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Quill

Can we have a fierce discussion of teens and privacy?

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1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Quill, what is it like when your ds spends time at the girl’s house? Does he enjoy being there? Are the parents nice? Is a parent in the room with them at all times? Does he feel like they’re staring at him all the time?

I’m curious about how things work at their house.

Like I said, this is new. He’s only been there once and the plan of approved activities was almost identical. They ate pizza and watched a movie with the parents present in the room. 

The mom called me to outline their standards as soon as ds asked her to homecoming. In a way, though, I actually do have some respect for her having done that, because I think it takes courage to proactively do that rather than say nothing but be a nervous wreck whenever your kid is somewhere without you. Even though they *still* seem to be a nervous wreck...

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I do think there's probably a significant regional variation here. In the ACELA corridor and even down here in Hampton Roads, 14/15yos are just a few years away from the ability to enlist. I know DH and I have always approached parenting from the perspective of, what skills does he need/like to see in the 18yos he supervises at work. We worked backward from there. I think seeing the drama of newly minted 'adults' who cannot manage a relationship to save their lives was traumatizing for DH. Well, that and knowing they have significant responsibilities.

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Like I said, this is new. He’s only been there once and the plan of approved activities was almost identical. They ate pizza and watched a movie with the parents present in the room. 

The mom called me to outline their standards as soon as ds asked her to homecoming. In a way, though, I actually do have some respect for her having done that, because I think it takes courage to proactively do that rather than say nothing but be a nervous wreck whenever your kid is somewhere without you. Even though they *still* seem to be a nervous wreck...

 

This is kinda why I feel like there are a lot of leaps being made. For most similarly situated, intact families, these kids are really tame. We all have the same expectations for our kids...graduating, going to college, getting decent jobs and we are preparing them accordingly. Yes, teen pregnancy occurs but it's far from an epidemic in this area.

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4 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

If it were me, I'd be honest with the parents and the son - an adequate and appropriate level of supervision will be provided. What Quill is already doing is fine. She can reassure the parents that she isn't running some kind of house for loose teens, and that the teens will be in public spaces of the house, with other people also in the house. I would ignore entirely the silliness of 'you must have your eyes on them every minute and they cannot go outside'.

 

I agree with this.  For example, the no blankets thing is a fine rule to have, but the rule is for the daughter from her parents. And at 14, Quill is not baby-sitting this girl and shouldn't be in a position of saying,  "No, no! No blankets, your dad said,  remember?" She can enforce her own house rules,  but she's not their baby-sitter.

 

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As far as the “no blankets” rule I would not be making any announcements about that because it just seems awkward and humiliating to enforce that rule in an obvious way. I would tell ds ahead of time that is the rule and you are counting on him to enforce it. I understand the reason for the rule and think it is reasonable but no way would I march in and remove a blanket while they are watching a movie. Or announce “remember no blankets!”

It just seems so icky and awkward and embarrassing for everyone. I’d remove throws from the area and tell ds that was his responsibility to enforce but no way am I going to make a young woman in my home feel like I am accusing her of potentially getting busy under a blanket while I’m sitting across the room. Just eek.

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17 minutes ago, Quill said:

Like I said, this is new. He’s only been there once and the plan of approved activities was almost identical. They ate pizza and watched a movie with the parents present in the room. 

The mom called me to outline their standards as soon as ds asked her to homecoming. In a way, though, I actually do have some respect for her having done that, because I think it takes courage to proactively do that rather than say nothing but be a nervous wreck whenever your kid is somewhere without you. Even though they *still* seem to be a nervous wreck...

 

Say what?!

Honestly, I’m very confused. 

Your Ds asked the girl to homecoming, and then instead of it just being a homecoming date like your Ds asked for and the girl accepted, the girl’s parents changed it (hugely increased it) into a going together one on one with dates to each other’s homes type of thing?!?! And you agreed to that too?

 

Or were the kids themselves begging to have dates at each other’s houses? 

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2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

As far as the “no blankets” rule I would not be making any announcements about that because it just seems awkward and humiliating to enforce that rule in an obvious way. I would tell ds ahead of time that is the rule and you are counting on him to enforce it. I understand the reason for the rule and think it is reasonable but no way would I march in and remove a blanket while they are watching a movie. Or announce “remember no blankets!”

It just seems so icky and awkward and embarrassing for everyone. I’d remove throws from the area and tell ds that was his responsibility to enforce but no way am I going to make a young woman in my home feel like I am accusing her of potentially getting busy under a blanket while I’m sitting across the room. Just eek.

Well, this point was fairly easy to comply with. I told ds ahead of time that her parents dont allow it and then I removed the blankets that usually stay in that room. 

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Just now, Pen said:

 

Say what?!

Honestly, I’m very confused. 

Your Ds asked the girl to homecoming, and then instead of it just being a homecoming date like your Ds asked for and the girl accepted, the girl’s parents changed it (hugely increased it) into a going together one on one with dates to each other’s homes type of thing?!?! And you agreed to that too?

 

Or were the kids themselves begging to have dates at each other’s houses? 

Why is this confusing? He asked her to hoco with the poster thing “prom-posal” that a lot of kids do now. And then I think - I don’t remember exactly what number of days elapsed or whatever, but they were planning to meet up at a sports event, so the mom called me like, “Hi, just wanted to introduce myself...” and she had rules/standards regarding meeting up at a football game and then she told me her other rules if he comes over there and she sought reassurance that I would have compatible standards. 

I don’t think they (or I) hugely increased it. It was apparent the kids were interested in one another and he wasn’t asking her to hoco as “just a friend” kind of thing. (Which honestly, I would prefer, but that’s not what happened so oh well...) 

Then, there have been other interactions with either/both of the parents where they texted, called or talked to me in person. So far, there have been re-iterations of their standards before each time they have been together, though that hasn’t been a lot of times, because they haven’t known each other very long. *That* is what seems excessive to me. I just think they are “on it” to a hyper degree I haven’t seen before with any of my kids’ bf/gfs. In the past I am more often the stricter parent. 

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1 minute ago, Quill said:

Why is this confusing? He asked her to hoco with the poster thing “prom-posal” that a lot of kids do now. And then I think - I don’t remember exactly what number of days elapsed or whatever, but they were planning to meet up at a sports event, so the mom called me like, “Hi, just wanted to introduce myself...” and she had rules/standards regarding meeting up at a football game and then she told me her other rules if he comes over there and she sought reassurance that I would have compatible standards. 

I don’t think they (or I) hugely increased it. It was apparent the kids were interested in one another and he wasn’t asking her to hoco as “just a friend” kind of thing. (Which honestly, I would prefer, but that’s not what happened so oh well...) 

Then, there have been other interactions with either/both of the parents where they texted, called or talked to me in person. So far, there have been re-iterations of their standards before each time they have been together, though that hasn’t been a lot of times, because they haven’t known each other very long. *That* is what seems excessive to me. I just think they are “on it” to a hyper degree I haven’t seen before with any of my kids’ bf/gfs. In the past I am more often the stricter parent. 

 

This is so bizarre to me. DD is on the other end of things and I have not yet met this young man's parents although I did see them on the field at HOCO because his older sister won HOCO queen. I've never met them and haven't felt the need to introduce myself. I think there's a general misunderstanding of how these things often come together. In my DDs case, the young man basically said, "So, when are we gonna make this a thing?" AT HOCO. Before that, it was, "So do we have a date for HOCO?" and they met up at the dance. Since then, they have walked to McDs one time (he lives in our neighborhood), and tried to meet up this weekend but both had other commitments. "Dating" is not necessarily what folks are imagining. It's not necessarily that serious. In our case, no one's being dropped off, unsupervised, anywhere. Neither family is prepared to allow that. I don't even have to ask.

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2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Why is this confusing? He asked her to hoco with the poster thing “prom-posal” that a lot of kids do now. And then I think - I don’t remember exactly what number of days elapsed or whatever, but they were planning to meet up at a sports event, so the mom called me like, “Hi, just wanted to introduce myself...” and she had rules/standards regarding meeting up at a football game and then she told me her other rules if he comes over there and she sought reassurance that I would have compatible standards. 

I don’t think they (or I) hugely increased it. It was apparent the kids were interested in one another and he wasn’t asking her to hoco as “just a friend” kind of thing. (Which honestly, I would prefer, but that’s not what happened so oh well...) 

Then, there have been other interactions with either/both of the parents where they texted, called or talked to me in person. So far, there have been re-iterations of their standards before each time they have been together, though that hasn’t been a lot of times, because they haven’t known each other very long. *That* is what seems excessive to me. I just think they are “on it” to a hyper degree I haven’t seen before with any of my kids’ bf/gfs. In the past I am more often the stricter parent. 

 

Who initiated having the two spend time at each other’s homes? 

It sounds like the kids were ready for a ballgame date,— and instead of just dealing with ballgame plans, the parents raised that to going to each other’s homes, blankets, etc, before the kids themselves may have requested that.  

 

 

 

 

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If so, I’d say that going into home dating rules, “blankets” rules, suggesting rules for get togethers at parents’ homes, is its own form of a privacy (or something like privacy) violation.  

 

Edited by Pen

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22 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Who initiated having the two spend time at each other’s homes? 

It sounds like the kids were ready for a ballgame date,— and instead of just dealing with ballgame plans, the parents raised that to going to each other’s homes, blankets, etc, before the kids themselves may have requested that.  

 

 

 

 

One or both of the kids initiated it. I don’t understand how you’re imagining it. The mom, it seems to me, thought it best to get her standards on the table from Day One because they evidently “liked” each other. I don’t think *the mom* suggested, “Well, honey, don’t you want to spend time at each others houses?” 🙃 I mean, just no. More like, she saw they evidently mean to “see” each other, as more than friends, so mom thought it best to get out ahead of the game by saying these are our standards. 

You seem to be thinking teens don’t come to that conclusion themselves - that they want to go over each others houses - that they only come up with this if parents put that idea in their heads. I mean, that hasn’t been my experience at all, though I am sure there are teens who are like that. 

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I hope I can remember all that Quill has said...

I would tell my son that at 14, he is both old enough to be interested physically-romantically-emotionally in another person while also old enough to speak frankly with. So here are the facts, son: I can and will not supervise you 100% to her parents satisfaction at this time. Yet tho I would prefer you to be able to see her here, it seems that her folks trump here merely by being her parents, which means that they will most likely not allow her to visit you at this time. You can then decide to follow their rules at her house, and our rules while at other public areas, or you can decide it is not worth it. You may also consider following their rules while purposefully letting them get to know you, unless we learn that their rules will apply no matter how wonderful you are, until she’s 16, 18, married, etc. I will not lie to her parents about your actions with her in my home. I will explain all of what I’ve told you to her parents if necessary.

My own son had many liberties and few restrictions, but he was always an extremely easy going kid. My stepdaughter  not so much. Parents have duties and rights concerning their children, especially those ‘dating’ as young teens. Expanding the kid’s own liberties as they go thru high school can be maddening if the child is at odds, but let’s face it, we really have very very little control once they’re away at college, whether we’re paying for them or not. My son told me some stories that would curl your toes about the antics of his dorm mates. Some of these kids were pretty unsavory in lots of ways, but others were people he still calls his friends, who seem to have matured and have become happy, healthy adults. What works for one will be disastrous for another. We can only hope that parents want the best for their children, and go from there.

 

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39 minutes ago, Quill said:

One or both of the kids initiated it. I don’t understand how you’re imagining it. The mom, it seems to me, thought it best to get her standards on the table from Day One because they evidently “liked” each other. I don’t think *the mom* suggested, “Well, honey, don’t you want to spend time at each others houses?” 🙃 I mean, just no. More like, she saw they evidently mean to “see” each other, as more than friends, so mom thought it best to get out ahead of the game by saying these are our standards. 

You seem to be thinking teens don’t come to that conclusion themselves - that they want to go over each others houses - that they only come up with this if parents put that idea in their heads. I mean, that hasn’t been my experience at all, though I am sure there are teens who are like that. 

 

 

In the geographic area where I live, and now—clearly can be very different elsewhere or in 1960s or whatever—unless the teens live close enough to get themselves to one another’s home, or are already driving, it takes parental involvement (or an older person who can drive anyway)  to achieve a one-on-one date at a parental home.  

Most parents I know who are as worried about blankets etc as your ds’ girlfr Parents seem to be would be holding off on actively assisting a dd to have a one-on-one date at a home.  Instead Letting the kids get to know each other at school, school activities, maybe a double date to skate rink...

Obviously if the kids can walk, bike, subway to each other’s homes that would not apply.  

ETA: if the kids live near enough in such a way that they can completely initiate a oneoneone at each other’s home on their own —don’t need a ride or any help—then it seems odd to me that they are apparently trusted not to go to each other’s house while no adult is there at all—yet not to be alone together for even a second unsupervised. 

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24 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

In the geographic area where I live, and now—clearly can be very different elsewhere or in 1960s or whatever—unless the teens live close enough to get themselves to one another’s home, or are already driving, it takes parental involvement (or an older person who can drive anyway)  to achieve a one-on-one date at a parental home.  

Most parents I know who are as worried about blankets etc as your ds’ girlfr Parents seem to be would be holding off on actively assisting a dd to have a one-on-one date at a home.  Instead Letting the kids get to know each other at school, school activities, maybe a double date to skate rink...

Obviously if the kids can walk, bike, subway to each other’s homes that would not apply.  

ETA: if the kids live near enough in such a way that they can completely initiate a oneoneone at each other’s home on their own —don’t need a ride or any help—then it seems odd to me that they are apparently trusted not to go to each other’s house while no adult is there at all—yet not to be alone together for even a second unsupervised. 

No. They have no way of getting to each other’s house where we live. But that doesn’t keep them (or any other of my kid’s friends) from making plans to go over each other’s house, or meet up at the school football game, or (this hasn’t happened yet, but it could come up) go see a movie at the theater. Don’t your kids do that? Like, leave aside the bf/gf thing for a moment - don’t they do that with their friends? Cook up some plan for a sleepover or to meet at some activity or to be at one of the houses for the day? I’m not understanding where the surprise is for you. 

It seems to me, as I said earlier, the mom and/or dad saw that the kids “liked” each other, probably figured it would be unproductive to try and forbid them from seeing each other (rightly, IMO) so, barring trying to put the kabosh on the relationship altogether, they figured the next-best strategy was to go to high-level monitoring and to proactively either see if I would cooperate with that plan or else they would probably not allow her over here. Actually, the first time she talked to me, I thought we had more in common in parenting philosophy than not. The homeschool families I have been around for almost twenty years are usually more conservative than the public school parents, so really, initially she seemed more similar to my hs friends’ standards than any of the public school parents I have met. But it got weirder when it was so emphasized. 

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Maybe this is an aside... I'm not sure how I'd feel about the parents and their forthrightness. Since they seem suspicious and anxious, obviously not good. But on the other hand, I honestly struggle with this. Like, ds has twice gone to sleepovers (coed, tons of kids, up all night sort of deals) where I didn't know the parents. I poked my head in with the adults and was like, hi, I'm mom, just checking in. Ds was clearly like, go away, you're so embarrassing. But good grief, I feel like I have to do THAT at least. But I didn't stick around or chat. Just sort of confirmed there were adults there and everything seemed kosher. But sometimes I'm like, gee, maybe I should be more forthright with these other parents. For one thing, when ds's theater exploded (child predator, crazy situation, such a long story) then I didn't know that many of them to be like, hey, we all need to talk about this. And also sometimes I think, gee, maybe I should know these other parents. When I introduce myself to boy moms at ballet, they always seem friendly, glad to meet you, but also SUPER awkward on some level. Though this could just be me being super awkward as a person.

So basically, I kind of admire that she was like, hi, we're the other parents. Less that she's apparently convinced your kid is out to deflower her kid under a throw blanket.

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9 minutes ago, Quill said:

No. They have no way of getting to each other’s house where we live. But that doesn’t keep them (or any other of my kid’s friends) from making plans to go over each other’s house, or meet up at the school football game, or (this hasn’t happened yet, but it could come up) go see a movie at the theater. Don’t your kids do that? Like, leave aside the bf/gf thing for a moment - don’t they do that with their friends? Cook up some plan for a sleepover or to meet at some activity or to be at one of the houses for the day?

 

Yes. 

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

I’m not understanding where the surprise is for you. 

 

Parents around here don’t tend to facilitate one on one dating right at the start. 

Even in some cases will back up from earlier freedoms as kids hit puberty.  For example Ds had a best friend girl across street who had a 5th wheel as her room.  When they were little they were allowed free access to it on their own. When she reached puberty they no longer did.  Not that they couldn’t have done what they wanted in woods or barn, but not the enticement of a private camper with bed. 

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

It seems to me, as I said earlier, the mom and/or dad saw that the kids “liked” each other, probably figured it would be unproductive to try and forbid them from seeing each other (rightly, IMO)

 

iMO

 

Forbidding seeing each other

does not equal

facilitating one-on-one dates at a parent House 

 

ymmv

 

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5 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Yes. 

 

Parents around here don’t tend to facilitate one on one dating right at the start. 

Even in some cases will back up from earlier freedoms as kids hit puberty.  For example Ds had a best friend girl across street who had a 5th wheel as her room.  When they were little they were allowed free access to it on their own. When she reached puberty they no longer did.  Not that they couldn’t have done what they wanted in woods or barn, but not the enticement of a private camper with bed. 

 

iMO

 

Forbidding seeing each other

does not equal

facilitating one-on-one dates at a parent House 

 

ymmv

 

I don’t see it the same way. I don’t think watching a movie over someone’s house is tremendously intimate. If kiddo said, “Hey we are making plans to watch a movie here this weekend and eat pizza, I can’t imagine saying, “Nope! That’s not going to happen/is too fast/is too date-like...” That would be so weird. I don’t generally say no to things unless they are outrageous. 

Honestly, from some of the reports I have heard about school dances, I think going to a dance puts a much higher gf/bf picture on it than a movie at our house would be. Some stuff that happens at school dances is mind-boggling. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t see it the same way. I don’t think watching a movie over someone’s house is tremendously intimate. If kiddo said, “Hey we are making plans to watch a movie here this weekend and eat pizza, I can’t imagine saying, “Nope! That’s not going to happen/is too fast/is too date-like...” That would be so weird. I don’t generally say no to things unless they are outrageous. 

Honestly, from some of the reports I have heard about school dances, I think going to a dance puts a much higher gf/bf picture on it than a movie at our house would be. Some stuff that happens at school dances is mind-boggling. 

 

Yep. School dances when I was a kid were wild- the kids found ways to have sex and get drunk on the campus before their parents picked them up. I saw that at orchestra parties, too. Orchestra!!

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We really don't know what else is going on in the mom's life that might be happening and it is bleeding into her nervousness and anxiety in THIS situation.

Yes, she sounds intense, especially to people who'd provide condoms to their kids. But if this girl is her oldest child, who is ONLY 14, I'd be inclined to cut her some slack, in the sense of assigning her motives/emotions, etc.

But like I said to begin...I'd tell her I couldn't logistically assure the kids would be 100% supervised. 

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This, I think meant to be funny, isn’t an exact picture of the high school relationship stages around here, but has some similarity in at least putting “meet parents” fairly well along in the stages.  They put dance toward end though and here going to a dance together could easily be step 3. 

“Meet parents and be together at parent house” tends to indicate to others a higher level seriousness than hoco—no matter what happens.  It’s also easier around here to break up after just hoco dating than after meet the parents level. 

 

Step one and two were about checking out their social media...

“Step Three: Walk Them to their Classes

Step Four: Group Dates

   Group dates are a great way to get to know your significant other. One on one dates can be stressful for a new couple, so group dates provide a more relaxed atmosphere.  They also allow the person you are dating to get to know your friends better. 

Step Five: Put Your Status on Instagram

 

Step Six: Go on a Date Solo

Group dates are good to get a feel of the person at first, but going only on group dates means you aren’t willing to spend time alone with that person and that leads to there not being a relationship at all. “I think that solo dates help to strengthen your relationship because they let you get to know your significant better on a personal level.”

Step Seven: Meeting the Parents

   Meeting the parents of your girlfriend or boyfriend is an incredibly important step. If ...

..

.  One perk to meeting the parents is that it may open to door to be able to hang out at each others’ houses. 

. .  .”

 

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1 hour ago, unsinkable said:

We really don't know what else is going on in the mom's life that might be happening and it is bleeding into her nervousness and anxiety in THIS situation.

Yes, she sounds intense, especially to people who'd provide condoms to their kids. But if this girl is her oldest child, who is ONLY 14, I'd be inclined to cut her some slack, in the sense of assigning her motives/emotions, etc.

But like I said to begin...I'd tell her I couldn't logistically assure the kids would be 100% supervised. 

 

That's a good point. We have no idea why the girl's parents are so worried. Maybe the mom got pregnant at 14 and she's scared to death that her dd will make the same mistake she made. Maybe she was date raped when she was in high school. Or maybe something is going on in the family's life right now and they are at the point where they can't stand the thought of even one more thing going wrong, so they are being ultra-protective of their dd. We have no idea. 

Realistically, the kids probably won't date for too long, anyway, and if they do, the parents will probably grow to like and trust Quill's son fairly quickly, so hopefully they will start to loosen the reins a little bit. And I agree with unsinkable that the mom needs to realize that Quill can't assure 100% supervision. It's just not realistic. If Quill is home when the kids are there and the kids are always in common areas of the house and they're not cuddling under blankets or going out into the woods together, I would hope that would eventually be good enough for the girl's parents. If not, Quill will have to decide whether or not she wants to continue the constant supervision. 

 

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22 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

She can't chaperone them forever!  I'd chaperone till the dance was done, then be having a heart to heart with son about the importance of 'fit' in a relationship.

 

Technically, Quill doesn’t have to chaperone them now, either — it sounds like the girl’s parents are perfectly willing to do it, so if it’s too much of a nuisance for Quill, she can change her mind about wanting the kids to split their time 50/50 between the two houses and let the girl’s parents deal with the supervision. 

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6 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t see it the same way. I don’t think watching a movie over someone’s house is tremendously intimate. If kiddo said, “Hey we are making plans to watch a movie here this weekend and eat pizza, I can’t imagine saying, “Nope! That’s not going to happen/is too fast/is too date-like...” That would be so weird. I don’t generally say no to things unless they are outrageous. 

Honestly, from some of the reports I have heard about school dances, I think going to a dance puts a much higher gf/bf picture on it than a movie at our house would be. Some stuff that happens at school dances is mind-boggling. 

 

I think it just depends on the culture. Growing up, I didn’t know anyone who had a boyfriend or girlfriend over to their house during high school, and some of the couples ended up eventually marrying. This would have been seen as a pretty serious step and the only people I knew doing it were in college. Perhaps it was because houses were generally smaller and families bigger. Between sports, music, plays, dances, church youth groups, community events, etc., there were events almost every weekend where kids who were dating could hang out together. 

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1 minute ago, Frances said:

I think it just depends on the culture. Growing up, I didn’t know anyone who had a boyfriend or girlfriend over to their house during high school, and some of the couples ended up eventually marrying. This would have been seen as a pretty serious step and the only people I knew doing it were in college. Perhaps it was because houses were generally smaller and families bigger. Between sports, music, plays, dances, church youth groups, community events, etc., there were events almost every weekend where kids who were dating could hang out together. 

 

Thanks for expressing that.

It’s part of what I was trying to get across before.  

Not that pizza and movie at home is going farther in a sex direction than snogging at a dance, but that in the area I am currently living in, a one-on-one date at a parental home is seen as being quite far along in relationship seriousness.   

It’s not just romantically going to a school event together. but a parent sanctioned Going Together.   Testing out if there’s marriage potential. Especially for girls who are likely to marry right at the end of high school.

I hope that in Quill’s son’s case both families understand dates at a parental home as no big deal, and that there aren’t major misconceptions or cultural differences in understanding. 

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13 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Quill’s level of supervision is appropriate and I really disliked my teens dating. Was not fun for me one bit. I was usually the stricter parent. 

It was important to me that my kids get through high school without making me a grandma so I did monitor and supervise but at some point you have to let it go and trust. They will make their own decisions, not all good, and there is a limit to parental control. 

Yes, kids can do stuff in the movies. Yes, they can step out for a walk and do stuff. But if my kids who have been raised with our values and are generally thoughtful and cautious people are going to have sex in a neighborhood movie theater where they know half the people there- well there is no supervising that level of rebellion. If they are going to have sex while I walk out to get the mail and chat with a neighbor for a few minutes well then I am in a losing battle and they are going to find a way. Yes, reasonable supervision, but at some point you have to let go. Treating them like they are just hormones that will have sex the first little chance they get is no way to treat someone you want an ongoing relationship with.

The “how did it go?” would get all over me. I was so glad when my kids went to college and had relationships that didn’t involve me. I liked meeting their girlfriends for dinner but that was the end of my involvement. I don’t want to chat with the parents or text or call. It is not my relationship. I don’t want to date! Some of the parents of some of the girls my kids dated wore me out. I understand it is part of teen dating to know the other parents but for my adult kids meeting the other parents at the rehearsal dinner works for me. Lol.

This I agree with. 

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Wow. This just gets more and more convoluted to me. 

All this angst between parents would end before it started in my house. Btdt. 

I don’t much care why the other parents rules are whatever they are, or whether I agree or not. How I run my house and what our family dynamics are don’t get  changed just because some other mom’s son is attracted to my daughter. And under 16 is a hearty hell no to dating in my house. I’m not interested in my kids practicing relationships in this manner or stage of development. Imnsho, they just flat out are not developmentally ready for all the many ways this can twist them up, much less on how to get untwisted.

I am pretty sure my kids would have prepped me in advance about this situation and we would have discussed our expectations and what kind of choices that leaves her if she wants to keep seeing him. And frankly, what my concerns would be about hanging out with that family all the time. When another mom had called me like this, I calmly and respectfully said our family tends to spend a lot of time together anyways, so while I’m not terribly worried about scandalous time together due to many younger siblings and a smallish home, I’m not babysitting or arranging play dates at this point of their development either.  I think they should stick to hanging out together socially when under 16. Over 16? I would have serious talks with my kid about personal responsibilities and how if someone tells you they can’t be trusted - believe them. If this mom tells you that she doesn’t think they can be trusted to not have sexual activities under a cozy blanket during a family movie night? Or go for a walk outside without unbridaled passion overwhelming them — Why are you not believing her?!  Either it’s true and I wouldn’t want to have any part of that for my kid or it’s not true and that family has a crap ton of drama they want to be dumping on your house. I’d pass on that too with best regards to their poor kid and zero desire to let my kid think that’s an acceptable relationship.

Seriously. When people tell you who they are - believe them.  She told you a lot about who they are in that call. Believe her.  Sit daughter down and have a sincere discussion about rational and respectful relationship perspectives and how This does or does not fit that by your family standard.  BEFORE she develops stronger feelings for him. It may not change her feelings, but talk needs to happen.

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59 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Wow. This just gets more and more convoluted to me. 

All this angst between parents would end before it started in my house. Btdt. 

I don’t much care why the other parents rules are whatever they are, or whether I agree or not. How I run my house and what our family dynamics are don’t get  changed just because some other mom’s son is attracted to my daughter. And under 16 is a hearty hell no to dating in my house. I’m not interested in my kids practicing relationships in this manner or stage of development. Imnsho, they just flat out are not developmentally ready for all the many ways this can twist them up, much less on how to get untwisted.

I am pretty sure my kids would have prepped me in advance about this situation and we would have discussed our expectations and what kind of choices that leaves her if she wants to keep seeing him. And frankly, what my concerns would be about hanging out with that family all the time. When another mom had called me like this, I calmly and respectfully said our family tends to spend a lot of time together anyways, so while I’m not terribly worried about scandalous time together due to many younger siblings and a smallish home, I’m not babysitting or arranging play dates at this point of their development either.  I think they should stick to hanging out together socially when under 16. Over 16? I would have serious talks with my kid about personal responsibilities and how if someone tells you they can’t be trusted - believe them. If this mom tells you that she doesn’t think they can be trusted to not have sexual activities under a cozy blanket during a family movie night? Or go for a walk outside without unbridaled passion overwhelming them — Why are you not believing her?!  Either it’s true and I wouldn’t want to have any part of that for my kid or it’s not true and that family has a crap ton of drama they want to be dumping on your house. I’d pass on that too with best regards to their poor kid and zero desire to let my kid think that’s an acceptable relationship.

Seriously. When people tell you who they are - believe them.  She told you a lot about who they are in that call. Believe her.  Sit daughter down and have a sincere discussion about rational and respectful relationship perspectives and how This does or does not fit that by your family standard.  BEFORE she develops stronger feelings for him. It may not change her feelings, but talk needs to happen.

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I wouldn't assume that because she doesn't want her DD unsupervised with OP's son that there is a "ton of drama" in their house.  Just a slightly overprotective mother.  We don't know why she has that rule.  Maybe there's a reason that has to do with the kids.  More likely it's baggage from the mother's own past. Maybe it's a scary story she heard at church.  Ether way she has a right to decide.  It's one thing if Quill refuses to provide that kind of supervision.  It's another thing to sit down with another parent's 14 year old daughter and discuss how her parents family standard isn't respectful. 

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4 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I wouldn't assume that because she doesn't want her DD unsupervised with OP's son that there is a "ton of drama" in their house.  Just a slightly overprotective mother.  We don't know why she has that rule.  Maybe there's a reason that has to do with the kids.  More likely it's baggage from the mother's own past. Maybe it's a scary story she heard at church.  Ether way she has a right to decide.  It's one thing if Quill refuses to provide that kind of supervision.  It's another thing to sit down with another parent's 14 year old daughter and discuss how her parents family standard isn't respectful. 

 

I think Murphy just confused the children’s genders and wrote post as if Quill has the girl, the other family the boy.   The idea would be for Quill to speak with her own son.  As I would understand it.  

 

 

As with the thread recently where a seeming stalker seemed to turn out probably not as bad as it at first seemed.  The situation here may be quite innocent and just an anxious parent.

 

 

But I basically agree with Murphy—

I don’t know what’s going on, Quill has chosen not to disclose what she knows .  my idea that the girl might not be neurotypical with the parents concerned about impulse control was shot down. ...  as well as that it seemed weird to have parents raising the level of emotional intimacy and expectation by turning it into one on one dating at a parental home right off the bat didn’t seem to be something that concerned Quill for mores and norms in her area.  

but those feelings and speculations on my part  came from a sense that there’s something off  

 

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17 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I wouldn't assume that because she doesn't want her DD unsupervised with OP's son that there is a "ton of drama" in their house.  Just a slightly overprotective mother.  We don't know why she has that rule.  Maybe there's a reason that has to do with the kids.  More likely it's baggage from the mother's own past. Maybe it's a scary story she heard at church.  Ether way she has a right to decide.  It's one thing if Quill refuses to provide that kind of supervision.  It's another thing to sit down with another parent's 14 year old daughter and discuss how her parents family standard isn't respectful. 


Both parents can do whatever they want for whatever reasons they have but no, I will teach my kids what healthy relationship boundaries are and how some of that stuff imo just isn’t.   I would not talk to the other parent or their kid about it - but I’m going to talk to mine.  I’m going to tell my daughters that if a guy says he just can’t be alone with her or even sit under a blanket with her bc well he may not be able to control himself - well that’s good to know and she should believe him and find a man with some self control.  I’m going to tell my sons that we expect self control from them and if someone thinks their daughter can’t handle a normal date with him? BELIEVE them and find another girl. Eta, and you can switch any of those genders around and my answer would be the same. To me this has nothing to do with whether Quills kid is the big or the girl.

I’ve had these conversations about healthy relationships and dealing with parents and for the love of - when flags go up and people tell you who they are, for whatever reason or none - please try to believe them.  No judgement required.  They may have completely valid and good cause for who they are - but that doesn’t obligate us to join them on that bandwagon. 

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Maybe these parents are just really new to this stuff and trying to dot every "i" and cross every "t."

When my son was a little younger (newly-minted teen), some of his friends' moms told me that I intimidated them a bit when we first met. Why? Well, I had older kids and was self-assured (ha!) and confident (ha!ha!) in my decision-making regarding DS. While they were fretting over every outing/get-together/sleep-over, I was just lounging in the corner, waiting for them to hash out all of the cell-phone rules, lights-out rules, calling girls rules, etc. I'd just sip my coffee and scan through my phone til they were finished making allllll those rules. After a few times, they all  became less control-freaky and the kids were able to chill out and have fun together.

My kids have always had very few rules - it was just too much work to micromanage every flipping thing. Life's short and that's not where I wanted to spend it. It's pretty hilarious, actually... because my kids are the most rule-following, center-of-the-line sorts of people. DH and I are in constant amazement at this and we regularly warn them about the reality of their own children someday (whom we expect to be wild because their parents will be so clueless!). 😂

So, maybe when they came to the door, asking "how it went" all anxiously... it has less to do with the fact that they don't trust Quill's judgment and more to do with the fact that they're still in that confusing, fresh, anxiety-ridden phase of Life with Teenagers Who Want to Leave the House and Meet/Greet Teens of the Opposite Sex.

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Whatever works for you, but I would be very up-front with the teen's parents about what I will and won't supervise.  If that means their kid isn't allowed over your house, so be it.

My eldest just turned 13, and I consider everything fair game if I want to look at it.  I am not sure how that will evolve over the future years, but it will depend on how my kids' maturity evolves.

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8 hours ago, Pen said:

 

Thanks for expressing that.

It’s part of what I was trying to get across before.  

Not that pizza and movie at home is going farther in a sex direction than snogging at a dance, but that in the area I am currently living in, a one-on-one date at a parental home is seen as being quite far along in relationship seriousness.   

It’s not just romantically going to a school event together. but a parent sanctioned Going Together.   Testing out if there’s marriage potential. Especially for girls who are likely to marry right at the end of high school.

I hope that in Quill’s son’s case both families understand dates at a parental home as no big deal, and that there aren’t major misconceptions or cultural differences in understanding. 

Yes that is very completely different from my experiences, both growing up and now, as an adult, in this region. Going over someone’s house for a few hours is not viewed as some big, intimate step. My older son had girls over for dinner several times, though those relationships didn’t last for more than a few months. 

Testing out if there’s marriage potential?! That’s completely laughable! 

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7 hours ago, Katy said:

 

I couldn't disagree more.  I wouldn't assume that because she doesn't want her DD unsupervised with OP's son that there is a "ton of drama" in their house.  Just a slightly overprotective mother.  We don't know why she has that rule.  Maybe there's a reason that has to do with the kids.  More likely it's baggage from the mother's own past. Maybe it's a scary story she heard at church.  Ether way she has a right to decide.  It's one thing if Quill refuses to provide that kind of supervision.  It's another thing to sit down with another parent's 14 year old daughter and discuss how her parents family standard isn't respectful. 

Yes; it’s not a ton of drama. It’s not a big, giant deal. In my OP, I even said I was mulling over the larger points of privacy; it’s not an enormous big deal to me that the parents are being so particular. I said it was annoying. It is. But it’s not making me crazy. It’s just getting on my nerves. In the grand scheme of things, if they stay a couple much beyond the dance, I will be surprised. 

 

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7 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I think Murphy just confused the children’s genders and wrote post as if Quill has the girl, the other family the boy.   The idea would be for Quill to speak with her own son.  As I would understand it.  

 

 

As with the thread recently where a seeming stalker seemed to turn out probably not as bad as it at first seemed.  The situation here may be quite innocent and just an anxious parent.

 

 

But I basically agree with Murphy—

I don’t know what’s going on, Quill has chosen not to disclose what she knows .  my idea that the girl might not be neurotypical with the parents concerned about impulse control was shot down. ...  as well as that it seemed weird to have parents raising the level of emotional intimacy and expectation by turning it into one on one dating at a parental home right off the bat didn’t seem to be something that concerned Quill for mores and norms in her area.  

but those feelings and speculations on my part  came from a sense that there’s something off  

 

The main detail I have left out are things the dad said that I do not agree with about teens and right to privacy. 

I sort of regret mentioning it at all. I wanted to talk about teens and right to privacy. I have wondered if I am giving too much autonomy, but then I don’t agree with those parents, either. 

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6 hours ago, easypeasy said:

Maybe these parents are just really new to this stuff and trying to dot every "i" and cross every "t."

When my son was a little younger (newly-minted teen), some of his friends' moms told me that I intimidated them a bit when we first met. Why? Well, I had older kids and was self-assured (ha!) and confident (ha!ha!) in my decision-making regarding DS. While they were fretting over every outing/get-together/sleep-over, I was just lounging in the corner, waiting for them to hash out all of the cell-phone rules, lights-out rules, calling girls rules, etc. I'd just sip my coffee and scan through my phone til they were finished making allllll those rules. After a few times, they all  became less control-freaky and the kids were able to chill out and have fun together.

My kids have always had very few rules - it was just too much work to micromanage every flipping thing. Life's short and that's not where I wanted to spend it. It's pretty hilarious, actually... because my kids are the most rule-following, center-of-the-line sorts of people. DH and I are in constant amazement at this and we regularly warn them about the reality of their own children someday (whom we expect to be wild because their parents will be so clueless!). 😂

So, maybe when they came to the door, asking "how it went" all anxiously... it has less to do with the fact that they don't trust Quill's judgment and more to do with the fact that they're still in that confusing, fresh, anxiety-ridden phase of Life with Teenagers Who Want to Leave the House and Meet/Greet Teens of the Opposite Sex.

What a great post! Thanks! 

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Wow, you guys with lots of activities on the weekends for kids to hang out together must live in larger towns than ours! I guess the homeschooled kids could go to the Friday night football games, but I haven't met any with any interest in doing so. All other potential activities here (putt-putt, bowling, movies, laser tag, escape room, roller skating, coffee shops, frozen yogurt, etc) are expensive or boring (hanging out at the small mall or Walmart) plus at 14/15 sometimes 16, you still need someone to drive you around. Many city parks are changing their hours to close at sundown, so now that is about 7:15 pm. It is very hot and humid here in the spring/summer/fall with lots of mosquitoes, so outside activities are usually limited to before 9:30 am (at the latest!). So, usually hanging out at someone's house is the most reasonable option for teens without unlimited funds. We regularly had teen game/movie nights because in our small town, there is not much to do.  So, here, at least, hanging out together at one house with just one person is not viewed as an escalation of the dating game/prelude to marriage. 

That said, we do have some of the 'courting' culture here with an amazing set of rules/regulations that I've started learning about. 

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3 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes that is very completely different from my experiences, both growing up and now, as an adult, in this region. Going over someone’s house for a few hours is not viewed as some big, intimate step. My older son had girls over for dinner several times, though those relationships didn’t last for more than a few months. 

Testing out if there’s marriage potential?! That’s completely laughable! 

 

It’s interesting how different things can be in different places!

Here, one on one dating at a parental home is a bigger step...    like level 7 ish in that jokey thing on modern high school dating...  

It’s not as significant as a 28yo who’s living on his own specially traveling back to hometown to have his gf meet his parents (or in your area is that also not of significance?) — but it’s a significant leveling up compared to hanging together at school and school events   And breaking up is likely to have more hurt for the dumped person after the home one on one dating level 

for most, though, once that level were reached, your level of supervision, not the girl’s family way,  would be average to strict.

(differences for EO, LDS, Islamic, etc, dc probably though!) 

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2 hours ago, Bambam said:

Wow, you guys with lots of activities on the weekends for kids to hang out together must live in larger towns than ours! I guess the homeschooled kids could go to the Friday night football games, but I haven't met any with any interest in doing so. All other potential activities here (putt-putt, bowling, movies, laser tag, escape room, roller skating, coffee shops, frozen yogurt, etc) are expensive or boring (hanging out at the small mall or Walmart) plus at 14/15 sometimes 16, you still need someone to drive you around. Many city parks are changing their hours to close at sundown, so now that is about 7:15 pm. It is very hot and humid here in the spring/summer/fall with lots of mosquitoes, so outside activities are usually limited to before 9:30 am (at the latest!). So, usually hanging out at someone's house is the most reasonable option for teens without unlimited funds. We regularly had teen game/movie nights because in our small town, there is not much to do.  So, here, at least, hanging out together at one house with just one person is not viewed as an escalation of the dating game/prelude to marriage. 

That said, we do have some of the 'courting' culture here with an amazing set of rules/regulations that I've started learning about. 

 

For clarity, my posts on situation in my area related to kids going to high school PS, as my Ds is now doing, and I think as quill ‘s son and gf do. 

For homeschoolers, the home may still take the place of the brick and mortar school as a physical place to socialize.  

For the brick and mortar schoolers, school provides at least around 7 hours daily with other kids, which might be arranged by dc for having classes with and sitting next to bf/gf  — or at least meetings between classes.   Plus most weeks there’s at least one and often more than one sport event (like locally in fall season, both a football and volleyball game plus cross country; after school activities (music, robotics, ffa, volunteering...)      So the dc could easily be together more than 40 hours during week at the brick and mortar school.   50+ pretty easily if they were on same school bus or both went out for same activity like XC or band. 

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4 hours ago, Quill said:

The main detail I have left out are things the dad said that I do not agree with about teens and right to privacy. 

I sort of regret mentioning it at all. I wanted to talk about teens and right to privacy. I have wondered if I am giving too much autonomy, but then I don’t agree with those parents, either. 

 

You're not giving them too much privacy.  You're raising an adult who you want to be independent and autonomous and to be responsible enough to raise his own family one day.  That's what you want and you're doing a great job doing it.

These parents are either in the panic of first child growing up too fast OR they're fundamentalists who are afraid the courtship model doesn't work so instead allowing their daughter to date many guys (with perfect supervision) more like the ideal of the 1950's seems like what God wants them to do.  Either way we don't know (yet) and all of their choices have much more to do with them and the sorts of values they want to impose on their daughter than it does raising someone they trust to make responsible decisions for herself.  At least not yet.

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2 hours ago, Bambam said:

Wow, you guys with lots of activities on the weekends for kids to hang out together must live in larger towns than ours! I guess the homeschooled kids could go to the Friday night football games, but I haven't met any with any interest in doing so. All other potential activities here (putt-putt, bowling, movies, laser tag, escape room, roller skating, coffee shops, frozen yogurt, etc) are expensive or boring (hanging out at the small mall or Walmart) plus at 14/15 sometimes 16, you still need someone to drive you around. Many city parks are changing their hours to close at sundown, so now that is about 7:15 pm. It is very hot and humid here in the spring/summer/fall with lots of mosquitoes, so outside activities are usually limited to before 9:30 am (at the latest!). So, usually hanging out at someone's house is the most reasonable option for teens without unlimited funds. We regularly had teen game/movie nights because in our small town, there is not much to do.  So, here, at least, hanging out together at one house with just one person is not viewed as an escalation of the dating game/prelude to marriage. 

That said, we do have some of the 'courting' culture here with an amazing set of rules/regulations that I've started learning about. 

Growing up in a very small town eons ago, it was actually exactly the opposite. Everything revolved around churches, school, and community events, so not much need to spend money to go out on dates or gather at houses (and again, I think it was also influenced by houses generally being smaller and families much larger). My school was rural (covered three small towns and outlying rural areas), but provided extensive bussing to all school activities for both spectators and participants. Very few kids had cars and parents rarely had to drive them anywhere for school related activities (I only remember riding home with my parents after plays, concerts, and sporting events because they had come to watch. But a school bus was always available). If there wasn’t a school activity on the weekend, we generally didn’t see our friends from the other towns until school on Monday.

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1 hour ago, Frances said:

Growing up in a very small town eons ago, it was actually exactly the opposite. Everything revolved around churches, school, and community events, so not much need to spend money to go out on dates or gather at houses (and again, I think it was also influenced by houses generally being smaller and families much larger). My school was rural (covered three small towns and outlying rural areas), but provided extensive bussing to all school activities for both spectators and participants. Very few kids had cars and parents rarely had to drive them anywhere for school related activities (I only remember riding home with my parents after plays, concerts, and sporting events because they had come to watch. But a school bus was always available). If there wasn’t a school activity on the weekend, we generally didn’t see our friends from the other towns until school on Monday.

 

I guess where I live now is somewhat similar to where you grew up!

But when I went to high school in NYC, there was also not all that much one-on-one dating at age 14 at parental homes either.   Kids could take subway and busses and walk to public events. 

Nor where/when I lived in California either as best I can recall.  A brief pop in by a date on way to a dance, yes. Or a group get together at a home before or after a dance yes.  

Where I am now there are 3 homecomings per year and Freshman to Senior all can go.  

When I was in high school in CA, most important school dances like homecoming tended to be for juniors and seniors (or even if allowed for younger, tended to be driving age kids who went). 

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@Quill —. I’m curious: what are your son and his gf going to wear to hoco? Corsage? And will you or the other family do the driving or both?

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6 hours ago, Quill said:

The main detail I have left out are things the dad said that I do not agree with about teens and right to privacy. 

I sort of regret mentioning it at all. I wanted to talk about teens and right to privacy. I have wondered if I am giving too much autonomy, but then I don’t agree with those parents, either. 

 

I know I am influenced by local culture, but to me “privacy” for teens is as much related to how much they manage their own dating as it is to cell phone, room, and backpack checks. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

For clarity, my posts on situation in my area related to kids going to high school PS, as my Ds is now doing, and I think as quill ‘s son and gf do. 

For homeschoolers, the home may still take the place of the brick and mortar school as a physical place to socialize.  

For the brick and mortar schoolers, school provides at least around 7 hours daily with other kids, which might be arranged by dc for having classes with and sitting next to bf/gf  — or at least meetings between classes.   Plus most weeks there’s at least one and often more than one sport event (like locally in fall season, both a football and volleyball game plus cross country; after school activities (music, robotics, ffa, volunteering...)      So the dc could easily be together more than 40 hours during week at the brick and mortar school.   50+ pretty easily if they were on same school bus or both went out for same activity like XC or band. 

 

Or, BOTH kids are heavily involved in PS activities, are in different classes in a school of 2000+ kids, and only see each other one on one for 30-180 minutes on weekends. LOL. Being in the same school doesn't mean constant togetherness. There are four lunches at DDs school. They have "one lunch" once a week to facilitate club meetings. DD and her 'friend' are both in fall sports that practice or have games 3-4 days week. These kids are B-U-S-Y. Even if you take the same classes, you may not have them during the same term or period and requests of that nature are not allowed.

Edited by Sneezyone
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32 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Or, BOTH kids are heavily involved in PS activities, are in different classes in a school of 2000+ kids, and only see each other one on one for 30-180 minutes on weekends. LOL. Being in the same school doesn't mean constant togetherness. There are four lunches at DDs school. They have "one lunch" once a week to facilitate club meetings. DD and her 'friend' are both in fall sports that practice or have games 3-4 days week. These kids are B-U-S-Y. Even if you take the same classes, you may not have them during the same term or period and requests of that nature are not allowed.

 

 🙂

I was not describing your dd’s school.   

 

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34 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 🙂

I was not describing your dd’s school.   

 

 

No, you weren't but I don't think it's typical for students to be together all day at school in most high schools. Your choice of class periods isn't usually self-determined. Comprehensive high schools in most of America operate with multiple lunch periods, class periods, and different schedules. Being in the same building doesn't guarantee "together time". There are less than 8 minutes between classes and lunch is 30 minutes or less.

ETA: In my graduating class 25 years ago we had 400 people in my graduating class. This was a semi-rural, suburban district in NW Arkansas (FFA, spit cups in class, smoking courtyard). No, we didn't get to choose our schedules to meet with friends. No, we didn't have lots of time between class periods, and no, we did not have 7 hrs a day with our significant others. I never saw my BF the whole time. He was actually at a different campus (vocational) for most of the day. This isn't so much about you, Pen, as I don't want HS parents to have some outsize view of the social opportunities that PS, HS offers. We had a lot less supervision, in fact we had an open campus and could go to fast food places for lunch, than my DDs school today.

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Sorry if this has already been said (too many pages to read), but as the mom of girls who may still be 13 when they are eligible to go to a high school homecoming dance, I think it's fair to say that different parents can legitimately have different rules without being jerks.

For one thing, sexist or not, a girl has different risks than a boy.  Let's just be honest about that.  Quill, when your daughter was 13, were you totally cool and nonchalant when she went off alone, unsupervised, with a boy who was attracted to her?

Secondly, it is possible the girl in question has shown herself capable of concerning behavior.  I have known girls who had sex, quite wilingly, as young as 11 years old.  If I knew that about my daughter, I would probably be more protective than if I knew her as a typical "sex is gross" tween/young teen.

Thing is, we don't know what we don't know.  I would respect the parents' rules by either following them or declining to knowingly provide an opportunity for breaking them.

This could be handled without being ridiculous.  If you talk to your son and tell him you all need to respect their rules, then you all can plan a situation where they can do their thing either in separate rooms (getting ready or whatever) or together in the same general area with you, without you actually breathing down their necks.  For example, you could be checking your emails in the corner or washing the dishes while still being within eyesight/earshot.  It shouldn't bother them because (a) she is used to it and (b) he wasn't planning on doing anything you shouldn't know about anyway.

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

I know I am influenced by local culture, but to me “privacy” for teens is as much related to how much they manage their own dating as it is to cell phone, room, and backpack checks. 🙂

Cell phone, room and backpack checks were part of what the dad told me about that I disagreed with. (I disagreed internally, as in for my own conscience with my own kids.) But I did wonder if I should not be so free as I am on those things. 

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

@Quill —. I’m curious: what are your son and his gf going to wear to hoco? Corsage? And will you or the other family do the driving or both?

I don’t know what she is wearing yet. Ds will wear black slacks, a button-down shirt, dress shoes, belt and a tie that compliments her dress color. I will go with ds to the local florist for a corsage, but ds will pay for it. Driving details are not arranged yet, but what I did with my other kids was, made a dinner for them at my house (usually, some friends were here, too), then drove them to the dance. Other parents picked up their own kids from the dance. 

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37 minutes ago, SKL said:

Sorry if this has already been said (too many pages to read), but as the mom of girls who may still be 13 when they are eligible to go to a high school homecoming dance, I think it's fair to say that different parents can legitimately have different rules without being jerks.

For one thing, sexist or not, a girl has different risks than a boy.  Let's just be honest about that.  Quill, when your daughter was 13, were you totally cool and nonchalant when she went off alone, unsupervised, with a boy who was attracted to her?

Secondly, it is possible the girl in question has shown herself capable of concerning behavior.  I have known girls who had sex, quite wilingly, as young as 11 years old.  If I knew that about my daughter, I would probably be more protective than if I knew her as a typical "sex is gross" tween/young teen.

Thing is, we don't know what we don't know.  I would respect the parents' rules by either following them or declining to knowingly provide an opportunity for breaking them.

This could be handled without being ridiculous.  If you talk to your son and tell him you all need to respect their rules, then you all can plan a situation where they can do their thing either in separate rooms (getting ready or whatever) or together in the same general area with you, without you actually breathing down their necks.  For example, you could be checking your emails in the corner or washing the dishes while still being within eyesight/earshot.  It shouldn't bother them because (a) she is used to it and (b) he wasn't planning on doing anything you shouldn't know about anyway.

Well, when my dd was 14, I had an unusual situation, because she had a bf, whom I knew extremely well because he was homeschooled, and I knew his family extremely well. She did not date anyone else. She is still in a relationship with this same guy. So I didn’t have the experience of her going off unsupervised or visiting boys whose family I didn’t know. I never had the need to discuss parameters of behavior with the parents because the parents were my own friends whom I had known for years. I trusted that their standards were similar to my own. So I didn’t have an obstacle with her. 

Your last paragraph, I agree with. It can certainly be handled without ridiculousness. 

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