Are there any Lutherans here? I have some ?s

[Bensmom]

Just as background: For several years, my family has worshiped and been very involved in a Disciples of Christ church. We feel like theologically it is a good fit for us, but there have been several stressful issues that have brought us to the place where we are searching for a new church home. This is a small town and we are very limited in our options.

 

I know nothing about the Lutheran denomination. Could someone please offer a basic description of theology and worship? Is there a website I should visit to learn more? I didn't see an "ask a Lutheran" discussion. If there is one, could someone point me in that direction?

[Catwoman]

Are you posting from an iPad?

 

I'm just asking because it looks like your spellcheck thing keeps changing Lutheran to Luthern. :)

 

My iPad is always rewriting stuff for me!

[Starr]

There are several *branches* of the Lutheran church. What else is in their name? ELCA? 

[Bensmom]

Yep. iPad :)

Missouri?

[SunnyDays]

You're probably looking at Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod (LCMS).  Here's their website with a brief overview:

 

http://www.lcms.org/belief-and-practice

 

We attend an ELCA church, so I don't know much in the way of specifics of the church youre considering... perhaps others will??

 

[J-rap]

I grew up in the Lutheran Church, and was in it until about 10 years ago.  (I still really like a lot of things about it;  we didn't leave it because of any major disagreements.)  It has a lot of traditions and a very structured service, like the Catholic church, but its theology seems a lot simpler.   They boil it down more to the basics.  Traditionally, Lutherans believe the Bible is the only divinely inspired book.  They believe in the Trinity, and confess the Nicene Creed.  (You can look that up.)  Children go through confirmation classes usually for a couple years, around 8th or 9th grade, and receive a First Communion after that.  They have infant baptism.

 

The Lutheran Church is in the midst of a lot of changes.  There is huge range of communities within the Lutheran Church.  I believe a majority of the ELCA churches are moving toward a far more liberal view of faith and what is acceptable.  I know of quite a few Lutherans, personally (a couple of them pastors), who believe that you can believe almost anything and still attend their church.  It tends to be a safe place for people who want to keep their faith traditions but aren't quite sure what they believe.  At the same time, I know of many Lutherans who take their faith very, very seriously, and are VERY sure about what they believe.  Some congregations are very liberal and some are much more conservative.  I know of some Lutheran Churches that are more like a traditional Bible-type church.  So, you can see there is a huge span that really varies a lot from church to church.  But in general, it is more of a middle-of-the-road congregation as far as liberal or conservative views.  In my experience, they have a more open view on interpreting the Bible.  I rarely met anyone who believed in the Young Earth theory in the Lutheran Church.

 

The Missouri Lutheran branch is more traditional and conservative than the ELCA, but is also more legalistic, from what I have heard.  (I've never attended one.)

 

One thing that always stood out (to me) at the various Lutheran congregations that I've attended is that they don't discuss the Holy Spirit much.  They do believe in the Holy Spirit, but rarely address it. 

 

I love a lot of the church-year traditions within the Lutheran Church, like Lent, Advent, etc.  I miss a lot of that at the church I'm at now!

 

[Dana]

Missouri Synod is very conservative.

They don't ordain women.

 

Both my folks are ELCA ministers.

[Katy]

I went to all three major types of Lutheran churches as a child.  Missouri Synod was middle of the road (Wisconsin most conservative, ELCA very liberal).  Last I knew they still didn't allow female pastors or for women to teach adult males in Sunday school classes. I remember having a discussion with our pastor at one point when I was about 15 and someone was attending that had committed suicide that they had recently changed their minds and allowed to do funerals for a suicide victim and buried people in church cemetaries again.  Apparently when he went through seminary it was considered an unforgivable sin, but when neuroscience came out that depression was a brain imbalance they changed their minds.

 

If you're curious I'd just visit the church.  I would imagine a lot of their teachings have changed since I was in high school.  Lutherans univerally require at a very minimum a graduate degree in theology so I'm sure at least one pastor at the church would love to talk about the nuances of theology with you.

[MrsMommy]

Lifelong Missouri-Synod Lutheran here...I was a church professional pre-children.

 

Lutherans profess the three creeds, and our basic beliefs can be found in Luther's Small Catechism. We believe in infant baptism. Communion policies can vary a bit from church to church, but in the Missouri Synod, you're supposed to speak to the pastor before you receive the Sacrament if you're a visitor...it's then up to him to decide if he'll administer the Sacrament or give you a blessing. You can find a lot of difference from church to church as far as type of worship, but I prefer the traditional liturgy. Each synod has a website; I'd of course recommend lcms.org

[QueenCat]

I grew up in the Lutheran Church, and was in it until about 10 years ago.  (I still really like a lot of things about it;  we didn't leave it because of any major disagreements.)  It has a lot of traditions and a very structured service, like the Catholic church, but its theology seems a lot simpler.   They boil it down more to the basics.  Traditionally, Lutherans believe the Bible is the only divinely inspired book.  They believe in the Trinity, and confess the Nicene Creed.  (You can look that up.)  Children go through confirmation classes usually for a couple years, around 8th or 9th grade, and receive a First Communion after that.  They have infant baptism.

 

Hmmm..... grew up Lutheran. LCA then ELCA. We had First Communion around the age of 6, years before Confirmation. Current ELCA Lutheran family members have expressed similar experiences in the past few years.

[HSMWB]

In my experience many Lutheran churches ELCA and MS - have started having first communion classes separate from confirmation classes and letting 3/4th graders take those classes.  And if you have any issues/questions/concerns in this area I would suggest talking with the pastor.  Our ELCA church even lets two young kids take it as a special circumstance.

 

There was a couple of the ask a Lutheran threads, one serious, one quite tongue-in-cheek if I remember correctly.  I thought it was hilarious. I will see if I can find those for you.

[J-rap]

Hmmm..... grew up Lutheran. LCA then ELCA. We had First Communion around the age of 6, years before Confirmation. Current ELCA Lutheran family members have expressed similar experiences in the past few years.

 

Gosh, maybe you're right.  I was thinking we had first communion only after we finished confirmation classes.  But, maybe we had it before. (That was over 35 years ago!)   I know I was quite a bit older than 6 though for my first communion.   I would have been at least 12.  Must be something each church can decide.

 

The (ELCA) church does seem to be slowly changing and becoming less traditional.  One Lutheran church in our town allows babies to take communion!  I'm not even sure how they would do that...

[milovany]

One Lutheran church in our town allows babies to take communion!  I'm not even sure how they would do that...

 

Baptized infants are communed in the Orthodox church .... the priest is just very careful and takes his time.  It's a beautiful thing to see. The infant is brought to the chalice by a parent or godparent, held in a cradle hold perhaps, and then the priest puts a tiny bit of the wine-soaked bread (which is now the Body and Blood of Christ) in his mouth with a spoon.  They watch closely to see if any comes back out of the mouth, but usually the child just receives what is offered.

 

Although once in awhile you might get a two year old bloke who refuses to open his mouth, shaking his head from side to side.  ;)

 

Just as an explanatory note: We do this because we consider the child -- who is traditionally baptized at about 40 days -- to be a full member of the Church; we don't have a later confirmation or age of reason decision, etc.

 

[SKL]

I was educated in LCMS (thru 7th grade) and now attend LCMS.  That is true that they don't do communion until confirmation (end of 8th grade).  I am not a member as I do not agree with part of the oath, but I asked about communion because my kids and I were the only people not going forward.  I thought, maybe nowadays everyone is supposed to go.  (As a kid, it was only for confirmed members.)  The pastor said I should read the church's blurb about communion and make my own decision.  So we go up now.  I take the wafer and wine, the kids get a "blessing" by the pastor.

 

I enjoy the traditional, structured church services even if I don't always agree with the sermon.  The congegation participates as directed, but there is no unscripted shouting of "Amen" and "Hallelujah" as I've seen in some other churches.

 

To me, the main difference between the Lutheran and Catholic doctrine is that Lutherans don't believe in praying to anyone but the triune God.  No saints, no Mother Mary.  Lutherans are also rather iconoclastic; they don't have a lot of statues or colorful pictures around the church, just some stained glass windows and relatively muted decorations.

 

The role of women has increased over the years.  I don't see them becoming pastors, but at least they let girls/women be acolytes, ushers, readers, etc.  In my church, women have taught mixed gender adult Sunday School classes (unlike what someone mentioned above).

 

I notice that some LCMS members are very sure of themselves, and sure that those whose faith is different are wrong.  That is something I dislike, but not everyone is like that.  I think that in every church, there is a large % of people who are really unsure of a lot of the teachings.  But they attend for various reasons.

[QueenCat]

To me, the main difference between the Lutheran and Catholic doctrine is that Lutherans don't believe in praying to anyone but the triune God.  No saints, no Mother Mary.  Lutherans are also rather iconoclastic; they don't have a lot of statues or colorful pictures around the church, just some stained glass windows and relatively muted decorations.

 

The role of women has increased over the years.  I don't see them becoming pastors, but at least they let girls/women be acolytes, ushers, readers, etc.  In my church, women have taught mixed gender adult Sunday School classes (unlike what someone mentioned above).

 

I notice that some LCMS members are very sure of themselves, and sure that those whose faith is different are wrong.  That is something I dislike, but not everyone is like that.  I think that in every church, there is a large % of people who are really unsure of a lot of the teachings.  But they attend for various reasons.

 

The women's role is different between the Lutheran groups. Women in the ELCA can become ordained pastors. Pretty sure Catholics pray through Mary and the other saints, much like we ask others to pray for our concerns, not to them but one of our Catholic friends can clarify that point.

 

[TracyP]

The decision to offer communion before confirmation is decided on a church by church basis. As of right now we wait until after confirmation (7th grade here), but the pastor would like to offer it sooner. Officially communion is closed - only offered to LCMS members and Wisconsin Lutherans (although Wisconsins won't allow LCMS partake of their communion) - however, I have seen non members take communion. I'm not sure if they just didn't know better or if the pastor discussed their beliefs and okayed it. This may also vary by church.

[StaceyinLA]

This is a great discussion for me. I have been seriously struggling for years to find somewhere I feel like I belong. I was raised Catholic, became Protestant (Baptist), and have been back to reading a lot about Catholicism and truly appreciating it. I am still not 100% that it is THE fit for me, but I know I'm much closer to Catholic than Baptist at this point.

 

I have been looking at Episcopalian, but the more conservative Lutheran churches may be a good fit.

 

Can anyone explain the differences between Episcopalian and Lutheran?

[imagine.more]

Gosh, maybe you're right.  I was thinking we had first communion only after we finished confirmation classes.  But, maybe we had it before. (That was over 35 years ago!)   I know I was quite a bit older than 6 though for my first communion.   I would have been at least 12.  Must be something each church can decide.

 

The (ELCA) church does seem to be slowly changing and becoming less traditional.  One Lutheran church in our town allows babies to take communion!  I'm not even sure how they would do that...

 

Actually, communing babies is done usually by the more traditional Lutherans, like the high-church ones like my husband....who would absolutely commune infants if his congregation could accept it. The more liberal churches tend to just do communion at the standard 7-8 years old and some conservative but not traditional churches do it at 6th-8th grade even. 

 

But yes, basically if you read the Small Catechism you'll have a good basis on what Lutherans believe. That's what my husband uses in teaching confirmation class. 

 

ELCA is extremely liberal...but depending on where you attend they can be more or less so. If you live in a more republican area you'll find slightly more conservative values but still pretty liberal theology in my experience. ELCA has open communion. They are the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. and grew out of the LCA I think about 40-50 years ago?

 

LCMS is much more conservative, traditional Lutheran. IMO they stick more closely to Luther's beliefs. Like others said, I'm fairly certain LCMS has closed communion but switching membership to LCMS is fairly easy. 

 

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) is VERY conservative. They are a fairly small denomination currently. 

 

North American Lutheran Church (NALC) is *I think* the newest denomination that grew out of pastors and congregations who were concerned that the ELCA was straying too far from traditional Christianity and from unity with the worldwide Christian Church. 

[imagine.more]

This is a great discussion for me. I have been seriously struggling for years to find somewhere I feel like I belong. I was raised Catholic, became Protestant (Baptist), and have been back to reading a lot about Catholicism and truly appreciating it. I am still not 100% that it is THE fit for me, but I know I'm much closer to Catholic than Baptist at this point.

 

I have been looking at Episcopalian, but the more conservative Lutheran churches may be a good fit.

 

Can anyone explain the differences between Episcopalian and Lutheran?

 

The Episcopal Church grounds their beliefs in the Book of Common Prayer (which is their formula for worship) and the traditions of their Bishops (hence Episcopalian name), and Lutherans have the Book of Concord. Of course both hold the Bible in common as primary. 

 

Episcopals have 2 Sacraments (baptism and communion) and 5 Sacramental Rites (the other 5 Sacraments the Catholic Church has) and Lutherans only have 2 Sacraments (baptism and communion) and no explicit Sacramental Rites. 

 

Lutheran churches see the gathering of the people of God as the authority. Episcopals see the office of the Bishop as the authority. So one is democratic, one is more top-down. Lutherans can literally vote on doctrine (this one realization that sent me running back to the Catholic Church in the middle of DH's seminary studies, lol!). The Episcopal church tends to be more able to make changes quicker because of that top-down structure. But I think (at least from what I've seen) that Lutheran churches can vary a lot more from one area to another. 

 

The Lutheran and Episcopal Churches (well, at least the ELCA and the Episcopal Church) are in full communion with one another. So they really are incredibly similar. Lots of families switch attendance between the two if they end up in an area without many churches of their own Lutheran or Episcopal Church. 

[imagine.more]

The women's role is different between the Lutheran groups. Women in the ELCA can become ordained pastors. Pretty sure Catholics pray through Mary and the other saints, much like we ask others to pray for our concerns, not to them but one of our Catholic friends can clarify that point.

 

 

(putting on ELCA pastor's wife hat)  Yes in the ELCA women can be ordained pastors and bishops...the current presiding bishop is female. I believe the ELCA and NALC are alone in this among Lutherans but since the ELCA is the biggest Lutheran denomination it's become almost more common to allow women pastors than not even though other denominations completely prohibit it. So it very much depends on who you ask what women's roles are in the church.

 

(putting on Catholic hat) yes, prayers 'to' saints and Mary are intercessory prayers, not worshipping prayers. Catholics do not worship anyone but the triune God. But we do ask saints to pray for our concerns just like we would ask a friend to pray for us. The thought is they are holy and in heaven close to God, therefore clearly good people to ask to pray for you :) Kind of like you might ask for the prayers of a pastor or devout friend more often. 

[mom2jjka]

There are also the WELS Lutherans (Wisconsin synod) who tend to be the most conservative of the bunch.

Here is s link that explains our doctrinal beliefs and answers other Q & A's

 

http://www.wels.net/what-we-believe

[J-rap]

Actually, communing babies is done usually by the more traditional Lutherans, like the high-church ones like my husband....who would absolutely commune infants if his congregation could accept it. The more liberal churches tend to just do communion at the standard 7-8 years old and some conservative but not traditional churches do it at 6th-8th grade even. 

 

But yes, basically if you read the Small Catechism you'll have a good basis on what Lutherans believe. That's what my husband uses in teaching confirmation class. 

 

ELCA is extremely liberal...but depending on where you attend they can be more or less so. If you live in a more republican area you'll find slightly more conservative values but still pretty liberal theology in my experience. ELCA has open communion. They are the largest Lutheran denomination in the U.S. and grew out of the LCA I think about 40-50 years ago?

 

LCMS is much more conservative, traditional Lutheran. IMO they stick more closely to Luther's beliefs. Like others said, I'm fairly certain LCMS has closed communion but switching membership to LCMS is fairly easy. 

 

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) is VERY conservative. They are a fairly small denomination currently. 

 

North American Lutheran Church (NALC) is *I think* the newest denomination that grew out of pastors and congregations who were concerned that the ELCA was straying too far from traditional Christianity and from unity with the worldwide Christian Church. 

 

That's interesting!  (about infant communion)  I had never heard of that before, until one Lutheran church in town decided on it.  This is considered the "very liberal" Lutheran church in town. 

 

Though I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or another, it does confuse me a little because in the Bible, Paul says, "Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup," which seems to me to imply that you must be old enough to examine yourself and think about it.

[Guest]

Though I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or another, it does confuse me a little because in the Bible, Paul says, "Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup," which seems to me to imply that you must be old enough to examine yourself and think about it.

 

On this last part, one of the defenses of infant/child communion is the "age of reason" argument...  I'm not saying I buy it, just that I have heard it.  

 

The problem that will arise with the "age of reason" argument is when it butts up against the doctrine of Original Sin, which most Protestants hold to.  If a baby/child is tainted with "original sin" then it doesn't matter whether they can be accountable for it or not and should therefore not be communed.  The converse follows--if they are NOT tainted, but can only sin as "reasonable" (age of reason) humans, then they should be communed until then.  

 

IF the issue of being a member of the church is not an issue.  

 

(I'm Orthodox but was not always so, and have had to wrestle through this one myself...)

[Mama Geek]

I have been to many LCMS churches in different parts of the country.  Very few of them had close communion.  My understanding is that is much more common the closer to you get to Minnesota.

[Jerico]

We are presbyterians but give our children communion- youngest was 6 months when we started. Its called paedocommunion. It seemed silly to us to baptise our babies but then not offer them communion. They are our covenant children and we raise them in the faith. I didn't know some Lutheran did it. Our church is extremely conservative though.