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Allow me to officially state that I'm glad we live in more modern times...


creekland
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Saw this on one of my student's Bio projects (Bubonic Plague):

 

Treatments when plague first started:

 

Sanitation: Infected bodies should be burned and all streets should be cleaned of human and animal leftovers. Human clothes also burned away from village.

 

Lancing the buboes: Swellings should be cut open to let the disease to exit the body. Mixture of tree resin, roots of white lilies and dried human excrement should be applied to open areas.

 

Bleeding: Veins leading to heart should be cut so plague leaves the body ointment made of clay and violets should be applied.

 

Witchcraft: Live hen next to the swelling to draw out the pestilence. To aid drink a glass of own urine twice a day.

 
 
Treatments for plague now:
 

Antibiotics:


Streptomycin: Powerful antibiotic that inhibits growth of bacteria while having very little effect on eukaryotes. It blocks protein synthesis by binding to the bacterial ribosome.


Gentamicin: Works by stopping the growth of certain bacteria. It belongs to a class of drugs known as aminoglycoside antibiotics. This antibiotic only treats bacterial infections. It will not work for virus or fungus infections.

 

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Studying history definitely makes one more appreciative of the present! I get upset sometimes because it's worrisome raising a daughter in a world where women are less appreciated than men. Then last year, we studied Herodotus, and I read all the delightful stories of systematic forced prostitution and realized that 21st century America is actually a pretty nifty time and place to be a woman.

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Studying history definitely makes one more appreciative of the present! I get upset sometimes because it's worrisome raising a daughter in a world where women are less appreciated than men. Then last year, we studied Herodotus, and I read all the delightful stories of systematic forced prostitution and realized that 21st century America is actually a pretty nifty time and place to be a woman.

 

As a female, I'd have never survived most of history since I missed the correct line to receive practically all the "girl characteristics" we were supposed to get prior to birth.  I've often mused that I was likely looking at travel brochures instead.   :coolgleamA:

 

And as a female I still really feel for those who aren't as fortunate with their birth lottery.  There are many places today where I wouldn't have done well either.

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And as a female I still really feel for those who aren't as fortunate with their birth lottery. There are many places today where I wouldn't have done well either.

Indeed!

 

I don't know if you or your student might have any interest in a fictional account of the plague sweeping through one little village in England, but I recently read The Doomesday Book by Connie Willis, and I thought it was quite good. It's actually part science fiction, part historical fiction. The story starts in a future Oxford where there's a time travelling machine. A young historian gets sent back to just *before* the plague hit England -- well, that was the intention. There was a bit of a mixup. I don't want to give anything else away, but I will warn you that it's not for the faint of heart -- I certainly wouldn't recommend that my daughter read it because it does contain some pretty intense and graphic passages of suffering and death. There may be better options in historical fiction, I don't know. I was reading through the list of Hugo and Nebula award winners. :)

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what?  no leaches????

 

might I refer you to the SNL skits on Theodoric of York, Medieval Barber.

 

Given a choice, I'd take the leeches over a bandage that included dried human excrement, while drinking urine, and socializing with a hen.  And we'd best not forget having those veins to the heart opened up, but hey, at least those get violets...

 

It makes me wonder if more might have survived the plague without "treatment!"

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Oh, thank you so much for sharing that, Creekland.  The thought of one "drinking two glasses of one's own urine" went so nicely with my morning coffee! :ack2:

 

(And, no, I will not take responsibility for having chosen to read the thread. You tempted me! :p )

 

Bet it made your coffee taste better when you think about it long enough.  :laugh:

 

I've been enjoying grading these projects - all on a disease, illness, or toxin/venom of their choice.

 

One class is complete.  I have one more class to go through.  I'm curious what else I'm going to learn about.  Many kids have chosen things that have affected them or family members.  Others like the venomous snakes/spiders.  Then some have chosen other "famous" types (like the plague or malaria, etc).

 

This is the first one that showed me the difference between modern and old treatments.  I told them there's 10 extra credit points available for "something creative" above and beyond what I asked for.  That worked. ;)

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Indeed!

 

I don't know if you or your student might have any interest in a fictional account of the plague sweeping through one little village in England, but I recently read The Doomesday Book by Connie Willis, and I thought it was quite good. It's actually part science fiction, part historical fiction. The story starts in a future Oxford where there's a time travelling machine. A young historian gets sent back to just *before* the plague hit England -- well, that was the intention. There was a bit of a mixup. I don't want to give anything else away, but I will warn you that it's not for the faint of heart -- I certainly wouldn't recommend that my daughter read it because it does contain some pretty intense and graphic passages of suffering and death. There may be better options in historical fiction, I don't know. I was reading through the list of Hugo and Nebula award winners. :)

Loved that book in college and just re-read it since we are studying that time period soon.  I am considering DD and I reading it together since she loves SciFi.

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This stuff is part of why I brush off comments of "what is the world coming to/things these days are so awful". Much of the world is coming to a lot of pretty nice things all things considered. That said it's important to remember that most of us are not only fortunate for the time we were born in but the places we were born in.

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These things always make me wonder what we are doing now that people will shake their heads at in 100 years.

 

I woke up to this on the radio this morning, so I am thinking maybe we will actually be closer to the plague years:

 

Antibiotic resistance could threaten surgery, chemo patients - To help prevent superbugs, say no to antibiotics for coughs or colds, ask for meat that's antibiotic-free

 

Feeding low dose antibiotics to livestock might be right up there on the really stupid meter.

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I had a friend who tended to romanticize the past. Once she commented that she didn't think the middle ageswere so bad, that at least the people were moral, and women weren't really treated so badly. There are many things that are wrong in our time, but I'm very happy to be alive now. Books are about as close I care to get to the past.

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Given a choice, I'd take the leeches over a bandage that included dried human excrement, while drinking urine, and socializing with a hen.  And we'd best not forget having those veins to the heart opened up, but hey, at least those get violets...

 

It makes me wonder if more might have survived the plague without "treatment!"

 

urine is actually sterile - and can be used in dire circumstances in place of water.

it wasn't that long ago surgeons smoked in the operating room.

 

semmelwiess was in charge of the maternity unit at the poor hospital in vienna.  he made his drs wash, no smoking, etc.  needless to say, the women on his floor had better outcomes than the "rich" hospital.  rich women wanted to deliver at the poor hospital because they had a better chance of survival.  the drs under him were so angry, they actually conspired to have him locked up in an insane asylum.  that was 20 years before pastuer.

 

I recall a talk one of our church leaders gave years ago.  He's a cardiac surgeon, and talked about all the admonitions of "washing" in leviticus. (which reduces microbes being spread). semelwiess was jewish - so he was also familiar with those admonitions and applied them on his obstectrical floor.  which infuriated the other drs.

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Gee, I'm happy to have indoor plumbing. Clearly I'm a lightweight.

 

 

the 12 - 18 yo girls at church do a "camp" for a week every summer.  they have biffys.  one  was so happy to be back in the land of indoor plumbing - before even unloading her stuff from my car, she ran inside to flush the toilet.  (didn't use it, just flushed it.)

 

I have good reason to believe without modern medicine, I'd have died years ago.

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Creekland,  Could you share the specifics of the project requirements?  This looks like something that I might want to have ds15 and dd13 do this year.  It looks like some of the students are really stepping up to the plate.  

 

Sure!  I have several students in these classes who want to head into the medical profession in one form or another (doctors, nurses, biomedical engineers, etc), so I came up with the following to fill their time during two days while I was playing hooky visiting middle son.

 

In person I told them about the 10 pts in extra credit if they find something creative to offer beyond what I asked for.

 

I've gotten some very nice projects in.  It makes me feel good about the future of our society!

 

-------------------------------------------------------

When Homeostasis Needs Help

 

Choose a condition where medical intervention is necessary to keep the human body functioning correctly.  This can be anything from a serious illness/disease (viruses, cancers, disorders, etc) to outside interactions (venomous snake/spider bites, contact with poisons, etc).

 

Create a power point or project detailing:

 

What the condition is in both science and layman's terms (common English).  Pictures/diagrams are good. Be very specific with selecting a condition.  One type of cancer or ONE venomous snake, etc, not broad groups.

 

     - What, specifically, is out of line in the body AND needs medical intervention?

     - What does the medical intervention do?

     - Be exact with organs, tissues, enzymes, and/or cell parts, etc, affected, but also explain in layman's terms if needed.  If you have to look up a word, assume others need it defined.

 

Are there any temporary or lasting side effects due to the intervention?

 

What are the success rates?

 

Is it complete return to normal or are there permanent or lingering problems?

 

Remember to cite your sources, including pictures.

 

Spelling counts!  

 

Proper writing (grammar, punctuation) counts!

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I had a friend who tended to romanticize the past. Once she commented that she didn't think the middle ageswere so bad, that at least the people were moral, and women weren't really treated so badly. There are many things that are wrong in our time, but I'm very happy to be alive now. Books are about as close I care to get to the past.

 

 

was everything she learned about the middle ages from movies made in the 40s & 50s?

 

it was pretty brutal, and life expectencies were short.

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urine is actually sterile - and can be used in dire circumstances in place of water.

it wasn't that long ago surgeons smoked in the operating room.

 

semmelwiess was in charge of the maternity unit at the poor hospital in vienna.  he made his drs wash, no smoking, etc.  needless to say, the women on his floor had better outcomes than the "rich" hospital.  rich women wanted to deliver at the poor hospital because they had a better chance of survival.  the drs under him were so angry, they actually conspired to have him locked up in an insane asylum.  that was 20 years before pastuer.

 

 

This is all info I actually knew from some point or another in my past.  The urine part I knew from survival training in the air force.  Fortunately, we didn't have to test it as there's still that ick factor when it comes to drinking it.  I'd be better with it on wounds if needed.

 

The washing hands bit I'm pretty sure I picked up from one of the many documentary type videos we watched with my guys growing up - possibly a Modern Marvels as they were terrific with historical beginnings to things.

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This is all info I actually knew from some point or another in my past.  The urine part I knew from survival training in the air force.  Fortunately, we didn't have to test it as there's still that ick factor when it comes to drinking it.  I'd be better with it on wounds if needed.

 

The washing hands bit I'm pretty sure I picked up from one of the many documentary type videos we watched with my guys growing up - possibly a Modern Marvels as they were terrific with historical beginnings to things.

 

ds's absolutely most favorite program from three to about seven. (i got him started with episodes on ships and trains.)

it really is a great show.  he still watches on occasion - but also does myth busters.

 

connections with james burke was good too.

I will always remember one post black plauge episode about the booming business economy - without a competitor in sight! (they were all dead from the plague)

and the selling of indulgences, which also paid michealangelo's bill . . . .

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Creekland,  Could you share the specifics of the project requirements?  This looks like something that I might want to have ds15 and dd13 do this year.  It looks like some of the students are really stepping up to the plate.  

 

Just to add an example of what I'm getting from my really talented kids, this was a component of one about Black Mamba bites (I copied a couple of slides here, so the formatting is weird.  Sorry I'm not talented enough to fix that!):

 

(And yes, they are losing a few technical points due to poor punctuation.)

 

---------------------------

  1. Black Mamba venom works by shutting down the nervous system and paralyzing a person

  2. The venom contains neurotoxins and cardiotoxins( Toxins that attack and shut down the personĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s nervous system)  

  3. Bites typically deliver 100-120 mg of venom(enough to kill 10-15 humans)

  4. Without antivenin, the fatality rate is 100%, and the person will die within six hours(Works extremely fast and effectively )  

  5. The neurotoxins are dendrotoxin, calciseptine, and mambalgins. ( these are the three main components in the venom)

  6. Just two drops of the snakeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s venom can kill a human.

  7.  

  8. Dendrotoxin

  9. Proteins consisting of a single peptide chain that have 57-60 amino acids

  10. Dendrotoxins have shown to block subtypes of voltage-gated potassium channels

  11. In the nervous system, voltage-gated potassium channels control the excitability of nerves and muscles by controlling the resting membrane potential

  12. Dendrotoxins bind the nodes of motor neurons and block the activity of the potassium channels

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Just to add an example of what I'm getting from my really talented kids, this was a component of one about Black Mamba bites (I copied a couple of slides here, so the formatting is weird.  Sorry I'm not talented enough to fix that!):

 

(And yes, they are losing a few technical points due to poor punctuation.)

 

---------------------------

  1. Black Mamba venom works by shutting down the nervous system and paralyzing a person

  2. The venom contains neurotoxins and cardiotoxins( Toxins that attack and shut down the personĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s nervous system)  

  3. Bites typically deliver 100-120 mg of venom(enough to kill 10-15 humans)

  4. Without antivenin, the fatality rate is 100%, and the person will die within six hours(Works extremely fast and effectively )  

  5. The neurotoxins are dendrotoxin, calciseptine, and mambalgins. ( these are the three main components in the venom)

  6. Just two drops of the snakeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s venom can kill a human.

  7.  

  8. Dendrotoxin

  9. Proteins consisting of a single peptide chain that have 57-60 amino acids

  10. Dendrotoxins have shown to block subtypes of voltage-gated potassium channels

  11. In the nervous system, voltage-gated potassium channels control the excitability of nerves and muscles by controlling the resting membrane potential

  12. Dendrotoxins bind the nodes of motor neurons and block the activity of the potassium channels

 

 

Great assignment!  Thanks!  So, about 12 slides?  Or were there a lot more slides that you didn't include?  Also, how long did they have to work on this?

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Unfortunately, I can't help thinking about what we are so sure about today that is going to seem just as idiotic to my great great grands as bloodletting and rubbing feces on wounds seems to us.

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Great assignment!  Thanks!  So, about 12 slides?  Or were there a lot more slides that you didn't include?  Also, how long did they have to work on this?

 

I copied two slides of that lad's project.  I don't recall exactly how many there were to be honest.  The internet got shut down at school (maintenance), so I came home since I posted that.  He told me some facts about Black Mambas and their venom, then went methodically through what I asked for in complete detail starting with these facts and then continuing to tell me that dendrotoxin is the component that paralyzes victims (and how).  Then he talked about the other two toxins in similar detail including the fact that the last one, mambalgins, have a pain reducing component to them that is currently in studies as a replacement to morphine since it is not addictive and has fewer (or perhaps different) side effects.

 

He told how the anti-venom is made (using horses), but more specifically than just that.  (I'll admit to not memorizing specifics.)  Then side effects, etc.

 

It probably was 11 or 12 slides in all, but with tons of detail - and done in black with white text - befitting his snake of choice.

 

Not all students went into as much detail.  Some aren't even getting full credit as they left important bits out.   :glare:  But the students who did a thorough investigation and summed things up nicely into bullet points impress me.

 

We are currently learning about cells and cell membranes with protein transport, etc, and have already learned about proteins, peptide bonds, enzymes and more, so I like it when kids can use research to tie a bit together and see how it works in real life situations.

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Unfortunately, I can't help thinking about what we are so sure about today that is going to seem just as idiotic to my great great grands as bloodletting and rubbing feces on wounds seems to us.

I have thought about this too. I think that 100 years from now they will look back and say, "Good grief! Chemo and radiation!!! What were these Neanderthals thinking? Barbaric!"

 

That's how it is with progress.

 

I for one want that scene from Star Trek 4 when Bones asks the elderly lady, "What are you here for?" and she responds, "Dialysis." He gets indignant and asks, "What is this? The Dark Ages?". Hands her a pill, and the next thing you see is her announcing, "The doctor gave me a pill, and I grew a new kidney!"

 

Bring it on, please! :D

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I have thought about this too. I think that 100 years from now they will look back and say, "Good grief! Chemo and radiation!!! What were these Neanderthals thinking? Barbaric!"

 

That's how it is with progress.

 

I for one want that scene from Star Trek 4 when Bones asks the elderly lady, "What are you here for?" and she responds, "Dialysis." He gets indignant and asks, "What is this? The Dark Ages?". Hands her a pill, and the next thing you see is her announcing, "The doctor gave me a pill, and I grew a new kidney!"

 

Bring it on, please! :D

 

I am all for Hollywood sharing their medical technology with us "little people" rather than keeping it all for themselves as in Elysium (movie).

 

I detest modern medicine/procedures and will only choose them as a last resort.  As I experience more it's even getting further down the list (never thought that to be possible, but it is).  However, seeing the options for the plague... ok, modern methods aren't quite at the bottom.

 

If Hollywood would share... I'd definitely be more inclined to seek assistance!

 

But since it appears that I'm working with potential candidates for medical fields in various capacities, I will do my best to try to teach them to think and put concepts together.  

 

Eh... I do that for all kids under my influence regardless of their desired future.  I merely chose the medical field for this research project due to many of their desired futures.  I like letting kids explore things that interest them.  Along the way I see what I learn.   :coolgleamA:

 

With this project I've learned I want to stay healthy!

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Has anyone gone into the biomedical research on snake venom? We had a chance to visit a biomedical research program where they extract and study venom from specific species as well as make antivenin, and it was really, really cool.

 

My black mamba lad did.  One of his slides focused on mambalgin potentially replacing morphine sometime in the future.

 

The lad who did the King Cobra disappointed me - very little research to be honest.

 

Another lad did a Brazilian spider bite, but didn't talk about any research on venom.

 

Most kids chose disorders, illnesses, or diseases.  Many focused on things that have affected them or people in their family.

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As an rh- female, I am pretty darned happy to live right now. A hundred years ago, a second pregnancy might have killed me.

 

Or the next baby...

 

I'm rh neg. also.  When dd5 was born, I asked for the rhogam right away.  (Apparently it is now done in an iv instead of an injection.  -- Even that technology is changing!!!)  They told me that I had to wait until they typed the baby's blood.  :eyeroll:  I already "knew" that I would need the shot.  My first 5 children all have the exact same blood type.  The chances of Baby #6 having a different blood type?  Astronomically low.

 

When the nurse came in the next day to give me the rhogam, she was astonished when I told her the baby's blood type. ;)

 

Yes, I'm glad for technology as well.  :)

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My first 5 children all have the exact same blood type.  The chances of Baby #6 having a different blood type?  Astronomically low.

 

 

Well... this depends upon parent blood type to get stats, not what the first five got.   ;)  If parents are homozygous, then yes, astronomically low.  

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Well... this depends upon parent blood type to get stats, not what the first five got.   ;)  If parents are homozygous, then yes, astronomically low.  

 

I would have demanded them to re-test if we had gotten a different result.  My husband was taking a stats class at the time I was pregnant with her, so we had confidence that we couldn't possibly have a child with a different blood type.  From the first five, we determined that we are almost definitely homozygous.

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We really need to demand the pill grew a kidney thing because the woman did not appear to have side effects. I am watching the KC - Blue Jay game and there has been a bunch of pharma ads in which the cure seems worse than the disease! No thanks! Just let expire in peace, maybe on a nice beach in Fiji!

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We really need to demand the pill grew a kidney thing because the woman did not appear to have side effects. I am watching the KC - Blue Jay game and there have beena to of pharma ads in which the cure seems worse than the disease! No thanks! Just let expire in peace, maybe on a nice beach in Fiji!

 

Fiji, Bora Bora, Cook Islands...  I think we need to explore them all to see which one is the best for those waning days.

 

Meanwhile we tape pretty much everything in order to miss those ads.  Even pausing sporting events or the news long enough to skip through ads is totally worth it.

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I woke up to this on the radio this morning, so I am thinking maybe we will actually be closer to the plague years:

Antibiotic resistance could threaten surgery, chemo patients - To help prevent superbugs, say no to antibiotics for coughs or colds, ask for meat that's antibiotic-free

 

Feeding low dose antibiotics to livestock might be right up there on the really stupid meter.

CA just banned the use of antibiotics in healthy livestock... I don't think it kicks in for a couple years though. I agree, this is a huge problem. Hopefully other states follow suit.

 

ETA link: http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_28951303/antibiotics-ban-california-becomes-first-state-outlaw-routine

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was everything she learned about the middle ages from movies made in the 40s & 50s?

 

it was pretty brutal, and life expectencies were short.

Yeah, a grewt many of the 30-50 something moms here on WTM would be DEAD already.

 

Birth to five took out as many as much as 1/4-1/3 of people born period, more died from ages 5 to adulthood and between labor itself and childbed infections, 1/5 or more of adult women died of complications related to pregnancy. More from post delivery infection than from labor itself.

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/melaniehaiken/2012/03/12/dangerous-beauty-top-5-contaminated-beauty-products/

 

And if you have ever thought that applying lead to the face in the past was stupid.........well, we're not that far advanced.

 

 

I've wondered this too. I'm thinking our level of sugar consumption, or HFCS specifically. Perhaps it will be all the accidents from people driving their own cars.

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One of the worldĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s largest fertility drug-producing companies makes use of the ovulation-enhancing hormone in human urine to make Pergonal, reported to have had US$855 million in sales in 1992.

 

More examples of commercial medical applications of urine and urea in use today include:-

 

Murine Ear Drops and Murine Ear Wax Removal System

 

Ureaphil, a diuretic made from urea

 

Urofollotropin, a urine-extract fertility drug

 

Ureacin, a urea cream for skin problems

 

Amino-Cerv, a urea cream used for cervical treatments

 

Premarin, a urine-extract oestrogen for skin ulcers, burns, infected wounds, and other purposes

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Yeah, a grewt many of the 30-50 something moms here on WTM would be DEAD already.

 

Birth to five took out as many as much as 1/4-1/3 of people born period, more died from ages 5 to adulthood and between labor itself and childbed infections, 1/5 or more of adult women died of complications related to pregnancy. More from post delivery infection than from labor itself.

 

I would probably have died a long time ago.my first baby could have been fatal without modern medicine (very easily dealt with now) - or  it could have been several other illnesses, easily and quickly treated by modern medicine, but potentially life threatening without it. I've had periods of being immunocompromised.

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One of the worldĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s largest fertility drug-producing companies makes use of the ovulation-enhancing hormone in human urine to make Pergonal, reported to have had US$855 million in sales in 1992.

 

More examples of commercial medical applications of urine and urea in use today include:

 

Murine Ear Drops and Murine Ear Wax Removal System

 

Ureaphil, a diuretic made from urea

 

Urofollotropin, a urine-extract fertility drug

 

Ureacin, a urea cream for skin problems

 

Amino-Cerv, a urea cream used for cervical treatments

 

Premarin, a urine-extract oestrogen for skin ulcers, burns, infected wounds, and other purposes

 

Still not convinced that drinking it twice per day really helped against the plague. ;)   I'd have given it more of a possibility if they were using it instead of feces as part of the rub.

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