blood glucose levels and carbs

[Soror]

I've had such a hard time getting my fasting levels down unless my carbs go super duper low and then I end up feeling crappy. I don't know why I just had this thought that what if I try something totally different. I read some interesting studies about patients reducing bg levels on higher carb diets (yes really- some eating copious amounts of sugar and white rice- fascinating stuff). Anyway, I figure if what I'm not doing is working then it is silly to keep trying it. 

 

Yesterday-

breakfast- gf steel cut oats(maybe a cup) for breakfast w/ chopped apple & cinnamon(yes I know cinnamon can reduce bg, no this wasn't a new additon- I ate it every day doing lc), defatted bacon

lunch -white jasmine rice(cup or so) w/ black beans and sweet pot

snack -apple + a few dried figs

supper- wild boar ribs, super market potato salad(about a cup) and plain green beans- along w/ a cup of some punch(party)

 

I slept horribly(life stress) and my fasting level was still 99. 

 

Going lc it has been taking quite an effort and time to get under 100. I've been curious if it is my protein levels causing part of the problem. I'll be interested to see how this experiment goes. I just know I was having difficulty feel satiety from protein and fat and a hell of time reducing bg levels AND feeling good. (Yes I've done lc and vlc before and had success- no I wasn't using frakenfoods or sugar subs. No I'm not interested in tips and tricks to make sure I'm doing it "right").

Edited August 27, 2016 by soror

[Greta]

I don't have an answer for you, but I am curious about one thing.  Assuming that your post-prandial BG is normal (stays under 120), then is there real reason to be concerned about fasting levels?  I don't mean that in a "challenging" way but in a genuinely curious way.  Organ damage starts to occur at 140, and obviously you are well below that when fasting.  So if your post-prandial numbers are staying below that too, is there cause for concern?

[Soror]

I don't have an answer for you, but I am curious about one thing.  Assuming that your post-prandial BG is normal (stays under 120), then is there real reason to be concerned about fasting levels?  I don't mean that in a "challenging" way but in a genuinely curious way.  Organ damage starts to occur at 140, and obviously you are well below that when fasting.  So if your post-prandial numbers are staying below that too, is there cause for concern?

I don't think it is damaging at that level but it shows impaired function and I'd prefer to get it back to normal before it hits diabetic levels. I think the sooner it is addressed the easier it is to reverse. 

[wapiti]

I have no idea, but please post updates on your experiment!  I think the protein angle is really interesting.  (I seem sensitive to protein and I'm always confused about recommended amounts, which seem way too much for me.)

[Soror]

I have no idea, but please post updates on your experiment!  I think the protein angle is really interesting.  (I seem sensitive to protein and I'm always confused about recommended amounts, which seem way too much for me.)

I will update. I'm interested to see how it goes too. I don't know if it is protein or something else, so hard to say with so many variables. I think individuals are so unique and so much we don't know.

[kiana]

I've seen some people do really well on a high carb diet. 

 

here's an interesting study with different diets fed to different strains of rats -- https://www.sciencenews.org/article/no-one-fits-all-healthy-diet-exists

[Greta]

I don't think it is damaging at that level but it shows impaired function and I'd prefer to get it back to normal before it hits diabetic levels. I think the sooner it is addressed the easier it is to reverse. 

 

 

I see.  I didn't know if there was any evidence of that being linked to impaired function or health problems (alongside normal post-prandial numbers, that is).  

 

When I went LC, my post-prandial numbers improved *immediately*.  My fasting numbers were much slower to go down.  Like, years.  Have you been doing LC for long?

[ktgrok]

it can also be very personal, as to WHAT raises BG. For some oatmeal does, for some, too much chicken does. Play around with it. and watch for reactive hypoglycemia...I'd be concerned that fasting levels are going down due to spikes and lows, not true control, with lots of carbs. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that in general exercise helps a lot with this--a 10 minute walk after each time you eat, plus aerobics for 30-60 minutes most days to improve overall fitness and hence reduce insulin resistance.

[Pegasus]

I am all for self experimentation! Please continue posting your findings. Do you test your blood sugar after these meals? I would be very curious to find out if you are spiking high then dropping fast.

[AK_Mom4]

Sleep  quality has a big impact on fasting BG levels.  You mentioned that your sleep was terrible - if you can find a way to improve that (reduce stress, nighttime hygiene, whatever) you will probably find that the early morning number drops significantly.

[Rosie_0801]

Have you been eating supper? That made a big difference to my fasting levels when I had gestational diabetes.

[Meriwether]

I don't have an answer for you, but I am curious about one thing.  Assuming that your post-prandial BG is normal (stays under 120), then is there real reason to be concerned about fasting levels?  I don't mean that in a "challenging" way but in a genuinely curious way.  Organ damage starts to occur at 140, and obviously you are well below that when fasting.  So if your post-prandial numbers are staying below that too, is there cause for concern?

Are most people able to keep their BG under 120?

[Soror]

My sleep has actually been pretty good most of the time but I have some (I hope) transient stress right now that kept me up most of the night. I did notice it generaly much worse when my sleep was worse and I'd thought it might normalize when my sleep normalized but it didn't, which is another reason I was surprised it was sub 100 with the kind of night I have.

 

I do eat supper, I don't generally skip any meals. I've tried eating snacks before bed of various types and all different kinds of stuff but not noticed any of that helping.

 

I'm an avid exerciser, I average 5 hrs or so a week and have for a few years. 

 

I used to check my bg all the time but I'm just rather tired of it at the moment, to be honest! I had started checking my fasting numbers again and saw they were still above 100 so I had thought I'd mess around with stuff again b/c lc eating no longer feels good to me.

[Greta]

Are most people able to keep their BG under 120?

From what I've read, yes, metabolically healthy people don't go over 120, but staying under 140 is still good. Blood Sugar 101 is a good source of info.

[Greta]

Forgot the link: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

[Soror]

Forgot the link: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

re: normal levels

 

I had a NP tell me that fasting levels of 120-125 even are totally normal. She asked where I'd heard that, I said the American Diabetes Assoc. and she tells me they just are trying to make money off of people and she's never seen anybody w/ fasting levels at that point have any trouble. Needless to say I never went to her again, I doubt she would be much concerned with statistics showing how egregiously wrong she is if she is that ignorant to know that fasting levels are sub 100.

[Meriwether]

From what I've read, yes, metabolically healthy people don't go over 120, but staying under 140 is still good. Blood Sugar 101 is a good source of info.

I've read that, but I don't know how common that is. I wouldn't be diagnosed as prediabetic yet. I still pass on the fasting glucose and probably would on the two hour one, too, but my bg spikes up much higher than that. I had hoped that losing weight and being more active would put me back in normal territory, but that hasn't happened after 10 months of lifestyle adjustments and 40 pounds.

[Greta]

I've read that, but I don't know how common that is. I wouldn't be diagnosed as prediabetic yet. I still pass on the fasting glucose and probably would on the two hour one, too, but my bg spikes up much higher than that. I had hoped that losing weight and being more active would put me back in normal territory, but that hasn't happened after 10 months of lifestyle adjustments and 40 pounds.

Well it sounds like you've accomplished great things in 10 months!!! And your body will continue to heal and make progress - maybe not as quickly as it did in the first few months, but it will continue.

 

I'm not sure how common it is either, but I know other people in my family who have tested never break 110, even after a carby meal with dessert! I'm not that lucky.

[Greta]

re: normal levels

 

I had a NP tell me that fasting levels of 120-125 even are totally normal. She asked where I'd heard that, I said the American Diabetes Assoc. and she tells me they just are trying to make money off of people and she's never seen anybody w/ fasting levels at that point have any trouble. Needless to say I never went to her again, I doubt she would be much concerned with statistics showing how egregiously wrong she is if she is that ignorant to know that fasting levels are sub 100.

Wise decision!

[ktgrok]

Are most people able to keep their BG under 120?

 

Under 140 at 1 hour, and 120 at 2 hours, is the goal. (at least, that is the goal for pregnancy...might be different otherwise)

[Soror]

I've read that, but I don't know how common that is. I wouldn't be diagnosed as prediabetic yet. I still pass on the fasting glucose and probably would on the two hour one, too, but my bg spikes up much higher than that. I had hoped that losing weight and being more active would put me back in normal territory, but that hasn't happened after 10 months of lifestyle adjustments and 40 pounds.

Good for you, that is wonderful progress!

[Meriwether]

Well it sounds like you've accomplished great things in 10 months!!! And your body will continue to heal and make progress - maybe not as quickly as it did in the first few months, but it will continue.

 

I'm not sure how common it is either, but I know other people in my family who have tested never break 110, even after a carby meal with dessert! I'm not that lucky.

My husband maintains great bg numbers, too. I'm glad because that means he is healthier than he might otherwise be and that my kids might inherit those genes. I'm in this for the long haul. I like eating healthy foods. I am enjoying life more now than I was a year ago. This lifestyle is doing more for me than just losing weight. People at church have been mentioning that I look like I feel better as well as look thinner. If my bg doesn't improve at least it will hopefully not get worse or get worse much more slowly. And it is surely making me healthier in other ways, too.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hey whatever works!  I think that is very interesting and I'm curious to hear updates.

 

On vacation I had a lot carbier breakfasts than I normally do and often that doesn't go well for me.  I did pretty well.  Only had one day where I knew my blood sugar had dropped (my reactions are super low blood sugar rather than high).  Although I never had stuff like cereal which is the worst offender usually. 

 

Then again my MIL was constantly serving food.  It was a bit crazy.  No real time to get hungry!!

 

 

[Greta]

My husband maintains great bg numbers, too. I'm glad because that means he is healthier than he might otherwise be and that my kids might inherit those genes. I'm in this for the long haul. I like eating healthy foods. I am enjoying life more now than I was a year ago. This lifestyle is doing more for me than just losing weight. People at church have been mentioning that I look like I feel better as well as look thinner. If my bg doesn't improve at least it will hopefully not get worse or get worse much more slowly. And it is surely making me healthier in other ways, too.

That is wonderful, Meriwether!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

How about adding more fiber to each meal to control BG? For example, Bob's Red Mill makes a high fiber hot cereal that can be found on amazon which I plan on mixing with oatmeal. Also, chia seeds and ground flax seed can be mixed to increase fiber content. 

 

 

I also try to eat 15 grams of protein with each meal too and try to stick low glycemic load carbs. I try to minimize bread, potatoes, pasta, rice but still have these. I use sprouted bread like Ezekial or other dense whole bread when I do it. I used Barilla plus for pasta since it has protein and other goodies. I tend to eat apples and berries due to lower glycemic load. Sweet potatoes are better than white potatoes. I do use white jasmine or basmati rice instead of the brown rices due to the arsenic issues with rice. Plain whole milk greek yogurt mixed with Trader Joe's low sugar strawberry preserves is delicious. I use whole milk or kefir too since the fat is satiating.

 

Another thing to try is a bit of metamucil with each meals or in between meals. Just be sure to drink plenty of water and work your way with the dosing. Atkins talked about the benefit of this in his books and I think he is right. Avoid using within 2 hours of medication since it will interfere with absorption of meds.

 

 

[Murphy101]

Under 140 at 1 hour, and 120 at 2 hours, is the goal. (at least, that is the goal for pregnancy...might be different otherwise)

It's a little different, but not by a lot.

 

A 100 fasting BG is good. Not even a little bit bad. 90-110 is usually considered close to perfect BG numbers, fasting or not.

 

ETA: "perfect" not expected to be a 24/7 requirement.

And also understanding that a LOT more than food intake can affect BG levels.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Murphy101

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I forgot to add that I have minimized drastically the amount of sugar and sweets I eat. I also got rid of artificial sweeteners and diet pepsi. The only artifical sweeteners I eat are in pure protein bars/drinks.

[AmandaVT]

DH's blood sugar numbers came down pretty dramatically after switching to a mostly plant based, high fiber diet. Lots of veggies, legumes, nuts, fruits, oats, whole grain bread, jasmine rice, etc. Some yogurt every day, an occasional ice cream or cheese splurge. 

 

His were in the pre-diabetic range and came down to the high 80's at his last physical. 

[melmichigan]

Fasting blood sugars (8-10 hours) in the morning are not influenced by diet and exercise in the same way daytime levels are, and are usually hormone driven.  I will be interested in hearing how your experiment goes.

Edited August 28, 2016 by melmichigan

[Soror]

Fwiw I had thought I was out of strips and didn't test this morning. I'm feeling good. Perhaps surprising to some I'm not having cravings, if anything it is the opposite, I'm feeling satiated. My weight has been steadily dropping (a few lbs had crept on after my last thyroid crash). Anyway, I have also had a thought as melmichigan said that there is so much more at play here then what I'm eating so I didn't have much to lose to try something new. I'm also just very, very tired of food restrictions.

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by soror

[Soror]

I mean I do want my bg numbers to be good obviously but I'm rather tired of putting so much focus on it. I'm striving to just enjoy real whole foods and see where that lands me. I've been generally paleo for um, 11 yrs now and I'm feeling rather done with that. I'm tired of food dogma and restrictions. There is just so much cherry picking when it comes to diet talk in general. I was reading on Denise Minger's site the other day, the one you famously set about destroying the China Study, her latest post was talking about the science showing health improvements w/ low fat diets, as I said white rice and sugar improving blood sugar. I find her rather refreshing in that she isn't beholden to one side or another, I'm sure many in the Paleo/LC Sphere were less than thrilled with that post after praising her wisdom in her China Study take-down. I'm not specifically trying any certain diet right now, I'm not counting anything officially I am trying to reduce protein first most and then somewhat reducing fat too- although I'm far from being low fat. I'm just trying some things out and seeing what I like, what works and what makes me feel good.

[Pawz4me]

I mean I do want my bg numbers to be good obviously but I'm rather tired of putting so much focus on it. I'm striving to just enjoy real whole foods and see where that lands me. I've been generally paleo for um, 11 yrs now and I'm feeling rather done with that. I'm tired of food dogma and restrictions. There is just so much cherry picking when it comes to diet talk in general. I was reading on Denise Minger's site the other day, the one you famously set about destroying the China Study, her latest post was talking about the science showing health improvements w/ low fat diets, as I said white rice and sugar improving blood sugar. I find her rather refreshing in that she isn't beholden to one side or another, I'm sure many in the Paleo/LC Sphere were less than thrilled with that post after praising her wisdom in her China Study take-down. I'm not specifically trying any certain diet right now, I'm not counting anything officially I am trying to reduce protein first most and then somewhat reducing fat too- although I'm far from being low fat. I'm just trying some things out and seeing what I like, what works and what makes me feel good.

 

I've just gotten started, but that is a fascinating article. I'm old enough to remember when HCLF was the big thing, so it's bringing back a lot of memories (Susan Powter!). Can't wait to finish it.

[Meriwether]

I mean I do want my bg numbers to be good obviously but I'm rather tired of putting so much focus on it. I'm striving to just enjoy real whole foods and see where that lands me. I've been generally paleo for um, 11 yrs now and I'm feeling rather done with that. I'm tired of food dogma and restrictions. There is just so much cherry picking when it comes to diet talk in general. I was reading on Denise Minger's site the other day, the one you famously set about destroying the China Study, her latest post was talking about the science showing health improvements w/ low fat diets, as I said white rice and sugar improving blood sugar. I find her rather refreshing in that she isn't beholden to one side or another, I'm sure many in the Paleo/LC Sphere were less than thrilled with that post after praising her wisdom in her China Study take-down. I'm not specifically trying any certain diet right now, I'm not counting anything officially I am trying to reduce protein first most and then somewhat reducing fat too- although I'm far from being low fat. I'm just trying some things out and seeing what I like, what works and what makes me feel good.

I read part 1 last night. That was very interesting. I'm not ready to switch to a rice and sugar diet, but it does make me question the prevailing thought.

 

Have you looked into Fuhrman's End of Diabetes book? It is largely plant based, so not low carb. I will probably end up on his plan eventually.

[Soror]

I've just gotten started, but that is a fascinating article. I'm old enough to remember when HCLF was the big thing, so it's bringing back a lot of memories (Susan Powter!). Can't wait to finish it.

 

 

I read part 1 last night. That was very interesting. I'm not ready to switch to a rice and sugar diet, but it does make me question the prevailing thought.

 

Have you looked into Fuhrman's End of Diabetes book? It is largely plant based, so not low carb. I will probably end up on his plan eventually.

I believe she only has the part 1 so far- she only rarely puts out articles as she spends so long on them.

 

 

I've honestly not read any vegetarian books. I've dabbled here and there and it hasn't worked for me. Although I've always been a big proponent of different diets for different people. I mean it seems clear when you look the world over there are healthy people on a variety of diets. But paleo and lc has worked for me so I've kept with it. It is not working as of late so I thought why am I holding myself to this paradigm, what if I approach this as I had no prejudices. I may end up back there or not. I don't know. 

[ktgrok]

Oh my goodness.that article is FASCINATING. The idea of there being TWO sweet spots, with traditional diets falling on either end of the spectrum, makes a TON of sense. You know when I was at my thinnest? In college. I LOST 15 pounds as a freshman, eating less than 10 grams a day. Total processed junk, mind you. Snack wells, fat free frozen yogurt, and lean cuisines. Oh, and turkey sandwiches on white bread with miracle whip. But I was a stickler about that 10 grams. 

 

Since then, my best weight loss is low carb, but I've never really tried super low fat again either. Interesting. 

[Soror]

A check-in of sorts---

 

I've found that if I gorge without regard to serving size on carbs my bg will spike (looking at you chips and salsa)- I made it up to 175 1hr post meal

 

BUT eating moderate amounts of various beans and grains is working just fine. 

 

After my chip gorge and a late supper my morning levels were 109, of course I've had that high eating less than half the carbs the day before.

 

Another am I had 105 which has been fairly common- I didn't exercise that day

 

This am I'm at 92 (woot!)

- yesterday's food

breakfast- chicken sausage w/ kale and sweet potato

-post workout banana+ scrambled eggs

-lunch- kale salad w/ 2 oz chicken, sunflower seeds pecans, bit of dried cranberries, cucumbers- poppy seed dressing

-teatime snack 2 oz. dark chocolate

- supper- 1/2 white rice, 1/2 c black beans 2 oz chicken, 1/2 avocado, cilantro, 2 cups lettuce

- dessert 2oz dark chocolate w/ caramel (I don't generally eat that much chocolate but dh bought me some and I didn't resist :) )

 

I'm going to try to watch it for awhile and see what happens. How much is random? What role does carb level play? How about exercise? How early we eat supper/how long my fasting period is? Correlation between day before levels and next morning? 

 

The highest I checked yesterday my levels got up to 115. I obviously didn't go crazy w/ carbs but then again I ate what I wanted, so that is the real point. 

[Meriwether]

How has it been going lately?

[J-rap]

I don't know what my blood glucose levels are and I do not have diabetes, but I used to get severely faint and dizzy and shaky regularly and it was directly related to what I ate.  When I began reducing carbs, it only helped a little, until I upped my protein.  I'm sure I eat at least twice as much protein now than I used to, and I feel great.  

 

Anyway, just a thought.

[kiana]

Oh my goodness.that article is FASCINATING. The idea of there being TWO sweet spots, with traditional diets falling on either end of the spectrum, makes a TON of sense. You know when I was at my thinnest? In college. I LOST 15 pounds as a freshman, eating less than 10 grams a day. Total processed junk, mind you. Snack wells, fat free frozen yogurt, and lean cuisines. Oh, and turkey sandwiches on white bread with miracle whip. But I was a stickler about that 10 grams. 

 

Since then, my best weight loss is low carb, but I've never really tried super low fat again either. Interesting. 

 

You know, I think another big reason that low fat and low carb both work for many people is that so much of the hyper-palatable processed food that is so easy to eat large quantities of without even looking (hello potato chips, my kryptonite!) is high in both. So if you're cutting out either fat or carbs, there are just a tremendous number of foods that are off limits. Furthermore, cutting them out reduces variety, which again reduces consumption.

 

I mean, I could live on a diet of potatoes and milk and butter as peasants did in many areas. But I would be eating because I was hungry and not because "Oh man, another potato sounds really good right about now!" 

 

One of the things that makes weight control in the modern age really hard is that, on a daily basis, we can access so many things that used to be Sunday roast dinner only, if that -- and in some places festival foods only. 

[Soror]

How has it been going lately?

Hello :) It has been going ok. I'm honestly not checking every day and every meal b/c I get tired of poking myself. 

 

Overall my response is improved over where it was, why I don't know. Before I rarely, rarely got below 100 fasting, unless I was really kept my carbs low. One night I checked in the middle of the night and I was sub 100- can remember exactly, when I got up I was 10+ pts higher, that isn't surprising though b/c I know I've had dawn phenomenon going on for awhile. I'd be curious to know if on the mornings when I'm lower am I not having dawn phenomenon or is it still that low after the dawn phenomenon raises. My sleep has been all over the map though(various reasons). 

 

I sometimes have 100+ fasting but last several I check- 98, 93 86 and 115. 

 

re: protein- I've never lacked for protein, which is what led me to finally try lowering protein as I know excess protein can be converted to glucose. 

 

I honestly don't know that my current lower levels have anything to do w/ diet. I'm not sure I can see a connection. I know before if I went sub 50 I could get optimal fasting levels- but otherwise they were pretty much 100+. Things seemed to have changed since I was sick, it seems I need less thyroid medicine too. I'm due to get a bunch of things rechecked, I'm not really sure what is going on, rather interesting/confusing!