Crystal Beach, High Island, Bolivar....

[Joanne]

The complete evaporation of the homes, businessess, structures. The complete wipe out of the community.

 

Whole streets, disintergrated, gone. Lost. Empty.

 

How do "we" figure out who stayed, who left, who died? If they died, is there any recovery of bodies?

 

How many people can we be talking about?

 

I'm going to *hate* the human reaction to blame people, the government, "something" to explain this.

 

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

[kalanamak]

 

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

 

All my life I've looked at that spot on the map (it is one of the few places I've not been to in the USA) and thought "what a great place for a state park/animal refuge". I thought that even when I was a kid.

[sleepy]

 

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

 

No, I think not.

 

How very sad to have lost untold numbers of lives.

[Unicorn.]

Joanne- do you have any online sources of info on these areas? We are not getting anything but Houston info from the San Antonio news stations, and I don't have cable/sat. thanks, and glad you and yours are safe.

 

BTW- My aunt who lives in Katy fared very well, lost one tree, and had power Sat. She rode it out at my other Aunt's house in Houston (NW). She had more damage, and I still don't know if she has power back.

[Alessandra]

Unicorn -- The New York Times had a bunch of articles today (Monday, Sep 15). Here are some links:

 

on Galveston

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/us/16galveston.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

 

Bolivar Peninsula

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/us/15scene.html?scp=1&sq=bolivar%20peninsula&st=cse

 

Texas coastline

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/us/15ike.html?scp=1&sq=sabine%20pass%20port%20arthur&st=cse

 

Hope this helps.

[Unicorn.]

I'll check them out, thanks!

[Mrs Mungo]

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

 

What areas have zero chances of natural disaster? Are those the only places we should allow people to live? I've seen my hometown hit by tornados several times.

[Starr]

And that house that was hit by an avalanche twice in Juneau, Alaska.

[Unicorn.]

What areas have zero chances of natural disaster? Are those the only places we should allow people to live? I've seen my hometown hit by tornados several times.

 

 

The difference as I see it, is; a tornado, while certain areas get hit more often, is completely unpredictable. Certain areas are hurricane and flood, predictable. A lady in our town watched her house float away (it made national t.v. both times) due to flooding twice in 4 yrs. After the first time, it was rebuilt on stilts, and supposedly hurricane proof. That area has now been moved from a 100 yr flood plain, to no building allowed.

 

My point is, that if certain disasters can be prevented, they should be. JMHO

 

Hopefully that came out right- I'm tired and getting fog-brained.

[LadyAberlin]

Well I've wondered about rebuilding there and how wise it would be. If you look at Galveston and where the sea wall is there was less destruction. Also some new areas that were built with stricter building codes the houses were all standing and there wasn't a whole lot of damage. So I think if they were to rebuild the y should build a sea wall and use the stricter building codes. My neighbor has a metal building that he had built for his congregation that is supposed to withstand 150 mph winds. So if they can build structures that can handle a storm like Ike and are willing to take the risk then I guess they should rebuild. I sure know that I wouldn't be willing to take the risk. I just wonder how you start over. Your home is gone your job is gone. How are you able to rebuild when there is no work? It seems like you mind as well move somewhere else. I can't imagine trying to clean it all up.

[Retired]

http://www.khou.com

[Mamagistra]

After the initial press blackout, I was just stunned to see on-location pix from the peninsula today...

 

I can't speak to the wisdom of rebuilding there, nor to the intentions of the residents who remained. My heart is just so heavy.

 

And Crystal Beach was not only the beach when I was growing up in the Golden Triangle, it became a beloved family vacation spot for dee-aitch and I. We had already booked a beachfront house for the last week of September. :( I am so, so sad for the loss of life, the loss of homes...the memories that won't now be made.

[Nestof3]

I cannot answer your questions, but this one statement left me confused. I very sincerely wish these horrible things would never happen.

 

I'm going to *hate* the human reaction to blame people, the government, "something" to explain this.

 

Blame for what exactly? I cannot think of what the gov't could possibly be blamed for. ???

[Robin in Tx]

There was on the ground reporting today in Crystal Beach and newer homes, built to higher standards, were still standing. I think it very well could be rebuilt... we forget how old many of the homes in that area were, and how it is in sort of an unincorporated area that doesn't have the building standards of, say, Galveston's west end. If they up the standards, etc., then they wouldn't be any different than homes anywhere on any coast in hurricane land... and that's a lot of miles of coastline!! We get a devestating hurricane about every 25-30 years. If they can justify rebuilding New Orleans, they can justify rebuilding a small community of beach homes.

 

JMO,

Robin

[Joanne]

Blame for what exactly? I cannot think of what the gov't could possibly be blamed for. ???

 

For the loss of life, pets, property, the effect on the economy.

 

IME, it happens with nearly every dramatic event, natural or man made.

 

It's already starting.

[Reya]

What areas have zero chances of natural disaster? Are those the only places we should allow people to live? I've seen my hometown hit by tornados several times.

 

There's also the fact that some of the worst disasters occur the least frequently....I mean like the last New Madrid quake, for instance. It's places that have a huge bullseye that are of concern and get hit again and again, not ones that are only hit once every few lifetimes. :-)

[DB in NJ]

How do "we" figure out who stayed, who left, who died? If they died, is there any recovery of bodies?

 

"We" (they) figure it out by going house to house and looking. It's what happened after Katrina, and it's what'll happen here too. If people died, there is of course going to be a recovery of bodies. You're not suggesting that they would just leave the bodies there, are you? There's nothing in our history to suggest that that I'm aware of.

 

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

 

Ya know, if we follow this line of thinking, the entire state of Florida should just be permanently evacuated. And California (earthquakes). And tornado alley.

 

I understand that earthquakes happen suddenly, with no notice. But they've been warning for years about the "big one" that is certainly coming. Yet people stay. I can tell you that if I received prior warning that a devastating earthquake or tornado or hurricane or avalanche or mud slide etc. were coming, I'd skeedaddle! For whatever reason, people choose to stay. We as a society go back and rescue or recover them afterwards. We recover, we rebuild, and -- at times -- repeat. It's what Americans do. That's why Ground Zero and parts of New Orleans are head-scratchers to me: what the heck is taking so long??? We aren't a country who bows down to devastation and says, "you win." We fight back, rebuild in defiance.

 

Part of this is personal responsibility, not the responsibility of society in general. As I said above, if I was told to evacuate, I would. But then I'd come back when I could, accept the help so graciously offered, and move on. I've seen places in N.O. that STILL have families living in them with no furniture, boxes all over the house, messy, dirty, YUCK. WHY????? There were six people living in this one house -- none of them can move boxes? Are you kidding me????

 

I'm rambling. I haven't had any coffee yet. But I've got to add that the 5-mile island I vacation on every summer is a barrier island off the south jersey coast. We've had a few hurricanes, but not many. If a Category 1 hit it, it would have a lot of damage; a Category 2 or 3 would destroy it completely. And I would be devastated. But I would be there in a heartbeat helping people recover and rebuild. It's home to me; a slice of heaven. And I'm not willing to lose it to a little wind and rain (or a lot of wind and rain).

 

I need coffee.... :auto:

[Jeannie in NJ]

Deb, I live on barrier island off of S. Jersey "America's Greatest Family Resort" . The only manatory evacation we have had since I have lived here was way back for Hurricane Gloria. Dh was in Philly working and I had to evacuate myself to Philly. The amazing thing was that everyone still had to stop at the toll booths and pay tolls (there ended up being quite a stink about this) and this is before ez pass so everyone had to stop , no driving thru the tolls.

 

Anyway, back then it was just me that I had to worry about, now it would be 2 dc and 7 cats (I actually bought 3 large carriers that fit in the back of my SUV that all 7 can fit into).

[TraceyS/FL]

"We" (they) figure it out by going house to house and looking. It's what happened after Katrina, and it's what'll happen here too. If people died, there is of course going to be a recovery of bodies. You're not suggesting that they would just leave the bodies there, are you? There's nothing in our history to suggest that that I'm aware of.

 

These guys. Armed with a paint can & an axe. I can't imagine what a horrid job this must be (my brother is a firefighter & my SIL is a paramedic). My thoughts and prayers go not only to the families seeking news of loved ones that these searches will bring, but also to the ones that are doing the searching - the things they will see. :grouphug:

 

Groundhog Day Tornado, Feb 2, 2007, Lady Lake, FL (taken in my backyard)

 

(and i know this picture will be considered irrelevant by some, but when you have lived thru a natural disaster (like and EF3 dropping in in the middle of the night), it tends to change how you view things. You see things you never thought you'd see.... you heart goes out to the heroes that do their daily job and will do their daily job. No matter if they think you should have left or not - it's not their job to help you pick up the pieces.

 

The pictures on the news were hard to look at - knowing they will, but hoping they won't, find more loss of life. )

[elegantlion]

Ya know, if we follow this line of thinking, the entire state of Florida should just be permanently evacuated. And California (earthquakes). And tornado alley.

 

I understand that earthquakes happen suddenly, with no notice. But they've been warning for years about the "big one" that is certainly coming. Yet people stay. I can tell you that if I received prior warning that a devastating earthquake or tornado or hurricane or avalanche or mud slide etc. were coming, I'd skeedaddle! For whatever reason, people choose to stay. We as a society go back and rescue or recover them afterwards. We recover, we rebuild, and -- at times -- repeat. It's what Americans do. That's why Ground Zero and parts of New Orleans are head-scratchers to me: what the heck is taking so long??? We aren't a country who bows down to devastation and says, "you win." We fight back, rebuild in defiance.

 

Part of this is personal responsibility, not the responsibility of society in general. As I said above, if I was told to evacuate, I would. But then I'd come back when I could, accept the help so graciously offered, and move on. I've seen places in N.O. that STILL have families living in them with no furniture, boxes all over the house, messy, dirty, YUCK. WHY????? There were six people living in this one house -- none of them can move boxes? Are you kidding me????

 

I'm rambling. I haven't had any coffee yet. But I've got to add that the 5-mile island I vacation on every summer is a barrier island off the south jersey coast. We've had a few hurricanes, but not many. If a Category 1 hit it, it would have a lot of damage; a Category 2 or 3 would destroy it completely. And I would be devastated. But I would be there in a heartbeat helping people recover and rebuild. It's home to me; a slice of heaven. And I'm not willing to lose it to a little wind and rain (or a lot of wind and rain).

 

I need coffee.... :auto:

 

:iagree: I need more coffee as well, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Mama Lynx]

What areas have zero chances of natural disaster? Are those the only places we should allow people to live? I've seen my hometown hit by tornados several times.

 

But some places are statistically, predictably far more prone to natural disaster than others. If you live on the TX coast, at some point you're pretty certain to get slammed by a hurricane. If you are in a low area, or an island off the coast, you are certain to have flooding.

 

I used to live in Oklahoma City. Even there, the statistical chance of your house being hit by a tornado was pretty small.

 

I think people should be allowed to live wherever they want to. However, if they choose to live in a statistically disaster-prone area, I think it's fair to charge higher insurance rates, and to not receive disaster recovery money from the federal government more than once.

[Nestof3]

For the loss of life, pets, property, the effect on the economy.

 

IME, it happens with nearly every dramatic event, natural or man made.

 

It's already starting.

 

How can the gov't be blamed? I just don't understand.

[Mama Lynx]

"We" (they) figure it out by going house to house and looking. It's what happened after Katrina, and it's what'll happen here too. If people died, there is of course going to be a recovery of bodies. You're not suggesting that they would just leave the bodies there, are you?

 

I thought she was simply referring to how monumental the task seems, and how the devastation is so complete that perhaps there aren't that many bodies to be found.

[DB in NJ]

I thought she was simply referring to how monumental the task seems, and how the devastation is so complete that perhaps there aren't that many bodies to be found.

 

 

That could be. Thanks.

[DB in NJ]

Deb, I live on barrier island off of S. Jersey "America's Greatest Family Resort" . The only manatory evacation we have had since I have lived here was way back for Hurricane Gloria. Dh was in Philly working and I had to evacuate myself to Philly. The amazing thing was that everyone still had to stop at the toll booths and pay tolls (there ended up being quite a stink about this) and this is before ez pass so everyone had to stop , no driving thru the tolls.

 

Anyway, back then it was just me that I had to worry about, now it would be 2 dc and 7 cats (I actually bought 3 large carriers that fit in the back of my SUV that all 7 can fit into).

 

 

We were in Wildwood during Hurricane Agnes (1972'ish). Part of our roof was gone, there was a puddle on the floor next to my bed -- actually the puddle was where my bed used to be. My bed wasn't where it was when I got in it the night before. Cars were pushed into each other out front, the damage was amazing.

 

I can't imagine them making you pay those stupid parkway tolls!!!!!! GRRRRRR!!! You'd think during an emergency evacuation.....well, this is jersey. The cost of living in paradise....

 

We were down there during Hanna. How did you guys make out? We had some water leak in through our hotel windows, but during a break in the rain, we went to the beach and walked quite a bit. We saw where the storm surge had come in -- cut a huge swath out of the beach. Amazing. The ocean was a tremendous, amazing, powerful site to behold.

 

See, it's glorious there even during a storm. I can't imagine it being devasted and just walking away without rebuilding. I can't imagine....

[Michelle in MO]

The complete evaporation of the homes, businessess, structures. The complete wipe out of the community.

 

Whole streets, disintergrated, gone. Lost. Empty.

 

How do "we" figure out who stayed, who left, who died? If they died, is there any recovery of bodies?

 

How many people can we be talking about?

 

I'm going to *hate* the human reaction to blame people, the government, "something" to explain this.

 

Finally, is it responsible to rebuild in devastation prone areas?

 

especially your last statement, Joanne. I think perhaps that when someone has lived in an area that is prone to certain problems, be it floods, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, etc., that it is very hard to leave family and leave that location. I can't really offer any solution on this. I would think that, after such devastation, there would definitely be more impetus to leave.

[elegantlion]

 

We were down there during Hanna. How did you guys make out? We had some water leak in through our hotel windows, but during a break in the rain, we went to the beach and walked quite a bit. We saw where the storm surge had come in -- cut a huge swath out of the beach. Amazing. The ocean was a tremendous, amazing, powerful site to behold.

 

See, it's glorious there even during a storm. I can't imagine it being devasted and just walking away without rebuilding. I can't imagine....

 

That, my dear, is why I shall build my beach house next to yours. :grouphug:

[Aubrey]

After the initial press blackout, I was just stunned to see on-location pix from the peninsula today...

 

I can't speak to the wisdom of rebuilding there, nor to the intentions of the residents who remained. My heart is just so heavy.

 

And Crystal Beach was not only the beach when I was growing up in the Golden Triangle, it became a beloved family vacation spot for dee-aitch and I. We had already booked a beachfront house for the last week of September. :( I am so, so sad for the loss of life, the loss of homes...the memories that won't now be made.

 

Yep. My dad lived in Crystal Beach after he & mom divorced. He lived there until he married Wife 2. My sis grad from hs there. We stayed there when we went to spread his ashes. I will always think of him there. I'd just as soon think of the area as undamaged, kwim?

[TN Mama]

Deb, I live on barrier island off of S. Jersey "America's Greatest Family Resort" . The only manatory evacation we have had since I have lived here was way back for Hurricane Gloria. Dh was in Philly working and I had to evacuate myself to Philly. The amazing thing was that everyone still had to stop at the toll booths and pay tolls (there ended up being quite a stink about this) and this is before ez pass so everyone had to stop , no driving thru the tolls.

 

Anyway, back then it was just me that I had to worry about, now it would be 2 dc and 7 cats (I actually bought 3 large carriers that fit in the back of my SUV that all 7 can fit into).

 

Oh and they would NOT stop playing that awful song by Laura Branigan! I lived in coastal CT during Gloria.

[Joanne]

"We" (they) figure it out by going house to house and looking. It's what happened after Katrina, and it's what'll happen here too. If people died, there is of course going to be a recovery of bodies. You're not suggesting that they would just leave the bodies there, are you? There's nothing in our history to suggest that that I'm aware of.

 

I'm sorry; I was not in a mode to write with specific clarity.

 

These are "beach front" communities where dozens of homes are gone. No wood, windows, appliances. The only thing left are pilings and foundations of the stilts the home rested on.

 

My query on how and whether to recover those bodies is because if people were in those homes during the surge (think tsunami), the people were carried away with the rest of the home.

 

I'm *certainly* not suggesting we not recover them; I'm lamenting that there may not be bodies.

[missplacedalaskan]

I think the devastation along the Coast in many areas will leave the "door open" for big businesses to come in and build large resort communities. We have watched this happen in the Biloxi area. The new building codes and insurance fee's are so great that many people along the coast were unable to rebuild. We are seeing a lot of condo's being built.

[Mamasteff]

As someone living in a quake zone - my heart goes out to all who have suffered during and after the hurricane, and to the heroes helping rescue and clean up (shocked to read about Bolivar peninsula).

 

I find it interesting that this has been going on FOREVER.

 

Last year in learning about California history, we learned that at least 2 of the missions founded by Franciscan priests had to be moved. Why? Well, the native peoples in the area told them "Don't build there. It floods." The fathers did not listen, and the missions were washed away (one more than once!) before they finally moved.

 

This was 300 years ago. Things have not changed. People will decide they want to live where they want to live; the government (or the native tribes!) can't tell them anything or warn them, they're going to do as they please... and people will die and possessions will be lost.

[Mamagistra]

I'd just as soon think of the area as undamaged, kwim?

 

I thought of you when we were there last April. Here is the house that we loved; I am trying to remember it this way.

 

 

:sad:

[Jugglin'5]

We always go to Crystal Beach in September, too!:sad: It is so much less crowded than Galveston. Now I wonder if it is going to become a much pricier resort area - if and when they build everything new. Poorer, working people may be priced out , which will be sad in my book. Coastal living should not only be for rich people. The thing is, fishermen and shrimpers and others of a modest income make their homes there, and I'm not sure it is fair to deride their choice to live there. If you want to eat shrimp or oysters, someone has to live there! I remember people making these same comments about the Iowa and Midwestern floods -"Nobody has any business living that close to a river!" It was so stupid. Cities grow up on the rivers and coasts because of trade and commerce. Gee - if they would just read their ""Story of the World I" about Mesopotamia and the Nile River:), maybe people wouldn't pop off these thoughtless comments. The Port of Houston is one of the largest ports in the world. And ports have to be near coasts.

[elegantlion]

We had just discovered these great little beach areas west of Holly Beach. It's in the background of my avatar. It was like having a private beach. After looking at the video of that area yesterday I'm afraid all the beach is now gone in that area.

[Jugglin'5]

Isn't it sad? :crying:

 

We had just discovered these great little beach areas west of Holly Beach. It's in the background of my avatar. It was like having a private beach. After looking at the video of that area yesterday I'm afraid all the beach is now gone in that area.

[DB in NJ]

I'm sorry; I was not in a mode to write with specific clarity.

 

These are "beach front" communities where dozens of homes are gone. No wood, windows, appliances. The only thing left are pilings and foundations of the stilts the home rested on.

 

My query on how and whether to recover those bodies is because if people were in those homes during the surge (think tsunami), the people were carried away with the rest of the home.

 

I'm *certainly* not suggesting we not recover them; I'm lamenting that there may not be bodies.

 

Mama Lynx suggested that's what you meant; I pray to God that's not the case.

[lovemyboys]

But some places are statistically, predictably far more prone to natural disaster than others.

 

I think people should be allowed to live wherever they want to. However, if they choose to live in a statistically disaster-prone area, I think it's fair to charge higher insurance rates, and to not receive disaster recovery money from the federal government more than once.

 

Having lived in a number of coastal areas and having lived along flood-prone rivers, I have to agree with you on this.

 

I have a dear aunt who has lived on a small branch of a major river for 30 years. She knows that the river will flood every couple years and that every 5-8 years she'll get a flooded out basement. Once about 10 years ago, the water rose high enough to flood half of her 1st floor as well. Fortunately the dog woke them and they were able to evacuate.

 

She thinks it is worth the price of insurance and mucking out the basement (unfinished) every few years to live along the banks of the river. For her, the trade is worth it. Most of the time, her spot is simply idyllic.

 

As long as she (and others) don't ask the rest of us to subsidize their higher insurance rates or rebuilding expenses, I think it's fine to let people live where they wish. I would also expect them to evacuate to safety when a huge storm is coming (like a predictable hurricane), for their own safety and that of the rescue personnel.

 

My heart just goes out to the folks in these devastated areas. The pictures have been incredible, it's amazing and wonderful that some folks were able to survive. The people in Miss/Ala. are just now getting things back to normal, 3 years later.

[lovemyboys]

Oh and they would NOT stop playing that awful song by Laura Branigan! I lived in coastal CT during Gloria.

 

So did we!

I never forget the name of that hurricane because they played that Gloria song incessantly! We've lived through others, but that's the easiest one to recall. That and the fact that it was pretty weird for CT to have hurricane. We had a gas stove so we were the only ones who could cook, we had lots of friends for dinner for a week or more!

[HomeOnTheRanch]

After the initial press blackout, I was just stunned to see on-location pix from the peninsula today...

 

I can't speak to the wisdom of rebuilding there, nor to the intentions of the residents who remained. My heart is just so heavy.

 

And Crystal Beach was not only the beach when I was growing up in the Golden Triangle, it became a beloved family vacation spot for dee-aitch and I. We had already booked a beachfront house for the last week of September. :( I am so, so sad for the loss of life, the loss of homes...the memories that won't now be made.

 

I understand. The house my parents rented for a whole family vacation a few years ago on Dauphin Island, AL vanished in Hurricane Ivan. Fortunately, there was no loss of life on the island during that hurricane, but it is eerie to only have pictures of the house and know that it just does not exist anymore.

 

:grouphug:

[DB in NJ]

That, my dear, is why I shall build my beach house next to yours. :grouphug:

 

Now *that* sounds heavenly!

 

:grouphug:

[Kate CA]

I cannot answer your questions, but this one statement left me confused. I very sincerely wish these horrible things would never happen.

 

 

 

Blame for what exactly? I cannot think of what the gov't could possibly be blamed for. ???

 

This story is an example of someone blaming the government. You know I really am so sorry that people suffered and that so many people died, but at the end of the day we are responsible for ourselves. People were told for days and days to get out. Some of these people waited until the last day and then got caught in the storm surge. It is truly tragic, but what is more tragic is that it was preventable. People could have left earlier.

 

The affects of storms are not the government's fault. My dad works for FEMA and he was telling me that they tell everyone to have enough supplies for your whole family for at least three days. This is from FEMA's site:

 

 

Assemble a Disaster Supplies Kit

 

 

 

You may need to survive on your own after a disaster. This means having your own food, water, and other supplies in sufficient quantity to last for at least three days. Local officials and relief workers will be on the scene after a disaster, but they cannot reach everyone immediately. You could get help in hours, or it might take days.

 

 

This is not new. This man, as sad as his story is, should be responsible for himself and his family - same with all of us. FEMA and/or Gov. Perry is not responsible.

[Robin in Tx]

I would agree with everything you said, Kate, except for this:

 

People were told for days and days to get out. Some of these people waited until the last day and then got caught in the storm surge

.

 

That is absolutely not true. As late as Wednesday night, the mayor of Galveston said "no evacuation" and was planning to open shelters instead. A prominent news station with a past president of the National Hurricane Center on the weather team staff was saying on Wednesday night that the storm was predicated to weaken and come in as a category 1 storm. The mayor didn't decide to order an evacuation until Thursday. Citizens were told, in general, that conditions would begin to deteriorate Friday morning and to get out by then. All the people on Bolivar peninsula who intended to evacuate Friday morning woke up to a storm surge that came in surprisingly early and stranded them with flooded roads. It's not because they waited till the last minute. 12-18 hours in advance of the storm is usually plenty of time, and no one predicted the earliness of the surge... so no one stressed on Thursday when the evacuations were ordered that the evacuations needed to be completed that very day. I can not stress enough how important these details are... my sister lives on Galveston Island and she was told to evacuate by noon Friday. Noon Friday was too late for many, many people. It was even dangerous to drive over the bridge/causeway to the mainland at noon on Friday because of winds.

 

On Galveston, behind the seawall, people were still able to get out Friday morning. But still, it is not true that they were given days and days. They were given one day. And even then, the mayor not only set up shelters on Galveston island (which they NEVER do for hurricanes! it encourages people to stay!), but she was saying on television that her house survived a cat 3 storm and this is only a cat 2... she really did convey a "not too awful worried" attitude.

 

I agree, though, about FEMA not really responsible for providing for people in the first 72 hours. They never said they would or should - they made that part perfectly clear. Major roads to the area Sunday were still flooded. People do need to heed the warnings re: necessary supplies. If they didn't do that, then that really is their fault and they can't blame FEMA. I've been sicked by the way the FEMA people have been attacked by the media for not doing more sooner. But I've also been a little ticked at the mayor of Galveston, too... she was a little careless about the evacuation issue, and now she's being careless about letting people back on to assess the damage to their properties. Instead of coming up with an organized plan (allow people in by geographic groups, etc.) she just said "come on!" and now everyone is backed up on the freeway for as far as the eye can see trying to onto the island. You can't let tens of thousands of people in at once if you intend to stop every car and check their i.d.

 

Ugh...

[stephanie]

After the initial press blackout, I was just stunned to see on-location pix from the peninsula today...

 

I can't speak to the wisdom of rebuilding there, nor to the intentions of the residents who remained. My heart is just so heavy.

 

And Crystal Beach was not only the beach when I was growing up in the Golden Triangle, it became a beloved family vacation spot for dee-aitch and I. We had already booked a beachfront house for the last week of September. :( I am so, so sad for the loss of life, the loss of homes...the memories that won't now be made.

 

You are so right....it's the only beach me and my kids have ever known. Well, there's Galveston, but we now can't get to what's left. We just went down to Pleasure Island in Port Arthur to check out the Yacht Club where our family's boat is, and it was complete devastation. It was like looking at 500 boats thrown on top of each other, smashing into each other. There was a boat that was completely through the office there. There were tons of nutra rats scattered along with water moccasins. We were emptying out our cousins boat, and there were live snakes in it. It was very scary. They roads are completely gone, covered with marsh grass. It's so sad. Our cousin lost his home on the bayou, his boat on the island, and his beach cabin on Crystal Beach. He lost everything. Fortunately, he's well off, and can manage, but it's overwhelming. Looking at it, you don't even know where to begin. It's like that everywhere coastal. It is rumored that bodies are floating all over Bolivar Peninsula, but we've heard that cemetaries have unearthed, and the bodies of the passed are the ones floating...I hope that's so. I'm so sad for those families of those graves, but I hate to think of that many lives lost.

[Kate CA]

I would agree with everything you said, Kate, except for this:

 

.

 

That is absolutely not true. As late as Wednesday night, the mayor of Galveston said "no evacuation" and was planning to open shelters instead. A prominent news station with a past president of the National Hurricane Center on the weather team staff was saying on Wednesday night that the storm was predicated to weaken and come in as a category 1 storm. The mayor didn't decide to order an evacuation until Thursday. Citizens were told, in general, that conditions would begin to deteriorate Friday morning and to get out by then. All the people on Bolivar peninsula who intended to evacuate Friday morning woke up to a storm surge that came in surprisingly early and stranded them with flooded roads. It's not because they waited till the last minute. 12-18 hours in advance of the storm is usually plenty of time, and no one predicted the earliness of the surge... so no one stressed on Thursday when the evacuations were ordered that the evacuations needed to be completed that very day. I can not stress enough how important these details are... my sister lives on Galveston Island and she was told to evacuate by noon Friday. Noon Friday was too late for many, many people. It was even dangerous to drive over the bridge/causeway to the mainland at noon on Friday because of winds.

Well that is truly awful! All I am going by are the reports that came out on all stations - the evacuate or you will die kind of reports. To me that said if you are in the line of fire of this hurricane you had best get out. Those kind of reports had been going on for days. I feel horrible for your sister and truly hope she is OK!!

 

I think it is all very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback from CA - and I totally recognize that this is not my area's natural disaster. I have to honestly wonder though, a) why the mayor was so ill-informed and b) why folks listened to the mayor (not a specialist in weather I would guess) when it seems the rest of the media was saying get out.

 

Perhaps there is a real danger of hurricane fatigue. There seems to be a lot of truly crying wolf in the media, as it seems people aren't listening. Really though, Robin, I just don't get *anyone's* choice to stay when something as gigantic as Ike was coming towards them. It takes a simple view online of the satellite pictures to show any thinking person this was a gigantic storm and that the fact that it was so slow moving could cause true havoc on the coast. It is hard for me to get why folks thought it was wise to stay. Ultimately we are responsible for finding out the dangers if we can do so no matter how inept our local/national leadership might possibly be.

 

But I've also been a little ticked at the mayor of Galveston, too... she was a little careless about the evacuation issue, and now she's being careless about letting people back on to assess the damage to their properties. Instead of coming up with an organized plan (allow people in by geographic groups, etc.) she just said "come on!" and now everyone is backed up on the freeway for as far as the eye can see trying to onto the island. You can't let tens of thousands of people in at once if you intend to stop every car and check their i.d.

 

Ugh...

 

It sounds like the next mayoral election should bring another mayor. One would hope!

[Robin in Tx]

I just don't get *anyone's* choice to stay when something as gigantic as Ike was coming towards them.

 

First, there will always be people who stay. I can't figure it out, either. People stayed on the side of Mt. St. Helen (do I have that right?) knowing that it was getting ready to blow... Some people are just suicidal, I suppose. I called them idiots elsewhere an dI think I offended a few, so I won't go that far again :).

 

But besides them, there are some other groups here...

 

1) the people who scrambled to evacuate at first dawn Friday morning and got cut off by flooded streets, and

 

2) the people who only saw this as a category 2 storm. Remember, we had a cat 3 storm about 25 years ago which many remember and still talk about. It didn't do as much damage as Ike even though it was a stronger storm. People mistakenly viewed Ike as less than what it really was because of the current system of rating hurricanes, which takes into consideration wind speed only - not storm surge. Ike's storm surge was more than the cat 3 storm in 1983. That was not expected by the general public, to be honest.

 

I don't recall the "certain death" warnings coming out until Thursday or Friday. I actually think it was Friday, not Thursday, but I could be wrong. The bouys that measure wave height are all within a couple of hundred nautical miles of the coast, and the alarm began after Ike got that close. Also, up until Wednesday, Ike was headed to the mid or southern coast of Texas. By Wednesday morning, when models began to agree it would track towards us, mandatory evacuations were issued on the mainland south and west of Galveston. The mayor of Galveston had the same info as everyone else, but she was in the "but it's only a cat 2 storm" mindset and either chose to ignore the potential hazard or simply didn't think things through very well. I'm leaning towards the later since she is showing that tendency repeatedly. The main three networks down here did not challenge her decision or give information that would make it look like people should evacuate even if not told to. The only people who really knew what was coming down the pike was people like me who read weather message boards, listening to what professionals are saying about this. I really don't want to get to a point where we expect the general public to be THAT informed... if my mother were alive, she wouldn't even know how to get on the internet and if she did she was blind in her final years and couldn't read it anyway. I would have never suggested that she should have been responsible for educating herself about these sort of things.

 

also, a lot of respect and stock is placed in the opinion of the NHC guy who was with the station that reported as late as Wednesday nigiht that Ike should weaken and turn towards Louisana by landfall. When a trusted hurricane expert with years of experience and reputation in the area tells you that, and the mayor says "no mandatory evacuations"... you let your guard down. I think that's reasonable.

 

P.S. Tell your dad thank you for his service. 99.9% of us think they're doing a FANTASTIC job and we appreciate all the hard work!

[cathmom]

IMO barrier islands should be campgrounds with no permanent structures. And I don't even like camping! :)

[Kate CA]

First, there will always be people who stay. I can't figure it out, either. People stayed on the side of Mt. St. Helen (do I have that right?) knowing that it was getting ready to blow... Some people are just suicidal, I suppose. I called them idiots elsewhere an dI think I offended a few, so I won't go that far again :).

 

I understand! :+) Yes, there were people killed in the Mt. St. Helen's explosion due to being on or near the mountain.

 

But besides them, there are some other groups here...

 

1) the people who scrambled to evacuate at first dawn Friday morning and got cut off by flooded streets, and

 

2) the people who only saw this as a category 2 storm. Remember, we had a cat 3 storm about 25 years ago which many remember and still talk about. It didn't do as much damage as Ike even though it was a stronger storm. People mistakenly viewed Ike as less than what it really was because of the current system of rating hurricanes, which takes into consideration wind speed only - not storm surge. Ike's storm surge was more than the cat 3 storm in 1983. That was not expected by the general public, to be honest.

 

I don't recall the "certain death" warnings coming out until Thursday or Friday. I actually think it was Friday, not Thursday, but I could be wrong. The bouys that measure wave height are all within a couple of hundred nautical miles of the coast, and the alarm began after Ike got that close. Also, up until Wednesday, Ike was headed to the mid or southern coast of Texas. By Wednesday morning, when models began to agree it would track towards us, mandatory evacuations were issued on the mainland south and west of Galveston. The mayor of Galveston had the same info as everyone else, but she was in the "but it's only a cat 2 storm" mindset and either chose to ignore the potential hazard or simply didn't think things through very well. I'm leaning towards the later since she is showing that tendency repeatedly. The main three networks down here did not challenge her decision or give information that would make it look like people should evacuate even if not told to. The only people who really knew what was coming down the pike was people like me who read weather message boards, listening to what professionals are saying about this. I really don't want to get to a point where we expect the general public to be THAT informed... if my mother were alive, she wouldn't even know how to get on the internet and if she did she was blind in her final years and couldn't read it anyway. I would have never suggested that she should have been responsible for educating herself about these sort of things.

 

also, a lot of respect and stock is placed in the opinion of the NHC guy who was with the station that reported as late as Wednesday nigiht that Ike should weaken and turn towards Louisana by landfall. When a trusted hurricane expert with years of experience and reputation in the area tells you that, and the mayor says "no mandatory evacuations"... you let your guard down. I think that's reasonable.

 

P.S. Tell your dad thank you for his service. 99.9% of us think they're doing a FANTASTIC job and we appreciate all the hard work!

 

Yes, I totally understand what you are saying and I agree with you on the elderly and infirm - completely! It is really really tragic all around and it sounds like there was some serious errors on the part of the local media and authorities. It is just horrible.

 

Part of it on my end is that I have never lived in an area that experiences these kinds of things so to me I see this gigantic storm and I think - holy moly!! There are people *staying* through this thing?! I would have likely been out of there days in advance because it is all foreign to me. I am, after all, a CA girl with on earthquake experience under my belt. :)

 

Anyway, thanks for the props for my dad. They do work hard and it has been a real eye opener listening to him.

[Nestof3]

FEMA and/or Gov. Perry is not responsible.

 

You know, even the gov't cannot predict exactly what a storm is going to do. Good grief, some people think the gov't is God!

[Kate CA]

You know, even the gov't cannot predict exactly what a storm is going to do. Good grief, some people think the gov't is God!

 

No kidding! :tongue_smilie: