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Quill

Can we have a fierce discussion of teens and privacy?

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55 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

No, you weren't but I don't think it's typical for students to be together all day at school in most high schools. Your choice of class periods isn't usually self-determined. Comprehensive high schools in most of America operate with multiple lunch periods, class periods, and different schedules. Being in the same building doesn't guarantee "together time". There are less than 8 minutes between classes and lunch is 30 minutes or less.

ETA: In my graduating class 25 years ago we had 400 people in my graduating class. This was a semi-rural, suburban district in NW Arkansas (FFA, spit cups in class, smoking courtyard). No, we didn't get to choose our schedules to meet with friends. No, we didn't have lots of time between class periods, and no, we did not have 7 hrs a day with our significant others. I never saw my BF the whole time. He was actually at a different campus (vocational) for most of the day. This isn't so much about you, Pen, as I don't want HS parents to have some outsize view of the social opportunities that PS, HS offers. We had a lot less supervision, in fact we had an open campus and could go to fast food places for lunch, than my DDs school today.

 

I don’t know if “typical” necessarily exists.    I know I was at 3 high schools in two states myself and all were very different from one another and different again from the ps where my Ds is

locally problem is more likely to be inability to separate from someone where there was a bad break up freshman year      

Or where one person still is in love the other not   And having to see them all day perhaps with a new love interest As there is only one single class for most subjects

 

one person’s “small school” could be another person’s big school!  Not ours but as an example Compare: 

School district: Adrian School District
Team name: Adrian Antelopes
Number of students: 85 (2016-17)
Athletics conference: OSAA High Desert League
 
 
 

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2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Or, BOTH kids are heavily involved in PS activities, are in different classes in a school of 2000+ kids, and only see each other one on one for 30-180 minutes on weekends. LOL. Being in the same school doesn't mean constant togetherness. There are four lunches at DDs school. They have "one lunch" once a week to facilitate club meetings. DD and her 'friend' are both in fall sports that practice or have games 3-4 days week. These kids are B-U-S-Y. Even if you take the same classes, you may not have them during the same term or period and requests of that nature are not allowed.

This is pretty much the school situation here. Being at the same school doesn’t even mean you lay eyes on each other in the course of the day. I don’t think they share any classes; one at most. 

ETA: I actually just asked him; they share zero classes together. 

Edited by Quill
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9 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I don’t know if “typical” necessarily exists.    I know I was at 3 high schools in two states myself and all were very different from one another and different again from the ps where my Ds is

locally problem is more likely to be inability to separate from someone where there was a bad break up freshman year      

Or where one person still is in love the other not   And having to see them all day perhaps with a new love interest As there is only one single class for most subjects

 

one person’s “small school” could be another person’s big school!  Not ours but as an example Compare: 

School district: Adrian School District
Team name: Adrian Antelopes
Number of students: 85 (2016-17)
Athletics conference: OSAA High Desert League
 
 
 


Well, yes, there is. I also attended three high schools in CA, AR, and WA. There were many differences in terms of club/course availability and academic expectations but choosing to take classes with a buddy wasn’t one of those. The average high school in America 750 students. That’s mean, not mode. That’s a lot of students in one lunch period.

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22 minutes ago, Quill said:

Well, when my dd was 14, I had an unusual situation, because she had a bf, whom I knew extremely well because he was homeschooled, and I knew his family extremely well. She did not date anyone else. She is still in a relationship with this same guy. So I didn’t have the experience of her going off unsupervised or visiting boys whose family I didn’t know. I never had the need to discuss parameters of behavior with the parents because the parents were my own friends whom I had known for years. I trusted that their standards were similar to my own. So I didn’t have an obstacle with her. 

Your last paragraph, I agree with. It can certainly be handled without ridiculousness. 

My eldest has a 14yo male friend (he asked her to "go with him" but I feel like they are just good friends - though I could be wrong); I admit I don't like the idea of them being unsupervised together for any stretch of time.  It's not that I assume anything about either of them; it's just that I feel like they are both too young to really understand being responsible.  Plus, they do not exist in a vacuum.  Other kids have already decided they need to get married; who knows what else is said in the peer group.  The boy's mom has suggested they have a sleep-over at his house (actually both of my daughters with this boy) and she says she will sleep in the same room with all of them.  But I still don't feel gung-ho about it.  I'm not a crazy person and I like the other mom.  But ... the fact is that if the kids got a stupid idea into their heads, it would not be hard for my kid to end up pregnant. Yes, she knows about bc etc etc but she is too young for that level of responsibility.  Like she's not going to go around with condoms in her backpack at this age.

I dunno, I just think the early teens are really young, and boy-girl privacy is not at all necessary yet.  The only question in my mind would be how to supervise without being that weird and "cringey" mom.

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Actually ... the more I think about how things were when I was around that age ... the longer grows the list of dumb stupid choices that were made.  And there were girls in my class who got pregnant at 14.  So ... likely that's what the girl's mom in this scenario is thinking.  Especially if she doesn't really know Quill's family yet.

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43 minutes ago, Quill said:

Cell phone, room and backpack checks were part of what the dad told me about that I disagreed with. (I disagreed internally, as in for my own conscience with my own kids.) But I did wonder if I should not be so free as I am on those things. 

 

I'm pretty much of the opinion that privacy is a priveledge, not a right.  As a foster parent I've had a child in my home who would steal everything they could get their hands on and partake in sexual abuse given any opportunity, even in front of social workers.  That child had less and less privacy the longer they stayed with us.  Others were the opposite and slowly earned more freedom and privacy over time.

I imagine that if you suddenly saw signs of crime, drugs or gang activity you'd be less inclined to grant the privacy.  But what you're describing is completely age-appropriate for a relatively good kid who you (mostly) trust.  

Her parents are either controlling to a degree bordering on abusive, were really bad kids themselves and can't imagine that a child could be good, or have some reason to suspect the child is sneaking something they wouldn't approve of.  Which could be food, drugs, porn, rock music, Harry Potter books, or anything else.  In one terribly abusive situation I learned about, baths and clean laundry.

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1 hour ago, Quill said:

Cell phone, room and backpack checks were part of what the dad told me about that I disagreed with. (I disagreed internally, as in for my own conscience with my own kids.) But I did wonder if I should not be so free as I am on those things. 

 

Do they actually do those things on a regular basis, or do they reserve the right to do those things, but never actually do them unless they have a reason to be suspicious?

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Personally, I check my kids' cell phones daily, backpacks periodically, and their rooms whenever I feel like it.  None of this is about boy-girl stuff (or drugs either) right now, it's just part of knowing what guidance my kids need.  I don't see this changing a ton any time soon, based on things I see at least one kid doing/saying.

That said - if Mom's nosiness makes them think twice before doing xyz, so much the better.  Obviously they are capable of sneaking, but maybe that "think twice" exercise will remind them why doing xyz is a bad idea to begin with.

In the circle I run in, most moms of young teens do check their phones, bags, and/or lockers periodically.  (And some teens still don't have their own phones.)  Again, not as an "I suspect you" kind of thing; our kids just aren't taught that bags etc. are private as between parent and child.

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Do they actually do those things on a regular basis, or do they reserve the right to do those things, but never actually do them unless they have a reason to be suspicious?

Regular basis, is what he told me, for merely being a teen. That is what I disagreed with. 

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2 hours ago, Quill said:

Cell phone, room and backpack checks were part of what the dad told me about that I disagreed with. (I disagreed internally, as in for my own conscience with my own kids.) But I did wonder if I should not be so free as I am on those things. 

I absolutely reserve the right to check any of those things at any time.  And you know what, sometimes, I am not even there to trying to find out what my kids are up to.  Sometimes, I was in my kids room picking up and flinging stuff to find something totally neutral, like a soccer uniform to wash it before the game or something.  But yeah, I will check them if I feel like it.  Not often or on a regular schedule or anything, unless I felt that was necessary (such as if I suspected something like drug use or whatever.)  But yes, as a parent, I reserve the right to check.

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

I'm pretty much of the opinion that privacy is a privilege, not a right. 

I also agree with this.  Now, much like driving, it's a privilege I want my kids to have and I encourage them to use responsibly, but yes, it's a privilege I grant to my kids.  

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

Personally, I check my kids' cell phones daily, backpacks periodically, and their rooms whenever I feel like it.  None of this is about boy-girl stuff (or drugs either) right now, it's just part of knowing what guidance my kids need.  I don't see this changing a ton any time soon, based on things I see at least one kid doing/saying.

That said - if Mom's nosiness makes them think twice before doing xyz, so much the better.  Obviously they are capable of sneaking, but maybe that "think twice" exercise will remind them why doing xyz is a bad idea to begin with.

In the circle I run in, most moms of young teens do check their phones, bags, and/or lockers periodically.  (And some teens still don't have their own phones.)  Again, not as an "I suspect you" kind of thing; our kids just aren't taught that bags etc. are private as between parent and child.

I think this is a good point.  I think there's something to be said for the idea that knowing a parent is checking up on you also means knowing that it's probably something you shouldn't be doing.  (in a normal healthy parent/child relationship of course.)  

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1 hour ago, SKL said:

My eldest has a 14yo male friend (he asked her to "go with him" but I feel like they are just good friends - though I could be wrong); I admit I don't like the idea of them being unsupervised together for any stretch of time.  It's not that I assume anything about either of them; it's just that I feel like they are both too young to really understand being responsible.  Plus, they do not exist in a vacuum.  Other kids have already decided they need to get married; who knows what else is said in the peer group.  The boy's mom has suggested they have a sleep-over at his house (actually both of my daughters with this boy) and she says she will sleep in the same room with all of them.  But I still don't feel gung-ho about it.  I'm not a crazy person and I like the other mom.  But ... the fact is that if the kids got a stupid idea into their heads, it would not be hard for my kid to end up pregnant. Yes, she knows about bc etc etc but she is too young for that level of responsibility.  Like she's not going to go around with condoms in her backpack at this age.

I dunno, I just think the early teens are really young, and boy-girl privacy is not at all necessary yet.  The only question in my mind would be how to supervise without being that weird and "cringey" mom.

Yeah...I would not be down with co-ed sleepovers at this age. When we sometimes had opposite genders staying at our beach house for vacation, they had to sleep on separate floors with a bunch of pesky cousins in the way. 

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3 minutes ago, Quill said:

Regular basis, is what he told me, for merely being a teen. That is what I disagreed with. 

 

That seems excessive to me, too. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 1:23 PM, Dotwithaperiod said:

Yep. School dances when I was a kid were wild- the kids found ways to have sex and get drunk on the campus before their parents picked them up. I saw that at orchestra parties, too. Orchestra!!

I can’t resist....

 

So this one time at band camp.....

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4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

No, you weren't but I don't think it's typical for students to be together all day at school in most high schools. Your choice of class periods isn't usually self-determined. Comprehensive high schools in most of America operate with multiple lunch periods, class periods, and different schedules. Being in the same building doesn't guarantee "together time". There are less than 8 minutes between classes and lunch is 30 minutes or less.

ETA: In my graduating class 25 years ago we had 400 people in my graduating class. This was a semi-rural, suburban district in NW Arkansas (FFA, spit cups in class, smoking courtyard). No, we didn't get to choose our schedules to meet with friends. No, we didn't have lots of time between class periods, and no, we did not have 7 hrs a day with our significant others. I never saw my BF the whole time. He was actually at a different campus (vocational) for most of the day. This isn't so much about you, Pen, as I don't want HS parents to have some outsize view of the social opportunities that PS, HS offers. We had a lot less supervision, in fact we had an open campus and could go to fast food places for lunch, than my DDs school today.

 

🙂

ok   You’ve clarified that the majority of kids are going to be at bigger schools.  

 

Im not sure about the “most of America” concept.  I have no idea if most of America has multiple lunch periods.  Could be. I haven’t studied that. 

 

 

In our wider area, I think the average size of around 750 students may be around true—but made up of a few schools with 1000s in cities— and way more schools with around 100 students average in rural areas.  And even the big schools that I’m aware of don’t have multiple lunch periods here.

Locally kids would not be able to ask to have class with a particular student by name, but if there’s only one drama class, or one ___ class, and two friends sign up then they’ll be in same class.   

Most of the non city schools where I know people who have kids at them have only one 9th grade English class, one Spanish 1 class, etc.  

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I’ve been reading this thread with interest (14 yr old boy who looks at girls, but has declared them to be too much drama at this point, lol). But I just had to comment on the civility of the posts in a thread asking for a fierce discussion....

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5 hours ago, Sneezyone said:


Well, yes, there is. I also attended three high schools in CA, AR, and WA. There were many differences in terms of club/course availability and academic expectations but choosing to take classes with a buddy wasn’t one of those. The average high school in America 750 students. That’s mean, not mode. That’s a lot of students in one lunch period.

You went to high school in AR? Me too. 

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12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

You went to high school in AR? Me too. 


yep. I probably overstated the size of my graduating class too...lol...by a lot. I spent the last two years at FHS. You can’t even have high schools with fewer than 350 kids there now...consolidation by judicial fiat. 😂

Edited by Sneezyone

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35 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


yep. I probably overstated the size of my graduating class too...lol...by a lot. I spent the last two years at FHS. You can’t even have high schools with fewer than 350 kids there now...consolidation by judicial fiat. 😂

Where is FHS? I graduated in a small town of 5000. 135 in my graduating class.

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11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Where is FHS? I graduated in a small town of 5000. 135 in my graduating class.

Fayetteville.

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I reserve the right to check my kids' anything, although I've never actually done it.

We frame the whole privacy issue as an accountability issue, not a discipline or punishment ot lack of trust issue. As in, we are all accountable to each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. So for example, my DH and I have accountability apps on our phones too, not just the kids. But that only works because my 3 teens have all had a born again conversion and sought out that kind of accountability with us. Not sure how that dynamic would change if we had a teen who didn't want accountability, but I'm sure it would.

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2 hours ago, arctic_bunny said:

I’ve been reading this thread with interest (14 yr old boy who looks at girls, but has declared them to be too much drama at this point, lol). But I just had to comment on the civility of the posts in a thread asking for a fierce discussion....

I was pre-emptively bracing for it to be fierce! 😆

But then again, you never know what might trigger folks...it could be cupcakes. Or shopping carts not returned. 

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8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Fayetteville.

Oh wow.  I lived my entire adult life until 7 years ago in Fort Smith.  Now I live in OK, but not far from Fayetteville.

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7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Oh wow.  I lived my entire adult life until 7 years ago in Fort Smith.  Now I live in OK, but not far from Fayetteville.


My only experience with Fort Smith was as a visiting football team. At the time, they were the ‘Rebels’ and played ‘Dixie’ during the games. We were lectured on the bus not to react to epithets.

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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:


My only experience with Fort Smith was as a visiting football team. At the time, they were the ‘Rebels’ and played ‘Dixie’ during the games. We were lectured on the bus not to react to epithets.

Oh my word. Well it would have been worse on down south where I went to school.  

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3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

🙂

ok   You’ve clarified that the majority of kids are going to be at bigger schools.  

 

Im not sure about the “most of America” concept.  I have no idea if most of America has multiple lunch periods.  Could be. I haven’t studied that. 

 

 

In our wider area, I think the average size of around 750 students may be around true—but made up of a few schools with 1000s in cities— and way more schools with around 100 students average in rural areas.  And even the big schools that I’m aware of don’t have multiple lunch periods here.

Locally kids would not be able to ask to have class with a particular student by name, but if there’s only one drama class, or one ___ class, and two friends sign up then they’ll be in same class.   

Most of the non city schools where I know people who have kids at them have only one 9th grade English class, one Spanish 1 class, etc.  

This seems so off.  I am from a very small town and there were less than 400 in my high school and less than 100 in my graduating class. We still had more than one lunch period and definitely more than one class for each subject. Of course, I knew every student but I still didn't have many classes or time with my besties/boyfriends during the day.

This thread makes me glad oldest only had one real relationship as a teen. She was sweet, they went to prom together, but then it turned into a weird Lifetime movie. Three years later at 20 he still has no desire to try again just yet. Thankfully he has a good group of friends at college and feels there is plenty of time for that later.

I would kind of do the supervision they are asking for so visits wouldn't be one sided but I would secretly be hoping the relationship ended soon. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Oh my word. Well it would have been worse on down south where I went to school.  


Probably. My years there were a real culture shock. I can’t imagine what it might have been like elsewhere.

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2 minutes ago, Joker said:

This seems so off.  I am from a very small town and there were less than 400 in my high school and less than 100 in my graduating class. We still had more than one lunch period and definitely more than one class for each subject. Of course, I knew every student but I still didn't have many classes or time with my besties/boyfriends during the day.

This thread makes me glad oldest only had one real relationship as a teen. She was sweet, they went to prom together, but then it turned into a weird Lifetime movie. Three years later at 20 he still has no desire to try again just yet. Thankfully he has a good group of friends at college and feels there is plenty of time for that later.

I would kind of do the supervision they are asking for so visits wouldn't be one sided but I would secretly be hoping the relationship ended soon. 


I looked it up for kicks and there are some states with super small high schools, 200-300 kids on average: ID, SD, ND, WY, OK. I imagine some of them are tribal.

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Oh, and as far as privacy being a privilege, I'm not sure how I feel. My mom was definitely one of those and I still don't trust her to this day. I've even told my kids to never leave anything out when she's around they don't want her snooping in. I've always thought if there was a good reason to check phones and such that I would. I did a few times with ds when dealing with some things but it was very rare. I don't really think it's a good or healthy thing to do.

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4 minutes ago, Joker said:

Oh, and as far as privacy being a privilege, I'm not sure how I feel. My mom was definitely one of those and I still don't trust her to this day. I've even told my kids to never leave anything out when she's around they don't want her snooping in. I've always thought if there was a good reason to check phones and such that I would. I did a few times with ds when dealing with some things but it was very rare. I don't really think it's a good or healthy thing to do.

I think the key to treating privacy as a privilege is that as a parent, I cannot then abuse my power to grant such a privilege.  I cannot and should not do ABC or XYZ just because I can or because my kids don't have the right to stop me.  As a parent, I have a default power over my kids, which includes granting privileges.  As a GOOD parent, not abusing that power is very important.  So I try to take care not to.  

It's kind of like driving.  Driving is a privilege, not a right.  It's a privilege that I feel it's very important for my kids to learn and encouraged getting her license as soon as she could.  But, then I didn't require she do all the shopping or kid hauling or other overly crazy requests just because she could drive.  Sure, I asked her to pick up gallons of milk occasionally on her way home.  I never asked her to do an entire week's worth of grocery shopping just because I didn't feel like going.  That is the same concept to me.  

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25 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:


I looked it up for kicks and there are some states with super small high schools, 200-300 kids on average: ID, SD, ND, WY, OK. I imagine some of them are tribal.

In my area of NY, schools often have K-12 in the same building, or 2 buildings next to each other. I looked at 5or 6 surrounding towns. The high school senior class size varied from 17 to around 40. The largest town had 100 seniors. Their parents and grandparents more than likely went there, too. A majority of the teachers also grew up in the area. Sometimes that sounds sweet to me, other times I find it a bit sad. 

Edited by Dotwithaperiod
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7 hours ago, SKL said:

Actually ... the more I think about how things were when I was around that age ... the longer grows the list of dumb stupid choices that were made.  And there were girls in my class who got pregnant at 14.  So ... likely that's what the girl's mom in this scenario is thinking.  Especially if she doesn't really know Quill's family yet.

Yeah, but I bet they didn't get pregnant with their mom or boyfriend's mom in the house, walking in and out of the room at random times while they watched a movie, you know?

Like, there is supervised as in mom in the house, kids in a public room, parent walks in now and then at unpredictable moments and then there is supervised as in mom sits in the room staring at them and they can't even have a private conversation. 

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30 minutes ago, Joker said:

This seems so off.  I am from a very small town and there were less than 400 in my high school and less than 100 in my graduating class. We still had more than one lunch period and definitely more than one class for each subject. Of course, I knew every student but I still didn't have many classes or time with my besties/boyfriends during the day.

This thread makes me glad oldest only had one real relationship as a teen. She was sweet, they went to prom together, but then it turned into a weird Lifetime movie. Three years later at 20 he still has no desire to try again just yet. Thankfully he has a good group of friends at college and feels there is plenty of time for that later.

I would kind of do the supervision they are asking for so visits wouldn't be one sided but I would secretly be hoping the relationship ended soon. 

 

My ds’s class has fewer than 20 students.  🙂 

It is one of the smaller classes though . Around 25 is more common.  

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14 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

In my area of NY, schools often have K-12 in the same building, or 2 buildings next to each other. I looked at 5or 6 surrounding towns. The high school senior class size varied from 17 to around 40. The largest town had 100 seniors

I was looking at averages. There are always outliers. I wouldn’t call schools that small the norm.
 

ETA: According to this: some 70% of PS, HS students attend schools with more than 1000 students.  https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ovae/pi/hs/schoolsize.html

Edited by Sneezyone
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13 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

In my area of NY, schools often have K-12 in the same building, or 2 buildings next to each other. I looked at 5or 6 surrounding towns. The high school senior class size varied from 17 to around 40. The largest town had 100 seniors. Their parents and grandparents more than likely went there, too. A majority of the teachers also grew up in the area. Sometimes that sounds sweet to me, other times I find it a bit sad. 

Growing up in rural IA, I couldn’t wait to get out of my small town and my husband felt the same growing up in a similar town. Even though I was never one to get in any trouble, I still hated everyone knowing me and my business. But as my parents aged and especially after my dad passed away and everyone was so helpful and supportive of my mom in every way, I came to see the plus side of living where everyone knows you and many generations of family live in the same town. Ironically, my family is still something of newcomers in my hometown because my parents have only lived there for 50 years and we are not related to anyone else (many of my classmates had lots of first cousins in school with them and now their children are going to school together).

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19 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I was looking at averages. There are always outliers. I wouldn’t call schools that small the norm.
 

ETA: According to this: some 70% of PS, HS students attend schools with more than 1000 students.  https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ovae/pi/hs/schoolsize.html

Yeah, the high school my dc went to has graduating classes of about 700. The high school holds almost 3000 students. I couldn't relate at all since my own was so much smaller. Such different experiences.

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5 hours ago, Pen said:

<snip> and way more schools with around 100 students average in rural areas.  And even the big schools that I’m aware of don’t have multiple lunch periods here.

 

 

So I'm sure this varies around the country but in the places we've lived there's a lot of school consolidation and busing going on in rural areas. 

I remember reading in some newspaper in Oklahoma that part of the issue with school funding there is that because of various government structures (both the state and tribal), the schools there weren't easily consolidated like in many areas. Which meant that there were many more people working in administration than there were in larger, consolidated schools, and other people who were hired solely to meet oversight requirements had to be hired for each school, rather than a whole district the size of the county, or even multiple counties in some places.

 

How do large schools do one lunch hour for an entire school? Are you in a warm area where kids can eat outside, or do the schools have HUGE cafeterias that can seat every student at the same time?

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This purports to be a list for my current state.  I know the number of students changes week to week as kids move, but a school with 34 probably isn’t suddenly going to get 3000 or vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_schools_in_Oregon

 

I wonder if saying 70% of Hs students go to schools with more than 1000 is just a way of saying schools where the population is dense tend to be larger, and most people live where the population is dense?

 

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3 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

So I'm sure this varies around the country but in the places we've lived there's a lot of school consolidation and busing going on in rural areas. 

I remember reading in some newspaper in Oklahoma that part of the issue with school funding there is that because of various government structures (both the state and tribal), the schools there weren't easily consolidated like in many areas. Which meant that there were many more people working in administration than there were in larger, consolidated schools, and other people who were hired solely to meet oversight requirements had to be hired for each school, rather than a whole district the size of the county, or even multiple counties in some places.

 

How do large schools do one lunch hour for an entire school? Are you in a warm area where kids can eat outside, or do the schools have HUGE cafeterias that can seat every student at the same time?


“One lunch” at DDs school is only once a week but the kids aren’t all eating. It’s about 60 minutes and there are are activities that draw kids away from the lunch area...ping pong, basketball, club meetings and teacher office hours. There was a Supreme Court ruling in AR that mandated consolidation of districts with less than 350 students.

Edited by Sneezyone
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3 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

So I'm sure this varies around the country but in the places we've lived there's a lot of school consolidation and busing going on in rural areas. 

 

There’s lots of bussing here—our local school has kids coming from a more or less 40 miles by 18 mile area.  It still has only around 150 students, and is by no means onevof the smallest in state.  Cascades Mountains and Coastal mountains limit the ability to consolidate in those directions. 

3 minutes ago, Katy said:

I remember reading in some newspaper in Oklahoma that part of the issue with school funding there is that because of various government structures (both the state and tribal), the schools there weren't easily consolidated like in many areas. Which meant that there were many more people working in administration than there were in larger, consolidated schools, and other people who were hired solely to meet oversight requirements had to be hired for each school, rather than a whole district the size of the county, or even multiple counties in some places.

 

How do large schools do one lunch hour for an entire school? Are you in a warm area where kids can eat outside, or do the schools have HUGE cafeterias that can seat every student at the same time?

 

It’s usually not too cold here to eat outside.  Plus gym and cafeteria areas 

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2 minutes ago, Pen said:

This purports to be a list for my current state.  I know the number of students changes week to week as kids move, but a school with 34 probably isn’t suddenly going to get 3000 or vice versa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_schools_in_Oregon

 

I wonder if saying 70% of Hs students go to schools with more than 1000 is just a way of saying schools where the population is dense tend to be larger, and most people live where the population is dense?

 


I think it means most high school students do not attend small schools. Katy is correct that there’s been a national move to consolidate tiny schools/districts to reduce administrative expenses and improve course offerings. I remember when the AR SC ruled that small districts were unable to provide an adequate education as required by the state constitution. Lots of small towns lost their high schools after that. The ideal size of a comprehensive high school is supposedly between 600-900 students.

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2 hours ago, Joker said:

Oh, and as far as privacy being a privilege, I'm not sure how I feel. My mom was definitely one of those and I still don't trust her to this day. I've even told my kids to never leave anything out when she's around they don't want her snooping in. I've always thought if there was a good reason to check phones and such that I would. I did a few times with ds when dealing with some things but it was very rare. I don't really think it's a good or healthy thing to do.

In my house, for young teens, the phone is a tool for them to do things that are not private.  They know I check everything (or may check) and I've told them to inform their friends of same.  (My kids also know that their friends' parents check phones.)  It would be different if I let them treat it as a private diary and then decided to read it.

I find this to be a very healthy arrangement for my young teens.  It may not be right for your teens, and probably isn't best for much older teens.

One thing to remember - sometimes kids need and want an out when it comes to difficult interpersonal situations.  If I see something unhealthy going on in the text messages etc., I can provide an appropriate intervention and relieve some of the pressure.  When I was a young teen, my folks had no way of knowing how I was struggling with peers, because telling them didn't feel like an option.  (But, at least I was safe at home in those days ... nowadays tough peer stuff follows kids wherever their phone goes.)

So far my kids haven't complained about me reading their texts.  They are a little less excited for me to see what they have been doing on the internet.

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6 hours ago, Sneezyone said:


I think it means most high school students do not attend small schools. Katy is correct that there’s been a national move to consolidate tiny schools/districts to reduce administrative expenses and improve course offerings. I remember when the AR SC ruled that small districts were unable to provide an adequate education as required by the state constitution. Lots of small towns lost their high schools after that. The ideal size of a comprehensive high school is supposedly between 600-900 students.

 

Interesting.

I think in my current state that few are in that size range. Most bigger or smaller

how did they decide that was best? 

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

I tried to answer my own question and could not but did find:

https://www.newvisions.org/pages/small-schools-study

 

This is a little skewed. Student engagement/performance increased in some areas, yes, but that was at the expense of other subjects. The smaller school within a school programs were unable to offer robust performing arts (specifically band and orchestra) programs.

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Here in NYC Bloomberg was very taken with small high schools, so every time they closed a failing "large" high school they shoved 4 - 6 smaller schools in the same spot.

Now people are taking a long, sober look at these smaller high schools and saying "Wait - but they turned out not to be a panacea after all!" (No kidding.) But there's no push to open up larger or even middle-sized schools again, or even to have the multiple small schools on the same campus band together to offer certain not-very-much-in-demand classes that none can support on their own, though they do band together to offer sports and you're allowed to do after school sports at another school if your school doesn't offer them.

Meanwhile, the middle schools are still pretty freaking enormous, and nobody seems to have noticed or cared.

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