Managers of Their Homes- support thread?

[Desert Strawberry]

The book was given to me. I'm slowly reading through it, making notes and implementing ideas as I come to them.

 

I'm not big on schedules. I like the flexibility of a routine. My house runs fairly smoothly, but we are still getting settled after our move. I'm feeling a bit burned out and thinking a little extra guidance might help after all the chaos of the past year.

 

Is anyone using MOTH? Anyone have experiences with it, positive or negative? I'd love to hear it.

[Another Lynn]

Like you I tend toward routines over schedules. I haven't read moth in a long time, but the process helped me realize I couldn't fit more than 24 hours in a day. (Seems obvious now , lol).

[prairiewindmomma]

The book was really helpful to me about 8 years ago.  I still use some of the techniques---like a time block schedule where if I'm occupied intensively teaching phonics with one kid, I know that my others need to be doing things that they can do by themselves. I also learned to have a chore routine.  Some aspects of the book don't work for me.

 

Honestly, I felt a lot better when I realized:

1. her husband does their grocery shopping

2. her family does the deep cleaning while she lesson plans on Saturday morning

3. she has support to go walking daily 

4. most of her meals are very simple--pizza, burritos, etc. (look at her grocery shopping list)

5. she had very little "kid running" to do

 

Yeah, I could be organized well if I had that life too. I don't.

[sunflowerlady]

I bought it a few years ago and used it for a while. I am a mom of an only so my life is simpler than hers as a mom of many. My problem was that I tend to get distracted and think I should be doing something else or I lose track of time.

 

Anyway, I really liked it. I helped me to mentally know that I would get to things that need to be done. I also scheduled in computer time for myself, so I knew that I could use the computer for 30 minutes as 2 pm, for example.  By that time, I had been productive by following the schedule and did not have to worry about forgetting anything.

 

Good luck, I think it is a great tool.

[MedicMom]

The book was really helpful to me about 8 years ago. I still use some of the techniques---like a time block schedule where if I'm occupied intensively teaching phonics with one kid, I know that my others need to be doing things that they can do by themselves. I also learned to have a chore routine. Some aspects of the book don't work for me.

 

Honestly, I felt a lot better when I realized:

1. her husband does their grocery shopping

2. her family does the deep cleaning while she lesson plans on Saturday morning

3. she has support to go walking daily

4. most of her meals are very simple--pizza, burritos, etc. (look at her grocery shopping list)

5. she had very little "kid running" to do

 

Yeah, I could be organized well if I had that life too. I don't.

The Maxwells have a very different lifestyle than I do. They do eat very simply(not just healthy simple, but pre-packaged simple) and don't believe that parents or children should have friends or activities outside of the home/family. Teri suffered from severe depression and the detailed scheduling started to keep her on track as far as keeping up with home and children. Also they are hard-core textbook only/school at home users, and I couldn't fit our more free form, heavy literarure based type of school into her rigid schedules.

 

I gave up with it after a while.

[Guest]

I've used MOTH for years now. Six or seven? I modified it to fit our lives better and some of the things I've loosened up on I could tighten again, but it is wonderful for reclaiming time, organization, and self discipline. Even if you decide not to use a timer (I don't) and keep more of a routine than a schedule, the foundational principles are extremely helpful.

[Rebel Yell]

The book made me feel like an utter failure as a mom, homeschooler, wife, Christian, and human being. And all of the people around me who used the system seemed to have the same opinion of me.

[Guest]

The book made me feel like an utter failure as a mom, homeschooler, wife, Christian, and human being. And all of the people around me who used the system seemed to have the same opinion of me.

Well now I'm curious - what about the book made you feel like a failure? Adherence to it or something?

[Desert Strawberry]

The book made me feel like an utter failure as a mom, homeschooler, wife, Christian, and human being. And all of the people around me who used the system seemed to have the same opinion of me.

I'm so sorry you had that experience :(

 

What specifically didn't work for you?

[Desert Strawberry]

Can we talk about the timing? I'm on the fence about that. We tend to work till we're done, but I can see the appeal of timed periods, especially for Aries. I'm just not sure how that would work.

[Guest]

Do the timing thing for two weeks. I think it is a helpful exercise. But depending on how tightly or loosely your blocks are scheduled you probably won't need to keep it up. If you're having trouble staying on task or organized with time it's definitely useful but I don't know any family who uses the timer for every block. Initially, though, it's key to not feeling like you cannot accomplish what you need to.

[Desert Strawberry]

I will definitely not be scheduling Luna. She's not that kind of baby, and I'm not that kind of mom. I do see the attraction, and Teri does make it sound reasonable. I appreciate that she doesn't push this.

Luna is such a peaceful baby. She's not at all consistent, but she's so easy. I'm not fixing what isn't broken. I'm so relieved to have her off of her feeding schedule (for low weight gain). It made me a little crazy. I don't want to go back.

[Desert Strawberry]

Do the timing thing for two weeks. I think it is a helpful exercise. But depending on how tightly or loosely your blocks are scheduled you probably won't need to keep it up. If you're having trouble staying on task or organized with time it's definitely useful but I don't know any family who uses the timer for every block. Initially, though, it's key to not feeling like you cannot accomplish what you need to.

Ok. Thank you. I didn't think it would be essential, but I can how you really do have to have that structure to keep it all from coming unraveled. That was one of my sticking points.

[Orthodox6]

I read this book some years ago and threw it into the trash can. Organization of life is one thing. Humiliating programming of people is another.

[Rebel Yell]

Well now I'm curious - what about the book made you feel like a failure? Adherence to it or something?

 

It's been a very long time...  but most of it was the precise scheduling. I breastfed "on demand" which seemed to be a cuss word for the people I knew using MOTH. So the entire thing fell apart if my baby didn't fit neatly into a feeding/napping schedule. Plus we had outside activities at varying times. DH worked over an hour away- dinner was not until 7pm or later. I am not a morning person, so 10am was 'early' to us. I did not use strictly textbooks and workbooks. In my early homeschooling days, I used TWTM for which subjects to teach when, but used more of an unschooling approach for 'how' to teach them.

 

Most of the people I knew who used it were very rigid, and equated instant obedience, perfect order, etc. as being more godly and spiritual. It seemed like the harder I tried, the more spectacularly I failed. I was also a very new Christian at the time, so I was trying so hard to do everything "right" and it just collapsed around me.

 

Sadly, I then ran from ANY structure or planning, and it took me YEARS to find my own system. If I was not tryng to be so perfect, I might have benefited more from MOTH- but it seemed like a religion to some people, with no flexibility. ANd some people do need that flexibility.  I just didn;t have enough knowledge or experience or support to be able to tweak MOTH methods to suit my situation, so it was all-or-nothing, and I ended up with nothing.

[Desert Strawberry]

I read this book some years ago and threw it into the trash can. Organization of life is one thing. Humiliating programming of people is another.

Whoa! That's a strong reaction. How is it humiliating? Maybe I haven't gotten to that part yet? So far, it just seems like a cranked up version of how I normally run my house.

[Guest]

I will definitely not be scheduling Luna. She's not that kind of baby, and I'm not that kind of mom. I do see the attraction, and Teri does make it sound reasonable. I appreciate that she doesn't push this.

Luna is such a peaceful baby. She's not at all consistent, but she's so easy. I'm not fixing what isn't broken. I'm so relieved to have her off of her feeding schedule (for low weight gain). It made me a little crazy. I don't want to go back.

Yes, I don't schedule my babies either. What I did do is put them *on* the schedule - I observed what the typical routine was and recorded that. I didn't try to make any of the kids fit my personal schedule, but having the routine jotted down helped me plan in breaks at roughly the right times and also made it easier for someone like my husband to figure out what needed to be done next for each member of the family when I was working.

 

Use common sense - the tone Teri strikes in the book versus what she actually means are very different - it's like the way some people view Susan's schedules and recommendations until they hear her lectures and can place the personality to the book (and see a lot more flexibility and encouragement in what sometimes comes off as rigid or formulaic). If it doesn't work for your family, modify without guilt. The scheduling is a tool to help you, not a sentence to burden you. Start from her starting point on everything you can and expect that there will be adjustments. I redo my schedule every quarter or so because things change. The goal isn't to make your family look like hers, it is to make your family function. I cook more elaborately than her, I do most of the chores because of the ages of my kids, we homeschool in a more flexible style. And yet the scheduling is still a huge blessing because it makes order and automation for me out of chaos and helps me reclaim my time.

 

In fact, I've been lazy on it this summer and our whole lives have paid for it with. I need to tighten back up. Not every mom functions well with this kind of rigidity, but almost everyone benefits from laying out their day at least once, moving the pieces around, and seeing how and if everything can fit as needed.

[Guest]

Whoa! That's a strong reaction. How is it humiliating? Maybe I haven't gotten to that part yet? Do far, it just seems like a cracked up version of how I normally run my house.

Me too. I'm sorry some had bad experiences with it!

[EmseB]

I think it's the same as any parenting or household management tool. Take what's helpful and leave the rest. If you feel compelled to use it with such rigidity that it is causing you stress or worse, then it's probably best to scrap it.

I doubt the Maxwell's intend for the book to be a list of written demands on how people must live.

I found some helpful tips, but I didn't stress out if I went off our schedule or routine. Maybe is not for people who feel compelled to follow books like this to the letter?

[Guest]

It's been a very long time... but most of it was the precise scheduling. I breastfed "on demand" which seemed to be a cuss word for the people I knew using MOTH. So the entire thing fell apart if my baby didn't fit neatly into a feeding/napping schedule. Plus we had outside activities at varying times. DH worked over an hour away- dinner was not until 7pm or later. I am not a morning person, so 10am was 'early' to us. I did not use strictly textbooks and workbooks. In my early homeschooling days, I used TWTM for which subjects to teach when, but used more of an unschooling approach for 'how' to teach them.

 

Most of the people I knew who used it were very rigid, and equated instant obedience, perfect order, etc. as being more godly and spiritual. It seemed like the harder I tried, the more spectacularly I failed. I was also a very new Christian at the time, so I was trying so hard to do everything "right" and it just collapsed around me.

 

Sadly, I then ran from ANY structure or planning, and it took me YEARS to find my own system. If I was not tryng to be so perfect, I might have benefited more from MOTH- but it seemed like a religion to some people, with no flexibility. ANd some people do need that flexibility. I just didn;t have enough knowledge or experience or support to be able to tweak MOTH methods to suit my situation, so it was all-or-nothing, and I ended up with nothing.

That's sounds like the perfect storm of stuff that didn't work for you, what a bummer! I always encourage people that making their family look like mine (or vice versa) isn't the goal, so much as making their family and day into the best it can be. With school, I just do a 'school' block on the schedule, and have Scholaric for more specific assignments and time slots. I do have to juggle students who are sometimes combined and sometimes not, and have to leave the older kids working for nursing on occasion. That's okay! But I'm glad I began the schedule during a summer with smaller kids, because I can see the pitfall of trying to change a million things, let alone feeling like this is a requirement for good Christianity, and being burdened by that.

 

I'm glad you found what works for your family in the long run - that's the important thing :)

[EmseB]

Yes to the use common sense! If a tool that is designed to make your life less stressful is making it more stressful, then either it's not a good tool for you, you need to modify the application, or re-read what the author is trying to say.

 

Despite reading MOTH, I still breastfed my babies on demand because I thought it was best and created a happier home. That doesn't mean I found the rest of the book useless. I wouldn't do something that created stress in the home just because a book said to schedule feed.

[inmyopinion]

I found it helpful as a guide, but did not implement it as a system as I like flexibility and am geared more toward a routine than a schedule.    

[Desert Strawberry]

I like the idea of putting Luna on the schedule, even if she doesn't nap or whatever when I have my time with her. She's happy to be pretty much ignored for hours at a time, and I have concerns that she won't eat enough or demand my attention. I want to have dedicated snuggle and playtime with her. That doesn't happen very much. 
I love the assigned playtimes. I have already implemented that. I'm so excited to see the improvement in relationships. everyone will get some time with Luna and everyone will get a chance to be the big kid.

 

I don't find Teri's tone unpleasant at all. A little preachy, yes, but I think she's truthful, honest, and just sharing what works for her. 

[TeacherZee]

I think it's the same as any parenting or household management tool. Take what's helpful and leave the rest. If you feel compelled to use it with such rigidity that it is causing you stress or worse, then it's probably best to scrap it.

 

I doubt think the Maxwell's intend for the book to be a list of written demands on how people must live.

 

I found some helpful tips, but I didn't stress out if I went off our schedule or routine. Maybe is not for people who feel compelled to follow books like this to the letter?

If you read some of their other writings you will actually see that they do intend for it to be a list of written demands. They used to have a forum for their users where they, as a matter of routine, would change people's posts when someone suggested tweaks to their scheduling.

 

I don't doubt that there are some very useful tips in the Maxwells books but I think in general they espouse some very dangerous ideas. F

[Ms.Ivy]

I found it helpful to follow their instructions in writing down everything that needed to happen and how much time it takes to do it. I found that I had totally unrealistic expectations for myself. And I had to be more proactive and conscious about deciding what I would not do. So I do make a shedule every year to make sure that what I want our family to do actually fits in a 24 hour day. Then I don't really look at the schedule for the rest of the year... it's more of a routine and a way to confirm what I say no to. It is very similar to making financial budget.

 

But other than that, I didn't find too much helpful about it. Family dynamics can change drastically, depending on how many little kids and big kids you have, and how helpful your husband is. It all has a huge impact on what your family can or can't do. MOTH didn't address any of that. I guarantee you that if the Maxwells wrote that book with six kids ages six and under, it wouldn't have looked the same. I have noticed that most moms who give advice about how they found the path to an organized home think they found a system that will work for every one, when in reality, their oldest kids just finally got old enough to do more work than they create.

[FriedClams]

I've read it, and like anything else, I "kept the fish and threw out the bones". I'm a routine girl, but it helped me to get focused. My life is very different than the Maxwell's but I appreciate learning from any mom who's walked this road longer than me, especially if they approach it differently. If I'm reading about myself, I'm not learning a whole lot. I enjoyed it a lot, and I hope it's a helpful tool for you.

[EmseB]

If you read some of their other writings you will actually see that they do intend for it to be a list of written demands. They used to have a forum for their users where they, as a matter of routine, would change people's posts when someone suggested tweaks to their scheduling.

 

I don't doubt that there are some very useful tips in the Maxwells books but I think in general they espouse some very dangerous ideas. F

 

Well a lot of books (parenting and otherwise) espouse "very dangerous ideas" but that doesn't mean I have to implement them.  I have no comment on their forum, as I only read the book and took what was useful for me and left the rest.  It's like if I read an attachment parenting book and found that it didn't work with  my kids and made our household unpleasant and stressed me out.  I wouldn't continue to do those things no matter how much my friends did them, no matter what the book said or what the people who wrote the book said.  Obviously the authors think their way is the best way and want to promote that or else they wouldn't have written the book.

 

I guess I'm baffled by people who read a parenting book and feel so dogmatically tied to it that they stress themselves and their children out by trying to adhere to it to the letter and then claim it was the book itself that was the problem.

ETA: as for a "list of demands" that's just silly.  They aren't demanding people do anything.  They sell a book that people are free to use as they want.

[Evergreen State Sue]

I bought the book about the time I started homeschooling 4-5 year olds.  I felt like I needed a better plan to get stuff done and sought help from this mom who had 8 children.  If Teri Maxwell, mom of 8, could do it, certainly I could do it with only 2 kids.  I found having a routine in the morning helped the rest of my day.  I didn't stick to an exact schedule, but used it as a guide.  That alone was very helpful.  Don't try to be strict and perfect.  Find what works and go from there. 

[mommaduck]

I was using the "MOTH" system long before I ever read the book. In fact, before the book came out. It really wasn't anything new under the sun. However, I did read over her then-open forums and realised that I already had been doing this. I would make up my chart on the computer and schedule it out, then print and hang. Every person in the family was assigned a colour, something I had been doing for years with everything else in the house (hangers, buckets). I love organisation. And I didn't make pre-packaged meals and I did NOT schedule my babies' feeding and nap times. 

 

THAT SAID:

 

This was when I had my first five children. This was when we didn't have a lot of outside activities besides church. As the children got older, I had to revamp the schedule every 3-6mos, because life changes and throws everything into upheaval. It is great IF you learn to use it as a guide and not expect everyone to run like robots on it. Sometimes, you have to default to "do the next thing or skip something today". THAT was difficult for me. I don't like things throwing me off. I like things in order and things to peaceably move along. Needless to say, THAT IS NOT LIFE for many of us. Financial, health, independent minds, energy drains....all like to flip on the blender of life and say, "here's your mess, go find your monkeys!" There have been years I have thrown out the schedule altogether for everyone's sanity. There are times I've gone back to it to regain my own sanity or give us a start. It has it's pros and cons. Those that tend to over scheduling can drive themselves or their family insane, but it can also be a blessing for those that need something to center them again. Given the information about Mrs. Maxwell above, I can see how this would have been helpful to her. I get it. But don't rely on it as something that will fix everything. It won't account for things that life throws at you. I will also say that my older children were easy about schedules and chores. My youngers are NOT. I have one that is ADHD. I can imagine that it might work for some SN children and NOT AT ALL for other SN children. NO, it's NOT for everyone and NO ONE should feel like a failure. 

[Guest]

Thank you for this. My life is nothing at all like Mrs. Maxwell's and I have a bit of a "self help book addiction" so your insights and reviews were a very powerful reminder to me to bloom where I am planted and stop comparing myself to others.

 

Just what I need at this time of year and this season of my life.

 

Strawberry, I hope you are able to find what is useful to you and not stress over the rest. I have many wonderful memories of living in AZ and hope you love it there as much as I did.

[TechWife]

I read it and implemented it when it first came out. I lasted somewhere in the 6 - 9 month range. Honestly, it was one of the worst mistakes I made and it took years to recover, years. In some ways, I am still not as efficient as I was before I tried to use her system. 

 

The biggest sticking point for me was that she advocates that when a task, be it school related, housekeeping related, cooking related, is not finished and the allotted time for has passed, that you stop the task and go on to the next thing on the schedule. The smaller increments of time that she recommended (I think they were 15 min increments?) for my son's age at the time were not enough to allow me to get anything done. I still think of my life in terms of before MOTH and after MOTH. Before MOTH, I was organized, efficient and had plenty of time left over for family leisure time. After MOTH, I have struggled with disorganization and staying with tasks until they are finished - it's sort of like the MOTH system encouraged me to develop ADHD or something. 

 

So, if you have a routine that works for your family and takes into account a big picture of how your want your family life to be, then stay the course. If you have areas you want to improve, then read several different resources and pick & choose what you think will work for your family. There are so many really good resources available on organizing physical space, time management, organizing records, homeschool schedules, meal planning, cleaning schedules and techniques and many more topics that I think you could find a lot of different ideas. Check your library for books - the basic principles of family management have remained the same for generations, so feel free to read old books. Actually, you might want to read a mix of older and newer books to get a variety of ideas. 

 

The bottom line is - do what works for you and know that there isn't any one system that works perfectly for every situation because we are all unique people placed into unique families. 

[meena]

If you read some of their other writings you will actually see that they do intend for it to be a list of written demands. They used to have a forum for their users where they, as a matter of routine, would change people's posts when someone suggested tweaks to their scheduling.

 

I don't doubt that there are some very useful tips in the Maxwells books but I think in general they espouse some very dangerous ideas. F

I agree. When I was an inexperienced wife/mom with two babies born less than a year apart, I was looking for ways to get organized. I came across their online forum and naively thought that because they were Christians and had a bunch of kids that they would be a good source of info.

 

They advised lockstep adherence to MOTH, and if your life didn't fit into how they do things you were WRONG and probably not a good Christian family (yes, it really was that judgy there). Forget about odd work schedules for your husband, the wife needing to work, sports or outside activities, and so on. Forget about random cuddle times or running outside spontaneously to stomp in puddles after a quick rainshower just because you feel like it. Forget about any plans for your daughter going to college. That last point is what threw me off their website and products forever. One great thing about the MOTH forums is that I realized I lean much more to the attachment side of parenting. It also helped me think more critically about parenting resources, which helped me be strong in rejecting/speaking out against the Pearls and Ezzos when friends were trying to sell me on them.

 

Editing to add: Since the OP asked specifically about the book, I did have it and found it not useful for our way of life. We are better at flexibility. If I tried harder I probably could have gleaned some tips or methods, but once I found out what I stated above I got rid of the book and never looked back. I just can't support that mindset.

[meena]

Well a lot of books (parenting and otherwise) espouse "very dangerous ideas" but that doesn't mean I have to implement them. I have no comment on their forum, as I only read the book and took what was useful for me and left the rest. It's like if I read an attachment parenting book and found that it didn't work with my kids and made our household unpleasant and stressed me out. I wouldn't continue to do those things no matter how much my friends did them, no matter what the book said or what the people who wrote the book said. Obviously the authors think their way is the best way and want to promote that or else they wouldn't have written the book.

 

I guess I'm baffled by people who read a parenting book and feel so dogmatically tied to it that they stress themselves and their children out by trying to adhere to it to the letter and then claim it was the book itself that was the problem.

ETA: as for a "list of demands" that's just silly. They aren't demanding people do anything. They sell a book that people are free to use as they want.

I think part of the problem is that the Maxwells espouse (or at least used to) that their way is right, and if it doesn't work it's because you are wrong. That is a hard pill to swallow for inexperienced moms, especially those who are new Christians and/or did not grow up in a Christian or organized home. I'm older and more confident now, but back in the days when I had babies I had no one to talk to and my upbringing was not stellar. I had no idea what I was doing, so if the Maxwells said I was doing it all wrong, how was I supposed to know better? Thankfully I figured things out, but I know they have led a lot of impressionable young moms down their rigid path.

[LucyStoner]

Oh my. My husband's grandmother just gave me this book and a bag of...pantyhose for my birthday. In addition to (as usual) ladies bath products to which I am allergic.

 

I wasn't bothered but my husband sure the heck was about those pantyhose. I wrote that part off as her being an old lady and passing sense on what's appropriate to give to people but my husband was like "girl! Do.not.let.her.fool.you." :p

[mommaduck]

Basically, the coloured co-ordinated schedule "can be" useful (but one should allow for life and flexibility and can be accomplished without their book as it's not unique and nothing they "came up with" that no one else had done before). Much of the other stuff is their personal views on life in general and you can take it or leave it (I never paid attention to it).

[DawnM]

I bought some of their stuff and tried to use it in the beginning but then I realized they are very rigid.  I don't do rigid.  And I had an Aspie with some severe issues for whom this method would NEVER work.

 

Never mind that *I* am the social one who goes off to the beach or on a cruise with my GIRLFRIENDS to get away from my family.  Terri would most definitely not approve.

 

Nope, they remind me of the Pearls in some ways......anything that reeks of rigidity and legalism makes me RUN.

 

PS: there wasn't much to sift through to find the good before throwing the bad out.....it was all pretty rigid.  

[EmseB]

I think part of the problem is that the Maxwells espouse (or at least used to) that their way is right, and if it doesn't work it's because you are wrong. That is a hard pill to swallow for inexperienced moms, especially those who are new Christians and/or did not grow up in a Christian or organized home. I'm older and more confident now, but back in the days when I had babies I had no one to talk to and my upbringing was not stellar. I had no idea what I was doing, so if the Maxwells said I was doing it all wrong, how was I supposed to know better? Thankfully I figured things out, but I know they have led a lot of impressionable young moms down their rigid path.

I kind of think that is more personality driven than anything else. There are people who get obsessively dogmatic about a lot of things and have to do everything in a book to the letter no matter what, but I still can't put the blame on a book. MOTH is helpful for many people who use parts of it and can leave the rest. Just like any other self help tool or book. I mean, I sort of get it because my husband's family was involved with ATI for a time, but when things got weird and creepy his parents nope'd right out of there. Primarily because they recognized they were responsible for raising their kids, not ATI or Bill Gothard.

 

I think at some point you can't blame a book for what goes on in your own house. I have been an inexperienced new mother and it was a DOCTOR who was giving me horrible advice when my son was born. I can't imagine a scheduling book having any kind of hold on my family. A book cannot make people do stuff. A group of friends is a bit different, but even then, at what point are the actions being taken the responsibility of the person doing them?

 

To your first sentence, inexperienced or no, if anyone is telling me that, I'm going to laugh in their face. I don't know why anyone would take that attitude seriously from people they don't know and have never set foot in their home. I'm sure there are A LOT of people who write self help books who think I'm doing it wrong. Who cares? Seriously, I cannot imagine caring one iota what the Maxwells think of what goes on in my home.

[meena]

I kind of think that is more personality driven than anything else. There are people who get obsessively dogmatic about a lot of things and have to do everything in a book to the letter no matter what, but I still can't put the blame on a book. MOTH is helpful for many people who use parts of it and can leave the rest. Just like any other self help tool or book. I mean, I sort of get it because my husband's family was involved with ATI for a time, but when things got weird and creepy his parents nope'd right out of there. Primarily because they recognized they were responsible for raising their kids, not ATI or Bill Gothard.

 

I think at some point you can't blame a book for what goes on in your own house. I have been an inexperienced new mother and it was a DOCTOR who was giving me horrible advice when my son was born. I can't imagine a scheduling book having any kind of hold on my family. A book cannot make people do stuff. A group of friends is a bit different, but even then, at what point are the actions being taken the responsibility of the person doing them?

I agree to an extent. Any mistakes I made based on my reading of MOTH and the forums were my own. I was also given bad advice by friends, family members, and a doctor as well, and some of it I listened to and regret; some I discarded after consideration. Part of the learning curve of parenting is developing a filter about advice because there's a lot out there, and only some of that will be a good fit for an individual family. That filter can certainly be used with MOTH.

 

I don't blame MOTH for my mistakes. But I do blame them for portraying their methods as the be-all, end-all Christian lifestyle and for shaming people for whom it does not perfectly work as is. Of course the Maxwells never made me do anything. But when I was a young inexperienced mom, I really would have appreciated hearing that the reason MOTH wasn't working was because there's all kinds of successful ways to parent rather than hearing an implication that it wasn't working because I wasn't following the methods enough, submissive enough, a good enough Christian, wasn't living the Proverbs 31 lifestyle, wasn't "blanket training" my babies, and so on.

 

Editing since you added more to your post--

Like I said in an earlier post, I ultimately rejected the Maxwells and all their products once I realized the big picture of what they believed. But at first it was hard to see the crazy behind what seemed at face value to be normal, especially since I grew up in a dysfunctional, non-Christian home. I didn't know what good parenting was supposed to look like so I had no point of reference from which to judge the Maxwells other than how they portray themselves. They seemed to have well-mannered children and an organized home life which was miles beyond the chaos I came from, so I thought they must be doing something right.

[EmseB]

Sorry to reply again but I just had another thought.  I was at a homeschooling conference a year or two ago and we were at a workshop for a certain curriculum that had things scheduled out by week and day.  We were discussing the curriculum and another mom raised her hand to ask if she wanted to, could she possibly tweak the plans a bit because they preferred a 4-day school week, so could they shuffle things around to suit their home school.  I was so confused by the question!  It's your home school, do what you need to do, why ask the writers for permission?  It wasn't like a "how can I make this work the best" or "is it feasible" it was a "Can I do this please?" type of question.

 

So yeah, I'm not one to read books and think that if I don't do everything perfectly according to the book that my life is a failure.  I'm not one to buy curriculum and adhere to it's instructions to the point of stress.  And it baffles me that there are people who read books and use them in this way.  I mean, of course you're stressed out if you're trying to do everything with that amount of rigidity.  But I never assume that I'm going to ruin something by tweaking a book or tool to suit my own needs.  That would be so completely exhausting.

[Mimm]

I kind of think that is more personality driven than anything else. There are people who get obsessively dogmatic about a lot of things and have to do everything in a book to the letter no matter what, but I still can't put the blame on a book. MOTH is helpful for many people who use parts of it and can leave the rest. Just like any other self help tool or book. I mean, I sort of get it because my husband's family was involved with ATI for a time, but when things got weird and creepy his parents nope'd right out of there. Primarily because they recognized they were responsible for raising their kids, not ATI or Bill Gothard.

 

I think at some point you can't blame a book for what goes on in your own house. I have been an inexperienced new mother and it was a DOCTOR who was giving me horrible advice when my son was born. I can't imagine a scheduling book having any kind of hold on my family. A book cannot make people do stuff. A group of friends is a bit different, but even then, at what point are the actions being taken the responsibility of the person doing them?

 

To your first sentence, inexperienced or no, if anyone is telling me that, I'm going to laugh in their face. I don't know why anyone would take that attitude seriously from people they don't know and have never set foot in their home. I'm sure there are A LOT of people who write self help books who think I'm doing it wrong. Who cares? Seriously, I cannot imagine caring one iota what the Maxwells think of what goes on in my home.

 

You act like books have no power. :) Of course they do. They communicate ideas and ideas have loads of power. Of course everyone is responsible for their own choices, but books, and the people recommending them, can have a powerful influence on people.

[EmseB]

I agree to an extent. Any mistakes I made based on my reading of MOTH and the forums were my own. I was also given bad advice by friends, family members, and a doctor as well, and some of it I listened to and regret; some I discarded after consideration. Part of the learning curve of parenting is developing a filter about advice because there's a lot out there, and only some of that will be a good fit for an individual family. That filter can certainly be used with MOTH.

 

I don't blame MOTH for my mistakes. But I do blame them for portraying their methods as the be-all, end-all Christian lifestyle and for shaming people for whom it does not perfectly work as is. Of course the Maxwells never made me do anything. But when I was a young inexperienced mom, I really would have appreciated hearing that the reason MOTH wasn't working was because there's all kinds of successful ways to parent rather than hearing an implication that it wasn't working because I wasn't following the methods enough, submissive enough, a good enough Christian, wasn't living the Proverbs 31 lifestyle, wasn't "blanket training" my babies, and so on.

 

I should also say this was not my experience, because I just ordered the book and read it.  I didn't have anyone telling me that it was the be all end all (if I had, like I said I can't imagine taking them seriously, but maybe I would have felt uncomfortable around them).  I don't even know how Teri or any of them could shame me because I don't know how an author I don't know could have that much sway in my life.  I'm not saying that to make you feel bad, I just completely don't understand it.  My husband would be completely weirded out if I started adhering to someone's dogma like that and would talk me down.  I cut up some paper squares, put them on the master schedule and tried to discipline myself because I wasn't doing a lot of things I knew I should have been doing (like read aloud to my kids, chores etc).  I was undisciplined as a new mom and needed help getting on track.  But perhaps that's also part of the reason that I didn't really feel so compelled to adhere to their stuff that it stressed me out -- I'm just that lazy, and when something doesn't work for me, I just disregard it instead of trying to force the issue to my own misery.  Seriously, maybe my own laziness benefits me in this way because I feel like I've always had the filter you're talking about...I don't feel beholden to others as to how our house runs.

 

I have jumped on trends like cloth diapering with cute diapers or other things, but never to the point that you're talking about.  The worst it got was when a doctor was trying to bully me into using formula when my son and I had a slow start nursing and it made me feel horrible, but this was a doctor, not just some random author I didn't know.  Again, not to make you feel bad, I just don't understand it.

[EmseB]

You act like books have no power. :) Of course they do. They communicate ideas and ideas have loads of power. Of course everyone is responsible for their own choices, but books, and the people recommending them, can have a powerful influence on people.

 

Well, that was my point in my original reply.  There are tons of books out there with tons of dangerous ideas.  There are tons of people out there with dangerous ideas.  But, for example, when DH and I discuss books, or articles, or sermons or ideas in general, one of the biggest topics of discussion is something like, "I like what this said about this, but I don't agree with this other thing".  That's part of discernment and such.  Obviously people get caught up in things but I, personally, don't understand how a scheduling book could be that dangerous or that powerful, but obviously there's some kind of cult following that is pretty bad that I was not aware of when I read it and made up my little schedule.  I never set timers because I thought it would be annoying.  My husband didn't start doing all my grocery shopping and I didn't feel like he had to in order to make our family okay with the Maxwells.  My babies were breastfed on demand and not on a schedule, but it didn't make me feel like a failure, because my status as a mom had nothing to do with what the Maxwell's (or other well-meaning advice givers) thought of me.  I'm understanding more now that there were people who put far more into MOTH than just a schedule.  I never really did, and if I'm being honest, I was not all that upset when I deviated from said schedule even after I made it.

 

But to be clear I'm not saying I never made mistakes or did things I regret as a parent, I'm just saying the stuff I did do that I regret (that I may have happened to read about in a book or two) is stuff that I did because I thought it would work for us, not for the sake of the book or the authors involved.

[meena]

An author has sway when they present an idea as perfect--do X and your results will be most certainly be Y. And then when your results are Q, 1, @ (iow, not even close to the expected outcome) it can mess with your head, especially if you lack confidence in that area or are in a vulnerable state, such as being an overwhelmed, sleep-deprived new parent. It's not worrying about what the author thinks of you, but rather what you think of yourself when you've tried so hard and yet you can never get to the expected outcome.

 

In my case I found the MOTH forums before I knew of the book, so there was personal input from Teri and her daughter Sarah as well as other moms who were using their methods and following that lifestyle, so that adds another layer of complexity to my experience. Also, I just want to note that MOTH didn't wreck me or my parenting, and I was certainly no lemming. It took me awhile to see behind the curtain to what they were really like, but once I did I was out of there fast! But I sympathize and understand the problems that MOTH caused for many moms who were new to parenting, new to Christianity, or both.

[Rebel Yell]

I think part of the problem is that the Maxwells espouse (or at least used to) that their way is right, and if it doesn't work it's because you are wrong. That is a hard pill to swallow for inexperienced moms, especially those who are new Christians and/or did not grow up in a Christian or organized home. I'm older and more confident now, but back in the days when I had babies I had no one to talk to and my upbringing was not stellar. I had no idea what I was doing, so if the Maxwells said I was doing it all wrong, how was I supposed to know better? Thankfully I figured things out, but I know they have led a lot of impressionable young moms down their rigid path.

 

:crying: :iagree:  Yes, THIS exactly!

 

And not everyone thinks the same way...  SOme people can easily take what works and leave the rest, other people are more "all or nothing" ESPECIALLY if that's what they're told by trusted mentors and laders in the church and homeschool group.

 

think of this like cooking: some people need an exact recipe with very specific steps and instructions, including what size bowls/spoons/etc. to use. Other people can make the same recipe by just glancing at the ingredients and winging it. Most people are probably comfortable in the middle... following the recipe, but using less garlic if that's what their family prefers, using onion powder instead of chunky chopped onions, substituting chicken for pork, and brown rice for the mashed potatoes. I was *NOT* one of those people... I did not know enough to change things up- I had to either follow the exact recipe or nothing at all. So any system where it is either stated, strongly implied, or insisted on by 'live local' followers that it must be done exactly right or *I* was wrong, well, that was just a recipe for disaster.

 

And I still have plenty of leftovers. :glare:

[Ann.without.an.e]

I read it.  I like the idea of it. 

 

I can't follow recipes at all.  I always need to add my own little bit of this or tad bit of that or take away something.  I guess I'm just not a rule follower :coolgleamA:   My day scheduled out to the minute is stressful.  I would rather have a routine.  I also think a routine is more flexible.  If you know that you complete activity A after activity B but before activity C, etc then it isn't so time dependent.  I'm sure my thinking is weird but it works :hat:

[EmseB]

:crying: :iagree:  Yes, THIS exactly!

 

And not everyone thinks the same way...  SOme people can easily take what works and leave the rest, other people are more "all or nothing" ESPECIALLY if that's what they're told by trusted mentors and laders in the church and homeschool group.

 

think of this like cooking: some people need an exact recipe with very specific steps and instructions, including what size bowls/spoons/etc. to use. Other people can make the same recipe by just glancing at the ingredients and winging it. Most people are probably comfortable in the middle... following the recipe, but using less garlic if that's what their family prefers, using onion powder instead of chunky chopped onions, substituting chicken for pork, and brown rice for the mashed potatoes. I was *NOT* one of those people... I did not know enough to change things up- I had to either follow the exact recipe or nothing at all. So any system where it is either stated, strongly implied, or insisted on by 'live local' followers that it must be done exactly right or *I* was wrong, well, that was just a recipe for disaster.

 

And I still have plenty of leftovers. :glare:

 

Exactly this, which is why I think it must be personality driven and has a lot to do with who is following the recipe and not necessarily the cook book itself.  I think that's a really good analogy actually, this is really helpful.  Like, if you keep serving up the same recipe over and over again and you've followed the cookbook to the letter because your friends all say this is the best way to eat and if you don't eat this way your family will die of cancer, and you've bought into the claims that if you don't eat this way your family will get cancer (and who wants their family to get cancer?), but your family hates the food or it makes everyone at the table sick to be eating it, you can hardly blame the cook book for that.  But I am understanding more clearly that if you're the type of person who believes a claim that a book (or group of people) make that say, "If you do this you won't get cancer!" then it can be very tempting to go whole hog into a "system" even if it makes you miserable and may actually cause the disease you're trying to avoid.  I think so much of this could be avoided if people just stopped and examined the claims as they are made.  If someone is saying "X system is going to save your family!" it's pretty easy to reject it.  But a lot of times that claim comes with so much extra baggage it's hard to see it for what it is.

 

But like I said, I just bought the book and read it, so I didn't have any added pressure like you all are talking about.  That didn't come with my copy of the book and (somewhat surprisingly) I didn't read their forums.

[TeacherZee]

Well a lot of books (parenting and otherwise) espouse "very dangerous ideas" but that doesn't mean I have to implement them.  I have no comment on their forum, as I only read the book and took what was useful for me and left the rest.  It's like if I read an attachment parenting book and found that it didn't work with  my kids and made our household unpleasant and stressed me out.  I wouldn't continue to do those things no matter how much my friends did them, no matter what the book said or what the people who wrote the book said.  Obviously the authors think their way is the best way and want to promote that or else they wouldn't have written the book.

 

I guess I'm baffled by people who read a parenting book and feel so dogmatically tied to it that they stress themselves and their children out by trying to adhere to it to the letter and then claim it was the book itself that was the problem.

ETA: as for a "list of demands" that's just silly.  They aren't demanding people do anything.  They sell a book that people are free to use as they want.

 

Perhaps list of demands is the wrong phrase but they absolutely say that if you do not do it exactly our way your family will not turn out perfect. As you can see several other posters have said this.

 

As I said in my post I think it is great that you can take the good and leave the bad, but not everyone can. Many new parents feel overwhelmed and might not have family close by and/or not have had good examples growing up. This will lead them to look at families that appear to have it figured out and it is easy to fall into the trap of believing that you have to do exactly as it says. This is increased because the Maxwell's DO say that it is their way or the high way (to hell).

 

[Orthodox6]

Whoa! That's a strong reaction. How is it humiliating? Maybe I haven't gotten to that part yet? So far, it just seems like a cranked up version of how I normally run my house.

 

Clearly the book and its underlying philosophies work for some people.  If that is the case for someone, good.  (This is just an observation that the approach appeals to some people.)  In contrast, I found the content and tone to be dictatorial, ossified-rigid, and obnoxious.  The book did not make me feel one speck "a failure" because I rejected most of its premises and preachments.  I read it only from curiosity because I have ADHD.  As other people have noted, the book is wholly unsuitable for families with special needs children (and special needs parents, for that matter).

[EmseB]

Perhaps list of demands is the wrong phrase but they absolutely say that if you do not do it exactly our way your family will not turn out perfect. As you can see several other posters have said this.

 

As I said in my post I think it is great that you can take the good and leave the bad, but not everyone can. Many new parents feel overwhelmed and might not have family close by and/or not have had good examples growing up. This will lead them to look at families that appear to have it figured out and it is easy to fall into the trap of believing that you have to do exactly as it says. This is increased because the Maxwell's DO say that it is their way or the high way (to hell).

 

 

Wow, this is worse than I thought.  People who publish a scheduling book actually believe that people who don't use it are going to hell??  They advocate for this??  Certainly makes me not want to keep our copy.  Not to mention that they think their own family is perfect?  That's pretty gross.

 

So, if I had read/heard them saying that stuff I would not have bought the book, useful or no.  But I also cannot take anyone seriously that says a schedule is a determiner of salvation or perfection.  For a family that claims Christianity those are pretty dang unorthodox (to put it midly) beliefs.  So, again, I'm left with befuddlement that anyone takes someone seriously who says they are going to hell for not using their schedule or method of home management, or that a given method will give them a perfect family.  It seems so ridiculous on its face.  I mean, I'd take the highway any day given the two options.

 

I would run from any church, parenting cult, guru, whatever, that claims perfection is attainable and all you need to do is buy my book.  Yikes.

[EmilyGF]

I found Mother's Rule of Life to be much more helpful than MOTH, despite MROL being Catholic and being protestant myself.

 

However, I haven't read it for a while, and I don't tend to be one to take these things too strongly, so take my recommendation with a grain of salt!

 

Emily