Is it possible to have a conversation with someone about how they act after 1 or 2 beers?

[Little Nyssa]

OK, my turn to ask a question, and I hope it won't be too controversial... I would really like a spectrum of responses.

 

I have a friend who lives nearby. Our kids play together all the time and we are very fond of the family. We also see each other fairly often at neighborhood get togethers. We do not agree about everything in life, but we like each other well and generally have no issues.

The problem is that after just 1 beer, which is often served at neighbors' homes, or at outdoor get-togethers, she becomes a little different. There are minor changes and also ones that bother me. She does begin to swear a bit, and she also begins to discuss what her child's future sexual preferences might be (she does not have any problem with what it might be: she is not cutting the child down, it's just that it's an interesting question to her.) These things I would see as personal and just write it off as, that's just her, but the thing that I feel is my business is that after 1 beer, she begins to make disparaging comments about me, especially because I am religious.

I am not sure where this comes from, because without alcohol, she, while not agreeing with me, is quite supportive and cordial- she comes to our church festival (every day it's going on!), asks questions about it. We always talk and discuss things and listen to each other's opinions. Here are some examples: After 1 beer, she will tell me that the reason I don't like the "Far Side" cartoons is because of that 'religious thing'- she'll say that in a disparaging tone. (I never thought of this- I just don't care for that style). When talking about my husband she will disparage him, saying "I don't care if he is the high priest of mumbo-jumbo!" When talking about people, she will bring in insights from her Anthropology degree about human historical development and say 'oh, but you don't believe that sensible stuff, do you- you're religious!' (when actually I have no problem agreeing with her.) These comments look minor when I type them out, but the sudden disparaging tone toward me, from a friend, is quite disconcerting to me.

I should add, I don't think she has a problem with alcohol? She is not super drunk when this happens. Or does this behavioral change mean that she does have a problem?

Some people have advised me that the best thing to do is just not to be around when she drinks-- then gradually she will learn that this cuts her off from people. But if I do that, I will have to avoid many occasions of getting together with neighbors. I like to know my neighbors. I think it's important.

I've tried engaging with her and responding to each comment at the time, but it doesn't help.

I am afraid that the best thing would be to have some kind of conversation with her when she is not drinking at all and ask her if she realizes this is upsetting me. But I am afraid of causing offense and a rift, or something...

Has anyone here BTDT?

OK, I feel very vulnerable putting this out there, but I am just going to post this and see what happens.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hm.  Are you sure she really IS different after one beer?  Or is it that you almost always are with her when she is having a beer?  One beer is not much. 

 

I have no advice.  If I were acting like a douche after one beer I guess I'd want to know. 

 

But it sounds like maybe you just kinda don't like her personality in general. 

 

 

[Guest]

Sounds to me like one beer loosens her up enough that her really feelings come out without a filter. I'd not consider her a friend.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think she could be a friend, but if you don't like what she says then maybe she just isn't your type of friend.

 

 

[Amy in NH]

It seems odd that she would have such a large personality change after only one beer.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah, her filter slips even a little bit and you're left with what she really thinks.  

[Little Nyssa]

I do like her, and I am with her on other occasions, so I know how she usually is... yes, Moxie, I am afraid you might be right about the filter ... yes, and I do think it's odd...

thank you all for these thoughts so far.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I dunno.  I kinda like that personality type.  I don't like wondering what people think.  Tell me what you think.  And I don't mind occasional swear words at the right time. 

[Bluegoat]

One beer isn't very much.  It's actually been documented that people have behavior changes even before they are actually affected by alcohol.  It sounds like it's actually psychological to me - its an excuse in her own mind for speaking more freely than is really acceptable.

 

I think it would annoy me enough that I wouldn't do nothing - those actually do sound like super-catty comments to me, and I might seriously consider punching someone who made that anthropology comment.

 

I think your options would be - don't be around her, or tell her when she says one of these things to knock it off because she is being a t***t, or be nice about it and tell her when she is sober that you find it makes you feel embarrassed or whatever the way she talks after having a beer.  i am slightly skeptical that the last one would have much effect though.

[BigMamaBird]

I have a very low tolerance so one beer is enough for me to think everything is hilarious.  So I don't find the one beer idea to be unusual.  But like a previous poster said, once her filter comes down you hear what she really thinks.  And it doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of respect for your point of view.  If you enjoy hanging out with her I'd keep it up, but I would also hesitate to get very close to her.  We would never be "besties."

[Jean in Newcastle]

Depending on her metabolism, her weight etc. she may indeed have a problem after just one or two beers.  You also don't know if she's taking prescription drugs that could affect how her body handles it or if she has a genetic disposition to alcohol problems etc.  Anyway. . . the issue here isn't really one of addiction but of behavior.  

[Slache]

She sounds exactly like my mother so I'm a little biased here. She's a fake person. She is not a friend. If you call her on it she won't tolerate you anymore. She already doesn't like or respect you or she wouldn't speak to you like that. Don't waste your time on someone that doesn't respect you.

[gardenmom5]

  I don't think she has a problem with alcohol? She is not super drunk when this happens. Or does this behavioral change mean that she does have a problem?

Some people have advised me that the best thing to do is just not to be around when she drinks-- then gradually she will learn that this cuts her off from people. But if I do that, I will have to avoid many occasions of getting together with neighbors. I like to know my neighbors. I think it's important.

I've tried engaging with her and responding to each comment at the time, but it doesn't help.

I am afraid that the best thing would be to have some kind of conversation with her when she is not drinking at all and ask her if she realizes this is upsetting me. But I am afraid of causing offense and a rift, or something...

Has anyone here BTDT?

OK, I feel very vulnerable putting this out there, but I am just going to post this and see what happens.

 

oh - she has a problem with alcohol.  she has very low tolerance for its ability to reduce inhibitions (in her case: of incivility).  iow: drinking rips off her mask of who she *really* is.  she's not a nice person.

 

don't engage with her when she's like this.  just avoid her at these social groups.  if she makes nasty comments - just stare her down, state that doesn't deserve a response, and then walk away. (and if she follows you while insulting you some more - keep walking.  other people will eventually realize what she is really like. and most of the group will start to ostracize her.)

why are *you* afraid of causing offense or a rift - it certainly doesn't bother her.

 

she is not a person I'd want my kids around even when she's sober. (the dichotomy between her sober persona and had a drink persona is too contrary. I wouldn't be able to trust her.)

 

and don't bother talking to her about her drinking problem (because she has a problem with how it affects her behavior.)  it falls in the category of teaching pigs to sing.  it wastes your time and annoys the pig.  I doubt she'd tolerate that conversation from her dearest loved ones.

[Joanne]

It might be that it is one beer you see But others are involved. I would back off time and friendship and only"go there" if she asks why.

[Farrar]

I would just say something - you usually like her, it sounds like you have a pretty open friendship, you're likely to see her in this context a lot. I think there can be an atmosphere where everyone is just a little more loose and a little more forgiving after a beer or two. But you don't feel that way - not when she's saying slightly hurtful things. I think she probably is operating under that idea and doesn't realize it's hurtful - to me it sounds like she's ribbing you in a friendly way, which is sort of a bonding thing for a lot of people. She probably wouldn't mind being called a heathen jokingly or something. Next time she says something like that I would just say something. Like, "Hey, I know you like to loosen up with a beer at these gatherings but sometimes you're sort of ruder to me. Like, do you really not respect me because I'm religious? Because I don't usually feel that way, but what you just said is poking fun at my beliefs. I think maybe you're just teasing, but I'm actually sort of hurt because it seems like you do it a lot."

[gardenmom5]

Depending on her metabolism, her weight etc. she may indeed have a problem after just one or two beers.  You also don't know if she's taking prescription drugs that could affect how her body handles it or if she has a genetic disposition to alcohol problems etc.  Anyway. . . the issue here isn't really one of addiction but of behavior.  

 

this.

we were chatting with a ND who was treating a patient for a genetic mutation.  he was used to drinking ALOT and being unaffected.  after starting tx (which changed his body chemistry) - his tolerance plummeted.  while he was quite annoyed with that - it did save him money on drinks . . . 

[momto10blessings]

I'd say something after each comment

"Well, that was uncalled for/rude"

"Where did that thought come from?"

"What made you think it was ok to say that?"

[Laurie4b]

I wouldn't be sure it's just one beer.  She might drink prior to social occasions. Be that as it may, I wouldn't say anything. Just try to socialize with the other people at the parties when you attend. 

 

If you like her sober, I wouldn't necessarily stop seeing her, but I sure wouldn't reveal anything personal. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm prone to confronting ongoing obnoxious behavior.  I don't think why she's being obnoxious (intoxication, fake personality) is really relevant.  The next time she says something like that I would say in a very matter of fact tone, "Why would you say something like that?"  Then I would wait while crickets chripped in the background for an answer.  If she seemed to think the question was rhetorical I would say, "You seem to think my question was rhetorical but it wasn't.  I'm sincerely interested in what motivates you to say that."  And again, I would keep eye contact and tilt my head slightly and wait silently for an answer.

What is it about American culture that fears asking legitimate questions and giving honest feedback that people clearly need? It's not being mean to them, it's offering them an opportunity to give a  legitimate reason for it and if they can't come up with one, then they're forced to think about it at least for a moment.   She needs a friend who will help her in this area as she's clearly not able to intuit how bad her comments can be interpreted.

[catz]

I would just avoid her unless you had more than a casual freind/acquaintance relationship. If she questions why, then I would tell her.

[albeto.]

I've tried engaging with her and responding to each comment at the time, but it doesn't help.

I am afraid that the best thing would be to have some kind of conversation with her when she is not drinking at all and ask her if she realizes this is upsetting me. But I am afraid of causing offense and a rift, or something...

 

You've already talked with her and nothing changes.

 

Why do you think things will change if you confront her head on?

 

If her company upsets you, I wouldn't keep company with her.

 

But to take her aside and correct her manners? I think that will come across as not only rude, but just weird. Like, Mrs. Crampet, noseybody rude. Or at least, that's how it's likely to appear to her, her family, and anyone she tells. 

[Orthodox6]

I don't have much to add. I could check "like" for maybe all of the posts ahead of mine.

 

When I first was of legal age, one beer would put me away sleeping for the entire night. That intro stage soon passed.

 

I agree that alcohol erases her social filters. Whether she drinks more in private, you may or may not have the experience to catch the clues. Her remarks most assuredly are hostile toward you and your life. Sadly, they probably reveal "the real her".

 

The children all play together, and you do not indicate any problems in the youth arena. Have your own children ever commented to you about strange remarks from the other mom? If you need to hold their interactions to playing outside, try that. Just musing. I never have had such a situation.

 

If you have been confiding in her about personal topics, shut off that tap. Stay with light social chat.

 

When a remark goes waaay over the boundary, you will react spontaneously and politely issue a "cease and desist." (accompanied by walking away if need be)

 

Ever so sorry this happens!

[poppy]

I don't think the beer is relevant, unless you expect her to react to you by stopping drinking.

Don't say "Drinking makes you say mean things, I don't like it".

Just don't tolerate it when she does say them in the moment. 

[zoobie]

There's no point lecturing her about alcohol consumption. The problem isn't the beer, it's that she's an ass. (Well, she may have a problem with beer, but as a casual friend, that's not your problem!) Avoid her.

[Tap]

I agree with the other posters that she isn't the friend she is pretending to be, but that doesn't mean she is a bad person. She is trying to be a good friend to you, but she does seem to feel a little different on the inside, than she portrays to you on the outside.

 

I am a curious sort of person with a thick skin, so Personally I would egg it on next time.  I would keep asking her questions so get to the truth of what she is trying to say.  

 

I would start asking her questions about her anthropology education/ beliefs, to get her into that mental mindset and then ask some very open ended questions about religion.  I would make her comfortable, with lots of nodding of my head and 'I can see why you would have that view point'.  Not necessarily agreeing with her, but allowing her the chance to express her views with out feeling defensive.  

 

The things she says may be hurtful to you, so you would have to be prepared for that. I would ask her questions like "do you come to my church events as someone who is interested in becoming closer to Christ, or as an anthropologist studying a religious group?"  Church groups and events can be wonderful, warm, loving, fun places to hang out.  She may only be going for the social experience, not trying to start a path to worship. 

 

I would ask her what she thinks about a religious group that is different from yours.  I would say "as an anthropologist, what do you think about the different religions like Catholics, or LDS, or JW and how they developed over time.  Whatever Large group would be easy to identify that is Not your particular faith. For example, it can be hard for a non-religious person  to know the difference between Protestant vs Lutheran vs Baptist, but the larger groups are often easier for a lay person to feel they know something about that group. 
 

You might find a vast divide between you too, or you may find that she is really trying hard to be your friend, despite her personal beliefs.

[Guest]

I think your options would be - don't be around her, or tell her when she says one of these things to knock it off because she is being a t***t, or be nice about it and tell her when she is sober that you find it makes you feel embarrassed or whatever the way she talks after having a beer. i am slightly skeptical that the last one would have much effect though.

 

Seriously, you should say a real cuss-word right at her. It might shock her enough to make her reconsider her comdescending talk about "your religion."

[OneStepAtATime]

She may very well see you as a friend and these are just teasing comments from her perspective (some people have thicker skins and like to tease) or she may still think of you as a friend but may also be revealing that at least subconsciously she has no respect for your beliefs and thinks you are kind of ignorant for having them.  Or there could be other motivations for her comments.

 

Since you like hanging out with her normally, I guess your top options are probably:

1.  Only engage in conversation when she has not been drinking.

2.  Engage in conversations but be prepared for her more cutting comments.

3.  Do as Tap suggests and actually engage her in a genuine discussion about her thoughts and beliefs and ask her point blank what she thinks of your religion/beliefs.  (This would be my pick.)

4.  Throw it back in her face every time she says something that hurts your feelings or makes you uncomfortable.

 

FWIW, I have several friends that are NOT religious and think religion is pretty much bunk.  I am sure they wonder why I am a Methodist.  Once in a while they make a comment that made me feel uncomfortable or a bit hurt, but in all these years they have usually been very careful to not make it personal.  They share their own views openly and I am not offended and do not feel judged.  I welcome open dialogue and we can share quite a bit without feeling judged or like the other person is trying to change someone's views. They do not openly criticize me personally for my views/beliefs and I don't criticize them.  We just discuss.  I appreciate that.  

 

What she is doing seems more critical and insulting, and may indicate some pretty strong negative feelings about your faith.  Again, though, that may not be how she feels at all and even if she does,  she may not realize that her comments could be considered hurtful.  She may genuinely think these are just funny bonding comments between friends.  DH and his family can be pretty cutting in their humor.  They are not trying to hurt someone's feelings.  They just like to rib each other and tease.  It is a bonding thing for them.  It took a lot for me to get used to that kind of humor.