MarkT Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 http://whatwilltheylearn.com/ geared towards liberal arts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 I disagree with Foreign Language requirements for most non-majors at college this should have been done earlier - We should start Foreign Language study in Elementary school then through High School (In other countries such as Germany, The Netherlands, The Philippines they start early with English and just about any educated person can converse with a monolingual American.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You can find out which schools follow the best practice of using a standardized assessment to measure student learning gains in core collegiate skills. Above quoted from the link in the original post. Why would my kids want to attend a college that sounds exactly like high school? The link grades the schools as if they should all require every student to take classes in every field. AND expects the colleges to give a standardized multiple-choice type test at the end of each class. Then what was the point of high school?? We are already one of the only nations in the world that require students to study multiple core fields - mathematics, science, history, English for 13 years. It sounds like a continuation of common core. I didn't realize there was even a movement to have common core reach all the way to the college level. I would think one of the joys of college is being able to finally specialize in areas that interest you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 You can find out which schools follow the best practice of using a standardized assessment to measure student learning gains in core collegiate skills. Above quoted from the link in the original post. Why would my kids want to attend a college that sounds exactly like high school? The link grades the schools as if they should all require every student to take classes in every field. AND expects the colleges to give a standardized multiple-choice type test at the end of each class. Then what was the point of high school?? We are already one of the only nations in the world that require students to study multiple core fields - mathematics, science, history, English for 13 years. It sounds like a continuation of common core. I didn't realize there was even a movement to have common core reach all the way to the college level. I would think one of the joys of college is being able to finally specialize in areas that interest you. some folks have said the proposed Obama free CC tuition thing is just to extend common core to that level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Clarkson a D? Vassar an F? UVA a D? I don't think so. I see ODU got B. One of my degrees is from there....nope, not a B, LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I disagree with Foreign Language requirements for most non-majors at college this should have been done earlier - We should start Foreign Language study in Elementary school then through High School (In other countries such as Germany, The Netherlands, The Philippines they start early with English and just about any educated person can converse with a monolingual American.) Where are you going to get the teachers who are genuinely fluent in foreign languages to staff the elementary schools? We can't even get enough who are competent at math. (fwiw, I agree with you on *we should* -- I just don't find it feasible without some serious bonuses to get people into the schools). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Our school district begins teaching foreign language in third grade: Spanish, French, German, Mandarin Chinese and Latin. In high school, they also offer Japanese and Hebrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You can find out which schools follow the best practice of using a standardized assessment to measure student learning gains in core collegiate skills. Above quoted from the link in the original post. Why would my kids want to attend a college that sounds exactly like high school? The link grades the schools as if they should all require every student to take classes in every field. AND expects the colleges to give a standardized multiple-choice type test at the end of each class. Then what was the point of high school?? We are already one of the only nations in the world that require students to study multiple core fields - mathematics, science, history, English for 13 years. It sounds like a continuation of common core. I didn't realize there was even a movement to have common core reach all the way to the college level. I would think one of the joys of college is being able to finally specialize in areas that interest you. This. This is not a grade for how well the college teaches you what you need to learn in your major, but how much gen ed courses they require. And yeah, really most of this gen ed stuff should have been covered in high school. You should not have to pay for college to be a well-educated. well-rounded citizen. One thing that struck me when I lived in Europe was that is seemed that even the people who had attended school only through 10th grade (and then gone into a trade) seemed to be more educated in most of these "general education" topics than many of the kids I went to college with in the US. They certainly were much more informed about what was going on in the world. It occurs to me that in the countries where university is free or low cost due to government support, almost all go directly to specialization. I wonder if the fact that we don't support our universities leads to both laziness on the part of the public high schools (hey, they'll get it in college), and also an incentive to lengthen and pad the time in university here, since they are making $$$ on each class they can justify requiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oldest's college wasn't listed. Middle and youngest's schools got a D and F respectively. My Alma mater got a C. I am so disappointed in all of our choices. :lol: (Or not! :coolgleamA: I'm glad we all could study what we liked!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Dh's alma mater earned a D, and mine received an F. I am proud of the F because if "common core" for college had existed then, I would not be the musician I am today nor would have been able to stack science course upon science course for a non major. There would not have been room or time if a huge amount of gen ed had been required.Figure it out and get it done K12 so these students can get on studying their passions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Where are you going to get the teachers who are genuinely fluent in foreign languages to staff the elementary schools? We can't even get enough who are competent at math. (fwiw, I agree with you on *we should* -- I just don't find it feasible without some serious bonuses to get people into the schools). Depends on the language of course - here in AZ many of the teachers and parent volunteers know enough Spanish to start Elementary kids. Between online resources and parent volunteers it could be done quite inexpensively for the younger students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space station Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Both my alma maters got "F's." As near as I can tell, it is because they allow placement out of general ed classes if your ACT or SAT scores are high enough. I certainly couldn't have done all that I did in college (study abroad, co-op for a year, 2 majors, etc.) if I had to take all the basics again. Weird way to rank programs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What a ridiculous assessment. The university where I teach has a strong STEM focus and 80% of our students take at least calc 3...but ranks deficient in math. DD attends one of the top ranked economics schools, and it ranks deficient in... economics. This tells me it is not worth perusing these data any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Our school district begins teaching foreign language in third grade: Spanish, French, German, Mandarin Chinese and Latin. In high school, they also offer Japanese and Hebrew. I checked statistics a few years ago on Japanese. I can't remember if it was AP or SAT II, but only 3 people in our entire state took the test. I wish we had diversity in language instruction here. My school got a B, probably because they do require a wide range of General Eds. They sell it as learning to expand your horizons, and it's probably true for a lot of students as many are from the region and the rural areas around here. They may not have had any real diversity in their high school career and are undecided. For me, it's a bit frustrating because I do know where I want to focus and would prefer to skip the departments in which I have no interest. My major doesn't have a huge number of required hours, but some like art and education do. Combine that with the general eds and it limits any sort of "fun" classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Top liberal arts schools where student ARRIVE proficient in core subjects are receiving F's. I think this is a pretty useless assessment because it is so poorly structured. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 My undergraduate university was rated F; the university (an Ivy League) at which I received my advanced degree was also rated F. I guess I can pick them! My husband's undergraduate university was rated F. He attended the same university as I did for graduate school. My daughter's college was also rated F. (Genetics at play!) Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 They give Stanford a C and Harvard a D. Wonder who gets an A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 OK I checked their A list. They like the military academies...those do have pretty strict core requirements for everyone regardless of major, so I guess if standardization is the ultimate goal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Considering the criteria they're using, the take-away from this seems to be that unless you have a kid that has a really crappy general education going into college, you want to choose schools that get an F or D on this list, so they don't have to waste time and money taking and paying for classes they don't need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Well there goes four minutes of my life that I'll never get back. What a ridiculous waste of space on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I teach at an "A" school according to this list. This list is not at all about what students will learn. It ranks schools based upon how the requirements in their core curriculum are listed; basically it is based upon the naming of the classes (not on what is taught in the classes OR what is learned in the classes.) In the case of the school at which I teach, it often doesn't even reflect what the students are taking at THIS university. We have many students who take the "core" at the community college and transfer in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 You can find out which schools follow the best practice of using a standardized assessment to measure student learning gains in core collegiate skills. I wonder who decided that this is a "best practice" and what their rationale for doing so was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Depends on the language of course - here in AZ many of the teachers and parent volunteers know enough Spanish to start Elementary kids. Between online resources and parent volunteers it could be done quite inexpensively for the younger students. I think we should pay professionals that we expect to teach students in public schools. In many (most, maybe) school districts, the money is there, it just needs to be reallocated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can't take the results of this survey seriously. It is such a weird way to evaluate a college. The college my son will be going to earned a "D," yet they have one of the best thought out general education department that I have ever come across, allowing students to tailor their general education requirements to their areas of interest and/or their intended major. Additionally, there is a private university here that is close to closing it's doors, yet they get an "A" - simply because they have a list of classes without regard to the fact that they are bleeding students, professors and funding? ETA: My husband's alma mater, The University of Illinois gets an F. Seriously? I'm supposed to believe that an Illinois engineering graduate isn't educated? I don't think so. ETAA: I just looked at their rating criteria. The ratings don't even make sense in light of what I know about the University my son will be attending. They have gen ed requirements for all of the areas listed. Also, what's this "crisis" in colleges that they are referring to? Is it that students aren't sufficiently prepared? If so, the place to address that deficiency is in the high schools, not the university. ETAAA: Another thing - here's a quote from the site - but the shortfall he notes is in high school level knowledge, not college level knowledge! " Many studies have shown that our college graduates are ignorant of the basic principles on which our government runs. For starters, most cannot identify the purpose of the First Amendment, what Reconstruction was, or the historical context of the Voting Rights Act. If you peruse this website, you will see why: the vast majority of our colleges have made a course on the broad themes of U.S. history or government optional." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I disagree with Foreign Language requirements for most non-majors at college this should have been done earlier - We should start Foreign Language study in Elementary school then through High School I must say I disagree with the premise of the entire rating system. You find the most unusual sites, Mark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I teach at an "A" school according to this list. This list is not at all about what students will learn. It ranks schools based upon how the requirements in their core curriculum are listed; basically it is based upon the naming of the classes (not on what is taught in the classes OR what is learned in the classes.) In the case of the school at which I teach, it often doesn't even reflect what the students are taking at THIS university. We have many students who take the "core" at the community college and transfer in. I think this is the case. One LAC listed, one which is quite hard to get into, receives flak for having unusually strong core requirements. It received a D or an F (can't remember which). It's students arrive well versed in the core subjects and the college classes that continue that have interesting, very specific names, names like Gender Equality in the Southern US in the 1800's rather than US History II. Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 My dc have had all of these subjects at the AP/IB level in high school. In college I expect them to study new subjects and specialize, not review the stuff they had in high school. I hope the schools they choose do not require a core of general classes so specifically chosen. These are mostly the same subjects many college bound high schoolers take. Taking up several required credits with these courses is actually limiting for the student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think we should pay professionals that we expect to teach students in public schools. In many (most, maybe) school districts, the money is there, it just needs to be reallocated. not in AZ - new budget just hammered higher ed - K-12 got a little more but a dollar saved is a dollar earned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 not in AZ - new budget just hammered higher ed - K-12 got a little more but a dollar saved is a dollar earned I'm referencing K-12, as you were in the post to which I was responding. I think you'd be amazed at how much money could be reallocated by having an average person take a look at the budget. Most public school systems are top-heavy, with a lot of administrative costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I don't think their list is too reliable. The colleges I went to at college age, and the one I attend now, all require things that this list shows as not required for them. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I don't think their list is too reliable. The colleges I went to at college age, and the one I attend now, all require things that this list shows as not required for them. Interesting. This is probably due to the way the courses are lumped together or titled. The public university where I teach receives an "A" because students are required to take literature, history, and government. However, they can take courses from a long list to meet those requirements. A student could take Texas history, Literature of Southern Texas, and Texas Politics with 300 students stuffed into a classroom to meet those requirements--not exactly what I would consider a broad, liberal arts education. A private, liberal arts school in town, however doesn't receive an "A" because students take a freshman seminar class with no more than 15 students in which they read literature and do intensive writing--but it is called "freshman seminar"--so it doesn't count as literature or writing in this ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm sorry, but IMO this is dumb. "The site that tells you if colleges make student learn what they need to know." According to who? I got a fine education at an LAC and they were rated F. I totally disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The group behind this listing seems to have a pretty clear political agenda. They discuss that one of their missions is to fight "political correctness" on campuses, and they want to promote more required courses in Western Civilization, US History, and Economics (specifically capitalism). The three colleges they gave the highest grades to are all Catholic colleges, while Williams, Vassar, and Berkeley got Fs. Part of their mission is also fund-raising for specific programs at specific institutions, the goals of which include: "teaching the principles of limited government, constitutionalism, and classical liberalism" "the study of constitutional democracy in the twenty-first century.†“engage in the study of political philosophy and freedom as it relates to the American Founding.†"examine the spiritual, moral, and cultural preconditions of free people and institutions.†“further free enterprise and economic education in the schools and the broader community.†“to advance the study of America’s founding principles and their roots in the Western philosophical and religious traditions.†“promote excellence in scholarship through the study of freedom, democracy and capitalism" “contribute to the discourse of the issues of capitalism … as both an ethical system and a programmatic mechanism for organizing an economy†“Western Civilization as a distinct phenomenon.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I looked at the list of all the colleges in my state. Three received A's. Two of those schools are private Christian schools with an overtly fundamentalist focus. The three schools are not the most competitive. They are not known for any particular academic programs. They are not known for great job placement or grad school admissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 While I'm with you that there's clearly an agenda and the website is worse than junk, FWIW I would not automatically link political conservatism with the Catholic angle. Prominent Catholic universities received poor grades. I agree that the issue isn't that they're Catholic so much as that they're conservative institutions that require courses in Western Civ, US History, Economics, and Christian Theology — i.e. the most important components of "what students need to know" according to ACTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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