Does anyone else see this? Do you think it is cause for concern?

[SparklyUnicorn]

A question came to me a little off topic.....

How do families go underground homeschooling? Do they just not register their children? And then could they go on to college? Seems like if the state has no document of a k-12 education colleges wouldn't admit them.

 

Sorry I just never heard of this! I am new to hs and am not around a hs community.

 

Some states don't require any sort of reporting at all.  When I lived in Connecticut I did not have to tell anyone anything.  But I also wasn't underground.

 

Here in NY, if you get caught usually they don't treat it criminally.  If you submit the paperwork moving forward then usually you are ok.  Things might be hairy with social services for awhile, but it's not exactly breaking the law to not submit the paperwork.  It's a violation of a regulation.   It's against the law to not provide an education for your child, but that needs to be demonstrated beyond just saying you didn't submit paperwork. 

[vonfirmath]

A question came to me a little off topic.....

How do families go underground homeschooling? Do they just not register their children? And then could they go on to college? Seems like if the state has no document of a k-12 education colleges wouldn't admit them.

 

Sorry I just never heard of this! I am new to hs and am not around a hs community.

 

Colleges tend to admit students based on transcripts, letters of recommendation, and SAT/ACT scores. Not whether or not they were ever registered in a k-12 education community.

[MedicMom]

By the way, I live in a high-reg state. It didn't help with educational neglect. Encouraged by HSLDA to report and the bare minimum, parents did, and didn't feel guilty about exaggerating or outright lying on quarterly reports. I know at least one family that was vocal about cheating on standardized testing(doing it untimed, mom sitting with the student and working through the questions) the years it was required. My mom used to get so annoyed with the open cheating that she had us take the Iowa Achievement test at the local Christian school so no one could accuse us of it.(and my sisters and I always scored very very high, like in the 90s percentiles)

[SparklyUnicorn]

By the way, I live in a high-reg state. It didn't help with educational neglect. Encouraged by HSLDA to report and the bare minimum, parents did, and didn't feel guilty about exaggerating or outright lying on quarterly reports. I know at least one family that was vocal about cheating on standardized testing(doing it untimed, mom sitting with the student and working through the questions) the years it was required. My mom used to get so annoyed with the open cheating that she had us take the Iowa Achievement test at the local Christian school so no one could accuse us of it.(and my sisters and I always scored very very high, like in the 90s percentiles)

 

Met one person who said this about the testing.  Don't know why anyone would advertise that fact.  Geesh

 

But yeah it's not that hard to cheat on the regs (which is why for the most part I think they are pointless).   They basically ensure that rule/law abiding people have more hoops to jump through.  People who don't care about rules and regs have no qualms about just not following them.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't want to call anybody out by quoting, but that sentiment, "I was accomplishing so much more than public schools could even dream..."

 

on one hand, I know what you mean, because that's what I say (in some areas), too.

 

On the other hand, I'm still waiting to meet the first non-schooler who does NOT say that, even if her kids are getting their entire education from Minecraft.

 

It's become a hollow claim, as far as I'm concerned.

[Guest]

I'm not sure that the influx that is being talked about here is the same population of people that will have poorly performing kids in school or that will go underground rather than comply with regulation.  These aren't people homeschooling on principle or because they want to spend more time with their kids, or even because they want to give a much higher end education. 

 

This made me think about an article someone  posted on another thread a while back. It was on a superintendents association website, and the basic gist was that Gen X parents are the most likely to date to be silent, not complain, but then take their kids and walk out of the school- to private school or homeschool- much to the shock and chagrin of the school administration. They never saw it coming.  So on that front, a decent amount of these people are probably pulling their kids because they are PISSED and feel like it's their only option. 

 

I will honestly say that was a lot of what motivated me! I mean, I did my research on homeschooling for months before, but it was a complete and utter dissatisfaction with the school and public school as a whole that drove me to walk. It wasn't on principle per say- it might be that way now though, but I didn't complain or anything prior to leaving school because it would've done no good. I also felt like an outsider amongst the parents to think something was wrong- the basically thought I had joined a cult to be dissatisfied with such a wonderful district.

 

Anyway. So I bet it's a wildly mixed bag of why and where the influx is coming from. But that article I believe called it the Stealth Bomber parents of Gen X, rather than Helicopter parents of the boomer generation. I wish I could find it to post again. Maybe someone else will remember it! It's an interesting off shoot to this conversation. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by texasmom33

[Slartibartfast]

Met one person who said this about the testing.  Don't know why anyone would advertise that fact.  Geesh

 

But yeah it's not that hard to cheat on the regs (which is why for the most part I think they are pointless).   They basically ensure that rule/law abiding people have more hoops to jump through.  People who don't care about rules and regs have no qualms about just not following them.

 

 

I have never seen standardized tests like that, the kids are required to show up at designated places (usually libraries) and the tests are proctored by teachers with the online schools.

[Slartibartfast]

This made me think about an article someone (Creekland maybe?) posted on another thread a while back. It was on a superintendents association website, and the basic gist was that Gen X parents are the most likely to date to be silent, not complain, but then take their kids and walk out of the school- to private school or homeschool- much to the shock and chagrin of the school administration. They never saw it coming.  So on that front, a decent amount of these people are probably pulling their kids because they are PISSED and feel like it's their only option. 

 

I will honestly say that was a lot of what motivated me! I mean, I did my research on homeschooling for months before, but it was a complete and utter dissatisfaction with the school and public school as a whole that drove me to walk. It wasn't on principle per say- it might be that way now though, but I didn't complain or anything prior to leaving school because it would've done no good. I also felt like an outsider amongst the parents to think something was wrong- the basically thought I had joined a cult to be dissatisfied with such a wonderful district.

 

Anyway. So I bet it's a wildly mixed bag of why and where the influx is coming from. But that article I believe called it the Stealth Bomber parents of Gen X, rather than Helicopter parents of the boomer generation. I wish I could find it to post again. Maybe someone else will remember it! It's an interesting off shoot to this conversation. 

 

 

I posted the article in another thread but someone else may have as well

 

http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=11122

[poppy]

It's a lot easier, it's all over, it sounds so EASY, if you ask for free no-parent curriciulums you will get lots of suggestions. Is it good for homeschooling? Heck no.  I feel sorry for some of those kids.

I hear all the time "ANY school at home is better than public school" and I absolutely do not agree with that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I have never seen standardized tests like that, the kids are required to show up at designated places (usually libraries) and the tests are proctored by teachers with the online schools.

 

Here many districts allow parents to administer them themselves.  I do.  And one of the biggest reasons I do is because my district offers one test date to me in July.  Who the hell wants to test in July?  My kids always take a trip at that time and I think it would stink to tell them they couldn't.  Another reason is they make the kids take the entire test in one sitting.  They don't administer tests in one sitting to their own students.  That's not fair.

[Slartibartfast]

Here many districts allow parents to administer them themselves.  I do.  And one of the biggest reasons I do is because my district offers one test date to me in July.  Who the hell wants to test in July?  My kids always take a trip at that time and I think it would stink to tell them they couldn't.  Another reason is they make the kids take the entire test in one sitting.  They don't administer tests in one sitting to their own students.  That's not fair.

 

 

That's crazy.

 

Here the tests are proctored and the kids take the tests over 2-3 days.

[Guest]

A question came to me a little off topic.....

How do families go underground homeschooling? Do they just not register their children? And then could they go on to college? Seems like if the state has no document of a k-12 education colleges wouldn't admit them.

 

Sorry I just never heard of this! I am new to hs and am not around a hs community.

 

I live in a zero reg state for all intents and purposes, so here I don't think there IS an underground. However, I have seen other posters, especially in Australia who mention this as something that is done often. They just don't register, so they're basically underground. It seems like the more hoops and regs, the more tempting it is. I'm not sure about college etc. in that case as it's so different here, but as far as the U.S., if you can pass the entrance test, ANYONE can go to a community college and transfer from there.

 

This isn't underground, but there are also the parents who just, don't seem to care. They don't register their kids. They don't keep records, they don't teach- some of these kids don't even have birth certificates. We had someone on the High School board this year dealing with overcoming this as a student who's parents had done nothing and he was trying to move on himself. So it happens- there is no doubt. But I think that's muddling together a whole different issue beyond simply homeschooling. That's a parenting thing that far exceeds just school. 

[Guest]

I posted the article in another thread but someone else may have as well

 

http://www.aasa.org/SchoolAdministratorArticle.aspx?id=11122

 

Yes! Thank you!! I couldn't remember who it was, but I totally remembered the article! :) 

[SparklyUnicorn]

That's crazy.

 

Here the tests are proctored and the kids take the tests over 2-3 days.

 

That seems fine to me.  But nope, I think a test on one day for hours is completely unfair.  That offering is also only for students in 4th through 8th.  So for high school I guess you can ask to do the Regents or test yourself.  I am not opting to do the Regents because then I'd have to teach to the specifics of the test.  If I do that I might as well send my kid to school.

[Janeway]

I'm in an easy to homeschool state.

 

On a couple of statewide lists, I'm seeing a large influx of folks who have just pulled their kids out of public school and now want to homeschool them. But, some plan to continue to work outside the home and just stick the children in front of some inexpensive online program. Or they will stay home with them, but again, they just want recommendations for some inexpensive online program. Not books or curriculum - they just want online or computer based programs.

 

And then I see requests for help from parents who has a 13 yo who still can't read or do multiplication.

 

And requests from parents of 16 yo who haven't done any serious schooling, and hey, look, graduation is coming, what can I do to catch my child up so they can graduate.

 

I've been homeschooling for 14 years now. When I started, we had yahoogroups and bulletin boards for communication. Now we have forums, Big Tent, FB, and more for communication.

 

So, is this influx that I see - is that cause for concern - people who really haven't researched homeschooling or are dedicated to it switching to homeschooling? Some have legitimate reasons (school is failing their child, bullying, etc), but others just seem to be pulling their children because they are upset with the school (not treating little Johnny right, too much work, etc). Or has it always been there and we are only seeing it how because there is more communication?

 

Will all these people approach the education of their children like it is a job/commitment to do the best by them?

 

I'm afraid not everyone will step up and do a good job educating their children. And that makes me sad for the kids because they deserve better. And if they stick these children into public school, it is going to give homeschooling a bad rap.

 

And it makes me sad for the future of homeschooling. Because I've seen a variety of homeschoolers - some are dedicated and do a good job, some are doing a decent job, some seem to be running some sort of social experiment, and some aren't doing much at all. And although I think we should have the freedom to educate our children as we see fit, I'm wonder about the practical hard reality of that.

Our favorite home school group fell apart because so many people were new to homeschooling because they didn't want their perfect royal children to have to follow rules. The parents are offended that their precious little perfect child got in trouble at school. These are not people we want anything to do with.

[TranquilMind]

My issue is that these students are underprepared not just for university, but for CC. Students who are technically high school graduates and place into arithmetic or pre-algebra at a CC have an incredibly low rate of success both at continuing to the next year and at graduating in general, and a big reason is because they are so far behind that they are looking at semesters of remediation before proceeding to collegiate classes and then running out of financial aid eligibility before graduation. This is a subject of nationwide discussion among university educators. 

 

Furthermore, CC remedial classes used to be more basic, but now tend to assume that a student has seen algebra and geometry, but just not mastered it. They aren't well suited for an initial exposure as they move much too rapidly for that. Some bright students can make the leap, but most can't. 

 

ETA: Btw, the only real modification that would stop this would be refusing to accept their fabricated transcripts at face value. And yes, they are fabricated. They are getting admitted because they have transcripts that say that they passed two years of algebra and one of geometry with certain grades, but multiple students have told me in confidentiality that they never studied those and their parent just downloaded a transcript. So we could require extra documentation from homeschool students that isn't required from general admission students, but that tends to raise hackles as well and doesn't address the larger issue with the spreading myth of "anything is better than PS"

Aren't these kids taking the PSAT and the SAT, ACT Tests?  Because those should demonstrate significant lacks before they get to college. 

 

[MedicMom]

Aren't these kids taking the PSAT and the SAT, ACT Tests? Because those should demonstrate significant lacks before they get to college.

 

A lot of CCs don't require them, and colleges may not once you have an associates degree. So they may not be taking them.

[regentrude]

A question came to me a little off topic.....

How do families go underground homeschooling? Do they just not register their children? And then could they go on to college? Seems like if the state has no document of a k-12 education colleges wouldn't admit them.

 

There is nothing "underground" about homeschooling in our state. You don't register for anything. There are no annual tests. There are no requirements to show any documentation to authorities. There is just the requirement to keep records, but nobody ever asks about them.

 

And yes, then the kids go to college. They take the ACT or SAT, the parents send a transcript issued by the parents, kids get admitted if they do well. and go. My homeschooled DD attends the no. 3 ranked school in the nation. 

And they do have documents about their high school education, if the parents actually homeschool. The parents document the schooling.

 

ETA: And families can avoid the standardized testing if they send their kids to Community College.

Edited January 16, 2017 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Aren't these kids taking the PSAT and the SAT, ACT Tests?  Because those should demonstrate significant lacks before they get to college. 

 

 

To be fair lots of kids take these tests and don't do well on them and then go on to do well in college.  They aren't the best predictors for college success.

 

I know because I was one of those people!  I didn't do that great on the SAT and I graduated with honors from a uni.  And I was never homeschooled.

 

Also, to be fair there are plenty of struggling students in CCs who were also never homeschooled.

 

It's only one piece of it ya know? 

[Guest]

To be fair lots of kids take these tests and don't do well on them and then go on to do well in college.  They aren't the best predictors for college success.

 

I know because I was one of those people!  I didn't do that great on the SAT and I graduated with honors from a uni.  And I was never homeschooled.

 

Also, to be fair there are plenty of struggling students in CCs who were also never homeschooled.

 

It's only one piece of it ya know? 

 

ME TOO!!! :) I don't do well on standardized test and I have no idea why. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

A lot of CCs don't require them, and colleges may not once you have an associates degree. So they may not be taking them.

 

Which is fine.  If you can manage an associates degree you probably didn't do nothing in your homeschool. 

[poppy]

Which is fine.  If you can manage an associates degree you probably didn't do nothing in your homeschool. 

 

But the problem is the kids who are want that degree, but can't even pass the remedial versions of classes due to being academically unprepared. 

[TranquilMind]

I think it is not more of a cause for concern than schools graduating barely literate students today. 

 

A great education happens because parents care and won't give up (look at Ben Carson's mom).  Not necessarily because of the setting. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by TranquilMind

[SparklyUnicorn]

But the problem is the kids who are want that degree, but can't even pass the remedial versions of classes due to being academically unprepared. 

 

Yeah I agree that is not right at all. 

 

Not disagreeing.  I just think it's unfair to draw conclusions based on stuff like the SAT test.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think it is not more of a cause for concern than schools graduating barely literate students today. 

 

A great education happens because parents care and won't give up (look at Ben Carson's mom).  Not necessarily because of the setting. 

 

Yep.  What I find ironic is that in NY the Q & A section of the homeschool regs asks if the school can be blamed or held responsible for poor student outcomes.  Of course not.  But can I hold them responsible if I send them to their schools?  Of course not.

[Jean in Newcastle]

A lot of those "homeschool" online programs are actually still public school programs.  I'm not excluding anyone from calling themselves a homeschooler in spirit if they use them, but LEGALLY, they are public school students and LEGALLY, the public schools are the ones responsible for the quality of the educations.  Obviously there are some paid online programs that are not administered by the public school system.  And obviously those can be abused as well.

[poppy]

I think it is not more of a cause for concern than schools graduating barely literate students today.

 

A great education happens because parents care and won't give up (look at Ben Carson's mom). Not necessarily because of the setting.

When my daughter fell behind in reading in public school, her teacher advised me to have her assessed for learning disabilities . I did and she is , in fact, dyslexic.

 

Other people with dyslexic children have had to fight for accommodations . The law is largely parents side in terms of federal protections for students with disabilities . If you request an assessment , you get one. If you disagree with an assessment result, you can hire an advocate.

 

Homeschool children with learning disabilities are - IMO - in a great position to learn with an attentive and dedicated parent. But what happens to the kids of 'I want a free , completely online program '? Do they fall through the cracks? So they get in trouble for not doing their work well? I don't know.

 

All of this is to say , attentive parents are key.... but an inattentive parent is maybe worse off in a homeschool context. No teacher there to raise the red flag that this kid needs specialized help.

[Arcadia]

I know people who homeschool for religious reasons. Some would used the online public charter and some would use the public charter that pays for classes. Some would opt for Classical Conversations while some would go to a Christian school once a week full day for their homeschool program.

 

I know some academic homeschoolers with asynchronous kids like mine. I know someone who used the online public charter because of unchecked bullying at school despite police reports.

 

The compulsory vaccination law in California had people saying they are going to pull their kids out of school. However there was no follow up new article on the parents who said they were going to pull out their kids.

 

We just file a private school affidavit every year to homeschool. I don't even need to put down my kids names or age.

 

It was on a superintendents association website, and the basic gist was that Gen X parents are the most likely to date to be silent, not complain, but then take their kids and walk out of the school- to private school or homeschool- much to the shock and chagrin of the school administration. They never saw it coming. So on that front, a decent amount of these people are probably pulling their kids because they are PISSED and feel like it's their only option.

My district's school admin actually encourage people to opt for private schools. They blatantly tell us not to come. We have a severe overcrowding problem and is still relying on more portables and re-opening campuses that were closed. There is a new k-12 school campus but building work has not started yet.

[Meriwether]

I have only known one family IRL that I have known for sure isn't taking care of their business. I am sad for those kids. One kid from another family that I thought wasn't learning is all grown up and doing well in college now. My sister, due to extenuating circumstances that I don't care to list, has enrolled my niece in an online program for the last two years. My sister doesn't work outside the home, but my niece has to work at the church to have internet access. She is getting a great education, actually. I do think that isn't always the case. Maybe not even often the case.

[Meriwether]

I'm neither strongly for nor strongly against regulations. I'm mostly worried about whether or not I'm doing well by my own kids.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Meriwether

[MistyMountain]

I recently went to a homeschooling parent orientation for a homeschooling oversight group. I was really surprised by how many did not want to directly teach their kids and were just latching onto all the online stuff talked about not even knowing anything about these programs. Most said they did not want to do the teaching.

 

One parent it made sense because it was an older kid in high school who had a specific career goal who was motivated and advanced and the kid was the one who wanted to. The mom who was a little worried about handling higher level math.

Edited January 16, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Guest]

I think it is not more of a cause for concern than schools graduating barely literate students today.

 

A great education happens because parents care and won't give up (look at Ben Carson's mom). Not necessarily because of the setting.

Yes, but have you read Ben Carson's story? You could say he was "Afterschooled" at the library. His mother required him to go to the library, choose two books a week, read and then prepare a report for those books. This also kept him off the street.

 

Presumably, he already had a decent brain in his head.

 

(I'm not disagreeeing with you, BTW; I'm saying he began to excel because his mother "made" him do academic things and "made" him quit doing what he preferred: playing flip the cap in the street or whatever it was. She set high standards for what he and hos brother would pursue while she was at work. It paid off.)

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

Presumably, he already had a decent brain in his head.

 

 

Yeah I don't take much credit or think I've done anything magical.  I've tried my best, but my best isn't magical. 

 

I wish I had that kind of control.  There is doing nothing, but then most of us are probably somewhere in the middle.  And some of us middle clucks probably come off looking amazing or terrible.  Yet we haven't done anything terrific or terrible. 

[Guest]

I recently went to a homeschooling parent orientation for a homeschooling oversight group. I was really surprised by how many did not want to directly teach their kids and were just latching onto all the online stuff talked about not even knowing anything about these programs. Most said they did not want to do the teaching.

 

One parent it made sense because it was an older kid in high school who had a specific career goal who was motivated and advanced and the kid was the one who wanted to. The mom who was a little worried about handling higher level math.

 

I guess that makes sense though, that it's cropping up more now. 15 years ago, they would've been shut out of the homeschooling world because lack of the internet resources would've made it a non-starter. But now, it's at the tip of everyone's fingers and I do think it's become somewhat trendy.

 

I also think too much out there makes homeschooling sound far easier than it is. I used to hate those K12 ads on TV for that reason. It gave the whole "having your kid plugged in online to our course 8 hours a day" is exactly the same as having your kid in a classroom at school, and no work for you!  

 

I am definitely not against outsourcing in the least, but I think there is a massive difference between involved outsourcing, and "someone else deal with this, I need to go to work," type outsourcing. (not saying you can't homeschool and work.) But like your post- they don't even want to take the time into learning about the program. It's more like, "Here's my child, please teach them, I'll be over there," in which case I DO wonder WHY they left the public school system in the first place. It's not even on the same planet as those of us who work with our kids to find out what they want to do, and the best way to get there, and then research the classes, pay the money, and help the kid manage the course, you know? It's more like your latter case, I can see the worry- we all worry. But I don't want my outsourcing which is carefully thought out, researched to death, and then monitored to ever be equated with someone who picks K12 and never takes a second look or has zero clue what their kid is studying! I think we need better defined terminology on the outsourcing front. Outsourcing is not outsourcing is not outsourcing! :) 

[G5052]

I recently went to a homeschooling parent orientation for a homeschooling oversight group. I was really surprised by how many did not want to directly teach their kids and were just latching onto all the online stuff talked about not even knowing anything about these programs. Most said they did not want to do the teaching.

 

One parent it made sense because it was an older kid in high school who had a specific career goal who was motivated and advanced and the kid was the one who wanted to. The mom who was a little worried about handling higher level math.

 

For us, online got us through high school subjects where I needed the help. Because of a bartering arrangement for some of the courses, I was able to do that more reasonably than some. I've also been able to work full-time through most of their high school years, although I'm very blessed that I work mostly from home. I eat three meals a day with them and can be monitoring what they're doing much more than if I had an "away" job. 

 

Most of our friends who were nervous about high school or had to go to work chose to send them to public or private school. 

 

For us, online allowed us to keep them at home and craft a custom transcript that wouldn't be available otherwise.

 

At least for me, online prior to that wasn't going to fulfill my goals.

[SparklyUnicorn]

They show some of those K12 commercials here (even though it's not free here).  They make it seems like you don't have to do much of anything.  I don't think all parents are pulling that idea out of their rear.  It's touted as being like a school, but at home. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[Guest]

Yes, but have you read Ben Carson's story? You could say he was "Afterschooled" at the library. His mother required him to go to the library, choose two books a week, read and then prepare a report for those books. This also kept him off the street.

 

Presumably, he already had a decent brain in his head.

 

(I'm not disagreeeing with you, BTW; I'm saying he began to excel because his mother "made" him do academic things and "made" him quit doing what he preferred: playing flip the cap in the street or whatever it was. She set high standards for what he and hos brother would pursue while she was at work. It paid off.)

Agreed. 

 

But,  in his case, by his own admission things could have gone very differently for him DESPITE his mother's best intentions. She couldn't read, she wasn't home- yeah she made him read and write, but something more went on there than that to get him where he was. I think why his story is so popular is that he isn't a typical outcome of a similar situation. I admire the outcome, but I don't think there's a formula there that is "if everyone just did this we wouldn't have kids with bad outcomes". I think his is more of a "by the Grace of God he got out of a really dangerous place," as much as anything else. 

 

I'm not saying his Mom didn't help, but I'm saying besides his Mom, a lot of other things had to fall into place. It wasn't just writing book reports after school.  It's like Quill is saying, there was some intellect that is clearly above average amongst other things going on. Makes for a great story, but I seriously doubt it's the whole story. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by texasmom33

[SparklyUnicorn]

The more hoops, the more people go off grid. Mod-high regulation state in different country. 

 

Offering access to resources is what gets people to register and jump through a few hoops - particularly the 'sight a child, sight their learning environment' hoop. 

 

Not going to argue this one again; the US is different. Maybe high reg will be fine for y'all. 

 

And you need high reg if you are going to insist on more than the minimum standard. Low reg won't get you there. 

 

I'd move state before I'd submit to testing as part of my registration; not because I don't school my kids, but because I have an ideological objection. Luckily schooled kids can not take the standardized testing on offer - their parent just keeps them home that day - so my state will have a hard time forcing homeschoolers to do something schoolers aren't forced to. 

 

Oh believe me I tried to find a loophole with the testing because I object to it as well.  Only thing I can do is go "off grid". 

 

I decided not to, but yeah it was tempting. 

 

Meanwhile prior to moving here I had no requirements.  I find this radical difference in regs quite annoying. 

[Guest]

Yeah I don't take much credit or think I've done anything magical. I've tried my best, but my best isn't magical.

 

I wish I had that kind of control. There is doing nothing, but then most of us are probably somewhere in the middle. And some of us middle clucks probably come off looking amazing or terrible. Yet we haven't done anything terrific or terrible.

Very true. Even between siblings, there can be a big difference with LDs or other personality factors.

 

Originally, I thought I would be strongly in the unschool direction (except I never unschooled Math, thank God), because my firstborn has the brain power and personality of an autodidact. I never had to make her read anything. She just zoomed along. But it was different with #2; I could see he wasn't going to be the same way. He needed (still needs) a lot of direct, explicit, concrete explanation to do well academically. This is why I don't like advice that tells parents to "just trust the child to learn what he 'needs' to know" -- umm, no. Better advice is to continuously ask yourself, "Is this working? Is this a good approach for this kid? Is he making progress?" Because I'd rather realize the kid needs something more explicit when he's in 5th grade, not 10th. It's freakin hard to fix the problem if it goes on that long.

[Rosie_0801]

The homeschool laws in our state are coming up for review. Currently we have the easiest regulations in the country, but we won't if the proposed laws go through. As usual, they are being written by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

So I have been thinking about what would actually be of benefit.

 

As someone who has been dragged through the court system for almost two years, with educational neglect as an excuse, it would have saved my family a whole lot of time, money, stress and health if our laws mandated me cashing a voucher to an educational psychologist each year.

 

Can anyone see drawbacks to that?

[TranquilMind]

Yes, but have you read Ben Carson's story? You could say he was "Afterschooled" at the library. His mother required him to go to the library, choose two books a week, read and then prepare a report for those books. This also kept him off the street.

 

Presumably, he already had a decent brain in his head.

 

(I'm not disagreeeing with you, BTW; I'm saying he began to excel because his mother "made" him do academic things and "made" him quit doing what he preferred: playing flip the cap in the street or whatever it was. She set high standards for what he and hos brother would pursue while she was at work. It paid off.)

 

Yes, I'm well aware of his story. There is a movie too. 

Yes, his mother forced him and his brother to turn off the TV and do book reports.    She had high standards and she demanded they meet them. 

Everyone may not have his natural academic ability but everyone could do better with a mom like that. 

 

[MistyMountain]

This made me think about an article someone posted on another thread a while back. It was on a superintendents association website, and the basic gist was that Gen X parents are the most likely to date to be silent, not complain, but then take their kids and walk out of the school- to private school or homeschool- much to the shock and chagrin of the school administration. They never saw it coming. So on that front, a decent amount of these people are probably pulling their kids because they are PISSED and feel like it's their only option.

 

I will honestly say that was a lot of what motivated me! I mean, I did my research on homeschooling for months before, but it was a complete and utter dissatisfaction with the school and public school as a whole that drove me to walk. It wasn't on principle per say- it might be that way now though, but I didn't complain or anything prior to leaving school because it would've done no good. I also felt like an outsider amongst the parents to think something was wrong- the basically thought I had joined a cult to be dissatisfied with such a wonderful district.

 

Anyway. So I bet it's a wildly mixed bag of why and where the influx is coming from. But that article I believe called it the Stealth Bomber parents of Gen X, rather than Helicopter parents of the boomer generation. I wish I could find it to post again. Maybe someone else will remember it! It's an interesting off shoot to this conversation.

Yea that article made me a little self conscious because some of it was very true but they said that Gen X parents were only concerned about their own kids unlike Boomers who were community minded. Also the way the article talked about how to advertise to Gen X parents and I felt that was a little off.

 

I totally let little things go but not when something comes up that is a bigger issue just like it says. I also "suddenly" pulled a kid from school with no warning. It just looks like that from their end though. When issues came up and the school could not do anything to make it work I got to researching for the next few months and stopped bothering them. I do care that other kids fall through the cracks very much but I feel more powerless there.

Edited January 16, 2017 by MistyMountain

[kiana]

The homeschool laws in our state are coming up for review. Currently we have the easiest regulations in the country, but we won't if the proposed laws go through. As usual, they are being written by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

So I have been thinking about what would actually be of benefit.

 

As someone who has been dragged through the court system for almost two years, with educational neglect as an excuse, it would have saved my family a whole lot of time, money, stress and health if our laws mandated me cashing a voucher to an educational psychologist each year.

 

Can anyone see drawbacks to that?

 

Are there enough ed psychs to do the job?

 

I certainly think that a voucher to an ed psych could be one option of demonstrating that your kids are doing just fine, but mandating it may overwhelm the current numbers.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yep. Plenty of ed psychs have zero understanding of homeschooling. It can be tricky to find one who does. 

 

And I assume they tend to support institution based schooling.  What experience would they have with anything else? 

[fairfarmhand]

A lot of those "homeschool" online programs are actually still public school programs.  I'm not excluding anyone from calling themselves a homeschooler in spirit if they use them, but LEGALLY, they are public school students and LEGALLY, the public schools are the ones responsible for the quality of the educations.  Obviously there are some paid online programs that are not administered by the public school system.  And obviously those can be abused as well.

 

Right. Here's what the supervisor of my dd's online program said.

 

"If you fall too far behind on your schooling schedule, you will have to come up here and sit in my office. And I will say: What're you doing now? How 'bout now? What are you doing now? Get back to work."

 

She takes keeping her kids on task and on schedule for graduation very seriously. That's her job. And that's the way it ought to be.

[Rosie_0801]

Yep. Plenty of ed psychs have zero understanding of homeschooling. It can be tricky to find one who does. 

 

In my limited but not completely zero experience, it doesn't matter whether they have any understanding of homeschooling because their job is to administer and tally up standardised tests on English and Maths concepts.

[LMD]

The homeschool laws in our state are coming up for review. Currently we have the easiest regulations in the country, but we won't if the proposed laws go through. As usual, they are being written by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

So I have been thinking about what would actually be of benefit.

 

As someone who has been dragged through the court system for almost two years, with educational neglect as an excuse, it would have saved my family a whole lot of time, money, stress and health if our laws mandated me cashing a voucher to an educational psychologist each year.

 

Can anyone see drawbacks to that?

Rosie, I love ya, but I would go underground before I submitted to that.

Ed psychs, on the department's payroll? Is it mandatory for schooled kids?

I am really so sorry for the crap you're being dragged through.

 

I think educational neglect should be dealt with like other neglect and abuse. Reported and investigated. Not preemptively screened - unless they can provide evidence that it is more widespread in this population.

 

In classical education language - it's about putting things in their right order. A bureaucrat does not belong in between parent and child. Their wanting what's best for my child doesn't override my wanting what's best for my own child, and unless there is legally defined abuse/neglect happening, then they can butt out.

 

All of these sad stories are awful. But how do these laws help? Are there actually any evidence based laws out there? Mostly they're based on stereotypes. That's what I object to, in a nutshell.

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie, I love ya, but I would go underground before I submitted to that.

Ed psychs, on the department's payroll? Is it mandatory for schooled kids?

I am really so sorry for the crap you're being dragged through.

 

I think educational neglect should be dealt with like other neglect and abuse. Reported and investigated. Not preemptively screened - unless they can provide evidence that it is more widespread in this population.

 

In classical education language - it's about putting things in their right order. A bureaucrat does not belong in between parent and child. Their wanting what's best for my child doesn't override my wanting what's best for my own child, and unless there is legally defined abuse/neglect happening, then they can butt out.

 

All of these sad stories are awful. But how do these laws help? Are there actually any evidence based laws out there? Mostly they're based on stereotypes. That's what I object to, in a nutshell.

 

Eh! I didn't say ed psychs on the government payroll! I was envisioning something administered through Medicare.

 

I think it is inevitable they are going to make more restrictive laws, allegedly to prevent abuse. So I'm trying to think of ways they could do that which would actually have some benefits to us. It is a benefit to have learning disabilities diagnosed. Most don't because it is too damned expensive. Assuming we are not neglecting our kids, the testing would serve as proof in our favour. 

 

There's no way to make laws that keep the government entirely out of our biz while at the same time allowing them the info they need to catch abusers. Their proposed laws won't solve the problems they allegedly want to solve and will cause a whole lot more they haven't thought about, so I'm trying to think outside their box.

[Rosie_0801]

Opening the door to requiring standardized testing is not something I want. I can see it might have utility, but we wouldn't be cashing in those vouchers. 

 

It's not NAPLAN style testing. That's just b.s. 

 

 

So, as a New South Welshwoman, you'd rather go through all of what you have to, teaching space because it is grade 3, home visits (what are the qualifications to be one of them, anyway?) etc, rather than have an IQ test done when you begin and the usual tests that are run by speech therapists and whatnot each year?

 

I wasn't expecting that. :)

 

I thought educational psychologist testing would be considered more evidence based than the opinions of a home visitor.

[LMD]

As to the op, yes, I do think it's a problem. I do think that some parents want the easy option and anyone who sells homeschooling as the easy option is doing everyone a disservice.

I especially agree with your language about owning the decision. It's why I only give basic help to newbies (generally), it won't give them confidence of their own, they're just trying to lean on mine.