Have any of you NOT used a spelling program?

[nature girl]

So this may make some of you run in circles waving your fists in the air, but...growing up, I don't remember ever being taught spelling rules (other than the most basic "i before e" type), I just remember being given lists to memorize each week, and I'm a pretty good speller in spite of that, the rules just seemed to be absorbed through osmosis from reading rather than through explicit teaching. I'm guessing this was true for most people in ps back then, probably even for ps kids today (not that kids today can spell...) Certain letter combinations just look right/wrong. So is it really necessary?

 

I've been looking at various spelling programs for next year (I know DD is young but she'll be 7 in Sept. and her spelling now is pretty atrocious so I wanted to see what was out there), and they all seem so incredibly boring. She has ADHD, and just doesn't put up with worksheets or anything monotonous. Looking at AAS or Apples and Pears makes my eyes roll up into my head too, I'm not looking forward to trying to shove a program like this down her throat. (If there's actually a fun program out there, please let me know!)

 

So I'm wondering, is it enough to just talk about the spelling in the sentences she writes? Today she wrote "She wint to the prc." If I go over the words with her, explain the reasons behind adding the a and switching the c for k, and then go over a couple of similar words asking her to correct spelling, is that enough?

 

(I actually don't think she'll be able to absorb rules-based spelling. It's just not the way her mind works, she's not at all analytical. I realize that may change as she gets older, 6 is too young for spelling and I'm not going to do much with her yet, but I just can't imagine that she'll be the type who can ever think of rules as she's scribbling down her stories, her brain is just too all over the place.)

[featherhead]

Have you looked at Spelling You See? It might be a better fit for you. I'm planning to use it in fall with my 7 and 9 year olds.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I used a curriculum with one and nothing at all with the other.  No difference.  It was pretty  much a waste of time.

 

I used Spelling Workout.  There really aren't rules like you are imagining.  It mostly points out a pattern which of course has all kinds of exceptions.  Words are grouped by a specific pattern.  The most common "rules" are often touched upon in grammar programs too.

 

If you aren't seeing signs of issues with spelling, you could get away with using nothing.  Some people do have a very hard time with spelling and I think they do benefit from some intensive instruction, but not like what I mentioned above. 

 

 

[HomeAgain]

We have tried many spelling programs over the years, and what is working with my youngest is not a spelling program, but copywork and dictation.  He copies complex sentences to learn patterns and composition.  He does simple dictation exercises (right now working through Dictation Day By Day) to apply what he knows.  I do point out spelling rules to him - at first they were on the mini white board for him to refer to, but now I tell him for corrections before he rewrites it.

 

And, I would suggest getting a set of red/blue magnetic letters or letter tiles.  Going over consonants/vowels is very helpful at this age, and having them build their words with the very visual method of the letters is helpful for them to see when they omit red (vowels) or need to see the rule applied (like silent e or 'two vowels go a'walkin..").

[nature girl]

I looked at Spelling You See briefly when it first came out (but she was much too young then.) I'll have to look again...but I remember trying to figure out whether it would actually work for spelling. It actually seems like it's doing what you're saying, HomeAgain, and what I was saying in my OP, teaching through reading and writing rather than words. I'll have to look for reviews here, see whether it's working for people, but it's definitely worth considering. Might not be quite as boring. :)

 

And, I would suggest getting a set of red/blue magnetic letters or letter tiles.  Going over consonants/vowels is very helpful at this age, and having them build their words with the very visual method of the letters is helpful for them to see when they omit red (vowels) or need to see the rule applied (like silent e or 'two vowels go a'walkin..").

 

This is a great idea, thank you! (ETA, especially since forgetting to include a vowel is the most common error for her these days...)

Edited March 4, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[Ellie]

So this may make some of you run in circles waving your fists in the air, but...growing up, I don't remember ever being taught spelling rules (other than the most basic "i before e" type), I just remember being given lists to memorize each week, and I'm a pretty good speller in spite of that, the rules just seemed to be absorbed through osmosis from reading rather than through explicit teaching. I'm guessing this was true for most people in ps back then, probably even for ps kids today (not that kids today can spell...) Certain letter combinations just look right/wrong. So is it really necessary?

 

I've been looking at various spelling programs for next year (I know DD is young but she'll be 7 in Sept. and her spelling now is pretty atrocious so I wanted to see what was out there), and they all seem so incredibly boring. She has ADHD, and just doesn't put up with worksheets or anything monotonous. Looking at AAS or Apples and Pears makes my eyes roll up into my head too, I'm not looking forward to trying to shove a program like this down her throat. (If there's actually a fun program out there, please let me know!)

 

So I'm wondering, is it enough to just talk about the spelling in the sentences she writes? Today she wrote "She wint to the prc." If I go over the words with her, explain the reasons behind adding the a and switching the c for k, and then go over a couple of similar words asking her to correct spelling, is that enough?

 

(I actually don't think she'll be able to absorb rules-based spelling. It's just not the way her mind works, she's not at all analytical. I realize that may change as she gets older, 6 is too young for spelling and I'm not going to do much with her yet, but I just can't imagine that she'll be the type who can ever think of rules as she's scribbling down her stories, her brain is just too all over the place.)

 

Some children who are very visual don't need much in the way of formal spelling instruction. Your daughter might be one of those. You might have been one of those. I was. :-)

 

Most children, though, will benefit from more direct, specific spelling instruction. Only you can know which group your dd falls in.

[Holly]

We also teach spelling through copywork and prepared dictation.  We use a variety of sources for copywork and start Spelling Wisdom in the 4th grade.  My oldest is a natural speller, so I felt like her time was better used elsewhere.  We tried R&S spelling for a couple months and it was taking up 30 minutes per day, which was a huge portion of her school day at the time (it was in 3rd or 4th grade).  

 

DS is not a natural speller, so I wondered if this method would work with him or not.  It's been amazing to see how much his spelling has improved over the last two years!  I do hear about moms with children who need formal spelling (and I don't doubt that they do), but I've seen great improvements in my DC's spelling without anything formal.  

[KeriJ]

We use R&S for 2nd-4th grade.  We just work through about a page per day.  We don't do tests or anything other than the exercises.  I like it because I think it helps them visualize correct spelling and see patterns.(as well as learn to carefully follow directions) For us, it only takes about 10 minutes a day. Around 5th grade, we switch to just dictation.

[Guest]

R&S finally helped my oldest but he was older when I had him go through it.

It is where I would suggest you start. On the upside, it is cheap.

Apples and Pears at a page a day is not so bad. I'm doing that with my girl.

 

 

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[maize]

Some kids are natural spellers and pick up what they need just by reading.

 

Other kids aren't.

 

Whether you need a spelling program or not may depend on which kind of kid you are teaching :)

[nature girl]

Some kids are natural spellers and pick up what they need just by reading.

 

Other kids aren't.

 

Whether you need a spelling program or not may depend on which kind of kid you are teaching :)

 

I guess I'll have to figure this out as we go along...Right now her spelling is pretty awful, but on the other hand she seems to have picked up a number of spellings of more common words just by picturing the words in her head (she's definitely VSL.) So maybe that means she'll naturally be able to pick up some of the rules as well by seeing when words look wrong. On the other hand (just thinking aloud here), years ago she would write "u" as a word instead of "a," and still does this when she's not thinking, it's like "u" has started to look correct to her...So if she's learning this way, I'll have to make sure incorrect spellings don't become a habit.

[maize]

She's young, I don't think it will hurt to wait and see how things progress. Lots of reading is how natural spellers learn, and that takes time.

[EmilyGF]

Waiting and seeing is reasonable for a not-yet-7.

 

FWIW, my kids became "natural spellers" by using the appropriate spelling program - the program that taught words the way they thought helped them to begin noticing spelling in their reading and to internalize spelling while reading. So they end up learning not just the words in their program, but many many other words.

 

Sometimes what we as moms like, though, is very different than what works well for our kids. 

 

Emily

[MrsWeasley]

I think a very visual kid with a good phonics background from reading instruction might not need explicit spelling instruction. How is her reading coming along? I've heard that many kids spelling will catch up with their reading around eight years of age. This didn't happen with my eldest, though.

Edited March 4, 2016 by MrsWeasley

[madteaparty]

We do not use a spelling program and don't explicitly teach grammar either. DS writes well, that's one of his strengths.

[nature girl]

I think a very visual kid with a good phonics background from reading instruction might not need explicit spelling instruction. How is her reading coming along? I've heard that many kids spelling will catch up with their reading around eight years of age. This didn't happen with my eldest, though.

 

She's reading at around a late-3rd, early 4th grade level, so doing pretty well. We didn't do much phonics instruction actually, other than covering phonemes when they came up while she read. (She started sounding out words on her own very early, we did I See Sam and Progressive Phonics for a little while, and then her reading just took off.) So she was a natural reader, although she does still stumble at times. Maybe that's a sign spelling will be the same way for her? I don't know, one can always hope...

 

The more I think of it, the more I think dictation might be the way to go, along with very basic instruction using her own writing. Just a few minutes ago I wrote out "wint" and "went" and "prc," "parc" and "park" for her (the words she'd misspelled this morning), and asked her which she thought were correct, and she chose the correct spellings without hesitation. So in an hour or so, I'll have her try to rewrite the words, and then maybe correct her own sentence, see what happens. I could imagine making that into a game...she might go for that.

[HS Mom in NC]

It  really varies from kid to kid.  My oldest was a voracious reader and very visual, so she didn't need a program because she could see when a word didn't look right and then apply phonics rules by process of elimination until she hit on the right letter combination, like looking up a word in the dictionary that you don't know how to spell. 

My middle was a poor speller until we started working with word family groups like Natural Speller does.

My youngest is a very parts to whole learner and fairly visual, so I mark the words she misspells, she applies her phonics rules by process of elimination to look it up in the dictionary for the correct spelling and she writes it out broken down into syllables with the "tricky" letters in a very bright color and the letters she got right in pencil.

For example, she made the mistake "importent."  So she had to try different things to find it in the dictionary (possibly an i, a, or u depending on how each person pronounces the word.) When she found it she copied it as it's broken down im*por*tant with the a in the last syllable written in a bright purple ink.  The other letters were in the regular grey of a typical pencil.

She copies them 5 times each every day for a week in the broken up syllables and the 2 colors and we test at the end of the week and systematically review through a rotation those she learned previously.  We focus on getting things into long term memory, not dumping them after a week or two.

It's worth noting that a kid who hasn't used a thorough, systematic phonics program can be at a serious spelling disadvantage if they're not able to visualize words naturally.  They'll also be bewildered and helpless if they ask how to spell a word and you say, "Look it up in the dictionary to find out." To avoid this problem, don't use phonic programs that are sight word heavy.  There are very few true sight words ( a handful at most, and no, "the" is not a sight word, it's phonetically regular because it includes the soft th sound and the uh sound that many a letter e makes) and what many programs call "exceptions" are simply ignored rules.  "Ai" says the long a sound as in pain, main, stain, grain AND it says the short e sound as in mountain, fountain, chair, captain, vinaigrette, stair, Renaissance, again, and so on. Plaid, in which ai makes a short a sound, is one of those rare exceptions to rules.

[Holly]

We use R&S for 2nd-4th grade.  We just work through about a page per day.  We don't do tests or anything other than the exercises.  I like it because I think it helps them visualize correct spelling and see patterns.(as well as learn to carefully follow directions) For us, it only takes about 10 minutes a day. Around 5th grade, we switch to just dictation.

 

Wow!  DD was spending at least 20-30 minutes a day.  Not including the time I spent re-writing the words because she couldn't read their cursive font.  We could have stuck with it for 10 minutes a day.  

[Lecka]

I think picking up reading easily and picking up spelling easily go together for a lot of kids. She sounds like she may be one of them.

 

For her age and examples, she sounds like a natural speller at age 6 to me.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with the others, this depends on the kid.  I was a voracious reader, moved 30 times so had VERY inconsistent spelling instruction, and at times NO spelling instruction, and still did pretty well in my spelling, just sort of picking it up through exposure to lots of written material and writing assignments and writing out things I had interest in (like creating my own card catalog for my books and wanting the cards to have correct spelling when I was 12).

 

My kids are both dyslexic but DS actually got 100s on his spelling tests just by rote memorizing all those lists.  However, he could not apply those memorized lists to his writing.  DD struggled with spelling all the way through 5th grade.  We wasted YEARS trying to rote memorize list after list with NO retention long term and frequently not even retention the day of the test.  Phonics based instruction turned their spelling around.  Wish I had known there was another way to learn how to spell besides rote memorizing lists.  I could have saved us all a lot of grief, stress and sorrow.

[daijobu]

Sequential Spelling is all words lists with no rules.  At least, not explicitly.  The word lists have many words grouped together that demonstrate a pattern.  So you might see a word list like:

 

light

bright

sight

etc.

 

The next day's word list includes:

 

lights

brights

sights

etc.  

 

It kind of drives home the point by illustration.  I like to call it the spelling curriculum for moms who aren't sure they want to do spelling.  I also like that there are frequent placement tests so as your child gets the hang of spelling, they can skip big chunks of the book.  It's a nice feeling!  

[calihil]

Pretty sure that's how Charlotte Mason taught spelling. Copywork for the first several years and then dictation. Correct immediately when words are misspelled. Look into it.

[ShariM]

I'm using Phonics Pathways, the reading program, as a spelling program too.  I dictate the words and when the sentences come up I dictate those too. But I have them sounding each letter or letters as they write it, so they are aware of the sounds that are associated with what they write. Phonics Pathways covers phonics rules that can be spelling patterns too. So far it's working. Things can get complicated, like the long e sound being spelled with ee and ea. But I listed the homophones that are in the book that use those spellings and we covered them with sentences for a while until he could spell the right word just by hearing it's use in a sentence. This was an easy way for me to cover spelling without adding another purchase that may or may not be needed.

 

[purpleowl]

Both of my DDs seem to be pretty natural spellers. I correct their spelling as we go, talking about phonics rules and etymologies as appropriate. I had DD#1 doing weekly spelling lists for a while last school year, but she found them tedious and didn't really seem to need them, so we dropped them. DD#2 is benefiting from being the second child, since Mommy has already learned that it's okay to skip formal spelling instruction. ;)

[Hunter]

I'm too tired to write more.

 

Read Ruth Beechick's The Three R's. Many libraries have it, but if not, it is worth owning.