s/o weight loss/maintenance

[ktgrok]

I wanted to share this, it's a lecture about the findings of the national weight loss registry. Basically, this is about people who kept off at least 30 pounds for at least a year, but the average was over 70 pounds. This is the info on what they all have in common, and what they don't. 

 

[FriedClams]

This was FABULOUS. THANK YOU

[Laura Corin]

Interesting.

 

ETA, I particularly liked the bit about successful maintenance being more likely for those who are active enough that they don't have to restrict intake too severely.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Laura Corin

[DawnM]

I wanted to share this, it's a lecture about the findings of the national weight loss registry. Basically, this is about people who kept off at least 30 pounds for at least a year, but the average was over 70 pounds. This is the info on what they all have in common, and what they don't. 

 

 

Interesting.

 

What struck me was his  comment that all the participants did the following:

 

Low fat diet

Attention to calories

Self-monitoring

Behavioral consistency

Dietary restraint

Breakfast

High levels of Physical activity.

 

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run?  What do you all think?

[ktgrok]

more info http://www.nwcr.ws/research/

[Minerva]

This was so encouraging. Thanks for posting. 

 

 

[Lady Florida.]

Thank you. The National Weight Control Registry is mentioned a number of times in the book I linked in one of the other threads - The Diet Fix by Yoni Freedhoff.

[ktgrok]

Interesting.

 

What struck me was his  comment that all the participants did the following:

 

Low fat diet

Attention to calories

Self-monitoring

Behavioral consistency

Dietary restraint

Breakfast

High levels of Physical activity.

 

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run?  What do you all think?

 

" No differences in 3-year weight regain were observed between low-carbohydrate dieters and other Registry members in intent-to-treat analyses (7.0 +/- 7.1 vs. 5.7 +/- 8.7 kg)."

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17925473&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Greta]

Edited:  I shouldn't be sharing personal opinion when the discussion is about the registry results.

Edited January 1, 2018 by Greta

[Scarlett]

more info http://www.nwcr.ws/research/

Thank you for posting this. I don't have time to watch the video but the highlights in the above link seem to be in direct conflict with current weigh loss advice. Ds's Doctor says low car and not low fat.

 

This is the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. Overall though it does seem that consistency is key.

 

Do you think it would be helpful to let Dss watch that video or show him this link?

[DawnM]

" No differences in 3-year weight regain were observed between low-carbohydrate dieters and other Registry members in intent-to-treat analyses (7.0 +/- 7.1 vs. 5.7 +/- 8.7 kg)."

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17925473&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

Huh, I wonder why he said that then.  It was on one of his power point bullet points.

[ktgrok]

Thank you for posting this. I don't have time to watch the video but the highlights in the above link seem to be in direct conflict with current weigh loss advice. Ds's Doctor says low car and not low fat.

 

This is the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. Overall though it does seem that consistency is key.

 

Do you think it would be helpful to let Dss watch that video or show him this link?

 

Well, it also says that for weight LOSS it didn't matter which diet you did, as long as you stuck to it. So whichever diet you find easiest to stick with is what you should use while losing. For many people with messed up metabolisms low carb is much easier to stick to than low fat. Less white knuckling, because it automatically reduces appetite. Once the weight is lost, and people have habits and portion sizes ingrained, I think that maybe matters less. Or maybe by then the insulin system is healed a bit?

 

Keep in mind that the average was a bit under 25% fat, which is not super low fat. 

 

Edited to clarify: most people in the maintenance phase were at that 24% fat level, but he says specifically that for weight loss low carb/high fat works. That the strategies for loss and maintenance may need to be different. 

 

He also says you can lose without exercise, but to maintain you have to exercise. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by ktgrok

[wintermom]

Interesting.

 

What struck me was his  comment that all the participants did the following:

 

Low fat diet

Attention to calories

Self-monitoring

Behavioral consistency

Dietary restraint

Breakfast

High levels of Physical activity.

 

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run?  What do you all think?

 

I understood it to mean that in the data the centre collected from their subjects, one the common factors to those who kept their weight off for at least a year was a relatively low fat diet. That is all they reported because that is the data they have to analyse.  

 

I think that "high" fat or "low" fat isn't the key, it's having consistently most of these 7 behaviours over many years.

Edited January 1, 2018 by wintermom

[ktgrok]

Huh, I wonder why he said that then.  It was on one of his power point bullet points.

 

It's a matter of numbers. Most eat low fat, low cal. But about 10% were low carb people. There were no differences in weight gain between those groups. 

 

Now, are there more low fat "successful losers" because low fat works better? Or because they make up more of the dieting population in general? Or because they happened to get the survey out to more low fat people? A lot of the people in this group have had weight loss surgery, and WLS patients cannot generally eat a very high fat diet without stomach problems. They generally do eat low carb, but low to moderate fat, not high fat. So I could see those patients messing with those statistics....they count calories and are low fat, but are also low carb. Heck, they might fall into both cohorts in that way. 

[ktgrok]

Do you think it would be helpful to let Dss watch that video or show him this link?

 

Not sure about that video, but that came from a list of videos at the Your Weight Matters National Conference website. He could browse the videos and see if any interest him. Some are on cooking, which may be interesting, and others on debunking diet fads, etc. Lots of good info. Heck, he might like the info enough he wants to save up and attend the national conference, who knows? (I'd love to go, I hear great things about it)

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFzA_3EwTi_mWjOmO4QMmFpMfpevZAi1y

[mamaraby]

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run? What do you all think?

Perhaps what it shows is that LCHF is not sustainable long term for a large percentage of people who have successfully maintained weight loss. Which does not mean that it is not sustainable for everyone so if it works for you, great, but it’s no great panacea.

 

Correct me if I’m wrong ktgrok because I hate videos and prefer written presentations, but from what I remeber in previous things I’ve read folks on the NWCR generally were consistent. In other words, whatever you do make sure it’s sustainable. I’m partial to that because it matches my experience (year four, baby!) so take that for what it’s worth.

[Ann.without.an.e]

 

 

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run?  What do you all think?

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing, since I tend to go toward paleo/whole 30ish type of stuff when I diet.

[kiana]

Well, it also says that for weight LOSS it didn't matter which diet you did, as long as you stuck to it. So whichever diet you find easiest to stick with is what you should use while losing. For many people with messed up metabolisms low carb is much easier to stick to than low fat. Less white knuckling, because it automatically reduces appetite. Once the weight is lost, and people have habits and portion sizes ingrained, I think that maybe matters less. Or maybe by then the insulin system is healed a bit?

 

I know that my blood sugar was absolutely wild, spikes and crashes, and it had healed significantly before I even started losing weight because I started incorporating a high amount of activity (for pleasure -- found something I liked to do -- not for exercise) into my life for a few years first. I honestly don't know if I could have been successful without support if I hadn't already had that healing. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

This is an excellent video.  So many good points.  

[mamaraby]

Low good carb reduced blood sugar roller coaster, so much easier to stick to as one doesn't get hungry so often.

 

If one switches back to high or processed carbs, the roller coaster and weight gain begins anew.

  

 

It really depends on the person and I don’t think there is enough data to back up a statement like that when generalized over the broader population at least as far as the NWCR is concerned. If this were hands down, blanket statement true then you’d see far more people on the NWCR who ate LCHF. But really, as ktgrok points out they’re more moderate fat than low fat.

 

But if you find that these things work for you and are sustainable in a long term sense, then there’s also nothing in the NWCR that precludes you doing it.

 

I was wondering the same thing, since I tend to go toward paleo/whole 30ish type of stuff when I diet.

The shorter NWCR findings are not that low carb diets don’t work. It’s just that of those on the NWCR most are not LCHF. We’re talking a generalized principle in these cases, not specifics for one person. The question the NWCR is asking is not “what's the one perfect diet for people?†The question is “what are the general habits and behaviors that successful maintainers have in common?â€

 

If it works for you then you should do the thing that works. Then the question becomes, how can you add in some of those same habits that successful maintainers use to what works for you so that you too become successful and no longer need to “diet.†You being used in the general sense and not the specific sense.

[wintermom]

  

 

It really depends on the person and I don’t think there is enough data to back up a statement like that when generalized over the broader population at least as far as the NWCR is concerned. If this were hands down, blanket statement true then you’d see far more people on the NWCR who ate LCHF. But really, as ktgrok points out they’re more moderate fat than low fat.

 

But if you find that these things work for you and are sustainable in a long term sense, then there’s also nothing in the NWCR that precludes you doing it.

 

The shorter NWCR findings are not that low carb diets don’t work. It’s just that of those on the NWCR most are not LCHF. We’re talking a generalized principle in these cases, not specifics for one person. The question the NWCR is asking is not “what's the one perfect diet for people?†The question is “what are the general habits and behaviors that successful maintainers have in common?â€

 

If it works for you then you should do the thing that works. Then the question becomes, how can you add in some of those same habits that successful maintainers use to what works for you so that you too become successful and no longer need to “diet.†You being used in the general sense and not the specific sense.

 

That what I liked about the video, they were using data from 10,000 people and it appeared to be a well defined and managed study with credible researchers who explained the limitations of the data clearly. 

[Sandwalker]

Interesting.

 

What struck me was his comment that all the participants did the following:

 

Low fat diet

Attention to calories

Self-monitoring

Behavioral consistency

Dietary restraint

Breakfast

High levels of Physical activity.

 

Does that mean that the higher fat/low carb diets don't work in the long run? What do you all think?

That is my belief.

[Guest]

Thank you for posting this. I don't have time to watch the video but the highlights in the above link seem to be in direct conflict with current weigh loss advice. Ds's Doctor says low car and not low fat.

 

This is the kind of stuff that makes me crazy. Overall though it does seem that consistency is key.

 

Do you think it would be helpful to let Dss watch that video or show him this link?

The video is good (although I have not watched it completely, due to limited internet here). I would encourage DSs to watch it. I’m thinking I even want DH, who is not obese, to watch it. I find it interesting.

 

PS. He says in the video that the type of diet is not statistically important. It does not matter if it is low carb or low fat. Compliance is the important factor, and then the correct maintenance.

[ktgrok]

One of the biggest things I picked up on was that the exercise doesn't have to be strenuous. Walking was a huge part of it, and being more active overall. That's very encouraging, because I hate high intensity exercise. HATE IT. I mean, sometimes I enjoy a Zumba class if I'm in the mood, but I'm not a boot camp/P90X/cross fit kind of girl. I don't like being yelled at, or "no pain no gain" stuff. I like yoga, if it isn't too hard. I like some weight lifting, but not so tough I want to cry. I like walking the dog briskly (big dog, so it's go quickly or he has to crawl). I think those are more sustainable, especially as I age, than high intensity 90 minute long power sessions at the gym. 

[mamaraby]

Low is relative and low carb is also ambiguous. You can haze the discussion all you want , but what is seen over and over is that people who toss processed carbs, and replace them with a reasonable amount of carbs from whole foods can get off that blood sugar roller coaster and move back to a healthy weight. That is the general principle that works for those who don't have certain genetic variants. Putting that general principle into numbers: keep your blood sugar steady, at a level that doesn't pack on the pounds.

 

Best wishes, as you sort through.

Eh, I’m not sorting through. I’ve lost 100+ lbs (since January 2014) by generally following the habits the NWCR has found amongst successful maintainers. I find the over focus on this idea that there is one mechanism (blood sugar and insulin levels) and one method of addressing it (lowering carb intake) to be missing the point. The NWCR data bears that out. There is no one diet to rule them all. The specifics of weight loss will vary from person to person. They have habits in common, but they don’t all do it the same way.

 

If low carb works for any one individual, fantastic! They should do that and keep doing that for now on. If one finds that’s not a useful metric/tool, then the good news is that there are so many more options and tools out there to choose! Keep on keeping on, as it were.

[FriedClams]

I watched the whole thing. It's excellent.

 

My takeaway- it doesn't matter how you lose it (across the board everything works if you stick with it) but sustaining lost weight has some very specific success factors. 91% exercised for an average of 60 minutes, daily. Eating breakfast is important. Mental state is important. The video is well worth watching.

 

My other takeaway...WW is working for me and ticks off nearly every success marker. Group support. Know your why. Don't lose in a way you can't maintain. Emphasis on sustainable exercise. A plan for maintenance. I know I'm a kool aid drinker, but it's good to know they're aligned with the science of success.

Edited January 1, 2018 by FriedClams

[mamaraby]

One of the biggest things I picked up on was that the exercise doesn't have to be strenuous. Walking was a huge part of it, and being more active overall. That's very encouraging, because I hate high intensity exercise. HATE IT. I mean, sometimes I enjoy a Zumba class if I'm in the mood, but I'm not a boot camp/P90X/cross fit kind of girl. I don't like being yelled at, or "no pain no gain" stuff. I like yoga, if it isn't too hard. I like some weight lifting, but not so tough I want to cry. I like walking the dog briskly (big dog, so it's go quickly or he has to crawl). I think those are more sustainable, especially as I age, than high intensity 90 minute long power sessions at the gym.

Across the board in all areas, I think sustainability is key! The exercise you do is better than the exercise you avoid. Crossfit/P90X/boot camp/zumba and all group exercise classes in general are so not my thing, but running is my jam. I did briefly flirt with a return to lap swimming, but that ended up being a “more in love with it in theory†sort of thing.

 

I think you can add to the list, a gradual increase in activity over time. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing starting today. A lot of the successful maintainers start with “to start, I did x.†And then it changes over time.

[wintermom]

One interesting thing I noticed, is that even though this particular data set results are from people who started out overweight, the weight maintenance characteristics are pretty much the same for people who were never overweight.  Regular exercise, dietary restriction, self-monitoring are all required for most people. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

One of the biggest things I picked up on was that the exercise doesn't have to be strenuous. Walking was a huge part of it, and being more active overall. That's very encouraging, because I hate high intensity exercise. HATE IT. I mean, sometimes I enjoy a Zumba class if I'm in the mood, but I'm not a boot camp/P90X/cross fit kind of girl. I don't like being yelled at, or "no pain no gain" stuff. I like yoga, if it isn't too hard. I like some weight lifting, but not so tough I want to cry. I like walking the dog briskly (big dog, so it's go quickly or he has to crawl). I think those are more sustainable, especially as I age, than high intensity 90 minute long power sessions at the gym. 

 

I've proven this to myself.  It really does not have to be crazy intense at all.  Sure some people are into that, but I am not and I won't stick to anything backbreaking and I refuse to run.

 

I hate those crazy workout videos.  I had a couple and after using them once I was in dire pain for several days.  And during that time I could barely function let alone continue with any sort of exercise.  That stuff is not meant to get a person in shape IMO.  To me it's meant to be a challenge to someone already in shape.  It only left me feeling like crud.

[ktgrok]

Another video, this one on activity, and talking about how changes in day to day energy expenditures may explain the rise in obesity over the last 30-40 years than changes in caloric intake. (not, one could argue, and I would, that the amount of sugar consumed has gone up and is a factor...but he makes a compelling case for the sedentary lifestyle being one strong factor) 

[Greta]

Low good carb reduced blood sugar roller coaster, so much easier to stick to as one doesn't get hungry so often.

 

If one switches back to high or processed carbs, the roller coaster and weight gain begins anew.

 

 

Low is relative and low carb is also ambiguous. You can haze the discussion all you want , but  what is seen over and over is that people who toss processed carbs, and replace them with a reasonable amount of carbs from whole foods can get off that blood sugar roller coaster and move back to a  healthy weight. That is the general principle that works for those who don't have certain genetic variants.  Putting that general principle into numbers:  keep your blood sugar steady, at a level that doesn't pack on the pounds. 

 

Best wishes, as you sort through.

 

 

 

I'm all for tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones.  But I have to respectfully disagree with you that the answer to insulin resistance and blood sugar control is that simple.  The reality is that meat causes an unexpectedly large release of insulin, even though it has virtually no carbs.  The leucine and glycotoxins in meat cause insulin resistance.  Saturated fats cause insulin resistance.  Heme iron (found in animal foods) is also suspected of causing insulin resistance.  Carbs are most certainly not the only culprit, and they may not even be the worst culprit.

 

I ate VLCHF/keto for 12 years.  Over the course of those 12 years, I actually become more insulin resistant:  my HA1c and fasting blood glucose numbers went up, and my body became more "reactive" to carbohydrates (more likely for my blood sugar to surge and then crash).  This occurrence is so common in the low-carb world that they've even coined a term for it:  "physiological insulin resistance".  This is to make it sound adaptive and good, like it's something different from the insulin resistance that leads to diabetes.  But is isn't.  Insulin resistance is insulin resistance.  My blood sugar stays much steadier now on my vegan/low-fat diet, and I no longer have any symptoms of hypoglycemia.  Believe me, no one could be more shocked by that than I am.  I was a HUGE believer in and proponent of low-carb diets.  

 

My hopes and intentions here are to be helpful, not argumentative or preachy.  I hope it is coming across that way.  Everyone gets to make their own choice.  Personally I just wish I'd had better information when I chose LC back in 2004.  (Because the insulin resistance wasn't the worst thing that LC did to me!)

[Carol in Cal.]

One interesting thing I noticed, is that even though this particular data set results are from people who started out overweight, the weight maintenance characteristics are pretty much the same for people who were never overweight.  Regular exercise, dietary restriction, self-monitoring are all required for most people. 

 

I SO wish I had known this early in life.

It is much easier, I think, to maintain than to lose and maintain.

I had no idea that working on maintaining was anything but an anti-female patriarchal conspiracy to sell women's magazines when I was young and thin, LOL.  

[ktgrok]

I think it is really individual, which the data seems to show. For me, certain carbs cause cravings. Meat usually doesn't, plus dense protein works best to fill uo mt post op stomach. But I think the idea afflatus of veggies plus some meat is probably better than the trend toward big hunks of meat and a dash of veggies. Because yes, too much protien will trigger insulin and blood sugar issues for sure.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm all for tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones.  But I have to respectfully disagree with you that the answer to insulin resistance and blood sugar control is that simple....

 

My hopes and intentions here are to be helpful, not argumentative or preachy.  I hope it is coming across that way.  Everyone gets to make their own choice.  Personally I just wish I'd had better information when I chose LC back in 2004.  (Because the insulin resistance wasn't the worst thing that LC did to me!)

My husband is LC, high veggies and protein, and it has stopped him from contracting the diabetes that both of his parents have.  17 years ago he found out that he was just about pre-diabetic, and that his blood sugar would skyrocket with a little rice or a soda, in a way that most people's would not.  He changed his diet radically to very low carb and has a better A1C now than he did then, despite being more sedentary due to back problems.  

 

So low carb high protein did the job for him, big time.  It's different from one person to another, but it's important to know that some people employ this method extremely successfully.

[Sandwalker]

 

 

I'm all for tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones. But I have to respectfully disagree with you that the answer to insulin resistance and blood sugar control is that simple. The reality is that meat causes an unexpectedly large release of insulin, even though it has virtually no carbs. The leucine and glycotoxins in meat cause insulin resistance. Saturated fats cause insulin resistance. Heme iron (found in animal foods) is also suspected of causing insulin resistance. Carbs are most certainly not the only culprit, and they may not even be the worst culprit.

 

I ate VLCHF/keto for 12 years. Over the course of those 12 years, I actually become more insulin resistant: my HA1c and fasting blood glucose numbers went up, and my body became more "reactive" to carbohydrates (more likely for my blood sugar to surge and then crash). This occurrence is so common in the low-carb world that they've even coined a term for it: "physiological insulin resistance". This is to make it sound adaptive and good, like it's something different from the insulin resistance that leads to diabetes. But is isn't. Insulin resistance is insulin resistance. My blood sugar stays much steadier now on my vegan/low-fat diet, and I no longer have any symptoms of hypoglycemia. Believe me, no one could be more shocked by that than I am. I was a HUGE believer in and proponent of low-carb diets.

 

My hopes and intentions here are to be helpful, not argumentative or preachy. I hope it is coming across that way. Everyone gets to make their own choice. Personally I just wish I'd had better information when I chose LC back in 2004. (Because the insulin resistance wasn't the worst thing that LC did to me!)

The vegan diet is often not given as an alternative to people at risk for/with Type 2 diabetes, even though there are studies showing it works for many people. I don't know why--doctors will say it's extreme, or they just go by the ADA, I guess. How long have you been eating plant-based, if you don't mind my nosiness?

[Greta]

My husband is LC, high veggies and protein, and it has stopped him from contracting the diabetes that both of his parents have. 17 years ago he found out that he was just about pre-diabetic, and that his blood sugar would skyrocket with a little rice or a soda, in a way that most people's would not. He changed his diet radically to very low carb and has a better A1C now than he did then, despite being more sedentary due to back problems.

 

So low carb high protein did the job for him, big time. It's different from one person to another, but it's important to know that some people employ this method extremely successfully.

I’m glad that my experience is not universal, and that it is helping him! I only wish to promote caution, and for people to make an informed choice. The problem seems to be information overload rather than lack of information. It’s hard to know what’s best with so much conflicting information floating about. And in my particular case, since my numbers got better initially, it was hard for me to understand/believe/accept what was happening when they started to get worse. But I certainly hope that won’t happen for your husband and, I am very happy that he’s better!

[Carol in Cal.]

 And in my particular case, since my numbers got better initially, it was hard for me to understand/believe/accept what was happening when they started to get worse. But I certainly hope that won’t happen for your husband and, I am very happy that he’s better!

17 years is a pretty good track record for him!

 

The doctor who told him that he was pre said it offhandedly in another discussion.

He was absolutely horrified and devastated.  He pressed her about this, and she said, well, it just means that you'll definitely have diabetes sometime in the next 10 years.  But don't worry about that, there is nothing you can do about it, but here, take this statin drug, your cholesterol (which wasn't all that high) is what I'm REALLY worried about.

 

So having seen what his parents went through, he got very depressed, and then he made these changes which have worked out great for him.

 

He is 70 now, which is older than when his mom got it by far, but younger than when his dad got it.  And he's not technically even pre at this point, which is awesome.

[Greta]

 

The vegan diet is often not given as an alternative to people at risk for/with Type 2 diabetes, even though there are studies showing it works for many people. I don't know why--doctors will say it's extreme, or they just go by the ADA, I guess. How long have you been eating plant-based, if you don't mind my nosiness?

I’m still a newbie! Went off of LC about two years ago now, but only went vegan in August. It has been wonderful! Lost weight, reduced my migraine frequency, cured my hypoglycemia, improved my messed-up hormones. And my husband paid me the sweetest compliment last week- said I look ten years younger than I did a few months ago. At first I thought he meant because of my new haircut. :lol: But he attributed it to the diet, said my skin looks healthier and I have a more youthful glow. I was certainly glowing after he said that! And it was particularly powerful to me since he had been somewhat opposed to me going vegan initially.

 

I’ve wondered about that too, and my guess is that it’s about perceived compliance - that they think people will stick to low-carb more easily than they could stick to vegan. Historically, animal foods have been available to the wealthy, while the impoverished were limited more to plant foods. And in our culture there’s kind of an unspoken belief that animal foods are critical for strength and vitality (particularly masculinity and virility). So I think that the idea of giving up animal foods is just considered too heavy a burden, while giving up carbs may not be fun but is do-able. I know that even after I had made the decision to go vegan, I was worried that I would feel weak, hungry and tired all the time. But I have not! In fact, my ability to exercise actually improved. And I feel satisfied and full after my meals (without the painful bloat that I used to get!).

[Greta]

 

..... And he's not technically even pre at this point, which is awesome.

That is indeed awesome!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I've proven this to myself. It really does not have to be crazy intense at all. Sure some people are into that, but I am not and I won't stick to anything backbreaking and I refuse to run.

 

I hate those crazy workout videos. I had a couple and after using them once I was in dire pain for several days. And during that time I could barely function let alone continue with any sort of exercise. That stuff is not meant to get a person in shape IMO. To me it's meant to be a challenge to someone already in shape. It only left me feeling like crud.

That pain goes away in a couple of weeks.

 

When I started Crossfit, I could hardly walk for a good week. Everything hurt for 2 more weeks. I lived in epsom salt baths and cuddled the foam roller.

 

2.5 months later and I’m fine even after my PT has me doing 10 second squat holds to failure + 1. I’ll have a bit of soreness if I increase weight (which I’m not allowed to do right now), but nothing that limits my day.

 

I’m hardly breaking a sweat but have seen increases in my strength and endurance. Still can’t airsquat, but I can use a 25-30lb vest and squat against the wall.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That pain goes away in a couple of weeks.

 

When I started Crossfit, I could hardly walk for a good week. Everything hurt for 2 more weeks. I lived in epsom salt baths and cuddled the foam roller.

 

2.5 months later and I’m fine even after my PT has me doing 10 second squat holds to failure + 1. I’ll have a bit of soreness if I increase weight (which I’m not allowed to do right now), but nothing that limits my day.

 

I’m hardly breaking a sweat but have seen increases in my strength and endurance. Still can’t airsquat, but I can use a 25-30lb vest and squat against the wall.

 

A couple of weeks?  But if every time I do it I'm in so much pain after I can't do it again for a week, it's pointless.  When I was younger I could recover a lot faster.  That's just not really the case anymore.  I think this can be a huge turn off to people and they'll give up. 

[ktgrok]

A couple of weeks?  But if every time I do it I'm in so much pain after I can't do it again for a week, it's pointless.  When I was younger I could recover a lot faster.  That's just not really the case anymore.  I think this can be a huge turn off to people and they'll give up. 

I get DOMS, and yes, it takes at least a week to recover. At least. And I'm in so much pain just touching my leg muscle hurts. I've tried EVERYTHING I could find on the internet to avoid this happening after the first strong workout, and nothing works. And when you have to take care of the family, etc it's really really a problem. I mean, I can't walk and bend my legs for days. It's bad. I also get really bad soreness after a firm massage, it's similar. 

 

I will say the Daily Burn True Beginner workout was much more of a TRUE beginner workout. I was a little sore, but could walk, bend my legs, etc. 

 

Edited to add: I think some people just don't get THAT sore, and don't get it. My husband doesn't, not even if he lifts heavy after a long long break. Make me so jealous. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by ktgrok

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm all for tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones.  But I have to respectfully disagree with you that the answer to insulin resistance and blood sugar control is that simple.  The reality is that meat causes an unexpectedly large release of insulin, even though it has virtually no carbs.  The leucine and glycotoxins in meat cause insulin resistance.  Saturated fats cause insulin resistance.  Heme iron (found in animal foods) is also suspected of causing insulin resistance.  Carbs are most certainly not the only culprit, and they may not even be the worst culprit.

 

I ate VLCHF/keto for 12 years.  Over the course of those 12 years, I actually become more insulin resistant:  my HA1c and fasting blood glucose numbers went up, and my body became more "reactive" to carbohydrates (more likely for my blood sugar to surge and then crash).  This occurrence is so common in the low-carb world that they've even coined a term for it:  "physiological insulin resistance".  This is to make it sound adaptive and good, like it's something different from the insulin resistance that leads to diabetes.  But is isn't.  Insulin resistance is insulin resistance.  My blood sugar stays much steadier now on my vegan/low-fat diet, and I no longer have any symptoms of hypoglycemia.  Believe me, no one could be more shocked by that than I am.  I was a HUGE believer in and proponent of low-carb diets.  

 

My hopes and intentions here are to be helpful, not argumentative or preachy.  I hope it is coming across that way.  Everyone gets to make their own choice.  Personally I just wish I'd had better information when I chose LC back in 2004.  (Because the insulin resistance wasn't the worst thing that LC did to me!)

 

Huh.  I have never heard this before.  It certainly has not been my experience.

 

My issue with "tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones" is that's pretty vague and the differences don't strike me as huge.  For example, we are told whole wheat is better than not, but if you look at the nutrition info comparing these two things it is so minutely different that I have a hard time believing that that switch is truly helpful for all people. 

 

Lot of blood sugar issues in my family.  I've always had trouble with too many carbs.  For example, if I eat oatmeal (which we are told is super healthy) I feel STARVED and shaky and horrible shortly after.  I don't feel this way with meat or eggs or most vegetables.  So these two things are not acting the same for me. 

 

I dunno.  I guess what it boils down to is that there is no one size fits all.  A huge reason I eat low carb is actually not really about health/weight, but taste.  I like the food.  I don't like the taste of most grains (minus some very overly processed ones like wheat pasta).  I would be a miserable vegan because there are too many foods in that category that I hate.  Vegetables isn't one of them, but I cannot image this really working out so well to only eat vegetables.  No diet is going to last that includes gobs of foods that one hates.  Of course I doubt I REALLY need to point this out.  LOL 

 

Maintenance is a tricky one and I think because food is so much more than fuel for many of us.  Those aspects are often not addressed.  Most of us can follow a diet and control the details for a period of time, but not much is said about what to do when the food isn't just about the fuel.  KWIM? 

[Meadowlark]

Ugh, unfortunately I know all too well that it is MUCH harder to maintain. And in my case, I couldn't maintain my loss. I have never been able to find that "sweet spot" where I'm moderately comfortable and don't feel deprived, and yet in control. Where is that spot? I've been searching for it my whole life. Either I'm eating whatever I want (and gaining fast) or I'm starving myself. I just can't find that happy medium.

 

I watched the whole video too. Honestly, all I can think about it....ONE HOUR of exercise a day? Do people really do that?

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

 

I watched the whole video too. Honestly, all I can think about it....ONE HOUR of exercise a day? Do people really do that?

 

I'm with you on that one!  I go 3-4 times per week and really that's the max in terms of what I can stand.  I WISH I could more naturally incorporate exercise/physical activity into my day, but I haven't figured that out.  My life just isn't like that.  I don't do a physical job.  I don't walk anywhere because stuff is too far, too pedestrian unfriendly, or it's too damn cold or hot.  So the one hour of exercise really is quite a bit more than one hour because I have to drive to and from the gym.  I gotta dress and undress for the gym.  And this isn't my only gig and no I don't want to get up at 5 am to go there.  Sleep is also very important.

 

I'd say I have a pretty luxurious life too because this is 10x harder for my husband.  He is chained to a desk all day.  And giving up part of his small amounts of free time to go to a stupid gym isn't his idea of fun.  I don't blame him. 

 

And I imagine our situations are pretty typical and it's a huge reason why a lot of people don't exercise or don't want to.

[Laurie4b]

Ugh, unfortunately I know all too well that it is MUCH harder to maintain. And in my case, I couldn't maintain my loss. I have never been able to find that "sweet spot" where I'm moderately comfortable and don't feel deprived, and yet in control. Where is that spot? I've been searching for it my whole life. Either I'm eating whatever I want (and gaining fast) or I'm starving myself. I just can't find that happy medium.

 

I watched the whole video too. Honestly, all I can think about it....ONE HOUR of exercise a day? Do people really do that?

 

I do. I tend to do a set-aside hour as well as other stuff during the day, but you can break it into, say three 20 min walks or two walks and a 20 min strength-training session. 

 

Exercise is truly the fountain of youth: good for cardiovascular health, best thing they know of for cognitive health, great for skin, etc. 

[lewber]

I exercise an hour most days. It's the only way I am active. But what I've noticed from wearing my Fitbit is that I burn more calories if I get my steps in throughout the day vs sedentary and then 1 hour of exercise. I've also realized that the calorie difference (for me) in walking 1 hour, which I enjoy and am happy to do most days, and working out hard, which I don't enjoy and usually avoid, Isn't enough to matter. For me, being consistently active pays off. Given that my job and lifestyle is sedentary, this was eye opening to me.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One thing I've enjoyed is watching movies while on the treadmill.  So I look at it as my time to go and enjoy some movies rather than suffer on the treadmill.  LOL

 

I do feel pretty good after exercising so I find it is worthwhile.  It took a long time to get to that point though.  For a long time I only felt miserable. 

[Greta]

Huh. I have never heard this before. It certainly has not been my experience.

Yes, I wouldn’t expect it to be everyone’s experience. It is a trend, or a tendency. I can provide some links if it’s something you’re interested in reading more about, but no worries if you’re not.

 

My issue with "tossing processed carbs in favor of whole ones" is that's pretty vague and the differences don't strike me as huge. For example, we are told whole wheat is better than not, but if you look at the nutrition info comparing these two things it is so minutely different that I have a hard time believing that that switch is truly helpful for all people.

The difference in the way they affect me is larger than I would think given the difference in the numbers. I realize that’s personal anecdote and not evidence. But there is some interesting evidence being discovered about how much the fiber in your diet affects your health by virtue of the fact that it creates a population of very beneficial bacteria in your gut, bacteria which may help protect us from disease. And I also think that refined versus whole is *part* of the equation. I don’t think it’s the entire answer to obesity, diabetes, etc. (And by “whole†I just mean fruit rather than fruit juice, whole and preferably intact grains rather than refined flours, no white sugar or corn syrup, pretty basic things like that.)

 

Lot of blood sugar issues in my family. I've always had trouble with too many carbs. For example, if I eat oatmeal (which we are told is super healthy) I feel STARVED and shaky and horrible shortly after. I don't feel this way with meat or eggs or most vegetables. So these two things are not acting the same for me.

I understand. In fact, I’ve been there. What I discovered much to my own surprise was that for me (and I don’t know that this would be true for you) this was conditional.. If I am eating meat and dairy, then I am starved and shaky and feeling horrible shortly after eating something carby. But when I made the switch to a carb-based, low-fat diet, my carb tolerance actually increased, pretty much the opposite of what you would expect! The first time that a diabetic friend of mine told me that fat raised her blood glucose more than carbs, I thought she was crazy. Turns out, she’s not crazy, and also not alone.

 

I have a family history of diabetes, and it was my concern about that which sent me on the LC path to begin with. So I just wanted to say I can definitely see where you’re coming from. And if it’s working for you, I’m not going to try to change your mind!

 

 

I dunno. I guess what it boils down to is that there is no one size fits all. A huge reason I eat low carb is actually not really about health/weight, but taste. I like the food. I don't like the taste of most grains (minus some very overly processed ones like wheat pasta). I would be a miserable vegan because there are too many foods in that category that I hate. Vegetables isn't one of them, but I cannot image this really working out so well to only eat vegetables. No diet is going to last that includes gobs of foods that one hates. Of course I doubt I REALLY need to point this out. LOL

 

Maintenance is a tricky one and I think because food is so much more than fuel for many of us. Those aspects are often not addressed. Most of us can follow a diet and control the details for a period of time, but not much is said about what to do when the food isn't just about the fuel. KWIM?

Yes, I definitely see what you’re saying here. I love starchy foods like bread, potatoes, and such. And I absolutely LOVE fruit. I joke sometimes that I didn’t just go vegan, I went frugivore, because I eat 6-9 servings of fruit a day. So veganism is a good fit for my tastebuds. Though, to be honest, I never considered myself to be a huge vegetable person. I still don’t care for leafy greens all that much, but I make myself eat them because Dr. Gregor convinced me that they’re that important. But other than that, my appreciation for vegetables actually increased when I went vegan. I never in a million years would have dreamed that I could be the kind of person who would crave plain, raw carrot sticks, or who would go crazy with happiness when the grocery store has fresh okra, but here I am. :D I think to a certain extend your tastes adapt to your diet. But to what extent I couldn’t say. Some people love (or hate) the same foods their entire lives. Edited January 2, 2018 by Greta

[amo_mea_filiis.]

A couple of weeks? But if every time I do it I'm in so much pain after I can't do it again for a week, it's pointless. When I was younger I could recover a lot faster. That's just not really the case anymore. I think this can be a huge turn off to people and they'll give up.

You do something a bit different while recovering. Prior to PT and figuring out how to squat without intense pain (still modified), I would just do what didn’t hurt. For whatever odd reason, box step ups were always ok. So that was my go-to when my legs were dead. When my shoulders and chest are sore and the workout calls for pushups, I do them on the wall. If ring rows are included, I just don’t go so low.

 

It really did get better.