WWYD in this situation re homeschool vs public school--UPDATE in Original Post

[Arcadia]

Ds did confirm that she did tell him he just needs to deal with the problems at school.....it's "perfectly normal" and "what all kids have to go through". :confused1: Both she and my dad have a very nostalgic view of public school from when they were in school in the 1950's. "

A few of my neighbors just said the same thing today via email in the neighborhood mums group about the bullying going on in the local middle school. They said bullying is common everywhere and parents have to teach their kids how to deal with it. They were the same people who blame neighbors for running away to charter schools after k-5.

 

A neighbor said her daughter was targeted for being nerdy.

 

ETA:

I meant some people of my generation still have that attitude, not just OP's parents' generation :( These moms are active in the PTA by the way which makes it worse.

[Renai]

A few of my neighbors just said the same thing today via email in the neighborhood mums group about the bullying going on in the local middle school. They said bullying is common everywhere and parents have to teach their kids how to deal with it. They were the same people who blame neighbors for running away to charter schools after k-5.

 

A neighbor said her daughter was targeted for being nerdy.

 

I don't understand those who say that. Common doesn't make it right. Suicide due to bullying is becoming more common as well. 

[LucyStoner]

I would be cautious about thinking the Catholic school will be a fix. If he is gifted and struggles socially and with executive functioning, we found that the parochial schools were unprepared to address those things. Perhaps this school is prepared but I would go in eyes wide open.

 

Because they are parroting your mom, I would probably figure out how to address that (setting a boundary or finding other childcare) before deciding. I think it is quite likely that without that negativity being fed to them, they may remember the positives about homeschooling and want to come home after all.

 

My ILs weren't too hot on homeschooling and I just had to make it clear I didn't care what their opinions were. Now that my older son is doing so well and doing things they think impressive, like a selective admit summer program at the university etc, they have changed their tune. Regardless, I don't need their approval.

[NittanyJen]

 That's pretty good to get "You were right, Mom" in the teen years. :laugh:

 

Yes, the social culture and indoctrination at public school is much worse than we expected. I never thought it would be great, but it's far worse than I expected.

 

As for my mother.....yes, I will be having a talk with her, when I'm not as angry and after I talk with dh. I'm guessing she has said many of these things to either my dad or sister within earshot of my dc when they are there. Ds did confirm that she did tell him he just needs to deal with the problems at school.....it's "perfectly normal" and "what all kids have to go through". :confused1:  Both she and my dad have a very nostalgic view of public school from when they were in school in the 1950's. They weren't involved at all with the schools when my sister and I were kids, and we never told them anything that went on even back then in the 90's.

 

ETA: I don't take the "ruining my life" comments from dc all that seriously......isn't it pretty much the mom's job to ruin their kid's lives? Seems to be the case no matter what choices we make. :laugh:

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this.  It's hard enough to deal with your kids without parents acting like kids too.

 

Best wishes.

[Tsuga]

I am so sorry, especially that the kids said those things, and that part of the push is coming from family. :(

 

We public school. However, we sacrifice to stay in a good district with great schools.

 

My 2 cents:

 

1. Bullying is never, ever okay. It is always the bully's fault. This, however, leads me to believe that your son is really getting the worst of it with one proximate cause being his behavior / attitude (not to say it is in ANY way his fault because he is NOT responsible for other people's bad behavior, but to say--yes, there is a reason they look for kids like your son):

 

like the school hallways/cafeteria and even our old neighborhood, he seems to be a bully magnet. I'm not exactly sure why this is. 

Ds is desperate to make a friend at school, which has contributed to doing some foolish things

 

When the know he needs them, he is easy to control. Bullies look to control. He's an easy target to control.

 

That might have been the case whether or not he'd ever have been homeschooled, if that's his attitude. I am so sorry he is in that situation.

 

2. It's your job as a parent to make sure he's getting an education. Getting Bs and Cs in public school, particularly an uncontrolled one in which kids are bullying, swearing, etc. is equivalent to getting Ds, because it's a ticket to no college. If he's a full grade level below the average grade, I would say--you're bringing up your grades or getting homeschooled. End of story. Public school isn't working or he's not working or something.

 

3. THAT SAID--Middle school is really, really, really, REALLY HARD. It is so hard. It is so hard for so many people. This board is FULL of posts by people who have trouble with their pre- and early-teens. It is HARD. Lots, lots, lots of people lose the plot for awhile at this point. This may have happened no matter what. It is a time of immense personal, physical, psychological and social change for every person who goes through it. I got horrible grades in seventh grade. I was smart, wasn't bullied. Could anything have prevented it? Maybe I could have been totally coddled to the point of having everything perfectly arranged for me, sure. But ultimately I learned a lesson about motivation at that time. So what I want to say is, homeschooling or not, it is normal to detach a bit from expectations and try to find your own way at this age. Fun? No. And I'll be singing a different tune when my kids are that age I'm sure. My stepson and my nephew have both done this, both of them bright, top 10-3rd percentile in everything. Public schooled, great schools, involved parents. Okay? And they have had their moments. It happens. It is not fun. But it's not caused by public school or homeschool or private school or anything.

 

Puberty, unfortunately, is caused by being human and kids experience it in different ways.

So whatever you do, be there for your son, set limits and boundaries as needed, but don't blame yourself for the fact that your kid is human.

 

I say that gently because I am definitely the WORST at blaming myself for having human kids.

[birchbark]

Just skimmed the replies, so I don't know if this has been mentioned yet: Would hiring a tutor be another option for you? That can be a tough age to homeschool even without additional pressures. Ask me how I know. :)

[yvonne]

It is so hard for a child not to have a friend. :(  It seems like this is the root issue for your son.

 

He made friends before PS. He is bright and was curious and into learning about a range of things for learning's sake. He was kind. This all changed when he hit PS?  The source of the problem seems kind of obvious.

 

Like any normal kid, he yearns for a friend in this new environment. The school doesn't sound like a positive environment for making true friends. Everything he's doing that is so contrary to the child you knew (doing poorly in classes, "forgetting" to hand in homework as perhaps some of the more admired kids proudly do, etc.) is likely being done with the goal of making a friend and fitting in to this new environment. He can't see how wrong this new environment is because 1) he's a child, and, and worst of all, 2) someone he loves & trusts, grandma, is telling him this is "normal" and something all kids just have to do. Any pre-teen/teen just wants to be "normal."

 

I'd go at it from the friend angle. I would pour my time and energy into helping him foster ONE good, true friendship. I'm an introvert. It took me years of thinking I had to find groups for my kids to get involved with, but really just one other friend makes all the difference.

 

If there's any one other person with whom he shares some common interest, no matter how small, and with whom he has some interest in interacting, try to nurture that connection and see if it will kindle into a friendship. He just needs ONE to start with.  Is there any other child, maybe from his pre-PS days, with whom he played or shared some interest?   Is he starting catechism classes at church? Is there another boy in the class that he might be able to be friends with?   Is there any other boy with whom there might be the slightest potential for a friendship?  If you could provide an environment in which to nurture the relationship... take the two to a movie? Take the two to some activity they'd both like?  Let him invite the other boy over to play some card/board/strategy game boys this age seem to like?

 

ETA: I'd also take him out of PS. Or can you foresee something there changing that would improve his situation, academically or socially?  If you take him out, you'll probably have issues with him responding to your authority, so if you can make use of a co-op, or a UMS, or tutor, or online class/teacher, it might help.

 

I'd also limit interaction with grandma to only times you are present. She's not only undermined your authority as his parent, she's also cast you as a less than competent adult. ("Pretending to be a teacher"?!?)  Do you have any friends or other family who could watch the kids that afternoon?
 

 

[fairfarmhand]

BTW, I've noticed that socially awkward kids often do better with kids slightly younger than them. So I'd be hunting a friendship to foster with a slightly younger h omeschooled child. To a slightly younger kid, the older kid is cool, just because he's older.

[Renai]

I've been following this thread because your son sounds just like my daughter. She currently attends a performing arts school as a freshman. She has had the tendency to want to please since she was in preschool, and was a primary reason I decided to homeschool her. She was losing herself. In the homeschool groups, she's been able to find friends here and there, but most of them moved. We became more isolated from the groups.

 

She first went to school for a month in 3rd grade. Bullying, the works. She got put in at a charter school in 7th. She still had the same tendencies. These things just did not get better. She stayed the whole year, but I deeply regret keeping her there so long. She had a hard time. I guess there's just something about her that is "different." A pp mentioned "bully magnet." I've always felt she somehow just attracted bullies. I'm not sure how. I've tried to gently tell her to maybe calm down in some areas. I made the mistake of telling her one day that a group of girls she was with was laughing behind her back (I was there). She really thought they were her friends. So, she became bitter. She's in 9th now, and still has many of the same issues. She'd just like one friend she can depend on, and sit with at lunch.  The kicker about the school she is at now, is that she knows a lot of the students there because she's danced with them for years. I thought the experience would be better because of that.

 

I really wish we'd followed our original plan and homeschooled until high school. She may have still had the same problems, but she may have been stronger to deal with them. I've already told her that if her grades don't come up, I'm pulling her out to homeschool high school. Her answer, "I know...will I be able to go to the community college too?"  :blink: She really wants to stay at the school though. There are a lot of opportunities there.

 

All that, and I have no answers for you. I'm mostly commiserating. But, staying in school may not make things better.

[Space station]

BTW, I've noticed that socially awkward kids often do better with kids slightly younger than them. So I'd be hunting a friendship to foster with a slightly younger h omeschooled child. To a slightly younger kid, the older kid is cool, just because he's older.

I agree with this - slightly younger or slightly older - anything but the same age. My dd13 has good friends who are 11 and some who are 15. Other 13 year olds though, no, just no.

[Renai]

I agree with this - slightly younger or slightly older - anything but the same age. My dd13 has good friends who are 11 and some who are 15. Other 13 year olds though, no, just no.

 

I forgot to mention this part. A lot of the ones my dd associates well with are either younger or older than her. The ones that are older still don't sit with her at lunch though. There are some kids coming up into the school next year that she is friends with (a year younger), so we're hoping it will be a better year. (If she doesn't flunk and I homeschool the rest of high school.)

[Sahamamama]

Both Ds and Dd do not want to be homeschooled again. They said they felt like "freaks" when they were homeschooled, and that I need to understand their education is not about me. I should stop trying to pretend to be a teacher. Also, they will never make any friends if we take them out of school. It will basically ruin their lives. Obviously, this was very hurtful to me, and most certainly not ok for them to say in the way it was said. I was just so taken aback.

 

Ouch. That hurts. :grouphug:

 

I don't have any words of wisdom. I don't know what I would do in your situation, but do not let your children be your source of information (regarding the bolded words above). I would take the hurt that those words caused you, and go to God in a hurry. Tell him about that hurt, and ask him to wash over your spirit with comfort and peace and guidance for what to do.

 

Your children may be operating from a position of fear, helplessness, weakness, immaturity, and selfishness (I'm not saying they are, but it's possible that these things are motivating what they've said and how they've treated you). You, however, will want to make a decision based on trust (what is God telling you to do?), power, love, maturity, forgiveness, and a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7). You are the Mom!

 

Along with that, I'm not sure how much weight I would give to their reporting about their school life. Reading between the lines, what do you see that they are not coming out and saying? I would not let their immaturity (at 10 and 12, it's a fact, not a judgment) rule the day. You are not omniscient, so you can't see into the future, but you are more aware of how life works, how people function, and what your goals are for your children. Which path is more likely to get you where you want to end up? HTH.

[Sahamamama]

Wanted to add some info about the 'social' part of this problem to get some input. Ds has always been able to make friends easily with other homeschooled kids or kids in other group/class settings. However, when he's been in more unsupervised, kid-led groups, like the school hallways/cafeteria and even our old neighborhood, he seems to be a bully magnet. I'm not exactly sure why this is. Ds is outgoing and very friendly. He looks like a regular kid---has regular hair, wears regular clothes, etc. Just saying that he doesn't 'stand out' in any physical way. Despite his grades, Ds is very bright. When he speaks, I think is when other kids pick up that he's a little 'different'. He goes very deep into things that interest him and becomes an expert on it (music, space, snakes/reptiles, rocks & minerals, sea creatures, and Minecraft).

 

Before we enrolled him in school, I talked to them about him being placed in their gifted program. They gave him the CogAT. He had to be in the 90th percentile in both the math and language sections. He scored 98th percentile in language, but 87th in math, so they said no. I did appeal this, and the appeals committee still said no. I asked if we got our own evaluation with IQ testing, they said no, they only accept their own CogAT test results. Obviously, the school district is not going to help Ds, even with a fight from me. Another reason I don't see how leaving him in ps is going to be good for him. He's going to keep trying to 'fit in' where he will never fit in, and he's going to fall through the cracks academically.

 

And emotionally. I would pull him home and, in spite of the hurtful things he said about homeschooling, I would try to rise above that and get him on the team. He may have said hurtful things about homeschooling because he has heard and/or been the brunt of hurtful things that were said about homeschooling. You may never know the source of his statements, but start where you are with what you do know, and move on.

 

You know that he's a bully magnet in unsupervised settings. What could be more unsupervised than the vast majority of the PS experience? Along with that, there is likely more pressure in PS to conform, to fit in, rather than to just become yourself and be your "own person." Homeschooling might allow him some more personal space and time for this sort of growth, without the need to hide who he really is from his peers, for fear of being rejected or bullied.

 

As for the school not putting him in G & T because his math score was 87th percentile, that is such a load of doo-doo, it's not even funny. So you've seen what the school plans to do with him, in spite of your appeals, in spite of your offer to retest him -- a whole lot of nuthin'.

[PeterPan]

Bethany, it sounds like you got the shaft from the school.  They could have administered computerized tests, done the EF and behavioral questionaires, etc. etc.  You don't need a neuropsych either, not for ADHD with no LDs.  You can (and I did with my dd), but I'm just saying you don't have to.  Did your ped administer an EF screening tool or just listen to you for a while?  The author of one of the major EF tools is near here, so it seems like every practitioner I go to uses it, mercy.  I've had the ped, eye doc, OT, speech therapist, psychs, etc. all administer this same tool!  

 

Anyways, a plain psych eval can be had for $850 in our area.  If you need a neuropsych, you'll double or triple that.  But just for what you're talking about, a plain old normal psych with a good reputation would do.  Try looking on the Hoagies' list.  He may be very gifted and his strengths are masking somewhat his weaknesses.  That's why you get these discrepancies of high test scores but struggles.  With the ps, it's almost like you have to have the private evals so you know the labels before you can go into the ps and have them evaluate to label it, lol.

 

 

[HSmomof2]

Taking a couple days to talk with dh and dc and calm down (me😊), I think we have a tentative plan for next year. I truly appreciate everyone's input and advice.....it helps to get input from different views and ideas......

 

We asked dc what it was about homeschooling that he didn't like. He said mostly he wanted to do more 'interactive' work and projects like science and art. I admit I let those things go a little too much just trying to get the basics done. I said this was definitely something we could do. I also stressed to him that I understand he wants to have social activities and opportunities to make friends. Public school has not worked well for him making friends. Ds's eyes filled with tears and he said he really would be glad not to have to go back to school next year. He told us about some other incidents that have gone on this year that are just very sad. He was also quite shaken up that they had a 45-minute lockdown last week because there was a report of a student with a weapon. I guess no one was found, but he was scared sitting in the dark in the corner of his math class. (The school did not report this to parents, I guess because nothing was found, which makes me mad.)

 

Both dc looked over the class list for the co-op I'm considering. There were classes both really we're excited about. This co-op is considerably larger than the one we went to before, and there are some kids there (nice kids 😊) that we've known from other homeschool activities. Both dc thought the idea of dh being home to work with them one day/week sounded pretty good.

 

So, the plan this week is for dh, Ds and me to visit the Catholic school on Monday morning, then we'll visit and tour the co-op in the afternoon. I haven't dealt with my mother yet and her comments but will do that this week as well.

[HSmomof2]

Update in original post.

[OneStepAtATime]

The update sounds good OP! I wish you and yours the very best.

[Mom22ns]

What a wonderful update! I'm so glad you found a coop that looks like it will meet your needs and that your children are back on board with the idea of homeschooling. I also think it is great that you were able to have the conversation with your mom and make sure she won't undermine what you are doing.

 

Congratulations on what looks to be the start of good things for your family!

:party:

[Renai]

Great update! Reflecting on past successes and failures is something we should always be doing to improve. Good luck!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

:) :grouphug:

[Reefgazer]

Good update!  Glad to see you and your kids are coming to a mutually agreeable resolution!

[TarynB]

So glad about your updated news. It's nice to see that there are options available and you've all worked together to find a solution. You're a good mom.  :grouphug:

[pmaria80]

I was following your story and am happy to hear such a great update! I hope you all have a wonderful year!

[Ewe Mama]

Your plan sounds great! I'm so happy both children on on board and have renewed interest and excitement.

 

:grouphug:

[yvonne]

What wonderful news!  It sounds like your whole family has a plan that you all can really look forward to for the fall! It even sounds like your mother may regret the damage she caused inadvertently. She may come around to supporting home schooling for her grandchildren!

 

Wonderful all the way around!