History on Transcripts

[croslandfamily]

My daughter is in 8th grade, but I'm looking ahead so that we can plan out her high school for college entry.  I have noticed that colleges require World History, US History, Government, and Economics.  I'm not sure how to include that on her transcript if she is doing the high school level history through Well Trained Mind.  

[regentrude]

I have not seen any of the colleges we looked at "require World History, US History, Government, and Economics". They may require a certain number of social sciences and list those as possible options.

My kids had Ancient History, Medieval History, US History in World Context 1500-1800, half a credit US History in World Context 1800-present, half a credit of gov. Nobody questioned that.

[croslandfamily]

That’s great. Is the US history and government listed here through Well Trained Mind? 

[katilac]

We did World History 1-4 and civics. No problems. 

[teachermom2834]

Some colleges in my state require US History but the other social studies are your choice. I have never seen a college specify that applicants need World History or Govt/Econ. 

Most colleges will not specify what social studies are required so you have a lot of freedom both in taking and naming your courses.

[regentrude]

25 minutes ago, croslandfamily said:

That’s great. Is the US history and government listed here through Well Trained Mind? 

No. I made up all my own classes.

[croslandfamily]

13 minutes ago, katilac said:

We did World History 1-4 and civics. No problems. 

What did you put on the transcript?

[croslandfamily]

4 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Some colleges in my state require US History but the other social studies are your choice. I have never seen a college specify that applicants need World History or Govt/Econ. 

Most colleges will not specify what social studies are required so you have a lot of freedom both in taking and naming your courses.

I’m not sure what to do for US history. That’s my main question. 

[katilac]

33 minutes ago, croslandfamily said:

What did you put on the transcript?

 

• World History 1: Ancients
• World History 2: Medieval
• World History 3: Renaissance
• World History 4: Modern
• Civics and Free Enterprise 

My kids definitely applied to colleges that had American history specifically listed as recommended and at least a couple that listed it as required. One admissions office did call and say, hey, I noticed she doesn't have it listed specifically, do you maybe want to amend your transcript to break it out? But, as it happened, it had already been reviewed and and dd had been officially accepted and offered a scholarship, lol. So out of all the applications across two kids, one question that was not an issue. 

dd said at the time that she would refuse to amend it regardless, because she was not going to any school that didn't realize 4 years of world history included, by definition, American history 😄

[croslandfamily]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

• World History 1: Ancients
• World History 2: Medieval
• World History 3: Renaissance
• World History 4: Modern
• Civics and Free Enterprise 

My kids definitely applied to colleges that had American history specifically listed as recommended and at least a couple that listed it as required. One admissions office did call and say, hey, I noticed she doesn't have it listed specifically, do you maybe want to amend your transcript to break it out? But, as it happened, it had already been reviewed and and dd had been officially accepted and offered a scholarship, lol. So out of all the applications across two kids, one question that was not an issue. 

dd said at the time that she would refuse to amend it regardless, because she was not going to any school that didn't realize 4 years of world history included, by definition, American history 😄

That’s great! Thank you for your thoughts. What did she do for civics? 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, croslandfamily said:

That’s great! Thank you for your thoughts. What did she do for civics? 

We did a mix of things. It was an election year, so that was handy.

We had a couple of texts we picked up cheap, just standard issue stuff we could pick and choose from. 

We did quite a bit on iCivics. They have quite a lot of free resources on their site - lesson plans, projects, games - and that's what we used. We quite liked some of the games to help you remember amendments and stuff (you were a lawyer). 

Jefferson's Truths is an interesting book that relates the ideas in the Declaration of Independence to those of the European Enlightenment. It also really delves into the grammar and vocabulary that Jefferson used and why (it's a history/English crossover). It breaks things down so much it can be slow going; this was definitely one we read together with discussion as we went along. Reading on their own would have been a failure, I think, but it was well worth the time we spent together. 

Speeches (placed in context) are a great viewpoint to political movements and eras, and the vast majority of modern ones are on youtube. Even much older ones are often available as reenacted audio - Orson Welles does give me liberty or give me death, lol. 

You can also find video footage of protests, rallies, marches, and riots going back to at least the mid 1960s and continuing to the present. It's actually an amazing time for protests in American and around the world, many of which resonate with young people both because of the issues at hand and because many of the leaders and faces of the movements actually are young people. Sometimes astonishingly young people, which often creates a strong connection. Comparing and contrasting movements, parsing why some take off and others don't, and why at that particular time - it's really interesting stuff, and you could view an entire civics class through this lens. 

The single biggest point I wanted to make in civics is that politics/government/civics - none of these are distant things of no interest to the average person. Policies can mean the difference between people having a chance or people being oppressed. Laws can be just or not. Regulations can place undue burdens on certain people, sometimes even unintentionally. Generally speaking, the people in power (no matter their party) want politics to be viewed as too boring and complicated to truly bother with. Every citizen really is important.  

oh hey, i wrote a novel, enjoy . . . 

 

[katilac]

All that, and I forgot to mention that you can also buy printed materials from iCivics if you choose, lol. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by katilac

[Farrar]

Generally, you need three social studies credits. One should be a US history, one should cover something in world history, and one can be an elective. Students interested in the humanities will likely have more than three credits in social studies by graduation, but STEM or arts focused students might not. You can follow the WTM sequence. You can follow the public school sequence for your area. You can make it all up. It's really up to you.

I know people here say this sometimes, but I've literally never seen a college that required a credit in government or econ. Some states do, yes. And many colleges require a US history and I've seen ones that require a world history. There may be such a college out there... but I'd love for someone to actually mention a specific name, because I've not seen a single, real example of it. Since many states do not have a government, econ, or civics graduation requirement, I suspect that there aren't many colleges that require a specific credit in them.

You can do anything you like, really. Even that "US History" that's so enshrined could be many different course titles...

US History
US History before the Civil War
American Military History
Social Justice in American History
Women in American History
American History through Film

I mean... you can go wild with it. Same for the "world history" requirement that a few places have. It does not have to be a single course called "World History."

[8filltheheart]

28 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 

I know people here say this sometimes, but I've literally never seen a college that required a credit in government or econ. Some states do, yes. And many colleges require a US history and I've seen ones that require a world history. There may be such a college out there... but I'd love for someone to actually mention a specific name, because I've not seen a single, real example of it. Since many states do not have a government, econ, or civics graduation requirement, I suspect that there aren't many colleges that require a specific credit in them.

https://www.sc.edu/about/offices_and_divisions/undergraduate_admissions/requirements/for_freshmen/required_high_school_courses/index.php

Social studies - 3 units

• 1 unit U.S. history
• ½ unit economics
• ½ unit government
• 1 unit world history or geography strongly recommended

[croslandfamily]

33 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Generally, you need three social studies credits. One should be a US history, one should cover something in world history, and one can be an elective. Students interested in the humanities will likely have more than three credits in social studies by graduation, but STEM or arts focused students might not. You can follow the WTM sequence. You can follow the public school sequence for your area. You can make it all up. It's really up to you.

I know people here say this sometimes, but I've literally never seen a college that required a credit in government or econ. Some states do, yes. And many colleges require a US history and I've seen ones that require a world history. There may be such a college out there... but I'd love for someone to actually mention a specific name, because I've not seen a single, real example of it. Since many states do not have a government, econ, or civics graduation requirement, I suspect that there aren't many colleges that require a specific credit in them.

You can do anything you like, really. Even that "US History" that's so enshrined could be many different course titles...

US History
US History before the Civil War
American Military History
Social Justice in American History
Women in American History
American History through Film

I mean... you can go wild with it. Same for the "world history" requirement that a few places have. It does not have to be a single course called "World History."

The college that my daughter is interested in requires World History, US history since 1877, 1/2 credits of each economics and government. 

[kokotg]

5 hours ago, Farrar said:

 

I know people here say this sometimes, but I've literally never seen a college that required a credit in government or econ. Some states do, yes. And many colleges require a US history and I've seen ones that require a world history. There may be such a college out there... but I'd love for someone to actually mention a specific name, because I've not seen a single, real example of it. Since many states do not have a government, econ, or civics graduation requirement, I suspect that there aren't many colleges that require a specific credit in them.

 

We just looked at Columbus State in Georgia the other day, because DS16 is interested in their music school, and they require homeschoolers to fill out a college preparatory credit evaluation form that includes world and US history as well as government and Econ (as well as stuff like British literature and "American English." I was surprised/annoyed to see it, particularly since it's not a particularly selective college academically....DS isn't likely to have any trouble meeting their academic requirements unless they somehow determine that we neglected to teach him American English. 

[Farrar]

31 minutes ago, kokotg said:

We just looked at Columbus State in Georgia the other day, because DS16 is interested in their music school, and they require homeschoolers to fill out a college preparatory credit evaluation form that includes world and US history as well as government and Econ (as well as stuff like British literature and "American English." I was surprised/annoyed to see it, particularly since it's not a particularly selective college academically....DS isn't likely to have any trouble meeting their academic requirements unless they somehow determine that we neglected to teach him American English. 

Georgia public colleges definitely fall into my "fussy" when it comes to homeschoolers category. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:12 PM, croslandfamily said:

The college that my daughter is interested in requires World History, US history since 1877, 1/2 credits of each economics and government. 

 

Could you share the name of the college? It's always good to see the variety of admissions requirements.

[cintinative]

bump. Same question as Sebastian. 

It seems like it is assumed here that we must take government and econ but I haven't been successful in finding a school that requires it yet. 

[Chris in VA]

If you do WTM history, SWB does suggest some easy resources to add in .5 semester of Econ and Gov't. Whatever Happened to Penny Candy and The Idiot's Guide to Am Government I think are the reqs. It isn't that these would each make up a full year taken together, but combined with the history, where principles of both are covered with primary source/Great Books, you can add in a half year credit for both and fill those picky requirements.  We used the Idiots Guide and just lightly discussed. I donxt think I even reqired my son to write anything--he was already using primary sources and GBs and that was plenty. You do what ya gotta when trying to fit into the little boxes...

[Sebastian (a lady)]

On 11/24/2019 at 5:59 PM, kokotg said:

We just looked at Columbus State in Georgia the other day, because DS16 is interested in their music school, and they require homeschoolers to fill out a college preparatory credit evaluation form that includes world and US history as well as government and Econ (as well as stuff like British literature and "American English." I was surprised/annoyed to see it, particularly since it's not a particularly selective college academically....DS isn't likely to have any trouble meeting their academic requirements unless they somehow determine that we neglected to teach him American English. 

When I see requirements like the Home School Application Supplement for Columbus State, it makes me wonder if they have had problems with homeschoolers not submitting a transcript or sending in transcripts that are difficult to understand.  Maybe the Supplement is their attempt to guide applicants to giving them information that they are able to follow.  I noticed that in several subject areas, there are more blocks than the number of credits required.  That suggests to me that they are looking for enough to support an application, not to come up with reasons to turn down an application. 

My hunch is that a student with good SAT scores (600s) who has 3-4 credits in history would likely be accepted, even if those credits were Ancient History, Middle Ages & Renaissance, and Modern History 1 & 2.  In other words, I think the courses are prompt suggestions, not requirements.  (Similarly, I don't think they are requiring Grammar and Usage, but list that as one possible credit.

Did you by chance ask them about the form?  I was also intrigued by the fact that their Source Legend didn't include "college" as one of the options.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I went back and looked at the transcripts for my current college students.  They were accepted widely and colleges were pretty complimentary about the documentation I sent in.

Neither has a generic World History on the transcript.  I did deviate somewhat from the WTM rotation as they got to high school and dabbled in some of the Advanced Placement history courses. 

One has: Modern World & US History, AP US Government, AP Comparative Government, AP European History, AP US History.  This one didn't take any Economics.

The second one has a lot of history and social studies credit, because that is his area of joy.  But they included courses like Japan Studies, Korea Studies, Chinese History along with European History, US History, Economics, and Government.  There wasn't a survey course in World History that spanned ancient to modern world history.

 

[MamaSprout]

Indiana University Bloomington requires 6 semester of social studies, and two do need to be US History and 2 semesters of world "something":

Academic preparation

Applicants should complete at least 34 credits of college-preparatory courses, including:

• 6 credits (semesters) of social sciences, including 2 credits of U.S. history; 2 credits of world history/civilization/geography; and 2 additional credits in government, economics, sociology, history, or similar topics.

They've gone back and forth on this. For a while they also required government and econ.

[croslandfamily]

On 11/26/2019 at 10:09 AM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

Could you share the name of the college? It's always good to see the variety of admissions requirements.

Yes! She wants to go to Texas State University. It’s where I went and it has a program that she wants to do. But I know things could change!

[kokotg]

On 11/27/2019 at 8:35 AM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

When I see requirements like the Home School Application Supplement for Columbus State, it makes me wonder if they have had problems with homeschoolers not submitting a transcript or sending in transcripts that are difficult to understand.  Maybe the Supplement is their attempt to guide applicants to giving them information that they are able to follow.  I noticed that in several subject areas, there are more blocks than the number of credits required.  That suggests to me that they are looking for enough to support an application, not to come up with reasons to turn down an application. 

My hunch is that a student with good SAT scores (600s) who has 3-4 credits in history would likely be accepted, even if those credits were Ancient History, Middle Ages & Renaissance, and Modern History 1 & 2.  In other words, I think the courses are prompt suggestions, not requirements.  (Similarly, I don't think they are requiring Grammar and Usage, but list that as one possible credit.

Did you by chance ask them about the form?  I was also intrigued by the fact that their Source Legend didn't include "college" as one of the options.

Yes, I wonder the same things....I can't imagine they'd really turn down an otherwise highly qualified student because their homeschool curriculum didn't fit into the boxes neatly enough. DS is only in 10th grade and not sure yet if he'll even apply to Columbus State--we'll ask for more specific information if/when the time comes to apply. 

[Kareni]

We came to homeschooling late and began in 7th grade.  We allowed my daughter the decision of whether or not to homeschool each year, so we took things on a year by year basis.  I'd describe our homeschooling as WTM inspired; however, I elected to do a three year run through world history.


In 7th grade, my daughter covered Pre-history to about AD500.
In 8th grade, my daughter studied the time period AD500 to about AD1700.
In 9th, she did an at home WTM inspired world history study of the time period from 1700 to 2000.  

Ninth grade was the last year she did history at home.

In 10th, she took an out of the home AP US History class which used Bailey's American Pageant.

In 11th grade, my daughter had an out of the home AP Comparative Gov't and Politics class.

Her interests in high school led her to emphasize foreign languages at the expense of history; there were only so many hours in a day! Her high school record looked like this:

9th: World History from 1700 to 2000 (at home, the third year of her chronological sweep through history)
10th: AP US History (out of the home class)
11th: AP Comparative Politics and Government (out of the home class)

You might not classify it as history, but she also did

12th: Art History (quarter long class at the community college)

We had access to excellent AP teachers at a free homeschooling resource center, and that was part of what decided our history choices during the high school years.

She was ultimately accepted to eight of the ten colleges to which she applied.

Regards,
Kareni

[yvonne]

Here's a cool website where you can click on Econ or Gov or.... and see which colleges require each of those from high school applicants. No idea how accurate it is, but maybe a starting point!

https://www.whatwilltheylearn.com/
 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

16 hours ago, yvonne said:

Here's a cool website where you can click on Econ or Gov or.... and see which colleges require each of those from high school applicants. No idea how accurate it is, but maybe a starting point!

https://www.whatwilltheylearn.com/
 

I'm pretty sure this site records college graduation requirements, not admission requirements. 

[Corraleno]

On 12/2/2019 at 6:00 AM, Sebastian (a lady) said:

I'm pretty sure this site records college graduation requirements, not admission requirements. 

Yeah, that website "grades" colleges based on whether or not they require specific college courses as Gen Eds. I find it especially strange that they downgrade colleges that don't specifically require all students take Economics and US Govt/History, because I think that's really uncommon. They also downgrade any college that requires a literature course, but allows options that are not strictly literature surveys (e.g. if a "film as literature" course would fulfill the requirement, they get a zero, even if the other 30 options are actual lit courses). So schools like Amherst, Brown, Johns Hopkins, and all the UCs get Fs and schools like Bluefield College and Southwest Baptist, with graduation rates ranging from 24%-34%, get As. Weird concept for rating colleges!