Flip or Flop divorce

[Scarlett]

Christina and Tarak I think are their names. Divorcing......two young children....the baby is only a year old. They were never my favorite couple on Hgtv but I still hate to see them divorce.

 

Now if Chip and Joanna split up I will REALLY be sad. :)

[Annie G]

There's probably a lot of stress involved with a successful show.  Dh and I said the same thing about Chip and Joanna- they are getting into so many things and the pressure and stuff must be incredible.  We'll be sad if they split!

 

I kind of think the same thing about Pioneer Woman. With the kids growing up she's into just everything...mercantile, Walmart line, new magazine, cooking show...it's easy to let relationships slide when things get busy.  I mean, it's hard enough in my own life to have a super busy season so I can't imagine how these other folks do it.  (I'm sure they have help!)

[Heatherwith4]

They've had a lot of stress in their lives in the last few years. I hope they can work it out.

[Scarlett]

There's probably a lot of stress involved with a successful show. Dh and I said the same thing about Chip and Joanna- they are getting into so many things and the pressure and stuff must be incredible. We'll be sad if they split!

 

I kind of think the same thing about Pioneer Woman. With the kids growing up she's into just everything...mercantile, Walmart line, new magazine, cooking show...it's easy to let relationships slide when things get busy. I mean, it's hard enough in my own life to have a super busy season so I can't imagine how these other folks do it. (I'm sure they have help!)

Yes I imagine there is a lot of stress for PW too. I think it must be very difficult to say no to more things once you get a taste of success. Easy to forget what is most important. In some ways having to struggle to pay the bills keeps you focused on family.

[TranquilMind]

Christina and Tarak I think are their names. Divorcing......two young children....the baby is only a year old. They were never my favorite couple on Hgtv but I still hate to see them divorce.

 

Now if Chip and Joanna split up I will REALLY be sad. :)

They have such beautiful children.  How can anyone do that to children?  I've seen it but I can't put myself in that place.  I can't imagine saying to that beautiful little six year old face (the other is a baby), "Well, mom and I can't get along, so I'm moving out. See ya"

 

Makes me angry for the kids.  They have reported that they are dating other people, and they aren't even divorced.  I hope not. 

[Scarlett]

They have such beautiful children. How can anyone do that to children? I've seen it but I can't put myself in that place. I can't imagine saying to that beautiful little six year old face (the other is a baby), "Well, mom and I can't get along, so I'm moving out. See ya"

 

Makes me angry for the kids. They have reported that they are dating other people, and they aren't even divorced. I hope not.

 

I know we can't know everything from a reality show, but they both always seemed a little shallow. She seems pretty high maintenance. There was some sort of incident with a gun back in May and a contractor that she is now dating re at the house.

 

Chip and Joanna seem a little more grounded....she just seems to love his goofy self. LOL....

[TranquilMind]

I know we can't know everything from a reality show, but they both always seemed a little shallow. She seems pretty high maintenance. There was some sort of incident with a gun back in May and a contractor that she is now dating re at the house.

 

Chip and Joanna seem a little more grounded....she just seems to love his goofy self. LOL....

 

Yeah, Chip and Joanna will make it. 

 

I read that about the incident.  Sad. 

 

[mellifera33]

It's too bad, but I'm not surprised. She was always giving him that extreme side-eye look. 

 

But I think that most of the couples who are...contestants?--I don't know what to call the people who don't host, but are featured on house hunters, love it or list it, or other shows--are kind of mean to each other. Do most couples snipe at each other like that? Dh and I joke with each other about our idiosyncrasies--he can't find things, I leave half-full cups of water all over the house--but we're not nasty about it. 

[Scarlett]

It's too bad, but I'm not surprised. She was always giving him that extreme side-eye look.

 

But I think that most of the couples who are...contestants?--I don't know what to call the people who don't host, but are featured on house hunters, love it or list it, or other shows--are kind of mean to each other. Do most couples snipe at each other like that? Dh and I joke with each other about our idiosyncrasies--he can't find things, I leave half-full cups of water all over the house--but we're not nasty about it.

Ha I just came on to say that I often wonder about the couples on house hunters.....I would love to know who makes it and who doesn't based upon how they act in that show. They aren't all nasty to each other.....I remember one couple who was downsizing and they seemed kind to each other...and then they had a follow up show a few years later and they were still going strong.

 

But yes Christina always acted like her husband was an idiot.

[elegantlion]

Divorce is not a kind thing, but there are obviously times where it is best for all, and that includes children. " How can anyone do that to children?" is a question that only the parents need to answer at this moment. It is none of your or our business. 

 

:iagree: How can anyone do that to children? Because to be a good parent, you should strive to be the best you possible. Sometimes living with another person, even the one you promised to love forever, can be seriously detrimental to that "best you." Sometime BECAUSE of the children, divorce IS the best case scenario. Part of modeling good relationship skills with your children is knowing when to break off one. 

[maize]

It's too bad, but I'm not surprised. She was always giving him that extreme side-eye look. 

 

But I think that most of the couples who are...contestants?--I don't know what to call the people who don't host, but are featured on house hunters, love it or list it, or other shows--are kind of mean to each other. Do most couples snipe at each other like that? Dh and I joke with each other about our idiosyncrasies--he can't find things, I leave half-full cups of water all over the house--but we're not nasty about it. 

 

I think the producers encourage this sort of behavior because it adds an element of tension to the show.

[TranquilMind]

Divorce is not a kind thing, but there are obviously times where it is best for all, and that includes children. " How can anyone do that to children?" is a question that only the parents need to answer at this moment. It is none of your or our business. The television viewers know squat about this couple's lives, what their troubles are, what she thinks about him. Nothing. Putting words in their mouths, as you did above, is really wrong, unless you actually heard them say that to their child. I realize you could never say that to a child, but you are projecting an untruth to them by stating such a ridiculous thing.

At this point it is merely gossip, never a healthy thing.

 

I certainly may ask the rhetorical question of "how can anyone do that to children" because I have seen and experienced the detrimental effects.   I'm discussing the principle of the thing, not the specifics with this couple, because no one else knows. 

 

However, it is true that people treat marriage - a vow before God - too lightly these days.  

 

If you are married and dating other people, that's wrong.  I don't care who you are.  

 

 

[TranquilMind]

:iagree: How can anyone do that to children? Because to be a good parent, you should strive to be the best you possible. Sometimes living with another person, even the one you promised to love forever, can be seriously detrimental to that "best you." Sometime BECAUSE of the children, divorce IS the best case scenario. Part of modeling good relationship skills with your children is knowing when to break off one. 

 

Eh, not buying the "have to divorce to be the "best you possible" thing. 

 

Sure, if someone has bailed for a side piece, not much you can do.  You go on and make the best of things and thrive. Living well is the best revenge, as they say.   If your life is in danger, then separation must obviously occur for safety reasons. 

 

But all this "the point of marriage is to make me happy" is a very recent development and not one that is best for the interests of the kids.  

 

Hopefully, I am misreading your statement and you are not arguing that a parent should model divorce for their kids in furtherance of their good relationship skills. ?? 

 

Surely we can agree that kids deserve their mom and dad as an ideal principle, even though people screw up and make mistakes.

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

Eh, not buying the "have to divorce to be the "best you possible" thing.

 

Sure, if someone has bailed for a side piece, not much you can do. You go on and make the best of things and thrive. Living well is the best revenge, as they say. If your life is in danger, then separation must obviously occur for safety reasons.

 

But all this "the point of marriage is to make me happy" is a very recent development and not one that is best for the interests of the kids.

 

Hopefully, I am misreading your statement and you are not arguing that a parent should model divorce for their kids in furtherance of their good relationship skills. ??

 

Surely we can agree that kids deserve their mom and dad as an ideal principle, even though people screw up and make mistakes.

I know plenty of people whose parents stayed married until the children were grown. They all wished they'd divorced sooner so they wouldn't have to be raised in a house with that kind of stress. It wasn't good for anyone living there.

[TranquilMind]

I know plenty of people whose parents stayed married until the children were grown. They all wished they'd divorced sooner so they wouldn't have to be raised in a house with that kind of stress. It wasn't good for anyone living there.

 

Or they wished the parents would have fixed it. 

 

You still need your parents when you are grown and you don't have them very long. 

 

[ThisIsTheDay]

I know plenty of people whose parents stayed married until the children were grown. They all wished they'd divorced sooner so they wouldn't have to be raised in a house with that kind of stress. It wasn't good for anyone living there.

 

Or parents who stay married forever and the kids wished, both as children and adults, that their parents divorced.

 

There was more to the gun incident. He took the gun from the house and went into the woods. There was concern in the house about what he might do, and the police were called. They found him in the woods, and he was fully cooperative, saying that he took the gun because of a conern that he might run into a mountain lion (or some other potentially lethal animal).

 

Marriage is hard sometimes. People do stupid things. Some have a low tolerance, some have a high tolerance. Some people I know split up at the drop of a hat; with others, I can't imagine how they've held on so long. For many people, marriage IS about being happy and/or has nothing to do with a vow before God. It's impossible to know exactly what goes on in a marriage, in a life together unless you're living it. It's sad for the kids, they'd rather everything just be right, even when that's impossible.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Just goes to show you really can't tell what is "real" on TV.  They always seem so cool and collected.  Almost to an annoying level like dude I'd be tearing my hair out and you are like "zzzzzzz".

 

 

[Murphy101]

I know plenty of people whose parents stayed married until the children were grown. They all wished they'd divorced sooner so they wouldn't have to be raised in a house with that kind of stress. It wasn't good for anyone living there.

I wish my parents had gotten their crap together, but I have no illusion that divorce would have fixed it or been better for us kids. It's not like divorce and having parents live separately is known as some amazingly peaceful thing in a child's life.

[Rosie_0801]

Hopefully, I am misreading your statement and you are not arguing that a parent should model divorce for their kids in furtherance of their good relationship skills. ?? 

 

 

Come now, TM. Why do you speak as though adultery, abuse and illegal activities are so rare they can be disregarded in conversations about divorce.

 

Of course if you have the key to making spouses intent on smashing boundaries care enough to stop doing that, I know a whole lot of people who'd like to know the secret.

 

Elegantlion is right. Demonstrating to our children that we will put up with atrocious behaviour from our spouse forever only trains them to be either victims or perpetrators themselves. If this is outside of your reality, that's wonderful, but you know it's not outside of many of ours.

[Scarlett]

These conversations always devolve to this.  I don't understand it.  I am divorced.  I made the decision to file for divorce.  And yet I still believe in every marriage at least ONE of the mates has not given it their all. Those are the people I ask the question of 'how can you do this to the children?'  

 

In the case of Christina and Tarek (how DO you spell his name?) neither of them has indicated there is some big issue that caused the other to file for divorce.  Maybe there is and they are just very private about it.  But I highly doubt it since they are celebrities and they are both dating other people already.  How can anyone spin that as being 'best for the children'.  I don't know.

 

 

[Scarlett]

I wish my parents had gotten their crap together, but I have no illusion that divorce would have fixed it or been better for us kids. It's not like divorce and having parents live separately is known as some amazingly peaceful thing in a child's life.

 

 

Yes this.  Exactly.  Having parents live separately or divorced is not some amazingly peaceful thing for a child.  Wow. That sums it up so well.  I felt I had no choice but oh GOD do I wish there was some way I could have held it together so my son could have had an intact family.  

[Scarlett]

Come now, TM. Why do you speak as though adultery, abuse and illegal activities are so rare they can be disregarded in conversations about divorce.

 

Of course if you have the key to making spouses intent on smashing boundaries care enough to stop doing that, I know a whole lot of people who'd like to know the secret.

 

Elegantlion is right. Demonstrating to our children that we will put up with atrocious behaviour from our spouse forever only trains them to be either victims or perpetrators themselves. If this is outside of your reality, that's wonderful, but you know it's not outside of many of ours.

 

 

Yes Rosie it is true that sometimes one has to flee from an abusive marriage.  But  OFTEN it is not the case.....it is just one or more people who are too selfish to work through problems.  

[alisoncooks]

I haven't read all the replies, nor have I read any of the "news" articles about this separation.

That said, I'm sorry for them. They've been through a lot (a huge financial loss before they became flippers, Tarek's cancer and treatment, her IVF). I'd almost wonder if they both have hormonal issues contributing to their break (his cancer was thyroid).

 

I watch their show occasionally. I never thought they were mean, or whatever, to each other.

[Murphy101]

These conversations always devolve to this. I don't understand it. I am divorced. I made the decision to file for divorce. And yet I still believe in every marriage at least ONE of the mates has not given it their all. Those are the people I ask the question of 'how can you do this to the children?'

 

In the case of Christina and Tarek (how DO you spell his name?) neither of them has indicated there is some big issue that caused the other to file for divorce. Maybe there is and they are just very private about it. But I highly doubt it since they are celebrities and they are both dating other people already. How can anyone spin that as being 'best for the children'. I don't know.

Yes. This. Over 1/2 of all marriages ending in divorce. No one denies some of those are rightly due to abuse of some kind, but what about the rest of them? Probably not?

 

Sometimes I don't even get it for the abuse situations. So often the spouses are enduring it because they can leave, but the kids don't get that option. They still have to deal with their abusive parent only it's usually sans the non abusive parent being around to buffer or protect.

 

Eta: The ones I'm most confounded by are the supposedly very amicable ones. If they could get along that well - why divorce?

Edited December 17, 2016 by Murphy101

[Guest]

These conversations are so strange to me. These shows are totally scripted. You (as in the general public) only know what these people are told to say to each other for 25 minutes a week. They could 100% be actors for all we know.

 

True story, DH's cousin is an actor in NY. He's been in several commercials and a bad horror movie. He was also a "contestant" on a dating show. He played a native New Yorker with the thick accent and all (he's from OH).

 

NOTHING on tv is real, not even the news.

[Scarlett]

Yes. This. Over 1/2 of all marriages ending in divorce. No one denies some of those are rightly due to abuse of some kind, but what about the rest of them? Probably not?

 

Sometimes I don't even get it for the abuse situations. So often the spouses are enduring it because they can leave, but the kids don't get that option. They still have to deal with their abusive parent only it's usually sans the non abusive parent being around to buffer or protect.

 

Eta: The ones I'm most confounded by are the supposedly very amicable ones. If they could get along that well - why divorce?

 

 

Exactly!   I always think that everytime I see such a 'good' divorce.  Why divorce?

 

Ugh.  I know there are things we don't know but really often it is just what it looks like.  And if you are fleeing an abusive situation I am not sure why you would be so private about that.....abuse thrives in private and secrecy...and that includes adultery. 

[Murphy101]

Yes this. Exactly. Having parents live separately or divorced is not some amazingly peaceful thing for a child. Wow. That sums it up so well. I felt I had no choice but oh GOD do I wish there was some way I could have held it together so my son could have had an intact family.

Well there is that stability factor but also....

 

Divorce would have gotten parents away from each other for the most part - but not the kids. One wouldn't have to ever listen to the other yelling and whatever again. But at least every other weekend the kids would have still been stuck dealing with it.

 

I guess that's better than every day (unless the abuser got custody which is not even a little unheard of) but it's hard to figure how a kid wouldn't feel screwed.

[TranquilMind]

These conversations are so strange to me. These shows are totally scripted. You (as in the general public) only know what these people are told to say to each other for 25 minutes a week. They could 100% be actors for all we know.

 

True story, DH's cousin is an actor in NY. He's been in several commercials and a bad horror movie. He was also a "contestant" on a dating show. He played a native New Yorker with the thick accent and all (he's from OH).

 

NOTHING on tv is real, not even the news.

 

Well, it appears that Christina and Tarak are really married and really have these two kids.

 

Sure, the show is scripted, and they replay incidents to increase drama,  but that's not the subject of this thread.

 

I agree the news isn't real, to a large degree. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

I haven't read all the replies, nor have I read any of the "news" articles about this separation.

That said, I'm sorry for them. They've been through a lot (a huge financial loss before they became flippers, Tarek's cancer and treatment, her IVF). I'd almost wonder if they both have hormonal issues contributing to their break (his cancer was thyroid).

 

I watch their show occasionally. I never thought they were mean, or whatever, to each other.

Right.  They seem nice to each other.

There are a pair of screamers on the Flipping Vegas show.  Now I really don't understand how those two stay together. 

[Rosie_0801]

Yes Rosie it is true that sometimes one has to flee from an abusive marriage.  But  OFTEN it is not the case.....it is just one or more people who are too selfish to work through problems.  

 

I still get the feeling that there are people around here who think physical violence is the only abuse that counts.

 

If TM was the judge of who around here's divorce was justified, I think she'd find her inbox would fill up before she'd had a chance to refill her coffee cup.

 

It's not a big step from selfishness to abuse and those of us who are divorced due to more than a flight of fancy on our parts get very sore from hearing that *we* should have done better. Only *one* person in my life ever told my spouse to treat me right. Everyone else preferred to reprimand the victim.

 

And I say all this knowing, because I've read enough of her posts, that I'd get TM's stamp of approval; I still feel the same pain from them and I sat it on behalf of everyone else who knows how this feels. People on this board don't divorce for nothing.

[TranquilMind]

Come now, TM. Why do you speak as though adultery, abuse and illegal activities are so rare they can be disregarded in conversations about divorce.

 

Of course if you have the key to making spouses intent on smashing boundaries care enough to stop doing that, I know a whole lot of people who'd like to know the secret.

 

Elegantlion is right. Demonstrating to our children that we will put up with atrocious behaviour from our spouse forever only trains them to be either victims or perpetrators themselves. If this is outside of your reality, that's wonderful, but you know it's not outside of many of ours.

 

See post 21.  She gets it. 

 

I'm not saying they are so rare they can be disregarded, but they surely aren't the reason that half of all marriages end in divorce. 

[TranquilMind]

I still get the feeling that there are people around here who think physical violence is the only abuse that counts.

 

If TM was the judge of who around here's divorce was justified, I think she'd find her inbox would fill up before she'd had a chance to refill her coffee cup.

 

It's not a big step from selfishness to abuse and those of us who are divorced due to more than a flight of fancy on our parts get very sore from hearing that *we* should have done better. Only *one* person in my life ever told my spouse to treat me right. Everyone else preferred to reprimand the victim.

 

And I say all this knowing, because I've read enough of her posts, that I'd get TM's stamp of approval; I still feel the same pain from them and I sat it on behalf of everyone else who knows how this feels. People on this board don't divorce for nothing.

 

Lots of people just want what they want when they want it. 

 

No one is talking about the others, who had to leave because they were being attacked or the spouse is committing adultery. 

 

Every time we have one of these discussions, it always devolves to this.  If it doesn't apply, then disregard, and still uphold the ideal of a happy marriage even if one doesn't currently have one, just like we uphold the ideal of perfect health, even if we are struggling at the moment. 

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by TranquilMind

[Scarlett]

I still get the feeling that there are people around here who think physical violence is the only abuse that counts.

 

If TM was the judge of who around here's divorce was justified, I think she'd find her inbox would fill up before she'd had a chance to refill her coffee cup.

 

It's not a big step from selfishness to abuse and those of us who are divorced due to more than a flight of fancy on our parts get very sore from hearing that *we* should have done better. Only *one* person in my life ever told my spouse to treat me right. Everyone else preferred to reprimand the victim.

 

And I say all this knowing, because I've read enough of her posts, that I'd get TM's stamp of approval; I still feel the same pain from them and I sat it on behalf of everyone else who knows how this feels. People on this board don't divorce for nothing.

 

 

Hey I have an XH who can look and act normal. And like the victim.  So I get that.  

 

I am not saying people on this board are divorcing for nothing.  I am saying if they divorced for something then their spouse is the one who allowed divorce instead of fixing their problems.

 

But beyond that are TWO people who often divorce with no good reason.  It does happen. A lot.

[TranquilMind]

I still get the feeling that there are people around here who think physical violence is the only abuse that counts.

 

If TM was the judge of who around here's divorce was justified, I think she'd find her inbox would fill up before she'd had a chance to refill her coffee cup.

 

It's not a big step from selfishness to abuse and those of us who are divorced due to more than a flight of fancy on our parts get very sore from hearing that *we* should have done better. Only *one* person in my life ever told my spouse to treat me right. Everyone else preferred to reprimand the victim.

 

And I say all this knowing, because I've read enough of her posts, that I'd get TM's stamp of approval; I still feel the same pain from them and I sat it on behalf of everyone else who knows how this feels. People on this board don't divorce for nothing.

 

Oh, and I would tell your spouse to treat you right, whether or not I knew him well enough, if I saw anything.  You can bet on that. 

 

Ephesians 5:25:  Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her.

 

Any man not doing that is sinning, not his wife.

[Rosie_0801]

See post 21.  She gets it. 

 

I'm not saying they are so rare they can be disregarded, but they surely aren't the reason that half of all marriages end in divorce. 

 

You may not be able to believe it, but I can. Easily.

 

Where would you hear these tales? From your irl friends? Nope. Either they are not victims of abuse, not recognising themselves as victims of abuse or you know their spouse so you are not a safe person to tell. Online? There's only so much victims will post on message boards because their perps read their posts to use in court.

 

Our culture punishes victims who speak out.

[Frances]

I certainly may ask the rhetorical question of "how can anyone do that to children" because I have seen and experienced the detrimental effects. I'm discussing the principle of the thing, not the specifics with this couple, because no one else knows.

 

However, it is true that people treat marriage - a vow before God - too lightly these days.

 

If you are married and dating other people, that's wrong. I don't care who you are.

Not all marriages involve a vow before God and you know it. Many people are married in civil ceremonies.

 

I actually used to believe as you do about adultery, that it is always wrong, until I read about the case of a woman from Afghanistan. She had fallen in love and wanted to get married. But her parents instead forced her to marry a much older man she did not know in order to repay his family for something her brother had done to dishonor the man's family. So she and her boyfriend left the country and were living together. There was no way for her to legally divorce her husband in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are other cases where someone is technically committing adultery, but the actual circumstances are much more complicated.

 

I think things are often not as black and white or as simple as they seem, and we should not rush to judge others when we do not know the whole story.

[mouse removal]

My parents were two perfectly reasonable, intelligent, kind people capable of happy long term relationships, unless they were married to each other. My siblings and I prayed for years for them to divorce. They did, yes I had to live in two homes. Two peaceful, stress free homes, with happy parents who went on to have happy stable relationships with my beloved step parents. My parents modeled how to treat your former spouse with respect, even if you were no longer married. They successfully co parented six kids to adulthood. I was well into adulthood before I realized it wasn't an amicable divorce.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Oh, and I would tell your spouse to treat you right, whether or not I knew him well enough, if I saw anything.  You can bet on that. 

 

Ephesians 5:25:  Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her.

 

Any man not doing that is sinning, not his wife.

 

Yes, I know these are your sentiments. :)

 

However you wouldn't have seen anything from him and would probably have thought I was the problem, and public shaming mostly only results in punishment to the victim, which is why these terribly useful (  :001_unsure:  ) domestic violence awareness organisations recommend not doing it.

 

What happens? The wife gets publicly shamed for divorcing a nice guy, or at least lumped in with the rest of the unjustified divorces. Sucks to be her because I don't think that pain ever goes away.

[elegantlion]

I still get the feeling that there are people around here who think physical violence is the only abuse that counts.

 

If TM was the judge of who around here's divorce was justified, I think she'd find her inbox would fill up before she'd had a chance to refill her coffee cup.

 

It's not a big step from selfishness to abuse and those of us who are divorced due to more than a flight of fancy on our parts get very sore from hearing that *we* should have done better. Only *one* person in my life ever told my spouse to treat me right. Everyone else preferred to reprimand the victim.

 

And I say all this knowing, because I've read enough of her posts, that I'd get TM's stamp of approval; I still feel the same pain from them and I sat it on behalf of everyone else who knows how this feels. People on this board don't divorce for nothing.

:iagree: I answered the question "How could anyone do this to the children?" Period. Some divorces give a lot of thought to "How can I do this to the children?" and come out with the answer of divorce. 

 

Yes, I know these are your sentiments. :)

 

However you wouldn't have seen anything from him and would probably have thought I was the problem, and public shaming mostly only results in punishment to the victim, which is why these terribly useful (  :001_unsure:  ) domestic violence awareness organisations recommend not doing it.

 

What happens? The wife gets publicly shamed for divorcing a nice guy, or at least lumped in with the rest of the unjustified divorces. Sucks to be her because I don't think that pain ever goes away.

 

Yup. There are some people that are now just seeing the full force of my "charming" ex. I'm just kind of nodding and reminding them that my daily life had been that way for at least the last half of our 20 year marriage. 

 

Not all marriages involve a vow before God and you know it. Many people are married in civil ceremonies.

 

I actually used to believe as you do about adultery, that it is always wrong, until I read about the case of a woman from Afghanistan. She had fallen in love and wanted to get married. But her parents instead forced her to marry a much older man she did not know in order to repay his family for something her brother had done to dishonor the man's family. So she and her boyfriend left the country and were living together. There was no way for her to legally divorce her husband in Afghanistan. I'm sure there are other cases where someone is technically committing adultery, but the actual circumstances are much more complicated.

 

I think things are often not as black and white or as simple as they seem, and we should not rush to judge others when we do not know the whole story.

 

Life has so much grey and what happens behind the closed doors of someone's home is not always shared in their public circle. I'm watching this in a friend now, who just happens to be male. I've seen him agonize for a long while trying to make it work, taking steps to make it work. He specifically mentioned several ways the current household atmosphere (non-abusive) is a negative for his children. It breaks my heart. 

 

 

I dislike the attitude that somehow the well-being of children is not a factor in a divorce. Some people are crappy parents and abandon their children, some people are just crappy human beings too. 

[Scarlett]

:iagree: I answered the question "How could anyone do this to the children?" Period. Some divorces give a lot of thought to "How can I do this to the children?" and come out with the answer of divorce. 

 

 

Yup. There are some people that are now just seeing the full force of my "charming" ex. I'm just kind of nodding and reminding them that my daily life had been that way for at least the last half of our 20 year marriage. 

 

 

Life has so much grey and what happens behind the closed doors of someone's home is not always shared in their public circle. I'm watching this in a friend now, who just happens to be male. I've seen him agonize for a long while trying to make it work, taking steps to make it work. He specifically mentioned several ways the current household atmosphere (non-abusive) is a negative for his children. It breaks my heart. 

 

 

I dislike the attitude that somehow the well-being of children is not a factor in a divorce. Some people are crappy parents and abandon their children, some people are just crappy human beings too. 

 

 

Do you think your X  took his child's well being into account?  I don't think my X did.  Those are the people I am speaking to.  Not the parent who takes control of a crappy situation and makes things better even if it includes a divorce.

[Scarlett]

On the other hand.....when I read the messages between my Xh and his girlfriend I could see the spin he put on our relationship.  Lies really.  We were about to divorce.  I was sleeping in the guest room.  He put our son to bed.  I had a drinking problem.     And on and on.  I don't think most people would fall for most of what he was spewing.  

 

So yes we don't really know what goes on behind closed doors.....but usually..especially if we are close to a couple....we have a pretty good idea.  

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

On the other hand.....when I read the messages between my Xh and his girlfriend I could see the spin he put on our relationship.  Lies really.  We were about to divorce.  I was sleeping in the guest room.  He put our son to bed.  I had a drinking problem.     And on and on.  I don't think most people would fall for most of what he was spewing.  

 

I dunno. They can be pretty good at it.

[KungFuPanda]

Or they wished the parents would have fixed it.

 

You still need your parents when you are grown and you don't have them very long.

The parents don't cease to exist to their children when they're divorced. My grandparents were divorced. They attended every one of my significant life events . . . usually together. My relationship with them was not defined by their marriage to each other. I'm STILL close to my grandmother. She's 92. Both grandparents remained civil to one another and close to their children long after their marriage ended.

 

Childhood is fleeting, but family relationships can be cherished for decades. I'm not anti-marriage. I've been married 24 happy years. My relationship with other people, however, has absolutely nothing to do with their marriages.

[Scarlett]

The parents don't cease to exist to their children when they're divorced. My grandparents were divorced. They attended every one of my significant life events . . . usually together. My relationship with them was not defined by their marriage to each other. I'm STILL close to my grandmother. She's 92. Both grandparents remained civil to one another and close to their children long after their marriage ended.

 

Childhood is fleeting, but family relationships can be cherished for decades. I'm not anti-marriage. I've been married 24 happy years. My relationship with other people, however, has absolutely nothing to do with their marriages.

 

 

Relationships with grandparents are quite different from relationships with parents.  Parents define our place in the world.  Our FOO is the center of our universe.  Losing that is very very difficult for children.  

 

That is not to say I think anyone should stay in an abusive or intolerable situation to keep their children in an intact family.  Even if the child never knows or never would know about the reason a divorce is needed...an abused person has a right to get out of an abusive situation.  

[heartlikealion]

My dh told me about this, but I wasn't sure if it was a separation or divorce. I was sad to hear. We used to watch their show a lot when we had satellite. I didn't even know about the second child til I heard the story.

[Scarlett]

My dh told me about this, but I wasn't sure if it was a separation or divorce. I was sad to hear. We used to watch their show a lot when we had satellite. I didn't even know about the second child til I heard the story.

 

 

I just read an article that said he was dating the former nanny.  Former because he fired her so he could date her.

 

Just ick and sad all around.

[heartlikealion]

I just read an article that said he was dating the former nanny.  Former because he fired her so he could date her.

 

Just ick and sad all around.

 

Hm. I will have to do some searching. All I had originally heard was there was some incident with him and a gun. I didn't know they ever had a nanny. When I used to watch the show it seemed like the daughter was often watched by the wife's mom.

 

[Scarlett]

Hm. I will have to do some searching. All I had originally heard was there was some incident with him and a gun. I didn't know they ever had a nanny. When I used to watch the show it seemed like the daughter was often watched by the wife's mom.

 

 

 

I know!  That is what I was thinking too.  I just read the article this second, so who knows it might be fake.....it popped up on my feed probably because I was talking about them on here.....creepy.

[SeaConquest]

I had an amicable divorce. We met in the Army when I was 17; he was 19. We married at 24 and 26, respectively. We went into the Army to pay for college, and ended up going to the same college together. Our plan was for him to become a history professor and for me to go to law school. We wanted to be a DC power couple.

 

Along the way, he found that he enjoyed being an officer in the infantry. He was an Army Ranger. Even after deployments to Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, he told me that there was nothing he could imagine doing that would be more fulfilling than leading men into battle. In short, he was the kind of guy to whom you would want to entrust the life of your 18 year old son.

 

Unfortunately, I was a much better soldier than I was military wife. Out of the 11 years that we were together, we were apart for 7 of them -- for several years, we were an ocean apart. It broke me. I couldn't do it anymore. I wanted my husband around, but I also wanted him to be happy and professionally fulfilled.

 

We divorced amicably, both happily remarried and each have 2 beautiful children. He is currently a Lieutenant Colonel, and has been in command of over 1000 soldiers in a batallion. He has advanced degrees in history and military strategy. I have no doubt that he will be a General someday. Most important, we are both happy, and in loving marriages.

 

Were we wrong to divorce? I went through years of terrible depression dealing with our constant separations. I was young, and learned much about myself, and what I needed in a relationship. Learning from the mistakes my ex and I made together has made us better partners to our spouses today. I am still sad that our marriage ended, but I truly believe that it was for the best. YMMV.

Edited December 18, 2016 by SeaConquest

[KungFuPanda]

Relationships with grandparents are quite different from relationships with parents. Parents define our place in the world. Our FOO is the center of our universe. Losing that is very very difficult for children.

 

That is not to say I think anyone should stay in an abusive or intolerable situation to keep their children in an intact family. Even if the child never knows or never would know about the reason a divorce is needed...an abused person has a right to get out of an abusive situation.

I absolutely understand that relationships with grandparents are different than with parents. It's why I included the fact that my grandparents had wonderful relationships with their children. Lives are long. The parent-child relationship can last 60+ years. That relationship isn't doomed because the parents were divorced for 5-10 years of childhood.

 

I'm not saying that divorce is in any way easy for kids, but I think they are much more influenced by the quality of the people raising them than they are by the marital status of their parents. I'm willing to bet there are as many stable divorced households as there are dysfunctional married households. People like to say the divorce rate is 50%, but has that even been true since the 80s? Also, WHO gets divorced on a whim outside of Hollywood? I know plenty of divorced people and I don't think any of them just woke up bored one day and decided to dissolve their marriages.

 

Maybe it's fun to judge other people's reasons for divorcing? How is it even possible to form an opinion when there's no way to know what goes on n anyone else's marriage? Maybe it just makes your own marriage feel bullet proof to believe that a high percentage of divorces came about from lack of effort? I don't think anyone is getting divorced to stick it to their children or because it's an easy thing to do. I just have a hard time believing that MOST people divorce for trivial reasons.