bethben Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 “When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.†Garrison Keillor So, the public school not only is supposed to educate the masses, but also provide the glue for our community? That's a tall order. Reading further into this, it seems to be that the argument is that charter schools, private schools, and homeschooling splinter society into different factions. If we all bonded together around the public school as is, we would be a more cohesive society. When my kids were still pre-school, I saw how the public school in our community became the center point for everything. EVERYTHING seemed to revolve around the school. When I first moved to our neighborhood, a lot of people had preschoolers. We would have community block parties, Easter egg hunts, Halloween parties, stuff like that. One guy even had a birthday party for himself and invited the neighborhood to watch him shoot off hundreds of July 4th type rockets. Then, all the kids grew up and started going to school. Suddenly, the neighborhood stuff fell away as the people with children started going to family movie nights, carnivals, and other fun nights for families at the public school. So, the people with older children or for example our next door elderly neighbors with no children lost their "community" because it had shifted to a public school center. The community we were building got taken over by the public school schedule. It splintered our "community". Now, I see how much the public school schedule controls families and their time. Honestly, it's really sad to me. Remember when the church used to be the center of a community? My Greek friend across the street told me when she grew up, every neighborhood had a church at it's center because in that culture, the church was the "glue". Now I know there are some who have had bad experiences and I don't want to debate this here, but a church encompasses all age groups from singles to parents with babies to senior citizens - not just families with kids who are all the same age. I know that the church itself is also splintered, but really- the public school should be our community glue?!?! And since we're not supposed to get political here, the whole thing that somehow conservatives are to blame for our fractured community just strikes me as odd. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Demonizing the opposition. It's the modern way to end debate. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Well, I've gone to carnivals etc. at our public schools. They are open to all of the public. I do think that the public schools provide community. I don't think they are the only community though. We get just as much community at our local Y (which brings people together from a couple of different public school districts). And the conservative comment? Don't know what he's reacting to there but it sounds like a reactionary comment. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Without seeing any context, I may be wrong, but just from what it says here, he's not talking about you. Unless you are "waging war" against public schools, he's not knocking you. He's not calling conservatives vandals, he's calling those attacking public schools vandals. Most homeschoolers I know want public schools to be better. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 What exactly does he mean by "waging war on public schools"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I do not read it like this at all. It is not even about the school building being the center of community activities. To me, a public education available to all is crucial to civilized society. That does not mean you can't opt out for your own reasons and home educate, or that you are attacked for doing so. But having a strong public school system is in the best interest of society as a whole. ETA: So, the "mortar" would not be the school building, but the education of the population. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I would also be angry at the quote. I am from a small town where the school provided a lot of community. Before there was cable or satellite TV in our town everyone went to ball games and concerts. Like Little House on the Prairie, lol. Those days are long gone. I don't view school as being the best way to have community. As I became more aware of how segregated large schools are I take a dim view of such "community. The high school my oldest attended was segregated from within. The best classes were for teacher and administrator's kids and wealthy parents who gave booster contributions or gave other money to the school. Dress code was enforced against some minority groups and not others grrrr. Playing time for sports was also for kids whose parents contributed. At my cousin's son's high school a parent actually made a chart showing that the football team had given playing time in direct accordance with booster club contributions of parents. Shockingly (not) the team was not winning. Choir was not much different. You had to sit through kids who could not sing, but got solos because their parents had pull in the community. I have no respect for most of that community. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I live in very rural MN and the public school is the center of our community. School events are where people (all ages and even homeschoolers ;) ) go for entertainment. The community ed programs (offering programs from tots to seniors) are run through the school district. I dunno. It doesn't seem to be a leap to call our schools the mortar that holds the community together. Without context, I don't know what Keillor is referring to as "war" in his quote. Locally, people of all political persuasions (and even homeschoolers) strongly support our public schools. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 It appears the quote is from his 2004 book "Homegrown Democrat," and he's referring to people who don't want to pay taxes for public schools once their kids have graduated. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 It's Garrison Keillor. I don't expect much from that one. And I don't think your reaction is off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 It appears the quote is from his 2004 book "Homegrown Democrat," and he's referring to people who don't want to pay taxes for public schools once their kids have graduated. Then why does he state it in the way he does? Say something to the effect that we need to have an educated populace and we all need to support that. The way he quotes it is divisive and seems to imply that unless we make public schools the center of any places sense of community, we are vandalizing the very fabric of society. That's what bugs me. I saw this first on a friend's Facebook page. One of the people who agreed with it was a person who's daughter was very traumatized for weeks due to high stakes testing (according to her). Looking into the quote, it has been used on numerous sites as a way to show how alternate public schools (charter, private, homeschooling) are wrecking society's community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Then why does he state it in the way he does? Say something to the effect that we need to have an educated populace and we all need to support that. The way he quotes it is divisive and seems to imply that unless we make public schools the center of any places sense of community, we are vandalizing the very fabric of society. That's what bugs me. I saw this first on a friend's Facebook page. One of the people who agreed with it was a person who's daughter was very traumatized for weeks due to high stakes testing (according to her). Looking into the quote, it has been used on numerous sites as a way to show how alternate public schools (charter, private, homeschooling) are wrecking society's community. Here's the link. I'm staying out of the actual discussion because I can't go into it without getting too political. ETA: Argh, it's not linking properly, but the quote is the start of the second paragraph after the, "8. Democrats are Diehard Teachers" heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Then why does he state it in the way he does? Say something to the effect that we need to have an educated populace and we all need to support that. The way he quotes it is divisive and seems to imply that unless we make public schools the center of any places sense of community, we are vandalizing the very fabric of society. That's what bugs me. I saw this first on a friend's Facebook page. One of the people who agreed with it was a person who's daughter was very traumatized for weeks due to high stakes testing (according to her). Looking into the quote, it has been used on numerous sites as a way to show how alternate public schools (charter, private, homeschooling) are wrecking society's community. The way *he* quotes it? He didn't quote it; he said it, in full context. Someone else quoted *him*, as did you, without context. How exactly is he supposed to prevent that? 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The way *he* quotes it? He didn't quote it; he said it, in full context. Someone else quoted *him*, as did you, without context. How exactly is he supposed to prevent that? This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethben Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 I read the full quote. I do see the point he is trying to make but he does it in a divisive way. I guess it's his filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Then why does he state it in the way he does? Say something to the effect that we need to have an educated populace and we all need to support that. The way he quotes it is divisive and seems to imply that unless we make public schools the center of any places sense of community, we are vandalizing the very fabric of society. That's what bugs me. I saw this first on a friend's Facebook page. One of the people who agreed with it was a person who's daughter was very traumatized for weeks due to high stakes testing (according to her). Looking into the quote, it has been used on numerous sites as a way to show how alternate public schools (charter, private, homeschooling) are wrecking society's community. That's what happens when somebody is quoted out of context. If you read his words in context, you see that he does not mean the bolded at all. But of course, on facebook only snappy sound bites are quoted - without context. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I read the full quote. I do see the point he is trying to make but he does it in a divisive way. I guess it's his filter.1. It's from a partisan political book. 2. As much of the divisiveness comes from how it is read as how it is written. Unless one is attacking the public schools in some way I don't know why they would think this is directed at them, even taken out of context. Homeschooling is not an attack on public schools. Not using the public schools is not an attack on public schools. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Demonizing the opposition. It's the modern way to end debate. There's nothing new, or even vaguely unique to modern times, about this. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 In my experience, when a lot of the people on the left talk about the "attack" on schools and teachers, they don't mean people who are criticizing the school's methods - they also have a critique of that too. It's more about people who believe there should be no public funding of education in any way. That's a political stance that some conservatives have. However, they don't mean homeschoolers or people who criticize school texts or standardized tests or anything along those lines. Just trying to share a perspective. I suspect this conversation will become too political to continue... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 “When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.†Garrison Keillor So, the public school not only is supposed to educate the masses, but also provide the glue for our community? That's a tall order. Reading further into this, it seems to be that the argument is that charter schools, private schools, and homeschooling splinter society into different factions. If we all bonded together around the public school as is, we would be a more cohesive society. Do you have a link or a source that would put this quote into context? Because it seems to me there's a big difference between simply opting out of one's local public school and "waging war" or "attacking" the public education system. I would actually agree that some kind of high quality, free education is accessible to all is of vital importance to the United States as a country. We can all quibble and/or downright argue about whether what we have now lives up to that standard, of course. And I chose not to put my own children into the public schools because we believed that, for them and for our family, we had a better option available. However, that does not mean I want to see the entire public education system torn down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The quote has nothing to do with homeschooling or charters or private schools; it's about people who object to paying taxes to fund public schools. Here is the paragraph this quote is pulled from: When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal. The sorehead vote is out there, the guys who have a few beers and wonder why the hell they should have to pay taxes for the schools when their kids have graduated, What's the logic there, Joe?, and you can rouse them up and elect a school board to take revenge on the teachers and you do your community no favors. Ironically, this quote is pretty much the mildest and least acerbic thing Keillor says in that whole chapter, so it's strange that this is the quote that would stir up outrage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Do you have a link or a source that would put this quote into context? Because it seems to me there's a big difference between simply opting out of one's local public school and "waging war" or "attacking" the public education system. I would actually agree that some kind of high quality, free education is accessible to all is of vital importance to the United States as a country. We can all quibble and/or downright argue about whether what we have now lives up to that standard, of course. And I chose not to put my own children into the public schools because we believed that, for them and for our family, we had a better option available. However, that does not mean I want to see the entire public education system torn down. A link was posted above, in the middle of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Then why does he state it in the way he does? Say something to the effect that we need to have an educated populace and we all need to support that. The way he quotes it is divisive and seems to imply that unless we make public schools the center of any places sense of community, we are vandalizing the very fabric of society. That's what bugs me. I saw this first on a friend's Facebook page. One of the people who agreed with it was a person who's daughter was very traumatized for weeks due to high stakes testing (according to her). Looking into the quote, it has been used on numerous sites as a way to show how alternate public schools (charter, private, homeschooling) are wrecking society's community. The author is not responsible for the way others use or interpret his words. That's why I asked for context before jumping to conclusions and reacting without understanding the idea more fully. If he was, indeed, writing specifically about people who want to withdraw financial support from public schools because they, themselves, don't have kids enrolled, then that is quite different from making a general statement about conservatives who opt for private/charter schools or for homeschooling. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I think people intentionally trying to tear apart public schools are _not_helping communities. I to think they are harming communities. I don't know anyone, personally, whom I believe is trying to tear apart public schools, but if I did, I would think they are (whether they know it or not) harming communities. Yes, in some areas churches held communities together as well, but we are in more of a pluralistic society and not everyone is Christian. This is one reason that I believe a secular system that benefits an entire community is probably better for community building on a larger scale--and has been for a long time. Nothing wrong with churches providing community as well, but they're not for everyone. Public schools are supposed to be available to everyone who wishes to participate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 A link was posted above, in the middle of the thread. Yes, I posted before I saw the link, but it seems that the full paragraph does say something quite different from the way the quote was interpreted in the original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Although I understand this quote is intended to criticize those who do not want to pay taxes for public schools, there are many people who take that further and feel anybody who doesn't keep Their children in the public school is doing the public school harm. So. I've come to expect this kind of attitude from public-school apologists, and not just someone who is p a small segment of the population and who doesn't want to pay the taxes for school . I'm not sure what to say about it except I just gave up long ago on it being an effective way to educate my kids or large groups of children. So I feel no guilt at "vandalizing" the public school system if "vandalizing" means me putting my time, money, and efforts into another form of schooling for my kids. I wish public-school no ill will, but my efforts will no longer be aimed in that direction. I have mixed feelings about paying school taxes. I can see the value of the public school, but it seems as if taxes now are just thrown down a rat hole for ineffective education. I completely agree with your opinion and analysis of how the school has taken over the community. Once my children went off to elementary school, their days were taken up in school, their afterschool times taken up bysports, and weekends often involved school sponsored events. Community that was outside of school kind of faded away, which, despite being a public entity, really didn't do much to attract the elderly, childless, those with babies, and those with older children 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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