New Common App Question Will Ask Students to List Other Colleges Applied to

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Blech

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/23/admissions-leaders-question-ethics-common-applications-new-question

 

My oldest has strong scores and A's in his CC courses.  But he is choosing not to apply to any Ivies or hyper selective schools.  His reach school has a 16% selection rate.  Academies are very competitive but go down if you toss out the not completed applications. 

 

Maybe in a way this would be good for his apps, because it would communicate that he was more likely to attend a Purdue or VA Tech if admitted.  But I can't help but think that it's none of the schools' business exactly where he is applying.

[bettyandbob]

yuck.

[plansrme]

Hmmm.  I think that is interesting.  I've wondered (and have considered starting a thread on) whether it hurts your chance for merit scholarships if a college knows you're not applying anywhere else that is a better deal for you.  So, I wonder if having nothing in that field would hurt you in the scholarship department.  Plenty of kids don't apply to but one school no matter how many times their intelligent and well-meaning mothers who love them dearly and only want what's best for them tell them they need to apply to several and not just stay where they are doing dual enrollment even though it's a great school.  Not that we've had this conversation/yelling match at my house or anything; I'm just speculating that this might go on in other people's houses.

 

[MysteryJen]

Hmm, I guess colleges have figured their applicants out. But then, do they mean applying to colleges that use the common app? What if you apply to one common app school and others with their internal application?

 

I guess I would only list the ones applied to that require the Common App.

[raptor_dad]

Wow! Since the Common App folks have been sued in the past on anti-trust grounds, I  can't imagine why they would open this can of worms. This would seem to allow/encourage collusion in college admissions. Other groups that do this like the Medical School Residency Match have explicit legislative exemption to anti-trust laws.

[Crimson Wife]

I wonder if it will be a required question or could a student skip it?

[snowbeltmom]

I wonder if it will be a required question or could a student skip it?

 

If you can't skip it, I wonder if the response, "This is none of your business" will be an option?  :cursing:

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

There are some interesting comments on the article at the link.  One of the problems I have with the question (and with schools that read into the schools listing on the FAFSA application) is that it involves a school reading meaning into something that may have no real meaning for the student.

 

 

 

[TechWife]

I wonder what would happen if the student simply wrote "confidential" instead of answering the question? For that matter, what if a student changes his/her mind and decides not to submit an application, or submits an application that wasn't listed on the common app? My son didn't need to fill out the common app, so I'm not really familiar with the process. 

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think it will be perceived as giving the college the information they need to judge if they are the applicant's "safety".   It also allows them to gauge if the applicant is likely to attend a school other than theirs and therefore reject the student to improve their own selectivity rating.   The assumptions made to come to the above conclusions are likely to be wrong and may not represent the student or their actual intentions or their families ability to fund an education at a given institution. But in the end it is none of the school's business.  

 

I do like one commentors advice-always list schools in a situation like this alphabetically rather than preferentially if you must list them at all.

[Laura Corin]

I don't like the question at all.  The UK common app is carefully designed to make it hard to see where else you are applying - universities can't even see what order you listed them in.  

 

There are clues - Oxford and Cambridge have earlier deadlines, and as it's just one essay, savvy universities can probably work out where you are targeting - but I think asking an explicit question is not a good idea.

 

ETA: we have a limit of five universities per applicant, however, so the universities aren't dealing with the kind of volumes I hear about in the US.

[vonfirmath]

I wonder if it will be a required question or could a student skip it?

 

Do kids generally know ALL the colleges they are going to apply to when they start this process? It seems to me you'd fill out the App for a particular college, then may go back and modify it and submit to another after getitng more information in the mail. Etc.

[Catherine]

Well since I have two out of two college kids attending their safeties, I'm not enthusiastic at all about this idea.  It's the kind of thing that honestly makes me think that there must be some way for applicants to fight back against a rigged system. 

[wapiti]

Is it possible to avoid using the Common App or do some schools require it?

[MysteryJen]

Some schools require it, meaning it is the only way to apply. Lots of schools have their own form that is linked to the "apply now" button. Some schools accept either their own form or the Common App.

[snowbeltmom]

Is it possible to avoid using the Common App or do some schools require it?

 

Most schools require it or the Universal Application, although there are a few schools that have their own application.

 

[TechWife]

Is it possible to avoid using the Common App or do some schools require it?

 

Schools vary - some have their own application, some use the common app and some have their own but will take the common app. None of the school ds had on his short list took it, and by the time he applied his short list was down to one university, so he applied to that one university by filling out their application. 

[TechWife]

Most schools require it or the Universal Application, although there are a few schools that have their own application.

 

 

Is it really "most schools?" I ask because ds didn't have to fill it out and we personally know a lot of people who didn't have to fill it out, either. The students applied to a wide variety of schools - public, private, in-state, out of state, small schools, big schools, just about every variance you can imagine. 

 

ETA: I just looked at the common app website - they state it is accepted by "over 500" colleges, so to me that means more than 500 but less than 600. That is no where near the majority of colleges and universities.  

[creekland]

The only pro to this that I can see is it ought to stop those who apply to "All the Ivies" (or similar)" just because.  A school could look and see that.

 

I doubt a thoughtful list would be penalized in general, but I could see some schools using it to reject "safety" students if they feel the need to improve their stats.  This could be really detrimental because many students only get into (or can only afford) their safeties.

 

I don't know that financial aid offices see applications, but I could be wrong.  I suppose a school could use the info however they wanted to to offer merit or need based packages.

 

And yes, they still won't know about apps to other schools if not part of the Common App.

[FaithManor]

Boy oh boy....Wolverines vs. Spartans...heaven help the student that applies to both! And well, it goes without saying that the discrimination if they apply to U of MI and Ohio State......

 

;)

[*LC]

In reading the article, I didn't see a source for "The Common Application is planning to let colleges add a question ... Where else are you applying?" So, hopefully this will be a non-story as right now it is just a story about the NACAC's opinion about what such a question could possibly mean. 

 

 

 

 

My oldest has strong scores and A's in his CC courses.  But he is choosing not to apply to any Ivies or hyper selective schools.  His reach school has a 16% selection rate.  Academies are very competitive but go down if you toss out the not completed applications. 

 

Maybe in a way this would be good for his apps, because it would communicate that he was more likely to attend a Purdue or VA Tech if admitted.  But I can't help but think that it's none of the schools' business exactly where he is applying.

 

Of course, it is none of their business. Is your son applying for ROTC scholarships. If so, that would make it even crazier since he could get a ROTC scholarship to the reach school, but not be admitted. I was talking to a college student who received a ROTC scholarship to a private school with an acceptance rate around what you mentioned, but she was not accepted to the school. She was accepted two state universities, different states, but she only received the ROTC scholarship to one. There could have been more schools/academies involved, but three schools were all that were mentioned during our conversation. Since she was only going to go wherever she received a ROTC scholarship, there would be no way for the colleges gauge what her applications (or even acceptances) meant. 

 

There are some interesting comments on the article at the link.  One of the problems I have with the question (and with schools that read into the schools listing on the FAFSA application) is that it involves a school reading meaning into something that may have no real meaning for the student.

 

I think it will be perceived as giving the college the information they need to judge if they are the applicant's "safety".   It also allows them to gauge if the applicant is likely to attend a school other than theirs and therefore reject the student to improve their own selectivity rating.   The assumptions made to come to the above conclusions are likely to be wrong and may not represent the student or their actual intentions or their families ability to fund an education at a given institution. But in the end it is none of the school's business.  

 

I do like one commentors advice-always list schools in a situation like this alphabetically rather than preferentially if you must list them at all.

I agree. During her junior year of high school, my college kid had to tell her guidance counselor where she planned to apply for college and her back-up school. Her back-up school was higher ranked. How would have the schools known that? She simply had it as a financial safety, and she ended up not even applying to it. 

 

 

 

[snowbeltmom]

It looks like for those of us who apply for financial aid and submit the FAFSA, there would be no need to ask the question on the Common Application because the colleges already know where our kids are applying, and that information can be used against them. 

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/10/28/colleges-use-fafsa-information-reject-students-and-potentially-lower-financial-aid

 

"Some colleges are denying admission and perhaps reducing financial aid to students based on a single, non-financial, non-academic question that students submit to the federal government on their applications for student aid.

Millions of high school students and their parents probably have no idea this happens after they fill out the ubiquitous Free Application for Federal Student Aid. The form, known as the FAFSA, is used by nearly every American who needs help paying for college."

[EKS]

I thought that question was already on the Common App.  I remember discussing whether or not to answer it.

[Teachin'Mine]

I thought that question was already on the Common App.  I remember discussing whether or not to answer it.

 

It's not on the common application, but at least one of the college's supplemental questions asks for that info.  Dd  was honest, and not admitted.  I hope for future students this change doesn't go through.   I also remember this question being asked of dd when we did some tours.  Caught off guard students, who might think better of answering fully with more careful consideration, are probably more honest. 

[katilac]

Most schools require it or the Universal Application, although there are a few schools that have their own application.

 

 

I haven't found this to be so at all. More of the schools we are looking at don't use common app at all, and all of the ones that do also have their own application. 

[Luckymama]

I haven't found this to be so at all. More of the schools we are looking at don't use common app at all, and all of the ones that do also have their own application.

Maybe this is regional?

 

All of ds's and dd20's schools used the Common App with or without supplements. The schools ranged from NY state to Virginia, 10 in all.

[katilac]

Maybe this is regional?

 

All of ds's and dd20's schools used the Common App with or without supplements. The schools ranged from NY state to Virginia, 10 in all.

 

Probably so - we are looking in the southeast. 

 

There is one school on her secondary list that requires either the state app (which I'm guessing you only use if you live in-state?) or the common app. That one's in Texas. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

There are some interesting comments on the article at the link.  One of the problems I have with the question (and with schools that read into the schools listing on the FAFSA application) is that it involves a school reading meaning into something that may have no real meaning for the student.

 

 

I think it will be perceived as giving the college the information they need to judge if they are the applicant's "safety".   It also allows them to gauge if the applicant is likely to attend a school other than theirs and therefore reject the student to improve their own selectivity rating.   The assumptions made to come to the above conclusions are likely to be wrong and may not represent the student or their actual intentions or their families ability to fund an education at a given institution. But in the end it is none of the school's business.  

 

I do like one commentors advice-always list schools in a situation like this alphabetically rather than preferentially if you must list them at all.

 

 

 

I just don't see how schools can judge based on a simple list whether they are a safety or where a student will or will not get accepted.  Do they really know for sure that the student will get accepted at the other school(s) or if accepted be offered the aid they need in order to attend?  Particularly if several of the schools are fairly selective?  My dd's favorite school is not the most selective school she will apply to :confused1:  

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I just don't see how schools can judge based on a simple list whether they are a safety or where a student will or will not get accepted.  Do they really know for sure that the student will get accepted at the other school(s) or if accepted be offered the aid they need in order to attend?  Particularly if several of the schools are fairly selective?  My dd's favorite school is not the most selective school she will apply to :confused1:  

If I were the admissions officer I would know the applicant's GPA and test scores (at a minimum).  I could then use what I know of other colleges' middle 50% and admissions practices to determine if my school seems like the safety, the fit, or the reach-similar to how a student identifies this for themselves.  Is the student reaching for lots of schools they won't get and therefore is likely to attend my school? Do they have lots of higher ranked schools than mine on their list that are fit or reach schools and therefore are less likely to attend my school?

 

All of this would be based on knowing that years' applicant pool, assumptions about the applicant's desires, a knowledge of the inner workings of admissions, and knowledge of the competitor institutions.

 

If they were to use this sort of practice, they aren't (IMH0) necessarily concerned with what will actually happen to any individual student or having any certainty about where they really want to attend or might be accepted but rather they are using data mining and a set of assumptions to improve their selectivity rating and improve their own enrollment/conversion rate.  I would hope that schools won't succumb to this sort of practice.