All these hot car deaths...

[BatmansWife]

I don't generally post on this board, but I posted this on another homeschool forum and thought I'd help pass the word on here too. 

I just saw this on the Today Show website.  It's an online petition you can sign.  They want 100,000 signatures by July 23rd.  I'm not sure they are gonna make it...they just hit 1,000 right now. 

I hope this is ok to post about.  I just wanted to help, in even a small way, to get the word out. 

Pass it on...

 

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I just had to call 911 last week because someone left a little girl that looked maybe 3 years old in a car while she went in the grocery store.  My DD noticed the child sleeping in a carseat in the backseat and told me.  When the police came, they were so disgusted and told me it was the 3rd call they had been on that day for a young child being left in a car.  The grandma left the rear window almost half way down and the front driver window cracked about 2" on a 90* day.  Regardless of the heat, I can't understand anyone thinking it's ok to leave a child that young in a car.  The police said she could have been kidnapped and they don't know what people are thinking when doing this.

[wintermom]

I just had to call 911 last week because someone left a little girl that looked maybe 3 years old in a car while she went in the grocery store.  My DD noticed the child sleeping in a carseat in the backseat and told me.  When the police came, they were so disgusted and told me it was the 3rd call they had been on that day for a young child being left in a car.  The grandma left the rear window almost half way down and the front driver window cracked about 2" on a 90* day.  Regardless of the heat, I can't understand anyone thinking it's ok to leave a child that young in a car.  The police said she could have been kidnapped and they don't know what people are thinking when doing this.

 

This is obviously an intentional action, and if the lady knew she'd be facing a huge fine and possible imprisonment by leaving the child perhaps she would act differently. Or maybe simply impound vehicles for people who do this. Something a little more effective than no consequences whatsoever really should be considered.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I would think a person could face charges for doing something like that.  Child neglect or child endangerment???  It's just really awful!  There definitely needs to be consequences for doing this.  

 

Also, they told me the call they went on earlier that day that they were going to just warn the mother and let her go home, but she tried to lie about the circumstances and they ended up arresting her.  I don't think most people realize that if you lie to the police when being questioned about anything they can arrest you.  

[BatmansWife]

I just had to call 911 last week because someone left a little girl that looked maybe 3 years old in a car while she went in the grocery store.  My DD noticed the child sleeping in a carseat in the backseat and told me.  When the police came, they were so disgusted and told me it was the 3rd call they had been on that day for a young child being left in a car.  The grandma left the rear window almost half way down and the front driver window cracked about 2" on a 90* day.  Regardless of the heat, I can't understand anyone thinking it's ok to leave a child that young in a car.  The police said she could have been kidnapped and they don't know what people are thinking when doing this.

 

Wow...glad you took action and called 911.  So many people don't want to get involved. 

 

[vonfirmath]

What is this petititon for? I've read it several times and I don't know what they are petitioning for. To have this equipment described be mandatory equipment in all new cars sold in the US?

 

To require individuals to install this equipment in their car?

 

The only thing I see is "Petition Obama to stop child death in hot cars" but it is not clear what they want the President to do that will affect this. (effect?)

 

 

[marbel]

What is this petititon for? I've read it several times and I don't know what they are petitioning for. To have this equipment described be mandatory equipment in all new cars sold in the US?

 

To require individuals to install this equipment in their car?

 

The only thing I see is "Petition Obama to stop child death in hot cars" but it is not clear what they want the President to do that will affect this. (effect?)

 

Yes.  Sorry to the OP, but this looks like a well-intentioned "somebody must do something NOW!" petition and not well thought out.  Seems like there are laws against endangering a child.  Some places have laws regarding the age a child can be left alone in a car.  

 

 

[SKL]

Makes more sense to stop letting people put their kids in cars at all.  That would save over 1,000 children's lives per year.

 

Yesterday morning (it was not hot) I had to run into the grocery store for one item when I was running late getting my kids somewhere.  My third-grade daughters *refused* to stay in the car because the last time they did (for < 3 minutes at sunset), a cop came and scared them.  They are afraid I will be imprisoned and they will be placed in foster care if I make a reasoned parenting decision.  This is getting old.

[Slache]

There are so many simple ways of achieving this. We could have something attached to the car seat with an alarm on your key chain that goes off when you get 50 feet from it. Nothing annoying, just a reminder. Or maybe your car could ask you when you get in if your kids are in the car and then remind you when you turn it off. Whatever happens it should be something we turn to the private sector for, not the government.

[JustEm]

There are so many simple ways of achieving this. We could have something attached to the car seat with an alarm on your key chain that goes off when you get 50 feet from it. Nothing annoying, just a reminder. Or maybe your car could ask you when you get in if your kids are in the car and then remind you when you turn it off. Whatever happens it should be something we turn to the private sector for, not the government.

 

I imagine sometime in the near future some company will come out with something like you talk about.  My only thought is, will parents really pay for it though?  I can't imagine a parent ever saying, "Yeah, I do think I'll forget my kid at some point in time so I should get this."  Most people would assume they would NEVER do it themselves but of course other parents need such devices. Does that make sense?

[Word Nerd]

Yes.  Sorry to the OP, but this looks like a well-intentioned "somebody must do something NOW!" petition and not well thought out.  Seems like there are laws against endangering a child.  Some places have laws regarding the age a child can be left alone in a car.  

:iagree:

[SKL]

I imagine sometime in the near future some company will come out with something like you talk about.  My only thought is, will parents really pay for it though?  I can't imagine a parent ever saying, "Yeah, I do think I'll forget my kid at some point in time so I should get this."  Most people would assume they would NEVER do it themselves but of course other parents need such devices. Does that make sense?

 

It doesn't make sense to equip every car in the USA with a device that would be completely irrelevant to anyone without an infant/toddler.

 

It might make sense to equip baby car seats with a device of some sort, provided it could be done without adding too much to the cost.  If it became too expensive, it could make some people just skip the car seat all together....

[Moxie]

There is no solution to this problem. How many pool alarms/locks/etc. exist yet kids drown in pools every day. Accidents happen.

 

It is nice to think that there is a solution to these problems. There just isn't.

[December]

But how many kids are prevented from drowning due to locks and alarms?  Just because there isn't a solution that would prevent this 100% of the time doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find a way to reduce these deaths.

[SKL]

I think the best way to reduce the deaths is a simple awareness campaign.  "This happens to all sorts of nice, smart, responsible people.  Don't assume it couldn't happen to you.  Here are some easy ways to prevent it."

[Cera]

Makes more sense to stop letting people put their kids in cars at all.  That would save over 1,000 children's lives per year.

 

Yesterday morning (it was not hot) I had to run into the grocery store for one item when I was running late getting my kids somewhere.  My third-grade daughters *refused* to stay in the car because the last time they did (for < 3 minutes at sunset), a cop came and scared them.  They are afraid I will be imprisoned and they will be placed in foster care if I make a reasoned parenting decision.  This is getting old.

 

I have a third grader and a fifth grader.  I find myself looking over my shoulder and weighing the possible repercussions every time I let them stay in the car instead of come in somewhere with me (small town grocery store, post office, etc).  It's ridiculous.

 

They can ride their bikes a mile down our dirt road alone, wander around the open concept middle school (meaning my 5th grader transitions between buildings...alone) and go to camp which involves a whole week of loosely supervised by teenagers afternoons but can't be trusted to open the door of the car and walk inside if they need me?

 

eta: If they are really that incapable at 8 and 10 I have failed as a parent in a much larger way than leaving them in the car to run a quick errand.

[JustEm]

It doesn't make sense to equip every car in the USA with a device that would be completely irrelevant to anyone without an infant/toddler.

 

It might make sense to equip baby car seats with a device of some sort, provided it could be done without adding too much to the cost.  If it became too expensive, it could make some people just skip the car seat all together....

I never said it made any sense.  I was specifically talking about a company coming up with a product to sell that reminds parents about their kids so I don't really understand why my post was quoted 

[Word Nerd]

But how many kids are prevented from drowning due to locks and alarms?  Just because there isn't a solution that would prevent this 100% of the time doesn't mean it's not worth trying to find a way to reduce these deaths.

 

I don't think anyone is saying it's not worth trying to find a way to reduce these deaths, but the solution shouldn't cause more problems or make vehicles outrageously expensive. It's still rare for a child to die in a hot car.

 

It seems to me that there could be unintended consequences of a device that would automatically "Start the car, activate the climate control system in order to maintain a habitable environment." 

[SKL]

I don't think anyone is saying it's not worth trying to find a way to reduce these deaths, but the solution shouldn't cause more problems or make vehicles outrageously expensive. It's still rare for a child to die in a hot car.

 

It seems to me that there could be unintended consequences of a device that would automatically "Start the car, activate the climate control system in order to maintain a habitable environment." 

 

RIght.  Some of the key reasons for the hot car deaths are safety-related.  Like kids in car seats not being allowed in the front seat any more, thanks partly to passenger side air bags, which were installed in our cars without our even asking for them.  And "security" features such as door locks that cannot be unlocked by a child in a car.  A lot of things done in the name of "safety" are not fully thought through.

[Moxie]

RIght. Some of the key reasons for the hot car deaths are safety-related. Like kids in car seats not being allowed in the front seat any more, thanks partly to passenger side air bags, which were installed in our cars without our even asking for them. And "security" features such as door locks that cannot be unlocked by a child in a car. A lot of things done in the name of "safety" are not fully thought through.

And then pushed through legislation to be made mandatory so a political can pat himself on the back.

 

A solution to the problem would be mom texting dad at 9:00 "drop off go ok?".

[BatmansWife]

From one of the websites linked at the petition:

 

"This occupant detection system should be mandatory on every Van, Mini-van, SUV, and CUV that is sold. Bonus points for manufacturers who equip every one of their vehicles with it."

 

I don't know that this is the answer.  But I still encourage anyone reading this to sign the petition, which is trying to do something about it.  If it raises awareness and something like this would eventually become mandatory then it would be worth it if it saves even one child's life. 

 

The site that I initially read this at said that the number one reason this ends up happening is that people think it could never happen to them...that they would never forget their child.  But it isn't just leaving and forgetting your child in the car.  There are many cases were kids get into the car by themselves and the parent doesn't even know.  What about grandparents or babysitters...in some cases even the father (who may not ordinarily be watching the child)...will they be as conscientious as you?  It could happen to even the most responsible person.  By clicking on these pictures you can read the stories.

[SKL]

They used to make beepers go off if you didn't fasten your seat belt fast enough.  Most people found them annoying and disconnected them.  That is what would happen to a mandatory "occupant detection system" unless it was extremely accurate.  What if you left your groceries on the back seat while you stopped for another errand?  What if you intentionally left your 13yo in the car so she could finish her novel?  What if you were taking a nap back there at a rest stop so you wouldn't fall asleep driving during a long trip?

[BatmansWife]

I have a third grader and a fifth grader.  I find myself looking over my shoulder and weighing the possible repercussions every time I let them stay in the car instead of come in somewhere with me (small town grocery store, post office, etc).  It's ridiculous.

 

They can ride their bikes a mile down our dirt road alone, wander around the open concept middle school (meaning my 5th grader transitions between buildings...alone) and go to camp which involves a whole week of loosely supervised by teenagers afternoons but can't be trusted to open the door of the car and walk inside if they need me?

 

eta: If they are really that incapable at 8 and 10 I have failed as a parent in a much larger way than leaving them in the car to run a quick errand.

 

I don't know that this really applies to the age group you are talking about.  I leave my 10 year old in the car for a few minutes when I run in to mail something or run in to pay gas.  I think most cases of this happening are kids strapped in car seats that can't get out by themselves....and the parent is inside for a longer time period (at work as opposed to running in to pay for gas).  And there are some cases where kids climb into the car on their own and simply fall asleep. 

 

[SKL]

Then again, why can't they come in with you?

 

I wouldn't ding a person for that.  I'm just not understanding why it's such a problem to have them come in.

 

The question is, whose business is it to decide?  Why should anyone have a right to tell me where my kids have to be at any given moment? 

[vonfirmath]

From one of the websites linked at the petition:

 

"This occupant detection system should be mandatory on every Van, Mini-van, SUV, and CUV that is sold. Bonus points for manufacturers who equip every one of their vehicles with it."

 

I don't know that this is the answer.  But I still encourage anyone reading this to sign the petition, which is trying to do something about it.  If it raises awareness and something like this would eventually become mandatory then it would be worth it if it saves even one child's life.

 

Sorry. Some of the worst excesses of government was thinking that doing SOMETHING was better than doing nothing. And "if it saved even one person's life" it's worth it.

 

A lot of stuff would save one person's lfie.

 

As someone mentioned before -- making it illegal to transport a child by car would save even MORE lives than this expensive, just-waiting-to-fail electronic system. But no one would suggest that is actually something government should do.

 

[marbel]

Then again, why can't they come in with you?

 

I wouldn't ding a person for that.  I'm just not understanding why it's such a problem to have them come in.

 

Because they don't want to go in?    Because it might be quicker and easier to get the errand run without having to drag the kids in?

[marbel]

Honest, I don't care either way, but I can't imagine most 8 and 10 year olds being incredibly difficult to "drag in".  I'd understand that with a person who had babies and toddlers before I'd understand that with 8 and 10 year olds.

 

LOL.  Maybe your kids are more compliant than mine.  :lol:   One of my kids hated going into the store.  As soon as he was old enough to leave in the car, I was happy to do it.

 

Of course by that time he was old enough to get out of the car if necessary. 

[BatmansWife]

Sorry. Some of the worst excesses of government was thinking that doing SOMETHING was better than doing nothing. And "if it saved even one person's life" it's worth it.

 

A lot of stuff would save one person's lfie.

 

As someone mentioned before -- making it illegal to transport a child by car would save even MORE lives than this expensive, just-waiting-to-fail electronic system. But no one would suggest that is actually something government should do.

 

OK. 

[SKL]

Honest, I don't care either way, but I can't imagine most 8 and 10 year olds being incredibly difficult to "drag in".  I'd understand that with a person who had babies and toddlers before I'd understand that with 8 and 10 year olds.

 

They tend to make the stop longer because they want to look at this or that, the strategically-placed goodies make them suddenly hungry, etc.  Besides, they have short legs and can't walk as fast if we're in a true hurry.  Even the time it takes to get in and out of the seat belts / car adds up when you're in a true hurry.

Of course this is where someone will chime in with "then you should plan better so you are never in such a hurry."  Very helpful for sure.

 

Sometimes they are barefoot or muddy or injured, or in the middle of eating their drive-thru burger in advance of the gymnastics class you're running late for.  Then there was that time when my sick 5yo had puked on herself in the car, on the way to dropping her sister off at school.

 

I don't think anyone said it is "incredibly difficult" to take a school-aged kid into a store.  But just because it isn't borderline impossible does not mean it is the best choice or the only acceptable choice.

 

[SKL]

I dunno.  I sat in the car last Sunday because I was early somewhere.  After a few minutes I had to turn the car on with the air because it became so uncomfortable.  It's surprising how quickly that can happen.  The car is like an oven.

 

I was waiting for my kids one day and had a similar experience.  Then I rolled down a window on each side and it was fine.

 

Of course here is where someone will chime in with "but someone will steal your kids if the windows are rolled down."  Sigh.

 

[celticmom]

I would love some sort of temperature alert for the backseat because I live in a very hot area and a few times when dd was little she had gotten hot in the backseat(while I was driving on a trip) while the driver's seat was still comfortable.

[Mandy in TN]

I don't leave my youngest in the car and he is 11yo. I don't consider myself a bad parent or hovering parent, but he is still under 4.5' tall and only weighs 55lbs. I think TN state law says children under 7 or 8 must have someone 13 or older in the vehicle with them. Either way the keys can not be left in the vehicle.

 

At his size, I would be concerned that a police officer would think he was under the age requirement. I wouldn't want to leave the windows down, because I would be concerned about kidnapping. It is way to hot here in the summer to leave him in the car with the windows up and the car off. He goes wherever I go. I can't imagine leaving him in the car summer or otherwise. He is a child not a dog. (Although I must say, I am not thrilled about leaving my dog in the vehicle even to hop out and run to he bathroom when on car trips.)

 

Mandy

[Ellie]

People are stupid, and I do not understand what they are thinking to leave children in cars on hot days (or at all, frankly).

 

But I am not willing to sign a petition to get the federal government to get involved with what is a local issue.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

The question is, whose business is it to decide?  Why should anyone have a right to tell me where my kids have to be at any given moment? 

 

 

I don't think it's about telling you where your kids have to be, but rather that an adult should be with them if they're too young to be alone.  If a child is young enough to still be in a carseat, should they really be left alone in a car???

 

The original post wasn't about 8 & 10 year olds being left in cars anyway.

[Farrar]

Mostly I'm just sick of the holier than thou rhetoric about it.  Also, I hate that as a result of all the rhetoric, I can't leave my nine year olds in the car ever, regardless of the circumstances in terms of time and heat and so forth.

 

That said, one of the devices I saw was very simple and on a mass scale would probably be literally pennies to the car manufacturers. Yes, some people will disable them or not use them, but I think that's not a good argument for not trying.  I mean, not everyone will wear bike helmets.  Does that mean no one should?

[Incognito]

I recently read about a campaign to always put your left shoe with your baby - that seems like a great idea.  Free and effective.

[busymama7]

I recently read about a campaign to always put your left shoe with your baby - that seems like a great idea. Free and effective.

I saw that too but here the pavement is burning hot.(in the summer) No way to walk around to get in the drivers side. There are places where the frozen icy ground wouldn't allow for it either. Sounds like a good idea though!

[aggieamy]

Then again, why can't they come in with you?

 

I wouldn't ding a person for that.  I'm just not understanding why it's such a problem to have them come in.

 

Because at 10 years old she's 5 feet tall and 100 pounds.  I can't put her in the cart and push her around anymore so she can read while I grocery shop.  It's her or food in the cart, not both.  In the car she can happily sit and read while I get groceries.  I do make her sit in the front seat though and leave the car running.  Nobody's ever hassled her but at her size and sitting in the front seat she looks like a smallish woman or at least a teenager.  

[Slache]

I saw that too but here the pavement is burning hot.(in the summer) No way to walk around to get in the drivers side. There are places where the frozen icy ground wouldn't allow for it either. Sounds like a good idea though!

A purse would work too.

 

I imagine sometime in the near future some company will come out with something like you talk about.  My only thought is, will parents really pay for it though?  I can't imagine a parent ever saying, "Yeah, I do think I'll forget my kid at some point in time so I should get this."  Most people would assume they would NEVER do it themselves but of course other parents need such devices. Does that make sense?

Yes. But I don't think it should be mandatory. It was my decision to get a motion sensor monitor, and it should be my decision to get XYZ. I don't think I could leave my kids in the car. I'm too conscious of them. I would, however, spend the money on a device to be sure that I don't.