ILiveInFlipFlops Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Please don't quote me, because I will probably delete later, just in case. Thanks. Let me start by saying I don't believe DD is seriously depressed, but I'm definitely concerned and want to keep my eye on this. She's 12 (a socially and emotionally mature 12), and lately she has transitioned into the hoodie-wearing, hiding-in-her-room phase of early adolescence. I remember this phase, and it was awful, so I've tried to be very accommodating. I allow the hoodies as long as they're clean, I let her spend the time in her room but I do ask her to come out for some family time periodically, I don't tease or cajole or harass about things (especially silly things--I do get annoyed when the garbage is overflowing and the gerbil cage stinks, though!), I'm working my tail off to make sure that she has time with friends, that schoolwork isn't too overwhelming, etc. I know a lot of it is normal and expected, and I'm hoping we can weather it with kindness and patience. However, last night she said something that got my attention, and I'm not sure how far to take my response. Long story short, one of us referred to one of her gerbils as "flat, and slow, and tired," and she said, "That's how I feel every day." I was surprised, and I said, "You feel flat and slow and tired every day?" And she said yes, most days. Although I make sure she knows she can talk to me about anything, anytime, and I make sure to ask about certain things, she very rarely talks to me anymore about how she's feeling unless something comes to a near-crisis point (e.g., a friend dynamics issue that came up recently), so I'm very surprised to hear her say this, but also not surprised, KWIM? And again, I guess I remember feeling the same way around that age, almost like a turtle--I could hurry along when I needed to, but mostly it felt better and safer to keep my head in my shell and just stay kind of hidden from the world around me. I started a P/T job when I was 13, and when that happened I finally found my "place." But as a homeschooling family, it's harder to help her find that "place." She's been talking about going to school next year, but I'm thinking that might be a really bad experiment. My first instinct was to think that we both need to start getting some exercise. She and I are both indoorsy, introverted people, and I think she'd like (eventually!) spending some time one-on-one with me creating some endorphins. Beyond that, how should I approach this? Is this really normal for these first, awful adolescent years, and we just need to wait it out? Do I need to worry about a deeper depression developing here? She's not mean or snappy, she's just turned inward, which actually worries me a little bit more (though again, I remember doing the same thing). If you had a kid who went through this, how did you get her through it with a minimum of melancholy? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Exercise is good. Does she have much for activities outside the home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yes, she sees her friends for several hours at a time, three days a week, every week, and I do try to set up movie trips or sleepovers or what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think you're on the right track - exercise would probably help a lot. Also, is she getting enough sleep and adequate nutrition? Her need for longer periods of sleep is increasing as she nears her teens. Teens need 9-10 hours of sleep each night. Are electronics disturbing her sleep? It's recommended that tv, computer, phone & tablet usage end at least one hour before bedtime (the light is stimulating). Over the course of roughly a week, does she eat enough protein and have a variety of vegetables? This is tough with kids her age. Has her iron been checked? Low iron can cause tiredness & it might be worth looking into, especially if her cycles aren't regular yet. Also - let her know that you've noticed that she's not energetic & if any changes to her routine need to be made to increase exercise or improve nutrition, you can work on them together. She will also appreciate the fact that you noticed, even if she doesn't act like she does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in SC Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Is she really introverted? I've met so many moms that are introverted that really want to pretend their children are as well, but they're not. Have you asked her what would help her stop feeling like that? Does a Starbucks trip a couple of mornings a week cheer her? Would an outside class, or extracurricular class help? I wanted to ask you about the hoodie comment. What do you mean that you allow them, as long as they're clean? Are they different than any other piece of clothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I echo the recommendations for exercise, and if you have rock climbing (indoor or outdoor) near you, maybe try that. It's fun and setting and then achieving goals is very empowering (''I can haul myself up that wall!'') It was my favorite form of exercise as a teen. Taking careful stock of her nutrition is a great idea, especially protein. Finally, if nothing else works, you might try chasteberry extract to see if her hormones are giving her issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Is she really introverted? I've met so many moms that are introverted that really want to pretend their children are as well, but they're not. Have you asked her what would help her stop feeling like that? Does a Starbucks trip a couple of mornings a week cheer her? Would an outside class, or extracurricular class help? I wanted to ask you about the hoodie comment. What do you mean that you allow them, as long as they're clean? Are they different than any other piece of clothing? No, she really is. I wish I could pretend my youngest was introverted too!!! Oldest DD enjoys time with her friends and wants it, but needs lots of recuperating time and will turn down friend time if she's had too busy a week or is mentally overloaded. I meant I allow them because she wears two particular baggy, oversized, worn hoodies over everything. She'll dress in regular, event-appropriate clothes and then cover them with these hoodies. It drives DH insane, but he's also never been a young, self-conscious girl, so I've overruled him with a few exceptions (based on the event). I will be honest that it bugs me that I just spent money and time buying her nice, stylish clothes that she wanted and that I have to baby through the laundry, and when she comes out wearing them, they're covered with this zip-up hoodie :glare: We just got them the other day, and she's worn the hoodie over them every time since then. But I haven't said a word, I swear! I've asked her a little bit, but she just tells me she's tired. She already has several extra-curriculars, all with her good friends. I can't add anymore--schoolwork is barely getting done as it is. She doesn't want to take any classes or learn anything new. Her response to everything is "Meh" or "Hm, maybe." She has always been my unmotivated, noncommittal kid. When she was younger, it manifested as being willing to cheerfully go along with anything. Now it seems to be manifesting as a lack of desire to participate it much of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Following Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think you're on the right track - exercise would probably help a lot. Also, is she getting enough sleep and adequate nutrition? Her need for longer periods of sleep is increasing as she nears her teens. Teens need 9-10 hours of sleep each night. Are electronics disturbing her sleep? It's recommended that tv, computer, phone & tablet usage end at least one hour before bedtime (the light is stimulating). Over the course of roughly a week, does she eat enough protein and have a variety of vegetables? This is tough with kids her age. Has her iron been checked? Low iron can cause tiredness & it might be worth looking into, especially if her cycles aren't regular yet. Also - let her know that you've noticed that she's not energetic & if any changes to her routine need to be made to increase exercise or improve nutrition, you can work on them together. She will also appreciate the fact that you noticed, even if she doesn't act like she does! Thanks, this is good advice. She does take a multi and omega supplement every day, but I hadn't thought about the iron. She does gets lots of protein and we do OK (though not great) on veggies--lots of mixed greens and tomatoes and broccoli. I've been cracking down on when she stop her screen usage at night, but she does use her laptop for listening to music, so she keeps opening to change songs, playlists, etc. I'll have a talk with her about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Probably most of it is puberty. However, having said that, I remember becoming the same way when I started to get teased and bullied by people who I thought were my friends. I became very reclusive and acted the same way as your DD. I'm not saying this to alarm you, because I could be very wrong, but it is something to think about. Maybe some gentle probing would reveal a hint or two. Another thing is that during this time, girls especially, start worrying about their looks more and if they're pretty enough, good enough, and/or fit in with the "in" crowd. My Dd is going through all of this right now as well (she's 12). We are in a fairly remote area, and she doesn't have a lot of friends because of that. DH and I have been working hard to rectify this by cultivating relationships through her extra-curricula classes. She's actually going ice skating next weekend with a very nice girl she's really been wanting to befriend! Thankfully, our Dd comes to us whenever (and I do mean all..the..time) if something is bothering her. She's been having mood swings, feelings of inadequacy, and confusion about social issues that pop up every now and then. (She attends Band/Flute classes at the local HS). Since she's always so open with us about her feelings, it's easier for us to address these feelings as they happen. For you, having a more private DD, it's going to be more difficult. Maybe you can take her out to lunch, just the two of you, and reassure her that you understand some of what she's going through. Share some of your experiences with her (I'm sure you've probably done this, but it doesn't her to restate it). Reinforce that you are always there for her and will not judge. One of the big things I did with my eldest DD, and also plan to do with youngest, is that every summer, beginning in their 13th year, we go on a Mother/DD weekend trip. We stay in a hotel, preferably with a pool, go shopping and out to eat. Eldest Dd, who is now 24, still refers to those trips and how important they were to her. When I took eldest DD, we lived in VT and her favorite place to go was Burlington so we could go to the mall, eat at the Outback, and spend all evening at Barnes and Noble. We would sit there, have a snack and read books for hours. Afterwards we would go back to the hotel and stay up late talking or reading the books we purchased. Now that youngest is 12, she is already excited and talking about where she wants to go for her fist Mother/DD trip. Even though our options are much more limited where we live now, I can't wait either. The one-on-one time really provides an opportunity for deep discussions and reconnecting, or just being giggly girls together - you know...bonding time. Maybe you could suggest/plan such a weekend in the next few weeks. Discuss and plan it with her if you think it's a possibility. Lastly, this is a very tough time for all of you, not just DD. It hurts to see our kids hurt, but it sounds like you're doing a great job of being vigilant, yet giving DD the appropriate space to figure out who she is. Just stay vigilant and be there for her when she needs you. That's all any of us can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think you're smart to be proactive about it. Adding some exercise and maybe having her help you cook are good things whether she's on the road to being depressed or not. Doing those things together might open the door to more communication...and even if it doesn't, she'll be more active and around you more. About the hoodies- I had to limit what I wanted to battle my girls over and I decided not to care about clothing unless it wasn't reasonably modest or age appropriate. Even dirty, wrinkled, or out of season clothes got a pass because I knew it was a phase. 12 is a tough age. She's probably going to have a few rough years but so will you. It's as hard to be the parent as it is to be the kid. I would rather redo the Terrible Twos over and over than go through the teen years again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Saddlemomma and Annie G, thank you both for all the good advice. I'll keep my eyes open and try to remember that it's most likely temporary. I don't remember my own tween/teen years being so bad, but I do remember a few things (like wearing the same outfit to school almost every day because it was the only thing I felt normal in, ugh). They really ARE such hard years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 My just-12 ds responds really well also to reminders/discussion about what is happening in his brain and body right now. This morning a short reminder about remembering to take down the laundry hamper turned into a discussion, a helpful one, about adolescence and the ways that brain re-structuring and hormones and age- and stage-appropriate desire for increased independence can all combine to make one feel scrambled or forgetful or overwhelmed or frustrated or discombobulated or (fill-in-the-blank). Right now his brain is in childhood and adolescence, and even some mature responsible adult thinking is going on in there. That's a lot! He responded really well to reminders about this being a part of his development, not a forever thing, and that the outcome of being patient with himself and his feelings, and working through this time together in a healthy way (whatever that looks like for him) is that he grows into a responsible independent young person who does feel comfortable in his own skin. For this child, in particular, I think there is quite a bit of mourning childhood, too. He likes being a kid. He doesn't like new or different. Heck, leaving the house is difficult some days; leaving childhood??? Eek. I reminded him that my job is to help, so I need to let him be a kid when it's appropriate and to push him to grow up where he needs it, and I need his feedback about how to do that best. With my older children, we had similar discussions. Often they're doing a lot of listening at 12ish because they still haven't formed ways to express all of the overwhelming new stuff. My 14 y.o. is just now starting to recognize and express things like, "I feel ____ right now, and I think I need ____." (Like, poor kid, the time he started crying for no discernible reason in the grocery store parking lot, then laughing because he was crying, then laughing and crying at the same time. "I don't know why I'm crying. I just feel overwhelmed right now. This is so funny. I hate hormones!" Poor sweet.) I try to take the talking in small (5ish minutes, 10 if we're in the car) chunks, remind them that forming positive mental habits is really important, and do checks for...not really understanding, but to ensure I'm not overwhelming them with too much talking. I load it with lots of positives about the gradual transition to the teens/young adulthood and all of the amazing things their lives have in store for them. Usually they seem to feel relieved by the reminder that their brains and bodies are taking them for a roller coaster ride, but that it's not permanent and the "destination" is pretty darn cool. :) Tough age. Hugs, momma, you'll both get through this. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Most likely it is hormones/puberty/age, etc. I would get a physical done though that checks blood work. Some girls become hypothyroid around puberty (per our endo) but many doctors don't check TSH, etc. at this age. Anemia, B vitamins, Vit,D, etc. are all other good ones to check. It is quick and easy and they can check for a lot of things with one blood test. If any of these are off, they could be causing the depression symptoms. With the hoodies---is she self conscious about her development or lack of it? Does she have comfortable, well fitting bras? Has she ever read The Care and Keeping of You and/or other books on puberty and the changes to expect? If you can take her alone places with you to run errands, stop and get a shake or coffee drink or special treat she might open up a bit more, or while walking, etc. Many teens open up when they aren't face to face talking. I hear about lots of different things when we are out horseback riding. Are you in an area with lots of gray, cloudy days lately? If so, having her work in front of a special light for SAD might be helpful as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeteranMom Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I'd wonder if she's getting enough vitamin D. I'd look into exercise and nutrition first. Do you have access to a pool? Does she like swimming? How about getting an exercise machine of some sort and encouraging all of your kids to use it for a certain amount of time daily? My dd is 13. She has a lot of ups and downs emotionally. She's really active, though, and I think that's helping her stay a lot more "up" than I was at her age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 In addition to implementing the good suggestions already posted, I would educate myself on depression. If the information sounds like what you are observing, and what you are "sensing between the lines", then please obtain recommendations for respected pediatric psychologists and pediatric psychiatrists. If depression is involved, a matter-of-fact recognition of a common, treatable condition never should be avoided. Please, please do not leap to any wild conclusions after I type the following sentence. It also is a long-shot possible that something bad has happened to her, and loving, gentle patience will lead her to confide in you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Are you able to offer her horseback riding lessons? Horses have helped many teen girls find joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Mine acted like this for a while and it ended up she was suffering from mono. Probably not the case with your dd but still wanted to put it out there. Might not be a bad idea to get her thyroid checked. I had unaddressed thyroid problems as a young teen, and it is miserable. It can cause depression, tiredness, hair falling out, and also menstral irregularities. Again, just throwing the info out there for you. Sounds like you are a very caring mother. Maybe you could get her some happy, peppy music she could put on to help lift her mood. Works for my dd. :) I think part of it could also be that she is twelve. ;) ask me how I know. I have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Frog Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Most likely it is hormones/puberty/age, etc. I would get a physical done though that checks blood work. Some girls become hypothyroid around puberty (per our endo) but many doctors don't check TSH, etc. at this age. Anemia, B vitamins, Vit,D, etc. are all other good ones to check. It is quick and easy and they can check for a lot of things with one blood test. If any of these are off, they could be causing the depression symptoms. With the hoodies---is she self conscious about her development or lack of it? Does she have comfortable, well fitting bras? Has she ever read The Care and Keeping of You and/or other books on puberty and the changes to expect? If you can take her alone places with you to run errands, stop and get a shake or coffee drink or special treat she might open up a bit more, or while walking, etc. Many teens open up when they aren't face to face talking. I hear about lots of different things when we are out horseback riding. Are you in an area with lots of gray, cloudy days lately? If so, having her work in front of a special light for SAD might be helpful as well. I would like to second the bolded. Some of my dd's symptoms were similar to what you're seeing in your dd. In our case, hypothyroidism seems to be dd's cause; the symptoms started when dd was about 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree with others on getting a check up and asking for blood work. I thought it was just normal teen/tween stuff in my oldest as well. She ended up worse when high school started and we found out she was anemic and also needed to supplement her B12. Her numbers were seriously low. She is also being treated for some mental health issues but the iron and B12 supplementation is helping a great deal. As far as clothing and hoodies go, both of my dds went through a covering up stage between 11-13. They were baggy clothes, hoodies, and/or layers. They both seemed to come out of around the same time and are fine now. So, I would let that go for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I think you sound like you're being super smart about how you help her through adolescence and you're getting good advice. But I wanted to say... I was an introverted, indoorsy, self-conscious 12 yo once and I never felt tired every day like that. I mean, sleep cycles and bad school hours and teenage irritability, but not like I was living in molasses (that's more like what middle age feels like apparently). So I really second the checkup and seeing a doctor. That doesn't immediately strike me as a normal puberty thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This doesn't really compare so take it for what it's worth. Last year my son started telling me he felt sad every day. There didn't seem to be much reason. He didn't wear hoodies or stay secluded in his room, but he would droop and say he felt sad. For us cutting out CNN Student News and cutting back on some of the more depressing books he'd read (Hunger Games) got rid of it. We did that because his doctor recommended it as a first step to figuring out why he felt sad. I would suggest taking stock in what books she reads, movies she watches, music she listens to, and news she hears. There might be something that's triggering this or adding to it. My friend is a nurse practitioner and says that she constantly (constantly) gets a steady stream of patients coming to her and saying they're depressed. She suggests that they exercise, eat right, take stock of what they watch, and *then* come back to see her. She says pretty much no one follows her advice. They just want to go straight to the meds. But of course, if one is depressed changing eating habits and starting exercises, etc, seems overwhelming, so it's a catch-22. Since you're the mom, you can implement some simple changes for your daughter if she doesn't have the energy to do it herself (eating, exercise, taking stock of music/books/etc.) If the simple changes don't help, you can dig deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Are you concerned she is wearing baggie hoodies or generally baggy clothing to hide her body from you at all? I ask, bc some young ladies at that age may wear baggy things to hide that they are getting thinner via anorexia or binge purging. I hope that is not the case, and don't want to cause alarm, but I've seen this happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoEdgedSword Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 And then there is hiding weight gain and/or pregnancy, but that doesn't sound like a concern. Again, hope not. Keeping the doors of communication open, which sounds like you are really doing, is a great thing. I also second or third the thyroid testing. Plus talking to a doctor with you there, may bring out an issue that would otherwise stay under wraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saddlemomma Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Exercise, sunlight, enough sleep, enough good food AND a check up with the GP. I just realized an important point because of your post, Sadie! You are absolutely right about the bolded. Just recently (about 2 weeks) ago, we switched all our light bulbs from soft white florescent to daylight LED bulbs. We only did this because Lowe's was having a great sale on them. About 4 days after the change, DD came down from her room that morning smiling and all chipper. She bounced over to me and said she felt really happy and upbeat the last couple of days and she couldn't understand why. My internal light bulb went off, and I reminded her that we had recently switched bulbs and I wondered if that made the difference. As Sadie stated above....It's something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 You've had so much good advice! I'll just throw in a few other suggestions. Keep the communication going, no matter what. Even relating what you went through when you were young, perhaps. But at the same time, don't dwell on it too much. Try and make the home atmosphere and your general conversations light and positive, and use humor when you can. My husband was so good at this with our kids. He'd first talk with them seriously -- putting it all out there on the table and just discussing everything, helping them them put it into perspective. Then, he'd lighten up and have fun. We generally only allowed fun, happy music and positive books and TV shows/movies for years when our kids were growing up, really until high school age. It's really amazing how much something like a song can pull your mood up or down. I find this true even now, as an adult! Then, I'd also work at finding a parent/dd project. For example, when one of my dds was going through a difficult time, my husband talked her into entering an MS bike ride across our state with her. They went riding bikes every day to build up their endurance, and they organized a community car wash together as a fundraiser, which we all helped with. The whole thing was really a blast. The rest of our family followed along with them and camped as they want on the bike ride, which lasted for several days. My dd loved it and felt so good about it and herself. I'd also dig in, if you can, to her friendships. You say she has some good friends, but maybe there are things going on there that are not very uplifting or positive for her. Maybe they have their own problems which are dragging her down. I think you are doing a great job being aware and vigilant about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 http://news.essilorusa.com/stories/detail/exposure-to-blue-light-could-increase-your-risk-of-age-related-macular-dege Saddlemama mentioned LED lights. I'm linking an article because I am mistrustful of LED lighting. Esilor (a French company) is reputable. My husband worked with them when they were a client company a few years ago, and he has a good friend who worked there. As my father has macular degeneration, I'm on guard against anything that could exacerbate his condition, or could lead to the same occurring in any other of us family members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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