Anyoneone dealing with PTSD/trauma personally?

[bethben]

I have been diagnosed with PTSD/trauma by my counselor.  There are events in my life that when I talk about I get short of breath, my heart races, and I get nightmares the day I talk about it.  I have a son that has been through some major surgeries but my triggers are from my adopted daughter.  The two may be related. The stress of the first made me vulnerable to the stress of the second?  My counselor is trained in EMDR so there’s a good chance I can move past this.  My body is hyper like I’m drinking caffeine constantly (I don’t) and I have major sleep issues.  

I’m irritated that trauma -primary and secondary in parents is not mentioned when you adopt a child. They talk about issues the child may have but not issues the parent may develop.  All my daughter has to do is argue with me about something I’ve told her to do/ not to do and my heart races and I have to do breathing excercise to calm down.  We’ve done some things to make sure I’m not alone with her and DH is always around but I hate that my life has become this.  

Anybody else btdt?  What worked for you?

[Lanny]

I am not sure what you mean by "my counselor" or "EMDR".    What degrees and what experience with P.T.S.D. patients does your "Counselor" have?

I have had severe P.T.S.D. for many years. Based on DSM - III- R which is quite old now. 309.89 

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/ptsd/

I believe that a Ph.D. Psychologist, with a lot of experience with P.T.S.D. patients, or a Psychiatrist with that experience, could fairly quickly determine whether or not you have the combination of factors that are required to confirm a diagnosis of P.T.S.D.  

Whether or not you have P.T.S.D., I hope that you can learn how to cope with the situation you are in now. Take it one day at a time!

[gardenmom5]

I'm currently doing emdr for cptsd.  yes, it works.

the reason you are feeling hyper all the time is what stress does to your adrenal glands.  it triggers your "fight or flight" mode.  I remember when I first learned about that, and people talk about how "it's only when something happens.  it's not always this way."  and I'm thinking - I'm ALWAYS like that!

there are many adrenal support supplements on the market.  gaia makes a good one (I can't have due to a eugenol allergy), but there are others.  I make up my own custom 'cocktail' to get what works for me.  Mine was based on integrative therapeutics cortisol manager.  I don't like how the phosphyatidylserine makes me feel.

I would also strongly suggest a very good b-complex.  stress uses b-vitamins.  I use emerald labs.  I had used 2x the dose of a drug store brand for years.  I only noticed it was helping when I hadn't used it for at least a week.   when I started with the emerald labs - after three/four days?  I felt like someone had turned on a light switch.

[gardenmom5]

1 minute ago, Lanny said:

I am not sure what you mean by "my counselor" or "EMDR".    What degrees and what experience with P.T.S.D. patients does your "Counselor" have?

I have had severe P.T.S.D. for many years. Based on DSM - III- R which is quite old now. 309.89 

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/ptsd/

I believe that a Ph.D. Psychologist, with a lot of experience with P.T.S.D. patients, or a Psychiatrist with that experience, could fairly quickly determine whether or not you have the combination of factors that are required to confirm a diagnosis of P.T.S.D.  

Whether or not you have P.T.S.D., I hope that you can learn how to cope with the situation you are in now. Take it one day at a time!

EMDR - is eye movement desensitization regulation. it is an approved therapy for cptsd and ptsd.  it is very effective.

the psychological association is recognizing the tradition "ptsd" - from combat vets, really isn't the only one out there.  Cptsd,  - complex ptsd, or childhood ptsd - are very real.  it's caused by repeated trauma, where the victim doesn't feel safe.  when someone is emotionally abusing you over a prolonged period of time - I assure you - you don't fee safe.

[historically accurate]

I am looking for a counselor for me as I am caring for a child with PTSD. DD is starting EMDR this month. I would not be surprised if I end up with a diagnosis of PTSD from her trauma and diagnosis. I've felt that "itchy, caffeinated" feeling a lot lately. 

@gardenmom5 I've been looking into supplements for DD. She takes magnesium citrate currently before bed. Melatonin is not working for her. Would B-vitamins and adrenal supplements be good for a young teen to add? If so, morning or evening (ie: does it put you to sleep or just take off the edge)? Her psych just took her off of Prazocin because it was dropping her blood pressure too much, and immediately her sleep got worse. @bethben you may want to look into Prazocin for sleep. It's a blood pressure med that works wonders for nightmares and that "on high alert at all times" feeling. It's only through prescription. DD was sleeping better within 3 days of starting it. Unfortunately, even at the lowest dose her blood pressure dropped, but she is less than 100 pounds with lower blood pressure normally. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Just wanted to plug the emerald labs b complex.  I never felt so much better when taking another b.  Emerald Labs was night and day.  I saw a huge difference in a week. 

I know a few who have had great success to EMDR.  The one I know who didn’t was really open to it helpings s didn’t believe it would.  I wish you luck and hope it helps you. 

[gardenmom5]

Just now, beckyjo said:

I am looking for a counselor for me as I am caring for a child with PTSD. DD is starting EMDR this month. I would not be surprised if I end up with a diagnosis of PTSD from her trauma and diagnosis. I've felt that "itchy, caffeinated" feeling a lot lately. 

@gardenmom5 I've been looking into supplements for DD. She takes magnesium citrate currently before bed. Melatonin is not working for her. Would B-vitamins and adrenal supplements be good for a young teen to add? If so, morning or evening (ie: does it put you to sleep or just take off the edge)? Her psych just took her off of Prazocin because it was dropping her blood pressure too much, and immediately her sleep got worse. @bethben you may want to look into Prazocin for sleep. It's a blood pressure med that works wonders for nightmares and that "on high alert at all times" feeling. It's only through prescription. DD was sleeping better within 3 days of starting it. Unfortunately, even at the lowest dose her blood pressure dropped, but she is less than 100 pounds with lower blood pressure normally. 

upon directions of my son's ND- the dose was always split am/pm.

for his anxiety she put him on "600mg (jarrow or pure encapsulations) ashwagandha and 1 capsule of (pure encapsulations) bacopa monerii.  2x per day."  they support healthy cortisol.   I've also added l-theanine am or pm or both, and relora (at night).  I noticed a difference at half-dose within the first 10 days. (before we increased to the full dose.)  I took him off most of this with his last rx change. and.. we're having issues again.  like it worked better than the rx - but it wasn't enough.  so, we're working on it.

absolutely talk to your child's dr if she's on rx.

I give him the same dose as me for b-complex.  and have since before he hit 100lbs.  can safely be taken with rx.

[itsheresomewhere]

Beckyjo- my DS takes the b-healthy too.  It is part of her daily meds to help with anxiety.  It has helped her.

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Just wanted to plug the emerald labs b complex.  I never felt so much better when taking another b.  Emerald Labs was night and day.  I saw a huge difference in a week. 

I know a few who have had great success to EMDR.  The one I know who didn’t was really open to it helpings s didn’t believe it would.  I wish you luck and hope it helps you. 

they weren't open to it helping?  sorry, I'm not following you well.

 

one of the things I noticed, when going into the emotion of the memory and then look at the lights - you *really* have to hang onto that emotion.  you start looking at those lights and you immediately want to calm down.  but the longer I hold onto the emotion (which can be pretty darn unpleasant. and does have unpleasant after-effects.  I was screaming and sobbing in my car last time. I expect we'll spend more time on this area. indicative of how much is there.) - the more effective it is.

[itsheresomewhere]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

they weren't open to it helping?  sorry, I'm not following you well.

 

one of the things I noticed, when going into the emotion of the memory and then look at the lights - you *really* have to hang onto that emotion.  you start looking at those lights and you immediately want to calm down.  but the longer I hold onto the emotion (which can be pretty darn unpleasant. and does have unpleasant after-effects.  I was screaming and sobbing in my car last time. I expect we'll spend more time on this area. indicative of how much is there.) - the more effective it is.

They were this is not going to help/ why am I wasting my time/money going attitude.  They were really not open to help and I think his wife kind of forced him to go into therapy.  

[gardenmom5]

54 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

They were this is not going to help/ why am I wasting my time/money going attitude.  They were really not open to help and I think his wife kind of forced him to go into therapy.  

ah.  no, that's someone who isn't ready.

[PeterPan]

I know someone who did EMDR successfully. I think part of the reason it worked was because of the ability to help put back together fragments of memory. I used a counselor who was trained in both EMDR and TRE (and probably other techniques) and he had me do TRE. You might look into it, because it is something you can do on your own, in privacy. My ds has autism and has episodes that are incredibly stressful for us, maybe somewhat like what you've experienced. I usually end up needing to do TRE after those. So I learned it for dealing with trauma from my childhood and some near death experiences, but now I use it for maintenance to deal with the stress of ds. For reference, he has given me two concussions and can be very dangerous.

This is the video I used to learn it. The counselor was willing to have me do it with him, but I didn't feel comfortable with that. There is a training and certification and you can find someone to do it with. I did the exercises daily for about 40 days and did weekly or biweekly sessions to discuss how it was going. At this point my body has done it so much that it can just fall into it without much effort, which is helpful. I've had it release and do the trembling during cranial sacral and even after a massage. We just went on a cruise (ds and I) and ds had a dangerous day that I had to medicate him for. It's not the kind of stress you rationalize through, because it's physical and stored in your body and affecting your whole system. I just hurt all over, so I went and got a massage on the ship (they were running a "sale" haha) and it was trying to start and I was like no way. So after the girl left I just let it kick in and tremble and get out all that stress. Works for me, costs nothing, and can be done again and again. 

 

[bethben]

@PeterPan, thanks!  That looks like it will be helpful.  I am taking care of an adult son with multiple special needs and my daughter has prescription sedatives that we use when she rages.  She’s gotten physical with us also.  I am now wondering if we as a society are looking at orphan care correctly.  For some kids, I think the family atmosphere is too much for their emotional health.

[PeterPan]

53 minutes ago, bethben said:

 For some kids, I think the family atmosphere is too much for their emotional health.

You've got a complicated situation, because you're dealing with the genetics of the parents that landed the kids in care in the first place AND the question about how this looks long-term. I assume you're doing this, but it sounds like she needs a placement outside your home at some point. That's the hard, rubber meets the road stuff. As far as genetics, we found things on ds that were treatable that got us about an 80% improvement.

[gardenmom5]

@peterpan brings up a very good point/idea.  and something even those who don't want to (or are unable to) do outside therapy - can do this.

  yes - I've heard of the TRE-trembling.  I'm also familiar with yoga exercises focusing specifically on the psoas muscles.  (the theory that a lot of trauma memory is stored there)

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

You've got a complicated situation, because you're dealing with the genetics of the parents that landed the kids in care in the first place AND the question about how this looks long-term. I assume you're doing this, but it sounds like she needs a placement outside your home at some point. That's the hard, rubber meets the road stuff. As far as genetics, we found things on ds that were treatable that got us about an 80% improvement.

this.  they're just barely starting to understand the effects of epigenetics.  one experiment taught rats to be afraid of the smell of cherries.  their grandchildren were afraid of the smell of cherries - even though their parents had never been exposed to the smell of cherries - and had never been taught by their parents they should be afraid of the smell of cherries.

I'm wondering how much I might have passed on in my DNA...

[Pen]

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143127748/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_g-UyCb7RASRKT

is a book I’ve found especially helpful 

[PeterPan]

30 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

and something even those who don't want to (or are unable to) do outside therapy - can do this.

The other reason TRE is useful is because it does not have to be declarative memory (can be from things experienced before declarative memory) and does not require the person to revisit the trauma. So there are uses for EMDR and uses for TRE, and that's where a counselor sorts out what to use. I had trauma that was before declarative memory (generally age 3), and I had the effects of it and had heard the stories it had happened but didn't have a way to deal with it or even realize the consequences until we released it. I also had some near death experiences in college, etc. I'm a pretty boring person but for some reason I had a lot of trauma over the years, lol. Just in my case EMDR would not have been appropriate. It was miraculous for someone else I know.

30 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

one experiment taught rats to be afraid of the smell of cherries. 

I've read about that with holocaust victims. With my ds it was more basic, with methyls and easily treatable stuff. To me genetics is sort of the elephant in the room to get done with mental health.

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143127748/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_g-UyCb7RASRKT

is a book I’ve found especially helpful 

Yes, definitely a good one. I haven't read it because it came out after I did my reading of Levine and the others Van de Kolk's work is based on. But yeah, definitely an excellent recommend. Also Levine has a thin book "Healing Trauma" that has some helpful exercises including explanation of some tapping exercises that are easy to implement and helpful.

Some of it was kind of after the fact for me. The books explained why it could work, but you don't know for yourself till you do the techniques and see what happens. I had long-standing health problems (pain, constipation, etc.) just BOOM totally reverse. And other things. But it was so dramatic and clearly correlated with the TRE and Levine exercises. I kept pages of data on duration, intensity, body parts affected, what sensations and memories were brought to mind. It was really astonishing.

There were some things released I really needed the counselor to help me deal with. There's a task called "reframing" where you go back and walk through it again in your mind, making a better choice. The counselor's point was that when we're in fright/flight, we don't always realize all our OPTIONS. So even once we release the stress, there's this additional step of reframing and going back and saying ok I know what I could have done. And that's not every situation but some. Like I had dropped a barbell on my neck when I was lifting without a spotter, and I had trauma stored from that. I needed to go back then and learn what to do if you're dropping the weights! And for the incident where I nearly drowned, I needed to go back and go through it again in my mind (which took a counselor because that was pretty bad) and make another choice and realize I had choices. 

So anyways, it's not one or the other. It's bodywork plus the counselor. I only needed the counselor about 4-5 sessions but I did the TRE exercises every day during that time AND did mindfulness 3-4 times a day for maybe 10 minutes and the Levine (Healing Trauma) exercises. But do it the way that is comfortable for you. With the spaced counseling sessions I had a lot to discuss when I'd get in there.

[PeterPan]

47 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

the psoas muscles.  (the theory that a lot of trauma memory is stored there)

This is like way wacky info for the op, but when I did TRE it took a long time to make connections and work through body parts. The body decides what it is ready to release and it has it's own order and way. That's why I kept doing it every day, because it seemed like such a progression where you could see something different happening every day and see it moving up. So yes the psoas starts it, but that trauma can be lots of places. Those memories were stored in my arms and hands and neck and... The stuff from pre-declarative memory was probably the most freaky, very intense. It angers me now when I meet kids who are getting the blow-off for pre-declarative memory exposures to trauma and dangerous situations. So the kids get talk therapy and get told they're bad and aren't trying hard enough to be good. People just have no clue the effects of trauma during pre-declarative memory. Obviously if you can't talk about it or remember it it didn't happen, right? Well then stuff that released on my I know happened, because I've heard the stories. My body remembered. 

In other words, it would be interesting to take the adopted dc to a counselor and have them do the bodywork too and see what happens. Now you take someone like my dd and she can't do TRE because of her sensory hyper-sensitivity. So there are reasons to be careful and respect the dc, absolutely. 

[Pen]

 

Also:

The Instinct to Heal: Curing Depression, Anxiety and Stress Without Drugs and Without Talk Therapy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1594861587/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1EVyCb385ZE0J

 

 

And : 

Healing Without Freud or Prozac: Natural Approaches to Curing Stress, Anxiety and Depression https://www.amazon.com/dp/1447211464/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ECVyCbR9YES9C

 

I read the first one—it was where I originally learned of the existence of EMDR ...

have not read the second one. As it is newer, it may contain more new approaches 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

This is like way wacky info for the op, but when I did TRE it took a long time to make connections and work through body parts. The body decides what it is ready to release and it has it's own order and way. That's why I kept doing it every day, because it seemed like such a progression where you could see something different happening every day and see it moving up. So yes the psoas starts it, but that trauma can be lots of places. Those memories were stored in my arms and hands and neck and... The stuff from pre-declarative memory was probably the most freaky, very intense. It angers me now when I meet kids who are getting the blow-off for pre-declarative memory exposures to trauma and dangerous situations. So the kids get talk therapy and get told they're bad and aren't trying hard enough to be good. People just have no clue the effects of trauma during pre-declarative memory. Obviously if you can't talk about it or remember it it didn't happen, right? Well then stuff that released on my I know happened, because I've heard the stories. My body remembered. 

In other words, it would be interesting to take the adopted dc to a counselor and have them do the bodywork too and see what happens. Now you take someone like my dd and she can't do TRE because of her sensory hyper-sensitivity. So there are reasons to be careful and respect the dc, absolutely. 

when I was looking for a therapist - there was one who includes yoga as part of her thepay.  (don't remember if she did emdr or not.) - she had the audacity to go on maternity leave!

 

like most things - it's drop by drop, and not overnight.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Indigo Blue said:

Can I chime in for a second? I hope y'all don't mind because I've never been diagnosed with C-PTSD. But if you've read any of my posts, you know I've mentioned my experiences. I find Gardenmom's comment about storing trauma in muscles (psoas) very fascinating. I have such stiff, painful knotted muscles. It's chronic pain every day for the last six years or so. It's a part-time job to keep them rolled out and massaged at home each morning to keep them loose enough to walk normally. Now, this could be from physical abnormalities, for sure. In any case, I've been using CBD oil regularly for the past six or nine months. Slowly, slowly, I feel this is helping. I know CBD oil can treat anxiety. I'm not trying to treat anxiety, but just maybe it's down in there and I just don't realize it. I have days where I just don't feel emotionally well and then the next day I'm fine again. I do have social anxiety, possibly a result of those experiences. CBD oil can affect the central nervous system. Maybe in trying to treat muscle pain, I'm inadvertently treating more than I realize, if this makes sense. Massage therapist once told me my hips are extremely tight. I can feel it in my stride. It's like having muscles made of tight rubber bands. I have come a long way in this just by working at home and with the CBD oil. I just found this interesting and wanted to mention it.

extremely tight hips (so are mine) - sounds like psoas.  you can see they go from your lumbar spine, through the pelvis, to the top of the femur.  they tighten with stress.

 

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

Massage therapist once told me my hips are extremely tight. I can feel it in my stride.

It certainly would not hurt to try the TRE. I think, just in talking with friends, that people who haven't had those experiences don't usually find TRE to be this wow kind of thing. Like they do it and it's just a non-event. So if it's a something for you, I think you'll find it very obvious, if that makes sense. And it's not something that's harmful to do/try. If you had a known, significant event, some kind of known trauma (near death, assault, etc.) I'd encourage you to connect with a practitioner or counselor while doing it. But if you don't, you're probably good just to give it a whirl.

Having said that, it could also be your hip flexors. I got into a habit of taking really short steps and my hip flexers were tightening. The chiropractor pointed it out, so I started being more careful about my stride and doing long monster steps in the morning to stretch out the hip flexors. So if your massage therapist can't tell you what muscles are tight, you could try another person like a chiro and then google those muscles.

[Melissa in Australia]

Huge hugs

 I don't think I have PTSD form a child I had in my care, but I do have some sort of trauma transfer. I also have trauma form having to deal with the fallout of the placement failing and DHHS . I cannot go into details  but it was very very messy and very awful.It shattered me as a person. I feel like an extremely bitter person now

I tell everyone I know who is thinking of doing fostering/adoption to not do it. It will destroy your life.

[Rosie_0801]

6 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

Can I chime in for a second? I hope y'all don't mind because I've never been diagnosed with C-PTSD. 

 

Technically you can't be, because it's not in the DSM yet so officially doesn't exist.



I don't understand why people are diagnosed with PTSD when enduring current trauma. How is it Past if it is still happening? How can you heal something that is still in the process of breaking? It seems to my completely unqualified, but still experienced self, that treatment needs to be different for current and past trauma.

[bethben]

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Huge hugs

I tell everyone I know who is thinking of doing fostering/adoption to not do it. It will destroy your life.

I can’t disagree.  I had someone at church tell me she was adopting and wanted to know my story.  She has this really sweet family with six kids and they all seem to really care for each other.  I basically begged her to reconsider.  That the adoption agencies tell you how the child may have issues but they don’t tell you how that changes the very fabric of your family or your very life.  Then last Sunday, a enthusiastic special speaker got up and said everyone should adopt.  I really wanted to tell, “noooooo!!!!”   My DH told me before he spoke not to take what he says too literally and that I didn’t need to respond.  If anyone had asked me about adoption afterward I would have asked if they wanted me to be nice or honest.

 

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I don't understand why people are diagnosed with PTSD when enduring current trauma. How is it Past if it is still happening? How can you heal something that is still in the process of breaking? It seems to my completely unqualified, but still experienced self, that treatment needs to be different for current and past trauma.

My trauma/ptsd —the event that makes me short of breath, sets my heart racing, and gives me nightmares happened almost nine years ago so very much in the past.  I have weekly trauma that erupts due to the ongoing issues my dd brings that are mirroring that event along with new ones.  Just tonight I grabbed my 14 year old and left the house as my daughter created new destruction in her room because it was my fault she stole my ring.  I am unable to handle this type of event until I deal well with the past events.  I’m not totally sure I’ll be able to even after I get healing.  

[Rosie_0801]

26 minutes ago, bethben said:

My trauma/ptsd —the event that makes me short of breath, sets my heart racing, and gives me nightmares happened almost nine years ago so very much in the past.  I have weekly trauma that erupts due to the ongoing issues my dd brings that are mirroring that event along with new ones.  Just tonight I grabbed my 14 year old and left the house as my daughter created new destruction in her room because it was my fault she stole my ring.  I am unable to handle this type of event until I deal well with the past events.  I’m not totally sure I’ll be able to even after I get healing.  

 

I guess that's why the idea of C-PTSD is being developed.
It's like having a weakened emotional-immune system, isn't it?

I've only had success in eroding the ptsd-like stuff that isn't triggered by ongoing trauma.

[Kate in Arabia]

On 2/11/2019 at 8:47 PM, itsheresomewhere said:

Just wanted to plug the emerald labs b complex.  I never felt so much better when taking another b.  Emerald Labs was night and day.  I saw a huge difference in a week. 

 

 

I don't have experience with the issues under discussion here, but I have been diagnosed with a vit-b deficiency and just to say, I had near-immediate relief from my symptoms when I started taking the prescription supplements.. but some months later I switched to a health store supplement brand to try and save some money and my symptoms came back.. further research into it revealed that some brands use synthetic sources (I assume that's why it's cheaper), and apparently those do not work for me..

Just mentioning for anyone looking into b vitamins, not all brands/manufacturers are necessarily the same..

Edited February 13, 2019 by Kate in Arabia
grammar

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, Kate in Arabia said:

Just mentioning for anyone looking into b vitamins, not all brands/manufacturers are necessarily the same..

The point on the Emerald Labs B Complex is the vits are methylated. If someone has methylation defects (MTHFR) and doesn't realize it, they might feel dramatically better switching over. I'm a mix with a heterozygous MTHFR defect and some other things that make me not tolerate methyls well, and the methylated vits are too much for me. There's a lot of discussion to be had about vits, and I currently take a food source B vit that doesn't give me problems. But just in general, the vits being methylated were why it would be such a dramatic improvement.

Sort of in that vein, I tend to eat when stressed. I have to be very intentional and tell myself to buckle down and take BETTER care of myself than normal. So I make pots of split pea soup and am tighter on desserts, eat my salad, lean meats, and just take care of myself.

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, Kate in Arabia said:

 

I don't have experience with the issues under discussion here, but I have been diagnosed with a vit-b deficiency and just to say, I had near-immediate relief from my symptoms when I started taking the prescription supplements.. but some months later I switched to a health store supplement brand to try and save some money and my symptoms came back.. further research into it revealed that some brands use synthetic sources (I assume that's why it's cheaper), and apparently those do not work for me..

Just mentioning for anyone looking into b vitamins, not all brands/manufacturers are necessarily the same..

 

8 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The point on the Emerald Labs B Complex is the vits are methylated. If someone has methylation defects (MTHFR) and doesn't realize it, they might feel dramatically better switching over. I'm a mix with a heterozygous MTHFR defect and some other things that make me not tolerate methyls well, and the methylated vits are too much for me. There's a lot of discussion to be had about vits, and I currently take a food source B vit that doesn't give me problems. But just in general, the vits being methylated were why it would be such a dramatic improvement.

Sort of in that vein, I tend to eat when stressed. I have to be very intentional and tell myself to buckle down and take BETTER care of myself than normal. So I make pots of split pea soup and am tighter on desserts, eat my salad, lean meats, and just take care of myself.

I'm homozygous for mthf.  - so yes, methylated vitamins are going to be better.  rx vitamins... I told my dr exactly what I needed, that isn't what I got and they didn't work for me. 

 

as for form - always.  look. at. the. molecular form.   if it wont' tell you the molecular form - consider it a waste of money.

e.g. folic acid is 100% synthetic.  yet it is what is almost always offered in vitamins, and 'fortified" foods.  it's also something someone with a methylation defect (mthf) should never, ever, have.  (it blocks real folate from being absorbed.)    someone who has zero mthf mutation (roughly half the population) - is fine with folic acid.

most drs - don't know the difference between folic acid and folate.  they think they're the same.  they're not.

 

 

[bodiesmom]

33 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The point on the Emerald Labs B Complex is the vits are methylated. If someone has methylation defects (MTHFR) and doesn't realize it, they might feel dramatically better switching over. I'm a mix with a heterozygous MTHFR defect and some other things that make me not tolerate methyls well, and the methylated vits are too much for me. There's a lot of discussion to be had about vits, and I currently take a food source B vit that doesn't give me problems. But just in general, the vits being methylated were why it would be such a dramatic improvement.

Sort of in that vein, I tend to eat when stressed. I have to be very intentional and tell myself to buckle down and take BETTER care of myself than normal. So I make pots of split pea soup and am tighter on desserts, eat my salad, lean meats, and just take care of myself.

Pen-quick question....

My B levels are tanked. I just ordered the Emerald Labs B Healthy vitamins and am curious as to what kind of symptoms I could expect if it turns out the methylated vitamins are too much for me? Upset stomach? Jittery feeling?

[BooksandBoys]

12 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I guess that's why the idea of C-PTSD is being developed.
It's like having a weakened emotional-immune system, isn't it?

I've only had success in eroding the ptsd-like stuff that isn't triggered by ongoing trauma.

 

I’m diagnosed with PTSD, but while the traumatic events that set that off are in the past, certainly, my life is such that I’m regularly retraumarized (autistic child with violent outbursts, running away, RAD-like symptoms despite being biological and suffering no abuse, intense meltdowns from another child, many other intense, frequent issues). I suppose C-PTSD might be a better diagnosis when it’s better understood. 

BUT, even with the retraumatizing events, the EMDR and other therapies has helped me better handle the new trauma. It doesn’t seem to go as deep, break me as badly. I like your analogy, Rosie, of a weakened emotional immune system. EMDR has helped my emotional system be slightly stronger again. 

Hugs, Bethben. It’s hard. Mine is my biological child, not adopted, so it’s not just adoption that causes this, but I know what it’s like to wonder if you could have prevented the trauma of your current life by making different decisions. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, bodiesmom said:

what kind of symptoms I could expect if it turns out the methylated vitamins are too much for me?

Well I have some known genetic defects that cause me not to tolerate excess methyls well, and when I take things that raise my methyl levels, I can become extremely irritable, have out of body sensations, or just act really, really off, like scary off. Just depends on the amount. Caffeine is a methyl donor too, and a bit and I are ok. But the stronger ones, yeah extreme irritability and edginess.

You might start with 1/2 or 1/4 tablet if you're worried about it. Or run genetics. 

Fwiw, I use Food Form vitamins. Their Empower product is made with food sources and it's just kind of middle of the road for me. I started with it because the nutritionist I was using at the time used it. Later I tried other products, but I went back to paying extra for the Empower. I think it's probably in that category of fine for most people. http://www.foodform.com/cart/product.php?productid=16189

[PeterPan]

49 minutes ago, BooksandBoys said:

autistic child with violent outbursts

I think the hard side of autism is what doesn't get talked about a lot in the midst of all the neurodiversity and this and that stuff. It's like this deep dark secret in the homeschooling community, how many people have had concussions from their kids, how many people have teens who won't leave the house, how many are dealing with dangerous levels of aggression, etc. And it's not like school is some magical cure. I have 5 autism schools within an hour of me and none of them are really great placements for my ds. He'd either be places in a total autism classroom (no peer models) or an inclusion room with inadequate supports and an overzealous restraint policy where they've actually called in the police to TAZER kids (idiots) or... It's just crazy. 

So agree with your comments that the adoption didn't cause this, that the poor dc probably has more going on, and that sometimes it's just really hard. I told the last psych who evaluated my ds (after he had given me a concussion, mind you) that there was NO ONE more committed to figuring this out than I was and that I wasn't enrolling him, even though they had a school, because he needed 1:1 till we got it figured out. And he's like 80% better than he was a year ago, things looking up. We may actually be able to take a family vacation even, which we haven't done since he was 2.

My ds needs a lot of intense interaction to make progress. It can be intense, 1:1 with fun stuff, intense 1:1 with an ABA worker, anything. I pay a worker now to take my ds to the Y and snorkel and swim and play ball with him. He's better for this intense interaction and it keeps me from getting worn out. It increases the number of people in his life making demands so that HE is no longer running the world but working in a world of adults. I couldn't bring all that energy by myself, so I'm better with help. And even then, the help didn't work well till we got his body and methyl levels calmed down. That's what makes it hard. 

For me, when you start to see hope, when you go ok we're building a team, we're finding new answers, we have a bunch more options, this could actually come together, things could change, THEN you can dare to hope a little and renew your courage and say ok we'll try. It's ok to hit some walls and feel like everything is failing. That's a sign of how hard it is, not that it's going to stay that way. 

[Kate in Arabia]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

The point on the Emerald Labs B Complex is the vits are methylated. If someone has methylation defects (MTHFR) and doesn't realize it, they might feel dramatically better switching over. I'm a mix with a heterozygous MTHFR defect and some other things that make me not tolerate methyls well, and the methylated vits are too much for me. There's a lot of discussion to be had about vits, and I currently take a food source B vit that doesn't give me problems. But just in general, the vits being methylated were why it would be such a dramatic improvement.

Sort of in that vein, I tend to eat when stressed. I have to be very intentional and tell myself to buckle down and take BETTER care of myself than normal. So I make pots of split pea soup and am tighter on desserts, eat my salad, lean meats, and just take care of myself.

 

Yes.. in my case, the prescribed B12 I take is methylcobalamin, but the one in the cheaper supplement was cyanocobalamin.  Both are marketed as B12 supplements, I would have not even thought to look closer at sourcing, I learned the hard way that I need to.  It wasn't immediate when I started taking the cheaper cyanocobalamin, it took a couple of months and then my symptoms returned (severe pain).. but again once I switched back to the methylcobalamin the pain was gone the next day.

[Terabith]

Yes to dealing with PTSD/ C-PTSD.  Not that I have any great advice or suggestions or techniques for said dealing.  

[Pen]

5 hours ago, Kate in Arabia said:

 

Yes.. in my case, the prescribed B12 I take is methylcobalamin, but the one in the cheaper supplement was cyanocobalamin.  Both are marketed as B12 supplements, I would have not even thought to look closer at sourcing, I learned the hard way that I need to.  It wasn't immediate when I started taking the cheaper cyanocobalamin, it took a couple of months and then my symptoms returned (severe pain).. but again once I switched back to the methylcobalamin the pain was gone the next day.

 

A specific brand of methylcobalamin that helps with pain?  How much?

[gardenmom5]

 

 

22 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

A specific brand of methylcobalamin that helps with pain?  How much?

methylcobalamin is a molecular form of Vitamin B12.  it is the most bioavailable.  it is available as a b12 sublingual, or as part of a b-complex.   

[Pen]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

 

methylcobalamin is a molecular form of Vitamin B12.  it is the most bioavailable.  it is available as a b12 sublingual, or as part of a b-complex.   

 

I use Jarrow company methylcobalamin sublingual, but haven’t had huge decreases in pain from it.  I am wondering about the specifics that worked so well for @Kate in Arabia .  I have s chronic health condition with pain as a part, and would happily try a different brand or dosage if it might help.  

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

I use Jarrow company methylcobalamin sublingual, but haven’t had huge decreases in pain from it.  I am wondering about the specifics that worked so well for @Kate in Arabia .  I have s chronic health condition with pain as a part, and would happily try a different brand or dosage if it might help.  

part of it would be the etiology of the pain.

my cortisol levels were really high, and that was painful.  when I brought down the levels the pain went away.

[Kate in Arabia]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I use Jarrow company methylcobalamin sublingual, but haven’t had huge decreases in pain from it.  I am wondering about the specifics that worked so well for @Kate in Arabia .  I have s chronic health condition with pain as a part, and would happily try a different brand or dosage if it might help.  

 

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

part of it would be the etiology of the pain.

my cortisol levels were really high, and that was painful.  when I brought down the levels the pain went away.

 

Just checking, the brand that's given as a prescription over here is from Japan, Eisai Methylcobal.  They also have it as injections, but I take a 500mcg pill daily.  The indications as written on the box are "peripheral neuropathies", which is exactly what I have.. I started waking up in the mornings with my arms/hands numb, moving to having that numbness during the day, and graduated to a deep, aching pain that was constant.  Anything that involved using my arms/hands -- driving, leaning on a table, typing, cooking, anything -- and I'd have this horrible pain.  Tests showed my B12 levels were ridiculously low, I had near-immediate relief once I started the methylcobalamin.  Turns out I have several vitamin deficiencies, there's probably something underlying that but I have not found any definitive answers for that to date.

Sorry for going off-thread-topic..

[bethben]

Anybody who had experience with EDMR have a really hard day afterward?  I wasn't rehashing a bunch of memories during the rest of the day afterward, but it did bring up a lot of trauma and thoughts that made me realize the root of other issues I've had for years.  I'm not getting new memories but seeing how thought patterns are connected.  My dh is not happy about me going through the wringer every week.  I see it as good since all I've been doing for over 20 years is pulling off the top of the weed while that sucker has been sending out strong roots so it can keep growing.  I'm finally getting to the root of a lot of issues and it's painful.  

[historically accurate]

5 minutes ago, bethben said:

Anybody who had experience with EDMR have a really hard day afterward?  I wasn't rehashing a bunch of memories during the rest of the day afterward, but it did bring up a lot of trauma and thoughts that made me realize the root of other issues I've had for years.  I'm not getting new memories but seeing how thought patterns are connected.  My dh is not happy about me going through the wringer every week.  I see it as good since all I've been doing for over 20 years is pulling off the top of the weed while that sucker has been sending out strong roots so it can keep growing.  I'm finally getting to the root of a lot of issues and it's painful.  

DD's therapist warned me about getting worse before getting better. She likens it to an infection where you have to open the wound back up to make sure it's clean. DD deals with disassociations and flashbacks. Tuesday and Wednesdays are not fun here after DD's EMDR on Tues morning. 

[maize]

I've started to wonder about therapy for myself; I have developed some PTSD symptoms related to dh's mental health problems--the cumulative stress combined with the impact of a few severe episodes over the years have eroded my coping abilities. 

The problem is--this isn't a post trauma thing. His condition is chronic and not likely to ever be cured, though we've gotten better at achieving control of symptoms over the years. My problem is that now even fairly mild episodes of dysregulation on his part bring the full weight of past experiences crashing down on me.

I don't know if it is even possible to really address that when the trigger is basically my fear that the past will repeat itself (or worse) and that is an entirely valid fear under the circumstances.

 

[bethben]

24 minutes ago, maize said:

I've started to wonder about therapy for myself; I have developed some PTSD symptoms related to dh's mental health problems--the cumulative stress combined with the impact of a few severe episodes over the years have eroded my coping abilities. 

The problem is--this isn't a post trauma thing. His condition is chronic and not likely to ever be cured, though we've gotten better at achieving control of symptoms over the years. My problem is that now even fairly mild episodes of dysregulation on his part bring the full weight of past experiences crashing down on me.

I don't know if it is even possible to really address that when the trigger is basically my fear that the past will repeat itself (or worse) and that is an entirely valid fear under the circumstances.

 

 

Yesterday, my therapist mentioned this very thing.  I can't even remember what she said fully, but said it is a complex situation.  It's like treating an abused child for abuse of the past and then sending them right back to the abuser.  What I am finding is that it's like a dam waiting to explode.  Right now, things have gotten to a point where water is spilling over the top of my emotional dam and eroding the whole thing.  Eventually, that dam is going to fail.  What the therapy has been slowly doing is releasing some of the pressure on the dam through alternate spillways so that the whole thing doesn't blow.  So, I'm dealing with past events to relieve the pressure so that I can hopefully deal with them better and not have it affect me as much.  

So, like you, I am dealing with ongoing stress of a situation that may/may not change and a situation that won't change.  I'm also dealing with past trauma that gets triggered every time my dd explodes in anger or every time my ds has a medical thing that needs taken care of.  I have to relieve the pressure of the past trauma so that I can appropriately deal with the present stress.  I can't even get to learning how to deal with day to day stress because I'm so backed up with past trauma.  It's getting better.  I'm not a total basket case every time I go to therapy like I was three months ago.   But, it's not a quick fix either.  

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, bethben said:

with EDMR have a really hard day afterward?

With TRE, yes, at first I was very fatigued the next day, like totally wiped out. And sometimes, if I did a lot and it went too far, it was like bad voodoo where I seemed to feel worse. Then I'd do another session and come to the other side. And sometimes it was that I needed to talk with the counselor about things I had fluffed up.

I think you're right that it's probably going to get ugly before it gets better and that it's worth it to keep going. 

1 hour ago, bethben said:

thoughts that made me realize the root of other issues I've had for years

Yup, this is why trauma work is amazing. Just see where it goes. 

32 minutes ago, bethben said:

 It's like treating an abused child for abuse of the past and then sending them right back to the abuser.

Ok, now here's a difference and why some counselors who know both (EMDR and TRE) will use one over the other for a given situation. EMDR, my understanding, has the person going back, dealing with the fragments. TRE never requires that. So it's not your imagination that you're reexperiencing some things. With TRE the pain goes out but you don't go back through the experience.

Edited February 15, 2019 by PeterPan

[gardenmom5]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:43 AM, beckyjo said:

I am looking for a counselor for me as I am caring for a child with PTSD. DD is starting EMDR this month. I would not be surprised if I end up with a diagnosis of PTSD from her trauma and diagnosis. I've felt that "itchy, caffeinated" feeling a lot lately. 

@gardenmom5 I've been looking into supplements for DD. She takes magnesium citrate currently before bed. Melatonin is not working for her. Would B-vitamins and adrenal supplements be good for a young teen to add? If so, morning or evening (ie: does it put you to sleep or just take off the edge)? Her psych just took her off of Prazocin because it was dropping her blood pressure too much, and immediately her sleep got worse. @bethben you may want to look into Prazocin for sleep. It's a blood pressure med that works wonders for nightmares and that "on high alert at all times" feeling. It's only through prescription. DD was sleeping better within 3 days of starting it. Unfortunately, even at the lowest dose her blood pressure dropped, but she is less than 100 pounds with lower blood pressure normally. 

are you talking about adrenal support?  or ones that contain adrenal cortex?

is she under a lot of stress?  having fight/flight response?  - adrenal support would be good.  it should be relaxing, not put you to sleep.   

(NEVER do adrenal cortex unless you've done a 24hr spit test, and your dr says to take it.)

b-vitamins are always a good thing, stress or not.  I've had dudeling on them 2x per day for years.

[historically accurate]

5 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

are you talking about adrenal support?  or ones that contain adrenal cortex?

is she under a lot of stress?  having fight/flight response?  - adrenal support would be good.  it should be relaxing, not put you to sleep.   

(NEVER do adrenal cortex unless you've done a 24hr spit test, and your dr says to take it.)

b-vitamins are always a good thing, stress or not.  I've had dudeling on them 2x per day for years.

Adrenal support. Crazy amounts of fight/flight responses. I have a call in to her psych before I pull the trigger on ordering anything. (Bonus: because I abandoned my cart for 24 hours, they've given me 10% off haha)

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

Adrenal support. Crazy amounts of fight/flight responses. I have a call in to her psych before I pull the trigger on ordering anything. (Bonus: because I abandoned my cart for 24 hours, they've given me 10% off haha)

my ND likes integrative therapeutics Cortisol Manager.