I feel for Bruce Jenner.

[Free]

Or never openly accepted because it is abnormal.

 

And you think it is a good thing to not accept people who deviate from the normal?

 

[Joker]

There are two very different lines of thought on it. Is it really impossible to imagine that it is abnormal?

 

Yes. My dd is not abnormal. She's bright, witty, and kind. I'm incredibly blessed to have her in my life just the way she is. I thank God for her daily. Again, she is not abnormal and it is impossible for me to view her as such just because she is gay.

[Murphy101]

You're equating a genetic predisposition with abnormality? With deformity?

 

Transgenderedness, and for that matter, homosexuality, is no more an abnormality or deformity than is having blue eyes instead of brown. Shall we implement preventative measures against non-brown eyed people while we're at it?

If brown-eyed people start having such deep psychological developments that they struggle to function in relationships and start to feel they can't live with themselves as brown-eyed people anymore. Just putting a pair of blue eye contacts on so they can be accepted as blue-eyed is not enough. No, they want to remove their eyes and replace them with something else bc they just can't bear living with a body that has brown eyes, even if they color them blue, even if everyone loves them regardless. If that ever starts happening? Yes. Absolutely. I would want to know what was causing children to be born with such a traumatic disposition towards themselves. If it were morally possible, I would avoid setting my future children up to have that disposition. If they did anyways or it was not morally possible to avoid it, we would all cry very frequently I would think bc that does have to be an awful situation to live with every day of a person's life and I imagine it is a 24/7 struggle for them and those that love them. And no, I don't think that is normal development and I don't think it is unloving to want to prevent a future child from feeling that way if it can be morally avoided.

[Scarlett]

And you think it is a good thing to not accept people who deviate from the normal?

 

I can accept people while recognizing that they have an abnormality.

 

Because all of us are imperfect.

[Free]

I can accept people while recognizing that they have an abnormality.

 

Because all of us are imperfect.

 

You cannot accept people while being disapproving of them.

[DragonFaerie]

I think the use of the word "abnormal" to describe any human being is disgusting.

 

 

ETA: "Normal is just an illusion.  What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly." ~ Morticia Addams

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I can accept people while recognizing that they have an abnormality.

 

Because all of us are imperfect.

 

So...how often do you call other people abnormal?

[Scarlett]

I think the use of the word "abnormal" to describe any human being is disgusting.

I didn't say a person was abnormal I said humans can possess abnormalities. A chemical imbalance. A missing limb.

 

And I totally get that to those of you who feel homosexuality is WHO a person is it seems shocking to say there is something wrong with it....but what if it is just like any other thing that goes wrong in the human mind or body....what if those feelings of being attracted to the same sex or wanting to become another gender than what you were born...what if those feelings are abnormal?

 

I know this conversation will go nowhere on this thread. People who are posting have their minds made up. But hundreds more are reading and lurking and I hope if someone has a spouse or a child or themselves are struggling with these feelings they can know that there are people out here who have deep compassion for that struggling while believing it is something to resist not give in to.

 

The loudest voices insist it all just be accepted and embraced....but there are people out there staying true to their beliefs even when their feelings don't match up,

[Scarlett]

So...how often do you call other people abnormal?

Re read what I wrote. I said people...all of us...HAVE abnormalities. You are trying to inflame. I don't go around in my every day life having the type of discussions we are having here. An anonymous forum is unique in that way.

[Murphy101]

I can accept people while recognizing that they have an abnormality.

 

Because all of us are imperfect.

Right. Because "abnormal" means nothing more than outside the norm. There's nothing slanderous about it.

 

Knowing someone has an abnormality in no way at all means they are viewed as lesser people or aren't loved.

[swellmomma]

Oh, so because people SAY they are "born that way", than we accept it, without evidence, on the mere assertion?  That's your argument?  That just doesn't work for me.   

 

How can anyone say why precisely why specific people end up in sexual relationships with others of the same or opposite gender?    Opportunity presenting itself, mostly.  I absolutely think many if not most people could go any direction, given early experiences shaping them in that direction.   That's what is a choice (though of course, very young people have less choice, and it is often coercive/pressure-filled in those early relationships, leading them to think that whatever they engaged in is what "is right for them", what they are supposed to engage in, so they continue).

 

Who can say, about you (or me - or anyone, in particular)?  You may have had inclinations in one direction or the other (I don't know you or what you believe, or with whom you have a relationship).  But you chose whether to run with it or not, whatever it was.  You decided it was right or you wouldn't do it.  So did I decide what was right.  Then my relationships formed around my beliefs, over the years and now.   Like everyone else. 

um, yup.  My daughter was born blond, and blue eyed, and artistic and independent and bisexual.  She did not choose to be.  It is not due to early experiences making her thus.  She simply is, because she was made that way.  

 

And I don't care is she marries a man or a woman or one of each in a polyamorous relationship.  SHe is still my beautiful daughter, the way God made her no matter who she is attracted to.  ANd you can't even blame it on early relationships because she is still a virgin, has still never been kissed or been on a real date.  But she knows herself and she knows what she is attracted to.

[Joker]

Right. Because "abnormal" means nothing more than outside the norm. There's nothing slanderous about it.

 

Knowing someone has an abnormality in no way at all means they are viewed as lesser people or aren't loved.

 

That's how they are made to feel, though. Do you deny that or disagree? Those that do not understand those who are not straight spout off this kind of stuff all the time but it doesn't make it okay. My dd is only 15 and feels lesser and unloved because of who she is. The constant barrage of "hate the sin, love the sinner" and "marriage is only one man, one woman" gets that message across clearly to my dd. My dd is only 15, has never had a relationship, but already felt the world might be happier without her in it because of this crap. She was made to feel less than. She was made to feel like someone unworthy of love. All because of something she cannot control. You can say all day that isn't what you mean, but that is the message sent most often.

[Joanne]

There are two very different lines of thought on it. Is it really impossible to imagine that it is abnormal?

 

Only if you *also* imagine being heterosexual or cisgendered is created by environment, abnormal, or a choice.

[Scarlett]

That's how they are made to feel, though. Do you deny that or disagree? Those that do not understand those who are not straight spout off this kind of stuff all the time but it doesn't make it okay. My dd is only 15 and feels lesser and unloved because of who she is. The constant barrage of "hate the sin, love the sinner" and "marriage is only one man, one woman" gets that message across clearly to my dd. My dd is only 15, has never had a relationship, but already felt the world might be happier without her in it because of this crap. She was made to feel less than. She was made to feel like someone unworthy of love. All because of something she cannot control. You can say all day that isn't what you mean, but that is the message sent most often.

I think it must be very difficult to receive conflicting messages from society/parents and internal desires.

 

I am curious though how much negativity is she getting if she hasn't had a relationship. How would anyone even know what her sexual preferences are if she isn't acting on them?

[Scarlett]

Only if you *also* imagine being heterosexual or cisgendered is created by environment, abnormal, or a choice.

I believe our actions are a choice. Not every feeling has to be acted upon.

[Joanne]

That's how they are made to feel, though. Do you deny that or disagree? Those that do not understand those who are not straight spout off this kind of stuff all the time but it doesn't make it okay. My dd is only 15 and feels lesser and unloved because of who she is. The constant barrage of "hate the sin, love the sinner" and "marriage is only one man, one woman" gets that message across clearly to my dd. My dd is only 15, has never had a relationship, but already felt the world might be happier without her in it because of this crap. She was made to feel less than. She was made to feel like someone unworthy of love. All because of something she cannot control. You can say all day that isn't what you mean, but that is the message sent most often.

 

Yup.

 

And with all the rallying around against "progressive thinking", or "liberalism", or "political correctness", or the "homosexual agenda" - sexual minorities *still* live in a hostile context surrounded by hate uttered by people who deny the hate.

 

The psychological effects of being a sexual minority in this culture (NOT of being a sexual minority) are profound. While it's changed a bit, the hate is so entrenched that will will take beyond my children's generation to change the suicide, self harm, and substance abuse statistics of that population.

 

[Joker]

I think it must be very difficult to receive conflicting messages from society/parents and internal desires.

 

I am curious though how much negativity is she getting if she hasn't had a relationship. How would anyone even know what her sexual preferences are if she isn't acting on them?

 

She is getting the negativity from the world around her. It is everywhere. She sees it through media, from friends, family, etc. She doesn't need to yell from a rooftop her preferences to know what people think. She thought we would be the same until she finally told us. We told her we loved her and didn't care and her reaction was devastating. Do you really think these children have such a hard time telling their loved ones they're gay for no reason?

[Χά�ων]

I think it must be very difficult to receive conflicting messages from society/parents and internal desires.

 

I am curious though how much negativity is she getting if she hasn't had a relationship. How would anyone even know what her sexual preferences are if she isn't acting on them?

This is a serious, non snarky question. I am not seeking an answer, but feel it need to be said and asked. I am asking for the reader to think and reflect.

 

How did you know what your sexual preferences were? Was it before you started dating? After? Did you date both men and women? Did you have sex with a man, a women, both at the same time before you realized what you preferred? Or did you just know? 

[Joanne]

I believe our actions are a choice. Not every feeling has to be acted upon.

 

Gender (and orientation) are not a choice. Who I have sex with is, and to a degree the gender I present as is.

 

And none of the above carry any character or moral implications. Being trans or being gay, lesbian, or bi isn't a "feeling" that people "act on."

 

It is as much a part of their humanness as your own cisgendered heterosexualism. And - guess what - no one is denying you legally sanctioned marriage, access to the right bathroom, or invalidating your **core** with dismissive statements about your gender or sexuality.

[Scarlett]

Yup.

 

And with all the rallying around against "progressive thinking", or "liberalism", or "political correctness", or the "homosexual agenda" - sexual minorities *still* live in a hostile context surrounded by hate uttered by people who deny the hate.

 

The psychological effects of being a sexual minority in this culture (NOT of being a sexual minority) are profound. While it's changed a bit, the hate is so entrenched that will will take beyond my children's generation to change the suicide, self harm, and substance abuse statistics of that population.

I can't speak for anyone else but I feel no hate for anyone.

[Scarlett]

Gender (and orientation) are not a choice. Who I have sex with is, and to a degree the gender I present as is.

 

And none of the above carry any character or moral implications. Being trans or being gay, lesbian, or bi isn't a "feeling" that people "act on."

 

It is as much a part of their humanness as your own cisgendered heterosexualism. And - guess what - no one is denying you legally sanctioned marriage, access to the right bathroom, or invalidating your **core** with dismissive statements about your gender or sexuality.

We will have to agree to disagree on this subject. Feelings aren't easy to change and maybe impossible....but feelings also often follow actions....the more we act on feelings the more deeply entrenched they become.

[swellmomma]

dd15 says "y'all just can't handle my awesomeness"

She is right, it is not an abnormality it is just another part of who she is, even if who she is, is a weirdo anime freak :lol:  

(had to add that last part because she is sitting here with me for a moment)

 

[Scarlett]

This is a serious, non snarky question. I am not seeking an answer, but feel it need to be said and asked. I am asking for the reader to think and reflect.

 

How did you know what your sexual preferences were? Was it before you started dating? After? Did you date both men and women? Did you have sex with a man, a women, both at the same time before you realized what you preferred? Or did you just know?

Re read my post. I asked how OTHERS knew her sexual preference when she is only 15 and never been in a relationship. I asked where she was getting so much negativity for her sexual preference. I didnt ask how she knew what she preferred.

[Joanne]

I can't speak for anyone else but I feel no hate for anyone.

 

Every time this topic comes us - which I admit is a lot - you (and others) say this.

 

And every time, you ignore the mothers, sisters, and board members in the discussed population when they tell you that your perspective (any form of "love the sinner, hate the sin" or "it's ok if you are lbgt, just don't act on it" or "get a civil union but leave marriage for a man and woman" - the sexual minority population experience your perspective as hate. It is on the continuum of hate. It forms, shapes, allows for deeper, more profound, more angry, defensive, pathological hate and how that plays out. But that hate obscures the every day contextual hate found on bumper stickers supporting "traditional marriage", FB memes, a half dozen conservative celebrities who pretend to be "news" but are in fact entertainers. The hate is as much of the over-culture as Christianity itself.

 

And it gets denied - which is simply more hate.

[Joanne]

We will have to agree to disagree on this subject. Feelings aren't easy to change and maybe impossible....but feelings also often follow actions....the more we act on feelings the more deeply entrenched they become.

 

Actually, I agree with your sentence fragment and conclusion.

 

It's your premise I don't agree with. I see no more reason for a trans or gay person to not "act" than for a straight or cis person.

[Χά�ων]

Re read my post. I asked how OTHERS knew her sexual preference when she is only 15 and never been in a relationship. I asked where she was getting so much negativity for her sexual preference. I didnt ask how she knew what she preferred.

That part of your question was answered. I still think asking yourself (general you) those question will go a long way to building empathy and understanding for non cisgender and non heterosexual people. 

[Scarlett]

Every time this topic comes us - which I admit is a lot - you (and others) say this.

 

And every time, you ignore the mothers, sisters, and board members in the discussed population when they tell you that your perspective (any form of "love the sinner, hate the sin" or "it's ok if you are lbgt, just don't act on it" or "get a civil union but leave marriage for a man and woman" - the sexual minority population experience your perspective as hate. It is on the continuum of hate. It forms, shapes, allows for deeper, more profound, more angry, defensive, pathological hate and how that plays out. But that hate obscures the every day contextual hate found on bumper stickers supporting "traditional marriage", FB memes, a half dozen conservative celebrities who pretend to be "news" but are in fact entertainers. The hate is as much of the over-culture as Christianity itself.

 

And it gets denied - which is simply more hate.

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's kinda hateful to go on and on about it though.

 

 

[Scarlett]

Actually, I agree with your sentence fragment and conclusion.

 

It's your premise I don't agree with. I see no more reason for a trans or gay person to not "act" than for a straight or cis person.

Yes I know this about you. And you know how I feel. We will not agree on this topic.

[Χά�ων]

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

It is not a lifestyle choice, it is who they are. Did you choose to be cisgender and straight? 

[Scarlett]

It's kinda hateful to go and on about it though.

Well, yes, sometimes it is difficult to stop,talking especially when people are putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things I am not.

[Jenny in Florida]

Really?  Do you even watch the news? People are now losing jobs because they believe in traditional marriage, when once upon a time, that was unthinkable, because that is the way the world worked, we knew then. 

 

No, no one is losing a job because he or she "believes in" (or doesn't believe in) anything. The problems occur when people choose to act in ways that our laws and society have decided are not acceptable because they are discriminatory and hurtful.

 

You, personally, are free to believe whatever you wish. As the old saying goes, if you don't approve of gay marriage, then don't have one. In a society founded on the rights of freedom and the pursuit of happiness, not to mention separation of church and state, the fact that you are uncomfortable with someone else's choices/beliefs/gender/sexuality doesn't actually mean you have to denounce them publicly.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

She is getting the negativity from the world around her. It is everywhere. She sees it through media, from friends, family, etc. She doesn't need to yell from a rooftop her preferences to know what people think. She thought we would be the same until she finally told us. We told her we loved her and didn't care and her reaction was devastating. Do you really think these children have such a hard time telling their loved ones they're gay for no reason?

Your dd would be welcomed into my teens diverse (straight, lgbt, black, white, bi-racial, Morman, atheist) circle of friends. I believe there is a lot more acceptance in my kids' generation.

 

Free to be, you and me. 😊

[Scarlett]

It is not a lifestyle choice, it is who they are. Did you choose to be cisgender and straight?

I chose my actions. Yes I did. And btw sometimes I made mistakes with my actions. Stopping and not doing a thing I believed was wrong was also my choice.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

dd15 says "y'all just can't handle my awesomeness"

 

She is right, it is not an abnormality it is just another part of who she is, even if who she is, is a weirdo anime freak :lol:

 

(had to add that last part because she is sitting here with me for a moment)

 

 

I just want to bring my weirdos over to hang out with yours! Awesome overload!

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

 

Lifestyle choice?

There is the problem.

 

Hateful actions do not require hateful feelings.

 

In this case, the hate stems from the continued conversation as if this is a choice.

 

It is not.

 

The continued assertion there is choice involved is inaccurate, and demonstrates the hate folks are speaking of.

[Joanne]

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

 

Again, you are denying the lived reality and words of millions of people who DO experience your perspective as hate.

[BrookValley.]

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

So why do you get to outright dismiss the emotions of others?

 

1) It's not a choice.

 

2) it absolutely DOES translate to hate to those targeted. These are real, live people on the other side of your computer screen, you know? A lot of people have been very raw and real about themselves, their partners, their families, their children. It does hurt. It is hateful to dismiss someone's reality and then, on top of it, suggest they "not act on it", which means you are suggesting they live a lie, or live without a fulfilling relationship. While you do get to live true to yourself and with the partner you are attracted to? How is that not telling a LGBT person they deserve less than you?

 

 

(Edited for typo/missing word)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Lifestyle choice?

There is the problem.

 

Hateful actions do not require hateful feelings.

 

In this case, the hate stems from the continued conversation as if this is a choice.

 

It is not.

 

The continued assertion there is choice involved is inaccurate, and demonstrates the hate folks are speaking of.

 

But don't you see?  They could have made the choice to hide who they are or to never have a relationship with some to whom they are attracted.

[HRAAB]

You do not get to tell me I hate anyone. You cannot possibly know how I feel. Saying I believe something is wrong doesn't mean I hate someone. It just doesn't. I get that it must be hurtful to know not everyone is accepting of a lifestyle choice, but that doesn't translate to hate.

I believe you when you say you don't hate anyone. However, can you understand that the words abnormal and disordered, especially when applied to a person's core, sounds and feels hateful? How a mother can feel it's hateful when those words are applied to her child?

[Jenny in Florida]

Unrelated issue, not involving the meaning of marriage...a man and a woman becoming "one". 

That only involved melanin. 

 

And yet at the time, many of the exact same arguments that are now being used to justify attempts to prohibit marriage equality were used to argue against interracial marriage, too.

 

There's a wonderful video of a minister speaking to a city council or similar governmental body. He speaks for a few moments about how same-sex marriage is a sin, quotes some Bible passages, etc., then seems to get confused or lose his place. He apologizes and explains that he must have misplaced his notes and is accidentally using arguments from 60 years ago about interracial marriage. He ends by explaining that the arguments being made against same-sex marriage today are no more valid than those old arguments were then. 

 

And he sits down.

[ktgrok]

You're equating a genetic predisposition with abnormality?  With deformity? 

 

Transgenderedness, and for that matter, homosexuality, is no more an abnormality or deformity than is having blue eyes instead of brown.  Shall we implement preventative measures against non-brown eyed people while we're at it? 

 

But doesn't the trandgenered person think of it as a deformity? They are having surgery to correct it, they were born in the wrong body and are correcting that wrong, that defect. Homosexuality is totally different. But in this instance, I thin it is safe to say that it is the transgendered person saying it is a problem, hence the desire to transition to another gender. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Are you saying I shouldn't state my opinions in threads like this? Or anywhere? Ever?

 

I think what some of us are saying is that there seems little to be gained and a lot of potential for hurt to be done to real, live human-type people when folks wade into a thread that begins with support and compassion for a person trying to come to grips with a major life issue and start expressing disapproval and speculating about what must be "wrong" with that person and others in the same situation to "make them that way."

 

You have a right to your opinion.

 

You have a right to state it.

 

You don't have a right to state it without consequences.

 

It might, perhaps, be appropriate to choose NOT to state your opinion when all it is likely to do is cause hurt.

 

(Lather. Rinse. Repeat.)

[marbel]

But doesn't the trandgenered person think of it as a deformity? They are having surgery to correct it, they were born in the wrong body and are correcting that wrong, that defect. Homosexuality is totally different. But in this instance, I thin it is safe to say that it is the transgendered person saying it is a problem, hence the desire to transition to another gender. 

 

This is what I was going to ask but couldn't figure out how to word it.  

 

[Χά�ων]

I chose my actions. Yes I did. And btw sometimes I made mistakes with my actions. Stopping and not doing a thing I believed was wrong was also my choice.

So, you chose to be a women and straight? I am wanting to clarify and make sure I understand you completely. Please correct me if I am off.

 

1. You choose to dress and present as a female. I am assuming you were born female. You say you choose to be a women. Does that mean you felt like a man and then made the decision to present as the sex you were assigned at birth?

 

2. You choose to only be with men. Does that mean you were attracted to both or just women but made the choice to only be with men? 

 

If 1 is accurate you may not be cisgender after all. You could be agender (not having a gender) or non binary androgynous (other or both male and female). 

 

2. If you are not only attracted to men, but just choosing to only be with men you could be what is called bisexual or even a lesbian who is is just with men (I actually have several friends who are lesbians but for various reasons are married to a man). Or you could be asexual and just going with cultural norms and expectations.

 

None of this is bad. It just is. If you choose, then you are unique. Most do not get a choice. Most are very extreme in being male or female or preferring men or women. If I am close, that really could explain the breakdown in communication. 

 

 

 

And yet at the time, many of the exact same arguments that are now being used to justify attempts to prohibit marriage equality were used to argue against interracial marriage, too.

 

There's a wonderful video of a minister speaking to a city council or similar governmental body. He speaks for a few moments about how same-sex marriage is a sin, quotes some Bible passages, etc., then seems to get confused or lose his place. He apologizes and explains that he must have misplaced his notes and is accidentally using arguments from 60 years ago about interracial marriage. He ends by explaining that the arguments being made against same-sex marriage today are no more valid than those old arguments were then. 

 

And he sits down.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u4Z3n2Fnyc

[Jenny in Florida]

um, yup.  My daughter was born blond, and blue eyed, and artistic and independent and bisexual.  She did not choose to be.  It is not due to early experiences making her thus.  She simply is, because she was made that way.  

 

And I don't care is she marries a man or a woman or one of each in a polyamorous relationship.  SHe is still my beautiful daughter, the way God made her no matter who she is attracted to.  ANd you can't even blame it on early relationships because she is still a virgin, has still never been kissed or been on a real date.  But she knows herself and she knows what she is attracted to.

 

This is a lovely (and loving) statement.

 

I feel the same way about my own daughter. She's a little older than yours, I think, and has begun dating a bit. But, honestly, we were far from shocked when she came out as bisexual. This was a kid who was passionate about marriage equality from the very first moment someone explained to her that gay people couldn't marry each other. We, as a family, participated in our first marriage equality protest when she was about eight, at her urging. 

 

So, now someone will tell me that it was because we were willing to participate in that protest that my kid "turned out" bisexual, right?

 

All I can say is that you had to know her to see that simply wasn't true. She was who she was. She is who she is now. (Which happens to be strong and brilliant and talented and thoughtful and driven and accomplished and amazing.)

 

And, of course, my son is three years younger and, therefore, "exposed" to those experiences for an even longer chunk of his life -- and spent most of his childhood in theatre and dance virtually surrounded by LGBT folks -- and yet he is most definitely straight. He, too, was who he was and is who he is. (Which happens to be be strong and brilliant and talented and determined and thoughtful and accomplished and frustrating and amazing.)

[Jenny in Florida]

I am curious though how much negativity is she getting if she hasn't had a relationship. How would anyone even know what her sexual preferences are if she isn't acting on them?

 

What's important is that she knows what her sexual preference is, and she is bombarded every day by messages such as the ones people have posted here telling her that this essential thing about her -- who she loves -- is wrong.

[Jenny in Florida]

 

 

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u4Z3n2Fnyc

 

Thank you! I was going to go look for it, but you beat me to it.

[Free]

I know this conversation will go nowhere on this thread. People who are posting have their minds made up. But hundreds more are reading and lurking and I hope if someone has a spouse or a child or themselves are struggling with these feelings they can know that there are people out here who have deep compassion for that struggling while believing it is something to resist not give in to.

 

The loudest voices insist it all just be accepted and embraced....but there are people out there staying true to their beliefs even when their feelings don't match up,

 

Hmmm, let's see. On this thread alone there are people who have:

• Called other people abnormal.
• Said that LGBT are not born that way and that they just deliberately make a choice because of their wicked proclivities.
• Suggested to a mother that her child may have been sexually abused and may have hidden that from her.
• Suggested uncharitably that a person is going through a difficult transition because they are either greedy for more money or more fame.
• Suggested that LGBT tendencies develop due to steroid use without any evidence to back such a claim.
• Said that they feel they must keep declaring their disapproval of LGBT people loudly and frequently (... lest any LGBT person even for a moment stop feeling shameful and start growing comfortable in their own skin).

Now, forgive me for snorting at your claim these people have deep compassion for the struggle of LGBT. If this is what deep compassion looks like, I dread to think what you would call hate.

[LucyStoner]

But doesn't the trandgenered person think of it as a deformity? They are having surgery to correct it, they were born in the wrong body and are correcting that wrong, that defect. Homosexuality is totally different. But in this instance, I thin it is safe to say that it is the transgendered person saying it is a problem, hence the desire to transition to another gender.

Not all transgendered people have surgery. Breast implants or breast removal are far more common than SRS or "lower" surgery. This is partly due to cost and financial considerations and partly due to risks (such as possible loss of sexual climax) inherent in such a surgery.