Commas in a series

[MiMi 4under3]

DC just finished FLL3 where they were taught to put a comma after each item in a series.

Lesson 62: I mix flour, sugar, butter, vanilla, and eggs.

 

 

DC also began WWE3. 

Week 2, Day 2 Dictation: ....any bumpkins who lived mostly on squirrels, rabbits, deer and wild turkeys....

 

It says to explain that items in a list can be separated either by conjunctions or by commas. It is not neccessary to use both.

 

Is this a personal preference and both ways are correct?

[maize]

Both are correct. There is a recent trend away from the comma before and, that comma has its own name which I can't remember right now, but either way is correct.

[EKS]

It's called the serial comma (and also the Oxford comma).  Either way is correct, but I absolutely can't stand it when it's not used.

[maize]

Yes, Oxford comma is the name I was trying to remember http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

[MiMi 4under3]

It's called the serial comma (and also the Oxford comma).  Either way is correct, but I absolutely can't stand it when it's not used.

 

I can't stand it either!

 

I'm glad it's still "correct."  :laugh:

[BrookValley.]

Well, I'm only one lowly technical writer/editor, but if I have anything to do with it, the Oxford comma isn't going ANYWHERE! lol.

 

(Unless I'm editing for a UK audience. Then I'll make an exception.)

[maize]

I like the comma too. A comma adds a pause and seems to put all items in a list on equal footing.

[ErinE]

The benefits of using the Oxford comma

 

http://www.theparacast.com/forum/data/attachments/2/2590-0524e0455e690e7ff7ed88445a6dc5a9.jpg

[Plink]

Oxford comma forever!!!

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker and a herpetologist.  

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker, and a herpetologist. 

 

Not the same.  

[IsabelC]

I use it or not, depending on how I want the sentence to flow.

 

I couldn't care less (or, for you strange Americans who say the opposite of what you mean, I could care less) whether or not other people use it. I think it is OK to have some topics about which one has no passionate feelings.

[silver]

One of my favorite examples of a sentence that really should have had an Oxford comma:
image can be found at the end of this blog post:

http://chasemarch.com/2011/07/karma-for-comma.html

[Laura Corin]

Oxford comma forever!!!

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker and a herpetologist.  

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker, and a herpetologist. 

 

Not the same.  

 

The Oxford comma is always used when there is the possibility of ambiguity, as in this case, even by those who habitually avoid it.

 

L

[Ellie]

Is this a personal preference and both ways are correct?

 

It is a personal preference. Both ways are correct.

 

I graduated from high school in 1969, with two years of typing and two years of shorthand, which means I had *lots* of instruction in the correct use of punctuation and whatnot. We learned *not* to use the Oxford comma (not that it was called that).

 

I use it only if it makes more sense. For example, I wouldn't use it in either of the the sentences you quoted, because the items in the series are single items. I would probably use it if the items were something compound, as in, "We had cinnamon-raisin toast, orange juice, and bacon and eggs for breakfast."

[sbgrace]

Unless needed for clarity, I personally don't like its use. I didn't use it in my own writing, and am pretty certain I was taught not to use it. I taught my boys according to my preference and experience.

 

Threads like this one made me aware that more people seem to expect its use than not.

 

So I switched, and now teach my boys to include it.

[Hunter]

I wish this were the only conflict in different styles of punctuation. It makes it so hard to combine curricula written with different styles.

[Farrar]

I saw a really good infographic image type thing about it recently that summed it up nicely.  Basically showing why it should be used sometimes and not others.  But drat it all, I couldn't find it.

 

The classic example of why it might be needed is the book dedication (which I think is made up): "I'd like to dedicate this book to my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

[Snow]

I was taught they were both acceptable but have always left it off. Considering some of the examples given, I may have to reconsider!

 

I'm sure grammar girl probably has a special section dedicated to this somewhere.

[Delirium]

I saw a really good infographic image type thing about it recently that summed it up nicely.  Basically showing why it should be used sometimes and not others.  But drat it all, I couldn't find it.

 

The classic example of why it might be needed is the book dedication (which I think is made up): "I'd like to dedicate this book to my parents, Ayn Rand and God."

 

This one?

http://dailyinfographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/oxford-comma.jpg

[kiwik]

I would probably get round that by putting, "I would like to thank God, Ayn Rand and my parents".

 

No Oxford comma and no ambiguity.

 

No idea who Ayn Rand is though.

[Farrar]

This one?

http://dailyinfographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/oxford-comma.jpg

No, I found that one. It's useful too. This one was funny because it had illustrations of the ambiguities. But then presented why sometimes it's just extra punctuation for no reason as well.

[Kuovonne]

Oxford comma forever!!!

I prefer the Oxford comma as well. However it doesn't always prevent ambiguity.

The lack of an Oxford comma doesn't always preventt ambiguity either.

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker and a herpetologist.

Is she in love with three people? (series without an Oxford comma)

Or is she in love with one person who does two things? (an appositive instead of a series)

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, an amateur baker, and a herpetologist.

Is she in love with three people? (series with an Oxford comma)

Is she in love with two people, the first of which is a baker? (baker as an appositive)

 

We need more context (or separate sentences).

[boscopup]

Oxford comma fan here, but I also try to make sentences not ambiguous. Sometimes rewording is necessary.

[Walking-Iris]

I remember that WWE lesson, and other dictations that were similar. The thing that bothers me about dictation is the stylistic preferences of the author. 

 

It's been frustrating for my ds at times to be taught one thing in grammar books, and yet be presented with something else in dictation. There have been times he's written a passage using completely different punctuation than the original, and yet his was technically correct as well. 

 

I prefer the Oxford comma in a series. 

 

But when using literature as copywork and dictation, these ambiguities need to be discussed. 

 

 

[Haiku]

Long live the Oxford Comma!!

[SwallowTail]

  I love the Oxford comma. I also love double spaces after a period. I am ancient.

[MiMi 4under3]

  I love the Oxford comma. I also love double spaces after a period. I am ancient.

 

 Me too!!

[hauntedzeppelin]

I learned to write with the Oxford comma. I've continued to use it because it reduces my think time while writing since I don't have to decide if the list is ambiguous enough to need it.

[Reefgazer]

I love the Oxford comma, but both are correct.  A journalist friend of mine told me the lack of a comma is more the convention in journalism/newspaper writing (for space-conserving reasons).

[Harriet Vane]

I am a firm supporter of the Oxford comma.

 

Here's a funny picture why:

 

http://www.verbicidemagazine.com/2012/01/24/eggs-toast-and-orange-juice-oxford-comma/

[hollyhock]

Thanks for this thread! I've always wondered this. I was taught not to use the Oxford comma (in Canada) but most of my kids' curriculum teaches the opposite.

[Julie in GA]

The Oxford comma is always used when there is the possibility of ambiguity, as in this case, even by those who habitually avoid it.

 

L

 

The example (sentence about the teacher) doesn't really fit the "comma in a series" type, because "teacher" is being modified by the other two items, and isn't one of the list items itself.  With that sentence, there is only  one correct way to punctuate it -- without the comma. Does that make sense?

[elliotterae]

I was taught both ways are correct. My thought is that if it is always correct to have it but sometimes it's correct to not use it. Why not just use it? Very little effort and ink are wasted on this poor tiny comma. 

Also most times I'm making a list or series, my biggest or main item is the final.

"We didn't make it to the reunion because it was calling for rain, Eric took a nap, and I went in to labor."

 

I usually want that extra pause from the last comma to set of my "AND".

[Laura Corin]

The example (sentence about the teacher) doesn't really fit the "comma in a series" type, because "teacher" is being modified by the other two items, and isn't one of the list items itself.  With that sentence, there is only  one correct way to punctuate it -- without the comma. Does that make sense?

 

I agree that it's not a simple example.  If I were writing that sentence, I'd actually use a colon for clarity or recast it:

 

My sister is in love with her teacher: an amateur baker and a herpetologist.  

 

Or

 

My sister is in love with her teacher, who is an amateur baker and a herpetologist.  

 

A sentence where I would (unusually) use an Oxford comma would be:

 

She plans to serve wine, gin and tonics, and beer.

 

L

[IsabelC]

See, I'd just serve wine, beer and gin and tonics.  That's clear enough. Nobody thinks there's a drink called 'beer and gin and tonics'.

 

Sorry, but that really does sound as though 'gin' and 'tonics' are two separate drinks. Even though most English speakers would be aware that 'gin and tonic' is one drink, it still sounds awkward. Clearly, the correct solution is to serve only champagne and be done with it ;)

[Walking-Iris]

See, I'd just serve wine, beer and gin and tonics.  That's clear enough. Nobody thinks there's a drink called 'beer and gin and tonics'.

Too many "ands" without a comma to make it less clunky.

 

I would write-

 

I plan on serving gin and tonics, beer, and wine. 

 

Gin and tonics is a clunky phrase, so putting it at the beginning makes that sentence flow better IMHO. 

 

Even while saying that list out loud, I have a natural pause between the items. Saying "wine, beer and gin and tonics" without a natural pause where a comma would be seems a bit rushed.