"Have your child on a career track by age 11"

[blondeviolin]

I'm not against kids choosing a career early...

 

My oldest is 11, however. And she doesn't get to pick what she's learning right now. She gets to tell me which curriculum she likes best and pores over samples with me. But it's required at our house that she will take math, grammar, Latin, writing, history, science. All of my kids will. Because at 11 you really have no clue what you wanna be and a classical education has served the large majority of influential people very well and was the norm up until the last hundred years or so. In high school she can cover the basics and use her spare time volunteering in fields that interest her. At least, that's my plan, hopefully.

[ScoutTN]

Dd is 12 and wants to write fantasy novels and train dogs. 

Ds is 10 and wants to play pro football or write comic books. 

 

:D

 

[Pen]

nm

Edited October 27, 2017 by Pen

[3 ladybugs]

I think this runs in families. My FIL knew what he wanted to be in grade school. He looked up in the sky and saw airplanes and said he wanted to work on those. He just retired from Boeing where was high up in the engineering department. He has several degrees with a PhD in artificial intelligence. My DH loved insects and playing with them and experimenting with them as a child. He got his PhD in biochemistry. 

 

When my 9 year old was 9 months old, I needed to help my husband with something and put him in a bouncy seat in front of the TV when NASCAR was on. He squealed with delight. At about a year old we would go on walks and he would point at the cars and want to know their make. We told him. Then he wanted to know the model. So we told him. I have altered how I homeschool him to reflect what he wants to do (and has said so for years) and that is become an automotive designer. That is the reason why he is learning German. Germany is still a big country in the automotive world. 

 

I like to think that the world is an oyster for my 9 year old to open and discover what he wants to become, but I am a realist and he will be an automotive engineer regardless of what I want him to be or how open minded I would like him to be about his career choice. 

 

On the other hand, my 4 year old wants to be a doctor/fire fighter/army man/ police officer. So I do have a less driven child as well.  :lol:

[kewb]

Well, I missed the boat on a career track by 11. I think some kids show a passion and an apptitude for a career at an early age. And that's great for those kids. Others take longer to find their passion and that is okay, too.

The stance of a career track by 11 relates to one's philosophy about the purpose of education.

Edited October 27, 2017 by kewb

[Dmmetler]

I would say this is only the case in the sense of "If your child really loves STEM, they probably should start Pre-Algebra/Algebra in middle school and make sure they're on the path to more advanced science classes, if your child wants to write, they need to be getting a lot of opportunities to do that and reading a lot of awesome literature, etc. Basically make sure you're not closing any doors that might need to be open.

 

In my DD's case, she has planned to be a herpetologist for years. I kind of feel like I'm WEDGING the doors open at times-don't get stuck on the idea that what you decided to be at age 6 is your defining characteristic for your entire life.

 

 

[MistyMountain]

I have one child that has a definite interest and passion early and I can see him sticking with it and two that I see changing interests more. I would not want to hold a child to that though. I think in any field it is good to have a well rounded, well read individual with background knowledge in science and history. If they tend towards science or math interests then trying to get to advanced math and science before going to college will really help towards that. If that is not possible though because a kid is a late bloomer or just needs more time or has some difficulty then you do the best you can.

 

Most 11 year olds will change their minds and refine their interests a goals as they mature. I would hate doing what I wanted to at 11. We also live in a changing world. I do not think steering an 11 year old towards one career is wise. Let kids explore their passion and talk about ways of meeting goals and not letting setbacks hold them back.

Edited October 27, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Pen]

(my revised post)

 

 

I think expecting an 11yo to be headed toward a specific career on a path that will not deviate from that is unreasonable for most / many 11yos -- and also possibly not in keeping with a rapidly changing world of careers that may even exist.

 

However, I think having an 11yo guided into an idea that s/he will eventually be working at some career / job / work, and trying to figure out realistically what sort of work might fit the child well, and looking into what is needed to get there is reasonable  beneficial.

 

By 11, decisions may be being made that are going to significantly start closing some doors / or perhaps opening other doors. 

 

I also see directionlessness (or impossible or unrealistic goals) heading into teens (and 11yo is heading into teens) as being a potential risk factor for drifting aimlessly into negative peer groups, addictions, depression, or other problems.

 

 

 

 

I think the British documentary film 7 UP is very interesting--the first of the series--as they ask the 7yo children being interviewed what they are going to be when they grow up or about higher education.  And then looking at what happens when they do grow up.  Although class, gender, and chance like getting sick do play important roles, career aims at 7yo were often realized in adulthood, or if missed (like the boy who wants to be a professional jockey) at least seem to have given a life direction that goes somewhere.

 

 

 

For a reaction to the person who told you, OP, that, I'd probably ask for her ideas on specifically how to talk with, explore, and guide a child into finding a good, realistic career path that would be motivating and engaging to the dc.

 

And if you do that, I'd love it if you'd share her ideas with us.

[Pen]

I have one child that has a definite interest and passion early and I can see him sticking with it and two that I see changing interests more. I would not want to hold a child to that though. I think in any field it is good to have a well rounded, well read individual with background knowledge in science and history. If they tend towards science or math interests then trying to get to advanced math and science before going to college will really help towards that. If that is not possible though because a kid is a late bloomer or just needs more time or has some difficulty then you do the best you can.

 

Most 11 year olds will change their minds and refine their interests a goals as they mature. I would hate doing what I wanted to at 11. We also live in a changing world. I do not think steering an 11 year old towards one career is wise. Let kids explore their passion and talk about ways of meeting goals and not letting setbacks hold them back.

 

 

I agree with you about not steering an 11yo towards one career.

 

Most WTMers are fairly motivated and have a pretty high level of general education being offered and achieved.  This is probably not typical of most people though.

 

At what point would you start helping dc to realize that being a superhero is not generally a irl career choice if the dc has not figured that out on his/her own?

 

How would you deal with a preteen / teen with no passions to explore?

 

Or what if a preteen / teen with good, but not amazing, basketball or football skills has his heart set on his passion of being a professional player and avoids completing or focus on academics (which the child might be good at, but finds dull) because of belief in his ultimate success as a ballplayer?

[MistyMountain]

I talked about a well rounded high level of education no matter what the field in the first paragraph. Lots of kids do not know what they want to do or have an unrealistic expectation. I would hope people would not educate a child to a high standard for that child because they did not have great ambitions as a youth. I would be honest if my kid as they got older had an unrealistic expectation on what they wanted to do. I would hope to have open communication so I could help them pick something realistic. I would not be too worried if a kid had no passions and did not know what they wanted to be as a teen or preteen. Some people start college not even knowing and eventually figure it out. Not everyone has a passion and that is perfectly fine but you can talk about interests and possibible things they can do in the future and encourage them to try things and read a lot. I would also make sure they are not spending too much time on media.

Edited October 27, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Rosika]

I think the British documentary film 7 UP is very interesting--the first of the series--as they ask the 7yo children being interviewed what they are going to be when they grow up or about higher education.  And then looking at what happens when they do grow up.  Although class, gender, and chance like getting sick do play important roles, career aims at 7yo were often realized in adulthood, or if missed (like the boy who wants to be a professional jockey) at least seem to have given a life direction that goes somewhere.

 

 

I LOVED that series - fascinating, and fun to predict outcomes for each (and to actually get to see if you guessed correctly!) I wish someone would repeat a documentary like it now. The movie Boy, or Boyhood, whatever it was called, came close. I liked that one, too, other than it was fictional. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned this! I watched it years ago in a sociology class. If I can find it online, it'd make a great winter viewing this January, with the kids. :) 

[luuknam]

I haven't read the thread yet, but I think this is excellent advice for people who still live in the 1500s. 

[Guest]

I don’t even know what MY career path is...

[Lanny]

My reaction to that would have been very bad...   I believe one should delay selecting a career, until they know more about the different career possibilities and their interests. My DD may well end up selecting a STEM career. However, I suggested to her that she not begin to contemplate that, until she completes Physics, which she is taking now.  She has many interests. I told her, it is best if one can work at something they enjoy. Also, something that is not cyclical.  By 11, some children may know exactly what they want to do for the rest of their life. Many children will not have a clue.

[luuknam]

I find it interesting to think about what that might mean for the kids psychologically.  I can imagine, for example, that some of the aimlessness of the middle school years might be lessened if you were actually in training for the real work of your life.

 

 

If you were, maybe. But if you want to be a medical examiner at 11 (yes, I read too much Robin Cook when I was a kid), and you have to get through secondary school, and then 6 years of medical school*, and then specific ME training, then I don't think knowing you want to be an ME is going to make any real difference. Now, if you could condense all that and get onto some premed track in middle school so that instead of spending 6 years on grades 7-12 + 6 years on medical school = 12 years, you maybe spend 2 years on premed and then 6 years on medical school = 8 years, then that might help. But that's unlikely to happen. So, you still have this huge pile of unrelated boring stuff that you have to get through. Radical acceleration is the only real option in that case (and might have been a good idea). Or, I suppose we could give 11yos internships in the morgue, handing scalpels and saws to MEs... yeah, I don't think that's going to happen either. 

 

*Medical school in NL is 6 years immediately following high school. In the American system, the above scenario is even worse, because you'd have 6 years of 7-12th grade, and then 4 years of premed, and then 4 years of med school = 14 years, and then ME training. I can't imagine that many 11yos feel super motivated in middle school knowing they've got many more years of schooling ahead than they've currently been on the planet. 

 

Actually, what I tried to do was skip 9th grade (I did), and then after completing 10th grade, I tried to switch to a bachelor's degree program for biomedical lab work, and after completing the first year of that, it would've been possible to switch to a related university program (though quite probably pretty impossible to get into med school using that route, since med school had a GPA based lottery to get in... I'd already decided by then to do biomedical research, not be an ME). However, while a couple of years before I finished 10th grade that move would still have been possible (10th grade of pre-university track -> bachelor's program at college... going to university after completing one year of a related bachelor's degree program at college is still possible), they'd just banned that, so, that wasn't an option. So, bringing that back might be an idea. Almost no-one was aware that that was even possible, so it's not like a lot of kids were dropping out of high school to go to college. If that had still been possible, my secondary/tertiary path would've looked like this:

 

7th grade (12yo)

8th grade (13yo)

skip 9th grade

10th grade (14yo) 

first year of bachelor's program in biomedical lab work at a college (15yo) (nope, made illegal just a couple of years prior)

first year of 4 or 5 year master's degree program in biomedical science (16yo) (yes, it used to be that after the pre-university track in high school, kids would go to university and be in a 4 year (or for some STEM specialties 5 year) program that leads to a master's degree). 

 

So, that would've shaved both time off before starting at university, AND gotten me into classes related to biomedical science sooner. But nooooo... kids need to be well-rounded, i.e. take forever before they can start a career in the field they want. It was a huge, huge, huge disappointment when I found out that they closed that option just a couple of years before, and probably contributed to my despair etc in the remainder of high school. 

 

Knowing what you want to do isn't helpful if the goal is too far off in the future and what you're currently doing is not all that related. 

[luuknam]

Anyway, wrt the OP's question, it made me think of the Brainy Bunch, who think most kids can start college at 12. If you think that most kids can start college at 12, then it's not so odd to have your kid on a career track at 11. That said, I don't think most kids should be in college at 12 (not sure how I feel about ability... I wouldn't be shocked if you tiger parent an average kid you could get them ready for community college or a meh university at 12, but I don't know). And IF I were to have a kid who could benefit from college at 12, I'd probably encourage the kid to double major in two things that aren't closely related (they could be completely unrelated, or both be STEM fields or w/e, but not something like math and physics... I mean, I'm not against doubling majoring in math and physics or w/e, but I mean that I'd encourage the kid to not be hyperfocused on one thing if they're that young - sometimes discoveries/inventions are made by people knowing a completely different field and making interesting connections, and if nothing else, if the job market for their one interest completely implodes, they'll still have something else to fall back on. 

 

My own 10yo says he doesn't know what he wants to be... a few months ago though he was interested in environmental engineering (or any kind of engineering with the goal of making things more environmentally friendly) and math. Oh well, he's still got a year to decide. :rolleyes: My almost 7yo has talked for a couple of years I think about wanting to become a programmer, and when I asked tonight he mentioned that, but he also mentioned wanting to become a writer and a chef. So, I guess I'll have to prepare him with a good amount of college prep and life skills... not a bad plan (btw, he's very picky, so chef is probably not realistic, but, the kid is 6, not 11, so, w/e :lol: ). 

 

Not that I think the person OP talked to was thinking college at 12, but who knows. Bunny trails are fun, right?

[luuknam]

And IF I were to have a kid who could benefit from college at 12, I'd probably encourage the kid to double major in two things that aren't closely related 

 

 

And by 'encourage', I mean 'encourage'... I wouldn't force them on a career track, or two career tracks, or w/e. That said, I would strongly encourage them to at least get a degree in *something*, because that piece of paper is useful for all those jobs that require a bachelor's degree just for the sake of weeding out people.

[J-rap]

I remember when my dd was being evaluated to have speech therapy through the PS system in 5th grade, she was asked to fill out a form where one part asked her to explain her career plans.  We were filling it out together.  We just looked at that part and laughed.  (And left it blank.)

 

 

[creekland]

If you were, maybe. But if you want to be a medical examiner at 11 (yes, I read too much Robin Cook when I was a kid), and you have to get through secondary school, and then 6 years of medical school*, and then specific ME training, then I don't think knowing you want to be an ME is going to make any real difference. Now, if you could condense all that and get onto some premed track in middle school so that instead of spending 6 years on grades 7-12 + 6 years on medical school = 12 years, you maybe spend 2 years on premed and then 6 years on medical school = 8 years, then that might help. But that's unlikely to happen. So, you still have this huge pile of unrelated boring stuff that you have to get through. Radical acceleration is the only real option in that case (and might have been a good idea). Or, I suppose we could give 11yos internships in the morgue, handing scalpels and saws to MEs... yeah, I don't think that's going to happen either. 

 

*Medical school in NL is 6 years immediately following high school. In the American system, the above scenario is even worse, because you'd have 6 years of 7-12th grade, and then 4 years of premed, and then 4 years of med school = 14 years, and then ME training. I can't imagine that many 11yos feel super motivated in middle school knowing they've got many more years of schooling ahead than they've currently been on the planet. 

 

Actually, what I tried to do was skip 9th grade (I did), and then after completing 10th grade, I tried to switch to a bachelor's degree program for biomedical lab work, and after completing the first year of that, it would've been possible to switch to a related university program (though quite probably pretty impossible to get into med school using that route, since med school had a GPA based lottery to get in... I'd already decided by then to do biomedical research, not be an ME). However, while a couple of years before I finished 10th grade that move would still have been possible (10th grade of pre-university track -> bachelor's program at college... going to university after completing one year of a related bachelor's degree program at college is still possible), they'd just banned that, so, that wasn't an option. So, bringing that back might be an idea. Almost no-one was aware that that was even possible, so it's not like a lot of kids were dropping out of high school to go to college. If that had still been possible, my secondary/tertiary path would've looked like this:

 

7th grade (12yo)

8th grade (13yo)

skip 9th grade

10th grade (14yo) 

first year of bachelor's program in biomedical lab work at a college (15yo) (nope, made illegal just a couple of years prior)

first year of 4 or 5 year master's degree program in biomedical science (16yo) (yes, it used to be that after the pre-university track in high school, kids would go to university and be in a 4 year (or for some STEM specialties 5 year) program that leads to a master's degree). 

 

So, that would've shaved both time off before starting at university, AND gotten me into classes related to biomedical science sooner. But nooooo... kids need to be well-rounded, i.e. take forever before they can start a career in the field they want. It was a huge, huge, huge disappointment when I found out that they closed that option just a couple of years before, and probably contributed to my despair etc in the remainder of high school. 

 

Knowing what you want to do isn't helpful if the goal is too far off in the future and what you're currently doing is not all that related. 

 

I'm sorry you "had" to take all those boring classes and time, but IMHO kids should be well-rounded.  My current med school lad tested at the 12th grade level for reading in 4th grade (age 9).  He was getting college offers in 10th grade and easily had an ACT score that would make many swoon by then.  We saw no need to push him.  We let him be a kid/teen and enjoy life.  He went to college on a regular schedule and enjoyed the journey so much that he opted to take an optional Take 5 year at his University - a year tuition free offered to students who want to study something completely unrelated to their major (not room and board free, though he was an RA so his room was free).  He graduated Summa Cum Laude with two majors, two minors, and his Take 5.  He loved every minute of it and was a bit nostalgic at it all ending at graduation.  Now he's in med school and enjoying it too.

 

Nothing was lost - certainly not time. He's enjoyed the journey.  Life (to us) isn't all about getting into "work" ASAP.  We love learning, exploring, extra curriculars, and so much along the way.  Of course, a good part of this is finding the right college for the student.  He had so much at his fingertips where he went that it was fun.  If it'd all been a repeat with few chances to research along the way or something, his story could have been different I suspect.

 

I'm glad my guys have enjoyed their journeys through childhood, teenhood, college, and into adult life.  My med school lad knew what he wanted since third grade (age 8).  My other two had no real idea and have changed their minds in college.  So far, two out of three have graduated and are doing just fine.  My youngest has job offers already to choose from upon graduation, so I'm pretty sure he will do fine too.  Absolutely NO need to rush rather than smelling the roses along the way.

 

If we had had to put down a career track in middle school it would have merely said "college" track.  For us, a college degree is the minimum (assuming academically capable kids).  What they do beyond that is up to them.  What they do in college is up to them.  They don't have to use their college degrees to be successful to us.  We just want well rounded adults.  ;)

Edited October 28, 2017 by creekland

[mommyoffive]

I'm sorry you "had" to take all those boring classes and time, but IMHO kids should be well-rounded.  My current med school lad tested at the 12th grade level for reading in 4th grade (age 9).  He was getting college offers in 10th grade and easily had an ACT score that would make many swoon by then.  We saw no need to push him.  We let him be a kid/teen and enjoy life.  He went to college on a regular schedule and enjoyed the journey so much that he opted to take an optional Take 5 year at his University - a year tuition free offered to students who want to study something completely unrelated to their major (not room and board free, though he was an RA so his room was free).  He graduated Summa Cum Laude with two majors, two minors, and his Take 5.  He loved every minute of it and was a bit nostalgic at it all ending at graduation.  Now he's in med school and enjoying it too.

 

Nothing was lost - certainly not time. He's enjoyed the journey.  Life (to us) isn't all about getting into "work" ASAP.  We love learning, exploring, extra curriculars, and so much along the way.  Of course, a good part of this is finding the right college for the student.  He had so much at his fingertips where he went that it was fun.  If it'd all been a repeat with few chances to research along the way or something, his story could have been different I suspect.

 

I'm glad my guys have enjoyed their journeys through childhood, teenhood, college, and into adult life.  My med school lad knew what he wanted since third grade (age 8).  My other two had no real idea and have changed their minds in college.  So far, two out of three have graduated and are doing just fine.  My youngest has job offers already to choose from upon graduation, so I'm pretty sure he will do fine too.  Absolutely NO need to rush rather than smelling the roses along the way.

 

If we had had to put down a career track in middle school it would have merely said "college" track.  For us, a college degree is the minimum (assuming academically capable kids).  What they do beyond that is up to them.  What they do in college is up to them.  They don't have to use their college degrees to be successful to us.  We just want well rounded adults.  ;)

 

Wow, what school is that?  That is such an amazing thing.  

[creekland]

Wow, what school is that?  That is such an amazing thing.  

 

The University of Rochester

 

https://www.rochester.edu/aboutus/

 

https://www.rochester.edu/college/CCAS/undergraduate/opportunities/takefive/

 

I should note that while this can be an expensive school, it turned out to be the least expensive of the schools my guy applied to after a combo of merit and need-based aid was added - a couple thousand less. This includes the University of Alabama and Pittsburgh (his safeties).

 

With his stats, my guy could have gone to some schools where his education would have been free or nearly free, but upon looking at those, they didn't have the same caliber of opportunities for him to study and research, so he didn't apply.  I'm sure he could have gotten into med school from any of them, but we wanted him to enjoy the journey.  It was worth paying some for (to us).  FWIW, he had a peer who chose this route who ended up envious of the opportunities my guy had.  That lad is in med school now a year ahead of my guy (no Take 5), so if one only wants to "rush to work," then it's a possibility.

[Lecka]

My son was asked about this in 6th grade, and basically as soon as he said things expressing that he expected to attend college, it was like ---- "okay, we're good here."

 

So my impression is it is more for kids who in middle school need encouragement to picture themselves as potentially attending college.

 

And so they want to connect middle school to the future so kids will have more motivation and connection to their homework.

 

I think it seems nice. But we are definitely not getting any pressure-cooker stuff or undue pressure.

 

I would say that where we have moved -- a fair number of kids don't see themselves attending college and are starting to check out of school.

 

Where we moved from, at elementary school at least it was taken for granted by everyone that all students were on a college track. The demographics aren't that way here.

[Hannah]

It's interesting that children are often asked, "what do you want to be?", but rarely "what kind of business do you want to start?". 

 

My dh and I went to university and have professional careers in corporates.  In our country, the opportunities for a career in a company is going to be limited for our girls.

I have no idea how to identify a business opportunity.  How does one teach this to children? 

[Hannah]

It's interesting that children are often asked, "what do you want to be?", but rarely "what kind of business do you want to start?". 

 

My dh and I went to university and have professional careers in corporates.  In our country, the opportunities for a career in a company is going to be limited for our girls.

I have no idea how to identify a business opportunity.  How does one teach this to children? 

[luuknam]

I'm sorry you "had" to take all those boring classes and time, but IMHO kids should be well-rounded.  

 

Nothing was lost - certainly not time. He's enjoyed the journey.  Life (to us) isn't all about getting into "work" ASAP. 

 

 

Look, my answer was in the context of Bluegoat saying that it might reduce aimlessness in middle school. I'm not saying that *all* kids should be getting into work ASAP or w/e - I'm glad the system worked well for your son. But I don't think that knowing what you want to be at 11 is going to reduce middle school aimlessness for most kids if anything concretely career-related is still a decade or w/e away. And I don't think traditional secondary school is the only way to becoming a well-rounded person. Some people read broadly etc for fun, plus, plenty of kids have an "in one ear, out the other", "cram and forget" kind of attitude to classes meant to make them well-rounded, so I'm not even convinced that it really works to make people well-rounded. But it is a fact that historically, many teens were doing specific career training in apprenticeships at a much younger age than today, and I think that some teens probably could really benefit from something like that. Which isn't the same as locking them into one career for the rest of their lives - aren't there statistics that show that many, many adults work in fields unrelated to their college major?

 

So... secondary school is great for some kids. It's not great for other kids. I think it's good to have other pathways. I'm not 100% sure of what pathways, concretely speaking... I think that for some kids, it's pretty obvious how improvements can be made, such as the kids who don't want to go to college but are forced onto the "everyone takes college prep" track being given a more vocational track, where they can learn welding or w/e in high school, or have different high school durations where the lowest track is done after 10th grade and kids can get a pre-trade school high school diploma and go to trade school in 11th grade, or w/e (and yes, if you do that, you might want to make trade school free, and make some sort of learning (trade school, more high school, apprenticeships approved by the state, etc) required of people until they turn 18, so they don't just go flip burgers after they finish 10th grade... it'd be better than people dropping out of high school at 16 or w/e because college prep is not working for them). I'm not entirely sure about potential pathways for other kids. But just because the system works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all, and it's not just some vo-tech kids who could benefit from other pathways.

 

ETA: and no clue why you have "had" in quotes... please do explain what alternatives I had, keeping in mind Dutch law circa 2000.

Edited October 28, 2017 by luuknam

[Saddlemomma]

Haven't read the other responses, but I think it's CRAZY to think kids know what they want to do for the rest of their lives at 18 even!

 

Funny revelation about my own life (to me anyway).  As a kid, I was always asked what I wanted to be when I grew up.  I always answered, "a big sister that cooks."  Now, no one knew what that meant.  Many, including my parents, theorized I wanted to be come a nun.  This was strange since my family was not religious at all, but I always, unbeknownst to them, believed in God from the time I became aware.

 

Anyway, as I approached high school graduation, I didn't know what career I wanted.  The few friends I had were all going off to college with lofty plans for their dream career.  Out walking one day, I decided I was going to go to a business school, train as a secretary so I could work and earn an income while I decided what to do with the rest of my life. 

 

At my five-year reunion, it seemed that most everyone I talked to, had dropped out of college and turned to something else, like insurance salesmen or work in a library, etc. In my case, it turns out, I had quite a natural talent for formal writing.  All my bosses asked me to either write their correspondence or "fix" it. I did quite well as a secretary and moved up to a very high position in a bank many years later. This was in the days when it was acknowledged that you could be intelligent without a college degree and move up with on-the-job experience. I very intentionally learned about every aspect and department of banking to make sure I could fill in anywhere I was needed (except tellering - didn't want to to that).

 

In 2000 I had become a Christian and had my second DD in 2002.  I quite my job when she was four and became a homeschooler.  One day while cooking dinner, I just started laughing because, at that point, I realized I had achieved my dream career.  I was a big sister (sister in Christ) that cooks!  What a hoot!

 

 

[creekland]

So... secondary school is great for some kids. It's not great for other kids. I think it's good to have other pathways. I'm not 100% sure of what pathways, concretely speaking... I think that for some kids, it's pretty obvious how improvements can be made, such as the kids who don't want to go to college but are forced onto the "everyone takes college prep" track being given a more vocational track, where they can learn welding or w/e in high school, or have different high school durations where the lowest track is done after 10th grade and kids can get a pre-trade school high school diploma and go to trade school in 11th grade, or w/e (and yes, if you do that, you might want to make trade school free, and make some sort of learning (trade school, more high school, apprenticeships approved by the state, etc) required of people until they turn 18, so they don't just go flip burgers after they finish 10th grade... it'd be better than people dropping out of high school at 16 or w/e because college prep is not working for them). I'm not entirely sure about potential pathways for other kids. But just because the system works for some kids, doesn't mean it works for all, and it's not just some vo-tech kids who could benefit from other pathways.

 

ETA: and no clue why you have "had" in quotes... please do explain what alternatives I had, keeping in mind Dutch law circa 2000.

 

I agree with you completely on this.  College is not the track for every student - not even every college-capable student.  Trades are a good option for many.  Our high school offers a trade track, including learning welding, etc, while in high school.  There are oodles of options.  If someone is in middle school and picks a "trade" career plan, I see nothing wrong with it.  I just don't think kids need to know exactly what they want to do at age 11 - or 18.  By 18 they need to have an idea of where to start - what to do after high school - but they can still change their minds.  Even at 30 or 40 or 50 someone can change their mind to a large extent.

 

I would only have issues with youngsters telling me they plan to live in the basement or under the boardwalk and play video games (or live on welfare, or plan a life of crime, etc).

 

"Had" was in quotes because I agree with all kids having to have a rounded education regardless of how much they end up remembering.  Even cramming creates a neuron in the brain that could be dusted off later.  ;)  Nothing more.  I really dislike a limited (or specifically directed) education for the young.  I want them to be exposed to many things - not knowing what they will like for one thing and just having at least a minimum of an education in many subjects for another.  I like the idea that any US educated doctor had to get an undergrad degree first - showing they have what it takes to delve into any specific subject they like.  I want them to have that discipline and to be educated about "something" prior to med school.  The extra years add plentiful life lessons outside of academics too.  I want more maturity that often comes from those life lessons.

 

YMMV

[IsabelC]

Well, I am in my 40s, and have only developed career aspirations in the last few years  :lol: