Christopher Buckley comes out for Obama

[Confuzzled]

That was a very interesting article.

 

What struck me is that he wasn't so much pro-Obama as he was anti-McCain. I would have liked to read more of what he likes about Obama, rather than what he doesn't like about McCain. Although, I do agree with his summary of McCain's shift in character.

 

Kris

[kokotg]

If Obama wins I really do wish him success, for all of our sakes as well as his. I just can't see it. I see a Jimmy Carter....

 

This is interesting...I actually heard more than one Hillary Clinton supporter compare Obama to Carter during the primaries--an idealist who can't get things done. I don't think so, but I do understand that perception and see why people think that way. I agree (with Mom to Aly) that Carter is a brilliant and always well-intentioned guy, but I don't think he was a great president. I don't think his personality was suited to the kind of constant compromise and give and take the presidency calls for. He has a great mind, but I don't know that he has a great political mind.

 

Quote from conservative columnist David Brooks the other day:

 

Obama has the great intellect. I was interviewing Obama a couple years ago, and I'm getting nowhere with the interview, it's late in the night, he's on the phone, walking off the Senate floor, he's cranky. Out of the blue I say, 'Ever read a guy named Reinhold Niebuhr?' And he says, 'Yeah.' So i say, 'What did Niebuhr mean to you?' For the next 20 minutes, he gave me a perfect description of Reinhold Niebuhr's thought, which is a very subtle thought process based on the idea that you have to use power while it corrupts you. And I was dazzled, I felt the tingle up my knee as Chris Matthews would say.

 

And the other thing that does separate Obama from just a pure intellectual: he has tremendous powers of social perception. And this is why he's a politician, not an academic. A couple of years ago, I was writing columns attacking the Republican congress for spending too much money. And I throw in a few sentences attacking the Democrats to make myself feel better. And one morning I get an email from Obama saying, 'David, if you wanna attack us, fine, but you're only throwing in those sentences to make yourself feel better.' And it was a perfect description of what was going through my mind. And everybody who knows Obama all have these stories to tell about his capacity for social perception.

 

The second paragraph is, I think, the evidence that Obama is not likely to be another Carter. He has a political mind. Carter's the "pure intellectual" --he couldn't have been president in another time--he was a product of a post-Watergate election. Obama, I think, is one of a handful of politicians not dependent on circumstances that way.

[Danestress]

Okay, I don't care who Brad Pitt is going to vote for. Or other entertainers. At all.

 

But I do actually care what economists on both sides think - and I want to understand why they draw the opinions that they do. I also listen to what journalists and political commentators say. I'm not saying there is some one I listen to that I just follow. But I have been undecided in this election for a long time, and while I don't have the time to read as deeply as I might like, I do want to know what those who are better educated, wiser, and more experienced than I think - both those who are conservative and those who are liberal.

 

I actually read the posts on this board that are thoughtful and informed. There is a lot of blathering nonsense out there (and here, for sure) and I feel safe ignoring it. But I am actually deeply curious about what people think. Sometimes I see someone with a "McCain" bumper sticker or and "Obama" sign in their yard, and I am really tempted to start asking question. "Why are you voting for him? Are you at all worried about XYZ? What to you say to people who say the following ...."

[Jenny in Atl]

Okay, I don't care who Brad Pitt is going to vote for. Or other entertainers. At all.

 

But I do actually care what economists on both sides think - and I want to understand why they draw the opinions that they do. I also listen to what journalists and political commentators say. I'm not saying there is some one I listen to that I just follow. But I have been undecided in this election for a long time, and while I don't have the time to read as deeply as I might like, I do want to know what those who are better educated, wiser, and more experienced than I think - both those who are conservative and those who are liberal.

 

 

 

Here is an article about a recent poll of economist and their views on the two.. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/16/dilbert.economy/index.html

[Stacy in NJ]

Jimmy Carter was a great president? Well.......alrightly then.

 

Christopher also gave an interview on Uncommon Knowledge at National Review Online where he further explains his view point. If your interested go to nronline.com

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

just another journalist being swayed by the obama god mentality

 

Ouch.

[Elaine]

Does anyone actually care who journalists, economists, musicians, or actors endorse or vote?! Really? I don't care if Oprah prefers Obama, McCain, or writes herself in as a candidate. Who thinks so highly of themselves to believe they can personally sway other voters? (Am I missing the proverbial boat on this?) I'm waving the "McCain/Palin" flag because I'm terrified of the alternative. If I were a non-political public figure it would be different.

 

But, Tracey, if they don't tell us, how will we ever vote?;)

 

Did you happen to catch the clip of Madonna on O'Reilly the other night? She is one repulsive woman.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

But, Tracey, if they don't tell us, how will we ever vote?;)

 

Did you happen to catch the clip of Madonna on O'Reilly the other night? She is one repulsive woman.

 

Well, I would weigh the opinion of, say, Warren Buffet and the opinion of Madonna quite differently. One I would consider. The other? Not so much, really.

[laylamcb]

 

I will say I sure miss WFB, he was a singular fellow.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:, Bill. Like him or not, he was unique and will be missed. :001_smile:

[Osmosis Mom]

You see, though, I thought it was hilarious, and I know you would have had it been anyone else! The person being investigated, the day before a decision is made, saying "I held my own investigation and I found myself innocent!"?? It wasn't McCain saying it--it was HER!!! Please tell me that wasn't funny?

 

Also, I can't believe the names the dems are called here! Obama's "god mentality"? Saying it is good WFB is dead? (sorry, not trying to pick on anyone--those are the only ones I can think of at the moment) If I had posted something like that, you would have villified me--I put a smilie and said it was hilarious that she declared herself innocent! Which it is! (you know it is!;))

 

And, for the record--I don't hate her! Hate is not a word I use freely. I don't think she is even close to qualified, I think she operates with bias, dirty politics, I disagree with every stance that she has taken, but hate is not a word I would ever use for her--I hate Hitler, and what he did--I dislike her politics, and would be terrified of her ever having a position of power in this country.

 

I totally agree with you.

[Zelda]

Well, I would weigh the opinion of, say, Warren Buffet and the opinion of Madonna quite differently. One I would consider. The other? Not so much, really.

 

:lol:

 

Okay, but what about Jimmy Buffet and Madonna?

[Kelli in TN]

Okay, I don't care who Brad Pitt is going to vote for. Or other entertainers. At all.

 

But I do actually care what economists on both sides think - and I want to understand why they draw the opinions that they do. I also listen to what journalists and political commentators say. I'm not saying there is some one I listen to that I just follow. But I have been undecided in this election for a long time, and while I don't have the time to read as deeply as I might like, I do want to know what those who are better educated, wiser, and more experienced than I think - both those who are conservative and those who are liberal.

 

I actually read the posts on this board that are thoughtful and informed. There is a lot of blathering nonsense out there (and here, for sure) and I feel safe ignoring it. But I am actually deeply curious about what people think. Sometimes I see someone with a "McCain" bumper sticker or and "Obama" sign in their yard, and I am really tempted to start asking question. "Why are you voting for him? Are you at all worried about XYZ? What to you say to people who say the following ...."

 

Um....me too. I am overwhelmed by the information available and I would have to stop living my life to have time to try and sort it all out. So I am interested in the opinions of people who are respectable.

[kokotg]

:lol:

 

Okay, but what about Jimmy Buffet and Madonna?

 

I've got some relatives who would probably vote for anyone Jimmy Buffet told them to :D (I have an uncle who actually has a "Jimmy Buffet room" in his house)

[Plucky]

That's doesn't surprise me. Jimmy Buffet is way, way cooler than Madonna. :)

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

:lol:

 

Okay, but what about Jimmy Buffet and Madonna?

 

Great. Now I want a margarita. :glare:

 

 

:lol:

[nmoira]

Great. Now I want a margarita. :glare:

 

 

:lol:

So do I, but this election season I'm scared I might not be able to stop at one. :D

[Tracey in TX]

But, Tracey, if they don't tell us, how will we ever vote?;)

 

Did you happen to catch the clip of Madonna on O'Reilly the other night? She is one repulsive woman.

Ya' know, I just might vote for you :)

And, no, I didn't see Madonna. I try to avoid her like STDs. (oops, did I just say that?!) Sorry Bill O', but certain guests are the reason we have remote control and mute buttons!

[Melissa in FL]

Responding to moira and Pammy's posts

 

Here's some possible voter...manipulation: a county in New York sent out absentee ballots with Obama's name as Barack Osama. It also happened in Florida during the primaries.

 

If voters cross out and spell it correctly, will the vote still count? If voters vote for Barack Osama, will that count, as that exact person doesn't exist?

 

Common sense can tell you that the people who do either of those things are obviously voting for Obama. But common sense does not always prevail in the world of politics, particularly when an election is at stake.

 

 

Perhaps this is an s/o topic.

 

Just to let you know in the article I read about herehttp://www.rr.com/view/content/story.cfm?storyId=5981750&view=HOME&newsgroup=9000&sSect=HOM_1 It was a Dem and Rep that sent these out. They have corrected the problem and sent new ones out. Either the miss spelled ballet or the new one will be counted in November, whichever the voter returns. You are casting mud when there is no one to throw it at.

Melissa

[Jugglin'5]

So do I, but this election season I'm scared I might not be able to stop at one. :D

 

Well there's something we can all do in a kumbayah moment while hoping the other person's candidate doesn't RUIN AMERIKA FOREVER or turn it into a socialist or fascist or whatever hellhole:D - drink margaritas together. My DH makes the world's best.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Well there's something we can all do in a kumbayah moment while hoping the other person's candidate doesn't RUIN AMERIKA FOREVER or turn it into a socialist or fascist or whatever hellhole:D - drink margaritas together. My DH makes the world's best.

 

Since Zelda posted her thread, all I REALLY want to do is share some margaritas and sing... something... with everyone.

 

Sigh.

 

Even though I'll probably propose a toast to Mr. Buckley. And I'll drink to whomever ya'll want.

[Zelda]

Since Zelda posted her thread, all I REALLY want to do is share some margaritas and sing... something... with everyone.

 

Sigh.

 

Even though I'll probably propose a toast to Mr. Buckley. And I'll drink to whomever ya'll want.

 

Tequila really is the bridge.

 

:cheers2:

[Jugglin'5]

Since Zelda posted her thread, all I REALLY want to do is share some margaritas and sing... something... with everyone.

 

Sigh.

 

Even though I'll probably propose a toast to Mr. Buckley. And I'll drink to whomever ya'll want.

 

searching for my lost shaker of salt....

[Vida Winter]

Since Zelda posted her thread, all I REALLY want to do is share some margaritas and sing... something... with everyone.

 

Sigh.

 

Even though I'll probably propose a toast to Mr. Buckley. And I'll drink to whomever ya'll want.

 

I'd love to drink margaritas with you. And I'll toast WFB, who is no doubt rolling in his grave. ;)

 

~Dana

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'd love to drink margaritas with you. And I'll toast WFB, who is no doubt rolling in his grave. ;)

 

~Dana

 

We shall discuss which DIRECTION he's rolling while drinking a raspberry margarita. I can have a little umbrella in a margarita, right? I'll poke you with it if you disagree with me too vehemently.

 

:cheers2:

Edited October 11, 2008 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Plucky]

You guys are cracking me up. I just quit drinking, but when dh and I would have a glass or two of wine we always seemed to be able to solve the world's problems. I mean we knew it all! LOL

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

searching for my lost shaker of salt....

 

[Vida Winter]

We shall discuss which DIRECTION he's rolling while drinking a raspberry margarita. I can have a little umbrella in a margarita, right? I'll poke you with it if you disagree with me too vehemently.

 

:cheers2:

 

Nope, no directional talk allowed. Anything more controversial than the color I'm planning on painting my toenails is off limits.

[Jugglin'5]

We shall discuss which DIRECTION he's rolling while drinking a raspberry margarita. I can have a little umbrella in a margarita, right? I'll poke you with it if you disagree with me too vehemently.

 

:cheers2:

 

Keep your raspberry outta my margarita...them's fighting words! Now a sangria swirl margarita - that's different.:)

[Jugglin'5]

 

 

Some people say that there's a woman to blame, but I know.....

[Peek a Boo]

I found it interesting that the son of America's (arguably) most important figure in the conservative movement (and no liberal himself) has joined a growing group of conservatives coming out for Mr Obama.

 

Any thoughts? :tongue_smilie:

 

Bill (who is shamelessly trying to get this thread back on-topic)

 

um.... thoughts?

thoughts thoughts thoughts.....

reaching....stretching....

 

thought!

 

Howabout: the acorn that fell from the tree was really a nut that got carried off by a squirrel?

 

:D :lol:

[Peek a Boo]

G.C. Lichtenberg wrote, "The most dangerous of all falsehoods is a slightly distorted truth."

 

:D

 

 

All Generalizations are False.

 

:D

[cricket1178]

Exactly. Shs seems like a nice enough person, other than the fact that she thinks killing animals is entertainment. But I disagree with her on pretty much every issue. And the fact that she is being promoted as "one of us" doesn't impress me. Personally, I want leaders whom I believe are more intelligent, better informed, better educated and more qualfied than I am to run my country. And, after everything I've read--even the positive stuff that's been posted here--I don't believe any of that is true of Ms. Palin.

 

I don't hate her. I don't know her well enough to hate her. I just don't want her in a position to affect my life.

 

I don't know how to post multiple quotes, but most everything you said about Palin is how I feel about Obama. He's nice enough, I just disagree with his politics. Palin is more educated and more qualified than I am to run this country, but she won't be the one in the big White House if elected McCain will. I only state this because I think is ironic how Palin is continually compared to Obama in the Media.

[Parabola]

Just to let you know in the article I read about herehttp://www.rr.com/view/content/story.cfm?storyId=5981750&view=HOME&newsgroup=9000&sSect=HOM_1 It was a Dem and Rep that sent these out. They have corrected the problem and sent new ones out. Either the miss spelled ballet or the new one will be counted in November, whichever the voter returns. You are casting mud when there is no one to throw it at.

Melissa

 

I am not slinging mud. I also saw that both dems and reps apologized, etc. This is already a very heated election, its probably going to get much more contentious in the days to come. I wonder what part things like this will play in the coming weeks.

[Elaine]

Well, I would weigh the opinion of, say, Warren Buffet and the opinion of Madonna quite differently. One I would consider. The other? Not so much, really.

 

I was joking. DId you think that I ws serious?

[ma23peas]

um.... thoughts?

thoughts thoughts thoughts.....

reaching....stretching....

 

thought!

 

Howabout: the acorn that fell from the tree was really a nut that got carried off by a squirrel?

 

:D :lol:

 

Did someone mention ACORN? :auto::willy_nilly::w00t: = :leaving:

 

 

Tara

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't know how to post multiple quotes, but most everything you said about Palin is how I feel about Obama. He's nice enough, I just disagree with his politics.

 

And that's an entirely legitimate and respectable position.

 

Palin is more educated and more qualified than I am to run this country, but she won't be the one in the big White House if elected McCain will. I only state this because I think is ironic how Palin is continually compared to Obama in the Media.

 

Well, not to toot my own horn, but Palin is not better educated or, as far as I can tell, smarter or more capable than I am. So, I remain unimpressed.

 

And, since (aside from breaking tie votes now and then) the only real job a vice president has is to step in in case the president dies, I do think it's valid to consider a VP candidate's qualifications for that office. Also, I did not compare Palin to Obama. I think the reason that gets done sometimes is because they are quite clearly the two most charismatic and interesting people in the race. And, whichever way the election goes, it will be either Palin or Obama who makes history.

 

Obviously, the most meaningful comparison would be Palin versus Biden, but I'm afraid she loses that one in my book, too.

 

I do truly believe that intelligent, thoughtful, good-hearted people can simply disagree. I just wish the discussions on these boards reflected that more often.

[Peek a Boo]

Well, not to toot my own horn, but Palin is not better educated or, as far as I can tell, smarter or more capable than I am. So, I remain unimpressed..

 

and of course, "better educated, smarter, and more capable" are all in the eye of the beholder ;)

 

but honestly? I do see a lot of discussion where people "just" disagree. There's always a few that hit the 'lotsa heated debate" extreme, but those aren't really the norm.

 

 

I think the reason that gets done sometimes is because they are quite clearly the two most charismatic and interesting people in the race.

 

i think the reason they are compared thusly is because the other two are old-timers, whereas both Palin and Obama are relative newbies to the political scene. new blood vs old blood ;)

[kokotg]

I do truly believe that intelligent, thoughtful, good-hearted people can simply disagree. I just wish the discussions on these boards reflected that more often.

 

You know, I was starting to feel that way until last night when my mother interrupted our agreed upon political cease-fire with an e-mail forward. This set off a brief and incredibly frustrating back and forth that made me once again thankful for the level of discourse this board (very often) produces.

[Jenny in Atl]

 

I do truly believe that intelligent, thoughtful, good-hearted people can simply disagree. I just wish the discussions on these boards reflected that more often.

 

I think in person conversations and relationships bring this about better than on-line semi-anonymous ones. I've always had friends who disagreed strongly with me about all sorts of topics, but we always had some sort of connection (homeschooling, breastfeeding/parenting, etc) that superseded the rest. I know many of us say things here we would never say to each other in person (me included) when things get heated or we are discussing a "hot" topic.

 

That said, I waited in line for almost two hours yesterday to vote. We have early voting in GA and the polls have been packed! It was humbling to see all of us (supporters of McCain, Obama, Barr, write-ins, young, old, all creeds and colors, faiths and non) suffer through the line in peace, with good humor, smiles, and care for each other. In a few weeks this will all be over (I hope) and we can get back to the business of supporting each other, no matter our world view, as we all work to homeschool our kids.

[5kidsforME]

I think in person conversations and relationships bring this about better than on-line semi-anonymous ones. I've always had friends who disagreed strongly with me about all sorts of topics, but we always had some sort of connection (homeschooling, breastfeeding/parenting, etc) that superseded the rest. I know many of us say things here we would never say to each other in person (me included) when things get heated or we are discussing a "hot" topic.

 

That said, I waited in line for almost two hours yesterday to vote. We have early voting in GA and the polls have been packed! It was humbling to see all of us (supporters of McCain, Obama, Barr, write-ins, young, old, all creeds and colors, faiths and non) suffer through the line in peace, with good humor, smiles, and care for each other. In a few weeks this will all be over (I hope) and we can get back to the business of supporting each other, no matter our world view, as we all work to homeschool our kids.

 

 

Very Nicely said Jenny!! :001_smile:

[Apiphobic]

Ok, I've gotta ask: what is the deep meaning behind your avatar?

 

The Well-Trained Mind Forums (aka Hive Mind)

 

apiphobia: The word "apiphobia" comes from "api-" from the Greek "apis" meaning bee + "phobia" from the Greek "phobos" meaning fear = literally, fear (of) bee(s).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I was joking. DId you think that I ws serious?

 

Not REALLY serious. But you were answering about about not caring what economists or actors had to say about the candidates. I was just mentioning that I *do* listen to what economists say. Read. Whatever. But I couldn't tell you the last time I've seen Madonna or read anything she said.

 

:001_smile:

Edited October 12, 2008 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN
:blink:

[OnTheBrink]

Does anyone actually care who journalists, economists, musicians, or actors endorse or vote?! Really? I don't care if Oprah prefers Obama, McCain, or writes herself in as a candidate. Who thinks so highly of themselves to believe they can personally sway other voters? (Am I missing the proverbial boat on this?) I'm waving the "McCain/Palin" flag because I'm terrified of the alternative. If I were a non-political public figure it would be different.

 

I almost started a thread on this very thing. WHO CARES? I'm absolutely NOT concerned with who anyone else votes for. If anyone votes based on what someone else thinks, that's a sad commentary on their ability to think, period.

 

And, I'm not waving a flag for anyone, yet. I know it won't be for Obama, I'm pretty sure it won't be for McCain, but I can't decide if I want to vote FOR someone, knowing they have a snowball's chance in Arizona to win, or if I want to simply vote against someone whom I don't want in there at all.