How do you think we should fix the health care problem in the US?

[Jugglin'5]

Man, you are one tough lady. You are my hero!:grouphug:

 

Well, I have multiple sclerosis, 1 son w/ type1 diabetes, 1 son with a rare degenerative disorder who is profoundly disabled and medically fragile, and 1 son who was adopted and born 25 weeks premature w/ developmental disabilities and severe lung disease. My husband has stayed with the same company for our children's lives. We have 80/20 insurance and plan our budget to pay the maximum family deductible every year. We pay out the $10,000 by March every year! It's part of our budget, we know it's coming and can't get out of it. We are solidly middle class - not upper middle. We plan for this. We also pay out ourselves for equipment our insurance doesn't cover - $20,000 for a used wheelchair van, a former special ed public school van used to for transport we found on Ebay!

 

That said, I think there should be health insurance co ops so people aren't dependent on their place of employment for insurance. They can switch jobs easily, go into business for themselves, work for very small businesses etc. I'm not up on the debates, so I don't know if anyone has ever talked about this idea or the pros and cons?!!

 

After reading some replies, there are many disorders that aren't fixable by lifestyle choices - look at our families list of ailments. Also, our adopted son was fully medicaid as a baby bc of being in our home as a foster son. His medical care was exactly the same as it is now, same doctors, practices, meds, hosptitals. We live in a largish southern city. Medicaid even paid for a very expensive evaluation at a long distance teaching hospital. Seven days of tests, surgery, evaluations etc. I don't at all believe that Medicaid patients suffer care.

[Melinda]

We have had state and federal govt employee coverage and the difference is like night and day.

 

I can relate to your last paragraph. I want there to be universal coverage, but I don't want to sacrifice my family's benefits to get it!!! I feel sort of like a caricature of Marie Antoinette, "Let them have basic coverage!" while holding on to my dental and vision and inexpensive copays and inexpensive prescriptions........

 

We are in this same spot. I have a blood clotting disorder and a few other serious medical issues that have to be closely monitored and need expensive medication to manage. My husband is a fed. employee, so our benefits are excellent. I would like for everybody to have the same opportunity and coverage, but it scares me that if healthcare changes, it could be very dangerous for me if I have to wait a long time to be seen, etc.

[Jugglin'5]

I agree that it does not need to be tied to employment. But, if it is tied to the government there will be NO market forces at all at work. No one will be selective about what care they demand, because after all, it is free. So costs will rise meteorically,and the govt. will make the rules and ration the services.:eek: No thanks. Our system is not perfect, but I don't want to make it worse.

 

But I admit that there are times when that solution tempts me. I hear many different accounts of socialized medicine. Some say it is great, and then I hear about people having to come to America to get surgery done, because they will die before they get it on their country's waiting list. What if your child has a cosmetic defect, for instance a port wine stain, that causes her a lot of anxiety and grief, but some govt. bean counter says that it is not serious enough to expend taxpayer dollars on it?

 

I think that the main thing this country should do to fix healthcare is to stop tying it to emplyment. Not only is it ridiculous to portion out healthcare based on one's job, but more importantly (at least is should be to TPTB), saddling business with the responsibility for providing healthcare hampers small businesses and stifles entreprenourship. I am a liberal, but honestly I am shocked that fiscal conservatives aren't jumping up and down screaming for nationalized healthcare simply because of the impact it would have on the economy. Can you imagine what small businesses could do with all the capital that is currently siphoned off to pay for healthcare? My husband's company pays $800 a month for each employee's health insurance, and that is HALF of the fee. We are saddled with the other $800. Also, my husband is unable to pursue his desire to open a small business because, due to some chronic health issues in our family, no one would cover us (at least not at any rate we could afford ... I looked into it once and one company wanted $11,000 a month to cover us!).

 

I know people love to trot out the idea of "In Sweden they pay 40% taxes to get free healthcare and I would NEVER want to pay that much in taxes!" but if you actually look at how much Americans spend out of pocket on healthcare, we might as well be taxed at 40% and get free healthcare. We'd probably end up paying less overall! And besides, when you factor in all the things like gas tax and sales tax, etc., we are generally taxed at over 40% anyway.

 

Tara

[Renee in NC]

I agree that it does not need to be tied to employment. But' date=' if it is tied to the government there will be NO market forces at all at work. No one will be selective about what care they demand, because after all, it is free. So costs will rise meteorically,and the govt. will make the rules and ration the services.:eek: No thanks. Our system is not perfect, but I don't want to make it worse.

 

[/quote']

 

That is my fear and the biggest reason that I don't know if universal health care is the right solution.

[johnandtinagilbert]

As a Canadian living in Georgia, I have some perspective on both sides of this arguement. Tara, you have hit the nail on the head.....our Income Taxes are lower in GA than they were in Canada, but Medical Insurance (If we could actually qualify for any....that's another story, due to epilepsy and Kidney disease within our family), deductables, and co-pays would eat up much more than the difference in tax savings. One major difference I see between the USA and Canada, in terms of health care expectations, is the insistance on high costing diagnostics prior to utilizing cheaper diagnsotic methods. i.e. Ultrasounds are still used frequently in Canada to diagnose soft tissue conditions...an MRI would only be used if the ultrasound was inconclusive.

That's an interesting perspective. I think *I* would prefer to have competition though. It seems like when the gov't is involved, there is a lot of running about (needlessly) from one specialist to another. Almost like medical care is too specialized?!?!

This summer I had surgery for carpal tunnel. Here were my dr. visits:

Family Doctor I think I have CTS

Neuro first visit, recommends nerve conductivity test

Family Doctor reviews recommendation

Neuro specialist for nerve conductivity test

Family Doctor to read the results and refer me to Ortho Surg.

Ortho Surg consultation

Family Doctor to review the consult

Ortho Surg to operate

Ortho follow up

Family Doctor to follow up

 

Two and a half months to take care of a problem I already knew I had and already knew what I wanted to do about it....two and a half months....TONS of gas....time off of work for dh so I could go w/o 5 kids to these appointments and b/c doctors in the area won't accept my insurance, I had to travel about 50 minutes each time to see the Ortho. I am happy to be finished with the entire process and truly thankful, but I do see this as mismanagement and this is my experience under gov't health care

[johnandtinagilbert]

Well, I have multiple sclerosis, 1 son w/ type1 diabetes, 1 son with a rare degenerative disorder who is profoundly disabled and medically fragile, and 1 son who was adopted and born 25 weeks premature w/ developmental disabilities and severe lung disease. My husband has stayed with the same company for our children's lives. We have 80/20 insurance and plan our budget to pay the maximum family deductible every year. We pay out the $10,000 by March every year! It's part of our budget, we know it's coming and can't get out of it. We are solidly middle class - not upper middle. We plan for this. We also pay out ourselves for equipment our insurance doesn't cover - $20,000 for a used wheelchair van, a former special ed public school van used to for transport we found on Ebay!

 

That said, I think there should be health insurance co ops so people aren't dependent on their place of employment for insurance. They can switch jobs easily, go into business for themselves, work for very small businesses etc. I'm not up on the debates, so I don't know if anyone has ever talked about this idea or the pros and cons?!!

 

After reading some replies, there are many disorders that aren't fixable by lifestyle choices - look at our families list of ailments. Also, our adopted son was fully medicaid as a baby bc of being in our home as a foster son. His medical care was exactly the same as it is now, same doctors, practices, meds, hosptitals. We live in a largish southern city. Medicaid even paid for a very expensive evaluation at a long distance teaching hospital. Seven days of tests, surgery, evaluations etc. I don't at all believe that Medicaid patients suffer care.

 

That is amazing testimony to living in difficult circumstances. You are on my hero list too.

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I haven't had time to read all the posts, but here is my take on it. [i just deleted half my post/rant on what I believe causes the problem]

 

How to correct it? Well, we can continue our downward evolution towards socialism and fall in step with universal healthcare/ one payer healthcare, etc. That would certainly "correct" the problem, but at a huge price. How many of us could continue to homeschool or stay in our homes if our taxes became 45% or more of our family income? I have a dear friend who is a missionary in Sweden, married to a national. She has benefited from great childbirth experiences there and good coverage for other medical issues, but nearly half of her husband's salary is taken for taxes to pay for all this healthcare (and other social programs). It is a huge blessing that her missionary salary is paid through the US and not through Sweden.

 

Otherwise, we have to privatize the whole thing. Having the government involved in setting prices for what they'll pay for procedures through medicare/medicaid affects the entire healthcare system.

 

We also need to change our views of health insurance from being an entitlement. It is insurance, like homeowners, life and car -- something you have to have but you hope you don't have to use except in an emergency.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I think that the main thing this country should do to fix healthcare is to stop tying it to emplyment. Not only is it ridiculous to portion out healthcare based on one's job, but more importantly (at least is should be to TPTB), saddling business with the responsibility for providing healthcare hampers small businesses and stifles entreprenourship. I am a liberal, but honestly I am shocked that fiscal conservatives aren't jumping up and down screaming for nationalized healthcare simply because of the impact it would have on the economy. Can you imagine what small businesses could do with all the capital that is currently siphoned off to pay for healthcare? My husband's company pays $800 a month for each employee's health insurance, and that is HALF of the fee. We are saddled with the other $800. Also, my husband is unable to pursue his desire to open a small business because, due to some chronic health issues in our family, no one would cover us (at least not at any rate we could afford ... I looked into it once and one company wanted $11,000 a month to cover us!).

 

I know people love to trot out the idea of "In Sweden they pay 40% taxes to get free healthcare and I would NEVER want to pay that much in taxes!" but if you actually look at how much Americans spend out of pocket on healthcare, we might as well be taxed at 40% and get free healthcare. We'd probably end up paying less overall! And besides, when you factor in all the things like gas tax and sales tax, etc., we are generally taxed at over 40% anyway.

 

Tara

I had never considered removing health care as a benefit. That's an interesting idea. I'd like to see if there's any research on that....

 

I'd say conservatives aren't jumping b/c they're concerned about tax increase for universal health care.

 

My thought on the end of your post is if we didn't qualify for medicaid, we would simply go without health coverage. There is no way we could afford the increase in base tax and be able to eat...seriously, in essence, if we were forced to have health care, via paying higher taxes, we would Truly G o H u n g r y. For us the high cost of health care, deductibles, etc. is not even considered, because we simply don't pay them for lack of ability. Am I making sense?

Honestly, dh and I have a monthly deductible as we qualify for "medically needy" under medicaid. I had carpal tunnel for 7 years b4 I did anything about it b/c we have to pay $500/month before our medicaid kicks in. We simply do not have that much money on a regular basis. It was tax return and stimulus package that allowed us to get the surgery. Paying any more in tax money for health insurance, it seriously just not an option for our family.

This is really a tough issue.

[TravelingChris]

While some diseases and many of the more common ones, may have a personal responisibility componenet- that doesn't apply to the problems in my family. My youngests asthma, cellulutis and anaphalactic reaction to a wasp sting has nothing to do with misbehavior. Nor is her myopia due to lifestyle issues. My older daughter's repeated dislocations of her shoulder doing such routine things like archery, swimming, and reaching are not due to misbehavior and so her surgery to correect the problem is not due to misbehavior. Her ADHD is not due to misbehavior though her behavior is worse if she is not medicated. He migraines aren't due to misbehavior either.My oldest's depression is not due to misbehavior. My inflammatory arthritis, asthma, Sjogren's Syndrome, and migraines aren't due to lifestyle choices either.

 

None of us are suffering from anything due to how we live. I know a few people who ate very well, exercised a lot, were thin, and still had high cholestrol or high blood pressure. One man rode his bike fifteen miles wach way to work, never smoked, drank moderately, was nearly a vegetarian and he had very high cholestrol. His friend who biked with him and was somewhat heavier, did not have high cholestrol.

[Cheryl in NM]

The church can't even BEGIN to help pay for healthcare for those who can't afford it.

 

When I said church I was really thinking about the big money churches. I was bookkeeper for a few smaller churches and the money they bring in is amazing. If there were someone in the church with specific needs that were very expensive the church could have a separate drive for money for them. Don't let these churches fool you, they are big business too. They should use that for the good instead of bells and whistles. I know not all churches have all the bells and whistles.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

something you have to have but you hope you don't have to use except in an emergency.

 

Well, if my daughter has a fever for 2 days, I call the doctor. They ask her symptoms, talk to the doc and if he wants to see dd, we go. I like for dd to go to the eye doctor and dentist for regular checkups too. None of these things are emergencies.

[Cheryl in NM]

One major difference I see between the USA and Canada, in terms of health care expectations, is the insistance on high costing diagnostics prior to utilizing cheaper diagnsotic methods. i.e. Ultrasounds are still used frequently in Canada to diagnose soft tissue conditions...an MRI would only be used if the ultrasound was inconclusive.

 

Is that why people come from Canada to the US for medical care?

[johnandtinagilbert]

When I said church I was really thinking about the big money churches. I was bookkeeper for a few smaller churches and the money they bring in is amazing. If there were someone in the church with specific needs that were very expensive the church could have a separate drive for money for them. Don't let these churches fool you, they are big business too. They should use that for the good instead of bells and whistles. I know not all churches have all the bells and whistles.

 

Oh girl! Don't get me started on that! That's a whole 'nother thread. My husband has been on church staffs and also was independently contracted and WOW! The money that is tossed around. I KNOW there are small churches who can barely pay the light bills. I'm talking about staff makin' Huge salaries, redecorating a lot, pretty pictures on the wall while their own body is going to the local food pantry or being evicted....it's a shame. I agree with you that if the church was functioning as it did in the earliest days of "the church" there would be no need for the gov't to intervene. Sigh ~ if only ~

[Jennifer3141]

From my perspective, one way to fix some of the problems in our healthcare system is to almost sit down with everyone in the country and explain what's going on in hospitals.

 

DH (an internal medicine hospitalist specialist) has patients all the time who are in the hospital in the ICU getting care that costs $20,000 a DAY or more when they are technically already gone.

 

We're talking about 90 year old people on ventilators and feeding tubes because the family can't bear to see them "go" or because the patient wants to never die. They will invariably develop infections.

 

I'm not saying that the elderly shouldn't get care. Far from it. We adore our 95 year old next door neighbor. But he has a quality of life you don't get from being unconscious on life support.

 

We could all be kept alive from a medical standpoint for over 100 years if we wanted to. But the definition of "alive" varies for everyone.

 

We almost need a nationwide townhall meeting in the average ICU in America and see what's what. And we need to talk about death. It's going to happen to every single one of us and everyone we all know. It's kind of silly that we spend years debating the beginning of life but the end is taboo.

 

Jen

[johnandtinagilbert]

Well, if my daughter has a fever for 2 days, I call the doctor. They ask her symptoms, talk to the doc and if he wants to see dd, we go. I like for dd to go to the eye doctor and dentist for regular checkups too. None of these things are emergencies.

 

I think that was the other posters point. The philosophy of medical practice has made a shift in our society. Say, 100 years ago, you didn't go to the doctor unless you needed to because you knew something was wrong and were certain it wouldn't pass with rest and chicken soup. I'm not sayin' it's bad to get eye exams, regular check ups, or even that preventative care hasn't saved ?millions? of lives, I'm just sayin' that we, as a society, go to the doctors a LOT more now than ever before, thus increasing the expected cost for health insurance providers and the waiting lists. All that in regards to regular stuff that passes, not serious permanent illness.

[johnandtinagilbert]

From my perspective, one way to fix some of the problems in our healthcare system is to almost sit down with everyone in the country and explain what's going on in hospitals.

 

DH (an internal medicine hospitalist specialist) has patients all the time who are in the hospital in the ICU getting care that costs $20,000 a DAY or more when they are technically already gone.

 

We're talking about 90 year old people on ventilators and feeding tubes because the family can't bear to see them "go" or because the patient wants to never die. They will invariably develop infections.

 

I'm not saying that the elderly shouldn't get care. Far from it. We adore our 95 year old next door neighbor. But he has a quality of life you don't get from being unconscious on life support.

 

We could all be kept alive from a medical standpoint for over 100 years if we wanted to. But the definition of "alive" varies for everyone.

 

We almost need a nationwide townhall meeting in the average ICU in America and see what's what. And we need to talk about death. It's going to happen to every single one of us and everyone we all know. It's kind of silly that we spend years debating the beginning of life but the end is taboo.

 

Jen

:iagree: the things you see when you live in FL...wow...dh and I have had serious conversation about what to do when the doctor wants on us a pill for x and then a pill b/c x brings y, then a pill b/c y brings z and then oxygen b/c all three combined decrease our lung function....there is a fine line there, I can't say I know where that line is, but it does cause me to wonder.

[Haiku]

but I do see this as mismanagement and this is my experience under gov't health care

 

I am not sure that this is simply a government thing. A few years ago (actually, I guess it was seven years ago, because I was pregnant with my daughter, who is now 6 1/2, not that that matters to the story) I had an impacted wisdom tooth. I went to the dentist, who told me I needed to see an oral surgeon to have it removed. I called the insurance company to get a referral to an oral surgeon and the insurance company told me that I had to see my primary care physician to get a referral to an oral surgeon. I said to the woman, "I have already seen a dentist, who is a tooth doctor, and he told me I need an oral surgeon to take care of this tooth problem. You want me to see a general physician to be told the same thing? How is this saving you money?" She said it's just their policy.

 

That was when we had an HMO. Thankfully we now have a PPO (prferred provider system) where we don't need a referral to see a specialist. Bureaucratic hassles like that happen in the private sector, too.

 

I don't buy the idea that "the market" is some great equalizer that will provide services to those who need them at prices they can afford. There are already too many examples in life of where that doesn't work. I live in the wealthiest country in the world and our government wastes countless billions of dollars every year (probably even every day) but yet can't see fit to make sure that its citizens have humane and affordable healthcare. To me that says a lot (or very little, depending on how you see it) about our government's and our citizen's priorities. What good is living in a supposedly prosperous society if healthcare is either unattainable or cripplingly expensive?

 

Tara

[johnandtinagilbert]

My father is a retired vet and the process he has to go through....seriously waiting in line (literally) to get sent to another line, to see some doctors, then to be told he can't be seen on base for "this" thing. Really, really bad....

[Haiku]

My father is a retired vet

 

I didn't read the title of your post and I was scratching my head and thinking, "What does being a retired vet[erinarian] have to do with how you get healthcare?"

 

:lol:

 

Tara

[Cheryl in NM]

While some diseases and many of the more common ones, may have a personal responisibility componenet- that doesn't apply to the problems in my family. My youngests asthma, cellulutis and anaphalactic reaction to a wasp sting has nothing to do with misbehavior. Nor is her myopia due to lifestyle issues. My older daughter's repeated dislocations of her shoulder doing such routine things like archery, swimming, and reaching are not due to misbehavior and so her surgery to correect the problem is not due to misbehavior. Her ADHD is not due to misbehavior though her behavior is worse if she is not medicated. He migraines aren't due to misbehavior either.My oldest's depression is not due to misbehavior. My inflammatory arthritis, asthma, Sjogren's Syndrome, and migraines aren't due to lifestyle choices either.

 

None of us are suffering from anything due to how we live. I know a few people who ate very well, exercised a lot, were thin, and still had high cholestrol or high blood pressure. One man rode his bike fifteen miles wach way to work, never smoked, drank moderately, was nearly a vegetarian and he had very high cholestrol. His friend who biked with him and was somewhat heavier, did not have high cholestrol.

 

I agree that many health problems are not the effect of behavior patterns. Although, myopia could be caused by trying to read in the dark or otherwise not taking care of your eyes. I didn't need glasses as a child until I thought they were cool so I started swiping my best friends glasses and wearing them. Viola, I needed glasses. I ruined my eyes. Of course, some people just have bad eyes.

 

On the other hand, your daughter's shoulder problems are due to her behavior; archery and swimming. I never said it was mis-behavior, just behavior that could be changed. Dh has been a bow hunter for 20 years and his shoulder problem is from football and archery doesn't bother it. Again, his problem was caused by his behavior. People in sports have to do things just right so they don't injure themselves. Some people can't do certain sports without injuring themselves.

 

I'm speaking gently here, but most of the other medical problems you list above are reactions to other things in life. It is proven that some ADHD, arthritis, asthma, migranes, depression become managable with diet and exercise change. I'm not saying this is your case, but so many people look for a label so they can take the drug so they can feel "better" or "normal". That is where their energy is expended. Imagine if they expended their energy in just trying to get through life without worrying about all these problems. I've suffered from depression for the last 20 years. I've been on and off medication. I feel better physically when I'm off meds. Right now I've decided that I'm going to just see if I can keep up with the basics of life. Take care of household chores, feed myself and family, get together with friends. I'm not focusing on my depression; I'm focusing on what needs to be done in my life. Guess what? I'm feeling better. I still have moments of panic and depression, but I tell myself that they are irrational feelings and that everything in my life is as it should be and most of it is good.

 

Concerning your last paragraph. That man was not eating healthy. I know I'll take alot of flak for this, but a vegetarian diet is not healthy. A human body cannot get the proper amino acids without some meat products; an egg or 2 a day is enough. One of the problems is that we have forgotten what is healthy. Another problem is that we think we have a right to be well. Well, not necessarily. Some people have crosses to bear. Just because I have to struggle with depression doesn't mean I should be "fixed". That is my cross to bear in this life. Obviously, God has plans for me and they include me learning to be okay with not being perfect. I feel like I'm not saying this well. I just think it's okay to get sick and recover; it's okay to have to work everyday with a chronic problem like depression and ADHD. I know some people need vast amounts of medical care just to have some sort of decent quality of life. I also know that they are not in the majority and that some of it is caused by their life decisions.

 

Concerning ADHD I really feel that people with ADHD should be taught how to deal with their symptoms instead of being given medication and an excuse to act badly. I'm not talking about anyone in particular. I'm talking about a trend. ADHD is not new; people have always had it. They learned to sit down, be quiet, pay attention and take care of business. They are highly successful people today with amazing self-control. This is the personal responsibility I keep talking about. It so frustrating when people just want to get labeled and medicated instead of working their butts off to help themselves. Again, disclaimer, not everyone behaves this way, but I believe too many do behave this way.

 

I hope I haven't come off as too harsh. I am passionate about this topice as it has hit almost everyone in my family in some way or another. Please know that I am a compassionate person, but I know alot of people could do more to help themselves.

[Cheryl in NM]

From my perspective, one way to fix some of the problems in our healthcare system is to almost sit down with everyone in the country and explain what's going on in hospitals.

 

DH (an internal medicine hospitalist specialist) has patients all the time who are in the hospital in the ICU getting care that costs $20,000 a DAY or more when they are technically already gone.

 

We're talking about 90 year old people on ventilators and feeding tubes because the family can't bear to see them "go" or because the patient wants to never die. They will invariably develop infections.

 

I'm not saying that the elderly shouldn't get care. Far from it. We adore our 95 year old next door neighbor. But he has a quality of life you don't get from being unconscious on life support.

 

We could all be kept alive from a medical standpoint for over 100 years if we wanted to. But the definition of "alive" varies for everyone.

 

We almost need a nationwide townhall meeting in the average ICU in America and see what's what. And we need to talk about death. It's going to happen to every single one of us and everyone we all know. It's kind of silly that we spend years debating the beginning of life but the end is taboo.

 

Jen

 

Ouch! This makes me sad! I never want to just be kept alive. When it's my time it's my time. I guess I better make sure I have one of those living wills!

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I think that was the other posters point. The philosophy of medical practice has made a shift in our society. Say, 100 years ago, you didn't go to the doctor unless you needed to because you knew something was wrong and were certain it wouldn't pass with rest and chicken soup. I'm not sayin' it's bad to get eye exams, regular check ups, or even that preventative care hasn't saved ?millions? of lives, I'm just sayin' that we, as a society, go to the doctors a LOT more now than ever before, thus increasing the expected cost for health insurance providers and the waiting lists. All that in regards to regular stuff that passes, not serious permanent illness.

 

Yes that is part of my point. I'm not saying that healthcare is only for emergencies, but insurance is (or was). My mom was the first one to take me to the dr. when it was needed and for annual check ups -- I do the same for my kids. I'm thankful that my dr. appreciates call to his office and the nurses help problem solve over the phone. They are very good about having us come in when something is questionable and good about screening out potentially non-issue visits.

[Cheryl in NM]

My father is a retired vet and the process he has to go through....seriously waiting in line (literally) to get sent to another line, to see some doctors, then to be told he can't be seen on base for "this" thing. Really, really bad....

 

I'm so sorry. I believe that our vets should get top rate service. Anyone that is willing to sacrifice themselves so I can sit in my house and be depressed deserves better care than I do!

[PariSarah]

I have always wondered about possibly setting up programs to pay for medical education the way there are programs to pay for college education to become a teacher. Someone gets a grant to pay for med school, and in return they have to serve 4 years in a free clinic for low income patients. There are so many pros and cons to such a thing I don;t exactly know if I'm totally for it or against it, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

 

The sort of debt doctors graduate with is insane, so it would certainly be beneficial to have a mechanism for avoiding or reducing the debt.

 

And it would be a helpful way to control costs while providing quality health care to low-income folks.

 

Some communities are starting to do something like this. It doesn't have to be med school. Churches will band together, for example, to fund the education for a parish nurse, who then serves those churches for a period of time, at lower salary than she could get elsewhere.

 

I'm not sure what other local mechanisms could be put in place for something like this--perhaps a local clinic could be a place to start? A community could fund a nurse practitioner's or physician's assistant scholarship through the clinic in which she'd then be asked to serve. That would be a smaller, cheaper program than a med school scholarship, but it would meet at least part of the need.

[Haiku]

but a vegetarian diet is not healthy. A human body cannot get the proper amino acids without some meat products;

 

OT, but I wonder how you formed this opinion. Have you been vegetarian? I have been vegetarian/vegan for 16 years and I am extremely healthy. There are many studies that have shown the health benefits of vegetarianism.

 

A few months ago I dislocated my shoulder. My dad had this whole theory worked up about how people who are vegetarian aren't getting proper nutrients and tend to have joint problems because of it. A few weeks later, my BIL, who has never been vegetarian in his life, dislocated his shoulder. :shrug:

 

I appreciate that you have your own opinion, but you stated it as fact with no supporting evidence.

 

Tara

[cathmom]

.

 

DH (an internal medicine hospitalist specialist) has patients all the time who are in the hospital in the ICU getting care that costs $20,000 a DAY or more when they are technically already gone.

 

We're talking about 90 year old people on ventilators and feeding tubes because the family can't bear to see them "go" or because the patient wants to never die.

 

A feeding tube is not extraordinary care. And I doubt it costs $20,000 either.

[sunshine]

"Hey, how about we stop our govenment officials from giving themselves raises all the time.... public servants....hurumph.

"

 

 

YES YES Praise God!! That is exactly what we need to do. Congress should cap out at 80,000. Yes that is a lot but they are aiming for 200! I think they should get paid a good salary for representing us, but when Congress started it was a volunteer postition. If they have to live with a reasonable salary they might have to rethink their spending on extravagant things and concentrate on getting some alternative fuels and digging our shelves off the coast like China is. Nuff said.

 

Healthcare.... I have been searching for a health plan for the Georgia Shrimp Association for 5 years. And across the board, the doctors and hospitals have said the it is the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies that have driven the cost of medical care up. So, I say cap all drug prices and medical supply prices. Cap insurance premiums. Cap procedures and treatments. Because like the oil companies, they are making obsecene profits by gauging the public. I like capitalism, but not monopolizing and racketeering. Reasonable profit, not price fixing. Capping is not going to appeal to some but if some parameters are not put in place we will destroy our economy by the greed of few on the backs of many. Read the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. Uncannily familiar.

[Renee in NC]

"Hey, how about we stop our govenment officials from giving themselves raises all the time.... public servants....hurumph.

"

 

 

YES YES Praise God!! That is exactly what we need to do. Congress should cap out at 80,000. Yes that is a lot but they are aiming for 200! I think they should get paid a good salary for representing us, but when Congress started it was a volunteer postition. If they have to live with a reasonable salary they might have to rethink their spending on extravagant things and concentrate on getting some alternative fuels and digging our shelves off the coast like China is. Nuff said.

 

 

 

There is no way congressmen (and women) could support households in two locations (one of those being D.C.) on $80,000. Even heading to $200,000 is not unreasonable considering the "job" being done - compared to a private sector job it seems comparable to me.

[Jugglin'5]

Yes, and the cost of living is outrageous in DC. I am afraid that if they don't get a decent salary that serving will be limited to only the very rich (though really in some ways it is already), or people who have never had to work a real job. Not to mention that it might make them even more vulnerable to the temptation to take bribes.

 

"[/b][/i]

 

 

YES YES Praise God!! That is exactly what we need to do. Congress should cap out at 80,000. Yes that is a lot but they are aiming for 200! I think they should get paid a good salary for representing us, but when Congress started it was a volunteer postition. If they have to live with a reasonable salary they might have to rethink their spending on extravagant things and concentrate on getting some alternative fuels and digging our shelves off the coast like China is. Nuff said.

 

 

There is no way congressmen (and women) could support households in two locations (one of those being D.C.) on $80,000. Even heading to $200,000 is not unreasonable considering the "job" being done - compared to a private sector job it seems comparable to me.

[Murphy101]

#1) Drop the third party billing system. The medical industry is the only business where the customer never sees the bill.

 

I agree! I have begged for a copy of my bill. Those EOBs are useless and vague and nearly impossible to argue. "hospital pharmacy" ? "newborn evaluation"? I've demanded an itemized bill and been told the hospital cannot provide one!:eek: then how am I to know if they are charging me appropriately or not? Are they charging for an epidural I didn't get? Staydol I didn't get? A vaccine I refused? WHAT?:glare:

 

Put an end to pain and suffering lawsuits. You can't truly put a price tag on a human life anyways.

 

I disagree here. But I don think they should be limited to genuine negligent care, rather than the times when things just don't go the way one had hoped. Malpractice should be restricted to faulty care, not ever case of a bad outcome. Some bad outcomes are simply a part of life and the best care still doesn't give a dr the ability to read the future. For drs that are faulty due to other reasons - yeah I think there's valid cause for a patient to seek pain and sufferring damages.

 

Seriously? How can you possibly be able to prove that statement? Even if you knew 100 people that this was true for....that would not even equal 1% of those that are using Medicaid. Not to mention.... you don't know how each and every person gets their hands on game systems...

 

Indeed. The presumption is that if they are having hard times they have always had hard times maybe? I know some families that live in really nice houses that they can't sell and have lots of beautiful clothes and toys. But right now they are really on hard times. All those things are from when times when were better or gifts.

 

I think that was the other posters point. The philosophy of medical practice has made a shift in our society. Say, 100 years ago, you didn't go to the doctor unless you needed to because you knew something was wrong and were certain it wouldn't pass with rest and chicken soup. I'm not sayin' it's bad to get eye exams, regular check ups, or even that preventative care hasn't saved ?millions? of lives, I'm just sayin' that we, as a society, go to the doctors a LOT more now than ever before, thus increasing the expected cost for health insurance providers and the waiting lists. All that in regards to regular stuff that passes, not serious permanent illness.

 

I agree to a point. I think the #1 reason people see drs is because they are told they HAVE to, not because they really want to or can afford it. Schools and employeers insist on people being at the desk or they get punished in various ways. So instead of doing the BEST things for 90% of sickness (stay in bed with soup and rest for a few days) they go to the dr to get a permission slip to miss school/work that day and to get meds that will mask how sick they are and allow them to plow through anyways.

 

Genuine preventive care is less about medical intervention and more about knowledge. diet and exercise and knowing what is normal for ones body and what is not. I've had expensive POS insuracne through my dh's work for 12 years now and not once has vision or hearing been covered. I have to pay out of pocket to get glasses for dh and 3 kids and to get their hearing checked.

 

On another board we were discussing the use or lack of use of well child checkups. I stopped doing them after baby #3. Everyone for them was saying how life saving they can be. One even said her ped caught cancer on her dd with routine bloodwork. Me? I've NEVER had a dr do ANY routine bloodwork or urine at a well check.:confused:

 

I know alot of people could do more to help themselves.

 

True. But it's not as easy as it sounds. Healthier foods are also more expensive and often take more effort to make. it's hard to exercise when your job is sitting at a desk for 12 hours, sitting in a car for 2 hours, then going home to eat ramon and sleep before repeating the cycle.

 

I will say we live in an instant gratification pill popping society. Depressed? take a pill! obese? take a pill! have a cold? take a pill! hyper? take a pill!

 

Now, I am NOT saying that in some of those situations some people might not need meds. What I AM saying is medicine has shifted dramaticly from prevention and cure to "just treat the symptom and get back to work". That's not good medicine practice, but it is the majority of what patients demand and drs do. Most of the time that's all a patient will get unless they demand more from their dr.

 

for example, and a bit OT, yes ADHD has been around forever, we just have a name for it now. However, I'd argue that many did not learn to sit and be quiet. Rather they learned how to use their traits in positive and constructive ways. Ways that are far more limited these days and often strongly discouraged in at least underhanded ways. My oldest son IS very hyper and noisy. It drives us all nuts and I do work with him constantly to manage himself. But more importantly I try to help him see the positives of his situation. For example, public speaking is the #1 fear of most people by the time they reach the teen years. My son has ZERO fear standing up in front of strangers and talking. LOVES it! If we can help him to harness his negatives, they can become really awesome positives in an adult.

 

I'm not anti-medicines. But people need to understand that the majority of meds only treat symptoms. If they want to be genuinely healthy, they need to treat the cause if at all possible.

[Philothea]

I haven't read the other posts...

 

But I feel that one thing that could be done is to divorce medicine from politics. I think prescription drugs are pushed too hard, and would like to see them play less of a role in health care.

 

I would also like to see doctors have less fear of making a mistake, I think that the amounts they can be sued for are outrageous.

 

Another thing I would like to see is a serious effort to teach people how to care for themselves, how to evaluate their symptoms and how to treat themselves at home.

 

I am all for helping people who cannot afford basic medical care and anything reasonable. But I don't want to pay for it for people who break the law to live in this country. I don't want to pay for people to have gender altering operations and other procedures of such a nature.

 

So those are the things I would like to see changed first, and I would have to see where to go from there.

[Heather in Savannah]

Is that why people come from Canada to the US for medical care?

 

Cheryl,

In my 49 years of life in Canada, I have not run across a single person who has been sent to the US for medical care or who has chosen to self pay for medical care in the US. The media exaggerates this scenario....part of this is appeal to fear...possibly fed by the powerful insurance companies in the US?? No one has more to lose than the insurance companies if there are changes to the management of health care in the US.

[Jugglin'5]

Cheryl,

In my 49 years of life in Canada, I have not run across a single person who has been sent to the US for medical care or who has chosen to self pay for medical care in the US. The media exaggerates this scenario....part of this is appeal to fear...possibly fed by the powerful insurance companies in the US?? No one has more to lose than the insurance companies if there are changes to the management of health care in the US.

 

I'm sure the media does exaggerate. However, the criticisms don't seem to be totally baseless:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Criticisms

[Renee in NC]

I'm sure the media does exaggerate. However' date=' the criticisms don't seem to be totally baseless:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Criticisms[/quote']

 

The chart towards the very bottom is very telling, though.

 

Clark Howard was talking about this very issue today. He likes the way Massachusetts has handled their health care problems.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_2006_Health_Reform_Statute

 

What about this? Is it a good middle ground?

[Jennifer3141]

A feeding tube is not extraordinary care. And I doubt it costs $20,000 either.

 

Obviously, you're one of the people who needs to check out an ICU. :001_smile:

 

Jen

[Renee in NC]

Obviously, you're one of the people who needs to check out an ICU. :001_smile:

 

Jen

 

 

Someone who has only a feeding tube does not need to be in an ICU. People who have only feeding tubes can be at home with no problems.

 

Adding a smily face after a comment doesn't make it less snarky.

[shell in SC]

So is reducing the monetary amounts for "sufferings" should also be reduced, so long as there is clear explanation (not just "sign here") with a real list of the possible dangers. Once someone signs that release, they are accepting the possible outcome of the situation (good or bad). A doctor's malpractice insurance is Ridiculous - really ridiculous.

 

 

Tina,

Until you've had a child be the victim of a dr's negligence that sounds really wonderful, but when you get a quack Dr. assigned to you through the ER you really don't know what could happen. I've had to sign informed consent many times and I would consider them a "Clear explanation". When you sign informed consent you are signing that you understand the "outcome of a situation (good or bad)" so I'm not sure what you're suggesting with that. Malpractice insurance should go away not b/c we should do away with "suffering" awards, but b/c dr's should be held personally accountable for their standards of care. If they truly negligently screwed up it should effect their income as well as their practice. I could go on. . .this is a hot button topic for me. . .but I'll be nice.

 

shell

[Jennifer3141]

Someone who has only a feeding tube does not need to be in an ICU. People who have only feeding tubes can be at home with no problems.

 

Adding a smily face after a comment doesn't make it less snarky.

 

You only prove my point. And you didn't read my entire post. I never said that EVERYONE who has a feeding tube is in the ICU. Somehow, you fail to comprehend that. I'm smiling at you because it would be nice if you were able to actually try to understand the points people have made here instead of trying to add drama to things. :001_smile:

 

Jen

[Jennifer3141]

So is reducing the monetary amounts for "sufferings" should also be reduced, so long as there is clear explanation (not just "sign here") with a real list of the possible dangers. Once someone signs that release, they are accepting the possible outcome of the situation (good or bad). A doctor's malpractice insurance is Ridiculous - really ridiculous.

 

 

Tina,

Until you've had a child be the victim of a dr's negligence that sounds really wonderful, but when you get a quack Dr. assigned to you through the ER you really don't know what could happen. I've had to sign informed consent many times and I would consider them a "Clear explanation". When you sign informed consent you are signing that you understand the "outcome of a situation (good or bad)" so I'm not sure what you're suggesting with that. Malpractice insurance should go away not b/c we should do away with "suffering" awards, but b/c dr's should be held personally accountable for their standards of care. If they truly negligently screwed up it should effect their income as well as their practice. I could go on. . .this is a hot button topic for me. . .but I'll be nice.

 

shell

 

Shell, I'm inclined to agree with you. Bad doctors need to be punished to the absolute max. My mother had a horrible doctor who after we did some reasearch, actually lost his medical license in another state prior to treating my mother. He was writing prescriptions without clearly understanding what he was doing. My mother got sick as a result.

 

But I also see the stress that good doctors undergo and I understand that everyone will eventually make a mistake. Unfortunately, innocent people suffer. They need to be compensated somehow.

 

Jen

[PariSarah]

None of us are suffering from anything due to how we live. I know a few people who ate very well, exercised a lot, were thin, and still had high cholestrol or high blood pressure. One man rode his bike fifteen miles wach way to work, never smoked, drank moderately, was nearly a vegetarian and he had very high cholestrol. His friend who biked with him and was somewhat heavier, did not have high cholestrol.

 

You can't always be sure whether someone's illness is self-induced or not, and even if you could, I think it would be immoral to deny them basic care. Deny them a liver transplant, sure. But not antibiotics or pain meds or a check-up now and again.

 

I don't think personal responsibility should be used as an excuse to weed out people who happen to be expensive to care for.

 

On the other hand, the enormity of the problem of self-induced illness, of non-medical problems causing medical symptoms requiring medical solutions, and of the lack of good preventative care is just staggering. My friend was a pastor in an Annual Conference (the regional gathering of pastors that share a bishop and a pension plan and health insurance and all that) where the insurance premiums were killing them. Pastors are some of the unhealthiest people on the planet--second only to doctors, I think!--and when you put all of them together and try to give them group medical insurance, it's just pathetic.

 

Anyhoo, the Conference got together with the insurance company, and they said that if the Conference lost a total of such-and-such pounds (it worked out to about five pounds per pastor, IIRC) over the course of . . . I think it was a year, they would be given a reduction in premiums.

 

Well. It. Worked. They lost the weight, and a little bit extra, and their total costs plummeted! They got an even better discount than they had been offered, because the change was so dramatic.

 

I was astounded when I heard that story. It really gives you a sense of the corporate diffusion of responsibility, you know? A couple little steps in the right direction, and all of a sudden everyone's better off. A little slide the other way, and everyone pays.

[laylamcb]

What an interesting story, Sarah! Yes, it's a microcosm, but still--so interesting and promising.... Thanks for sharing!

[StaceyinLA]

I believe all people need to be TRULY informed about their healthcare options, and get the lawyers out of the picture. Then maybe dr's and hospitals could afford cheaper healthcare options for all of us.

[Renee in NC]

You only prove my point. And you didn't read my entire post. I never said that EVERYONE who has a feeding tube is in the ICU. Somehow, you fail to comprehend that. I'm smiling at you because it would be nice if you were able to actually try to understand the points people have made here instead of trying to add drama to things. :001_smile:

 

Jen

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[Murphy101]

You can't always be sure whether someone's illness is self-induced or not, and even if you could, I think it would be immoral to deny them basic care. Deny them a liver transplant, sure. But not antibiotics or pain meds or a check-up now and again.

 

I don't think personal responsibility should be used as an excuse to weed out people who happen to be expensive to care for.

 

On the other hand, the enormity of the problem of self-induced illness, of non-medical problems causing medical symptoms requiring medical solutions, and of the lack of good preventative care is just staggering.

 

Indeed! I wasn't saying we should deny care, self-induced or not being the cause for it.

 

But I question that giving a pill or even a surgery is genuine care for the problem. MANY times it doesn't treat the source of illness, it just treats the symptoms.

 

I also don't think insurance should cover non medically neccessary issues. And boy do I NOT want to dive for the tomatos over what I consider to not be medically neccessary.:leaving:

[Alice]

Well...I'm somewhat biased. :) One thing that I think is a large part of the problem is:

http://blogs.webmd.com/mad-about-medicine/2007/08/ceo-compensation-who-said-healthcare-is.html.

The links lists some of the CEO's salaries for health insurance companies. I know the argument that CEOs make a lot because you want to attract the best, etc. But I don't really see how health insurance companies are doing such innovative or exciting things to warrant these kinds of salaries for their top executives. If you do a search you can find a lot of other sources...and also see that the other top execs also make a lot. (ETA: I know this source is probably biased since it's webmd. I did find a lot of the same info on other sites like Forbes.com but this was the best concise list and easiest to copy the link for.)

 

Hopefully, I'm not offending anyone here who works for an insurance company. I don't think they are all bad. But by nature they are not about providing the best health care. They are about making more money for their company.

 

I'm not sure I have a great answer for this...in all honesty I'm not sure there is an answer. I started medical school in 1993 and since then I've been hearing how the health care system is broken and heard various ideas for fixing it. I would like to be hopeful, but in reality I'm pretty pessimistic that the system as a whole will ever change.

 

One reason is that as a whole in this country we believe passionately in everybody having a right to all healthcare. We believe passionately in people's right to choose their own health care. In this day and age we are able to provide more and more care, and we are not having the larger conversations about if it's always appropriate for that care to be given. Everyone thinks that they deserve the best care. And everyone does deserve it. The problem is that it's impossible for society to pay for the best healthcare for everyone.

 

We also more and more live in a society where people trust experts more than themselves. (NOT the people on this board :lol: but in general I think this is true.) I see so many kids for issues where I wonder why the parent didn't call their own mother or ask their neighbor or friends. I think our society is more mobile, more isolated and more trusting of "experts." Yes, people bring in kids to have their tics removed. And wax cleaned from their ears. And splinters removed. And, yes it costs them.

 

And finally, I do think that malpractice and the threat of lawsuits are a huge part of the problem. Yes, bad doctors should be punished. Part of the reason that I don't see a way out of changing the system is that I don't see a way to decrease the general litiginous nature of society in general. (Please don't flame me if you've had a personal bad experience....I know bad docs exist, I know people have valid complaints.) BUT, malpractice costs are staggering. I know we've added some fees for things we used to do for free because of needing to cover malpractice. Because of our more mobile society, fewer and fewer people know their docs for a long time or know their doc as someone in the community. Fewer and fewer people truly have relationships with their doctor. I think that makes a difference. You are less likely to sue about something that might not be true malpractice if you know your doctor as a neighbor, or a fellow church member or whatever. My SIL (an ER doctor) was sued (and subsequently found not guilty). The whole process for her was devestating financially and emotionally. It dragged on for years. There has to be a better way....but I'm not sure what it is.

 

Editing to add a few more thoughts...(so much for my "finally" above)

Many people suggested programs that pay for docs loans or education so that docs can practice in an underserved area. Those are good progams and do exist. The problem for many of them is that you have to make a commitment at the beginning of med school to do only primary care. I wasn't personally willing to do that not knowing what I might find to be my calling. It might make sense to expand those programs...after all underserved areas or free hospitals do need neurologist and cardiologist and surgeons too.

 

Another issue that not many people know about is that docs are basically paid to "do" not to "think". If I see a patient for something like a behavioral consult and spend 90 minutes discussing behaviour and development and how I think the patient has autism and what that means and treatment options...I will make the same amount as if I remove a splinter or do a simple drainage of a boil. That's the way the insurances reimburse (which is all based on a percentage of what Medicare/Medicaid reimburse). Therefore, it definitely increases the incentive for docs to see more patients quickly and to do more procedures. Hopefully, most docs aren't thinking "hmmm....if I do this I'll make x instead of y" as they see individual patients, but it has been part of what has led to shorter and shorter appointments and more patients crammed into the day.

[Cheryl in NM]

OT, but I wonder how you formed this opinion. Have you been vegetarian? I have been vegetarian/vegan for 16 years and I am extremely healthy. There are many studies that have shown the health benefits of vegetarianism.

 

A few months ago I dislocated my shoulder. My dad had this whole theory worked up about how people who are vegetarian aren't getting proper nutrients and tend to have joint problems because of it. A few weeks later, my BIL, who has never been vegetarian in his life, dislocated his shoulder. :shrug:

 

I appreciate that you have your own opinion, but you stated it as fact with no supporting evidence.

 

Tara

 

My statement is based on facts from the scientific studies quoted in the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.

 

I'm not trying to say that every health issue you might have is related to your being a vegetarian. And I'm not trying to say that people that eat a balanced diet have no health issues. I am saying that a person cannot possibly manufacture the amino acids necessary to the body without adding some amount of meat to the diet. This is a scientific fact. It's not my idea or opinion; it's been proven.

[Cheryl in NM]

 

True. But it's not as easy as it sounds. Healthier foods are also more expensive and often take more effort to make. it's hard to exercise when your job is sitting at a desk for 12 hours, sitting in a car for 2 hours, then going home to eat ramon and sleep before repeating the cycle.

 

 

This is still a choice. Some people can handle this schedule and afford healthier foods.

Although, healthy food is really not expensive if you grow it yourself. Home-grown beef costs about $2.50 per pound from the original purchase as a 2-day old to butcher at the butcher's (if you process your own it's even less expensive). A garden costs about $50 in seeds and then your time. A canner costs about $100, jars $10/dozen. Anybody except an apartment dweller can have a garden. I realize not everyone can have a steer. But healthy eating is not necessarily more expensive.

Americans used to be creative in the ways they took care of their families. The apartment dweller can barter for farm fresh goods.

Going back to the 12 hour day, 2 hour commute. That's a choice also. Of course, if someone is not willing to change jobs or locations then one spouse should stay home enough time to cook balance meals. Even without the organic (which is not necessarily healthier anyway) food, a good balanced meal is better than ramen.

 

My point is that how we live is a choice. I choose to stay home and take care of my family. We sacrifice game systems, outside classes, the latest and greatest whatever. That is my choice and part of the reason I made it is to move from the fast food mentality. We "do" sports 6 days a week and do not eat out. I prepare our meals and take things. It's hard and I've been known to be up in the middle of the night cooking the next day's meals. I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I'm trying to point out how my ideas work in practice. We need to go back to taking care of ourselves and our families. Big businesses might suffer, oh well.

 

I will say we live in an instant gratification pill popping society. Depressed? take a pill! obese? take a pill! have a cold? take a pill! hyper? take a pill!

 

 

I agree totally! That's a point I was trying to make earlier!

[Haiku]

My statement is based on facts from the scientific studies quoted in the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.

 

 

I've not read her book, though I am familiar in passing with the NT diet.

 

Is Ms. Fallon saying that certain animals which humans choose to eat are capable of synthesizing certain amino acids which humans are not able to? By and large, the animals humans have chosen to consume are herbivores.

Tara

[Cheryl in NM]

I've not read her book, though I am familiar in passing with the NT diet.

 

Is Ms. Fallon saying that certain animals which humans choose to eat are capable of synthesizing certain amino acids which humans are not able to? By and large, the animals humans have chosen to consume are herbivores.

Tara

 

Ms. Fallon is saying that meat has the amino acids we need. Are you saying that humans and animals process their food exactly the same and are exactly the same? A cow, herbivore, has 7 stomachs that process the food they eat. We do not have such a complicated digestive track. How in the world can you compare the two?

 

I know many people think a vegetarian diet is healthy. That doesn't make them right, even if they are a majority.

 

I just took the book back to the library. I wish I had it here so I could quote her studies.

[Joanne]

I am quite sad, nearly disturbed and definitely upset over some of the words posted in this thread and the thinking they represent.

 

I'm even more :eek: because I said similar things in the past.

 

 

The thing I don't like about Medicaid is that (at least here in NC) there are NO co-pays for anything. It's too easy to use. It sounds silly, but there has to be a way to get people to use it responsibly and not see it as "free health care."

 

At first, this statement bothered me. But, I think it speaks to an issue that is part of the topic. Over use of medical care isn't limited to low incomes on gov't assistance. I've been in enough ERs and Dr's offices to see people abuse their medical coverage - of any level.

 

I can't imagine it's fair that we'd have a differing set of expectations for those on assistance. :confused:

 

 

We have insurance for emergency uses only. In 6 1/2 yrs of being a mom, I have dispensed 1 dose of tylenol and my youngest got 3 stitches and a topical anesthetic. Other than that, we have never used a pharmaceutical drug and my kids amaze the pediatrician with how healthy they are. We use the chiropractor if the kids take a bad fall and we eat healthy foods. I need to go to the doctor for emergencies like broken bones and severe gashes needing stitching but that is about all.

 

My family was similar for a long time. Until it wasn't anymore.

 

Generally, those that qualify for Medicaid....could not afford even a $5 co-pay.... surely there are exceptions to that.... but, in general, that is the case. And frankly, especially in the case of children, I would rather there be no co-pay than for even ONE child that needed medical attention not get it because the family didn't have $5.

 

It costs me over $5 in gas and usually $10 in parking to get my dd to her specialist. A $5 co pay has been a big, big deal some weeks.

 

That is not the case in NM. Most of those on Medicaid have the new game systems in their homes and plenty of games. They have name brand clothes and the newest cell phone technology. People have chosen to let the government take care of them.

 

 

:confused:

:ohmy::crying::smash::angry::mad:

 

I used to feel and evaluate similarly.

 

There are a few people who really need help, but that's not the government's responsibility. It's the family and church responsibility.

 

I am, fundementally, a believer in small government and local attendence to needs. In *my* perfect world local organizations - secular and religious - would administer to the actual needs of local residents. I don't see that ever happening to replace the gov't system we've developed, but I do believe in it as an ideal.

 

And before we add more money, do a SERIOUS housecleaning of Medicare/Medicaid providers. There is SO much cheating of the system going on it is horrifying.

 

My FIL has been disabled for many years. Recently, we paid cash for a shower chair for him at a medical supply company. Paid for, in full, cash. Yet the comany turned it into Medicare for payment. We only know because we got the denial letter. I *know* they did it deliberately, and would not have refunded our cash should they have gotten paid.

 

It is proven that some ADHD, arthritis, asthma, migranes, depression become managable with diet and exercise change.

 

Yea, tell that to my (juvenile rheumatoid arthritic) dd, k?

 

I tried, for years, to get up the needed resources to address my depression. The problem? Depression prevented me from making and sustaining the changes you talk about. Trust me, I have a gumption and will that is legend. But I could not get myself out of depression with a good talking to.

 

The systems stinks; it's messed up from all sides. Stereotypes, myths, assumption and holier-than-thou attitudes don't help.

 

Before single with kids and, more recently, impoverished through actions I had no control over, I was a staunch fiscal conservative. I'd like to consider myself still that way. Having lived a life recently to challenge that, I have more empathy but less solutions.