AO vs. TOG vs. Wayfarers???

[calihil]

Well, I had planned for awhile to start AO Yr1 with my daughter this coming fall but now I'm just not sure. I really do like the CM method and I like how AO claims to focus on developing character and all that. But it just seems so... antiquated? to me. Not many pictures, old history books... which is ok for maybe a little bit of the curriculum, but it might just be too much for us. Plus a lot of the readings seem to be just way too above the level of where a child would be, IMO. But so many people seem to just rave about it.

 

So I found Wayfarers from this forum the other day and it looks really great. However, I'm hesitant to buy a curriculum that doesn't have a lot of use or reviews. I have also checked out TOG and it looks great, too, but my goodness all those books and it seems kind of teacher intensive. I am about to have 4 kids and the thought of going through a curriculum together like we could with Wayfarers or TOG is really appealing. I know it's discouraged and very hard to pull off with AO.

 

Thoughts? Advice? Anyone have experience with any of them? Left one to go to the other? 

 

Thanks so much :)

[oneddmanybooks]

If you have searched for Wayfarers on these forums, you have already seen my post regarding Wayfarers Ancients. I am very pleased with the thoughtful, well-organized balance of Wayfarers. Kathy's choice of books sometimes overlaps with Ambleside Online's choices. You can try one term for about $34 I think (or less if you buy the PDF).

 

Of course, for kindergarten you do not need to have something like Wayfarers or TOG or Ambleside, but of those three I think Wayfarers would be a great choice. I have looked at AO various times and read some of the articles on the site. I have various CM-related books on my reading list for this summer. I like to choose some of their books as read-alouds or readers.

 

You will find some great advice on these boards for very young children. Read aloud a lot, play, go outside, bake, etc. Keep school simple. If the child is ready, do a little phonics and a little math. I highly recommend you check out the BraveWriter website for fun family ideas like poetry teatime. :)

 

I hope you have a wonderful year with your little ones!

 

 

 

[calihil]

Oh my daughter will be in 1st grade this fall, turning 7 in December. I think I need to update my signature...lol I know that's still young so we'd really be doing light history. I think that's why the 3 appeal to me, especially Wayfarers and TOG. I'm tempted to buy the Wayfarers first term just to be able to flip through it!

[FO4UR]

Well, I can tell you my own thought process, which may or may not help you.

 

TOG has a huge price tag!  Huge!  For the cost of the TOG guide alone, I could buy everything needed to use AO and some extras too.  I needed to spend my money on materials for reading and math first and foremost.  I could find AO books at library sales for $1.  

 

I looked at the SOTW Activity Guides and asked myself, "What would TOG bring that the SOTW AG will not?"  I had a hard time coming up with a good answer...especially when I whittled it down to "What will TOG bring to my young elementary aged children?"  

 

 

I felt no guilt over tweaking a free curriculum.  I want to sub SOTW for the AO history?  Sure, why not?  Can I add a Delta Science in a Nutshell kit to our plans? Sure, no skin off my nose...and I'm still spending a fraction of the cost of TOG!

 

The literature, poetry, art, music, nature stories, nature study, biographies, Shakespeare and Plutarch of Charlotte Mason are the cream & sugar of an educational diet.  Don't miss out!  You don't have to follow AO to follow CM, but AO sure makes it easy to find appropriate and quality materials.

 

 

Would the guilt over getting my $$$$-worth out of TOG take the time away from my cream & sugar subjects?  Those subjects make life worth living, school worth doing, etc...I only exaggerate a little.

 

 

Children will rise to the occasion of a great book.  A child who is fed on Beatrix Potter and AA Milne and Robert McClosky when they are 3/4/5yo is a child who can handle AO Year 1.  AO progresses in difficulty gradually.  Jumping in at Year 4 might be problematic.  Exhausting Year 0 before beginning Year 1 (at age 6/7/8) should be fine.  Honestly, if your own education is lacking (not saying it is, I'm speaking from my own personal experience), your children will adapt to the intricate and beautiful language in the AO books faster than you will.  Conversely, if they are only fed books that are easy to decode and easy to pick apart for the sake of "comprehension," they will likely struggle down the road.  With AO, you do a mix of reading their schoolbooks aloud, buddy reading and independent reading based on the needs of your child.

 

I credit AO, in part, for my dyslexic going from essentially non-reader to reading the real unabridged Treasure Island at age 9.  Yes, we were working hard on remediating the dyslexia, but meanwhile I was reading AO books aloud to him.  He had the English language etched on his heart, so once we worked through the mechanics of reading, he was REALLY reading.

 

 

When you amble through a book, stretching it over the course of a year, rather than reading it all in a week or a month the child retains the story.  When the focus is on careful oral narration in years 1-3, the child retains the lesson and he's gaining useful skills for writing down the road.  TOG schedules (and other schedules too) go too fast through too many books.  It's better to pick the highest quality and work slowly through.

 

 

Part of a CM education is learning how to listen to an idea without necessarily accepting that idea.  AO will take you through a great many books, and some things will lend themselves to that life lesson.  I used SOTW 1-4 with mine.  I'm no longer opposed to using the antiquated books now, however, b/c I am able to have fruitful discussions about discerning ideas.

 

Those are the thoughts that influenced my choices.  The more I am honest with the things that are lacking in my own homeschool, the more wisdom I see in CM.  AO is only one way to do a CM education, and AO will fall flat without a firm grounding in CM's principles, so I would not encourage anyone to use AO if they don't want to study how to use it and why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hunter]

TOG is so worried about people stealing the digital version, that it is unusable for many people that buy it.

 

I like AO better for years 1-6, than after. AO is growing more complicated with the new "CM is classical" trend. AO is based off of CM brick and mortar schools, that were age segregated. Is kind of hard to use AO without forum support and a lot of people are not welcome there.

 

Wayfarers isn't finished yet, but I believe the chances are very high that it will be finished quickly and that all levels will be of the same quality and style of the early levels.

 

Every family is different, and there is no one size fits all curriculum, but of the 3 curricula, my preference after using all 3 is Wayfarers. I have decided I do not want to do slow readings right now, so am not using Wayfarers, but I think it's an excellent curriculum.

[Mrs. B]

I am not familiar with Wayfarers, but Simply Charlotte Mason has great selections and easy to follow guides, suggestions, booklist recommendations, and helpful supplemental materials for most subject areas. There are generous samples for their materials available at their website's bookstore. The forum is helpful and allows discussion of alternative curriculum like this forum if you need to tweak or switch to something different. You can do SCM for nearly free using the library and public domain texts if you choose to just follow the suggestions, but their reasonably priced history guides and supplemental materials are helpful. Some book choices are vintage like the AO selections, but not all.

[Verity]

I am bringing my two younger boys (13 and 9) home after two years at a less than challenging private Christian school where I taught during that time. It was a good opportunity but I missed knowing more in depth what they were learning, thinking and just more about them. Just over the last week at home on Summer break I have finally gotten to start peeling back the layers to help figure out where to start the official next school year back at home. 

I homeschooled for 4-5 years before teaching the last two but I never heard of Wayfarers before so it is new to me. I really love what I have seen of it and I'm seriously thinking that it would be a good fit, or at least worth a try if I can get my hands on a few of the harder to fine books.

Any feedback on Wayfarers is helpful. Prior to private school we were following a four year schedule via WTM suggestions, using SoTW and MUS, various science programs. I'm trying to decide if I should go back to Ancients or start in Medieval since my youngest learned some ancient history this past year at school. 

 

[craftyerin]

I felt no guilt over tweaking a free curriculum.  I want to sub SOTW for the AO history?  Sure, why not?  Can I add a Delta Science in a Nutshell kit to our plans? Sure, no skin off my nose...and I'm still spending a fraction of the cost of TOG!

 

The literature, poetry, art, music, nature stories, nature study, biographies, Shakespeare and Plutarch of Charlotte Mason are the cream & sugar of an educational diet.  Don't miss out!  You don't have to follow AO to follow CM, but AO sure makes it easy to find appropriate and quality materials.

 

 

:iagree: This has been my thought process as well. I use AO as our base and tweak the things that I feel are antiquated, etc.  Despite the insistence of the women on the AO advisory and forum that you lose something important by changing the carefully designed AO plans instead of doing it as written, I think we have a lovely homeschool! 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

If you are just starting out with a first grader, I don't think you need the overwhelming and expensive TOG to start. SOTW with an activity guide does just fine. We are on our last year of SOTW, and I am familiar enough that I am majorly tweaking it for modern and putting together some unit studies throughout the year, but there are plenty of resources, literature and activities in the $25 activity guide. You can spend these four years building up some supplemental resources. If you want to do TOG later on, you can start with SOTW and not miss out on anything. We are planning to start it in 5th grade. By then, you will have four years of history under your belt and know your time constraints and what works well. You will have a better sense of how TOG will work with your children and you as a teacher.

[FO4UR]

:iagree: This has been my thought process as well. I use AO as our base and tweak the things that I feel are antiquated, etc.  Despite the insistence of the women on the AO advisory and forum that you lose something important by changing the carefully designed AO plans instead of doing it as written, I think we have a lovely homeschool! 

 

 

I do think that you lose something when you tweak.  The advisory gave great consideration to the Science of Relations as they planned.

 

That said, we have to look at our own families, and sometimes it is worth losing one thing to gain another.  

 

 

My issue has never been that the books are old.  My concerns have been with the old ideas about race and ethnicity contained in the history books specifically.  That said, I think that meeting the opportunity to model and discuss how we discern ideas and either accept them or reject them is vital.  If I only assigned books that agree with my idealogies, I would be teaching my children to accept all ideas from all books mindlessly.  Eeek!  So, at least from 9yo and up, we will take a peek into different worlds and different times with eyes wide open.

[tjlcc]

Wise words in this thread. OP, have you heard of Charlotte Mason Help?

[mama27]

TOG is so worried about people stealing the digital version, that it is unusable for many people that buy it.

 

 

 

 

They ARE!!!! My gosh its annoying!!

[Bluegoat]

We use tweaked AO, with a dash of Simply Charlotte Mason.

 

I haven't found the old books in AO to be a problem.  One reason for substituting is usually that I have a book that I want to use, and my child is at the right age for that book.  I also haven't always wanted to follow their history rotation, and I don't much care about Plutarch, so we do things a little differently there.  And finally some things they choose are not appropriate for our circumstances - we don't need so much American history, and many of the religious books aren't from a perspective that works for us - I find them on the evangelical side.

 

I have also used some of the Simply Charlotte Mason products from time to time and found them very good, and reasonably priced as well. 

 

[CherryBlossomMJ]

Wayfarers is simply amazing. We are working at our pace in ancients. I don't have time to comment at the second, but we are extremely enthusiastic about this program.

[kristi26]

We are doing AO 1 for first grade this year. I'm making some changes of course. We will go through our own Science course that I've chosen. I've got him doing MUS Alpha and EtC 3-4 (more if he's ready) for phonics...we are skipping any books that I don't think he will like. I have added some here and subtracted some there. We are going to try reading through the history and the literature that they've got there for the most part.

 

I've done TOG with a tiny person (I think DS6 was 2 maybe when we did it...I don't remember). It was a LOT. I had a really hard time keeping up with it and it just wasn't working. I ended up abandoning it and going to something else.  I think we read through SOTW together that year instead.

 

I haven't heard of Wayfarer's and am now off to look that one up, because you know, I'm addicted to curriculum... :leaving:

[Hunter]

No one NEEDS Wayfareres, but if you are planning on spending some money, it's better choice than many others to spend your money on.

 

I can be a scatterbrain, and forget things, but I think Wayfarers is my top pick for what was published in 2014/2015. And if the author finishes things in the same style and quality of Ancients, I predict that Wayfarers will be one of the very most popular curricula in the near future. It's a slam dunk in meeting the needs of what many people are looking for right now.

 

I'm just a bit too scattered to deal with slow readings, and I'm a bit more Amish/Waldorf/Robinson than CM/Classical. I could tweak wayfarers. Almost anyone could tweak wayfarers. It really is preschool-highschool and really is usable for special needs and gifted.

 

There are many many many ways to homeschool, and it really can be done for almost free. But I'm glad Wayfarers is being written. I'm glad it's there. It's very good.

[calihil]

If you are just starting out with a first grader, I don't think you need the overwhelming and expensive TOG to start. SOTW with an activity guide does just fine. We are on our last year of SOTW, and I am familiar enough that I am majorly tweaking it for modern and putting together some unit studies throughout the year, but there are plenty of resources, literature and activities in the $25 activity guide. You can spend these four years building up some supplemental resources. If you want to do TOG later on, you can start with SOTW and not miss out on anything. We are planning to start it in 5th grade. By then, you will have four years of history under your belt and know your time constraints and what works well. You will have a better sense of how TOG will work with your children and you as a teacher.

 

I have thought about this and if we end up using SOTW this is probably what I will do, and just start TOG at 5th grade. Thanks!

[Homeschoolmom3]

For early elementary I think Simply Charlotte Mason is good however I never thought it was enough maybe because I work my kids too hard.  :-/  Anyhow, I am looking into Wayfarers it looks really good I have never used it but am possibly considering it for my youngest when he gets to that age.  TOG I feel is too time consuming I bought one of the older versions and even though looks good I know it would be too much planning for me with my kids spaced out too much.  You could look into Easyclassical.com I used that for my two oldest and liked it well in elementary.  The format is very easy to follow but is more of a classical feel then CM.  Good luck!

[scbusf]

We use ToG - currently my kids are K, 2nd, and 4th grades.  I don't use the Teacher's Notes that much - I will use those much more as my kids get older.

 

If Wayfarers had been around when I started with ToG, I think I may have tried Wayfarers first.  It would have been perfect for the Grammar stages.  But for Dialectic and Rhetoric stages, I will need to Teacher's Notes that are in ToG.  Unless I'm missing that there are Teaching Notes in Wayfarers.

[calihil]

Yes, I do like the Teacher's Notes in TOG, that's one of the things that draws me to it. It do like the Milestones, though, at the end of Wayfarers.

 

I'm not really interested in SCM. I like her Artists studies that she has put together, but I just dont think I can spend 3 years in Ancients!!!

[Homeschoolmom3]

Yes, I do like the Teacher's Notes in TOG, that's one of the things that draws me to it. It do like the Milestones, though, at the end of Wayfarers.

 

I'm not really interested in SCM. I like her Artists studies that she has put together, but I just dont think I can spend 3 years in Ancients!!!

 

I agree!  When we did SCM one year we doubled up and did 2 years in 1.  It wasn't that much more and I thought made it a bit more doable.  :)

[Chelli]

Yes, I do like the Teacher's Notes in TOG, that's one of the things that draws me to it. It do like the Milestones, though, at the end of Wayfarers.

 

I'm not really interested in SCM. I like her Artists studies that she has put together, but I just dont think I can spend 3 years in Ancients!!!

 

Yes, the Milestones at the end of each week in the Wayfarers curriculum is a really nice touch. It's like a more mellow version of the Teacher's Notes in TOG.

[FO4UR]

 

I'm not really interested in SCM. I like her Artists studies that she has put together, but I just dont think I can spend 3 years in Ancients!!!

 

 

 

If you go with CM, I'd recommend AO over SCM any day!  I'd recommend using AO as a template for you to pick and choose your own books (history spine, biographies, nature stories, etc...) over SCM.  I like many things SCM puts out, but I think on the whole it's not as rich as AO.  CM's methods can be used with any living books.  If you have the confidence, you really can pick and choose things that will delight your own dc.

 

No, don't spend 3 years on Ancients!  Good grief!   One thing that makes AO very different from many other currics is that it really takes a very light ancient Year in Year 1.  The focus is very much on wonderful stories rather than a sequence of events.  However, all through the following years, mythology and Plutarch give a fairly clear impression of those ancient times.  Then Ancients is covered in depth for the 2nd time through the pageant of history (Year 6).

 

I can't really say how that would work out b/c we did SOTW along with AO.  My dc really enjoy that series.

 

You can spread SOTW out, doing one chapter a week.  Each book has 42 chapters, and each school year is 36 weeks, so you can stretch the books out over 5 years.  That will give some wiggle room in the schedule for biographies, related geography, historical fiction (use sparingly), etc... from AO or other sources.

[calihil]

If you go with CM, I'd recommend AO over SCM any day!  I'd recommend using AO as a template for you to pick and choose your own books (history spine, biographies, nature stories, etc...) over SCM.  I like many things SCM puts out, but I think on the whole it's not as rich as AO.  CM's methods can be used with any living books.  If you have the confidence, you really can pick and choose things that will delight your own dc.

 

No, don't spend 3 years on Ancients!  Good grief!   One thing that makes AO very different from many other currics is that it really takes a very light ancient Year in Year 1.  The focus is very much on wonderful stories rather than a sequence of events.  However, all through the following years, mythology and Plutarch give a fairly clear impression of those ancient times.  Then Ancients is covered in depth for the 2nd time through the pageant of history (Year 6).

 

I can't really say how that would work out b/c we did SOTW along with AO.  My dc really enjoy that series.

 

You can spread SOTW out, doing one chapter a week.  Each book has 42 chapters, and each school year is 36 weeks, so you can stretch the books out over 5 years.  That will give some wiggle room in the schedule for biographies, related geography, historical fiction (use sparingly), etc... from AO or other sources.

 

Hmm I really like that idea, thanks! So you're saying use SOTW as the history spine and then use the other parts of AO? Every time I have asked about this (or seen others ask about it) on the AO forums, they act like its a mortal sin to change any part of the curriculum!!! lol

 

So you did the AO history along with SOTW? I guess it wouldn't be that much extra reading to fit in....?

[FO4UR]

Hmm I really like that idea, thanks! So you're saying use SOTW as the history spine and then use the other parts of AO? Every time I have asked about this (or seen others ask about it) on the AO forums, they act like its a mortal sin to change any part of the curriculum!!! lol

 

So you did the AO history along with SOTW? I guess it wouldn't be that much extra reading to fit in....?

 

 

That is essentially what I did.  We are finishing SOTW 4 right now.  It is a mortal sin, I know....but I did it anyway. :tongue_smilie:   I cut out TCOO, Trial and Triumph, and much of OIS.  I worked to fit in the biographies b/c those are amazing.  And, I read them in the appropriate year, and did NOT necessarily make them match perfectly in time with the spine.  (and we didn't read them on schedule either...sticky tabs/pick up where we left off/oral narrations) A biography will cover about 50 years over the course of 12-20 chapters while the spine will cover 50 years in 1-3 chapters.  It all comes out in the wash.  In fact, I find that the kids get so much more out of both the spine and the biography when they don't match up.  It requires them to remember what we read 3 months ago.

 

SOTW AGs have supplemental reading, and many of those are wonderful too.  If a book is on both AO and the SOTW AG, it's a "Must Read."  

[craftyerin]

Hmm I really like that idea, thanks! So you're saying use SOTW as the history spine and then use the other parts of AO? Every time I have asked about this (or seen others ask about it) on the AO forums, they act like its a mortal sin to change any part of the curriculum!!! lol

 

So you did the AO history along with SOTW? I guess it wouldn't be that much extra reading to fit in....?

This is essentially what I'm planning for next year, yes. And if you say so on the forum, they definitely act like you're committing a horrible crime.  :tongue_smilie: One of the moderators on the AO forum is a local friend. We get together for nature study sometimes. I keep my mouth shut about how much I am tweaking AO or she gives me a hard time! LOL 

[Saddlemomma]

I've never tried AO. I've looked at it, but it never captured my interest too much, so I can't help there. We've used TOG over the last two years, and DD (going into 7th) has really enjoyed it...because of the book choices.  However, if I see a book choice in TOG that I know she will dislike, unbeknownst to her, I switch it.  This is more difficult in the D & R years because of the discussion questions.  Thankfully, we've been doing Socratic discussions throughout homeschooling so it's not so bad. 

 

The issue for me right now is that I'm already getting burnt out (we do 4 classes through TOG) and so is DD.  We just move at such a fast pace.  Plus, since we're doing interest-led science through middle school, I have to plan extensively for that too.  We never seem to get to art/composer study or any of the "cream & sugar" stuff.  Now, thinking about going into TOG Y4 Moderns for 7th, I'm just really tired, DD's tired, and we need a break next year.  I want her middle school years to be more relaxed before high school, so we can relax and concentrate on weak spots.

 

I heard about Wayfarers (scroll down for the samples) and started exploring.  I've downloaded all the samples for each year.  Kathy Jo has been very generous with her samples (except for Moderns because it's not completed yet). She is also very responsive to questions on her Yahoo group. I REALLY like what I've seen so far. 

• I like the more relaxed approach
• I like so many of her book choices
  • It's based upon living books, but there are textbook options as well for those not comfortable with just using living books
• I like that I can easily substitute a book without jeopardizing the main flow or integrity of the program
• I like that we get a sprinkling of Apologetics with Bible (not integrated into the other subjects)
• Choose your science preference - OEC; YEC; Secular -- book suggestions for all options are provided
• The best thing -- ALL subjects are included except foreign language.

Another note about science: this is the first curriculum I've seen (and I've looked at a lot) that provides a research-based/discovery option for high school science - Bridget Ardoin's Science for High School.  If you have a kid who learns better through discovery, investigation or by researching questions, this would be the science curriculum for them.

 

I feel Wayfarers is attractive for all types of homeschoolers.  The core books are secular so you don't have to worry about which denomination/theology it supports.  If you're not into religion, it's easy to secularize by just dropping Bible class or choosing the secular options.

 

I plan to keep the things DD loves most about TOG (reading about the missionaries & living books for history) and integrate them with the Wayfarers schedule next year. I'll used about half of TOG Y4 book selections & half of Wayfarer's book selections so I'm not adding any additional reading to Wayfarers schedule.  Since I also need to fit in state history next year for our state requirements, I plan to do that rather than Wayfarers geography.  We've also already planned (& purchased)  a Chronicles of Narnia Lit study, so that will replace the lit choices in Wayfarers as well.  I feel that spending $25/term @ 3 terms for the ebook version of Wayfarers Modern will be a small price, compared to full TOG, for dipping our toes in and testing the waters of Wayfarers.

[FO4UR]

This is essentially what I'm planning for next year, yes. And if you say so on the forum, they definitely act like you're committing a horrible crime.  :tongue_smilie: One of the moderators on the AO forum is a local friend. We get together for nature study sometimes. I keep my mouth shut about how much I am tweaking AO or she gives me a hard time! LOL 

 

 

I will admit that I do see how much work went into the Science of Relations, and my 3rd child (who has been through SOTW) is starting AO year 2 as written in the fall.  My older 2 will be combining in a modified Year 5, swapping the history out for A Picturesque Tale of Progress.   The older 2 will just have to have a modified AO until they hit Year 7 b/c using SOTW they way we did messed with the history rotation.

 

Still, I had 2 dyslexics who couldn't read and another in the middle, and combining for history and science (so that we could actually cover it at all) was much more important to me than keeping the AO schedule in the past several years.  The kids still employed the Science of Relations...they didn't lose the ability b/c we veered from AO.  The things I truly regret are missing out on entire term's worth of picture study, composers, and nature walks b/c we had to work so hard to remediate or we had a NICU baby or we were moving (again).

[Jenn in CA]

I am just finishing Y1. Several of the books have pictures so I don't think that's too big an issue. And the old language takes a bit to get used to but it's been so good for my girls.

 

We use the Memoria Press Read Aloud lists for more picture books (about one per week). I love those lists.

 

As far as everyone studying the same thing, which you don't really do with AO like TOG does, you *do* do the same composer, artist, nature study, etc together which has been really nice. I had Y1 and Y4 this past year. I'd rather study things that can truly be appreciated by all ages together rather than have the younger ones reading twaddle for the sake of the histoy rotation.

 

And I really like AO's history schedule. The TOG 4 year rotation feels too fast and repetitive to me.

 

But I do wish someone would make TOG using AO! Wayfarers just isn't quite it...

[marisolstice]

I have 5 going on 6 kids, and my second oldest is the same age as your oldest. We are only a little bit ahead of you, so take my input with salt :)

 

I started with Sonlight, because I needed something to just get us started, and the Ambleside website is so overwhelming. Eventually I realized I don't want to read aloud a lot of historical fiction, and I am a big tweaker, and CM philosophy really resonates with me. TOG looked overwhelming too, and expensive. Wayfarers looks cool (but brand-new; I haven't really looked at it yet). So back to Ambleside I went, and it has been a great (and free!) resource. Some similar concerns as you, though. Outdated history and science, not much new stuff. So I've made changes, and I'm keeping track of what we change so I can easily adapt it for my younger kids. We just finished Year 2.

 

Here are the links to the Year 1 and 2 booklists, and how we've changed them:

 

http://charlottemasonmodern.com/year-1/

 

http://charlottemasonmodern.com/year-2/

 

I'm almost finished planning the upcoming Year 1 for my second child; maybe that will be helpful to look at, so I'll post it here when I get it finished. I'm almost done planning Year 3, too, which will look pretty different from AO with lots more modern books :)

[Amy Jo]

I use AO, and have never used the other two you mention. I wanted to mention that a child really does grow to meet expectations. My youngest son is a May birthday, so he was 6 and a few months when we started AO year 1. He did have to learn to narrate, to pay attention, he was not ready for reading lessons (very, very hyper). But he rose to the challenge. If you looked at him, even today, you'd never think he could handle those old books. His grandmother is shocked by what we read, and he understands and enjoys the selections!

 

Anyway, we are having a very good discussion on modifications to AO on the forums now. No one is being jumped on. :) As others here have said, you need a grounding in CM. AO will not give your child a Charlotte Mason education if you don't know why she did what she did. Likewise, before just replacing a book you should think about why the book is there. Some books are for helping the child grow as a reader (or listener as the case may be), so it's good to substitute carefully, as well as to not overload. You want time to play, to paint, to make things, etc.

 

And I love the deeper probing into CM's philosophy - the new books on her, plus the wonderful work Circe has been doing for years, has really helped me with the vision for our homeschool. I know not everyone loves that type of thing though. Which is good, if we were all like me we dream all day and accomplish nothing.

 

Forgive any typos, my battery is dying.

[Amy Jo]

I use AO, and have never used the other two you mention. I wanted to mention that a child really does grow to meet expectations. My youngest son is a May birthday, so he was 6 and a few months when we started AO year 1. He did have to learn to narrate, to pay attention, he was not ready for reading lessons (very, very hyper). But he rose to the challenge. If you looked at him, even today, you'd never think he could handle those old books. His grandmother is shocked by what we read, and he understands and enjoys the selections!

 

Anyway, we are having a very good discussion on modifications to AO on the forums now. No one is being jumped on. :) As others here have said, you need a grounding in CM. AO will not give your child a Charlotte Mason education if you don't know why she did what she did. Likewise, before just replacing a book you should think about why the book is there. Some books are for helping the child grow as a reader (or listener as the case may be), so it's good to substitute carefully, as well as to not overload. You want time to play, to paint, to make things, etc.

 

And I love the deeper probing into CM's philosophy - the new books on her, plus the wonderful work Circe has been doing for years, has really helped me with the vision for our homeschool. I know not everyone loves that type of thing though. Which is good, if we were all like me we dream all day and accomplish nothing.

 

Forgive any typos, my battery is dying.

[tjlcc]

A Mind in the Light is another CM curriculum.  

[EmilyGF]

I wish AO's book list used more well-written modern titles. 

 

I wish they would let people produce and sell things for their curriculum (I find it so annoying to have to use YouTube for music).

 

The BIG plus of AO, however, is that so many people work on it for free. It isn't a single-person designed curriculum, but an evolving curriculum that changes as the many users give input. Many free helps are available, too.

 

I am someone who always bites off too much and frustrates her kids. I can't take a book list and "pick the best for us" (which is why TOG is off the table fore me).

 

Emily

[LilBearsMama]

Another CM option that we're going to use this fall is Higher Up and Further In. Free, very similar to AO, but I prefer it's books, layout, and schedule. You can find tons and tons of nicely explained info on CM there too. (sorry if that's been mentioned!)

[scbusf]

Ergh. I just started planning for ToG for next year and the libraries near me don't have very many of the Year 2 books. Maybe I'll switch over to Wayfarers :)

 

I actually didn't know much about Wayfarers until this post. It's been a great discussion of all of these options!

[tjlcc]

I have 5 going on 6 kids, and my second oldest is the same age as your oldest. We are only a little bit ahead of you, so take my input with salt :)

 

I started with Sonlight, because I needed something to just get us started, and the Ambleside website is so overwhelming. Eventually I realized I don't want to read aloud a lot of historical fiction, and I am a big tweaker, and CM philosophy really resonates with me. TOG looked overwhelming too, and expensive. Wayfarers looks cool (but brand-new; I haven't really looked at it yet). So back to Ambleside I went, and it has been a great (and free!) resource. Some similar concerns as you, though. Outdated history and science, not much new stuff. So I've made changes, and I'm keeping track of what we change so I can easily adapt it for my younger kids. We just finished Year 2.

 

Here are the links to the Year 1 and 2 booklists, and how we've changed them:

 

http://charlottemasonmodern.com/year-1/

 

http://charlottemasonmodern.com/year-2/

 

I'm almost finished planning the upcoming Year 1 for my second child; maybe that will be helpful to look at, so I'll post it here when I get it finished. I'm almost done planning Year 3, too, which will look pretty different from AO with lots more modern books :)

 

Thanks for sharing.  I enjoyed reading what you chose to change and your reviews.  My older two boys were educated with Heart of Dakota for Years 1, 2, so I am starting fresh with my current 6yo.

[Bluegoat]

I wish AO's book list used more well-written modern titles. 

 

I wish they would let people produce and sell things for their curriculum (I find it so annoying to have to use YouTube for music).

 

The BIG plus of AO, however, is that so many people work on it for free. It isn't a single-person designed curriculum, but an evolving curriculum that changes as the many users give input. Many free helps are available, too.

 

I am someone who always bites off too much and frustrates her kids. I can't take a book list and "pick the best for us" (which is why TOG is off the table fore me).

 

Emily

 

Why not just buy CDs or use MP3s for the music?  I think they mainly give links to Youtube because it is free, and that is the reasoning behind a lot of their other choices too.  If you aren't going to make use of their group discussions on music, there isn't really much advantage to following their music schedule.  You could just go to a used CD store and see what they have from the right period.

[Momofeat]

Here's a little something to muddy the waters for you a bit:  http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/company/products/primer.php#1

 

It's a new program published by TOG that's geared towards young children.

[Amy Jo]

I wish AO's book list used more well-written modern titles. 

 

I wish they would let people produce and sell things for their curriculum (I find it so annoying to have to use YouTube for music).

 

The BIG plus of AO, however, is that so many people work on it for free. It isn't a single-person designed curriculum, but an evolving curriculum that changes as the many users give input. Many free helps are available, too.

 

I am someone who always bites off too much and frustrates her kids. I can't take a book list and "pick the best for us" (which is why TOG is off the table fore me).

 

Emily

 

I buy MP3s on Amazon for our music. :) I agree about YouTube - for me turning it on is a time-sink. I also like the classics for kids radio show.

 

I think another part of the modern titles (besides availability [not going OOP] and cost) is the multiple people. So a strength of AO - having many people giving input - can also become a weakness, when they would all have to buy (or wait for others if sharing) a book, then read it and decide what to replace. It seems one can't have everything.

 

I also try to do too much when I am the planner, so I understand. I really need a challenging, but reasonable list to start with. For me, AO works very well and I'm really excited to watch some of these changes.

[marisolstice]

Thanks for sharing.  I enjoyed reading what you chose to change and your reviews.  My older two boys were educated with Heart of Dakota for Years 1, 2, so I am starting fresh with my current 6yo.

Thanks for reading! Do you know what you'll be using with your 6yo? I have a 6 yo starting Y1 pretty soon.

[tjlcc]

Thanks for reading! Do you know what you'll be using with your 6yo? I have a 6 yo starting Y1 pretty soon.

 

My 6 yo is finishing Year 1 now.  She turns 7 next month.  We used:

 

Singapore Primary Math 1B

The Verbal Math Lesson

Life Of Fred Apples

Life of Fred Butterflies

Mind Benders

 

McGuffey’s Primer (2^nd half)

McGuffey’s 1^st Reader

emerging readers – various titles

Teaching Character through Literature by Beautiful Feet – Primary

The Children’s Classic Poetry Collection

 

McGuffey’s Speller

manuscript copywork from McGuffey’s 1^st Reader and other sources

 

Mystery of History – Volume 2 (AD 30 - 1456) (audio only)

 

Egermeier’s Bible Story Book

daily Scripture reading (ESV version)

 

Thorton Burgess titles – animal stories

Let’s-Read-and-Find-Out series – picture books

Seasons (Berger)

gardening and animal care

 

 Lessons in Responsibility for Girls – Level 1 – Home Economics

A Little Book of Manners (Barnes)

 

Taekwon-Do

Soccer (seasonal)

Home Art Studio – Grade 1

 

 

Odd formatting.  I just copied and pasted from my report form.  For Literature, I read Little House in the Big Woods, Betsy Tacy, and Courage of Sarah Noble with her.  We do read-alouds at night too with everyone.  She did not sit in on Morning Time this year.  I would not repeat the Let's Read and Find Out series.  I simply don't enjoy reading them. :)

[Bluegoat]

 

 

No, don't spend 3 years on Ancients!  Good grief!   One thing that makes AO very different from many other currics is that it really takes a very light ancient Year in Year 1.  The focus is very much on wonderful stories rather than a sequence of events.  However, all through the following years, mythology and Plutarch give a fairly clear impression of those ancient times.  Then Ancients is covered in depth for the 2nd time through the pageant of history (Year 6).

 

I can't really say how that would work out b/c we did SOTW along with AO.  My dc really enjoy that series.

 

.

 

This is pretty much how we handled history in Year 1 and 2, though not quite with the AO selections- it really isn't formal at all.  It has worked out really well for us actually,. For year 3 and then especially for year 4 my dd has been doing a formal survey, and she is really ready to dig into it in an organized way that is quite different than what she could do before.  I don't think following a formal history rotation at a younger age would have been more effective than just the history stories we did.

[Professormom]

If you are just starting out with a first grader, I don't think you need the overwhelming and expensive TOG to start. SOTW with an activity guide does just fine. We are on our last year of SOTW, and I am familiar enough that I am majorly tweaking it for modern and putting together some unit studies throughout the year, but there are plenty of resources, literature and activities in the $25 activity guide. You can spend these four years building up some supplemental resources. If you want to do TOG later on, you can start with SOTW and not miss out on anything. We are planning to start it in 5th grade. By then, you will have four years of history under your belt and know your time constraints and what works well. You will have a better sense of how TOG will work with your children and you as a teacher.

 

This is good advice. I use TOG and love it, but we did Sonlight for the younger years, and I wouldn't change that now for anything. Using SOTW for youngers will work great, unless you really WANT to wade through TOG (and some people do:-) As your dc go through elementary, you will be able to see into their learning styles AND you will know more about how you like to teach AND you will know more about what kind of program actually.gets.done in your house. TOG is a long-term investment, lol, so knowing your kids and the reality of your homeschool as it develops is a good idea.

[marisolstice]

I'm just popping in to say I finished planning Year 3. It's loosely based on Ambleside (with lots of changes to history and science). I told what I subbed, and why. Here's the link:

 

http://charlottemasonmodern.com/year-3/

 

I will have a 3rd grader, 1st grader, learning-to-read Ker, plus the three younger kids. My emphasis is skill subjects (so that is where I try to be teacher-intensive with each of them). I'm not a huge fan of combining kids, but I am combining about 5 readings that are used in both Year 1 and Year 3...I think we will do all of those together on Mondays, and then the girls will do their own subjects the rest of the week. Trying to streamline my work as much as possible, KWIM? So I'm not reading two different Shakespeare stories to two different kids!

 

 

 

[MargaretS]

I initially looked into TOG first because I really liked all that it covered. After looked closely at the 3-week samples...I just don't know if it would work for us. It requires a lot of time and reading on my part. This wouldn't usually be bad, but it's hard to read every book that each student is reading so you can be prepared to discuss. I guess alternatively, you could just ask the student to present what they read...but I'd still feel the need to check the material to ensure comprehension...TOG has quite a lot of material that would need checking on my part, especially if you have many kids and different ages. I still like the curriculum overall though...but there is the issue of the price. In general, the cost of a curriculum doesn't matter to me...I'm mostly more concerned about rather the value equals the cost....im not sure the TOG does...at least for the way id use it. But like I said, I like it and find myself keep coming back to look at the sample. 

 

As far AO and Wayfarers, I really like both. I'd def tweaking both in the math and science areas, but I like the other ideas. My concerned with Wayfarers, however, is that it's not complete yet... I'm slightly apprehensive about starting something that I might not be able to finish. That's probably just my OCD.

 

I "think" my vote would be Wayfarers....but I'm just not sure. Also, maybe you could check out http://www.oldfashionededucation.com/ it's also a free curriculum. :) 

[melmichigan]

I initially looked into TOG first because I really liked all that it covered. After looked closely at the 3-week samples...I just don't know if it would work for us. It requires a lot of time and reading on my part. This wouldn't usually be bad, but it's hard to read every book that each student is reading so you can be prepared to discuss. I guess alternatively, you could just ask the student to present what they read...but I'd still feel the need to check the material to ensure comprehension...TOG has quite a lot of material that would need checking on my part, especially if you have many kids and different ages. I still like the curriculum overall though...but there is the issue of the price. In general, the cost of a curriculum doesn't matter to me...I'm mostly more concerned about rather the value equals the cost....im not sure the TOG does...at least for the way id use it. But like I said, I like it and find myself keep coming back to look at the sample. 

 

As far AO and Wayfarers, I really like both. I'd def tweaking both in the math and science areas, but I like the other ideas. My concerned with Wayfarers, however, is that it's not complete yet... I'm slightly apprehensive about starting something that I might not be able to finish. That's probably just my OCD.

 

I "think" my vote would be Wayfarers....but I'm just not sure. Also, maybe you could check out http://www.oldfashionededucation.com/ it's also a free curriculum. :)

The idea behind TOG is for the parent to be given the information they need in the teacher's pages, so that they do not to have to read every book that each student is reading. 

 

I took a few minutes to glance at Wayfarers today.  The one thing I can say about all the programs mentioned is that they have many overlapping books (TOG, SL, AO, Wayfarers).

 

I agree with the SOTW suggestion.  When in doubt that is my "go to" resource for history in LG, and it's usually our family read aloud for LG/UG.  It's also one of the alternative core books in TOG UG.

[Ewe Mama]

Listening in to get some ideas for next year...