Dealing with a difficult child

[lovinmyboys]

I am wondering at what point you seek outside help. I am starting to think that my five year old has oppositional defiant disorder, but I am not sure I want him being labeled with that. Would he (and I) be able to access services with that label that we otherwise wouldn't have access to? Is there even any hope of it getting better with treatment/therapy? Has anyone gone to counseling themselves and has it helped you cope with having a difficult child? (I hate using the word difficult so if someone has a better word please let me know).

 

I talked to his pediatrician in February and I don't think he thought his behavior was that bad. He said he didn't really have any risk factors for the disorder. He also thought things would get better if I had a break from him and if he had other authority figures in his life, so he suggested sending him to school (he wasn't school age in February and we didn't really have the money for preschool). Now, he could go to kindergarten but it is only half day and it starts at 7:50, which is really early for him. I know that the battle getting him to school would erase any positives of the 3hr break I would get from him. So, I don't know that I want to bring it up with the pediatrician again.

 

I'm just getting worn down with the constant daily battle with him about everything. I don't even know why he fights me or what he is hoping to gain from his behavior. We have lots of good times too, but the bad times are just so draining. If he doesn't want to do something he will fight almost to the death to not do it. If he doesn't want to go somewhere he will take his clothes off. Once I get him in the car he will unbuckle his seat belt. And it is getting more and more where he doesn't want to do anything he is supposed to do-take a shower, brush his teeth, anything.

 

I have 3 other kids and they all occasionally have defiant moments, but nothing that even comes close to his defiance. I just want to help him. It can't be fun to be mad about everything all the time.

[Jennifer132]

I have one like that. She is nine. She has always been that way, even from infancy. We too took her to the ped and he said he didn't think the behavior was out of the normal range, but he could give us a mental health referral if we wanted. He also mentioned possibly putting her in school, but ultimately that wasn't what we wanted for her.

 

The straw that broke the camel's back was a late night fight. We got the point in arguing where we realized if she didn't want to do something, she wasn't going to NO MATTER WHAT. Eventually she went to bed-when she wanted to. It started affecting our family life, our marriage, I was uncomfortable with my younger children seeing her fits. So we took her to a therapist. This was about 6 months ago. She is now on a low dose of meds and seeing a therapist. She is doing a lot better (not perfect, but better).

 

Eta: I would not have been willing to try meds at five. Every parent has their threshold, and my daughter hit it when she was 9. I kept hoping she'd grow out of it. I tried several diets, supplements, more structure, less structure, etc. for us, meds was the answer (for now anyway).

[Pamela H in Texas]

A therapist will treat and help y'all without a diagnosis.  I think it would be worth a trial and see if that helps.  At some time, you may want a psych eval of one sort or another in order to get more information to have direction for treatment options if it came down to it.  But I would start with something pretty low key.

 

The goal of therapy, assuming there isn't a catalyst type incident in life, would be to give him more life skills in order to cope better.  

 

I want to remind you that behavior is communication.  5yos don't have the life experience or self-control to articulate themselves well.  Heck, neither do I sometimes!  So when you're in a situation, try to be empathetic and work WITH him for a solution.  

 

You might also try some Dan Seigel (book, youtube videos, etc) to help you think a bit differently about his behavior and how to handle it.

And yes, I went to therapy because I was struggling with my reactions to my AC's behavior (even before adoption).  It helped in terms of acceptance.  Acceptance doesn't mean you don't work to change things, but just that you acknowledge where y'all are and don't label it negatively....kinda.  That helps a lot.  It allows me to be more empathetic.  It allows me to work for solutions rather than getting frustrated or angry (though I still do sometimes, of course because *I* am human and I have to accept THAT about me too!).  

 

There is a parenting group on FB (if you use it) called Parenting With Connection.  It is primarily adoptive families (some foster, some bios). It may be of some help.  Or there may be another similar group that could be recommended.  I find it helpful to read along.  The tone is really nice and helpful.  The people there are empathetic of both the parents and the children rather than just one or the other (which I found very problematic in terms of attitude and suggestions on other groups).  

 

BTW, I want to really commend you!  First, it sounds like you ARE empathetic!  And second, it is wise to seek help when things to get this point and you've tried so hard.  You and your son both deserve some relief and you're a good mama for trying to figure out how to get it!

[kroe1]

What helped me was finding a book and then sticking with the advice. Back in the day, I used James Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child". There are plenty of books now so, hopefully, someone will advise.

 

In regards to the school advice, I can say that did help us. DD15 was in daycare a bit which made her behavior worse, but had been defiant since birth. The lovely little school we found for kindergarten just seemed to be a lifesaver. I do not know if DD was going to grow out of it anyway, if the recommended parenting techniques were finally paying off, or if being in a classroom was what really did it. But, we had a different child in just a few weeks. She is truly the daughter everyone would die for now.

[fairfarmhand]

Have you read the Explosive Child?

[JumpyTheFrog]

We are finally having success following the advice in "The Manipulative Child." Now the title doesn't really match the contents, but I guess they didn't want a wordy title like "How not to let your child's anger or bad behavior control you as a parent." Punishment has never worked on my oldest and the book teaches non-punitive ways to get your kids to cooperate.

 

The book is from 1999 and has a preview on Amazon. The reviews are mixed. Some people are hung up on the title. I'd aay ignore the authors' definition of manipulation if you like. The behaviors the describe are a problem, regardless of whether you consider it (planned) manipulation or not. Some of the negative reviews are about a page or two where people feel the authors blamed the victim about an attempted rape (I think). You can easily skip those pages if you like and still learn a ton.

 

I have read "The Explosive Child" and other books but this was the one that started getting results. "Raising Your Spirited Child" helped us better find the patterns of bad behavior, but wasn't as helpful with changing things. The "stop, pause, redirect" method in "Thr Manipulative Child" sometimes takes a long time (especially at the beginning), but makes it clear to Tigger that no amount of yelling or bad behavior is going to let him get his way.

 

The gist is this: As soon as the bad behavior occurs, have the child sit down quietly for about 30 seconds. Once they are calm, say something like "No more talking back" or "Get dressed." The moment they resist, do it again. I had one day where it took two hours before Tigger finally stood up with a calm attitude, but in the end, we always win. So at the beginning it can take a long time (and every once in a while), but eventually they learn there is no other option but to calmly comply. After a couple weeks, he rarely needed to go through the process for more than a few times before remembering "Oh yeah, I better cooperate and get more free time than spend an hour fighting it."

[JumpyTheFrog]

Let me add, the process sounds to simple to work. But if you are going to try it, pick a week where the top priority is making him "park it" ten thousand times in a row if need be. Don't talk to him during the calming phase so you don't get dragged into argument. It works best for us if we look like bored teenagers, like we are content to stand there looking off to the side all day. This keeps us from getting into an argument (which would make him think he can negotiate out). Wearing noise canceling headphones while reading can also work.

 

What I like about it: no yelling, no spanking, no unrelated punishments or consequences. It can be done in public (have him stand instead of sit), in the car, wherever. It teaches the kids that no amount of bad attitudes or behavior is going to get them out of what they are avoiding.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Now that said, we have noticed that lack of sleep and being hungry affects Tigger 5x more than most people. Sometimes the best course is to feed him and wait for him to "cage the monster" again. I don't want to make it sound like your should avoid meeting your son's needs. The techniques in the book are for addition to doing things to prevent the bad behavior.

[Innisfree]

Seconding The Explosive Child and, if that doesn't seem to be enough, serious consideration of evaluations.

 

The Strong-Willed Child was a disaster *for us*. Its premise, as I remember it, is the opposite of The Explosive Child.

 

Ross Greene says in The Explosive Child that children do well if they can; if they are consistently having problems, that behavior is caused by lagging skill development. There is no sense in punishing a child because they do not have the skills they need. Instead, he shows you how to help them develop those skills. It's essentially like saying you wouldn't punish for dyslexia, you remediate instead.

 

If I am remembering Dobson and The Strong-Willed Child correctly, his idea is that you need to demonstrate your own authority, with physical correction if necessary (please correct me if I'm wrong). But this assumes that the child does have the (actually very complex) skills to be able to behave as we want them to, and that is not always the case.

 

We listened to bad advice and tried Dobson. We also went to a therapist who did not have the knowledge or experience to suggest neuropsych evaluations. She diagnosed our dd with ODD. Long story short and years later, we got a valid, helpful diagnosis of autism from a neuropsych.

 

But long before we got that diagnosis we'd tossed out Dobson and used Greene, because Dobson's approach made things much worse and Greene's approach helped. You can't punish missing skills into existence, and you can't tell what's at the root of a child's problems without a competent evaluation.

 

(Minniewannabe: please forgive my fairly strongly-worded response to Dobson. I know that for another child, his methods might work. But they were so disastrous for us that, where there's a suspicion of a real diagnosable issue, he's a bit of a trigger for me. Nothing personal. :-). )

 

And, final note: problems are scary. But I wouldn't be scared of a label. Labels tell us how to make things better. I would be scared of a problem that isn't correctly labeled and thus isn't correctly treated. Trust me, that is worse.

[Loowit]

My DS has been diagnosed with ODD and OCD.  He has been in therapy since he was about 5, although we took a few breaks here and there.  I have not found that he gets and different services based on his diagnosis, but they will give a diagnosis when you go in and get the initial visit.  They need that if they are going to be billing insurance, but it also gives them an area to start.  I have found that the diagnosis evolve or even change over time as they get to know the child more and see more what is going on.  It can be a very long and frustrating process, but I think it is worth it.

 

When we first started going to therapy it was for anger outbursts that we couldn't explain.  He would be sitting playing one minute, and then attacking his brother the next.  We couldn't figure out what was going on.  Through therapy we were able to find a pattern to his behavior and were able to address what was going on.  For him it is sensory issues combined with OCD.  Last night at his soccer game he had a meltdown and refused to participate for a while because kids weren't following the rules for a warm up.  They weren't switching lines like they were supposed to and he couldn't handle it.  Then he just refuses to do anything.  He is a very stubborn child and always has been.  If he doesn't want to do something he won't.  It is hard, but I pick my battles and stick to my guns when I need to.

 

We recently tried medication, but so far it has not been a help.  ODD doesn't typically respond well to medication from all the research I have done, but I and his doctor thought it was worth trying.

 

The book that helped me most was "The Explosive Child, ..." by Ross Greene. 

 

I have thought that my day would go easier if he were in school instead of at home, but he doesn't want to go, and he has told me that if I force him he would get himself kicked out.  I believe he would try and in the process cause a lot of problems for himself and others.  So it is not worth giving it a go at this point.  We have gotten past the explosiveness of his temper and he has learned a lot of coping strategies to use when he is upset.  But we still have many days when he just refuses to do his schoolwork and I let him sit for as long as it takes to get done.  If I am "nice mom" and let him have a break from just sitting it never will get done.  It has exhausting at times and very draining, but I am seeing improvement.  I just bring a nice book to the table while he sits there and refuses to work.  At the age of your son I wouldn't have done this, that is just too young.  At that age I focused much more on safety issues.  If he wasn't buckled we sat in the car or pulled over if we were driving until it was taken care of.  I added in a lot of extra time anytime we had to go anywhere because I knew there would likely be a battle.  I also made sure to let my DS know ahead of time about any appointments that were out of the norm.  I told him at least three days ahead, then reminded him each day and on the day of several reminders went out.  It helped him with the transition, since that is an area he struggles with a lot.

[fairfarmhand]

Seconding The Explosive Child and, if that doesn't seem to be enough, serious consideration of evaluations.

 

The Strong-Willed Child was a disaster *for us*. Its premise, as I remember it, is the opposite of The Explosive Child.

 

Ross Greene says in The Explosive Child that children do well if they can; if they are consistently having problems, that behavior is caused by lagging skill development. There is no sense in punishing a child because they do not have the skills they need. Instead, he shows you how to help them develop those skills. It's essentially like saying you wouldn't punish for dyslexia, you remediate instead.

 

If I am remembering Dobson and The Strong-Willed Child correctly, his idea is that you need to demonstrate your own authority, with physical correction if necessary (please correct me if I'm wrong). But this assumes that the child does have the (actually very complex) skills to be able to behave as we want them to, and that is not always the case.

 

We listened to bad advice and tried Dobson. We also went to a therapist who did not have the knowledge or experience to suggest neuropsych evaluations. She diagnosed our dd with ODD. Long story short and years later, we got a valid, helpful diagnosis of autism from a neuropsych.

 

But long before we got that diagnosis we'd tossed out Dobson and used Greene, because Dobson's approach made things much worse and Greene's approach helped. You can't punish missing skills into existence, and you can't tell what's at the root of a child's problems without a competent evaluation.

 

(Minniewannabe: please forgive my fairly strongly-worded response to Dobson. I know that for another child, his methods might work. But they were so disastrous for us that, where there's a suspicion of a real diagnosable issue, he's a bit of a trigger for me. Nothing personal. :-). )

 

And, final note: problems are scary. But I wouldn't be scared of a label. Labels tell us how to make things better. I would be scared of a problem that isn't correctly labeled and thus isn't correctly treated. Trust me, that is worse.

 

My experience with the Strongwilled Child and Explosive Child books were identical.

 

 

[lovinmyboys]

I am reading The Explosive Child now. I have skimmed it before, but I am really reading now. I agree that my son has skills that are lagging...I'm just not sure which ones.

 

I also like that the book says that a child doesn't behave that way because of parenting. I get hurt when people post things on Facebook about "bratty" behavior being caused by parents. I also have some people in my life that will talk about other kids behavior and imply that it is the parents fault. Thankfully, no one has ever said anything to me about my son.

[Innisfree]

Some people live in a very comfortable world in which those assumptions about parenting have never had to be challenged. I would not base your opinions about how well you are doing on their naive ideas.

[matrips]

I'm also reading Explosive Child right now. I was going to recommend it, but see you have it.

 

I have an arguer. And he can be super stubborn. He seems to need intense stimulation. And now that he's older he can tell me that arguing and fighting provide a release for him. It makes him feel better. And then he's okay for awhile again. At age 5 we started the Feingold Program to eliminate different chemicals from his food. It did help. And he became my best label reader. We've also listened to Kirk Martin Celebrate Calm CDs together. The other day he was in a mood to argue about something. I cheerfully suggested he go outside and hit on our batting machine thing. When he came back in, all signs of arguing were gone. He got his stimulus from hitting the bat.

 

Thing is, he wants to be a good kid. Even at age 4 he could tell me that. But he feels like a bad one :(. He works hard at his self control and behavior. And has come so far. He really is an awesome kid. I hope I can help him see that. He responds greatly to words of affirmation and attention. I just need to remember them more for him.

[ktgrok]

Abolutely you should seek help. And don't rush to assume ODD. There can be a lot of other things that cause similar behavior. I was thinking ODD myself, but my son was diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD. I was shocked at first, but the more I read the more it made sense. Having that diagnoses saved our relationship, because I could learn how to reach him, and learn that his outburst weren't about me at all, or my parenting.

 

And I hear you about the "bratty kids" posts on facebook. I have 3 kids. the other two are constantly being complimented. I parent them the exact same way I did the first, who had so many behavior issues. Honestly, I was afraid he'd end up in juvenile detention or something...he hit constantly, yelled, screamed was angry all the time, and would flat out NOT do what he was told. He still has issues, but he is not violent anymore, and is actually a really cool person. Without that diagnosis I would have thought he was just rude and selfish. And that I was a horrid parent.

 

I reccomend a neuropsychologist for a full work up. And please, be kind to yourself.  

 

Oh, and if there is any possibility of underlying issues the book The Strong Willed Child is the WRONG way to go. It wold have not fixed anything,and killed my son's trust in me. 

[texasmama]

At this point, I would seek counseling.  ODD is a catch all label that is not terribly useful.  IME, it is used less frequently than in the past and almost always there is something else going on.  At five, you have a fair chance that he will mature out of the extremes in behavior, though he will likely not be the calmest child ever.  Many therapists do have to make a diagnosis in order to treat (due to insurance or agency requirements).

 

Some kids react very badly to food dyes and other things so it is worth a look into diet since this child is markedly different from your other kids.

 

Counseling is not a cure-all, by any means, but at the place you have reached, I would seek it out.

[Joanne]

First, please don't think of therapy as a last resort or something for which things have to be "bad enough." Unfortunately, because of misinformation and stigma, many people wait until it IS a last resort and then it takes a lot more work for everyone (patient, family, therapist.)

 

If you want to use your insurance for therapy, the professional will have to diagnose.

 

If you choose to pay for service, they will not have to - but depending on the professional, they may.

 

I agree with the Explosive Child book.

 

An oldie but goodie is "Raising Your Spirited Child."

 

If you are Christian, books by Scott Turansky and Joanne Miller are good.

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I won't post a whole long post, but I'll bang on my usual drum and say please look carefully at what he's eating. Our experience with my youngest DD was so dramatic that I really think it should be every struggling parent's first resort. At ages 2, 3, 4, we kind of laughed over her behavior. "Oh, she's so dramatic, she's so strong-willed, it's the terrible twos, the terrible threes, the F-ing fours, haha!" By 5, and then 6, I was scared and starting to contemplate what life would be like for a child so filled with rage and defiance. I could see hatred in her eyes on a daily basis, and her sister took the brunt of her anger.

 

I bought all the books and started to read them, but then I read an article that really got my attention and started carefully watching what we were eating. Even though I thought we had a fairly natural/organic diet, my mom (who was our twice-weekly babysitter) would bring over problem foods that I let slide as treats, or DD would be sick and having pink cold medicine, or it would turn out that the fruit chews "made with real fruit juice!" were still loaded with colors, or... In the end, we found that yellow and red food dye make her impossible to live with, and "caramel coloring," which is in so much seemingly healthy food (like bread! why does bread need coloring?!!!) is a close second. 

 

So if you haven't already, I'd start there. It's a relatively easy experiment to try for a few weeks. My DD's personality is like night and day depending on what she's eating. In fact, with all the Halloween candy floating around already, she's been having a hard time. DH just asked me yesterday what she'd been eating. The answer was gobstoppers  :glare:

 

Beyond that, you've gotten great advice. I hope you can find a solution. I know how hard it is to live that way on a daily basis  :grouphug:

[mom2att]

I am reading The Explosive Child now. I have skimmed it before, but I am really reading now. I agree that my son has skills that are lagging...I'm just not sure which ones.

 

I also like that the book says that a child doesn't behave that way because of parenting. I get hurt when people post things on Facebook about "bratty" behavior being caused by parents. I also have some people in my life that will talk about other kids behavior and imply that it is the parents fault. Thankfully, no one has ever said anything to me about my son.

 

Having a child like this will give you empathy for other parents to the nth degree.

 

My first was the "perfect" child in that she did everything by the book. I had the audacity to think it was because of the way I parented and looked down my nose at others whose kids were not as well-behaved. So God awarded me with child #2 and said "See how you do with this one." He was different and difficult from day one and bought me humility in spades. I am exceedingly grateful for all I have learned because of our journey together.

 

Add me to the chorus of recommendations for Greene's book. It was a game-changer for us and hugely helpful. We also had success with eliminating artificial colors and flavors.

 

At any rate, those years were hard. The teen years are a different kind of hard, but what an amazing person my son is. When he was 7 and I was worried about what I was going to do when he was bigger than me I couldn't have imagined that he would become such a thoughtful, gentle young man. He's learned (and is learning) to handle those powerful emotions that at younger ages totally overwhelmed him. And I'm a better person because I've learned how difficult that is for some kids.

[Guest]

Abolutely you should seek help. And don't rush to assume ODD. There can be a lot of other things that cause similar behavior. I was thinking ODD myself, but my son was diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD. I was shocked at first, but the more I read the more it made sense. Having that diagnoses saved our relationship, because I could learn how to reach him, and learn that his outburst weren't about me at all, or my parenting.

 

And I hear you about the "bratty kids" posts on facebook. I have 3 kids. the other two are constantly being complimented. I parent them the exact same way I did the first, who had so many behavior issues. Honestly, I was afraid he'd end up in juvenile detention or something...he hit constantly, yelled, screamed was angry all the time, and would flat out NOT do what he was told. He still has issues, but he is not violent anymore, and is actually a really cool person. Without that diagnosis I would have thought he was just rude and selfish. And that I was a horrid parent.

 

I reccomend a neuropsychologist for a full work up. And please, be kind to yourself.

 

Oh, and if there is any possibility of underlying issues the book The Strong Willed Child is the WRONG way to go. It wold have not fixed anything,and killed my son's trust in me.

This is EXACTLY our experience. I though DS had ODD or was maybe just a spoiled a-hole. Trying to school him was a nightmare and it was really ruining my relationships with the whole family. He was diagnosed with Autism and ADHD, went on meds for a short time and now goes to a small Catholic school with an IEP (which he doesn't use but it is there if he needs it). The school is amazing. I have regular meetings with the principal and his teacher and I really believe they are on his side (the principal calls the three of us Team DS's Name).

 

So, don't be afraid of labels. It is what it is. And don't trust Dr. Internet. Find a real doctor who will do real tests and go from there.

[scbusf]

Great advice so far.

 

I read almost every book mentioned here and none of it helped us.  Our situation is different in that my DD was adopted from China and she has a (now repaired) cleft lip and palate.  She has had many challenges in her short life :(  We sought outside help when it was disrupting our entire family.

 

First, I found a counselor that specialized in working with kids.  We saw her for about 6 months and DD improved SO much.  Then, this year has been a tough one for our family (lots of medical stuff for all of us, and she has a big surgery coming up in November), so DD has gone back downhill.  We have continued with the original counselor - it's been about a year now.  But we have recently added a Child Psychiatrist into the mix.  DD has now been diagnosed with severe anxiety, and OCD.  We have started her on a very low dose of meds and it is helping so much.  I am starting to see glimpses of my real DD now.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I wanted to suggest that you'll also, in time, find lots of different things to try.  
 

I think parenting paradigm shifts are necessary and helpful a lot of the time.  What worked for my first two simply was not appropriate for my younger set of kids because the foundation was so different. Now I encourage people to work on the foundation first regardless.  You simply cannot go wrong with that.  If the foundation is good, then it is like running the sprinklers to keep it good.  If it is lacking in any way, you are working to fix it.  Teaching, guiding, values, limits, especially redos, etc will work much better on a firm foundation.  And regardless, you strengthen rather than damage the relationship in the process.  

 

Many people are finding help with simple diet changes.  One of my kids needs more fiber.  Desperately. Two couldn't handle milk products.  There is tons of information about making sure blood sugar doesn't drop (eating every 2 or so  hours, for example).  There is information that not having animal products can help.  Obviously information about sweets and dyes and such have been around forever.  

 

Others find essential oils helpful.

 

Neurofeedback, neuroreorganization, certain supplements, etc may help.  

 

The last psych eval I received for a child suggested tests of cortisol and neurotransmitters as well as therapy with a TBRI trained therapist!  I was so impressed!  Even the psychologist we're using for our foster kids is keeping up with current information!  

 

Honestly, it can be helpful sometimes.  It makes it where certain kids can learn and I *want* to keep pushing through with them.  I don't know if these will be used for a short time or a long time or forever.  I do know that it helps our family at this time. 

 

The list could go on.  

 

I would definitely start with therapy.  Like Joanne said, it should be much higher up on the list than it is for so many people.  It can't be a last resort because so often it can't really work when it has so much behind it.  You'll have to muddle back through all that to get to a point to benefit.  Use it sooner rather than later.   (and yes, they will give a dx for insurance purposes; but my experience is that it is a very broad dx like "adjustment disorder" or "anxiety" as therapists aren't really doing full psych evals to get an exact diagnosis. Don't put too much stock in what that dx is).  

I really hope you find a combination of things that work for y'all.  But again, I'd start with therapy and a parenting paradigm that helps you work with him to improve his relationship foundation and skill set. 

 

People do better when they can do better. 

[gardenmom5]

dudeling's ped was pretty worthless. (after talking with other parents who'd left the extensive practice - it was the practice.)  he even got angry at him for being "defiant" (he refused to stand on a scale because they frieghtened him.) and refused to do a well child check.  it was the last time I took him to him - and I'd been taking my kids to him since 1dd was a newborn.

 

if you have the option - I would strongly suggest a naturopathic doctor who works with kids in this area.  I started taking dudeling to one - and the difference has been phenomenal. virtually unrecognizable.

 

also - are there any food sensitivities? 

 

red dye, artificial nitrates/nitrites can trigger such behavior.  I know one kid who reacted ONLY to sharp cheddar cheese.  other cheeses he was find - but sharp cheddar and he was off.

gluten, casein (protein in milk - it can be used in other things too), yeast, soy, are also known to trigger reactions in some kids.  sometimes just one, and sometimes all of them.

 

and high-fructose corn syrup can contain mercury. (hfcs is in many, many foods.) caustic soda is used to extract the sugar from the corn - and it can contain mercury that can be left behind.  dudeling had a blood draw while he was drinking root beer.  his mercury level = the mercury from a thermometer. banning hfcs, and 12 weeks of daily glutathione injections (strong antioxidant that helps clear it from the system.  the pills sold otc aren't bioavailable.), I had someone walked up to me and comment on the changes in his behavior.

 

there was one day dudeling was being more than usually oppositional, and downright aggressive.  I started at him, and the thought "what have you been eating?" popped in my head.  he reacted to nitrates.  I noticed naturally occurring nitrates didn't trigger a reaction.  there were a few years he simply wasn't allowed to have anything with nitrates.  now, I allow one serving no more than every few days (at most.).  same for tuna, as it contains mercury.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Sherry, please consider the group I mentioned above.  And a TBRI-trained therapist. And The Connected Child by Karyn Purvis.  Kids from hard places suffer so much.  The medical issues, issues regarding adoption, etc can be so challenging. 

[lovinmyboys]

Thank you everyone for all of the replies. It has been really helpful.

 

One thing I am thinking with my child is that he doesn't get enough sleep and is chronically tired. We had a terrible day one day this week, but then he fell asleep in the car and I thought the tiredness may have had something to do with it. He doesn't nap and he doesn't sleep in and it is so hard to get him to sleep "on time."

 

Another thing I realized is that he often "explodes" over things I have no control over. For my other kids I could empathize with them but then explain that I can't change physics or our laws or whatever. Then, they get over it. With him, he has a really hard time getting over those things. Right now he is mad because "it isn't fair that his brother gets to be older just because he was born first." He also is upset that "summer went away." Two things that I definitely don't control.

 

I am going to contact the doctor, finish The Explosive Child, try very hard to get him enough sleep, and look at his diet this week. Thanks again everyone.

[BooksandBoys]

For my very intense child (who may have ODD, but the psych is using a different diagnosis right now), sleep is essential, but he has a very hard time getting enough. He can't sleep in and naps make bedtime nearly impossible. We just can't have late nights in our home. At all. Bedtime is 8 because he will be awake before the sun regardless of when he falls asleep.

 

Also, diet is both essential for his mood and essential for any reasonable sleep. He can't do dairy (casein), gluten, any legumes (beans, including peanuts and peas), or food coloring. For a while, we didn't even allow him to touch things with food coloring in them (think play doh, etc) because he was so primed for explosive behavior that just that trigger was too much. He's better now after two years food dye free, so I occasionally allow him to play with paint and play doh now. Some of the reactions are subtle (beans make him weepy, crying all day long, but also take several days to be obvious), so it took a long time and a lot of recording in my notes to figure it all out (I'm pretty sure I'm still missing something...maybe nitrates?...but I haven't had the energy to look for more at this time).

 

I am also working my way through The Explosive Child. What we've tried so far is helping. Punishment is useless with this kiddo, and the best way (only way) to get him to do anything is to have him develop the plan of attack, not me. He's an awesome, kind child, who absolutely needs to be in charge of his own life or he explodes. It's an interesting (exhausting) line to walk.

[fairfarmhand]

For my intense explosive kids, a good sleep/wake routine is essential. I have 2 kids like this. Before puberty, they seldom would sleep in, no matter how late they stayed up. One late night could make several days of irritability and explosive meltdowns. So I am so picky about getting to bed on time.

 

Now since my dd is a teen, she will sleep in some, but even with her willingness to sleep late or nap, she still gets out of kilter and has a hard time getting back to rested if she;s out of her routine.

[Loowit]

My DS also has a lot of sleep problems.  He has never slept much even as a baby.  He gave up napping around a year old, and would stay up late and get up early.  He didn't sleep through the night until he was 5 or 6 years old.  He seems to be sleeping more now, but I think it is due to his medication, which makes him chronically tired and that isn't helping even though he is sleeping more hours.  Having a consistent sleep routine helped but didn't really get him to sleep, but it did keep him more calm and less resistant when he knows what to expect at bedtime for his routine.  The he can at least relax more when he is laying awake in bed.

[Minerva]

More sleep.

Pay attention to food.

Use the methods from the Explosive Child.

 

I go to great lengths to make sure that we are paying attention to all three of these things. It makes such a huge difference for our family. 

 

((hugs))

[gardenmom5]

Thank you everyone for all of the replies. It has been really helpful.

 

One thing I am thinking with my child is that he doesn't get enough sleep and is chronically tired. 

 

dudeling had a lot of trouble sleeping, and even going to sleep with a strict routine.

 

he refused to ever take supplements (I noticed he was better if he was taking a high quality vitamin. rainbow light gummy bear essentials.)

his ND put him on melatonin.  kids with asd/odd/ocd/adhd often don't sleep well due to a lack of melatonin.

 

I had to demand he take it.  the next night - he asked for it, and every night thereafter. (I had to reduce the doseage while we were doing the glutathione injections as he simply didn't need as much.) he still occasionally asks for it.

he started sleeping at least two more hours, had an easier time going to sleep, and more refreshing sleep.  and he was easier.

[redsquirrel]

A therapist does have to 'diagnose' for insurance purposes, but I know LOTS of people who have no idea what code their therapist uses, by their own choice. What matters is the treatment, not the diagnosis.

 

But that is not the same as going for an evaluation and getting a diagnosis like ASD or ADD etc. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Other people have made great points about the food, and it reminded me that a good friend of mine reacts to avocado the way my DD reacts to food dyes. Avocado, of all things!!! So it might be helpful to keep a food journal while you're going through all of this to see what you can pinpoint. And know that reactions don't always come in the hours immediately after eating the food. My DD doesn't start reacting to exposure for 12-24 hours, and then that can last about 24 hours. That's what made it so hard to ID, especially since my mom was only bringing the problem food a few times a week. 

 

he refused to ever take supplements (I noticed he was better if he was taking a high quality vitamin. rainbow light gummy bear essentials.)

his ND put him on melatonin.  kids with asd/odd/ocd/adhd often don't sleep well due to a lack of melatonin.

 

I had to demand he take it.  the next night - he asked for it, and every night thereafter. (I had to reduce the doseage while we were doing the glutathione injections as he simply didn't need as much.) he still occasionally asks for it.

he started sleeping at least two more hours, had an easier time going to sleep, and more refreshing sleep.  and he was easier.

 

Not to hijack, but can I ask how much you give him? I do think my youngest has ADHD (I think I do too, actually), and she often wakes hours before she's really ready. I'd love to help her get better sleep. Melatonin gave me very, VERY vivid dreams--not nightmares, just dreams that felt like movies--so I never felt rested when I woke up. I'm sure I was probably taking too much of it, but I didn't really have the energy to keep fiddling with it (and frankly, I probably didn't really need it that badly). Thanks!

[gardenmom5]

 

 

Not to hijack, but can I ask how much you give him? I do think my youngest has ADHD (I think I do too, actually), and she often wakes hours before she's really ready. I'd love to help her get better sleep. Melatonin gave me very, VERY vivid dreams--not nightmares, just dreams that felt like movies--so I never felt rested when I woke up. I'm sure I was probably taking too much of it, but I didn't really have the energy to keep fiddling with it (and frankly, I probably didn't really need it that badly). Thanks!

 

for melatonin - start with a small dose, and see how that works.  you can increase the dose. for children' start with the drops.  you can start out at 500mcg.

 

I originally had to give him 6mgs just to get him to sleep. (yes, the ND was concerned about how much I gave him.) now, he get's about 3mg.  (and he's bigger.)

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

for melatonin - start with a small dose, and see how that works.  you can increase the dose. for children' start with the drops.  you can start out at 500mcg.

 

I originally had to give him 6mgs just to get him to sleep. (yes, the ND was concerned about how much I gave him.) now, he get's about 3mg.  (and he's bigger.)

 

 

Thank you! I didn't even know there were drops. I remember taking big honking pills.