Exit Interviews & Rose Tinted Glasses

[Granny_Weatherwax]

When my DD opted not to continue with her 4-2 program, I warned her about continuing with her initial BS degree. It's fairly useless as a stand alone degree. She decided to believe the hype that any degree is better than no degree at all. :glare:

 

She had her exit interview yesterday and, along with finding out what her monthly student loan payments will be, she was schooled on job prospects and anticipated annual income for her degree. Needless to say, she came away from that interview in tears. Why, oh, why can't young adults listen every now and then to the people who love them? Yes, the school encouraged her to get her degree; they needed her to remain enrolled and graduate. It looks good for them. No, they do not have the best interests of their students at heart; it's counter productive to their bottom line. I am also gobsmacked that they require these exit interviews right before finals. "Hey there, you have $XX,000 in student loans and your payment, which begins in 6 months, will be $XXX a month. You'll need to earn $XX,000 a year in order to make those payments or, if you don't, your life will be in shambles. But, it's okay. Good luck on your Organic Chemistry final. BTW, the alumni association has this great packet of info for you on how you can make monthly contributions so students like you can enjoy an education at our fine establishment."

 

I am just thanking the heavens that we were able to support her for the last 4.5 years and that her loans are less than half of what they could have/would have been.

 

Now we have to figure out how to get her gainfully employed and earning the minimum amount needed in order to support her and her DD. 

[JanetC]

I am so sorry. That sounds awful. Has she started job hunting at all? What is her degree in? Even if she can't find a job in her field, there are a lot of management training programs in fields like retail/hotel/travel, etc. that will take someone with a degree in anything.

 

My daughter is an art major. I expect she will be doing a business certificate or something (there are actually a lot of 4-6 month programs out there) after graduation to make her degree more marketable.

[lauranc]

This sounds unpleasant to say the least!  I totally understand about wishing young adults would be a little more willing to entertain suggestions from people who love them. 

 

[regentrude]

I am sorry this was such a bad experience for her.

This said, I consider exit interviews an important tool for departments to improve their programs. And conducting it before finals is the only way to do it because students will disappear after their exams.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It may not be doom and gloom.  It often takes time to find something that pays decent enough, but even with a degree in psychology I found jobs that paid an amount I could live on.  And it definitely was a boost in terms of getting my foot in the door somewhere.

 

There are also loans that are based on income that are forgiven after a period of time (the forgiven amount is taxed though as a heads up) if it is too difficult to pay the full amount. 

 

I was never given any sort of exit interview. 

 

[Guest]

That stinks. I'm sorry.  You'd think they school would  be required to tell them that information explicitly BEFORE they let them sign up for the loan and/or for that major. It blows my mind that they have to jump through all sorts of hoops and things to disclose mortgage amounts and fees etc. in order to be transparent, but we don't seem to require the same thing of universities/colleges. It seems at least as many people get student loans as do mortgages anymore. You would think there would be more protections for the consumer on that end, but universities seem to be exempt on that front. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am so sorry. That sounds awful. Has she started job hunting at all? What is her degree in? 

Yes, she has been looking but our area is still in a depression/recession and jobs are difficult to come by. Many of our state universities  are closing departments so the competition for any open position is fierce. The local LAC is hiring for an executive assistant and people with MAs, MSs and even a PhD are applying for this hourly position. Yong graduates are cobbling together PT jobs in order to make ends meet. Two of DD's good friends are working four jobs between them in order to make ends meet. He has two PT jobs, she has a FT and a PT.  Both are looking at grad school and re-education in order to make themselves more marketable. It's just so difficult for young people in our area.

 

My DD's degree is in Biopsychology. She was in a 4-2 nursing program that would have given her an MSN but she decided nursing wasn't her thing at the moment. I kept telling her that an MSN would have guaranteed her a job anywhere; biopsych, not so much.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am sorry this was such a bad experience for her.

This said, I consider exit interviews an important tool for departments to improve their programs. And conducting it before finals is the only way to do it because students will disappear after their exams.

I agree except that in this case it wasn't a departmental exit interview. It was with the Financial Aid and Business Offices. It was strictly about loan repayment and her options. Of course, they were trying to convince her that the 25 year graduated loan repayment schedule was her best option. It looks so easy - beginning payments of $40 a month; easy peasy, right? Until I told her to look at the amount she would be paying back in interest and for how long. It was outrageous. Her DD is 5; her DD will be out of college and paying on student loans before DD's loans would be paid off.

[Hilltopmom]

If she's still slightly interested in the medical field,she could try phlebotomy (how I put myself thru college), lab tech, EKG tech, nurse's aide ( doesn't pay as well), radiology tech, etc. Some you need training classes,,some will train you.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

If she's still slightly interested in the medical field,she could try phlebotomy (how I put myself thru college), lab tech, EKG tech, nurse's aide ( doesn't pay as well), radiology tech, etc. Some you need training classes,,some will train you.

She is already a registered CNA. It was that experience that lead to her questioning the decision to become a nurse. Unfortunately the other options don't pay enough to get her out on her own and still allow her to pay her student loans. In our area phlebotomists make just above minimum wage. The one women I know who does phlebotomy for a local hospital works multiple jobs to make ends meet.

 

DD recently applied to be a 911 operator; this position paid a living hourly wage and she would have been able to become independent. The job posting went up on a Monday at 9am, she applied that day by noon. There were over 200 applicants for the position within 24 hours and the posting was withdrawn.

[katilac]

 You'd think they school would  be required to tell them that information explicitly BEFORE they let them sign up for the loan and/or for that major. It blows my mind that they have to jump through all sorts of hoops and things to disclose mortgage amounts and fees etc. in order to be transparent, but we don't seem to require the same thing of universities/colleges. 

 

In all fairness to the school, it is pretty easy to look up potential repayment plans and even the prospects for a certain major. I don't know if they have to explicitly disclose it or not, but it's not hidden information.

 

I agree except that in this case it wasn't a departmental exit interview. It was with the Financial Aid and Business Offices.  

 

 

This is required by federal law. 

 

I'm sorry, OP. I'm a definitely believer in field experience as early as possible for as many students as possible, particularly in the medical and teaching fields. It sucks when you're in pretty deep and realize you don't want to pursue that major. It's hard to know the best way to proceed. 

 

I don't think it's hype that any major is better than none, in the sense that a degree IS more likely to lead to a job. Whether or not you should continue in your dd's situation depends on a lot of things, definitely how long she had to go and how much additional debt she was taking on to finish. 

 

It sounds like your local economy would be making it difficult for her no matter what decision she made. It might be worth casting a very wide net geography-wise in order to gain some experience. If she has friends or families in other cities, she might ask them if she can use their mailing address on her resume (as they are less likely to hire someone who will have a long commute). 

 

If a move to a more vibrant city is at all an option, I would definitely consider it. I know having a young child complicates things, but both dh and I had to gain experience in other states before we could find decent jobs in our preferred location. 

 

With her degree, she might consider something in medical sales or training. These jobs generally require a lot of travel, but they pay quite well and the travel means they aren't as location dependent. She would probably have to continue to use your house as home base for a while, but she could easily make enough to pay for a good amount of child care so that you are are only responsible for her dd at night. 

 

Not enough to pay the bills, but virtual administrative type assignments might help her gain experience and a bit of money while searching. Babysitting and before/after school care won't help with experience but might improve cash flow, and is generally needed no matter what the local economy. Tutoring and/or homeschool science classes might be an option. 

 

All my sympathies, and best of luck to her! 

Edited November 30, 2016 by katilac

[Bluegoat]

She must feel very disheartened.

 

She may be right not to have persued nursing if she disliked it - it isn't the kind of work that is gentle to those not cut out for it.

 

If she has computer knowledge, she could look into some medical software or infomatics areas - lots of people come into those careers from less than direct paths.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

<snip>

 

If a move to a more vibrant city is at all an option, I would definitely consider it. I know having a young child complicates things, but both dh and I had to gain experience in other states before we could find decent jobs in our preferred location. 

 

<snip>

 

All my sympathies, and best of luck to her! 

Thank you for the reply.

 

We wish beyond measure that she could move away. Unfortunately, we live in a state that recently passed more stringent family law & parenting rights legislation. As a result, she cannot move more than 50 miles without a court order. It used to be "within the state" so she was set to leave after graduation. With the new 50 mile limit law, it hinders her ability to look elsewhere. :(

[regentrude]

We wish beyond measure that she could move away. Unfortunately, we live in a state that recently passed more stringent family law & parenting rights legislation. As a result, she cannot move more than 50 miles without a court order. It used to be "within the state" so she was set to leave after graduation. With the new 50 mile limit law, it hinders her ability to look elsewhere. :(

 

That just sucks. And makes no sense if there are no jobs.

[katilac]

Thank you for the reply.

 

We wish beyond measure that she could move away. Unfortunately, we live in a state that recently passed more stringent family law & parenting rights legislation. As a result, she cannot move more than 50 miles without a court order. It used to be "within the state" so she was set to leave after graduation. With the new 50 mile limit law, it hinders her ability to look elsewhere. :(

 

That is awful. I get the reasoning behind it in some ways, but she has to support them! 

[katilac]

I hope you know that we are tossing out suggestions because we are really hoping to stumble upon a helpful idea, not because we think you and dd haven't considered numerous possibilities. I know that 'helpful' advice can seem more like piling on at times! 

 

Sometimes it seems there are no good options. I am sure she will come out fine in the end, but it's really tough in the meanwhile. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by katilac

[goldberry]

 

I'm sorry, OP. I'm a definitely believer in field experience as early as possible for as many students as possible, particularly in the medical and teaching fields. It sucks when you're in pretty deep and realize you don't want to pursue that major. It's hard to know the best way to proceed. 

 

 

 

So true.  DD is a science and math kid, I really tried to encourage her toward nursing.  She did some volunteer work and it was just not clicking for her.  She was interested in teaching and did some student aid work that lit her up like a candle.  So now she is planning biology with secondary education certification.

 

I'm worried though.  Teaching is not the same as student aiding, and a biology degree alone is not that useful.  The only other degree she would consider is math though, which I don't know is any better.

[bettyandbob]

So true.  DD is a science and math kid, I really tried to encourage her toward nursing.  She did some volunteer work and it was just not clicking for her.  She was interested in teaching and did some student aid work that lit her up like a candle.  So now she is planning biology with secondary education certification.

 

I'm worried though.  Teaching is not the same as student aiding, and a biology degree alone is not that useful.  The only other degree she would consider is math though, which I don't know is any better.

 

 

She may not need a whole degree in math to teach it. She should look up the credit requirements for teaching different levels of math and science. It may be that if she has a certain number of credits in specific courses she can meet the subject requirements. I've known people who taught math and something else, but I know they did not have degrees in both subjects. 

 

Another thing, would she be interested in aiding in sp ed. I know a lot of people who have been hired as teachers after being teacher aides in sp ed. Many of these people are hired provisionally without the sp ed certification and are given a time period to work on the necessary coursework while working full time at teachers. 

[Frances]

So true. DD is a science and math kid, I really tried to encourage her toward nursing. She did some volunteer work and it was just not clicking for her. She was interested in teaching and did some student aid work that lit her up like a candle. So now she is planning biology with secondary education certification.

 

I'm worried though. Teaching is not the same as student aiding, and a biology degree alone is not that useful. The only other degree she would consider is math though, which I don't know is any better.

I would say that if teaching doesn't work out, math is likely a much more marketable degree than biology, especially if she has some programming experience and/or job or internship experience working with real data. There are all different types of analysts jobs in the public and private sector and an undergrad math degree would also be great preparation for a variety of marketable master's degrees such as statistics, finance, data science, etc.

 

And in regards to teaching, my niece is a senior bio major math minor and plans to get a Master's degree in education so she can teach middle school or high school math and/or science.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I happened to run into one of my deans yesterday and we had an interesting conversation. One topic in the discussion was how IL is an exporter of young people (Chicago excluded) because there are no jobs. As the Dean of a satellite campus for our CC, this person is in a unique position to have watched how the IL economy has altered education and job placement over the last 20 years. It's disheartening to say the least.

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Susan Wise Bauer
Let's stay away from the politicking, please.

[katilac]

I agree that math is a much more marketable degree - not for a pure math field, necessarily, but most businesses will look upon it favorably. If she can add a minor or even just a few relevant classes, all the more so. 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

Has she checked on alternative certification programs? Or Teach for America? Often if you have a STEM degree, you can do a program that lets you get your license while teaching. The 50 mile limit may affect her, though-often college towns don't have a teacher shortage, even in high need areas, while other parts of a state do.

[flyingiguana]

I do see kids getting jobs with just a biology degree.  That she also has nursing experience/certification may also help.  Are there any job fairs she can go to? That might give her some ideas as to what's out there.  

 

Is there any industry nearby?  Because they are often looking for people with a stem degree of any sort.  It may not say "biology" on the job description, but that doesn't mean she'd be out of luck.

 

Food plants, sewage treatment plants (ie city jobs), etc -- that kind of thing might be worth looking for.  Nurses can also sometimes be part of a research team.  They may not be doing nursing, per se, but that experience can be useful.  My neighbor (an ex-nurse) was working as a grant overseer for a medical research team for awhile.

 

I've seen kids get into a low level industry job with a bio degree (kids who didn't manage to get into grad school) who have now risen to fairly responsible and well paid positions.  It may take a few years.  But it's not a worthless degree by any means.  The kids who come out of the college where I work are just as likely to get a job with a bio degree as a math degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by flyingiguana

[MarkT]

Thank you for the reply.

 

We wish beyond measure that she could move away. Unfortunately, we live in a state that recently passed more stringent family law & parenting rights legislation. As a result, she cannot move more than 50 miles without a court order. It used to be "within the state" so she was set to leave after graduation. With the new 50 mile limit law, it hinders her ability to look elsewhere. :(

? please explain? - I am assuming your child is at least 18 - Are you not an "adult" at that age?

[bettyandbob]

? please explain? - I am assuming your child is at least 18 - Are you not an "adult" at that age?

 

Her graduating dd has a child, the OP's granddaughter. The dd cannot move her own daughter to find better employment for herself. 

[Melabella]

My mother was an RN. She worked in a hospital as a nurse for 20 years, but came to dislike the work as she is not much of "a people person". For the second half of her career, she worked for medical insurance companies in various positions as a nurse. For instance, she determined if procedures were medically necessary, worked in fraud investigations, etc. Those positions pay well.

 

Also, what about medical transcription?

Edited December 3, 2016 by Melabella

[flyingiguana]

My mother was an RN. She worked in a hospital as a nurse for 20 years, but came to dislike the work as she is not much of "a people person". For the second half of her career, she worked for medical insurance companies in various positions as a nurse. For instance, she determined if procedures were medically necessary, worked in fraud investigations, etc. Those positions pay well.

 

Also, what about medical transcription?

 

There are companies that hire people to do medical transcription while working from home.  That might be a possibility.  

 

When I googled this idea, several companies came up in the search.  (I don't know how reputable they are)

[Ravin]

She needs to get on the direct loans website or her loan servicer's website and look up income based repayment plans. Even with poor job prospects, there is no reason for loans to be a huge problem.

[katilac]

There are companies that hire people to do medical transcription while working from home.  That might be a possibility.  

 

When I googled this idea, several companies came up in the search.  (I don't know how reputable they are)

 

My cousin does legal transcription from home. Both would require training. 

[JanetC]

It used to be "within the state" so she was set to leave after graduation. With the new 50 mile limit law, it hinders her ability to look elsewhere. :(

If the child's father was OK with her leaving before the law changed, would he fight your DDs request to move in family court?

[Shifra]

I was thinking of a few more ideas for careers for your daughter. One is that she could work in daycare (but I'm sure you know that many daycare workers do not make a living wage). Another thing is that she could think about working as an activity director, particularly since she has nursing home experience. Similarly, there is a chance that she could use her college coursework to work in child life. These last two professions require quite a bit of psychology coursework in their certification programs.

 

However, I do sympathize with your daughter. I dropped out of nursing school in 1991, when I failed my last course to graduate. I didn't seem to have the (fine motor) skills to be a good nurse, and I didn't want to be a bad nurse. I sometimes regret it, but let's face it, if you're not suited to a profession, there is no need to make a round peg fit in a square hole.

 

Good luck to both of you!

[Guest2]

I am so sorry . That is horrible news to hear after working so hard.

 

Just an idea, but with some of the areas she is intersted in, she might like Occupational Therapy. She probably has many of the prerequisites and the entry level masters degree requires an undergraduate degree in something..and biopyschology is ideal . The very best thing is is the great job outlook, and pretty good pay. The national organization does a good job of making sure the market isn't flooded with graduates, so it seems like most places have a need. Her loans would be deferred and sadly she would need more of them, but salaries have remained on the higher end. http://www1.salary.com/Occupational-Therapist-Salary.html

 

 

Here is a link for info..http://www.aota.org/Education-Careers/Considering-OT-Career.aspx

The degree she might want to look into is the MOT( Masters of Occupational Therapy) . http://www.aota.org/education-careers/find-school/accreditentrylevel/otmasters.aspx

Anyway, something to think about. My daughter is planning on going this route. HTH!

Edited December 18, 2016 by Silver Brook

[Guest2]

I just wanted to add that if there is no MOT school nearby, there is a program commonly found at the CCs for an Occupational therapy assistant, It is also a two year degree, and you pass a national exam at the end to become a COTA. The salary is not as high, but there are more schools and perhaps one would be nearby? http://www1.salary.com/Certified-Occupational-Therapist-Assistant-salary.html

Bot OTs and COTAs work in hosptials, rehab facilities, private offices,home health, schools,and nursing homes. Depending on which type of job you choose, it can be a great fit for flexibility in hours, ect.

 

There are a few bridge programs in which COTA can get their MOT. So she could boost her salary at a later date if it is not feasible now.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Silver Brook