End of life issues....an ICU nurse looks at intensive care......trigger warning

[FaithManor]

Unfortunately having the talk doesn't matter when the senior is determined to pass the buck rather than plan ahead and set something aside for there own expenses. Add in letting the home decay because vacation is more important. I would like fast food, casino, and cruises to be taxed heavily for every senior they sell to who doesn't have proof of a funded plan for body disposal.

Funeral expenses are atrocious. Just atrocious. I think society should just boycott this, have a back yard barbecue after cremating the remains, no expensive urn necessary as there are some really decent looking ones in the clearance at Michael's!

 

I am not kidding. It is extraordinary to me how much crypts, caskets, and the like cost. Just crazy.

 

My mom wants a three day thing for my dna donor with expensive stuff. She doesn't have the money, so guess who he wants to pay for it? Uhm....no, not happening. 

 

I am not for taxing retired folk over this issue, after all as someone whose 18 year old son was critically injured in a car crash when someone else decided to text and drive at high speeds, it isn't only the old who die. No thanks. Not wanting to get into that. But, in general, as a whole. something needs to be done to make burying or cremating a loved one a NON financial emergency event of ridiculous proportions. I'd be ALL for that. But some of it has an awful lot to do with family and cultural expectations which isn't something that one can change through public policy.

[regentrude]

 But, in general, as a whole. something needs to be done to make burying or cremating a loved one a NON financial emergency event of ridiculous proportions. I'd be ALL for that. But some of it has an awful lot to do with family and cultural expectations which isn't something that one can change through public policy.

 

First they should eliminate a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations and make it easier for environmentally friendly burials without caskets, embalming, headstones etc.

[FaithManor]

First they should eliminate a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations and make it easier for environmentally friendly burials without caskets, embalming, headstones etc.

100% agreed!  :iagree:

[Laura Corin]

First they should eliminate a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations and make it easier for environmentally friendly burials without caskets, embalming, headstones etc.

Yes. I was really surprised that some places in the US mandate embalming.  Here's my dad's resting place in a willow coffin:

 

http://www.memorialwoodlands.com/cemetery/

[regentrude]

Yes. I was really surprised that some places in the US mandate embalming.  Here's my dad's resting place in a willow coffin:

 

http://www.memorialwoodlands.com/cemetery/

 

THAT is how I want to be buried.

[kiana]

When my brother's dog died we buried her at the roots of a dogwood tree. It's "her tree". I wish we could do something similar for humans. 

[unsinkable]

First they should eliminate a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations and make it easier for environmentally friendly burials without caskets, embalming, headstones etc.

Headstones aren't required at cemeteries here.

 

And new laws have been passed that allow cremated remains to be buried into existing plots of relatives.

 

And most cemeteries here have always allowed an infant to buried in an existing plot with a relative.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Unfortunately having the talk doesn't matter when the senior is determined to pass the buck rather than plan ahead and set something aside for there own expenses. Add in letting the home decay because vacation is more important. I would like fast food, casino, and cruises to be taxed heavily for every senior they sell to who doesn't have proof of a funded plan for body disposal.

 

Although I can't say that I blame the living for that. 

 

Body disposal shouldn't be so damn expensive.  I am in shock at how much a freaking cremation costs.  Just that..nothing else.  Stupid.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Headstones aren't required at cemeteries here.

 

And new laws have been passed that allow cremated remains to be buried into existing plots of relatives.

 

And most cemeteries here have always allowed an infant to buried in an existing plot with a relative.

 

It still costs thousands.

[FaithManor]

Yes. I was really surprised that some places in the US mandate embalming.  Here's my dad's resting place in a willow coffin:

 

http://www.memorialwoodlands.com/cemetery/

It isn't mandatory here, one can have cremation immediately following death so long as foul play is not suspected, but I have heard of places that require embalming even if cremation is preferred or is going to be the end result anyway.

 

I suspect that the funeral industry has lobbied for this. I mean, I can't prove it, but when you follow the money chain, often you find the answer to "WHY?"

 

Here it is a $1500.00 crypt, $500.00 plot, and $500.00 pine box mandatory if one is not doing cremation. Direct burial without embalming is allowed. But, the funeral homes raised the cost of cremation to be the same as embalming. Still cheaper mind you because you aren't paying for the crypt or plot, but not an inexpensive option either.

 

Dh and I solved the issue for our kids or at least so long as we don't die overseas or something unusual. We are donating our bodies to U of MI University Medical Center so future medical professionals can be trained. Med schools and research facilities often have a hard time getting cadavers. This seemed like a really good plan. I don't need my body anymore, maybe someone can use it to learn how to save someone else's life. U of MI does a beautiful, very respectful memorial service for all of their donors each year and family are welcome to attend.

[unsinkable]

It still costs thousands.

That wasn't my point. My point is there are ways to save money and that some changes are being made.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That wasn't my point. My point is there are ways to save money and that some changes are being made.

 

That's good to know because I think what they charge is insane. 

 

We did the absolute least expensive that didn't involve cremation for my mother and it was still thousands.  No headstone.  Nothin. 

[unsinkable]

That's good to know because I think what they charge is insane.

 

We did the absolute least expensive that didn't involve cremation for my mother and it was still thousands. No headstone. Nothin.

It is a tough situation.

 

I was a teenager when my parents died and the funeral home would not take the dress I wanted my Mom buried in because it wasn't long sleeved. They said it wouldn't be appropriate.

 

But they were happy to sell me a "burial gown" for $350.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It is a tough situation.

 

I was a teenager when my parents died and the funeral home would not take the dress I wanted my Mom buried in because it wasn't long sleeved. They said it wouldn't be appropriate.

 

But they were happy to sell me a "burial gown" for $350.

 

Ugh that's crazy.  You probably could have gotten something nice second hand.  But then in that moment it's like the last thing you really want to go out and do (and they know that). 

 

I get it, it's a business like any business, but if someone is just going to rot in the ground with a dress on...it doesn't need to cost $350.  I didn't even spend that much on my wedding dress. 

 

(sorry to sound so morbid) 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm still considering trying to arrange to donate my body to science.  I think that would be kinda cool. 

 

Apparently that's no guarantee though.  They may or may not want your body at that time.  But hey it's worth a shot.

 

 

[unsinkable]

Ugh that's crazy. You probably could have gotten something nice second hand. But then in that moment it's like the last thing you really want to go out and do (and they know that).

 

I get it, it's a business like any business, but if someone is just going to rot in the ground with a dress on...it doesn't need to cost $350. I didn't even spend that much on my wedding dress.

 

(sorry to sound so morbid)

No, it's OK. It sucks. I had all her clothes that I wanted her buried in and the guy just acted like a jerk. He just rifled through them and shoved them all back at me.

 

Someone was supposed to tell me that she didnt need underwear or a bra but I didn't get the message. So I was holding everything I brought and walking behind him as he pulled "burial gowns" off the rack for me to look at.

 

It was horrible and surreal. Just holding her clothes, the clothes that broke my heart to pick out and then to have them shoved back me at me bc they were "wrong."

[SparklyUnicorn]

No, it's OK. It sucks. I had all her clothes that I wanted her buried in and the guy just acted like a jerk. He just rifled through them and shoved them all back at me.

 

Someone was supposed to tell me that she didnt need underwear or a bra but I didn't get the message. So I was holding everything I brought and walking behind him as he pulled "burial gowns" off the rack for me to look at.

 

It was horrible and surreal. Just holding her clothes, the clothes that broke my heart to pick out and then to have them shoved back me at me bc they were "wrong."

 

That stinks.  Really.  For all that money they should have been treating you like the Queen of England.

 

Ugh...I'm so sorry.

[Ottakee]

In Michigan the cheapest, barest bones, cremation is $1500 with transport from place of death, fees, etc. That was the best I could do for my husband's uncle last week.....And seriously, we were looking at the absolute minimum....No services, no obituary in the paper, nothing.

[Guest]

First they should eliminate a bunch of unnecessary rules and regulations and make it easier for environmentally friendly burials without caskets, embalming, headstones etc.

You can do this now.

In no state is embalming a legal requirement

In no state is a headstone a legal requirement.

 

If you want a simple and eco-friendly burial, ask the funeral home to follow protocols for Orthodox Jewish or Orthodox Christian burial.

 

I have done this in two states and found that a 3-day burial / cremation is available at multiple funeral homes in the cities I was in. Cost, including all paperwork and transit is under $800. For burial, obviously you need a plot. Dh and I got ours a few years ago in a country graveyard. $1000 each. We will have pine caskets handmade for $300. All in (haha) for $2100.

[unsinkable]

That stinks. Really. For all that money they should have been treating you like the Queen of England.

 

Ugh...I'm so sorry.

Thank you. It means a lot that you said that.

 

To lighten things up a bit: I still wonder why she didn't a bra!

[FaithManor]

It is a tough situation.

 

I was a teenager when my parents died and the funeral home would not take the dress I wanted my Mom buried in because it wasn't long sleeved. They said it wouldn't be appropriate.

 

But they were happy to sell me a "burial gown" for $350.

THAT IS HORRIBLE! Oh my word. And it happened years ago, but it still makes me want to smack those people for doing that to you. 

 

Dirty, low down dirty, that's all there is to say about it.

[Catwoman]

No, it's OK. It sucks. I had all her clothes that I wanted her buried in and the guy just acted like a jerk. He just rifled through them and shoved them all back at me.

 

Someone was supposed to tell me that she didnt need underwear or a bra but I didn't get the message. So I was holding everything I brought and walking behind him as he pulled "burial gowns" off the rack for me to look at.

 

It was horrible and surreal. Just holding her clothes, the clothes that broke my heart to pick out and then to have them shoved back me at me bc they were "wrong."

I know Wendy and Faith have already posted everything I wanted to say, but I'm so sorry you were treated that way. :grouphug:

 

And picking out a dress for someone to wear in their casket is a very emotional thing, and it can mean so much. :crying:

[Seasider]

Unfortunately having the talk doesn't matter when the senior is determined to pass the buck rather than plan ahead and set something aside for there own expenses. Add in letting the home decay because vacation is more important. I would like fast food, casino, and cruises to be taxed heavily for every senior they sell to who doesn't have proof of a funded plan for body disposal.

Amen

[Guest]

In Michigan the cheapest, barest bones, cremation is $1500 with transport from place of death, fees, etc. That was the best I could do for my husband's uncle last week.....And seriously, we were looking at the absolute minimum....No services, no obituary in the paper, nothing.

I know a man who adbvocares for Orthodox Christians to be able to have an Orthodox end of life. He said Michigan is about the WORST in the entire country for forcing unwanted and optional procedures and requirements on people.

 

One of our best friend's mom died in Michigan and my friend wasn't taking any crap from the Michigan funeral home. They lied to him about everything. My friend called the advocate and HE got the force of law behind him with those guys and my friend got his mom buried rightly.

 

There ARE exceptions re: embalming/required but not in the world of a relatively quick turnaround. Like a couple of weeks.

[unsinkable]

THAT IS HORRIBLE! Oh my word. And it happened years ago, but it still makes me want to smack those people for doing that to you.

 

Dirty, low down dirty, that's all there is to say about it.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Dh and I solved the issue for our kids or at least so long as we don't die overseas or something unusual. We are donating our bodies to U of MI University Medical Center so future medical professionals can be trained. Med schools and research facilities often have a hard time getting cadavers. This seemed like a really good plan. I don't need my body anymore, maybe someone can use it to learn how to save someone else's life. U of MI does a beautiful, very respectful memorial service for all of their donors each year and family are welcome to attend.

I'm considering this too. We went to a talk by a professor at our nearest medical school.

[unsinkable]

I know Wendy and Faith have already posted everything I wanted to say, but I'm so sorry you were treated that way. :grouphug:

 

And picking out a dress for someone to wear in their casket is a very emotional thing, and it can mean so much. :crying:

Thank you. It''s sweet of you.

 

It was pink, the burial gown. The dress I brought was pink, too, so I felt a little better, like *this is kind of similar*. My mom looked so pretty in pink (I'm sorry! No 80s reference intended!)

[Joules]

THAT IS HORRIBLE! Oh my word. And it happened years ago, but it still makes me want to smack those people for doing that to you. 

 

Dirty, low down dirty, that's all there is to say about it.

 

And she was a teenager!  Can you imagine one of our teens trying to navigate a tragedy of that proportion and being treated like that!!  It makes my blood boil!!

[Joules]

Thank you. It''s sweet of you.

 

It was pink, the burial gown. The dress I brought was pink, too, so I felt a little better, like *this is kind of similar*. My mom looked so pretty in pink (I'm sorry! No 80s reference intended!)

:grouphug:  I'm so, so sorry.  That's just heart-breaking.  :grouphug:

[Seasider]

No, it's OK. It sucks. I had all her clothes that I wanted her buried in and the guy just acted like a jerk. He just rifled through them and shoved them all back at me.

 

Someone was supposed to tell me that she didnt need underwear or a bra but I didn't get the message. So I was holding everything I brought and walking behind him as he pulled "burial gowns" off the rack for me to look at.

 

It was horrible and surreal. Just holding her clothes, the clothes that broke my heart to pick out and then to have them shoved back me at me bc they were "wrong."

Oh, no. I am so sorry that happened to you. what an awful man. I am sorry you lost your mom so young.

[unsinkable]

And she was a teenager! Can you imagine one of our teens trying to navigate a tragedy of that proportion and being treated like that!! It makes my blood boil!!

:grouphug: I'm so, so sorry. That's just heart-breaking. :grouphug:

Thank you so much. I look at my own kids and think the same thing.

[unsinkable]

Oh, no. I am so sorry that happened to you. what an awful man. I am sorry you lost your mom so young.

Thank you very much.

[Reefgazer]

I pretty sure people can get around this law by asking for an orthodox burial.

 

ETA:  I see Patty Joanna answered this in more detail.

 

Yes. I was really surprised that some places in the US mandate embalming.  Here's my dad's resting place in a willow coffin:

 

http://www.memorialwoodlands.com/cemetery/

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by reefgazer

[Guest]

I *think* religious people can get around this law by asking for an orthodox burial.

Yes. But there is no LEGAL reason non-religious cannot use the same protocol. It is LEGAL.

[Reefgazer]

Yes, I edited to correct that.

Yes. But there is no LEGAL reason non-religious cannot use the same protocol. It is LEGAL.

 

[Katy]

I think the exceptions where it is legally required have to do with shipping a body in advanced decomposition where it is not in the correct sort of sealed casket to deal with the potential mess & smell.  IE:  In typical circumstances where someone died in their home town and were found within hours, there is no reason for embalming at all if you don't want it.

 

I don't know if this site is reputable, but it popped up when I was googling:   http://www.fcasocal.org/embalming-facts.html

[Reefgazer]

When my dad died, the funeral home required emblaming if you wanted a viewing. If you didn't want embalming, you couldn't have a viewing. So people are forced to go down the road of embalming if they want that viewing, and the embalming and service fees for that viewing really jacks up the cost of a funeral. OTOH, the viewing is important for some people for closure.

I think the exceptions where it is legally required have to do with shipping a body in advanced decomposition where it is not in the correct sort of sealed casket to deal with the potential mess & smell. IE: In typical circumstances where someone died in their home town and were found within hours, there is no reason for embalming at all if you don't want it.

 

I don't know if this site is reputable, but it popped up when I was googling: http://www.fcasocal.org/embalming-facts.html

[Laura Corin]

When my dad died, the funeral home required emblaming if you wanted a viewing. If you didn't want embalming, you couldn't have a viewing. So people are forced to go down the road of embalming if they want that viewing, and the embalming and service fees for that viewing really jacks up the cost of a funeral. OTOH, the viewing is important for some people for closure.

I think viewings may be less common in the UK. I've not been to one.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think viewings may be less common in the UK. I've not been to one.

 

They aren't in Germany either, but technically my FIL had one.  Just very very private due to the circumstances of my husband not being there.  I guess.  Honestly I think he would have preferred not to have had to see that.  There was no attempt to dress up the body.  No embalming.  Just a dead body naturally speaking...after being dead for awhile.  WHEW...I totally get why people want the body dressed up a bit.  I am not glad I saw that.

[FaithManor]

It might be helpful to talk numbers here since there are many care givers on the board right now who are facing these future decisions when it comes to funeral planning.

 

It varies from state to state, and even region to region within states, so I'll speak only to "Mid-Michigan" in general. The average what is called medium priced traditional burial package is around $6500.00. This would include embalming so there is a viewing, 1 day of viewing, and the next day the funeral. It does not cover things like a funeral dinner. Traditionally many churches offered these for free to members, however that is kind of going the way of the dodo here due to rising costs and shrinking church budgets. Also, one county over, public events like wedding reception dinners, funeral dinners, etc. that are going to feed more than 25 people cannot be potluck, and must be provided by a licensed caterer. That adds a lot of cost if one is having a luncheon and feeding very many people. My mother wants to invite everyone they have ever known - which is a lot of people because he owned a prominent business in the county for 50 years - and wants a full spread funeral dinner. She has no money to pay for it, and we have two kids in college so we said no. After all, dd's wedding was for 75 people so we could afford decent food, albeit not fancy, food.  We estimate that what she wants for the funeral dinner would cost $2000.00 to provide.

 

Direct cremation without a viewing so no casket or embalming, is only $1500.00 on average. Should something happen and our bodies can't be transported to U of MI Medical Center in the allotted time frame, this is what we would hope our kids would choose. We have the money earmarked to take care of that plus more so they can do what they want, but don't see the point of such expense.

 

The medium package above also assumes that one is having a small funeral held inside the funeral chapel. If one has more people attending than what the funeral home can seat for the service, there are further expenses to transporting the body to a church or other location plus staying with the body as Michigan law doesn't allow it to be left out at a church unattended. There are transportation permits that must be filed and the death certificate must be signed by a licensed funeral director in addition to a doctor and an ME. Some funeral directors charge for their signature as a fee independent of other fees so you need to ask ahead.

 

Direct burial or cremation must occur within 48 hours. While state law actually does allow for a family member to transport the body, local ordinances do not always allow this which is why it has traditionally been a funeral director service fee. If you decide to cut costs by doing transportation yourself, check all of the ordinances along the road ways between you  and the funeral home, cemetery, or crematorium.

 

Funeral directors will not tell you this, but in Michigan, they are legally required to accept a third party casket. So if you can find one cheaper some place else, they must let you use it. They cannot prevent you from using a homemade one so long as it is sturdy enough to do the job. There is no state law requiring a vault. However, cemeteries can set whatever rules they see fit about this. A lot of times townships make their rules based on recommendations concerning water contamination and what not. I have yet to hear of anyone who did not have to purchase a vault in my area. We are kind of low here in elevation, and quite wet, so I would imagine this is a public safety issue. 

 

You do not have to purchase a casket per se for cremation by law. However, most crematoriums require a sturdy cardboard or wood box so that their employees do not directly handle the body.

 

It is not illegal to bury someone on the family farm. However, it obviously requires previous approval, and the permits are not easy to get because there has to be a public health evaluation, and a full acre of land designated as a "burial ground" for public knowledge, and disclosed if one later sells the property. We have heard of people applying for these permits, but never of them being approved. I think the biggest issue would be planning far in advance. That is not a process that can take place within the 48 hours allotted to burying a body that hasn't been embalmed.

 

It should be noted that for veterans, if one can extract the actual benefit from the VA something that many have difficulty in achieving, there is a $300.00 burial benefit and up to $749.00 towards the plot. I have not yet ascertained if one can get the $300.00 if one is cremating. It is specifically called a burial benefit from what I've seen. I have not seen the fine print on that.

 

The nitty gritty is that if you don't have the money or wish not to spend it on disposal of your loved one's body, something that no state law requires anyone to do, you can sign the body over to the county coroner. The county will pay for the cremation of the body, and for the ashes to be placed in a common grave, or will release the ashes to you for a fee in some cases. Not all counties do that. 

 

Dh and I, out of necessity since we will have to financially support my mother for the rest of her life, have earmarked no dollars for burial or cremation. If other family members want to pitch in for that, they can. We have said we would pay for the use of a church or other gathering place for a private memorial and luncheon for 75 people. She is very unhappy with us. But we are taking on another very expensive dependent at a time when we have two kids in college and another headed there in a year. So she can spend what little they have left for the big, expensive funeral if she wants. We aren't going to dictate to her what to do with the last $15,000 they have in this world, but we also aren't gong to contribute to such a financially unsound decision either.

 

Anyway, that is what things cost around here, and some of the laws of this state in a nutshell. Michigan is a bad, bad state for funeral costs so some of you may not have so much expense where you are. I do think it is REALLY important to hammer these things out before the decisions actually have to be made. It is a pretty rough time, and GAH, what happened to Unsinkable is just awful! I mean, what a low life funeral director! But, that could happen to any of us even though we aren't that young because at the time emotions are raw and the pressure to make snap decisions is very real.

 

Oh, and avoid the "loans". You know how there are "parent loans" for college which are usually high interest? Well there are funeral loans now and many directors push them. The terms are not good. And of course with a 48 hour window of doing something legal with your loved one's body, the pressure to sign would be great. 

[regentrude]

I think viewings may be less common in the UK. I've not been to one.

 

It's not done at all in Germany; I never heard of it.

Really, why would I want to look at the waxen embalmed corpse?

[FaithManor]

It's not done at all in Germany; I never heard of it.

Really, why would I want to look at the waxen embalmed corpse?

I have often wondered where and when the practice came into tradition in some western cultures.

 

The Egyptians gave us embalming, but mummification with it which wasn't for preserving a body to look "natural" for viewing.

 

Anyone know? Do we have any anthropologists on the board?

[LucyStoner]

We didn't do viewings after my FIL or my mother died.  It was about $600 each for the cremations.  Catholics discourage the spreading or keeping of cremains so we also bought plots at the cemetery.  That was fairly pricey but includes the right to bury up to 6 more people if they are cremated.

 

I ordered an urn vault online for my mother after realizing that the cemetery sold us one for $500ish dollars for my FIL. And that was at the diocesan cemetery.  My mother's urn vault was "nicer" than his and I paid $95.  I'm not sure what makes grave vaults comparatively nicer but I swear there was blue metallic spray paint on the one we were sold for my FIL.  I had no idea though before we paid that high price for one for my FIL that such a thing was even needed.  And when they said I needed one, it didn't occur to me that there were much less costly options online.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

My parents got one of those pre-paid funeral plans. It was so nice when my dad died to go in and choose from the options already paid for. In fact, my mother actually got a bit of money refunded to her. We didn't have a viewing. Most of the family was gathered around him as he died so it's not like we hadn't seen the body.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have an urn that used to contain my dh's aunt's ashes. How it came to be empty has something to do with a crazy in-law. Anyway, it sells for $200 on EBay so I'm keeping it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maize]

So, I'm wondering with these family responsibility elder care issues--is it possible to take out long term care insurance not in oneself but on a parent or other relative?

I know in some cases one can take out a life insurance policy on a relative. Maybe a policy that allows a pay-out prior to death in case of terminal illness?

[FaithManor]

My parents got one of those pre-paid funeral plans. It was so nice when my dad died to go in and choose from the options already paid for. In fact, my mother actually got a bit of money refunded to her. We didn't have a viewing. Most of the family was gathered around him as he died so it's not like we hadn't seen the body.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would have been a great plan for my parents had they thought of it sooner. I think Michigan bankruptcy law protects pre-paid funeral plans.

[maize]

I studied embalming in a minor way because my military career field included mortuary services (someone has to be in charge of that in wartime).

 

It left me with zero desire to be embalmed.

[Reefgazer]

$6500 is a good deal compared to NYS.  Dad's funeral cost ~ $12K, $17K if you count the stone my mom wanted.  I tried to talk to mom about cremation and not choosing an expensive stone, but it wasn't happening.  She is of the older generation and wanted the full tilt boogie for a funeral.  That was also an average funeral - we didn't have a lot of bells and whistles.  NYS requires a vault, as well, which added a few thousand to the cost, and the closest "green burial" cemetery was quite a distance out of town and mom wanted dad in the closer family plot so she could visit often (she's there 3-4 times a week, and so am I when I am in town).

 

It might be helpful to talk numbers here since there are many care givers on the board right now who are facing these future decisions when it comes to funeral planning.

 

It varies from state to state, and even region to region within states, so I'll speak only to "Mid-Michigan" in general. The average what is called medium priced traditional burial package is around $6500.00. This would include embalming so there is a viewing, 1 day of viewing, and the next day the funeral. It does not cover things like a funeral dinner. Traditionally many churches offered these for free to members, however that is kind of going the way of the dodo here due to rising costs and shrinking church budgets. Also, one county over, public events like wedding reception dinners, funeral dinners, etc. that are going to feed more than 25 people cannot be potluck, and must be provided by a licensed caterer. That adds a lot of cost if one is having a luncheon and feeding very many people. My mother wants to invite everyone they have ever known - which is a lot of people because he owned a prominent business in the county for 50 years - and wants a full spread funeral dinner. She has no money to pay for it, and we have two kids in college so we said no. After all, dd's wedding was for 75 people so we could afford decent food, albeit not fancy, food.  We estimate that what she wants for the funeral dinner would cost $2000.00 to provide.

 

Direct cremation without a viewing so no casket or embalming, is only $1500.00 on average. Should something happen and our bodies can't be transported to U of MI Medical Center in the allotted time frame, this is what we would hope our kids would choose. We have the money earmarked to take care of that plus more so they can do what they want, but don't see the point of such expense.

 

The medium package above also assumes that one is having a small funeral held inside the funeral chapel. If one has more people attending than what the funeral home can seat for the service, there are further expenses to transporting the body to a church or other location plus staying with the body as Michigan law doesn't allow it to be left out at a church unattended. There are transportation permits that must be filed and the death certificate must be signed by a licensed funeral director in addition to a doctor and an ME. Some funeral directors charge for their signature as a fee independent of other fees so you need to ask ahead.

 

Direct burial or cremation must occur within 48 hours. While state law actually does allow for a family member to transport the body, local ordinances do not always allow this which is why it has traditionally been a funeral director service fee. If you decide to cut costs by doing transportation yourself, check all of the ordinances along the road ways between you  and the funeral home, cemetery, or crematorium.

 

Funeral directors will not tell you this, but in Michigan, they are legally required to accept a third party casket. So if you can find one cheaper some place else, they must let you use it. They cannot prevent you from using a homemade one so long as it is sturdy enough to do the job. There is no state law requiring a vault. However, cemeteries can set whatever rules they see fit about this. A lot of times townships make their rules based on recommendations concerning water contamination and what not. I have yet to hear of anyone who did not have to purchase a vault in my area. We are kind of low here in elevation, and quite wet, so I would imagine this is a public safety issue. 

 

You do not have to purchase a casket per se for cremation by law. However, most crematoriums require a sturdy cardboard or wood box so that their employees do not directly handle the body.

 

It is not illegal to bury someone on the family farm. However, it obviously requires previous approval, and the permits are not easy to get because there has to be a public health evaluation, and a full acre of land designated as a "burial ground" for public knowledge, and disclosed if one later sells the property. We have heard of people applying for these permits, but never of them being approved. I think the biggest issue would be planning far in advance. That is not a process that can take place within the 48 hours allotted to burying a body that hasn't been embalmed.

 

It should be noted that for veterans, if one can extract the actual benefit from the VA something that many have difficulty in achieving, there is a $300.00 burial benefit and up to $749.00 towards the plot. I have not yet ascertained if one can get the $300.00 if one is cremating. It is specifically called a burial benefit from what I've seen. I have not seen the fine print on that.

 

The nitty gritty is that if you don't have the money or wish not to spend it on disposal of your loved one's body, something that no state law requires anyone to do, you can sign the body over to the county coroner. The county will pay for the cremation of the body, and for the ashes to be placed in a common grave, or will release the ashes to you for a fee in some cases. Not all counties do that. 

 

Dh and I, out of necessity since we will have to financially support my mother for the rest of her life, have earmarked no dollars for burial or cremation. If other family members want to pitch in for that, they can. We have said we would pay for the use of a church or other gathering place for a private memorial and luncheon for 75 people. She is very unhappy with us. But we are taking on another very expensive dependent at a time when we have two kids in college and another headed there in a year. So she can spend what little they have left for the big, expensive funeral if she wants. We aren't going to dictate to her what to do with the last $15,000 they have in this world, but we also aren't gong to contribute to such a financially unsound decision either.

 

Anyway, that is what things cost around here, and some of the laws of this state in a nutshell. Michigan is a bad, bad state for funeral costs so some of you may not have so much expense where you are. I do think it is REALLY important to hammer these things out before the decisions actually have to be made. It is a pretty rough time, and GAH, what happened to Unsinkable is just awful! I mean, what a low life funeral director! But, that could happen to any of us even though we aren't that young because at the time emotions are raw and the pressure to make snap decisions is very real.

 

Oh, and avoid the "loans". You know how there are "parent loans" for college which are usually high interest? Well there are funeral loans now and many directors push them. The terms are not good. And of course with a 48 hour window of doing something legal with your loved one's body, the pressure to sign would be great. 

 

[Reefgazer]

Yeah, dad didn't look at all like dad.  I think some people find closure easier if they can see the deceased and reflect on things with that way.  The concept of a wake (now called a "viewing" in most circles) began when determining death was not as precise a science as it is now, and so family/close friends were designated to watch over the body to be sure the person was really and truly dead and didn't "wake".  I guess the tradition has just continued as an extended goodbye. 

It's not done at all in Germany; I never heard of it.
Really, why would I want to look at the waxen embalmed corpse?