so intertwined that it is hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. I've found the older I get and the more of my kids that become adults, the less I need the approval of others to be confident and comfortable in my parenting choices for my children. The more confident and comfortable I am in my parenting choices, the less defensive I am about my convictions and the more open I am to understanding the experiences of others who chose differently than me.

I always swore I would never be "that parent" who let their child have a pacifier past a year old. My youngest cured me of that conviction, not because he is the youngest and spoiled but because he had an actual need for a pacifier that I did not know was even a thing when my oldest was born and I decided I was anti-pacifier past infancy. I am also most definitely not the same homeschool mom I was 20 years ago when I was just getting started with homeschooling a preschooler for the first time. I have had to eat some humble pie a few times for being young, inexperienced and headstrong in my lifetime. But if my children remember nothing else about how I raised them, I want them to remember that I was never too proud to apologize to them or others when I was wrong or just lacked the parenting or life experience to make a better decision than I did at the time.

[maize]

3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

 It's just that there are only 24 hours in a day 

This is what I am constantly up against.

I have been, in practical terms, a solo parent for most of my marriage--kind of like having a spouse permanently deployed, except with the extra strain of that spouse not actually being deployed but needing lots of extra support to stay moderately functional enough to hold down a job. Just meeting his needs could easily be a full time job for me.

I'm beyond stretched thin trying to manage the needs of seven children on top of that.

That said, most of my school-aged children were in school last year and I was more burned out from that year than I ever have been while homeschooling! High needs kids remain high needs in school--I was coordinating three IEP's, communicating with education teams, helping kids cope with higher anxiety levels, getting them up and fed and ready in the morning, doing a crazy amount of driving, and helping navigate homework in the evenings when everyone was tired. There were good things--my now twelve year old had an exceptionally supportive teacher who I remain profoundly grateful for, and established a couple of friendships that have remained active after she came back home.  There was no way she could have continued in school for another year though--I had to bring her back home to focus on her mental health. The way my homeschool runs is far from optimum but I'm giving my kids the best I have to give.

I'm not in a situation where I can afford to be dogmatic about anything; I have to be practical in addressing the realities of my situation. Other people have different realities so their options and choices will be different.

Edited January 30, 2020 by maize

[Momto6inIN]

2 hours ago, square_25 said:

 

Amen to that. And it's such a hard perspective... it's so easy to get stuck on "my way or the highway." I notice myself become defensive and territorial about philosophies I've adopted (homeschooling, babywearing, etc.) And then that makes it harder to later deviate from the chosen path... 

 

1 hour ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Homeschooling and parenting, for me, are so intertwined that it is hard to tell where one ends and the other begins. I've found the older I get and the more of my kids that become adults, the less I need the approval of others to be confident and comfortable in my parenting choices for my children. The more confident and comfortable I am in my parenting choices, the less defensive I am about my convictions and the more open I am to understanding the experiences of others who chose differently than me.

I always swore I would never be "that parent" who let their child have a pacifier past a year old. My youngest cured me of that conviction, not because he is the youngest and spoiled but because he had an actual need for a pacifier that I did not know was even a thing when my oldest was born and I decided I was anti-pacifier past infancy. I am also most definitely not the same homeschool mom I was 20 years ago when I was just getting started with homeschooling a preschooler for the first time. I have had to eat some humble pie a few times for being young, inexperienced and headstrong in my lifetime. But if my children remember nothing else about how I raised them, I want them to remember that I was never too proud to apologize to them or others when I was wrong or just lacked the parenting or life experience to make a better decision than I did at the time.

My kids have heard me say many, many times that I have learned never to say "never". I've had to eat my headstrong opinions waaaaaay too many times.

[Denise in IN]

10 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Each has its pros and cons.  None of them makes me a failure as a mom.  When something isn't working, good moms pivot, right?  

These are some really key thoughts.  I think it's important to recognize, especially with teens, that every educational choice has trade-offs.  You decide for your family which direction has the best mix for your family.  Also, (should I whisper this???)  education is not the sum total of our parenting and our family's lives!  Who you are as a mom, who you are as a family, and how you parent your children is not just about how/where you choose to educate.  Education is one part of the whole, and it does NOT determine everything!

The ability to pivot, to adjust to what your children and family need is a great gift you can give to yourself and your children.  

[Soror]

13 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Anecdotes abound. That is a given. My situation is but one. I neither lacked a plan while homeschooling nor failed to think I was (in fact or in practice) incapable of teaching my children at home. Still, my plans were meaningless in the face of kids who needed different things. For one child, that was social interaction, for the other, it was peer-pressure (the positive kind). My heart practically burst when my DSs teacher declared at his PTS conference...”Please send me more students like this. You did a great job!” I’m still a SAH parent. I still carpool, attend all the events, and cater the team meals, etc. I STILL know my kids and their strengths, weaknesses, and needs. IMO, dogma should always yield to reality. 

Ugh, yes, I have heard comments to the effect that those that quit hs'ing didn't try hard enough or plan enough etc. I was beyond excited to school ds all the way through highschool, I started researching years prior, and when he told me he wanted to go the next year already had started my plan for the next year. Throughout his schooling I busted hump to meet him where he was and although I was not perfect I am proud of the education I gave him and have no doubts that I could have provided him a solid education through highschool. I also know that I have put more time and effort into establishing a hs community locally than any other current hs moms and it wasn't enough for him socially.  He did extra curriculars but they weren't enough. He has a lovely friend group now, good kids, and has solid educational classes. There are pros and cons but the pros of PS have been far and away worth it for him. I don't know what the future holds for dd1 and know enough not to guess, if PS doesn't work out the way she thinks I will happily welcome her home.

[8filltheheart]

I'm amazed at the number of people who have outsiders commenting on their personal parenting decisions. I can't imagine making a comment about a friend's decision to put their kids in school beyond maybe how much my kids hope it wont impact their friendships (a real concern for kids when their friends go to school. Lots of our kids' friends have gone to high school.)

Are people responding more like..... I hope it works well for your family even though it is not a path I would choose for my family. ??? I can see some people making that kind of comment as a blunt, but honest, reaction. Or are they coming right out and telling you that you are making a "whatever their determination is" decision? Bc, if so, yikes!! I am so sorry you have friends who want to control you vs being supportive friends.

[alewife]

16 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I'm amazed at the number of people who have outsiders commenting on their personal parenting decisions. I can't imagine making a comment about a friend's decision to put their kids in school beyond maybe how much my kids hope it wont impact their friendships (a real concern for kids when their friends go to school. Lots of our kids' friends have gone to high school.)

Are people responding more like..... I hope it works well for your family even though it is not a path I would choose for my family. ??? I can see some people making that kind of comment as a blunt, but honest, reaction. Or are they coming right out and telling you that you are making a "whatever their determination is" decision? Bc, if so, yikes!! I am so sorry you have friends who want to control you vs being supportive friends.

I have had multiple individuals over the years tell us that we were "ruining our kids lives" by homeschooling them.  I also had an individual ask me when I was going to put my kids in school and get a job.  

Now that I am finished homeschooling my kids, I have had a few of these individuals apologize, but their past attitudes have definitely negatively affected my relationships with them.

[8filltheheart]

12 minutes ago, alewife said:

I have had multiple individuals over the years tell us that we were "ruining our kids lives" by homeschooling them.  I also had an individual ask me when I was going to put my kids in school and get a job.  

Now that I am finished homeschooling my kids, I have had a few of these individuals apologize, but their past attitudes have definitely negatively affected my relationships with them.

I have had family members make comments like that, but not friends.  (I chalk it up to I didnt get to choose my family members, but I do choose my friends. The whole "with friends like that...."  My family, even with our adult kids, is still a bunch of opinionated individuals. 😞 )

If they aren't friends and just acquaintances or strangers making comments, I just ignore them bc I couldn't give a flip.

Edited January 30, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart

[alewife]

23 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have had family members make comments like that, but not friends.  (I chalk it up to I didnt get to choose my family members, but I do choose my friends. The whole "with friends like that...."  My family, even with our adult kids, is still a bunch of opinionated individuals. 😞 )

If they aren't friends and just acquaintances or strangers making comments, I just ignore them bc I couldn't give a flip.

Yeah, these were all extended family members with the exception of one.  

[maize]

22 minutes ago, alewife said:

Yeah, these were all extended family members with the exception of one.  

So helpful aren't they? It's as if they think that because a child is related to them they have special insight and responsibility to tell the parents what is needed, even if they barely know the child.

Most of my relatives are actually great and not inclined to interfere, but there is that handful. One of mine who had been a classroom teacher once told me all about how my kids should be in school so they could get speech therapy, and told stories of kids she had taught whose speech articulation difficulties had resolved with just a few sessions of therapy. I finally told her it was nice when things resolved so easily--my kids had been in speech therapy for years, both through the school district and private; sometimes difficulties persist in spite of professional help.

She of course still thought my kids should be in school; I'm not sure why she thought she could know anything at all about what was best for my kids since she barely knew the kids themselves and clearly did not know what they struggled with or what support and services they had access to.

I did have a friend once tell me she thought speech therapy was unnecessary; she just made sure to correct any miss-pronunciations when her child was young and his speech turned out fine. She clearly thought that if other parents did what she did their children would not struggle.

Speech difficulties are a publicly obvious thing so they seem to invite comment.

Edited January 30, 2020 by maize

[sweet2ndchance]

We have heard all the speech therapy comments too. Including that we needed to put him in preschool so he got more practice with spontaneous speech. So we did, not just because the SLP reccomended it but we did do it all the same. It was an unmitigated disaster. When we brought him home, he actually made more progress in spontaneous speech and the SLP noticed it as well. Luckily, she homeschools her daughter as well so she was supportive. I think the comments that irritate me the most are well meaning strangers who tell me about the kids they knew who had, what they perceived to be, the same problem as ds and how it only took a few sessions of speech therapy to "fix the problem". Ds has been in speech therapy for more than 75% of his young life and his current speech and articulation ARE an improvement from where he started. He has a neurological difference that makes speaking at all difficult for him. Invisible disabilities can be so hard sometimes. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have had family members make comments like that, but not friends.  (I chalk it up to I didnt get to choose my family members, but I do choose my friends. The whole "with friends like that...."  My family, even with our adult kids, is still a bunch of opinionated individuals. 😞 )

If they aren't friends and just acquaintances or strangers making comments, I just ignore them bc I couldn't give a flip.

Me too. 
 

I have friends who are just as dedicated to their kid’s education in public school as I am to my kid’s education in homeschooling. I support them when they hit roadblocks and struggles in PS just as they support me when I hit roadblocks and struggles in homeschooling. I respect their parenting choices as they respect mine. But I gravitate to thoughtful people who are relaxed and confident in their intentional choices. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

On 1/29/2020 at 8:41 AM, kathyintx said:

 

I actually quit recommending hs'ing to people back in the early 90's (yearh I suppose I'm one of the "aging and dated"  lol).           

  

      

When I used that phrase, I hoped it was obvious that I was referring to an ideology (that the only right way to raise children is to homeschool), not to people! 

I began homeschooling in the 90s. I'm aged (although I might perk up, after the youngest graduates) but I've tried to keep learning and keep up, instead of pressuring young families with dated ideas about how to do things. They're in an entirely different world.

If you stopped bossing people around in the early 90s, you are not one of the people pushing an outworn philosophy.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

The last truly dogmatic speaker that I ever heard, in person, was Heidi St. John, at my state hs'ing org's convention. That was several years ago, and also the last convention I attended. Her tone, and the attitude of the attendees, was definitely militant. They were "all in" for the culture war, and evangelical homeschoolers were God's foot soldiers. 

So there seemed to be an appetite for that kind of talk, but since my children and I left the convention early, I never learned who else is pedaling that perspective today.

[8filltheheart]

 I'm trying to remember if I ever recommended homeschooling to someone who didn't actually come to me to ask me questions.  My sister homeschools and I certainly didn't recommend to her! It is a taboo subject between us (for maybe obvious reasons?? 😉 )  I will encourage people who ask.  But, if I actually recommended it to someone who hadn't expressed interest in it before hand, I can't remember.  I firmly do not believe it is an easy decision or for everyone. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The only person I ever brought it up without them asking me first, was a friend who was telling me about her daughter throwing up from the stress of going to public school every single day.  So I brought it up as an option.  She researched it, decided to try it and homeschooled this child and a couple siblings very happily and successfully for a couple of years.  Then mental health needs improved over time and her kids went back to public school happily and successfully. 

I am, however, asked to meet people on occasion to talk to them about homeschooling.  I meet these people, who are strangers to me but who have had me recommended to them as a knowledgeable homeschooler in our area.  Most have done zero reading or researching even online.  I don't mind sharing a basic overview of the laws here, the resources available and the basic approaches including some which are not technically homeschooling by law (online public school or public school at home hybrids).  None of these are people who I would actually recommend homeschooling to and to date, none of have actually followed through to do anything.  I don't think that it is bad that they stay in the public schools - in fact I think that public schools are probably better for people who are not willing to do their own homework and want the experts to do it all for them during school hours.  Do I think that the reasons why they thought of homeschooling in the first place (things like kids falling through the cracks, LDs etc.) were resolved in the public schools?  Probably not.  But I doubt that they would have been resolved in homeschooling if the parent isn't willing to put in some thoughtful legwork beyond meeting someone for coffee for 30 minutes. 

[maize]

I've only attended one major homeschooling conference, back when my oldest was kindergarten age so maybe 2009? It was put on by a state Christian homeschoolers association, and definitely had a "homeschool is the only Godly approach to education" feel. I remember the only really interesting part being the vendor hall since I could actually look through a lot of the curriculum offerings I had only read about.

Voddie Baucham was the keynote speaker at that one, definitely on the extremist side of Christian homeschooling--spank your kids and keep your daughters home.

[Arcadia]

You need people who are supportive of your choices instead of judging. My in-laws are the most condemning while my friends who after school are the most supportive. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Lang Syne Boardie said:

The last truly dogmatic speaker that I ever heard, in person, was Heidi St. John, at my state hs'ing org's convention. That was several years ago, and also the last convention I attended. Her tone, and the attitude of the attendees, was definitely militant. They were "all in" for the culture war, and evangelical homeschoolers were God's foot soldiers. 

So there seemed to be an appetite for that kind of talk, but since my children and I left the convention early, I never learned who else is pedaling that perspective today.

That sort of thing is more indicative of belonging to Christian (or other groups) that are less focused on providing Biblical (or philosophical) principles and instead pressuring people to use the same applications of principles whether the application actually applies or not.  So you can have a principle of providing an education but different applications of how that education might look for different families and individuals.  Quite often this happens in religious groups but it can also happen in groups like Waldorf etc. 

[8filltheheart]

14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That sort of thing is more indicative of belonging to Christian (or other groups) that are less focused on providing Biblical (or philosophical) principles and instead pressuring people to use the same applications of principles whether the application actually applies or not.  So you can have a principle of providing an education but different applications of how that education might look for different families and individuals.  Quite often this happens in religious groups but it can also happen in groups like Waldorf etc. 

I have never encountered that sort of attitude amg any group, but I have been around Catholuc homeschoolers who hold the attitude that if you dont use Seton or another prepackaged Catholic provider, you arent Catholic homeschooling. I just roll my eyes. Whatever. I dont have time for such nonsensical perspectives and dont even give them a second thought.