Janeway Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) My dad lives in what is technically independent living. He wants to move back home and still has his house. He can definitely afford to move home. He pays over $6K a month to be at this place. That is the base pay. Everything they do above that is a charge. He keeps being told he can do everything there that he can do if he were living at his house, it is just now he has help. Seriously though, I have my doubts. Anyway, he kept begging and begging to have my son over for a few hours to watch movies and eat stuff like ice cream and popsicles..you know..grandparent treats. I did not really want to send him but then caved and let him go today. I asked the staff when I brought him and they said it was fine. I left him. I came back and checked on him and things seemed ok. But when I came back later, a new guy working there made some jokes about be careful, he might find himself turning in to an old man suddenly. I have been told most residents do not get many guests like my dad does. I rarely see children around and when I do, they have the look of being dragged somewhere they do not want to go. They stay very briefly and are gone. Plus, when I have been in my dad's apartment, sometimes, certain staff members will just walk in using the key fob, not knocking first or anything. This feels like not only a huge intrusion, but it also leaves things feeling like it is more of a public place and not Dad's personal home. Plus, he has had some things go missing so I think staff has stolen from him. My older sister who has power of attorney refuses to consider that any staff would have stolen. When anyone can just let themselves in and come and go like that, it does not feel like a private home, even though I keep being told to treat it as such. Dad wants my son to come back again very soon. He already texted that he has pie for my son for tomorrow. IF I were in charge, I would just move Dad back home and hire help to care for him. But I am not the one in charge of Dad. I am just the one who lives two miles from his place and comes running to help him all the time. Back to the question....how much would you allow your child to stay? I have been told residents even have over night guests...but honestly, I never see children there. I often feel like my dad is much younger than many of them. This is not so much a retirement community as it is a home that has independent living/assisted living/and then memory care. My son has been very mature and very well behaved so he is not the problem here. I get worried that staff will start to get concerned that I am having my dad babysit or something and not taking proper care of my child or whatever else. If Dad were at his house, I would have no qualms at all about leaving my son there. I want to be fair and kind here. But I also do not want to be accused of being a neglectful parent because I let my son stay there for an afternoon like this, or multiple afternoons. Edited January 15, 2019 by Janeway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I would have zero problem with children visiting grandparents in assisted living. If you are worried about theft you could put up a nanny cam. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said: I would have zero problem with children visiting grandparents in assisted living. If you are worried about theft you could put up a nanny cam. He wants me to bring my son and leave him. And really, the only way they would have the time to spend the day together, like he wants, would be to drop him off and come back for him hours later. So it is not just a visit like what anyone else seems to do, but rather staying for many hours. He also wants my son to spend the night, something I would have allowed if my dad lived in his own house. Edited January 15, 2019 by Janeway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne in ABQ Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) My mom is in an independent facility (which has Assisted Living at the other end of the building). The only rule they have about guests is that they can only stay overnight seven nights per month. There are no rules about children visiting. It's totally okay. My brother's kids are younger than mine, but we have both let our kids spend time there. The residents love it where there are children hanging around. My dd used to go do puzzles with these two ladies downstairs. Another time, she went down and played the piano for her Nana, and several residents gathered around. She used to love going to the dining hall with my mom and ordering from the menu. (Dd is 13 now, and lost interest in most of those things, though she's always happy to perform for an audience). I am sure your son spreads sunshine in an otherwise dull world. Even if your dad WERE babysitting, that would be totally okay. No one is going to think badly of you because you allow your child to spend time with his grandfather. Really! If anything, I'm sure they are wishing more of the residents had children visiting and feeling comfortable there. If you are uncomfortable, read the contract that your dad and/or sister has signed. I'm sure there is probably a clause about guests. But, if the staff said it was okay, then it really is okay, even if it feels weird to you. It is your dad's home. Not a hospital. No one comes in my mom's apartment without knocking first. They do have a key, and they'll give her a chance to answer the door before coming in, but they always knock first, and then call out to her as they are entering. You're right, it does feel different than a private home. It's some kind of hybrid between private apartment, hotel, and rehab. It's hard to get used to. That being said, no one has ever stolen anything from my mom in the six years she's been there. Even when she lost things (and blamed the staff), it turned out that she had misplaced it. ETA: The staff always has a reason for being there -- maintenance on the heating or plumbing, cleaning the apartment, or just checking on Mom if she didn't come down for breakfast. Edited January 15, 2019 by Suzanne in ABQ 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I think it is fine. Not sure about staying overnight (depending on the child's age), mainly because the staff may feel like it is somewhat their responsibility to look out for him in case anything happens. Personally I would decide based on how my kids felt about it. I have taken my kids to my friend's assisted living home. It wasn't fun for them because there was nothing for them to do there, but if that was their grandpa, presumably they would have something to do - chat, play cards, do a puzzle, watch a show together or whatever. So if my kids found it a valuable experience, I would let them go often, but if they found it burdensome, I would push it only occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 From what you're describing, I would have no issue leaving my kids for a grandparent sleepover. In terms of moving him out... there are some great ways to age in your own home and that can be a great option for many people. But so can communities like that, especially when you need them - and finding the right space again once you leave can be hard. A lot of places like that primarily take elderly people who start out entirely independent and then let them age in place. If he wants to go back when he can no longer take care of himself adequately or with help visiting, then it may be harder for him to find a spot. Just something to consider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twolittleboys Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Sorry, but I don't see your problem? Why shouldn't he be there? It's independent/assisted living, not some dangerous place. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sk8ermaiden Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I think you're overthinking it. It sounds like Grandpa is a capable caregiver and you'd let him spend the night if he were in a house, so I would have zero problems letting my kid hang out or stay the night. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 My DD used to visit her great-uncle in assisted living all the time — sometimes with me, but often on her own. She would often stay for lunch or dinner, and she attended a lot of their themed parties (like luau, western, roaring 20s, etc.). He passed away last spring, at the age of 88, and at the memorial service it was obvious that all the residents knew DD. Many of them commented on how much he loved her, and said that he talked about her all the time and would get so excited whenever he knew she was coming. I would let your son visit as often, and for as long, and he and your dad want. I'm sure it would mean a lot to your dad (and hopefully to your son, too). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL2.0 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 My in-laws were in such a place, assisted living in their own two-bedroom apartment, and able to be moved into the nursing or Alztimers section if needed. Staff always knocked and called out before entering. Each door on their hallway had been decorated by the residents with a name plate, or fake flowers, etc.. I see no reason why you can't use a command strip and put up a simple "please knock before entering" sign. Also ask at the main office if this could be standard procedure. Just entering without knocking seems rude. i think having young visitors, well-behaved visitors ( which your son certainly is ) can help liven up the place for the residents...as long as Grandpa shares him by going down the the common rooms, etc a bit. we tried to get my dad to move into assisted living after he broke his hip, but he did not want to go. It got hard to keep him in his home when his dementia began, and even harder for him to adjust when he finally HAD to move into a room ( by then straight into a facility for dementia folks). Of course your dad wants to be in his own home - who wouldn't? But what others have said is true - it would only be harder later, and a room might not be available. But it also depends on his health, and age. Might be better to visit often, let your son visit often and spend as many nights as allowed, and try and get your dad involved in any clubs etc offered there. Also, unless he is in the dementia ward, he can leave, either on his own steam or with you, and go out to do stuff away from the building, can't he? It is usually just the dementia folks who are on lock down, as it were. Pardon typos, two finger typing on iPad as I can NOT post any longer since the boards changed on my computer. Which is why you seldom hear from me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Maybe I'm misremembering, but is this the grandfather who plays favorites so obviously and is so unkind to you and your family? I'd be more concerned with having a child in that particular situation than the issue of the location. Generally speaking, however, I'd have no problem with a child who wanted to do it spend time with a grandparent in that situation. It's a beautiful thing in my opinion and, honestly, something I'd encourage when relationships are good. I second the suggestion for a nanny cam, though, if you think the staff has sticky fingers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Janeway said: He wants me to bring my son and leave him. And really, the only way they would have the time to spend the day together, like he wants, would be to drop him off and come back for him hours later. So it is not just a visit like what anyone else seems to do, but rather staying for many hours. He also wants my son to spend the night, something I would have allowed if my dad lived in his own house. All of this should be fine. Somewhere in the fine print of the contract it probably notes that children can’t live there, but they can certainly visit, even for overnight stays. I know when my mom was very briefly in assisted living, family visits were encouraged. Legally, there are no issues at all. In fact, from a legal standpoint, it is not legal to prevent family from visiting any resident of an independent or assisted g facility or a hospital or nursing home. To prohibit visits, the facility must go as far as seeking a restraining order in court, which means they must prove the person they are seeking to prevent from visiting is harming the resident in some manner. It is very seriously enforced, as preventing family visits is a huge alarm bell for elder abuse. My bigger question is, since you have been told this is fine, why do you care what other people think? So other residents don’t have family visits as frequently as your relative does, what does that matter to your family and how they do things? Also, staff entering residents rooms is common at assisted living. They have guidelines on how often they have to check on residents. At my mom’s place it was every two hours and they did it very tactfully, coming in to do specific tasks like empty the garbage or deliver mail. They absolutely should be knocking first, and that is something you need to bring up to the facility manager. However, with many residents who are hard of hearing, they may not wait for a response when they knock. Also, one of their responsibilities is to check on their residents and you absolutely need them to check if they don’t hear a response. That is what your father s paying for - assistance. You seem bothered by people entering his room, but you didn’t say whether or not he is bothered. If he isn’t bothered, then don’t worry about it at all because it isn’t your worry to have. As to missing property- when he moved in a family member should have filled out a personal belongings inventory. It should be kept updated by the resident or family, it’s their responsibility to do so. It is for the express purpose of theft deterrence and to provide documentation should a theft occur. Theft of personal belongings can be an issue in facilities of all types, which is why the belongings inventory was developed. This is SOP in any care facility. Check the list on file for the item you are missing, ask your father if he did anything with it and then let the manager know if there are items missing. You don’t have to have your sister’s permission to do that. In fact, if you don’t report missing items, then you may be under suspicion for removing them yourself one day. This is important because theft of personal items is not only a crime in and of itself, but because it is also a warning flag for elder abuse. ETA: regarding a nanny cam, you need to find out if this is permitted. These are not your employees, this is not your home and it isn’t your property. Also, do not do this without your father’s permission, no matter what the regulations say. Edited January 15, 2019 by TechWife 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, TechWife said: ETA: regarding a nanny cam, you need to find out if this is permitted. These are not your employees, this is not your home and it isn’t your property. Also, do not do this without your father’s permission, no matter what the regulations say. Just a questionn regarding your ETA because you have a lot more experience with hospital issues than I do... Why would a facililty of this type be able to prevent residents from installing a nanny cam assuming it was done with the resident's permission? The resident is paying for the space and the service. Wouldn't that give them the right to do so within the confines of their living space? Again, I'm genuinely wondering because I'd seen a case in the last year or so where the nanny cam an adult child installed proved an elderly person was being mistreated at a hospital or nursing facility situation. Again, this is a geniune question. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Thanks! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I'd be more concerned about the no knocking thing than anything else. Heck, when dh was in the hospital with his heart attack, all the hospital staff knocked before entering unless there was an emergency (or if it was late and they were trying not to wake him.) If he is in independent living, they really should not be entering without him letting them in unless they have a reason to suspect he is not doing well. The whole point of independent living is independence with help WHEN NEEDED. My mom was in an independent living community that had the capability for assisted living. The only time they entered her place without her letting them in (and they still knocked) was when she forgot to hit the "I'm still living and up" button that she was supposed to hit every morning. Even for those who had trouble getting to the door, they knocked first. Even in a nursing home, staff would knock and ask permission to enter. The more I think about this, the angrier I get. This is a subtle way of getting residents to be more passive and allow more opportunities for staff to do do things that, perhaps they shouldn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Valley Girl said: Just a questionn regarding your ETA because you have a lot more experience with hospital issues than I do... Why would a facililty of this type be able to prevent residents from installing a nanny cam assuming it was done with the resident's permission? The resident is paying for the space and the service. Wouldn't that give them the right to do so within the confines of their living space? Again, I'm genuinely wondering because I'd seen a case in the last year or so where the nanny cam an adult child installed proved an elderly person was being mistreated at a hospital or nursing facility situation. Again, this is a geniune question. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Thanks! I added the caution because I really don’t know the legalities of recording people without their permission, and I know the legalities also vary by state. I do think that installing a camera without her father’s permission would be immoral as her father is fully competent to make his own decisions. ETA: Hospital recording is a different animal all together as there are privacy issues involved. Many hospitals have a no recording policy because of the potential that other patients may be inadvertently recorded. I don’t think these have been challenged legally at this point, and hospitals are typically very careful from a legal standpoint. Many nurses I know will not allow their pictures to be taken for security reasons and some that allow it will conceal their name tags for the picture. Edited January 15, 2019 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Valley Girl said: Just a questionn regarding your ETA because you have a lot more experience with hospital issues than I do... Why would a facililty of this type be able to prevent residents from installing a nanny cam assuming it was done with the resident's permission? The resident is paying for the space and the service. Wouldn't that give them the right to do so within the confines of their living space? Again, I'm genuinely wondering because I'd seen a case in the last year or so where the nanny cam an adult child installed proved an elderly person was being mistreated at a hospital or nursing facility situation. Again, this is a geniune question. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Thanks! I agree. Because if this really is his private residence, like they claim, he should be able to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, dirty ethel rackham said: I'd be more concerned about the no knocking thing than anything else. Heck, when dh was in the hospital with his heart attack, all the hospital staff knocked before entering unless there was an emergency (or if it was late and they were trying not to wake him.) If he is in independent living, they really should not be entering without him letting them in unless they have a reason to suspect he is not doing well. The whole point of independent living is independence with help WHEN NEEDED. My mom was in an independent living community that had the capability for assisted living. The only time they entered her place without her letting them in (and they still knocked) was when she forgot to hit the "I'm still living and up" button that she was supposed to hit every morning. Even for those who had trouble getting to the door, they knocked first. Even in a nursing home, staff would knock and ask permission to enter. The more I think about this, the angrier I get. This is a subtle way of getting residents to be more passive and allow more opportunities for staff to do do things that, perhaps they shouldn't. They did this to me at the hospital when I had my last baby. It really bothered me and I had a note placed on the door to knock before entering and some of the staff got quite snide about it. The disrespect of just walking in like that makes me feel like there are even more issues I am not there to witness. I have a good friend whose mom was there and she visited a lot (her children are adults) and she said it was awful. Stuff was stolen, lack of respect from staff, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Janeway said: I agree. Because if this really is his private residence, like they claim, he should be able to do that. I think there are legal issues with recording people even in your own home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Janeway said: I agree. Because if this really is his private residence, like they claim, he should be able to do that. There is a difference between him doing it and you doing it. You both need to know the legalities in his particular situation - state law and laws governing the type of facility he is living in. Additionally , the contract he signed may address this issue and you need to know what, if anything, he has agreed to regarding recording staff. Edited January 15, 2019 by TechWife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 20 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: I would have zero problem with children visiting grandparents in assisted living. If you are worried about theft you could put up a nanny cam. Honestly I would never not have a nanny cam no matter how I felt about the facility. Elder abuse and neglect is so rampant at so many facilities that I’d never risk it. I will also say that over the past 12 years I’ve had friends and family in assisted living as described by the OP and no one EVER just walked in like that. Ever. They always knocked and let the person there say come in or answer the door. No sometimes the person living there doesn’t want to bother and will tell the nurse that stops in to check every morning around 9am to just come on in - but otherwise? No. They always knocked. OP - you should ask your dad if he is comfortable with how they all just randomly come and go. And if he says no, I’d make a sign and put it in the door and also I’d go speak to management on his behalf about it. You do not have to be POA to do those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I think it's fine to leave a child there to watch movies and eat junk with grandpa. The employee made a funny joke, I think that was sweet of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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