High School Lit - shock value

[Entropymama]

I'm looking ahead to high school and went online to get a copy of the local high school's literature list. Out of more than 50 titles, only two were remotely good - Animal Farm and The Sign of the Beaver (although - high school? That seems like a 6th grade book to me). The rest of the list was composed entirely of shock books - they all had to do with suicide, cutting, abusive parents, rape, losing your virginity, etc., etc. 

 

FOUR teachers were using Twilight. One was using Christopher Paolini (and I know how we all feel about him). 

 

Almost every Amazon description used the word 'horror'. 

 

Why?! 

 

In seriousness, though - why? Do teachers use the material despite itself to teach something of literary value? 

 

If statistics show that after high school almost nobody reads at all, shouldn't we use this time to cram as many classics into them as possible? Or is there real worth in these books that I'm missing? 

[Tanaqui]

I haven't ever read Twilight or Eragon, so I'll refrain from commenting. However, I can think of a few possibilities here, the most likely being that many of those students are simply not capable of more demanding work, and so the teachers are trying to meet them where they are with popular fiction. That would also explain "Sign of the Beaver" being on the list.

[kiana]

In seriousness, though - why? Do teachers use the material despite itself to teach something of literary value? 

 

If statistics show that after high school almost nobody reads at all, shouldn't we use this time to cram as many classics into them as possible? Or is there real worth in these books that I'm missing? 

 

Is it better to teach a book that most of the class will refuse to read/be unable to read and rely on "she can't fail the whole class", or to try and teach something that they will actually read?

 

It is frequently said in homeschooling circles, "The inferior curriculum that gets done is better than a superior curriculum that doesn't get taught" -- I submit that the same thing is true in public schools.

[hornblower]

 

 

If statistics show that after high school almost nobody reads at all, shouldn't we use this time to cram as many classics into them as possible? Or is there real worth in these books that I'm missing? 

 

Odds are if you assign hard lit that nobody finds relevant or relateable, that won't make them be readers either. And even if you do assign them, it's possible they wouldn't read those classics anyway - many, many students get through English by watching the movie & reading sparks/coles/pinkmonkey notes. 

 

& honestly - I might be opening a huge can of worms for saying this on the WTM board - I think a lot of what passes as literary value is sheer snobbery. I love pulp fiction, I love romance, sci-fi, adventure, mystery.  Stories. It's just stories. Stories about others who are like us & others who are not like us at all but might inspire us or frighten us or move us.  Oh I spent years reading Dosteyevsky & Tolstoy & Conrad & the English Victorians. Yeah, these books are important. But they're not going to turn a reluctant reader into a reader & you can go through life quite happily & be a darned good person without having read War & Peace.

 

My one concern, which I have previously expressed in this board, is about how depressing much of the high school curriculum is, whether it's classics or not. The suicide, abusive parents, rape etc it's all relevant, but in too much a dose, I think it's to disheartening & depressing. But much of 'good lit' is just as depressing if not more.

 

The Kite Runner is a frequently assigned book here. I think probably everyone would agree it's literary though perhaps not yet a classic... but sheesh that thing is depressing.

 

I just want them to read. Read anything. Read sci-fi, read romance, read comedy. Read. Read stories, read non-fiction, read webzines, read fanfic.  I'm sure there is a genre and an author and a book for everyone. It's sad that people stop looking for that beloved author or beloved book because people tell them 'your books are not real books. Those stories aren't worth my time or yours. THESE are REAL books & if you don't like them there's something wrong with you.'

 

In an ideal universe, every English teacher would work with a brilliant librarian & an amazing computer algorithm & work hard to place the perfect book in every student's hand. Every student would get a different book, but that would be ok. "Tell us about your book, tell us why you couldn't put it down, tell us how it stayed with you, how you wished it wouldn't end."

 

& then, then, the brilliant teacher says "ahhh, you loved that book. You know what? There are tons more like that. Here! Keep reading. OH & I have this other thing. It's harder. It might take a moment for you to learn to like it but I think you'll enjoy this because it's got some similarities to your book. Here. Some people say it's a classic. Some people say talking about it shows you're smart. Don't listen to them. THIS is a good story, well told. It's just a story. Give it a try."

[kiana]

Beautifully said, hornblower.

[regentrude]

 

In an ideal universe, every English teacher would work with a brilliant librarian & an amazing computer algorithm & work hard to place the perfect book in every student's hand. Every student would get a different book, but that would be ok. "Tell us about your book, tell us why you couldn't put it down, tell us how it stayed with you, how you wished it wouldn't end."

 

& then, then, the brilliant teacher says "ahhh, you loved that book. You know what? There are tons more like that. Here! Keep reading. OH & I have this other thing. It's harder. It might take a moment for you to learn to like it but I think you'll enjoy this because it's got some similarities to your book. Here. Some people say it's a classic. Some people say talking about it shows you're smart. Don't listen to them. THIS is a good story, well told. It's just a story. Give it a try."

 

In the ideal universe, this would have been the parents' job... so that the English teacher can actually TEACH a high school level course instead of begging reluctant readers to pick up a book, any book.

[regentrude]

I'm looking ahead to high school and went online to get a copy of the local high school's literature list. Out of more than 50 titles, only two were remotely good - Animal Farm and The Sign of the Beaver (although - high school? That seems like a 6th grade book to me). The rest of the list was composed entirely of shock books - they all had to do with suicide, cutting, abusive parents, rape, losing your virginity, etc., etc. 

 

FOUR teachers were using Twilight. One was using Christopher Paolini (and I know how we all feel about him). 

 

Almost every Amazon description used the word 'horror'. 

 

Why?!

In seriousness, though - why? Do teachers use the material despite itself to teach something of literary value? 

If statistics show that after high school almost nobody reads at all, shouldn't we use this time to cram as many classics into them as possible? Or is there real worth in these books that I'm missing? 

 

Simple: the students are incapable of reading anything more difficult.

You could cram highschool full of classics, but they would not be capable of getting anything out of them.

teachers would have to spend class time reading the books out loud to the students (a friend of mine is an English teacher and not allowed to assign reading at home - so every word is read IN class.)

 

As for the topic choice: that's the educational philosophy that we can only ask them to read stuff that is "directly relevant" to their lives. Don't let me go there....

 

[idnib]

I'll go ahead and say it. :D

 

If the teachers are younger and went through high school during NCLB, we may also have reached a point where they are incapable of teaching the harder books. It may be possible that they are not catering to the students' lower ability, but their own. Or both.

[msjones]

My son just read an Romeo and Juliet in his 9th grade public school lit class.  They also read Night.   :)  My 8th grader's teacher just assigned Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry. The first week of school my 8th grader was reading the preamble to the Constitution.  

 

I'm pretty happy with those assignments.  

 

 

[MariaT]

Unfortunately, I have come across this in homeschool lit classes as well. I remember a homeschool mom trying to talk an AP Lit instructor into assigning shorter books for an upcoming AP Lit class. Her sons were not big readers, and were balking at reading a number of 300-400 page books--all classics, with the most recent being Native Son. The instructor, also a homeschool mom, was very surprised-- her own children read Jane Eyre before high school. But she also considered that for these particular students, her lit class might be their last chance to read any literature-- that once they moved into college, into their STEM majors, they would not ever read another piece of literature. The boys' mom said that high school was the last time she read any literature herself. 

 

I think the instructor ended up dropping one book and substituted ALOT of poetry and short stories. They still had to read a ton of 300-400 page classics. The AP Board approved her syllabus literally overnight. Although my oldest DS thrived in that class, I don't think the instructor was able to turn the two nonreaders into lit lovers. If the parent wasn't modeling reading at home--and discussing literature-- it would be very hard to teach that in a class.

 

Maria

 

Maria

[Joker]

I haven't run into that problem around here. My 9th grader was assigned Of Mice and Men the first quarter, they're reading Romeo and Juliet now, and Anthem is up next. I know there are two more works assigned but I can't remember what they are right now, but they're not current popular fiction.

 

Middle school here does a lot of short stories, poetry, and non fiction right now but they always end with a decent novel study. Last year, for 6th grade, youngest read and studied The Giver. This year, for 7th grade, she will read and study Julius Caesar and a novel but I'm not sure what it will be yet.

[Kalmia]

I definitely think that there is a misconception that r@pe, abuse, cutting, etc. are everyday things amongst all teenagers and that in some way reading about these things will be therapy. Considering how many posts on this forum are headed with "trigger alert" meaning that there is content that might trigger PSTD or bad feelings from past abuses, I cannot fathom how these teachers think it is a good idea to present these topics to young people for whom they have little background information. There seems to be a blending of psychology and English literature that I am just not quite getting. Sure these things are part of the human condition which is explored in literature but there is so much more to the human experience, beauty, character, loyalty, freedom, discovery, surely 5 out of every 10 books on the reading list needn't include r@pe. I am also very concerned as a parent who has tried to prolong some innocence and childhood as long as possible that now many 14 year old boys and girls first introduction to s@x in literature will not be in the context of a relationship, but instead a graphic depiction of a r@pe. I strongly believe that people, including teens, should be able to choose the books that interest them, but assigning books in school that are required reading is a very serious responsibility, but the current educational "fad" is favoring books that explore the dark underbelly of teenage culture instead of expanding the student's worldview to include a wider range of experience.

I'm looking ahead to high school and went online to get a copy of the local high school's literature list. Out of more than 50 titles, only two were remotely good - Animal Farm and The Sign of the Beaver (although - high school? That seems like a 6th grade book to me). The rest of the list was composed entirely of shock books - they all had to do with suicide, cutting, abusive parents, rape, losing your virginity, etc., etc. 

 

 

If your thesis is that the classics are completely wholesome, with no shock or questionable substance, you might want to re-visit Homer and Shakespeare.

[Elisabet1]

Try to make sure you are looking at lists for honors or PreAP classes. And maybe look at the lists for top private schools, if there are any in the area. Ones you would respect anyway. 

 

I would never want to use the reading lists from the public school regular classes. If I wanted to imitate public school, I would just save my time and send my children there in the first place. My main reason for home schooling is the lack of quality in the public school. 

[kiana]

In the ideal universe, this would have been the parents' job... so that the English teacher can actually TEACH a high school level course instead of begging reluctant readers to pick up a book, any book.

 

I agree ... but I wish we could live in that ideal universe. I can only imagine what I could teach in classes if my students showed up ... I won't even say eager ... but ready and willing to put in effort and learn.

 

[Susie in CA]

Both my boys are attending school this year (9th and 10th grade). Interestingly, I do not have a problem with the choice of material, but with the quantity. The 9th grader is reading The Pearl, The Lord of the Flies, To Kill A Mockingbird and a (very) few short stories. The 10th grader is reading Night, Cry My Beloved Country and Much Ado About Nothing. 

When we homeschooled we read many, many more books than this. It's a good school. The boys like it a lot. I wish they read more.

 

 

[Jamee]

My 9th grader attending public school language arts read Romeo and Juliet and is working on Poe right now.  Same stories I read in 9th grade.  (I actually found it interesting that it hasn't changed--not even in the same state.) I think Steinbeck and Homer on the list for later.  I'll be curious to see how Homer gets presented considering my son started listening to him in 4th grade.

[G5052]

Yes, the same here.  A friend of mine has kids in honors English in 9th and 10th, and then they do AP English.  Everything they are reading is modern, and just one larger book a year.  The average AP score there is below a "3," but IMHO that may be a function of more than their reading.

 

My daughter is in a local class that the teacher had to scale back because some of the books were just too hard for the mix of kids, but thankfully she's such a good teacher that she assigns extra books to some of the kids to present and projects to the others, so it works out in the end.  Next year my DC will continue with that class plus AP English Language online, and she'll be fine.

[Hunter]

When teaching lower functioning students, there is sometimes a large divide in what can be assigned for independent reading and what can be assigned for in-class study. If a school is set up for students to mostly self-educate and do homework, then all a teacher really can do is try to choose books s/he thinks students will actually read at home.

 

If a teacher has the time and ability to TEACH in CLASS, then s/he has more options.

 

I don't believe in cramming long lists of books into the high school years in fear that student will never read another book. I believe that high school aged students have the right to a developmentally appropriate curriculum that meets the needs of the mind, body and soul. The increasing AP push is not developmentally appropriate. The AP curriculum was never designed to become the default high school language arts curriculum for teenaged people.

 

If we design a curriculum that meets the needs of the mind, body and soul, it will nourish a person, and when they later stray from the model that worked, they will gravitate back to it, instead of fleeing with relief, never to look back.

 

My current default plan for Shakespeare is a reading of Lamb's retellings in year 8 and a viewing of the 1968 version Romeo and Juliet in year 10. A taste, not a cram.

 

I'm not in agreement with Twilight for "school", but I also think that Omnibus and AP lit are often too much for the average public school teenager. There is a middle ground.

 

If we are talking about SUMMER reading lists, I don't know, I think there is a place for a mixture of all genres of books. I think a chart where students are supposed to sample multiple genres, could include Twilight and similar books. I think summer reading lists should focus on volume and variety, and instilling a reading habit, rather than being a slog list that would overwhelm the average adult.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

One was using Christopher Paolini (and I know how we all feel about him). 

 

 

I don't know.. How do we *all* feel about him?

[Harriet Vane]

I don't know.. How do we *all* feel about him?

 

I have no idea how others feel about him, but I can give my own opinion.

 

I really enjoyed Eragon and thought it was well written. I applauded Paolini's parents for their support for his writing.

 

Book 2 wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either. It seemed to get bogged down and overcomplicated, and parts of it seemed to be celebrating/enjoying deviant, painful practices (like the weird bone cult). I didn't feel it accomplished much, though I was still invested enough to want to read the third.

 

Unfortunately, the third in the series is just a mess. It is gratuitously violent and depicts the deviant, painful practices I mentioned above in sick detail. (Not only for the bone cult, but for other parts as well, esp with regard to the evil leader.) I didn't feel that those descriptions lent anything to the plot and were nearly useless developmentally. Also, I prefer not to linger in my own mind on those images nor to let my kids develop an unhealthy enjoyment of this type of dysfunction, cruelty, and violence. Aside from the cruelty and violence, I was also disappointed in how the plot seemed to drift aimlessly, getting even more bogged down and overcomplicated than book two.

 

If I were Paolini's editor, I would have required him to simplify the plot. Big time. I also would have encouraged him to try to recapture the magic of the first book, with the simple farm boy and his dragon becoming heroes.