daijobu Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Okay, experienced moms and anyone else who wants to chime in, here's my situation. I have a dd14 and a dd13 (1.5 years apart). The issue is with the older dd. She isn't very nice to her father, DH. He's a really nice guy, involved father, not prone to anger, quite patient, really quite faultless. My only (very minor complaint) is maybe, maybe, he still treats her as a child. But not deserving of dd14's scorn. She eye rolls him, disputes his statements, disregards his advice, and is generally not nice. No smiles in his presence. Kind of like the sullen mean teenagers you see on TV comedies. But she's very nice and chummy with me. It's very obvious who her favorite is. I've made some attempts to back up DH, but there's been no change in her behavior and I want to step up my game a bit. I'm feeling guilty that I'm not doing enough. What can I do to help change their relationship? Or should I just wait for her to grow out of it? Should I be more punitive or at least explicitly call her on it (in private), or can I do something more surreptitious (my preference)? I'm eager to read your suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 What does DH think? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Since your DH is the adult in the relationship, I would let him work it out himself. But I would recommend that you get yourself out of the middle of it. The "nice and chummy" thing here would be an attempt to divide and conquer - trying to play DH and I against each other. When she turns on the "oh so sweet" just tell her you aren't impressed because she is rude to her dad. Then step away and let them work it out. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 What does DH think? Good question! I haven't asked him lately--I will tonight--but I'm betting he would appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 But I would recommend that you get yourself out of the middle of it. The "nice and chummy" thing here would be an attempt to divide and conquer - trying to play DH and I against each other. When she turns on the "oh so sweet" just tell her you aren't impressed because she is rude to her dad. Then step away and let them work it out. Yes, this. I don't want her thinking she is being successful at this. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd rather leave it too, but I'd want to get the point across that she's being a jerk to my husband for no good reason and I'm uncool with that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Since your DH is the adult in the relationship, I would let him work it out himself. But I would recommend that you get yourself out of the middle of it. The "nice and chummy" thing here would be an attempt to divide and conquer - trying to play DH and I against each other. When she turns on the "oh so sweet" just tell her you aren't impressed because she is rude to her dad. Then step away and let them work it out. But the thing is, I do let him have his own conversations with her. But at the dinner table, I usually don't step up to defend him. I'm silent. I'm wondering if I should be more explicit in my support for him? Or maybe I should be more punitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd rather leave it too, but I'd want to get the point across that she's being a jerk to my husband for no good reason and I'm uncool with that. Yes, this is a conversation that needs to happen. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Before you start speaking up at dinner time, you want to be sure you've got the line right between lively debate and being a jerk. It's pretty easy for teens to feel they're not allowed to have any opinions and they can't say anything in an acceptable way. I dont' have a teen daughter yet, but most likely I'd say "You're treating my husband crappily for not good reason. We aren't friends at the moment so nick off. If you want to repair the friendship here, you'd better go make up with your dad." Edited December 30, 2015 by Rosie_0801 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't think punitive will help but maybe the three of you could try talking it out. Could you ask her how she thinks he feels when she treats him with a lack of respect while treating you well? Discuss the specific things you and your DH find unacceptable and ask her why she feels the need to do those things? Or maybe turn it around and ask her how she would feel if you treated her the same way she treats her dad but you treated your other daughter really well? I do think being firm (but not punitive) and clear about your expectations for her behavior might be better than just ignoring the issue. Maybe point out her inappropriate bahavior as it happens, in a very calm, firm voice. Maybe give her a warning comment then if she continues ask her to excuse herself from the room if she cannot treat her father with respect. Not in anger. Just make it clear that she is loved and her presence is welcome but if she is struggling to treat a family member with respect and kindness then she may need some private time to process through her thoughts to figure out why she is treating him so badly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnMyOwn Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Have you asked her if she is aware of the bahavior and, if she is, what she thinks the cause of it is? Is it a bad habit or is it something deeper? That's where I'd start. If your husband can do that, all the better, but if not, I would step in and talk to her. I'm not sure how I would handle this, but I think I would encourage my dh to stand up for himself, but even if he didn't, I wouldn't feel comfortable with ignoring the behavior. I'd be afraid that would send a message that I agreed with the behavior and thought it was okay. And I very much agree with not making it punitive but working on developing empathy towards her father and more of an awareness of her behavior. Edited December 30, 2015 by OnMyOwn 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm not "experienced" with parenting teens, but I'm thinking at this from the perspective of general speculation. My main observation is that she doesn't seem to want to take him seriously. I think that is an expression of what she imagines that she "doesn't need" -- serious parenting. (Of course, she does need serious parenting, she just doesn't like to feel like she needs it.) So she seems to be downplaying his intelligence and contributions in an overt (and inappropriate) way. If it was me, I think I'd try to: (1) Model for her a few socially appropriate ways to respond to someone that she doesn't want to take as seriously as they take them-self -- without being insulting. Essentially 'bean dipping' with humour. (2) Teach her a way to *say it* in a normal voice when she doesn't like her dad's approach to her (probably 'treating me like a kid') instead of resorting to adversarial tone and gestures in an attempt to cue him without actually bringing it up. Possibly through scripting? These are both life-long verbal skills that she will benefit from learning and using in her home. There's nothing wrong with dad presenting her with an opportunity to develop them. Bean dipping doesn't enhance relationships, but it does replace a behaviour that erodes the relationship. Speaking about what you want a loved one to change about their approach to you -- without being offensive -- does enhance relationships. I'd expect it to take a while... If she's even on board with the new skills. I don't know how to bring it up either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 My dh and I were always partners in situations like that. So if a child treated my dh that way, I would indeed step in. Or maybe he would. One of us would; sometimes, depending on the situation, it just works out better for one to do it (or at least to do it first) than the other. So, we didn't have the attitude of "It's his problem so I'll stay out of it." We stuck by each other and helped each other out in situations like this. Treating any family like that would just not be allowed, not in my presence, not in his presence. I'd try and get to the bottom of it. Why is she doing it? Sit down and talk to her and really listen. If she speaks more easily with you, then you be the one to do it. Eventually your husband should too, but you can pave the way. Because she is already upset and you've let it continue for awhile, I'd enter the discussion seriously but gently. I'd treat her respectfully but make sure she knows that her actions will not be tolerated. Help her understand why (they are hurtful and don't help anything). Then help her find a better way to express her frustration or whatever it is. She can practice with you. Then I'd talk to your dh, and explain things to him, and help him find a better way of dealing with her as well. Then bring the two of them together. The important thing is that she understands that her way of dealing with the situation is unkind, and that your dh is trying. But sometimes kids don't know how to handle these things properly and they really need us to help them understand and learn a better way. Fourteen is a tough age. I'm sure my 20-year-old dd feels I don't always treat her her age! :) But be clear that her scorn and unkind actions are just not allowed. Let her know you will not treat her that way either; no one in the family should treat each other that way, ever. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Okay, experienced moms and anyone else who wants to chime in, here's my situation. I have a dd14 and a dd13 (1.5 years apart). The issue is with the older dd. She isn't very nice to her father, DH. He's a really nice guy, involved father, not prone to anger, quite patient, really quite faultless. My only (very minor complaint) is maybe, maybe, he still treats her as a child. But not deserving of dd14's scorn. I tend to agree that dh should handle this. You may have opportunities to be a peacemaker, but if you step in to try to fix things, that likely won't help her respect dad more. At the most, I might try to have a heart to heart and ask her what's going on, and see what she says. Don't push too much if she's not ready to talk yet, but open the door. I suspect that what may appear to be a very minor complaint to you may have the potential to be a major complaint to her. She's definitely at an age where respect is huge and if she feels he doesn't respect her and treats her as a child, she's going to throw major disrespect back. That doesn't make it the right response, but a logical one in a young teen mind. I think the best thing though would be for dh to try to connect with her, take her out one on one, build bridges. If there are ways that he still treats her as a child, that's a sign he's not really up on who she is now, and that is a big deal to a teen. But the thing is, I do let him have his own conversations with her. But at the dinner table, I usually don't step up to defend him. I'm silent. I'm wondering if I should be more explicit in my support for him? Or maybe I should be more punitive? I wouldn't jump to punitive just yet--I think it's time to find out what's going on first. Hear her out, and then come to some reasonable boundaries together. My dd went through this to a lesser extent with her dad--I think it's hard for dads to realize their "little girls" are growing up and changing, but it's important. She also may not realize when she's showing a tone or rolling eyes etc..., as it may be something she's gotten used to doing. I'd pull her aside and point it out and encourage her to try again. But if there's a lot of anger/resentment issues going on--that's something she and dad really need to resolve. Being chummy with you sounds almost like she's playing you against him--trying to make him jealous or upset or regret something he's doing--it's hard to know without being there, but it could be a game, and I would tread carefully and let her know as another mom said that you're not impressed when she's rude to dad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Have you asked her if she is aware of the bahavior and, if she is, what she thinks the cause of it is? Is it a bad habit or is it something deeper? That's where I'd start. If your husband can do that, all the better, but if not, I would step in and talk to her. I would start here also. Perhaps there is something deeper going on. If she denies that there is anything, then it's a good time to discuss that it's hurtful, to both you and your husband. You can let her know then that you won't be passive anymore in letting that go on. ETA,I have had better luck in the teen years focusing on "hurtful" rather than "disrespectful" or making a punitive issue out of it. That just turns into a power struggle rather than a real discussion. The hurtful angle seems to reach deeper. Edited December 30, 2015 by goldberry 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) I didn't like my dad growing up. At all. Poor guy. As an adult, I realize he probably has Asperger's or some sort of social anxiety. But when you're a teenager and your dad is acting in socially unacceptable ways it's really hard to handle. I would never in a million years have been able to talk to him directly about it. I didn't want to be in the same room with him. (Oh, it breaks my heart now. If only I'd understood what was going on back then. He's a good man, but he has pretty serious social difficulties.) I loved my mother and considered her a best friend. I could have told her if she'd gently talked to me about it and listened very carefully. I'd say that you need to pull her aside and very gently ask her what is it about her father that makes her so disdainful. Listen very carefully to what she says. Ask questions. Perhaps say, "Let me think about all this for a day or two," before responding. Then, later, come back with a response on how to handle it. If it's because he treats her too young, then you can talk to DH about it. If he's provoking this response then he might need to step up his parenting game and learn how to treat her differently. Talk to your dd about how to handle these issues in the future. Teach her appropriate body language and words to use to let her dad know when she's feeling belittled. Maybe there is a way to inject some gentle humor. How about you all watch where Steve Martin's 20-something daughter tells him she's getting married, but when he sees her, he sees her as a 5-year old little girl saying, "We're getting maaaarried!" If your dh starts treating your daughter too young, she could say, "Dad, is this a "we're getting married" moment for you?" If there's a different issue than what you think it is (that he treats her too young), then you'll need to think on how best to handle it and come back to her later. My advice is to start the ball rolling and figure out what's going on. She might not speak directly to DH well. Since she has a good rapport with you, I'd ask her quietly first and once you have the info give her some tips. If it keeps up after you've done the initial conversation/help, then I'd say that your DH will need to start handling it on his own. Edited December 30, 2015 by Garga 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 My dh and I were always partners in situations like that. So if a child treated my dh that way, I would indeed step in. Or maybe he would. One of us would; sometimes, depending on the situation, it just works out better for one to do it (or at least to do it first) than the other. So, we didn't have the attitude of "It's his problem so I'll stay out of it." We stuck by each other and helped each other out in situations like this. Treating any family like that would just not be allowed, not in my presence, not in his presence. I'd try and get to the bottom of it. Why is she doing it? Sit down and talk to her and really listen. If she speaks more easily with you, then you be the one to do it. Eventually your husband should too, but you can pave the way. Because she is already upset and you've let it continue for awhile, I'd enter the discussion seriously but gently. I'd treat her respectfully but make sure she knows that her actions will not be tolerated. Help her understand why (they are hurtful and don't help anything). Then help her find a better way to express her frustration or whatever it is. She can practice with you. Then I'd talk to your dh, and explain things to him, and help him find a better way of dealing with her as well. Then bring the two of them together. The important thing is that she understands that her way of dealing with the situation is unkind, and that your dh is trying. But sometimes kids don't know how to handle these things properly and they really need us to help them understand and learn a better way. Fourteen is a tough age. I'm sure my 20-year-old dd feels I don't always treat her her age! :) But be clear that her scorn and unkind actions are just not allowed. Let her know you will not treat her that way either; no one in the family should treat each other that way, ever. This. My boys were 2.5 and 6 when I married dh. He is dad to them. They know and have always known that dh and I back each other up. Dh allows no disrespect to me, and I am the same with him. If they have a valid beef with one of us, it needs to be addressed calmly, and both the child and parent have to agree that there won't be repercussions for being honest. Dh has often said, "This is my wife, my girl, and you will not treat her like crap, or you will answer to me." It has rarely been an issue, because we have backed each other since the beginning. Of course that means you have to be on the same page with things.There has never been an attitude of "if one parent says no, ask the other here." It is both of us agreeing, or we discuss it till we find a common ground. I have seen too many kids play one parent against the other and cause big issues down the road for the marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Have you or your dh asked her why she is showing such contempt for him? ETA: ah, someone asked this,,,sorry. I would definitely start there. Edited December 30, 2015 by jewellsmommy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) Our general rule is to say something like "Hey, that's my husband/wife you're talking to." In quieter moments we make sure to talk about the other spouse's awesome traits and why we love them. This does seem to eventually nip the attitude in the bud. Now I sound like Barney Fife 😛 Edited December 30, 2015 by joyofsix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 There is nothing wrong with privately discussing with your dd what you have noticed going on and that it is unacceptable. Have you asked your dh how he feels about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It is hard to transition from being the child to being the adult child of a parent. Kinks have to be worked out on both ends. That said, my girls would get serious talks about being disrespectful to ANYONE. She may not be aware that she's being a pill. If she isn't she needs to be made aware. Also, she needs to know that both of her parents are a united front. Disagreements are okay, but sass and disrespect are not. Explain to her that it is hurtful to even dad when that happens. Heck, it is hurtful to YOU since he is your husband. They don't always see parents as feeling individuals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It is hard to transition from being the child to being the adult child of a parent. Kinks have to be worked out on both ends. That said, my girls would get serious talks about being disrespectful to ANYONE. She may not be aware that she's being a pill. If she isn't she needs to be made aware. Also, she needs to know that both of her parents are a united front. Disagreements are okay, but sass and disrespect are not. Explain to her that it is hurtful to even dad when that happens. Heck, it is hurtful to YOU since he is your husband. They don't always see parents as feeling individuals. I agree with this. In our house, disrespect to anyone is a big deal, especially someone in our home. If there are no underlying issues, and she's just trying out what we call "being ugly" then I'd call her on it. We'd talk. We'd listen. And then honestly, there would likely be done serious consequences. I think respect is a two way street and learning that is a part of growing up. So, mouth off/eye roll/excessive tone/rude attitude, and I'm much less likely to drive you places/pay for things/give you privileges/etc. I don't care your disresct is aimed at me, DH, a sibling, or the dog. Respect, good relationships, kindness, a pleasant tone, feeling safe and loved - those are the landmarks of our home and if any one of us is trying to destroy that, they'd be called on it and coached/mentored toward appropriate behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 In our house, dh is the favorite with dd13 (and everyone else, honestly.) Dh always has my back (when he's home.) Sometimes that puts her in check, and sometimes she gets mad at him for a bit, until she calms down. I do treat some degree of friction as perfectly normal teen behavior, but there is a line that both of us parents maintain. It isn't dh's job to monitor and encourage the relationship between my daughter and me. The real work is on us. He's simply the other parent doing the other parent job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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