Ugh, ds again.

[Night Elf]

Ds works the 3rd shift at a grocery store. His hours have been 12:00am to 7:00am for at least 6 weeks. We got used to that. Now his supervisor has decided he and his coworkers need to go in at 10:00pm, but he didn't tell ds what time he'd get off and ds didn't think to ask! So if he works a normal 7 hour shift, he should get off at 5:00am so I woke up at 4:30am. However, he hasn't yet texted so I guess he's not going to get off until 6:00am which is an 8 hour shift. Ds does not want to work 8 hour shifts. He has spoken to them a few times about wanting four 7-hour shifts and he got that scheduled for two weeks and now they've increased his hours again. This week, if they really do have him working 8 hour shifts, he will have worked 40 hours when all he wants to work is 28 hours. I don't know what to tell him. Their excuse for giving him 5 days is someone is off and they need someone else to cover for him. Ds doesn't feel like he can tell them no when they just say 'you need to work 5 days this week'. So he's stuck. 

 

Should he just keep reminding them he only wants to work 4 nights a week? He was originally hired as a part-time employee getting about 20 hours a week but over time they're pushing him more towards 40. This new supervisor he has doesn't seem respectful of ds. I feel bad for ds but there really isn't another job that he is qualified to do. He doesn't want to work with the public and he has no skills for any other types of jobs anyway. I'm trying to talk him into retail but it's customer related and he doesn't want to do that.

 

BTW, he has Aspergers.

[Rosie_0801]

Under the circumstances, I'm not sure why full time work isn't something to be grateful for.

[Jenny in Florida]

Unfortunately, I think your son may be learning that employees, especially those in relatively low-level jobs,usually don't have the luxury of dictating terms. Most large employers expect to be able to treat employees like cogs in a machine, plugging them in wherever and whenever they are needed.

 

Also, at least in my experience, seven-hour shifts would be pretty unusual. Most of the part-time jobs I have worked in recent years are based on either more frequent six-hour shifts or fewer eight-hour shifts.

 

I know your son has some special circumstances, and I totally get that this impacts you because you do the driving. However, unless your son wants to/can qualify for special treatment based on a disability, he may need to either adapt to the employer's expectations or find another job that is better structured for him.

[bettyandbob]

For some people this is the lesson they learn that sends to school for skills that can put them in a position for a better job. 

 

It stinks the employer won't stick with your ds's request. Do you know what exactly the manager said in response to requests? Did they say they could try, but it might not be possible to stick to a shortened schedule. 

[MedicMom]

He probably can't tell them no. The company dictates the schedule, and it's really common to have "part time" employees working close to but not quite 40 hours a week. It doesn't sound like he's being singled out, but that this is what they're expecting of everyone.

 

I think this is very common in this type of job(and would be the same in a retail job too). He may just need to deal with it.

[Guest]

This is becoming more common.  My son mentioned his employer wanted everyone full time...something about cost of running a business with benefits...even though there wasn't enough work for full time.  He ended up with about 15 hours a week of keeping busy.  

 

I would not use language like "their excuse is...".  Their business need is to have an employee fill those hours, and your son was the choice.  Perhaps everyone else has as many hours as they can be given.  At that point, he can choose to work the hours, or resign and they will get someone else who can work those hours.

 

 What is your plan to transition him to full time employment?  Is he receiving benefits to the point that he won't ever have to work full time and will not need health insurance after he ages off your dh's?

[Rachel]

Unfortunately I think this is common in retail settings. He will have to set firm boundaries with his boss and probably keep reminding them of his limitations.

 

I know he only wants to work 28 hours, you don't have to answer, but is there a specific reason? Does it affect certain benefits,make him too tired, etc?

 

If he's working 37+ hours a week regularly he needs to start asking for benefits like retirement and paid vacation. If they are working him like a full time employee he should receive the benefits of a full time employee.

[TechWife]

Something else that might help him change his mindset is that the additional hours are evidence he is doing a good job. If he were doing a poor job, they would be cutting his hours.

[QueenCat]

Unfortunately, I think your son may be learning that employees, especially those in relatively low-level jobs,usually don't have the luxury of dictating terms. Most large employers expect to be able to treat employees like cogs in a machine, plugging them in wherever and whenever they are needed.

 

Also, at least in my experience, seven-hour shifts would be pretty unusual. Most of the part-time jobs I have worked in recent years are based on either more frequent six-hour shifts or fewer eight-hour shifts.

 

I know your son has some special circumstances, and I totally get that this impacts you because you do the driving. However, unless your son wants to/can qualify for special treatment based on a disability, he may need to either adapt to the employer's expectations or find another job that is better structured for him.

 

Yes, this... Employees don't get to dictate to the boss the exact hours they will work or how many they will work in this type of setting. If I were the boss and an employee kept telling me that's all they wanted to work but I needed the employee for full shifts, that employee might find themselves with zero hours. This is not comparable to someone truly hired for a small number of part-time hours (15-20/week) or a  guarantee of "no more than x hours" (which one wouldn't expect it that setting).

[Beth S]

Another option is that your ds could suggest they hire a friend of his, which would relieve the employer's staff shortage. 

[Annie G]

If the extra day is just this week because someone is off, I wouldn't balk at that. When he needs time off someone will get extra hours to cover for him. 

Assuming he will normally work four days, the difference between 7 and 8 hours isn't that big a deal.  I would probably try to help him learn to adapt to changes in scheduling. I understand his Aspergers is challenging but in the long run at least trying to help him adapt to changes is worthwhile. 

 

In the land of retail and part time employment, your ds having set hours is pretty awesome. Our kids always had ever changing hours/days and one week might have 30 hours and the next 12.  

[gardenmom5]

 

Also, at least in my experience, seven-hour shifts would be pretty unusual. Most of the part-time jobs I have worked in recent years are based on either more frequent six-hour shifts or fewer eight-hour shifts.

 

I know your son has some special circumstances, and I totally get that this impacts you because you do the driving. However, unless your son wants to/can qualify for special treatment based on a disability, he may need to either adapt to the employer's expectations or find another job that is better structured for him.

  

this.   my kids have all worked part-time at one time or another.  one is currently, and one did in college - work retail.  they were eight hour shifts.   even for part-time.  1dd's employer held her job while she was on the east coast for college (she worked one day a week in an office at college) - it was worth it to them as when she was in town -they didn't have to train someone.

1dds is currently working retail - and has done everything from one-shift to five shifts (full-time) a week depending upon if he's in school or between quarters.   2ds was a UPS driver helper over the holidays one year - they're delivering as the driver had always done his pick-ups first. but the closer to christmas - the longer the days.  (but he liked it. people are generally happy to see UPS at christmas).  he currently works 4/4s and 1/8 (it's flexible with his school schedule) - but he's in an office.  that could also be something that might work better for your son depending upon his skills. a lot of offices need help with support type stuff,  and can more easily fit an odd schedule in to their master schedule.

 

I've also had kids work a four-hour shift.  it fits into the master schedule for all employees - and that's what you need to consider when you are figuring out what hours he's able to work. business owners/managers are looking to fill their schedule so they have which positions are needed across the hours they are doing business (including the one's they are closed, as they have stocking/etc. still happening).  a seven-hr shift leaves an hour with no one covering.  an even number is more readily adapted - but it can still be a problem to fit it into that master schedule.

 

unless he is working for a large retail - with lots of employees per shift; or a make-work job that no one else fills when he isn't there; and he has something filled with legalese on why he can't work an eight hour shift, you're going to need to work with them.  very large retailers - have more employees to be able to cover gaps - depending upon hours and season (as retail is seasonal too).

[gardenmom5]

 

 

In the land of retail and part time employment, your ds having set hours is pretty awesome. Our kids always had ever changing hours/days and one week might have 30 hours and the next 12.  

 

even in the land of full-time very skilled employment (and well compensated) - you can easily have changing hours and shifts . . . 2dd has a pharmd.   her hours change week to week.

it's common for hospital medical personnel - because those jobs require 24/7/365 coverage.

[teachermom2834]

I don't think your ds can demand 7 hour shifts unless you are in an area with very low unemployment and businesses are absolutely desperate for workers.

 

I don't have Asperger's in my family so I don't know how that impacts the issue but I think an employee continually requesting seven hour shifts is pretty unusual and not something likely to be honored.

 

If the job is working for him in other ways, I would say he needs to find a way to adjust to this. My kids have found employers to be understanding of school schedules but not much else. A worker who didn't have a school obligation is unlikely to be able to have that much control over his hours.

[JudoMom]

Yeah, when you work in retail/restaurant, it's a situation where "you get what you get and you don't pitch a fit". They need to staff the hours they need to staff. It's nice when they're able to fulfill the employee's preferences, but they're also running a business.

Edited August 28, 2017 by JudoMom

[DeainUSA]

I think you and your DS need to decide if this is his line.  If so, I think your DS should explain he took this position based on the hours and what he could do transportation wise.  I think he should state he can not arrange transportation for the bump in hours.  A firm reason that is non negotiable.  See what happens.  It's hard to hang on to good employees in retail, they might just give. While I'm not sure he can shorten his shift from 8 to 7, I do think sticking to the 4 days is possible. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by DeainUSA

[catz]

If this is a one week thing and there are not a bunch of employees, I'd tell him to buck up and someone else will need to step up if he goes on vacation.

 

If this is a trend and he's not happy, decide if it's worth quitting over before you say something.  I do think saying 4 days a week seems reasonable.  Although, if there shifts are typically 8 hours or whatever, I wouldn't expect them to divide up shifts differently for one employee.

 

Whatever he does, he should advocate for himself if at all possible. 

 

Why is he part time?  If he's a student part time, that would be a good reason, but I thought he was not?  Moving toward full time for someone who is not pursuing higher education would seem like the right thing to do.  The adjustment may be difficult but maybe that would be the breaking point to do something else.  Or he would adjust and it would be fine.

[QueenCat]

I think you and your DS need to decide if this is his line.  If so, I think your DS should explain he took this position based on the hours and what he could do transportation wise.  I think he should state he can not arrange transportation for the bump in hours.  A firm reason that is non negotiable.  See what happens.  It's hard to hang on to good employees in retail, they might just give. While I'm not sure he can shorten his shift from 8 to 7, I do think sticking to the 4 days is possible. 

 

If he does that, and they don't agree, he has to quit or be viewed as untrustworthy.

[Tap]

In my experience, I think it is more realistic for him to request 4 days a week, than to request 7 hour shifts.  Unless, 7 hours is a common shift at this employer,  it seems a bit awkward.

 

I understand needing someone to cover an occasional extra shift, but if it is more than once a month then he may need to get a little firmer with his request.  

 

I suggest he put his prefered schedule in writing and give it to the scheduler.  Even if he has done it before, do it again.  Stores are used to working around students, so this shouldn't be a big deal. If it is something that they can not accomodate, then he should look elsewhere. 

 

Something like 

 

Hi Mary, 

I would like to update you on my availability for fall

 

I was hired as a part time employee and would like to remain part time. 

 

My prefered schedule is:  

Night shift (stocking crew or whatever his company calls it)

7 hour shift, working a maximum of  4 days per week.

If a 7 hour shift is not  available, I am open to 8 hour shifts for 4 days or 5/6 hour shifts for 5 days.

What is important to me is that I do not want to work more than 28 hours a week due to other commitments. I am willing to go up to 32 hours to accommodate scheduling, but please limit my schedule to that. 

 

Thank you for your help,

Johnny Last Name

phone number

[Aura]

If he made his needs known at the time of his hiring, then I think he is well within reason to push to keep that. But if he has changed it since then, they might not be willing to make that change. It wasn't what he was hired to do, and it may not be what they need.

 

Either way, though, it really depends on management. How much are they willing to work with their employees? How much do they like him and want to keep him? Those that they want to keep, they are generally willing to do more for. Sometimes, though, this is as much a popularity contest as it is based on the employee's work ethic.

[Night Elf]

When he talked to his previous supervisor about how many hours he wanted to work, that supervisor had no problem with it. He rarely got 8 hour shifts and another employee told ds that was because with 8 hours, the employee gets two breaks. With only 7 hours they only get one break. I don't know if there's any truth behind that though. He's rarely had 8 hour shifts anyway. Since he started last October, his normal nightly shift is 7 hours. They just vary how many days they give to him. For a while, they were giving him 5 nights a week. He got tired of working that much and that's when he asked for fewer nights. He wouldn't mind the 8 hour shift if it's only 4 nights a week.

 

Then a new supervisor came in. He's running a tighter ship and ds is learning to deal with the situation although he isn't happy about it. There are other employees that get less hours than he does and I truly believe it's because they stand up for themselves and say what they can work and that's the end of it. Ds just accepts any schedule they give to him. He's done really well in speaking up for himself in asking for fewer shifts. It's like they listen and give him his ideal schedule a couple of weeks and then they have him working more again. This Kroger has been advertising jobs available since dd worked there in 2015. There are always positions open. Ds's night crew needs more employees but I imagine it's hard to find people who want to work the 3rd shift. He's the youngest there.

 

Why does he want fewer hours? It's his perception of life at this time. The more he works, the less leisure time he gets and he gets irritable and out of sorts when he doesn't get his leisure time. DH and I have both been talking to him about that. We are certainly encouraging him to work nearly full-time because he has no other obligations like school. He's an adult. He must support himself. He is in a Union and when he joined they told him they were working on getting a raise for their employees and it must have worked because he's now getting more money. It's definitely not a bad paying part-time job but it's no where near where he needs to be if he wants to move out. He is looking for a career, one that needs to meet requirements he's set in his mind. I've told him he must have a higher education to find such a job but he's certain he can do it without going back to school. There is no rush for him to support himself so we're letting him research these possibilities. I don't know what it is though. The last thing he mentioned to me was becoming a writer. He wanted to quit his job so he could write. I wouldn't let him though. That's obviously not a smart move. So he gave that idea up. I think he's still living in a teenager world where the responsibilities of being adult seem so far away.

 

Whew! This got long and I haven't even finished reading the whole thread yet. :)

 

 

[Night Elf]

I should mention that it is typical for someone with Aspergers to be behind his peers. My son is super smart but I think he thinks more along the lines of a 15/16 year old. He may be 21 but he's certainly not like other 21 year olds who want to be independent. We're taking small steps with ds. He's come a long way since he started work last October. We're very proud of him and tell him that. It just takes a lot of talking on our part to get him to understand there are multiple ways of looking at something. He thinks one thing and nothing else is a possibility in his mind. I think that's typical of Aspies.

 

I watched a documentary about a young adult Aspie. He couldn't hold down a job because his perceptions were so off. I think he finally went on disability. I don't know what the future holds for ds. He's holding on to this job so I don't think he'd qualify for disability. He's proven he can hang onto a job.

 

I do want a better job for him. This is grunt work really. Although if he sticks with it, there's a possibility he can move up in positions. When he went to orientation, they talked about how some of the upper executives started out as hourly employees. That impressed him at the time. I don't think he's impressed anymore because he doesn't like his job.

[Guest]

His perception of his leisure time? I'm asking this seriously - is he cognitively able to understand that adults don't get to prioritize leisure time in almost any career, no matter how high paying, until they're able to partially or fully retire? More than one young adult has been confused on that point but the sooner they figure it out the happier they are.

 

Seems like his expectations don't match reality - is he mentally flexible enough to get there if you frame the argument for him?

 

I'd definitely push for fewer days and longer shifts if he can - frame it as a long weekend or more time off overall.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Arctic Mama

[Night Elf]

His perception of his leisure time? I'm asking this seriously - is he cognitively able to understand that adults don't get to prioritize leisure time in almost any career, no matter how high paying, until they're able to partially or fully retire? More than one young adult has been confused on that point but the sooner they figure it out the happier they are.

 

Seems like his expectations don't match reality - is he mentally flexible enough to get there is you frame the argument for him?

 

I'd definitely push for fewer days and longer shifts if he can - frame it as a long weekend or more time off overall.

 

From what I can tell, he honestly doesn't understand that leisure is what comes after work. He still sees leisure time as most important. Yes, DH and I are working on that with him. The problem is he gets his mind settled on one thing and he has a very difficult time seeing any other point of view. I absolutely agree his expectations don't match reality. The example is when he wanted to quit his Kroger job and become a writer. He truly believed writing a book was easy as long as he had a setting for it. I had to explain that even writers have paying jobs to make ends meet while they are writing. When that sunk in, he gave up the idea.

 

I figure if he works four 8-hour shifts, that's 32 hours. That's not that far off from the five 7-hour shifts they had him working. It's been a couple of weeks since he worked five instead of four days in the week and they told him the same thing they did about this week, that with an employee out, they need other employees to cover it. DH and I reminded him he just took off 7 days in July for a family vacation and chances are other employees had to cover for him. He did have some paid time in there though. I think that's another benefit of being in his Union.

 

I think he's stuck on the 7-hour shift idea because that has been his normal shift since he started work last October. I'm wondering if this new supervisor is changing that.

[gardenmom5]

In my experience, I think it is more realistic for him to request 4 days a week, than to request 7 hour shifts.  Unless, 7 hours is a common shift at this employer,  it seems a bit awkward.

 

I understand needing someone to cover an occasional extra shift, but if it is more than once a month then he may need to get a little firmer with his request.  

 

this.  2dd has shift work (even at her level).  she has to deal with the person setting the schedule  (she didn't get this weeks until yesterday) - and everyone who does that is different.  some are fine with it - other's hate it and will do whatever they can to make it easier on themselves.   she was able to take over setting up the schedule at her previous employer - everyone was happier.

he may have someone now who doesn't like it - and is making it easier on themselves.  that's life, and that's business.

 

 

 

I do want a better job for him. This is grunt work really. Although if he sticks with it, there's a possibility he can move up in positions. When he went to orientation, they talked about how some of the upper executives started out as hourly employees. That impressed him at the time. I don't think he's impressed anymore because he doesn't like his job.

 

does he understand what they would have had to do to move up the ladder from shift work, to management, to executive?   they didn't "just move up".  they showed up for their shifts. they worked hard, they went the extra mile in supporting their employer (which their employer repaid by giving them more opportunities),  they didn't hold leisure as more important than a job/education.  they got formal college education pertinent to retail.  they got formal college education pertinent to business.  be that marketing, accounting, business, etc.  the point is: they got a formal education so they could move up.

 

1ds is currently working for target.  they will help pay for school - provided it is something to do with retail that will benefit them in a better educated employee who will have the opportunity to move up the ladder within their company.  

 

I get that he has aspergers - I have an aspie, and have been around a lot more.  every day I try to drill into his head the importance of education because it opens opportunities.  I'm trying to help him understand that there's a lot of "boring" stuff before he gets to the interesting stuff.  same as building a house.  the foundation - and everything that goes into the walls is long and slow and boring and you don't see much during those stages.  but they have to be there for things to have structure and function.  or before you get to "the fun stuff".

[Bootsie]

Ds works the 3rd shift at a grocery store. His hours have been 12:00am to 7:00am for at least 6 weeks. We got used to that. Now his supervisor has decided he and his coworkers need to go in at 10:00pm, but he didn't tell ds what time he'd get off and ds didn't think to ask! So if he works a normal 7 hour shift, he should get off at 5:00am so I woke up at 4:30am. However, he hasn't yet texted so I guess he's not going to get off until 6:00am which is an 8 hour shift. Ds does not want to work 8 hour shifts. He has spoken to them a few times about wanting four 7-hour shifts and he got that scheduled for two weeks and now they've increased his hours again. This week, if they really do have him working 8 hour shifts, he will have worked 40 hours when all he wants to work is 28 hours. I don't know what to tell him. Their excuse for giving him 5 days is someone is off and they need someone else to cover for him. Ds doesn't feel like he can tell them no when they just say 'you need to work 5 days this week'. So he's stuck. 

 

Should he just keep reminding them he only wants to work 4 nights a week? He was originally hired as a part-time employee getting about 20 hours a week but over time they're pushing him more towards 40. This new supervisor he has doesn't seem respectful of ds. I feel bad for ds but there really isn't another job that he is qualified to do. He doesn't want to work with the public and he has no skills for any other types of jobs anyway. I'm trying to talk him into retail but it's customer related and he doesn't want to do that.

 

BTW, he has Aspergers.

 

Why are you feeling bad for him?  It is obvious that it is not his preference to work more than 28 hours.  But, it doesn't sounds as if there is a real problem for him to work close to 40 hours since there is no interference with school and no health reasons for not working. 

 

I would be encouraging him regarding the skills and experience he is gaining.