Kids 8+ sitting in on adult conversations....

[TechWife]

 Well, lots to address here. I'll be as succinct as possible.

 

I'm not talking about respectfully listening to their children-of course it is ideal for parents to be respectful towards their children. I'm talking about the younger children (8-10, not teens) who lurk around purposely wanting to overhear the conversation. OR the children that interrupt..."Mom, remember that crawdad I caught at the creek yesterday? Wasn't it awesome?" while the adults are in the midst of a different conversation. At  the very least the parent could say "yes, honey, I do,  but mom is talking right now so maybe we can talk about the crawdad later". Or, if the conversation turned a bit personal and I thought the OTHER PERSON would be uncomfortable, I would send my kids off to play.  If that's "dissing" the other moms, than so be it. It seems incredibly child-centered to me.

 

Your children don't play over the age of 11 unless it's video games? How sad. Your last sentence also suggests that you are very child-centered. Taking the adults opinions and feelings into account is every bit important as your child's. 

 

It isn't just "ideal" for parents to be respectful to towards their children. Children are the image bearers' of God and as such should be respected at all times and under all circumstances. Parents who do not respect their children as people do great harm to them. To say that it is an "ideal" is to minimize the very nature of God. Yes, I realize that not everyone shares these beliefs, but that does not change the truth of them, quite frankly. 

 

Being "child-centered" is not something that is negative. I would really like to know what the life of a parent who is not "child-centered" is like, because I cannot conceive of it. I have never known a mature parent who considered their own desires, actions, health, employment, friendships, extended family, finances, etc. without considering how their decisions and/or personal preferences would impact their children. Once you are a parent, every decision and action you take does impact your children, either directly or indirectly. 

 

Taking the opinions and feelings of my adult friend's into account is not every bit as important as my child's opinions and feelings. It's just not.  

[ktgrok]

Yeah, I'll tell my kids lovingly to vamoose when we are having a private conversation, on things like marriage difficulties, job loss, or content sensitive topics. Other than that we don't mind the kids being around if they aren't interrupting.

 

We do have a little eavesdropper who will chip in and correct adults when she thinks they aren't being precise. That we squelch because it's rude. But if she had something to contribute other than critiquing others we try not to shut it down.

 

Sometimes I do just want the kids to scram and play so I can get a break with an adult, but if they're sitting quietly and not bugging anyone I wouldn't tell them to run off on principle. It really depends.

 

I'm not in the children-should-be-occasionally-seen-and-never-heard school. But I also don't welcome their present without exception. It really just depends. At group get togethers it usually means they're all over the place and no private conversations are being had, though.

 

This. Group settings, usually I don't mind at all. Certainly over dinner or whatever, conversation is open to all. I grew up hanging out with the adults. But, if it's me and another mom at a play date, I absolutely tell the kids to go play. First, that's why we drove there. Second, I may want to vent a bit about my kids, and won't do that in front of the kids! Nor will I discuss marriage issues, weight issues, etc with the kids. So go play on the swings and let us have our girl talk!

[wendyroo]

The more I read the OP, the more it kind of bothers me.  Like it's kind of dissing the other parents that they respectfully listen to their children, even if it's during the course of the adult topic, instead of dismissing what their child has to say and sending them off to play.  My children really never even played beyond the age of 11.  They hung out with their friends.  Not played unless it was video games.  I can't imagine just dismissing my child, regardless of their age, if they had something they wanted to say to me. 

 

Even when I AM in the middle of a conversation, if my child runs up needing to address me, they have been taught to stand and patiently wait until there is a natural pause in the conversation, where they can ask for my attention to address whatever they may need.  It doesn't have to be deemed important by me or the other person in the conversation because it was apparently important to my child.  My first obligation is to my children no matter where we are.

 

 

So, let me run a few scenarios by you...

 

Your DH comes home and needs to discuss some upcoming travel requirements for work.  A couple minutes into the conversation, your child comes, stands, waits, and then at the next pause launches into a discussion about something interesting in the book she is reading.  Do you let the travel conversation be derailed because your obligation is to listen to whatever your child wants to tell you at the very moment that it occurs to them?

 

A friend is visiting, and over coffee she is telling you about the emotionally difficult decision they recently made to put their dog to sleep.  Same scenario, your child comes in mid-conversation and wants to talk to you about something fairly inconsequential that could be discussed later.  Do you blow off your friend's emotional sharing, that could be helping her through her grieving process, because you don't want to "dismiss" your child even temporarily?

 

What about if the emotional conversation is with one of your children?  Maybe one of your kids is in the middle of telling you about how he caught a friend smoking a cigarette, and he doesn't know how to handle the situation.  Your other child politely interrupts mid-conversation, wanting to discuss plans for her upcoming birthday.  Now where does your obligation lie?  I know if it was me, that I would politely tell the birthday planner to skedaddle because I needed to have a conversation with her brother.

 

Wendy 

[winterbaby]

It isn't just "ideal" for parents to be respectful to towards their children. Children are the image bearers' of God and as such should be respected at all times and under all circumstances. Parents who do not respect their children as people do great harm to them. To say that it is an "ideal" is to minimize the very nature of God. Yes, I realize that not everyone shares these beliefs, but that does not change the truth of them, quite frankly. 

 

Being "child-centered" is not something that is negative. I would really like to know what the life of a parent who is not "child-centered" is like, because I cannot conceive of it. I have never known a mature parent who considered their own desires, actions, health, employment, friendships, extended family, finances, etc. without considering how their decisions and/or personal preferences would impact their children. Once you are a parent, every decision and action you take does impact your children, either directly or indirectly. 

 

Taking the opinions and feelings of my adult friend's into account is not every bit as important as my child's opinions and feelings. It's just not.  

 

Children are image-bearers of God. They are not the image-bearers of God, elevated above all others. You can respect a child without giving them absolute veto power over adult desire to keep a conversation on an adult level, or even just on topic. In fact that is not respecting their need to learn appropriate social skills for when they grow up. Normal courtesy dictates that a newcomer to a conversation wait for an appropriate opening and do their best to blend in and be a constructive conversation partner for the others, unless of course the interruption is urgent. Children need to be helped to develop this skill. Shutting everyone else down and attending to them 100% the moment they appear - again, barring urgent needs - does not teach them that. A child who's taught that their desires and feelings always trump those of every adult don't learn that children are more important than adults - they learn that "I am more important than everyone else" and you run a serious danger that as adults they will behave accordingly.

[TeenagerMom]

So, let me run a few scenarios by you...

 

Your DH comes home and needs to discuss some upcoming travel requirements for work.  A couple minutes into the conversation, your child comes, stands, waits, and then at the next pause launches into a discussion about something interesting in the book she is reading.  Do you let the travel conversation be derailed because your obligation is to listen to whatever your child wants to tell you at the very moment that it occurs to them?

 

A friend is visiting, and over coffee she is telling you about the emotionally difficult decision they recently made to put their dog to sleep.  Same scenario, your child comes in mid-conversation and wants to talk to you about something fairly inconsequential that could be discussed later.  Do you blow off your friend's emotional sharing, that could be helping her through her grieving process, because you don't want to "dismiss" your child even temporarily?

 

What about if the emotional conversation is with one of your children?  Maybe one of your kids is in the middle of telling you about how he caught a friend smoking a cigarette, and he doesn't know how to handle the situation.  Your other child politely interrupts mid-conversation, wanting to discuss plans for her upcoming birthday.  Now where does your obligation lie?  I know if it was me, that I would politely tell the birthday planner to skedaddle because I needed to have a conversation with her brother.

 

Wendy 

 

 

The scenarios presented in the OP are entirely different then the ones you are describing.  In a group setting, where the expectation is that you are going as a family to participate in a park day, pool day, etc, yes, my child takes priority over someone else's need to discuss their reproductive matters.

 

At home, yes, my teens have been asked to wait a moment while I finish a conversation. 

 

If I want adult time, I schedule adult time.  Park days for us and our group of friends, is not adult time.

[Farrar]

This whole discussion just seems to have gone off the rails. Most of the time, there's a happy medium between the extreme of always letting children participate in adult conversations and always turning them away, between refusing to discuss anything even remotely taboo with friends and being tmi about sex and body topics nonstop, between quickly stopping talking and just continuing to discuss a private matter in front of a child who wanders in...

 

I wouldn't stop talking about body or sex issues that might come up in a friends conversation altogether, but nor would we likely keep going with any depth. The issue we have to hush up about the most often is supporting each other with ideas around parenting - there's nothing like little Timmy coming by to listen to get Timmy's mom to have to stop trying to explain Timmy's math struggles in order to get ideas about what to do about it.

 

It would never in a million years occur to me that a friend saying something about her period or making a reference to sex or birth control or something would be grooming behavior. I mean, really. Does it normalize sex? Yes. Because sex is normal for adults. As long as you're not explicit around the kids, it's not a secret, at least not from my kids.

 

IME, when kids come by and want to talk, they typically have a limited set of subjects that they want to bring things back to. Not always - and I've been in many great conversations where my own kids or other kids had interesting perspectives to offer about the play they just saw or the current events we're discussing or the best hike in the area and why or whatever. But I've also been in many adult conversations that are interrupted by kids who want attention but aren't sure what to say so they change the topic to something that has been discussed ad infinitum at home already, or to Minecraft/Pokemon/Roblox/Zelda/D&D/whatever - and there's just a limit on that for me. Like, dude, you're sitting over here with six adults who don't have a deep interest in that and who would kind of like to discuss something else (anything else sometimes). Over there on the playground are a dozen people your age who WOULD like to discuss that. So I do shoo my kids away sometimes. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I find that an organic balance usually arises.

[TeenagerMom]

 Well, lots to address here. I'll be as succinct as possible.

 

I'm not talking about respectfully listening to their children-of course it is ideal for parents to be respectful towards their children. I'm talking about the younger children (8-10, not teens) who lurk around purposely wanting to overhear the conversation. OR the children that interrupt..."Mom, remember that crawdad I caught at the creek yesterday? Wasn't it awesome?" while the adults are in the midst of a different conversation. At  the very least the parent could say "yes, honey, I do,  but mom is talking right now so maybe we can talk about the crawdad later". Or, if the conversation turned a bit personal and I thought the OTHER PERSON would be uncomfortable, I would send my kids off to play.  If that's "dissing" the other moms, than so be it. It seems incredibly child-centered to me.

 

Your children don't play over the age of 11 unless it's video games? How sad. Your last sentence also suggests that you are very child-centered. Taking the adults opinions and feelings into account is every bit important as your child's. 

 

Oh , I agree interrupting, off-topic children, should be corrected to redirect the conversation back on topic, but yeah, still not sending my kids off to play so someone can discuss their reproductive statuses, etc.  I am absolutely child centered.  My kids are my highest priority. Always.  And it really isn't sad that my children didn't play beyond age 11.  It's not like they sat around doing nothing. Mine much preferred pursuits like art projects,  listening to music, reading, etc.  Both never really even had toys other than Legos beyond the age of 10.  My son liked to go outside to shoot his bb guns or ride his scooter around the block.

[TechWife]

Children are image-bearers of God. They are not the image-bearers of God, elevated above all others. You can respect a child without giving them absolute veto power over adult desire to keep a conversation on an adult level, or even just on topic. In fact that is not respecting their need to learn appropriate social skills for when they grow up. Normal courtesy dictates that a newcomer to a conversation wait for an appropriate opening and do their best to blend in and be a constructive conversation partner for the others, unless of course the interruption is urgent. Children need to be helped to develop this skill. Shutting everyone else down and attending to them 100% the moment they appear - again, barring urgent needs - does not teach them that. A child who's taught that their desires and feelings always trump those of every adult don't learn that children are more important than adults - they learn that "I am more important than everyone else" and you run a serious danger that as adults they will behave accordingly.

Giving children priority over non family members and teaching them social skills are not mutually exclusive. To set them in opposition to each other is neither necessary or appropriate. Placing priority on family relationships over friends does not teach children that they are always more important than others. It does teach them that family relationships are more important than friendships.

 

In any case, no one has proposed shutting down conversations with friends in order to cater to children. Instead, adults can set the example and provide appropriate guidance on conversational skills and empathy by including them in conversations. It isn't either talk to an adult friend or talk to the child, it's talk to both the adult and the child. We allow conversations to change to accommodate the interests of children when appropriate and include the children in more adult topics on an age appropriate level. Exposing children to the way adults think helps them develop maturity in their thought processes and in their social skills.

[Farrar]

You know, the child-centered thing is also... I have never fully understood that. In our house, we all have needs and we all get to balance them to get them fulfilled. When kids are very young, their needs are usually pretty intense and take more time. Even then, sometimes they have to wait - moms deserve showers and bathroom time and to be able to eat assuming no one is endangered, and toddlers may have to suck it up and deal with a babysitter now and then, but mostly households bend around kids' needs when they're young.

 

As my kids get older though, it really does become more of a balance. They need time with friends, so I drive them. They need to pursue their activities so we take them there (dh just sat around for four hours so ds could go to a Magic the Gathering tournament, for example). They need to get the foods they like, so I cook them. They need to talk about their interests so I listen. But also, I need to get time to myself or to go pursue my own interests, so they wait for me sometimes. I need to have time with my friends, so they have to find other things to do. I get to cook my favorite foods and if they don't like it, they can make a sandwich. Dh and I get to pick where we go for vacation sometimes or even leave them with grandparents.

 

My kids' desire to sit with me and chat with my mom friends doesn't always get to trump my desire to sit with them sans kids occasionally. It's a balance. I'm a member of this house too - and now that my kids are old enough, what I want rules sometimes and what they want rules sometimes and what dh wants rules sometimes. And we try to work it out in between. We're not all equal per se - dh and I are still the ultimate authorities because we have the adult experience - but we try to make things as equal as possible. And just like I respect if they want me to bug off from their conversations and games (which sometimes they do), I expect them to do the same - sometimes, at least, since one of the nice things about homeschooling is that my parent friends are also friends with them, just like I consider many of their friends my friends too.

[MistyMountain]

My kids are very important and to me they are the most important thing to me. At the same time I do not think it is good for them to be the center of the world all the time and have things solely focused on them all the time. Kids need to learn that other people have needs too and they are not the center of the universe. They have times where they want to be by themselves with a friend and I allow that by sending a sibling away. There are times where they need to learn they cannot always send a certain sibling away who is not bothering them and busy with something themselves. There are times you do things for them but doing things just for yourself is good too.

 

As far as the topic at hand there are times when I send my kids away and there are times where I do not. Recently I got together with a friend I barely see any more and I have been spending a lot less time around other adults and I did want some time without kids around to discuss certain things. One of my kids was bored and wanted to hang nearby the entire time. I did tell him to play sometimes but he did not want to. When I get together with close friends there are times we discuss stuff that I want to keep personal while the kids are playing and through the years that has been so restoring. If kids come in sometimes that is fine but other times we do tell them to play. I personally would not want a kid in the room if a conversation is going on about libido.

Edited July 8, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Mergath]

Yeah, the goalposts have definitely changed from Mergath originally saying the 13 yo boy sits and listens to conversations about sex and menopause and periods...and that he could leave if he didn't want to hear it...

 

I don't recall at any point saying that he was a captive audience and not free to leave. He can listen/ask questions if he wants, he can leave and go play Minecraft or whatever if he wants. Please quote the post where I said he was forced to sit and listen against his will at any point.

 

The mommy wars have really escalated over the years. We've gone from, "You parent the way you want," to "you're a crappy parent if you don't have the same standards and values as me," to "you're being psychologically abusive and/or are a sexual predator if you and your friends have different ideas about parenting than I do."

 

You seem to have some specific issues with teenagers hearing about this stuff that go way beyond merely disagreeing with me. I don't know what your problem is, but you can leave me out of it now. My friends and I will continue to parent in ways that we think is healthy and appropriate.  You're free to disagree if you want, but if you want to direct any further comments at me, don't bother.

[City Mouse]

When made an effort to Take my kids somewhere to do an activity or socialize with their kids, I expected them to participate is the activity. If they did not want to participate is the the activity and choose to sit with the adults, then i choose to take them home. It wasn't do much about the butting in or eavesdropping as it was about the timing. If they want to sit with me and converse, then we can do that for free at home.

[Guest]

It's pretty nuts, this convo. Sure, our children are precious creatures of God blah blah, but when you spend decades of your life in 24/7 close contact with them because you school them and parent them, they can darn well give you space for private adult relationships if that's what you want.

 

There's nothing inherently unhealthy in either scenario. But mums, like anyone else, are allowed to require time to speak to their friends without kids around!

... without having to pay someone money to watch them while you do it.

[TechWife]

So, let me run a few scenarios by you...

 

Your DH comes home and needs to discuss some upcoming travel requirements for work.  A couple minutes into the conversation, your child comes, stands, waits, and then at the next pause launches into a discussion about something interesting in the book she is reading.  Do you let the travel conversation be derailed because your obligation is to listen to whatever your child wants to tell you at the very moment that it occurs to them?

 

A friend is visiting, and over coffee she is telling you about the emotionally difficult decision they recently made to put their dog to sleep.  Same scenario, your child comes in mid-conversation and wants to talk to you about something fairly inconsequential that could be discussed later.  Do you blow off your friend's emotional sharing, that could be helping her through her grieving process, because you don't want to "dismiss" your child even temporarily?

 

What about if the emotional conversation is with one of your children?  Maybe one of your kids is in the middle of telling you about how he caught a friend smoking a cigarette, and he doesn't know how to handle the situation.  Your other child politely interrupts mid-conversation, wanting to discuss plans for her upcoming birthday.  Now where does your obligation lie?  I know if it was me, that I would politely tell the birthday planner to skedaddle because I needed to have a conversation with her brother.

 

Wendy 

 

Scenario 1: "That sounds like a great book, Honey. Daddy was just telling me that he is going on a trip next week. Let's talk about Daddy's trip and we can talk about  your book at dinner." Honey then gets to participate in the discussion about the trip, even if it is just listening in and even if it's asking questions, like "How will you get there? or "Will you be here for my soccer game?" Dad's response to that can be "On an airplane." or  "I have to leave Monday morning and come home on Thursday, so no, I won't make it, but Mommy and brother will be there, I can't wait to hear about it." Guess what? Both mom and Honey now know that Dad is flying and that he leaves Monday morning and returns Thursday. Boom, critical info communicated. Dad then asks Honey about the book at dinner. 

 

Scenario 2: "That's interesting, Honey. Right now Mrs. Smith is upset because her doggy died. Do you remember Pinocchio?" Honey: "Yes, he was a funny dog. I'm sorry you're sad Mrs. Smith." Followed by continued engagement or the child leaving of their own accord. If Mrs. Smith was truly distraught, it is up to me to direct her to a bedroom or private area, even to accompany her there to continue the conversation if desired. 

 

Scenario 3: "Sweetie, I'm excited about your birthday, too. Honey is upset, though and I need to talk to him." Sweetie: "Honey, why are you upset?" Honey chooses how to answer the question. Then the conversation either is relocated behind closed doors at Honey's initiative, carries on or is terminated. There is nothing wrong with Sweetie knowing Honey's friend is smoking. In fact, it can open up an opportunity to explain why it would be upsetting - "Because smoking makes the person who is smoking sick and it can make the people around them sick, too." 

 

Of course, the conversations take place with developmentally appropriate wording and explanations. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by TechWife

[winterbaby]

Scenario 1: "That sounds like a great book, Honey. Daddy was just telling me that he is going on a trip next week. Let's talk about Daddy's trip and we can talk about  your book at dinner." Honey then gets to participate in the discussion about the trip, even if it is just listening in and even if it's asking questions, like "How will you get there? or "Will you be here for my soccer game?" Dad's response to that can be "On an airplane." or  "I have to leave Monday morning and come home on Thursday, so no, I won't make it, but Mommy and brother will be there, I can't wait to hear about it." Guess what? Both mom and Honey now know that Dad is flying and that he leaves Monday morning and returns Thursday. Boom, critical info communicated. Dad then asks Honey about the book at dinner. 

 

Scenario 2: "That's interesting, Honey. Right now Mrs. Smith is upset because her doggy died. Do you remember Pinocchio?" Honey: "Yes, he was a funny dog. I'm sorry you're sad Mrs. Smith." Followed by continued engagement or the child leaving of their own accord. If Mrs. Smith was truly distraught, it is up to me to direct her to a bedroom or private area, even to accompany her there to continue the conversation if desired. 

 

Scenario 3: "Sweetie, I'm excited about your birthday, too. Honey is upset, though and I need to talk to him." Sweetie: "Honey, why are you upset?" Honey chooses how to answer the question. Then the conversation either is relocated behind closed doors at Honey's initiative, carries on or is terminated. There is nothing wrong with Sweetie knowing Honey's friend is smoking. In fact, it can open up an opportunity to explain why it would be upsetting - "Because smoking makes the person who is smoking sick and it can make the people around them sick, too." 

 

Of course, the conversations take place with developmentally appropriate wording and explanations. 

 

I think Wendy - or any parent - is entitled to her own judgment about whether the younger child should be receiving information about older child issues or the older child's specific friends. I thought the way she set the scenario up implied that her judgment was that it was not an appropriate time. And what you describe is really the parent facilitating the younger child putting the older child on the spot, which is unfair to the older child. Different levels of discussion are appropriate for different ages; why should the older child's need for a conversation at their own level automatically be compromised?

 

In the case of the travel discussion with the husband, logistics get a lot more detailed than "flying back on Thursday" and it may not really be a discussion to which a child can make a meaningful contribution. And I think parents are entitled to want to have the adult version of that conversation and not have to simultaneously translate everything that's said to the kid's level of comprehension.

 

Big picture though, what's the broader rationale for arranging everything - and constantly sacrificing other people's comfort levels - so that a child never has to hear, gently, that something doesn't concern him? Why would that be so bad?

[TeenagerMom]

Curious what happens when your older one wants to discuss something with you, privately, when your younger one wants to hang around and eavesdrop?

 

We've never really had that scenario happen.  Most of the time if they want to talk privately, they catch me when the other isn't around at all like in the car when we are alone.  But for the most part, both of my teens are pretty open with each other around and pretty much discuss anything in front of the other one.

[Valley Girl]

It's pretty nuts, this convo. Sure, our children are precious creatures of God blah blah, but when you spend decades of your life in 24/7 close contact with them because you school them and parent them, they can darn well give you space for private adult relationships if that's what you want.

 

There's nothing inherently unhealthy in either scenario. But mums, like anyone else, are allowed to require time to speak to their friends without kids around!

 

I'm so glad you said that!

[Murphy101]

It's pretty nuts, this convo. Sure, our children are precious creatures of God blah blah, but when you spend decades of your life in 24/7 close contact with them because you school them and parent them, they can darn well give you space for private adult relationships if that's what you want.

 

There's nothing inherently unhealthy in either scenario. But mums, like anyone else, are allowed to require time to speak to their friends without kids around!

I agree.

 

But the opposing attitude also explains why a thread some time back about marrying young sounded like the end of life to some on here. I wonder if this convo divides up similiar to that one?

Edited July 8, 2017 by Murphy101

[ChocolateReignRemix]

So you haven't had it happen yet? But what if it does? What if your 16 yr old daughter comes to you with questions about, lets say, a gynecological problem she's having, while her 14 yr old brother is outside shooting his BBguns. She has chosen a time while the other isn't around, and really doesn't want to be discussing her gynecology issues in the presence of her 14 yr old brother. But then, he gets finished and wanders in right in the middle of the discussion and plunks down at the table. What would you do?

We don't have private discussions in family space.

[TeenagerMom]

So you haven't had it happen yet?  But what if it does?  What if your 16 yr old daughter comes to you with questions about, lets say, a gynecological problem she's having, while her 14 yr old brother is outside shooting his BBguns.  She has chosen a time while the other isn't around, and really doesn't want to be discussing her gynecology issues in the presence of her 14 yr old brother.  But then, he gets finished and wanders in right in the middle of the discussion and plunks down at the table.  What would you do?

 

 

They pretty much say anything in front of each other.  We are pretty open about that kind of stuff around here.  I actually read this to her.  She said if she was talking about that stuff and he walked in, she'd just keep talking about it and he could deal with it or walk out since he will likely have a girlfriend or wife one day.  DS has some complicated male medical issues and she knows the details of those issues too.  Usually the only things DD wants to speak to me privately about is if she has a friend confide in her with a problem and she wants to know how to help said friend and if that were the situation, she would ask me if I wanted to go for a drive and I would know she needed to talk.

[unsinkable]

I don't recall at any point saying that he was a captive audience and not free to leave. He can listen/ask questions if he wants, he can leave and go play Minecraft or whatever if he wants. Please quote the post where I said he was forced to sit and listen against his will at any point.

 

The mommy wars have really escalated over the years. We've gone from, "You parent the way you want," to "you're a crappy parent if you don't have the same standards and values as me," to "you're being psychologically abusive and/or are a sexual predator if you and your friends have different ideas about parenting than I do."

 

You seem to have some specific issues with teenagers hearing about this stuff that go way beyond merely disagreeing with me. I don't know what your problem is, but you can leave me out of it now. My friends and I will continue to parent in ways that we think is healthy and appropriate. You're free to disagree if you want, but if you want to direct any further comments at me, don't bother.

 

 

I didn't address your parenting at all. Nor did I mention how I feel about "teenagers hearing this stuff."

 

My initial posts were about how in some situations talking about sex, etc. to children and adolescents might be grooming.

 

My other post was pointing out what your first post said (that you talked about sex, menopause and periods with the 13 yo boy sitting and listening and that he could leave) bc in subsequent posts, you implied that you didn't say that.

[TeenagerMom]

Huh.  I find that pretty unusual, but then again.......I don't discuss those sorts of issues with anyone if I can at all avoid it, lol. 

 

But it sounds like, if she were in the middle of a conversation with you that she DID want to keep private (such as your example of asking for advice for a friend) and he did walk in, you and she would then remove yourselves for a drive, rather than ask him to leave, is that right?

 

 

No, the conversation would never start in an area where it could be interrupted.  It would start out on a drive, in a bedroom, etc. where there is already a sort of expectation of privacy.

 

And we know we are really not a normal family :lol: .  My DD's friends are usually surprised at our family's dynamics which tells me how weird we really are.

[Joker]

I think I must just not like people other than dh and dc very much. I do not have these private conversations with other women that some of you are talking about and it honestly sounds like something I would hate. I don't mind casual chit chat but I don't need kids to disappear to have that. The only person I have truly private conversations with is dh and we have tons of time for that. Ds and dd usually tell each other stuff before they come to us with it so they never ask for privacy from one another to talk to dh or I. 

[Joker]

Yeah, I have quite a few friends with whom I share life's challenges, and vice versa. I honestly think that is quite normal. I've never understood the 'dh only' thing.

 

NOT that I'm saying your dynamic is abnormal. It works for you, great.

 

But it's not neccessarily the only, or the most usual way of engaging.

I have friends I share challenges with but it's still nothing private that I would need to ask kids to leave the area.

 

 

ETA: I wanted to add that pretty much all of my friends have zero experience with our parenting challenges. They can't understand or really help so that's not something I share much with anyone other than dh because he's the only person who gets it.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Joker

[zoobie]

I am not taking a friend into my bedroom to chat about her husband's TBI, because she prefers to do so without my kids around. My kitchen table is perfectly acceptable for that purpose.

 

My kids have perfectly comfortable bedrooms to use if the kitchen is currently being used for a private conversation.

Yeah... The kids can go to their rooms or the den or the playroom or the yard. There's no reason for them to be where we sit in the living room right that second. I have an age gap in my kids, so the baby/toddler toys are in here and the big kid toys are in the playroom. I'm still supervising my little kids the few times a year I have adults over. The rest of my life revolves around the kids. If there's blood or some kind of emergent existential crisis, interrupt. Otherwise, asking them to give me space with my friend isn't unreasonable. I also give them space with their friends. If they want to include me on something, they come ask me.

 

I can't imagine being expected to pay $15/hr for a babysitter just to have a private conversation with a friend. Plus $15/hr for her to get one as well? (Which wouldn't happen with out of town friends!) When I have a house with multiple (safe, clean, equally pleasant) spaces for kids to hang out? We aren't sending them to a dank pit of despair or locking them in a closet. Occasionally one kid isn't feeling the group thing and sits on the porch to read or does crafts in the other room. They can figure out some way to entertain themselves for an hour or so. Even if we were at a park, they could go for a walk or go swing or sit under a tree with a book.

[TeenagerMom]

I think I must just not like people other than dh and dc very much. I do not have these private conversations with other women that some of you are talking about and it honestly sounds like something I would hate. I don't mind casual chit chat but I don't need kids to disappear to have that. The only person I have truly private conversations with is dh and we have tons of time for that. Ds and dd usually tell each other stuff before they come to us with it so they never ask for privacy from one another to talk to dh or I. 

 

 

Yeah, I have quite a few friends with whom I share life's challenges, and vice versa. I honestly think that is quite normal. I've never understood the 'dh only' thing.

 

NOT that I'm saying your dynamic is abnormal. It works for you, great.

 

But it's not neccessarily the only, or the most usual way of engaging.

 

 

I have friends I share challenges with but just not when my kids/teens are even around.    I think people are taking some of my posts out of context like I have ZERO privacy to myself or give zero time to my friends.  I do it, just not in social group situations.  If my friends need my support or shoulder, they deserve to have 100% of my attention on them, so I try to make the effort to remove my obligation to parent my children in those situations by a) having a family member watch them (my husband or Mom) or B) hiring a sitter if that is truly needed.  If I were at a park day or pool day,  I wouldn't be able to give my undivided attention to a conversation simply because in those situations, my responsibility is to watch my kids. ESPECIALLY at a pool.  My son nearly drowned at a pool party because I turned my back for 1 second. After that, if they were in a pool, my attention was 100% on them.  At the park, my attention was still on them to make sure they were behaving appropriately, etc.

 

I'm not the only parent in the household and my husband has no issue parenting his kids while I fulfill other obligations, whether it's to someone else or myself so it is not usual for me to take me time by going out to dinner with a friend, etc while he is home with them. Most of my friends have spouses or family that will watch their kids also.  Heavy private conversations with the hubs have always happened after the kids go to bed.

 

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Huh, really? So anything that anyone wants to discuss in private has to be done....where, like in the person's bedroom?

Bedrooms. Study.

 

Not sure why anyone expects privacy in the kitchen. You wouldn't here with as much foot traffic as it gets.

[ktgrok]

I talk about some of these things with my friends.  Over Facebook, over the telephone, or over lunches, at MNO, etc without our children around. We hired sitters or traded sitting for "adult" time before our's were old enough to just stay home alone. But no, I rarely vent or anything about my teenagers to anyone other than my mother or my husband.  We also don't discuss our finances with anyone as those are private issues in our household.  But I also have no issues talking about my cramps in front of my children, even when they were younger.  They are normal biological functions and none of those things are taboo in our household.

 

I think the thing everyone can take from the thread is that the family culture can vary widely in different households and you should probably try to find like-minded friends or risk offending someone because your kids are included or aren't.

 

And I may not mind talking about them in front of my kids. But I don't want to talk about them in front of someone else's child. 

 

My playdate time IS my friend time. I don't have anyone to babysit, and it seems silly to hire someone to watch my kids when they could just play with her kids. The kids are all friends. Why on earth pay for someone to watch them so we can talk when they can just be in the next room? 

 

I have adult friendships and conversations sometimes the same way I don't invite my children to read the forums here. Or my Facebook messages. Other times they of course hang out with the adults. More often than not .

[ktgrok]

Whereas, I would probably distance myself from someone who thought discussing their private needs should mean sending my child off to be by themselves (if they have no one else they want to hang out with, etc) in a public situation like a group gathering. I would rather discuss issues like those in a more intimate setting like coffee, etc instead of a group situation where multiple people may need to halt the conversation to attend to their multiple children.  I've never been to a park day, etc. where there weren't multiple boo boos, toddlers running off, babies needing diapers changed, nursed, etc. 

 

Weren't we talking about a park day, where there were plenty of other kids for them to go play with?

[TeenagerMom]

I would just think that, should there only be 2 people in the house, because everyone else is off doing something else, be it shooting BBguns, or taking a walk, or at a friends house down the street or whatever....that alone constitutes an expectation of privacy. 

 

 

My kitchen, my rules. It hasn't maimed my kids psyches yet.

 

Again, I think it's a difference in family culture.  Our house is old, with thin walls, and small.  The only private rooms are the bedrooms and bathroom, and well, thin walls. You can pretty much hear any conversations if you are awake.  Our kitchen isn't an eat in kitchen.  I go outside to have private phone conversations.  There is almost never only 2 people in our house.  Four of us live here.  DH works night shift and only works 3 nights a week, so sleeps in the morning and is around the rest of the afternoon. DD works varied shifts.  I work a couple of days a week.  99% of the time, there are at least 3 people here.  We all sleep with fans on to drown out environmental noise because there is someone awake and living in the house 24/7 since DH keeps a night shift schedule on his days off.

Edited July 9, 2017 by TeenagerMom

[ChocolateReignRemix]

My kitchen, my rules. It hasn't maimed my kids psyches yet.

Here we wouldn't expect not the be interrupted.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Do people who take a friend into the bedroom have big bedrooms or something?

 

If I take a friend into my bedroom, we can stand up next to my wardrobe, or we can sit on my bed. I don't really want to have people sitting all over my bed. My bed can be sat on by dh, my kids, my nephew and my sister. That's it! Plus, most of the time it's not even made, bed making not being high on my list of priorities.

 

I guess if I had a morning room in my bedroom, with chairs and stuff, I would feel more comfortable taking a friend into my bedroom. Especially if I had a maid to tidy away my underthings each morning. And dh's underthings.

 

lol, in the study. Our study is packed with books and all dd18's school stuff for this year. It's not a cosy chat place. My kitchen, on the other hand, is a cosy chat place.

The question I answered was regarding a private conversation with my own child.

[ktgrok]

All of a sudden my adult friendships seem very risque. I jut yesterday asked some friends for condom and lube recommendations!!

I don't discuss my sex life (even in general terms) with adult friends. I don't discuss cramps either. And none of my friends have either. I would assume that all of us discuss those with our spouse and doctors if there is a problem. (I don't think that we're prudes. We just don't discuss it. No need. )

We discuss books and movies and hobbies and family and faith and (to a lesser generalized degree) health. None of these would worry me if a child or teen or an adult male came over to join in.


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[TeenagerMom]

Do people who take a friend into the bedroom have big bedrooms or something?

 

If I take a friend into my bedroom, we can stand up next to my wardrobe, or we can sit on my bed. I don't really want to have people sitting all over my bed. My bed can be sat on by dh, my kids, my nephew and my sister. That's it! Plus, most of the time it's not even made, bed making not being high on my list of priorities. 

 

I guess if I had a morning room in my bedroom, with chairs and stuff, I would feel more comfortable taking a friend into my bedroom. Especially if I had a maid to tidy away my underthings each morning. And dh's underthings.

 

lol, in the study. Our study is packed with books and all dd18's school stuff for this year. It's not a cosy chat place. My kitchen, on the other hand, is a cosy chat place.

 

 

I don't take friends in the bedroom to have a private conversation, but we don't have friends come over to visit.  We usually meet up at a coffee shop or restaurant.

 

But a morning room, where I could hide to read, sounds divine.

[ktgrok]

That's how it goes in my groups too. We are all pretty open with one another but wouldn't discuss that if a kid had wandered over. A lot of us cannot arrange other times to get together without children so it gets tricky.

 

Same. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Boy, this conversation has morphed!  It started with a mom expecting complete privacy at a park day - or at least that is how I read it.  To me, that is a public setting where all sorts of people wander in and out of the conversation space.  So I would have zero expectation for privacy and would not be upset if I didn't get it.  If for some reason I really needed privacy I would do what someone else mentioned at some point - we would draw aside where was a visual social reminder to people that we were trying to carve out a "private space" even in a greater public setting.  But I wouldn't do that all the time because it's hard to do and I think that some would not get the cues and then it would be frustrating. 

 

I do expect and get privacy at times with friends.  When the kids were little, we carved out time to do it even if it was asking the friend to come over at a time when I knew that my kids would be otherwise occupied (even if it meant that I had specifically set it up so that they would be occupied with a game or a tv show.)  Now that my kids are older, I would just warn them that we need some privacy or more often than not, we just leave to go for coffee because my kids don't need supervision. 

 

But private uninterrupted conversations are more "crisis" situations for me.  90% of what I talk about with friends is "open source" and no one cares if the kids are there too.  But then my kids, once they got to the age referred to in this thread, would only really be interested in conversations that were more casual and had particular interest for them.  If they felt like the conversation was too personal, they would get up and leave on their own because it simply wouldn't interest them.  I wouldn't have to ask them to leave. 

[zoobie]

A morning room is my dream!

Yes! I would only let one of my cats in. The other is weird. And maybe DH but he would need to ask first. :rofl:

[Jean in Newcastle]

All of a sudden my adult friendships seem very risque. I jut yesterday asked some friends for condom and lube recommendations!!

 

That is weird to me.  I'm not saying that you're weird.  Obviously it works in your friendships.  But it just is not something that I would even think to talk about and apparently it doesn't occur to my friends either because it has never ever come up. 

[MegP]

Not just condoms and lube, but periods, sex, medical issues, problems with our kids, in laws, issues with husbands...

 

I do not discuss any of that in front of my kids. Or anyone else's kids.

 

I cannot fathom not having female friendships that are intimate enough to discuss these things.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by MegP

[ktgrok]

That is weird to me.  I'm not saying that you're weird.  Obviously it works in your friendships.  But it just is not something that I would even think to talk about and apparently it doesn't occur to my friends either because it has never ever come up. 

 

So who do you go to with questions like that? Or about hemmrhoids? Or the best menstrual cup? Or do other people just google and not ask people for personal opinions?

 

Or I guess there is here, now that i think about it, lol. 

[Guest]

So who do you go to with questions like that? Or about hemmrhoids? Or the best menstrual cup? Or do other people just google and not ask people for personal opinions?

 

Or I guess there is here, now that i think about it, lol.

I think there was a thread here once about whether or not you talk about sex etc with girlfriends.

 

... And many ppl emphatically do not lol

[TeenagerMom]

So who do you go to with questions like that? Or about hemmrhoids? Or the best menstrual cup? Or do other people just google and not ask people for personal opinions?

 

Or I guess there is here, now that i think about it, lol. 

 

I google. I ask my dr. I buy different kinds and experiment.  I look for recommendations on message boards, etc. 

 

I do have a couple of close friends I discuss things like my period with.  Not my sex life. 

 

I also don't discuss financial issues with anyone other than my husband.

[Jean in Newcastle]

So who do you go to with questions like that? Or about hemmrhoids? Or the best menstrual cup? Or do other people just google and not ask people for personal opinions?

 

Or I guess there is here, now that i think about it, lol. 

 

I google.  Or ask my doctor.  Or I ask online in (relative) anonymity. 

 

I don't want to spend the time going back to multi-quote but I do talk about family issues (whether kid or ILs or very very rarely dh) but those conversations don't tend to happen in a public setting.  I did say that I do, and have, scheduled more private conversations with people.  Otherwise, I talk on the telephone where I can choose more privacy by going to a private area like my deck.  Or I text my friends (in fact I do this the most of anything) where we can read each other's texts in privacy.  But not everything about my kids or ILs or dh are an "issue".  Lots of times we are just chatting about funny stuff.  I don't feel the need to keep that private from anyone. 

 

I have some very long term friendships (in the 30 and 40 year range) that are very close.  But we have scheduled time to get together in private over the years.  Our husbands support us in that and have made it easier for us to make it a priority.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Boy, this conversation has morphed!  It started with a mom expecting complete privacy at a park day - or at least that is how I read it.  To me, that is a public setting where all sorts of people wander in and out of the conversation space.

 

That's not what the OP was about at all, though. There's a big difference between complete privacy and having other people's kids sitting there listening to the entire conversation. I don't expect complete privacy at park day or the pool or co-op or whatever--there are always interruptions and pauses. But there's not usually kids sitting with us for the entire time listening to all the details of whatever we're discussing. And honestly, the whole reason we go to park day or the pool or co-op is FOR the kids, so if we can't expect them to occupy themselves at those places, why are we even there? 

 

I cannot fathom not having female friendships that are intimate enough to discuss these things.

 

 

Me either! I'd lose my mind. There are some things DH just doesn't want to hear or talk about, and some things he just can't understand, and for those things, I need my girlfriends. I actually can't even post here anonymously, because there are at least a few people IRL who know me here, but they're not necessarily the people I'd discuss this stuff with (though one is  :coolgleamA:  :seeya: ). 

[TeenagerMom]

That's not what the OP was about at all, though. There's a big difference between complete privacy and having other people's kids sitting there listening to the entire conversation. I don't expect complete privacy at park day or the pool or co-op or whatever--there are always interruptions and pauses. But there's not usually kids sitting with us for the entire time listening to all the details of whatever we're discussing. And honestly, the whole reason we go to park day or the pool or co-op is FOR the kids, so if we can't expect them to occupy themselves at those places, why are we even there? 

 

 

 

Me either! I'd lose my mind. There are some things DH just doesn't want to hear or talk about, and some things he just can't understand, and for those things, I need my girlfriends. I actually can't even post here anonymously, because there are at least a few people IRL who know me here, but they're not necessarily the people I'd discuss this stuff with (though one is  :coolgleamA:  :seeya: ). 

 

Do you not have friends who have children of varying ages?  Sometimes when we were at an event (park, playdate, etc), DS would have friends there but DD wouldn't.....or vice versa.  Mine are teens now but I still have friends who will have say, an 8 year old who came to play with friends and a 13 year old who ends up getting dragged along to the park by default.  The 13 year old is just expected to be left out and not included in anything because they don't necessarily have a friend there to hang out with?  Those are the types of things I'm envisioning. 

 

The OP was very definitely raising questions about people that don't make the kids leave the adults alone so the adults can have a discussion without children present.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Do you not have friends who have children of varying ages?  Sometimes when we were at an event (park, playdate, etc), DS would have friends there but DD wouldn't.....or vice versa.  Mine are teens now but I still have friends who will have say, an 8 year old who came to play with friends and a 13 year old who ends up getting dragged along to the park by default.  The 13 year old is just expected to be left out and not included in anything because they don't necessarily have a friend there to hang out with?  Those are the types of things I'm envisioning. 

 

The OP was very definitely raising questions about people that don't make the kids leave the adults alone so the adults can have a discussion without children present.

 

 

I do, and my own kids have several years between them. They still managed to find ways to occupy themselves if they didn't have a friend of their own there. Bring a book, take a walk, swing, go climb the jungle gym... I was an only child. There's plenty of value in knowing how to keep yourself busy and not expecting to be entertained at all times. 

 

And yes, the OP was very definitely raising that question. That's still not complete privacy. I don't think anyone goes to park day and expects not to see or talk to a child during the entirety of the event. 

[TeenagerMom]

I do, and my own kids have several years between them. They still managed to find ways to occupy themselves if they didn't have a friend of their own there. Bring a book, take a walk, swing, go climb the jungle gym... I was an only child. There's plenty of value in knowing how to keep yourself busy and not expecting to be entertained at all times. 

 

And yes, the OP was very definitely raising that question. That's still not complete privacy. I don't think anyone goes to park day and expects not to see or talk to a child during the entirety of the event. 

 

Mine definitely knew how to entertain themselves at that age, but if I were to drag them to the park so their sibling could have a playdate (in our case it probably would have been after co-op, dr appt, etc where I had both with me), I wouldn't expect them to just entertain themselves. I could leave them at home for that.  Obviously, if they wanted to plug in their earbuds and drown out the world, that's fine, but I wouldn't make them go to a social event and then expect them to just be by themselves so the adults could talk without them. 

 

Again, it really must just be my family's weirdness :lol: cuz the idea of doing those things just really seems strange to me.

[Joker]

Not just condoms and lube, but periods, sex, medical issues, problems with our kids, in laws, issues with husbands...

 

I do not discuss any of that in front of my kids. Or anyone else's kids.

 

I cannot fathom not having female friendships that are intimate enough to discuss these things.

 

Yeah, I have no use for condoms (vasectomy years ago) or lube so I would have nothing to offer and nothing to ask.

 

I don't understand talking about periods. I sometimes mention them at home if one is particularly bad but I will do that in front of dh, ds, and dd and it's nothing that is a big deal. I have zero desire to talk/hear about them with/from anyone else.

 

Dh and I are more than good in the sex department and I have no desire to hear other women talk about their sex lives. 

 

I have no problem discussing medical issues in front of kids.

 

I don't really discuss problems with my kids with anyone (because they won't understand) other than dh. 

 

I have no issues with my in laws or my husband. If I do have an issue with dh, I talk with him about it but not my friends. 

 

I have good female friends, one since grade school, but these are still not things we discuss. It's obviously not just me since none of them bring those things up either. 

 

I have no problem with those saying they want the privacy, but I maintain that I and my friends don't need the privacy. I'm not going to be one who would automatically shoo my dc away because you're talking about something that I have zero issue with talking about in front of my, or your, kids. I have intimate female relationships but they look very different from what some have posted here. My way isn't the right way but it's not wrong either. I'm sure this is why I have found the friends I have that also feel the same and why you have found the right friends for you. They're different, but both are fine.

[Farrar]

I think there was a thread here once about whether or not you talk about sex etc with girlfriends.

 

... And many ppl emphatically do not lol

 

I learned from that thread that not only do some people never ever discuss sex with their friends, they also never ever discuss sex with the people they have sex with and don't understand why anyone would.

 

So... to each their own.

[fairfarmhand]

All of a sudden my adult friendships seem very risque. I jut yesterday asked some friends for condom and lube recommendations!!

did you stand up an announce that in front of the whole park day?

 

 

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