Ignore this thread!

[Ellie]

I did one term paper my junior year, and one term paper my senior year. The end.

[Junie]

 

Need my peeps here...

 

A mom with a kid in my current English class called me to say that she didn't think her boys could take my class next year because they cannot write six 750 word essays using MLA citation (with prompt provided) over works such as Huckberry Finn and The Old Man and the Sea.  Does this seem excessive?  I will start the year with a four week writing boot camp based on The Elegant Essay, and then launch into the American literature portion (using the EIL curriculum by Janice Campbell but only covering six works instead of nine).  We will finish with a Shakespeare play the last four weeks with discussion only.  

 

A local place that offers classes for homeschoolers has a lady who is very knowledgeable but is doing a two credit history and lit course requiring 2-4 papers per semester plus a family tree research project (???) which are informal response papers. (i.e. What do you think of such and such?)  This seems REALLY light for a two credit high school course.  I know this lady and know that she tends to tell personal stories and waste a lot of class time and also does not always give feedback on papers. 

 

My class requires six 750 word essays which are light research papers in that an author bio and other resources related to putting the works in a historical context should be used to write the paper.  

 

Thoughts?  I don't really know what is typical of a 10th-ish grade English course.

 

 

I have to think about this for a little bit.  I'll try to come back to it before I go to bed.

[ikslo]

I wrote a lot of papers in high school. A lot.

 

I even had to write a long paper in German my senior year. I don't remember how long that one was. Thankfully I did not have to do citations for it.

[Junie]

It's Jean's fault I am in a bad mood.

 

Okay, not really. My bad mood is due to co-workers who don't understand that they can't just change the numbering system of their controlled documents without consulting the people who control the controlled docs. (Moi)

 

And the co-workers who didn't think it was important to mention to anyone when equipment was stolen -NINE MONTHS AGO.

 

People.

 

I had a temp job one summer at which I was an assistant to the person who controlled the documents.   :svengo:

 

We had an ISO 9000 ? audit-thing near the end of the summer.  We didn't have the proper documentation in all of the places that were required.  They had the little college girl (Moi) running around with binders behind the auditor, hoping he wouldn't notice that he had just looked at this exact same binder in another location.   :ohmy:

 

At least MY job wasn't on the line.

[Slache]

Slache is quality.

I just got this. It took me hours. You guys should stop picking on me. I'm pregnant. And fat. It's not nice.

[JoJosMom]

 

Need my peeps here...

 

A mom with a kid in my current English class called me to say that she didn't think her boys could take my class next year because they cannot write six 750 word essays using MLA citation (with prompt provided) over works such as Huckberry Finn and The Old Man and the Sea.  Does this seem excessive?  I will start the year with a four week writing boot camp based on The Elegant Essay, and then launch into the American literature portion (using the EIL curriculum by Janice Campbell but only covering six works instead of nine).  We will finish with a Shakespeare play the last four weeks with discussion only.  

 

A local place that offers classes for homeschoolers has a lady who is very knowledgeable but is doing a two credit history and lit course requiring 2-4 papers per semester plus a family tree research project (???) which are informal response papers. (i.e. What do you think of such and such?)  This seems REALLY light for a two credit high school course.  I know this lady and know that she tends to tell personal stories and waste a lot of class time and also does not always give feedback on papers. 

 

My class requires six 750 word essays which are light research papers in that an author bio and other resources related to putting the works in a historical context should be used to write the paper.  

 

Thoughts?  I don't really know what is typical of a 10th-ish grade English course.

 

 

This is a one-year course, yes?  So 3 papers per semester?  That does not seem excessive to me, but I would also be okay with dropping it to 2 per semester with additional less formal assignments.

 

 

[JoJosMom]

You should throw in some bacon and hot dogs, too. It's a thing. j/k

 

That sounds fabulous.  Tells you what a plebe I am, eh?

[Junie]

I just cooked up a storm.

 

I made chicken cacciatore with rice for tonight's dinner.

 

I also made meatballs (prepackaged), hamburgers, and some Italian sausage.

 

I also cut up chicken to marinate -- one bag for lemon-garlic chicken, the other for chicken fajitas.

 

Baseball practice ending at 5:30 has made meals difficult.  Maybe if most of the prep work is done ahead of time we'll do better.

[JoJosMom]

Going to Costco when you are on the verge of slipping into an allergy induced coma is never a good thing. I spent a whole lot of $$ and forgot half the stuff on my list. An 18-pack of macaroni and cheese. Really?

 

Costco is demonic.  It is not your fault.

[JoJosMom]

I just got this. It took me hours. You guys should stop picking on me. I'm pregnant. And fat. It's not nice.

 

Wait.  That was a funny?  I just thought Miss Susan was pointing out the obvious.

 

:001_smile:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dd is cooking up a storm.  She's taking the prep for her half marathon very seriously and is carb loading and water loading. 

[KrissiK]

Costco is demonic. It is not your fault.

You are not kidding. The place is full of idiots. I hate Costco!

[KrissiK]

Tex, your class sounds great. Yes, it's waaaay more work than I ever did in 10th grade, to I also feel like I got a bad education! So, I don't know what to say!

[texasmama]

I appreciate the feedback on my English class.  Ironically, I dropped three of the nine works (and papers).  I can make some of them less formal or less lengthy.  The mom who called me is a friend and I like her, but she tends to do too much for her kids.  She would have three kids in my class next year - a 10th grader and 9th grade twins.  She thinks it would be too much "to draw it out of them".  I have encouraged her for a long time to outsource more or to let them tackle these assignments with only marginal end of paper editing help.  She is making herself crazy and knows it.  It is just hard for her to let go.

 

Please get back to me when you have time, Junie, since I know this is in your wheelhouse.  Because I have no actual training as an English teacher, I don't know what is typical.  I have a couple of friends with kids in public school I could ask for some sort of reference.  

 

I think all of the kids in my little class this year would be capable of doing these assignments, but it would be a step up from the requirements this year.  This year was more "death by chicken pecking" and being "nickel and dimed".  There was more homework but it was not as long.  This year is a lot of reading, some light research, and then writing papers.

 

 

[ikslo]

I had a temp job one summer at which I was an assistant to the person who controlled the documents. :svengo:

 

We had an ISO 9000 ? audit-thing near the end of the summer. We didn't have the proper documentation in all of the places that were required. They had the little college girl (Moi) running around with binders behind the auditor, hoping he wouldn't notice that he had just looked at this exact same binder in another location. :ohmy:

 

At least MY job wasn't on the line.

Ours is ISO as well. ISO 17020, 17025, and 17065. And it's the 17020 people who think they are special snowflakes. It is days like today I wish I was a SAHM. Then DH said DS couldn't figure out his math, so he told him he didn't have to do it. I asked DS what he couldn't figure out, he said nothing. He just didn't try because it is usually hard. ???? My day has just been frustrating all around.

[Susan in TN]

I wrote a lot of papers in high school. A lot.

 

I even had to write a long paper in German my senior year. I don't remember how long that one was. Thankfully I did not have to do citations for it.

Me too. My high school had a policy that every single class had to assign at least one major term paper. Math might not have been included in that. I don't remember writing any math-related papers. But we did them for English/lit. classes (of course), German, science, history, government, sociology, etc. Not all super long, but generally between 5 and 20 pages.

 

I was surprised when I got to college that most kids had not written at least one 20-page paper.

[Junie]

Ours is ISO as well. ISO 17020, 17025, and 17065. And it's the 17020 people who think they are special snowflakes. It is days like today I wish I was a SAHM. Then DH said DS couldn't figure out his math, so he told him he didn't have to do it. I asked DS what he couldn't figure out, he said nothing. He just didn't try because it is usually hard. ???? My day has just been frustrating all around.

 

Sorry that your day was frustrating.  And pardon me for laughing about the math.  It sounds like something some of my kids would pull.

[texasmama]

Tenth grade is a blur to me.  I worked a lot at a Mexican restaurant, made out with John H, et al,, and took up drinking.  Thus, the need to poll my ITT peeps. :leaving:

[ikslo]

Sorry that your day was frustrating. And pardon me for laughing about the math. It sounds like something some of my kids would pull.

I would have laughed too if it weren't for the fact that I had to interact with idiots just prior to hearing DS explain what he actually said to DH, and how it wasn't HIS fault that Dad misunderstood. No, dear, of course not. And yes, I am sure Dad does need to get his hearing check by someone other than his employer. I'm sure you played no part in his misunderstanding. Yeah, right.

Edited March 18, 2016 by ikslo

[hornblower]

 

 

 

Thoughts?  I don't really know what is typical of a 10th-ish grade English course.

 

That is way more than we would expect in a high school course here & I think it's also way more than what is in the Lit courses which language keeners (like me!) take in addition to the standard mandatory English courses. 

 

Gr 10 here usually has a practice 5 para essay, one topical essay (about 3 pages) on a novel, plus some short answer / multiple choice quizzes etc. 

The Gr 11 syllabus has two essays and a short story to write. 

Gr 12 has 3 essays. 

 

I guess we're slackers in Canada :)   I'd feel bad about all this but Canada beats you guys on PISA rankings :P 

 

 

college dd's just wrapping up a one semester first year Engl course (reading fiction; her coursepack is horror/gothic) 

 

6 novels + 3 shorter length pieces 

assignments are: 

two close reading/analysis of a passage - a paragraph long 

one 4-5 page essay one one book

one 5-6 page essay on a theme & discussing 2+ of the books 

 

There's a final exam & additional marks come from class participation & a formal proposal for the longer essay 

 

I suspect though that the reason we don't do tons of essays is that they're a %^&*(*&%$ to mark.  They're time consuming and there's always an element of judgement so you get complaints and appeals etc. 

 

 

[Openhearted]

Tenth grade is a blur to me. I worked a lot at a Mexican restaurant, made out with John H, et al,, and took up drinking. Thus, the need to poll my ITT peeps. :leaving:

This is in regards to your 10th grade English class and not the above quote, but I was too lazy to go back a page.:lol:

 

Dd16 is in English 10 honors, and I think she has to do two MLA papers, 1 each semester. But also there is a book list (I will try to link it) of quotes used on the SAT in which they are given a quote each week and have to write a page about such quote. They are also required to read a book off the list each quarter and do a report of some kind. They done Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet the first semester in class.

http://mseffie.com/AP/APtitles.html This is the list.

 

I'm not certain about the research papers, but I could ask for more detail if you need me too.:)

 

Eta: not SAT but AP Literature exams.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Openhearted

[hornblower]

dd made us an amazing tofu scramble 

[ikslo]

"Mom, I changed my mind. I think I do want to do that pluck dissection today."

 

Yay.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I didn't really like what dd14 made for dinner tonight.  But I ate it anyway because she made enough for an army.  It was a shrimp alfredo pasta bake.  It was ok.   Not horrible but not my favorite. 

[texasmama]

I suspect though that the reason we don't do tons of essays is that they're a %^&*(*&%$ to mark.  They're time consuming and there's always an element of judgement so you get complaints and appeals etc. 

This.  Completely this.  

 

I don't assign grades to students, even on single papers, much less an overall semester grade, so I don't have to worry about that.  I give significant feedback on content and correct any punctuation, sentence structure, grammar issues, etc. Each student is judged by his/her on "best effort" in my mind because I know what each is capable of.  I kind of like this because it doesn't let the top of the class slide nor the bottom of the class become discouraged by poor grades.

[Another Lynn]

Tex,

I am not a lit person, but I think your English plan is fine.  Six essays is a good number.  Whether they all need MLA documentation or not depends on what the topic is.  If the topic is author biography or historical context, then yes, they need MLA.  If they are straight up literary analysis papers, than they probably only need to use MLA to cite the novel or play they are writing about. 

 

My current 14yo who is either an 8th grader or a 9th grader has been doing "9th grade coursework" in Challenge 1.  They have done American Literature this year - reading 17 works, plus several short stories, essays and poems, and writing 9 essays (using Lost Tools of Writing), taking about 3 weeks per essay.  IIRC, there is no MLA with the Lost Tools of Writing essays. 

 

I don't remember doing 20 page papers in highschool, but I do know nothing I saw in college really intimidated me compared to the work I did in highschool, but I digress. 

 

[texasmama]

This is in regards to your 10th grade English class and not the above quote, but I was too lazy to go back a page. :lol:

 

Dd16 is in English 10 honors, and I think she has to do two MLA papers, 1 each semester. But also there is a book list (I will try to link it) of quotes used on the SAT in which they are given a quote each week and have to write a page about such quote. They are also required to read a book off the list each quarter and do a report of some kind. They done Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet the first semester in class.

http://mseffie.com/AP/APtitles.html This is the list.

 

I'm not certain about the research papers, but I could ask for more detail if you need me too. :)

 

Eta: not SAT but AP Literature exams.

This sounds like a lot to me, to cover two Shakespeare plays in one semester, plus the rest of that, though it is honors.  

 

I think people are scared off by the MLA citation papers.  The students are used to using quotations from the text, as they were required to do that all year this year.  This might require the citation from the work, plus one or two others.  There are citation generators online which will do this work for you so you don't have to worry about getting the citations right.  One could be from an online author bio, and another might be from a work which puts the novel into historical context.  All of these sources are listed in the text, and most of them are accessible online.  So the students don't actually have to go to a library and try to figure it out from scratch.

[Renai]

:grouphug: hornblower

 

I learned the bowl trick the hard way, as well. Ds20 over-indulged on chocolate covered peanuts one Christmas when he was 7. We had just went to bed. He didn't make it to the bathroom. It was on carpet. Now, I always remember the bowl. I keep a gallon ice cream bucket container just for that purpose.

 

I don't do bowls. I do trash cans.

[Junie]

Texasmama,  Are the students doing any other assignments (tests, oral reports, or anything else)?  Or are the 6 novels with essays all they will be doing?

[Renai]

This sounds like a lot to me, to cover two Shakespeare plays in one semester, plus the rest of that, though it is honors.  

 

I think people are scared off by the MLA citation papers.  The students are used to using quotations from the text, as they were required to do that all year this year.  This might require the citation from the work, plus one or two others.  There are citation generators online which will do this work for you so you don't have to worry about getting the citations right.  One could be from an online author bio, and another might be from a work which puts the novel into historical context.  All of these sources are listed in the text, and most of them are accessible online.  So the students don't actually have to go to a library and try to figure it out from scratch.

 

I used citationmachine.net a lot this past year.

[texasmama]

Texasmama, Are the students doing any other assignments (tests, oral reports, or anything else)? Or are the 6 novels with essays all they will be doing?

During the four week boot camp at the beginning of the class, there will be one short homework page per week. Otherwise, no. The six papers are all that is required. Edited March 19, 2016 by texasmama

[Renai]

Since we're giving feedback on classes, how does this sound for a semester of an advanced Spanish class? It is a 14 week semester.

Spanish journal with at least two entries a week. One entry can be a reader response to the literature. The journal will be collected four times during the semester. Written assignments in the form of the journal, a short paper, and an oral presentation will be required to earn 0.5 high school credit in Spanish Literature. 

[texasmama]

I don't do bowls. I do trash cans.

Me, too.

[texasmama]

Since we're giving feedback on classes, how does this sound for a semester of an advanced Spanish class? It is a 14 week semester.

Spanish journal with at least two entries a week. One entry can be a reader response to the literature. The journal will be collected four times during the semester. Written assignments in the form of the journal, a short paper, and an oral presentation will be required to earn 0.5 high school credit in Spanish Literature.

That sounds good to me.

[Junie]

During the four week boot camp at the beginning of the class, there will be one short homework page per week. Otherwise, no. The six papers are all that is required.

 

If this is the only writing requirement, I don't think that 6 papers is too much.  You could cut it down to 4 and give a test each semester on one of the works.

 

With the papers, what I would suggest is that you guide your students toward a certain kind of research.  Such as one paper would be a biography report, one could be literary criticism, one could talk about symbolism or some other literary element.

 

I would also consider including some poetry or short stories to break up the longer works.  Is this American Lit?  I remember you narrowing down works a week or so ago, but I don't remember your final list.

[Critterfixer]

Checking in after a long day at work. It does feel good to know I'm not alone in bad dreams. I've had them all week, and my attempt to avoid them last night by taking a hefty dose of antihistamines backfired and I had the worst one all week. I'm now nervous about going to sleep. Terrified I'm going to get stuck in another nightmare and be unable to get out of it. But I have to go to sleep. I have work tomorrow. 

I did have a good dinner, plan to read to the boys and take a different kind of sleep medication. I was so tired and miserable today. Close to tears all afternoon for no reason at all other than exhaustion, I think. 

Wah, poor me.

Could be worse.

But I hope it isn't.

[Tsuga]

Okay y'all. You know how I said, screw this public sector stuff, I'm going to do what is right for MY FAMILY and MY SELF, I have spent 15 years serving the poor of this world and it's time to take care of stuff? So imma apply for some jobs at companies I can bike too (it helps that I live in an area where that is possible, of course) and imma MAKE. THIS. HAPPEN. And i'm going for mid-high income or bust? Because college and a house and stuff and it's not wrong to make money?

 

Well, I sent my CV off and I have a preliminary interview on Tuesday.

 

If I get the job and it pays what I think, I will be able to give back to my non-profit by being on the board... so that's good.

 

@KrissiK, you have Mac and Cheese for the apocalypse. Babysitter food, woot woot.

 

@Texasmama:

 

 

 

A mom with a kid in my current English class called me to say that she didn't think her boys could take my class next year because they cannot write six 750 word essays using MLA citation (with prompt provided) over works such as Huckberry Finn and The Old Man and the Sea.  Does this seem excessive?  I will start the year with a four week writing boot camp based on The Elegant Essay, and then launch into the American literature portion (using the EIL curriculum by Janice Campbell but only covering six works instead of nine).  We will finish with a Shakespeare play the last four weeks with discussion only.  

 

I know someone who actually teaches 10th grade English at one of the top public all-inclusive (i.e. not magnet, not charter, 100% geographic admission including special ed) schools in the country. Like 10th in the state, and I don't have national comparisons because our state is one of the only that is hanging by a thread to maintain geographic enrollment, so we would be comparing apples to oranges, but anyway, it's a good school. But not a special gifted school. 

 

I would say that your choice of books sounds reasonable. MLA is reasonable. 750 words is reasonable. She teaches honors English. That sounds very, very much like what she does. I've read her students' papers. They can be formulaic at times, but are well-written, contain a minimum of grammar errors, and usually contain logical (if not highly original) thought. They read about eight books.

 

So it depends. I think your expectations are reasonable for college-prep students, yes.

 

I would tell the parent that this is the year they really start to prepare for college and start to write and that you'll provide a lot of support, but they need to practice, because senior year, it's going to be 2,000 words at least once a quarter.

[Jean in Newcastle]

((Critter))

[Openhearted]

:grouphug: critter

 

I will do a no bad dreams at your house dance.

 

Sorry to hear this, but at least maybe it wasn't the ice cream or the toppings.;)

[Tsuga]

Checking in after a long day at work. It does feel good to know I'm not alone in bad dreams. I've had them all week, and my attempt to avoid them last night by taking a hefty dose of antihistamines backfired and I had the worst one all week. I'm now nervous about going to sleep. Terrified I'm going to get stuck in another nightmare and be unable to get out of it. But I have to go to sleep. I have work tomorrow. 

I did have a good dinner, plan to read to the boys and take a different kind of sleep medication. I was so tired and miserable today. Close to tears all afternoon for no reason at all other than exhaustion, I think. 

Wah, poor me.

Could be worse.

But I hope it isn't.

 

:(

 

Sorry to hear that. This time of year is difficult with the time change.

[Junie]

Checking in after a long day at work. It does feel good to know I'm not alone in bad dreams. I've had them all week, and my attempt to avoid them last night by taking a hefty dose of antihistamines backfired and I had the worst one all week. I'm now nervous about going to sleep. Terrified I'm going to get stuck in another nightmare and be unable to get out of it. But I have to go to sleep. I have work tomorrow. 

I did have a good dinner, plan to read to the boys and take a different kind of sleep medication. I was so tired and miserable today. Close to tears all afternoon for no reason at all other than exhaustion, I think. 

Wah, poor me.

Could be worse.

But I hope it isn't.

 

:grouphug:

[Junie]

Since we're giving feedback on classes, how does this sound for a semester of an advanced Spanish class? It is a 14 week semester.

Spanish journal with at least two entries a week. One entry can be a reader response to the literature. The journal will be collected four times during the semester. Written assignments in the form of the journal, a short paper, and an oral presentation will be required to earn 0.5 high school credit in Spanish Literature. 

 

This sounds like a great class!!

[Critterfixer]

 

Sorry to hear this, but at least maybe it wasn't the ice cream or the toppings. ;) 

 

 

No, not ice cream. Glad for that.

Yes, the time change is terrifically hard for me. I really won't be happy again until late fall. Sad to say, but very true. I never really adjust. But I can usually come to some sort of arrangement that works, providing I can get a decent night's sleep. Glad I've got spring break next week. Maybe I can slip some morning naps in there and see if that helps a little bit.

[Susan in TN]

I'm sorry, Critter! Dd9 has complained of not sleeping and bad/weird dreams and then I realized I have been giving her an antihistamine before bed for allergies. We are skipping it tonight to see if she sleeps better, even though she has a headache and feels bad.

[Junie]

((((Susan's dd9))))

[texasmama]

(((Critter)))

[Critterfixer]

Here is hoping all nightmare-prone folks get a decent sleep tonight!

 

ETA: It's a sweet dreams to all and to all a good night Booyah! :hurray: And on that note, I shall head there.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Critterfixer

[texasmama]

I really appreciate the English feedback, ITT friends. The specific info and suggestions are ones I can incorporate into the class. I can always change the requirements a bit.

Edited May 24, 2016 by texasmama

[ikslo]

Checking in after a long day at work. It does feel good to know I'm not alone in bad dreams. I've had them all week, and my attempt to avoid them last night by taking a hefty dose of antihistamines backfired and I had the worst one all week. I'm now nervous about going to sleep. Terrified I'm going to get stuck in another nightmare and be unable to get out of it. But I have to go to sleep. I have work tomorrow.

I did have a good dinner, plan to read to the boys and take a different kind of sleep medication. I was so tired and miserable today. Close to tears all afternoon for no reason at all other than exhaustion, I think.

Wah, poor me.

Could be worse.

But I hope it isn't.

:grouphug:

[ikslo]

Yay, Tsuga! Good luck with the interview.