My dss16

[regentrude]

Wait, how many calories are in a squirrel? Fat grams?

 

3.2 g of fat and 21 g of protein in 100g of squirrel. And lots of minerals and vitamins.

Very nutritious.

 

https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Game_meat%2C_raw%2C_squirrel_nutritional_value.html

Edited September 5, 2017 by regentrude

[Scarlett]

Does he like the eating plan the doctor suggested?

 

I'm curious about what the doctor recommended, because he has personal experience with having lost a lot of weight and he has kept it off for years. It would seem that he is a good person to be working with your dss.

 

 

It is a low carb plan.  The doctor talked to him about how much of his plate should be meat, how much veggie,  how much starch, how much good fat.  The plan recommends limiting dairy but not going low fat anything. I agree with that.  I don't buy low fat anything.

[unsinkable]

Wait, how many calories are in a squirrel? Fat grams?

Red squirrel? Or gray? Or grey???

[DawnM]

-- some people are equating this young man to an alcoholic and saying he won't be able to resist a carton of ice cream in the freezer because he is so addicted to food. I haven't seen any evidence of that, either.

 

 

 

Since I am the one who equated food to alcohol first, I think I need to address it.  I said it "could be a trigger" and I said it was for me.

 

If I am given a choice between an apple and a slice of cake......well, I will pick the 400 calorie small slice of cake over the 80 calorie apple.....EVERY time.  

 

Yup, I will.  It isn't that I can never have it or never have it in the house, but it can trigger sugar cravings for me.

I thought perhaps it might for him as well.

[Catwoman]

Wait, how many calories are in a squirrel? Fat grams?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

It scares me to think that someone probably knows the answer to that. :ack2:

[DawnM]

Red squirrel? Or gray? Or grey???

 

Well, I think most of ours are gray/grey.  

 

But those cute black ones up in Canada look mighty tasty.  

[Scarlett]

It worked to lose some of the weight , but the early losses are the easiest and often come with any shift to more mindful eating.

It seems as if there might not be enough information to assume it would be a successful program for him the longer term.  (And there is the added concern that he will need an approach he can sustain after the extra weight is gone.

 

 

I agree not enough info to know if it would work long term.  He likes the idea of the low carb plan....but again it only works if he follows it.  

[Catwoman]

Since I am the one who equated food to alcohol first, I think I need to address it. I said it "could be a trigger" and I said it was for me.

 

If I am given a choice between an apple and a slice of cake......well, I will pick the 400 calorie small slice of cake over the 80 calorie apple.....EVERY time.

 

Yup, I will. It isn't that I can never have it or never have it in the house, but it can trigger sugar cravings for me.

I thought perhaps it might for him as well.

I think you made perfect sense -- and I will pick the cake every time, too! :)

 

I wasn't thinking of your post when I was typing. I felt that a few people (not you) were assuming that equating food with alcohol was absolutely true in the case of Scarlett's dss, and I thought it was going a bit too far to make that kind of diagnosis because none of us knows the kid and we really have no idea what he's thinking or feeling.

 

It could absolutely be true that Scarlett's dss has that kind of problem with food, and I'm not discounting that possibility, but I'm also not at the point where I'm willing to say he definitely does have the problem. I think it was smart of you to bring up the possibility, though, because it's something Scarlett should discuss with her dss.

[Catwoman]

Red squirrel? Or gray? Or grey???

  

Well, I think most of ours are gray/grey.  

 

But those cute black ones up in Canada look mighty tasty.

 

Troublemakers!!!!! :rofl:

[DawnM]

  

Troublemakers!!!!! :rofl:

 

I neither confirm nor deny that accusation.

[Scarlett]

It has been one week since his doctor visit and honestly it has been one of the worst weeks ever for us.  So many things happened.  Dh was sick and missed two days of work.  And then had to go to the doctor Friday.  I had to take my son to the doctor wednesday after work.  Our friend's child had the horrific accident so we made at least 2 trips into the city to see him.  I had to take dss back for his blood work Thursday morning and he almost passed out. It was just a heck of a week for us.  So I have not had the time I need to sit down and go over that weight loss plan with him.

 

School started back for dss today.

 

Dh and I were talking today about dss's continued lack of exercising.  Dh has him doing a chore outside this afternoon that will use some physical energy.....We really  have to come up with something he can/will do consistently.  I talked to him about the gym and the circuit training classes they have there....he didn't seem too interested.

 

And also he needs to get his license.  I am pushing him to do that.  

[Annie G]

3.2 g of fat and 21 g of protein in 100g of squirrel. And lots of minerals and vitamins.

Very nutritious.

 

https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Game_meat%2C_raw%2C_squirrel_nutritional_value.html

 

Someone should tell Cousin Eddie the nutrition info.  In Christmas Vacation his wife says he no longer eats squirrels because they are too high in cholesterol.  

 

But for real, my nephew still hunts and eats squirrels all the time.  He's quite healthy. 

[Scarlett]

Dh talked to dss's mom about the doctor visit.  It immediately went into a discussion about her high blood pressure.   :rolleyes:   But she did tell dh she would do her best to keep healthy food choices in her house for when dss visits her.

[Pen]

He made meatballs one night for us.  I know how delicious those meatballs are and how difficult it is to not eat some while cooking them.  So I asked him how many he had while cooking.  2 he said.  :)  Let me tell you they are HUGE meatballs too.  2 is plenty for me.  Ds even only ate 4 of them.  

 

So yes that can be a problem.  I sometimes wish he wanted to do something different for a living....but I don't know if it would make a difference for him.  

 

 

Actually, depending on the program, it might help if he got into culinary school sooner rather than later.  An excellent school may help teach how to do it right.

 

And the right sort of cuisine might help.  Perhaps he could even specialize in cooking for food issues type of cuisine.

 

Has he seen How to Cook your Life?

 

Might gardening -- flowers or maybe even better a kitchen garden -- be a form of some exercise that would appeal to him?

[Bootsie]

WW worked for dss.  But he said he didn't want to continue it.  

Did he say why he didn't want to continue it?  His reasons might be a clue as to what he will find helpful and what he will not find helpful.  Was there any part of WW that he found helpful that could be continued in a different way? 

[Scarlett]

Did he say why he didn't want to continue it?  His reasons might be a clue as to what he will find helpful and what he will not find helpful.  Was there any part of WW that he found helpful that could be continued in a different way? 

 

 

He said he got tired of keeping up with it.  But I do think he learned some valuable info about what thinks are high points and what things are low. So hopefully he can carry that knowledge over to the low carb approach.

[Guinevere]

Did he say why he didn't want to continue it? His reasons might be a clue as to what he will find helpful and what he will not find helpful. Was there any part of WW that he found helpful that could be continued in a different way?

He wants to do what his doctor said.

[Scarlett]

He wants to do what his doctor said.

 

 

Yes that is true too.

[Hilltopmom]

nm. Carry on

Edited September 5, 2017 by Hilltopmom

[Bootsie]

Yes.  I agree.  Which is why I addressed it with dss.  I was dishing out the meal that night.  My plan was 4 each so that there could be leftovers for lunch the next day.  So I gave dss his remaining 2.  

If he is interested in cooking and being a chef, and he is the one cooking a meal, would it help to have him also being the one to plan serving sizes and dish up the ingredients?  That would encourage him to think about portion sizes and would also give some control back to him.  

 

Personally, I would feel very controlled if I were cooking meatballs, I was asked what I had eaten (which if you had planned 4 each should have been obvious by how many were left), and then had those deducted from my quota on my plate when I sat down at the table.  

[Scarlett]

If he is interested in cooking and being a chef, and he is the one cooking a meal, would it help to have him also being the one to plan serving sizes and dish up the ingredients?  That would encourage him to think about portion sizes and would also give some control back to him.  

 

Personally, I would feel very controlled if I were cooking meatballs, I was asked what I had eaten (which if you had planned 4 each should have been obvious by how many were left), and then had those deducted from my quota on my plate when I sat down at the table.  

 

 

Well, it was a practical issue as much as anything.  I told him, 'part of this meal is for tomorrow here is your portion.'  

[Pen]

Since I am the one who equated food to alcohol first, I think I need to address it.  I said it "could be a trigger" and I said it was for me.

 

If I am given a choice between an apple and a slice of cake......well, I will pick the 400 calorie small slice of cake over the 80 calorie apple.....EVERY time.  

 

Yup, I will.  It isn't that I can never have it or never have it in the house, but it can trigger sugar cravings for me.

I thought perhaps it might for him as well.

 

 

For me, I might choose the apple. And certainly would be likely to choose a fruit I like more and get less often like a nectarine.  

 

But, if I were to try a small bit of the cake, then it might start up cravings.  

 

Or similarly, Sunday I was driving home and others in car were eating  (organic, but nonetheless high calorie, low nutrient) nacho tortilla chips.  I felt sort of left out and had one, which led to a whole handful.   I think the start of the craving may have been the scent, not the first bite.

 

I was slim most of my life, even too slim at one point when sick. But recently have had too much weight issues, possibly thyroid related. I can understand both the side of it having been relatively easy at one point, and now very hard to deal with.

[Catwoman]

3.2 g of fat and 21 g of protein in 100g of squirrel. And lots of minerals and vitamins.

Very nutritious.

 

https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Game_meat%2C_raw%2C_squirrel_nutritional_value.html

But the Squirrel Cordon Bleu is probably not as good for you, right? ;)

[Scarlett]

If he is interested in cooking and being a chef, and he is the one cooking a meal, would it help to have him also being the one to plan serving sizes and dish up the ingredients?  That would encourage him to think about portion sizes and would also give some control back to him.  

 

Personally, I would feel very controlled if I were cooking meatballs, I was asked what I had eaten (which if you had planned 4 each should have been obvious by how many were left), and then had those deducted from my quota on my plate when I sat down at the table.  

 

 

Well, it wasn't super obvious and I hated to assume. I know how many I make when I make them but meatball size is not an exact science.

[Scarlett]

For me, I might choose the apple. And certainly would be likely to choose a fruit I like more and get less often like a nectarine.  

 

But, if I were to try a small bit of the cake, then it might start up cravings.  

 

Or similarly, Sunday I was driving home and others in car were eating  (organic, but nonetheless high calorie, low nutrient) nacho tortilla chips.  I felt sort of left out and had one, which led to a whole handful.   I think the start of the craving may have been the scent, not the first bite.

 

I was slim most of my life, even too slim at one point when sick. But recently have had too much weight issues, possibly thyroid related. I can understand both the side of it having been relatively easy at one point, and now very hard to deal with.

 

 

Tortilla chips is my weakness.  I love them.  When I need to cut back I have to not even have one at a mexican restaurant or I just eat the whole basket.  

[ktgrok]

There's an assumption here that Scarlett's dss can't resist ice cream.

 

Not all obese people are tempted by ice cream.

 

That's a treat I can have in the house and not be tempted by. And yes, as mentioned I've been obese and lost the weight. And I've done it with ice cream in the house and resisting it wasn't hard.

 

Cookies, cake, brownies--those tempt me. Ice cream doesn't. It might be the same for Scarlett's dss.

 

Except she has mutiple times commented about how he needs to stop eating ice cream late at night. 

[Catwoman]

Tortilla chips is my weakness. I love them. When I need to cut back I have to not even have one at a mexican restaurant or I just eat the whole basket.

I love them, too!

[ktgrok]

I appreciate the attempt to help me.  Some of you are pretty snarky but whatever, I can deal with that.

 

You are correct I have never been morbidly obese.  I have never even been overweight by any chart or scale.  And I am 52 years old. Is there any room for thinking maybe *I* know a thing or two about weight management since I have never been overweight?  

 

Honestly? No. Not anymore than you know about alcoholism because you don't drink. Or about drug addiction because you don't do drugs. 

[DawnM]

3.2 g of fat and 21 g of protein in 100g of squirrel. And lots of minerals and vitamins.

Very nutritious.

 

https://www.nutritionvalue.org/Game_meat%2C_raw%2C_squirrel_nutritional_value.html

 

Awesome!  

 

I did watch a Youtube once on a man who hunts them and cooks them......he was making squirrel dumpling soup or something like that.

 

We really could go cheap with meat, our backyard is covered in these things.

[Catwoman]

Except she has mutiple times commented about how he needs to stop eating ice cream late at night.

I could be mistaken, but I got the impression that he no longer has that problem.

[ktgrok]

No it isn't what I am saying.  What I am saying is your experience is no more relevant than mine in how to control weight.  You assume because I am not overweight that it is EASY for me to stay that way.  Maybe listen to the judgment of me in your tone.

 

It has been medically proven that those who have never been morbidly obese have less hunger, less food drive, and a better metabolism and burn more calories than those that have been morbidly obese and lose weight. 

 

So yeah, it's easier for you. 

[Scarlett]

Except she has mutiple times commented about how he needs to stop eating ice cream late at night. 

 

 

Which is true.  And when he was on WW he didn't eat ice cream.  And now that he is back working at watching his diet he is not eating ice cream.  

 

But I dont' know how hard it is for him to resist.  I see him go cut up fruit for a snack when ds is eating ice cream.  Maybe it is torture for him.  I don't know.  I will ask him.

[Catwoman]

Awesome!

 

I did watch a Youtube once on a man who hunts them and cooks them......he was making squirrel dumpling soup or something like that.

 

We really could go cheap with meat, our backyard is covered in these things.

:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:

[Scarlett]

Honestly? No. Not anymore than you know about alcoholism because you don't drink. Or about drug addiction because you don't do drugs. 

 

 

Do we know we are talking about food addiction?  I don't think we are to that point with a 16 year old kid.

[Scarlett]

:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:

 

 

I know.  I have yet to be that hungry.  

[Catwoman]

Which is true. And when he was on WW he didn't eat ice cream. And now that he is back working at watching his diet he is not eating ice cream.

 

But I dont' know how hard it is for him to resist. I see him go cut up fruit for a snack when ds is eating ice cream. Maybe it is torture for him. I don't know. I will ask him.

I think it's a good idea to ask him. If it bothers him, I'm sure your ds can solve the problem by not eating ice cream in front of him. It's easier to resist food when it's in the freezer than when someone is eating it right next to you.

[Catwoman]

Honestly? No. Not anymore than you know about alcoholism because you don't drink. Or about drug addiction because you don't do drugs.

Why are you assuming he has an addiction issue?

[catz]

If it makes you feel any better, my 16 year old is a whoozy, fainter type.  He has fainted a couple times and gets whoozy with shots, etc.  I think that is super common in teenagers.  He had to lay down and drink juice after a vax last week.

 

I think the thing with having a trigger food in the house is you can get up the morning and be having a good day and think I'm going to eat healthy all day.  And then you get tired or bored or sad or lonely and that temptation is right there and you eat it.  You might eat 3 clean meals or chose the apple over the cake in front of others but maybe be eating it quietly later.  I don't think alcohol is quite the right comparison because that has a more visible outcome.  But the longing is similar.  And if you've never been an emotional or addicted eater, it's hard to understand.  Empty carbs and sugar can be addictive and it can help to do a complete reset.  And being addicted to food this way can be very subtle.  

 

http://dailyburn.com/life/health/sugar-addiction-detox/

 

 

[Scarlett]

If it makes you feel any better, my 16 year old is a whoozy, fainter type.  He has fainted a couple times and gets whoozy with shots, etc.  I think that is super common in teenagers.  He had to lay down and drink juice after a vax last week.

 

I think the thing with having a trigger food in the house is you can get up the morning and be having a good day and think I'm going to eat healthy all day.  And then you get tired or bored or sad or lonely and that temptation is right there and you eat it.  You might eat 3 clean meals or chose the apple over the cake in front of others but maybe be eating it quietly later.  I don't think alcohol is quite the right comparison because that has a more visible outcome.  But the longing is similar.  And if you've never been an emotional or addicted eater, it's hard to understand.  Empty carbs and sugar can be addictive and it can help to do a complete reset.  And being addicted to food this way can be very subtle.  

 

http://dailyburn.com/life/health/sugar-addiction-detox/

 

 

I can relate because I feel this way about carbs.  Every once in a while I have to detox myself off carbs by going cold turkey.  

[Kassia]

.  But the longing is similar.  And if you've never been an emotional or addicted eater, it's hard to understand.  Empty carbs and sugar can be addictive and it can help to do a complete reset.  And being addicted to food this way can be very subtle.  

 

http://dailyburn.com/life/health/sugar-addiction-detox/

 

 

The book, "The Hungry Brain" is really good for addressing the difference between people who struggle with food issues and people who don't.  It's very eye-opening and shows that weight and eating are not about willpower.  

[katilac]

I had to comment on this again. A teen who is 100 pounds overweight CAN be told he needs to eat less and move more without telling him to cut calories and nutrition.  

 

And I don't quite get why you would not tell him to cut calories in order to lose weight - I get that it's not the only part of the equation, but if a person is overeating by quite a bit, then yes, they need to cut calories. 

 

 

 

You may want to consider starting these threads with JAWM in the future.    

 

I don't think this was a JAWM post. I actually think she's been pretty gracious toward the responses overall, some of which were pretty snarky or basically said she didn't care about dss. 

 

 

If he chooses to not take his medicine, do you go "Welp, that's fine, I don't want to micromanage his health choices"?

 

It's tough, though. I do think she would be getting just as much flak here is she posted that she was micromanaging his food choices. 

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

It scares me to think that someone probably knows the answer to that. :ack2:

 

I live in south Louisiana. Squirrel isn't even a blip on the "weird food" radar. It's pretty good with gravy but not something I would go out of my way to eat. And I'm definitely not cooking it. 

[ktgrok]

I agree not enough info to know if it would work long term.  He likes the idea of the low carb plan....but again it only works if he follows it.  

And it is easier to follow without having to walk by treats all the time. 

[Scarlett]

And it is easier to follow without having to walk by treats all the time. 

 

 

Fortunately he lives in a home where he walks  by a big bowl of fruit all the time.  And tomatoes from our friends garden.  A huge bowl of grape tomatoes we have been snacking on like candy all week end.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Scarlett

[Catwoman]

And it is easier to follow without having to walk by treats all the time.

I think we're picturing Scarlett's home in two different ways. I'm picturing a carton of ice cream in the freezer and it seems like you're imagining a houseful of junk food all over the place.

[ktgrok]

Do we know we are talking about food addiction?  I don't think we are to that point with a 16 year old kid.

 

 

Call it whatever you want, but once you are that overweight your fat is metabolically active, doing things to make you want to eat more, and to make you hold onto the fat even when you don't. His metabolism and food cravings and hunger are now NOT what yours would be. Period. Because fat at that level is metabolically active and sending signals to his brain to eat. If you haven't been mobidly obese then no, you don't know what that is like. You haven't dealt with it. You not eating is NOT the same as his not eating. Just like me not drinking is not the same as an alcoholic not drinking. 

[Scarlett]

I think we're picturing Scarlett's home in two different ways. I'm picturing a carton of ice cream in the freezer and it seems like you're imagining a houseful of junk food all over the place.

 

 

I know right.  It is cracking me up..

[Scarlett]

Call it whatever you want, but once you are that overweight your fat is metabolically active, doing things to make you want to eat more, and to make you hold onto the fat even when you don't. His metabolism and food cravings and hunger are now NOT what yours would be. Period. Because fat at that level is metabolically active and sending signals to his brain to eat. If you haven't been mobidly obese then no, you don't know what that is like. You haven't dealt with it. You not eating is NOT the same as his not eating. Just like me not drinking is not the same as an alcoholic not drinking. 

 

 

Fair enough.  

[Catwoman]

Call it whatever you want, but once you are that overweight your fat is metabolically active, doing things to make you want to eat more, and to make you hold onto the fat even when you don't. His metabolism and food cravings and hunger are now NOT what yours would be. Period. Because fat at that level is metabolically active and sending signals to his brain to eat. If you haven't been mobidly obese then no, you don't know what that is like. You haven't dealt with it. You not eating is NOT the same as his not eating. Just like me not drinking is not the same as an alcoholic not drinking.

In fairness to Scarlett, though, it sounds like she's trying to understand. She is going to the doctor's appointments with her dss. She's spending a lot of time talking with her dss to try to figure out the best ways to help and support him. She is taking him on special shopping trips so he can choose healthy foods. She's encouraging him to cook healthy meals for the family because he loves to cook.

 

I feel like she is doing the best she can and is listening to both her dss and his doctor to make the weight loss as easy as possible for him, so I think she deserves credit for that.

[unsinkable]

I have perhaps missed the advice among Squirrel Talk ("Hey, I know a joke! A squirrel walks up to a tree and says, "I forgot to store acorns for the winter and now I am dead." Ha! It is funny because the squirrel gets dead. "/Dug)

 

But something important for DSS to learn in when he starts sliding into making not so good choices is how to start over.

 

I know for myself, a middle aged woman, having a script to tell myself. "OK, I ate way too much at the party. I'm still a healthy eater. I'm still on track." Etc. I

 

Teen boys might not be comfortable with that but I think he needs a plan for when bad choices happen, so he doesn't fall into the all-or-nothing trap.

[Catwoman]

I have perhaps missed the advice among Squirrel Talk ("Hey, I know a joke! A squirrel walks up to a tree and says, "I forgot to store acorns for the winter and now I am dead." Ha! It is funny because the squirrel gets dead. "/Dug)

 

But something important for DSS to learn in when he starts sliding into making not so good choices is how to start over.

 

I know for myself, a middle aged woman, having a script to tell myself. "OK, I ate way too much at the party. I'm still a healthy eater. I'm still on track." Etc. I

 

Teen boys might not be comfortable with that but I think he needs a plan for when bad choices happen, so he doesn't fall into the all-or-nothing trap.

:iagree:

 

That's a good point. He is going to mess up. But that doesn't make him a failure or a weak person. It makes him a normal human being. The hardest part will be picking himself up and getting back on track, and that's such an important thing for him to learn to do without beating himself up when he makes some poor choices every now and then.