Jefferson's letter to his 11 yo daughter - have times changed for better or worse :)

[momee]

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/jeffersonadvice.htm

 

On the subject of dress and usage of time regarding education, methinks the times have changed!

 

Regarding teenagers and parents difficulties with disciplinary efforts, not so much :)

[NorthwestMom]

Oh my. That was interesting. Thanks for posting this!

[Elisabet1]

Very interesting!!!

[JumpyTheFrog]

I guess she wasn't doing any cleaning if she had to always have a perfect appearance.

 

I thought five hours per day was a lot for practicing music and drawing or letter writing. It doesn't look like she was expected to do any math.

[wendy not in HI]

I'd rather read her letters!  

 

At 11 years old, my son has started writing emails to his grandma - they are the sweetest things, but about 3 sentences long...

[bettyandbob]

I had a friend in college who researched Jefferson's college letters. He attended William and Mary. I remember we thought it was funny, but he had all the same issues college students have. He wrote about troubles with girls and professors, social activities and classes. Nothing had changed.

[Anne in CA]

I am surprised at no mention of math at all. Also, what a long time for some of those things, but since he didn't mention meals he must have been expecting her to take meal breaks out of those times. I wonder if she took tea for an hour in the late afternoon as well as dinner. Otherwise she would be a very tired young lady. 

[TheApprentice]

That was very interesting to read. Seeing Thomas Jefferson having parenting difficulty like the rest of us is somehow very comforting. I'm not sure why, but there it is.

[LucyStoner]

I guess she wasn't doing any cleaning if she had to always have a perfect appearance.

Slave holding, affluent family. She wouldn't have many, if any chores. Jefferson was, due to his lavish standard of living, usually in debt up to his ears. That's why he didn't free all his slaves on his death like Washigton did on Martha's death. His estate was way in the red, his creditors defacto owned pretty much everything, he couldn't have much say about anything.

 

I thought five hours per day was a lot for practicing music and drawing or letter writing. It doesn't look like she was expected to do any math.

A ladies education. Marriage to a wealthy man was all she was supposed to be preparing for. Beyond basic arithmetic it was unusual for girls in her class in that era to learn ANY mathematics.

 

I, for one, am happy to be living in the 21st century and not the 18th!

[SproutMamaK]

I am suddenly extremely grateful to have been born at the time I was.

Was anyone else silently cheering just a little bit at her rebellion of not sending him all the letters he asked for?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am suddenly extremely grateful to have been born at the time I was.

 

Was anyone else silently cheering just a little bit at her rebellion of not sending him all the letters he asked for?

Me!  Was I reading it wrong when it seemed like his expressed love for her was dependent on her obedience to her?  

[LucyStoner]

They are said to have been very close later in his life. She left her husband and lived with him, caring for him until he died. Her son helped her execute his (nearly bankrupt) estate.

 

Letter writing language was quite dramatic then, to the point that it sounds downright overwrought to modern ears. She was an 11 year old who'd lost her mother. I wouldn't read too much into her not writing him every single post.

[JustEm]

What perfect timing. Ds is reading a book that mentions how much Jefferson wrote letters. Maybe I'll share this one with him since I think he'll get a kick out how ridiculous her learning sounds.

[LucyStoner]

And how many children rebel and then come full circle to a wonderful relationship with their parents later in life?

If not writing to your parents is rebellion, then I am so busted for all those letter-less summers.

 

11 year olds, unsurprisingly, usually have things they would rather be doing with their time than whatever mom or dad says they should do. I don't see that as rebellious so much as the natural course of things.

[bolt.]

Me! Was I reading it wrong when it seemed like his expressed love for her was dependent on her obedience to her?

You read it right, but I think the contextual meaning of "love" has shifted a bit -- I've read before examples where it seemed that "love" meant both affection and complete approval...

 

In context, I would interpret it something like, "I can say I love you so very much because of my affection AND because I am completely satisfied with your good character and conduct. You are such a good girl, and I have nothing but approval towards you! If your conduct slips below my ideals, I would be so sad to be unable to feel 100% of this perfect feeling I have for you now."

[creekland]

I, for one, am happy to be living in the 21st century and not the 18th!

 

Another family I'd likely have been the black sheep in if I'd been born into his...  I'm glad to be this century and 1st World country and born into a family that encouraged us to be who we were rather than some stereotype.  I was outside - and probably quite dirty - most of my youth.

 

Even now I'm not sure I ever look like a "proper" lady at any time of day - even while teaching at school.  Fortunately, I found the one guy out there who doesn't seem to mind and the kids at school don't either!  ;)

 

And I can't help but wonder how many 6th graders today (11 year olds) would even understand his letter, much less, spend that much time studying or dancing or drawing or reading French or writing letters.  I do wonder what she did instead.  Hopefully had fun!   :lol:

 

Times have certainly changed.  Thanks for the link!

[SKL]

I thought it was cute.  I am sure the other parental letters of the day were similar in tone.

 

I read a Churchill biography and his mom and dad both reamed him out regularly when he was in boarding school.  :P

[SKL]

I actually would have loved that schedule when I was 11.  Well, if you switched out dance for gymnastics or something like that.

[LucyStoner]

You know, it just came out last year that my mother and stepfather have been pretty offended when I don't call or send birthday cards - I'm not sentimental at all and don't think anything of them not contacting me or sending anything, so I assumed they felt the same way. WRONG! That really bothered them, and I had no idea (which they informed me was quite odd), so I began setting iCal reminders a week before the events so I can remember to send a card.

 

I just never assume if someone doesn't contact me or ask after me that they don't love me or care, just that they're busy and everything is fine. My mom informs me this is rather socially inept, though :lol:

Your parents sound like my ILs. Odd thing is that they hold ME accountable for their son not writing. So I have added all possible card occasions to my calendar and I buy the cards and have my sons and husband sign them. I'm not really sure WHY I go along with this other than it gives me the satisfaction of knowing they can't complain about not getting cards.

[LucyStoner]

Another family I'd likely have been the black sheep in if I'd been born into his... I'm glad to be this century and 1st World country and born into a family that encouraged us to be who we were rather than some stereotype. I was outside - and probably quite dirty - most of my youth.

 

Even now I'm not sure I ever look like a "proper" lady at any time of day - even while teaching at school. Fortunately, I found the one guy out there who doesn't seem to mind and the kids at school don't either! ;)

 

And I can't help but wonder how many 6th graders today (11 year olds) would even understand his letter, much less, spend that much time studying or dancing or drawing or reading French or writing letters. I do wonder what she did instead. Hopefully had fun! :lol:

 

Times have certainly changed. Thanks for the link!

In the late 18th century (part of) my family were dirt poor German subsistence farmers in North Carolina, maybe a generation or so out of being indentured servants. Chances are good they didn't know how to read, female or male. No math OR dancing lessons for girls! Yes, I am glad to NOT have been born then.

[Ausmumof3]

No way she danced between 10 -1. I hope she went outside and climbed a tree instead!

Fitness level would be amazing though!!!

[creekland]

Fitness level would be amazing though!!!

 

But is that the sort of lady men would like?   :lol:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Fitness level would be amazing though!!!

I think the kind of dancing they were talking about was learning to dance the minuet and that sort of thing.  I don't think it was very athletic.  But then I don't know how to dance the minuet and maybe it is quite tiring!  

[Chelli]

I think the kind of dancing they were talking about was learning to dance the minuet and that sort of thing.  I don't think it was very athletic.  But then I don't know how to dance the minuet and maybe it is quite tiring!  

 

From what I understand the dances themselves were quite long (like 15 minutes or more per dance) plus the clothing they wore was quite heavy as well with all of the undergarments and layers. I would think it would be quite arduous. Or I could be a big wimp!

[katilac]

Me!  Was I reading it wrong when it seemed like his expressed love for her was dependent on her obedience to her?  

 

All I will say is that I read a different excerpt, and he told her to make sure she wore her bonnet or she would get brown with the sun and then she'd be ugly and he wouldn't love her so much.