WWYD - Need hive feedback about employer ultimatum

[jenamiles]

I work full-time from home for a non-profit 3 states away.  Over the last year, the people who work remotely have slowly been moving to work onsite. There hasn't been an outright "you must move to keep your position" but it's been the general feeling.  The last 18 months of my job have been unfulfilling to say the least.  There are some major communication issues on the team and a general misunderstanding about my role that my boss will do nothing to correct.  (Read, I'm a full-time employee, very motivated, but only have about 10 hours of actual work and no one on the team will include me in projects because they don't feel it's in my scope.)

 

When we started homeschooling, it made it worse.  Essentially, no one wanted to call me (not that they would anyway but that became the excuse) for fear that they might interrupt me, even though I've said numerous times that work comes first during the day and my kids are pretty much self-directed learners so they are doing their own thing. I have completed every assignment given to me and asked for more.  I have told my boss it is essential that a contract project be completed for me to even do my job that has sat on the back burners for over 13 months now and doesn't look like it will get done anytime soon.  This month, my husband made the decision to retire from the military in the next year.  We had no plans to move to the location.  At this point, I have no connection with my team and do not believe uprooting my family to work in a role that is this dysfunctional already will solve the communication problem.  I also know that if we move there, I'll have to change all of the plans we had - homeschooling, traveling, husband's future employment - for a very likely short lived job.

 

Fast forward to today.  I was supposed to get my review today in my one-on-one with my boss.  Instead, I was told that my boss doesn't feel my family is committed to the ministry I work at because we've picked family over the ministry.  (IE - we are homeschooling and not moving there once husband retires). He tells me that I'm a very valuable part of the team and that he really wants to see me continue and to do all the tasks I've asked him to empower me to do (meaning he has to escalate the issue to management but won't). He then proceeds to tell me that we have to make a decision and let him know next week on whether or not I will put my kids back in school so I can focus on my job (which he already says I meet every objective it's just a perception) and whether or not we will move there once we officially retire.

 

Here is my dilemma.  I will not put my kids back in school here.  The schools are not good where we are.  We also don't want to move there without my husband having a job lined up just because my work wants us to.  My salary is not enough to support us in the city where we'd be expected to move.  That said, I can't afford to just say no to my boss and walk away next week.  My mom thinks I should just lie to him and tell him I'm putting the kids back in school then find a way to have them or me out of the house when I'm on conf calls.  I do have an option for a tutor on my "high work days" and could "appear like my kids are in school".  She also thinks I should do the same with the move.  Tell him we are considering the possibility of moving there and my husband will look for a job.  Basically, placate him until we can't anymore.  I don't like lying to my employer but I also think this is ridiculous.  If I am doing my job, why do I need to be there and who is he to dictate what I do in my time, especially when there are other remote employees.

 

While I'm in town next week I plan to talk to his boss about this whole thing.  My husband has said he'll agree to whatever I decide... no comment.  What would you do?!?!??

[AlmiraGulch]

He has no legal right to ask you a single thing about your children, even if you HAVE them, or what you do with them.  None.  

 

Since the position seems like it will be short-lived for you anyway, I would consult an attorney and have them contact the organization immediately.  It will not improve your working situation, but it should buy you some time to find a new position.  It may even result in you getting a severance package to leave the company.

 

If you're not interested in doing that, I would approach it from a different angle.  He thinks the kids being home is what is keeping you from being committed.  You say you're completely committed, but that you have no work or involvement.  I would tell him point blank that how your children are schooled is a personal matter, that he has already told you you met or exceed your objectives, and that if there is an issue with your performance that needs to be addressed you welcome the feedback but that you won't be discussing personal matters any further.  If they decide to require you to relocate to keep your job and you are unwilling to do so, then they can let you go, hopefully with a severance, and you can collect unemployment until you find something new.

 

P.S.  I'm not just speculating here about the legality.  It's what I do for a living (HR).  

[bolt.]

The perspective expressed from your employer in unprofessional, boundary-less, and probably discriminatory. I would not continue to encourage them to thing in those terms.

 

My answers would revolve around me "not knowing why they are asking about my family life" and "wondering if they have any questions if concerns about my job performance" and "being unsure about whether they require me to be on site to perform my duties"

 

Essentially, I'd bean-dip the ultimatum entirely, and stop discussing my personal life with my supervisor at all.

 

Is my husband retired/retiring? My husband is not involved with my job. About that project...

Are my kids in school? A private decision, thank you for your concern. Last week I really enjoyed working on...

Willing to move? Anything's possible -- will let you know if I make any plans. Do you think I could partner with.... For xyz project?

Why so cagey? Because employers are not entitled to personal information of this nature... Can we please set aside these distractions and talk about my job? I really have a heart to be the best worker possible!

 

I'd have a 'mute' on my phone, making any presence-of-children essentially as invisible as possible to people -- just for professionalism, not as an attempt to deceive.

[jenamiles]

I too believe it is completely unprofessional and is his attempt to avoid addressing the work conflict that has been occurring for over a year.  I will be in town next week and have asked for a meeting with his boss to discuss the issue.  A little more on why they know about my situation - I work for a church.  We are constantly asked to share about and include our families in our jobs.  Every week, the first 30 minutes of our team meeting is "personal conversation time" to share what is going on in our lives.  When the situation first happened that caused me to homeschool, I shared with my boss and asked for some time off to take care of the short-term emergency while I came up with a long term solution.  That one conversation back in March is what started this whole thing.  After that conversation he basically told me I had to share the transition with my co-workers and then I had a co-worker call me the next week so she could tell me that I needed to quit because I couldn't be committed to the ministry if I was with my kids because there was no way she could do both.  It's gone downhill since then, and honestly she and the people she leads are the biggest issue I'm having in getting the information I need to do my job on the team.  I have had numerous convos with him about this and he refuses to handle it blaming it on me being unavailable.  I'm the only one in the team chat 50% of the time (we have an online chat room for the team to connect since everyone has a one day a week telecommute day on different days) and I make a point of responding to all emails within 15 minutes (seriously) and I've never not answered my phone.

 

After the conversation in March, I stopped sharing anything about my personal life of any real interest.  It was obvious the only reason any one actually cared was so that they could catalog it and judge me on it later.  Now when I get called out for not sharing, I mainly talk about the weather here compared to there.

 

It's good to see you guys are pretty much echoing my mom's sentiments.  Say what you need to say and no more.  I'll be escalating the issue next week while I'm there. If the big boss can tell me that as a whole all remote employees are being asked to move to town, that is one thing, but that is supposedly not the case. We'll see where it goes from here.

 

Thanks guys.

[jenamiles]

Ohh, and our intention is to move into our RV and travel after the retirement is finalized next January.  Between now and then, I can build back up my consulting business that I stopped when I took this position 3 years ago.  I made a lot more and had a lot more flexibility.  This really is only a temporary issue.  I just needed the income as part of the "be debt free by Jan 15" plan.

[bolt.]

Would he "sit up and take notice" if you told him you believe you are experiencing workplace discrimination and well-meaning near-sabotage from a co-worker, and that you'd like to know how to file a formal grievance (unless he thinks an informal process might work, with his help)?

[MomatHWTK]

IMO the trouble making co-worker from March is seeking your ouster and manipulating the situation to make that happen.  Unless you are going to go toe to toe with her, you can't win.  You can't guarantee that you'll win even if you do go toe to toe.  I'd let them know quite clearly that you are capable and committed but you are not changing your lifestyle and won't entertain any more questions about your children or spouse.  If they fire you, let it be on them.  I'd also take what I'd learned from the job and start looking to use it elsewhere if $ is an issue. 

[City Mouse]

I don't think he handled the situation very well, but if they are slowly moving to everyone working onsite, it seems reasonable to me that they would want to set up some sort of transition plan to have you moving toward working on site. I don't think 1 week is enough time to make that decision. How can any of us guarantee what will happen 18 months from now.

 

As far as homeschooling or not, want is the company policy for work at home employees as far as general child care goes? I used to have a work at home position where the employee was not allowed to be a caregiver during work hours. Kids (under a certain age) could be in the home as long as the was someone else with the responsibility of supervising the kids. There were built in exceptions for sick days, snow days, school holidays.

It may be that they do not think you can do an adequate job at work (sounds like you are doing very well though) when you are homeschooling at the same time as working. If so, the issue shouldn't be homeschooling vs. sending kids to school. It should be addressed more as a child care issue.

[jenamiles]

I won't win if I go toe to toe with her.  She has been around the church her entire life and has a lot of clout.  I just found someone who can take my kids and school them with her similar aged kids on Tues/Wed which are my meeting days and I can go to the local co-work center those two days.  That will at least give the appearance of complying. Since he's put down an ultimatum, I'll tell him that I've made arrangements for my kids during the day without providing any details and leave it at that.  He doesn't need to know if we plan on moving there in a year or not.  If I have to give him some answer, I'll say we are considering it and leave it at that.  In the meantime, I'll be working on other opportunities.  Grr! I love my job - like absolutely LOVE it. I just want to be able to do it. Thanks ladies for the advice.

[Tap]

I would write an email to your boss, with HR on CC,  requesting a summary of your review in writing. Ask for it to include the outlined grievances,  what an suitable solution would be to the employer, and also how it has impacted your job. I would also ask for a employee handbook If you do not have one that outlines the 'updated expectations  and requirements of telecommuting employees' since it seems like there have been some changes in that area.   Make it very clear in the email how happy you are to work for xyz church and that you absolutely want to resolve the issue, but would like clear direction on these issues so you know exactly what you need to correct.  I would also ask that any future communication regarding issue that have to do with your employment are in written format 'to help avoid any miscommunications'.

 

If he submits this to you, call the state unemployment office (you may need to set up a meeting) and ask if the letter contains any offences that  they can use to legally terminate you and what you need to do as an employee to protect your self.  Some states are 'hire/fire at will' states in which the employer can terminate your employment at any time for any reason, BUT they have to pay your unemployment to do so.  Having the summary in writing helps to protect you in this matter.  

[AlmiraGulch]

I too believe it is completely unprofessional and is his attempt to avoid addressing the work conflict that has been occurring for over a year.  I will be in town next week and have asked for a meeting with his boss to discuss the issue.  A little more on why they know about my situation - I work for a church.  We are constantly asked to share about and include our families in our jobs.  Every week, the first 30 minutes of our team meeting is "personal conversation time" to share what is going on in our lives.  When the situation first happened that caused me to homeschool, I shared with my boss and asked for some time off to take care of the short-term emergency while I came up with a long term solution.  That one conversation back in March is what started this whole thing.  After that conversation he basically told me I had to share the transition with my co-workers and then I had a co-worker call me the next week so she could tell me that I needed to quit because I couldn't be committed to the ministry if I was with my kids because there was no way she could do both.  It's gone downhill since then, and honestly she and the people she leads are the biggest issue I'm having in getting the information I need to do my job on the team.  I have had numerous convos with him about this and he refuses to handle it blaming it on me being unavailable.  I'm the only one in the team chat 50% of the time (we have an online chat room for the team to connect since everyone has a one day a week telecommute day on different days) and I make a point of responding to all emails within 15 minutes (seriously) and I've never not answered my phone.

 

After the conversation in March, I stopped sharing anything about my personal life of any real interest.  It was obvious the only reason any one actually cared was so that they could catalog it and judge me on it later.  Now when I get called out for not sharing, I mainly talk about the weather here compared to there.

 

It's good to see you guys are pretty much echoing my mom's sentiments.  Say what you need to say and no more.  I'll be escalating the issue next week while I'm there. If the big boss can tell me that as a whole all remote employees are being asked to move to town, that is one thing, but that is supposedly not the case. We'll see where it goes from here.

 

Thanks guys.

 

I just wanted to add that I was in no way condemning you for sharing about your personal life with your job.  Most of do that anyway, just as a matter of course as we get to know people. It's a common, natural thing for people to do.  

 

That said, what he is telling you is ILLEGAL.  It doesn't matter that it's a church.  They are not allowed, legally, to make employment decisions based on family/child status.  At all.   That's where my advice came from. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that from a practical standpoint, you need to get along with that woman, and she may or may not be willing to let you do so.

I would give that some serious thought.

You could try and try to befriend her and end up stabbed in the back.  She is onsite, so she can say just about anything and you won't know until you're pretty much on the way out--that might have happened already from the sound of it.

 

The question about doing your work while homeschooling is not just about whether you are completing your assignments if you get the info you need to do so.  Rather it is about whether you have your head in the game--are you thinking of other things to do that will move the organization forward?  Are you doing what it takes, even if it's unreasonable, to get your job done?  Are you physically going to get the info you need to do your work if it's not being delivered the way the company says that it should be?  Are you creating the perception that you have skin in the game, are dedicated to your employment, and are enthusiastic about your position and about building up others in your company?  These are what is needed if you want to counteract the idea that since you're homeschooling you must not be serious about your position.  And, you need allies, and I don't see how you can get and keep them remotely at this point.

 

For right now, I would do what it takes to appear compliant without lying, and I would start looking very hard for another job, pronto.

 

The stakes are being raised, and if you don't move there it sounds like you'll almost certainly be let go eventually.  If you can't do your job remotely, it doesn't really matter whose fault it is, the fact is that if you're not productive and getting rid of you will make your boss' life easier, he will be very tempted to do so.  If you were on site you could pile up your own allies and combat this.  Remotely it sounds like your only real question is whether you can prolong this as long as you would like, until next year, or not. 

 

I would say that my husband is looking diligently for a job, and that he has asked you not to discuss details because they are delicate but to please pray.  And I would get over there and make friends, and be around more in general.  I agree that moving for this job sounds foolish.  Find another one so you don't have to, and leave on YOUR terms.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

PS  Also, although I believe that churches should be the best employers around, a lot of employment law does not apply to them.  I'd be VERY sure about what your state does and does not require of churches before you say anything remotely like a legal threat, and don't ever sound legal unless and until you are ready to go in with your lawyer the next day. 

[Joanne]

The whole thing seems enmeshed and inappropriate to me. I'd be looking to replace the income another way while "keeping" this job as long as I could.

 

There is something almost creepy about it. Controlling, for one. Forced intimacy for another. I'm also not sure how most non profits or churches would benefit from a lot of work done remotely. But I suppose there are some roles that can be done from a distance.

[FaithManor]

PS  Also, although I believe that churches should be the best employers around, a lot of employment law does not apply to them.  I'd be VERY sure about what your state does and does not require of churches before you say anything remotely like a legal threat, and don't ever sound legal unless and until you are ready to go in with your lawyer the next day. 

In most states, religious organizations are exempt from discrimination in the work place so as not to violate their beliefs, whatever those may be at the time.

 

However, that said, they cannot coerce you into providing personal information you do not want to share. They sound like a bunch of busybodies...this business of forcing people to "share" is ridiculous. That is one aspect of the whole thing that would be shut down for sure.

 

Stick to your guns; do what's best for your family. However, prepare to be let go because they have decided they are entitled to run your private life and therefore, will likely not settle for being thwarted.

[Cera]

I wouldn't outright lie to him but I would give him the impression you are considering a move to the company location when your husband retires.  As far as putting the kids in school, I would tell him you will not be doing that but will be hiring someone to be responsible for them during your work hours. 

 

How you school your kids is not his business and I would have no problem lying to him about that.  (but I would also start looking for another job immediately).

 

[AlmiraGulch]

PS  Also, although I believe that churches should be the best employers around, a lot of employment law does not apply to them.  I'd be VERY sure about what your state does and does not require of churches before you say anything remotely like a legal threat, and don't ever sound legal unless and until you are ready to go in with your lawyer the next day. 

 

This is illegal.  It doesn't matter that it's a church.  How you educate your children is in no way protected by the fact that it's a church, as would, say, an unmarried teacher at a Catholic school becoming pregnant.  

[Chris in VA]

I hope you find a good solution. It must be so frustrating!

 

The following is my opinion--not meant in judgement.

 

One thing stands out to me--if you are in ministry, and you are tempted to lie, or to "fudge the truth," get out.

 

It's not worth it. It's not healthy, and honestly, I can't imagine God would be ok with it. I would ask God to help you find a new job.

[emzhengjiu]

I hope you find a good solution. It must be so frustrating!

 

The following is my opinion--not meant in judgement.

 

One thing stands out to me--if you are in ministry, and you are tempted to lie, or to "fudge the truth," get out.

 

It's not worth it. It's not healthy, and honestly, I can't imagine God would be ok with it. I would ask God to help you find a new job.

I think this is true no matter where you work, but some things are not the business of an employer, ministry or otherwise.  I wouldn't say more than is necessary, but I wouldn't lie either.  To me, it's not a lie to say your husband is considering the move.  Don't volunteer more information than is essential.  Start looking for another position immediately.  All of this seems controlling and creepy to me.

[bettyandbob]

I would simply say you dh needs to consider his employment options, including those in the city where your work is, before your family can make a decision. Then, I'd start figuring out how to live without the job--budgeting, looking for new work locally, etc. 

[Harriet Vane]

This is the kind of boundaries violation that is absolutely inappropriate and yes, absolutely illegal. It's also unfortunately quite common in churches, ministries, and missionary endeavors. (I am a Christian who has both worked for and volunteered for numerous such organizations.)

 

They have NO legal standing to make any demands about your children's education.

 

I doubt you will be able to work this out. I strongly suggest you get another job or put all your energy into your consulting business immediately. Why waste further time and energy on people who will not be honorable.

[Carol in Cal.]

This is illegal.  It doesn't matter that it's a church.  How you educate your children is in no way protected by the fact that it's a church, as would, say, an unmarried teacher at a Catholic school becoming pregnant.  

 

That's not even remotely the point. The point is that if her employer believes that she is not doing her fulltime job as evidenced by the fact that she says she has taken on another fulltime job simultaneously, or because she won't move to headquarters, she may not be protected by employment law in the same way that workers for other types of companies would be, and it's important to know your rights before trying to assert them.  Additionally, threatening legal action will further sour or ruin the relationship, so it's important to think that through before doing so--it's not something to throw around casually.

[LostSurprise]

Telecommuting is always a tenuous position, and telecommuting for a company which appears to be eliminating that option is even more uncertain. 

 

When these management shifts happen often lower management are pressured from those above them to find a reason to get rid of positions which are perfectly functional. This is awkward for lower management because they can't really answer the question 'why can't I do what I've always done if I'm doing a good job?' because the answer is actually 'the people upstairs don't think telecommuting works....it doesn't really matter what the numbers say, that's not what they want and there's nothing I can do about it.' Instead, lower management starts digging around for some other excuse to eliminate a position and maybe even convince themselves that it is the actual reason.

 

Unfortunately, that excuse is that you are homeschooling and/or that you haven't started looking to transition to work on-site. 

 

IMO, if they are eliminating telecommuting, which they've given you every indication they are, that's enough of a reason to eliminate the position. It would be nice if they were completely straightforward with you and just laid everything on the table, but it seems like your manager thought you got the hint and would bring yourself in line with expectations. Frustrations on their side are because you're not getting the hint. Their frustration means picking up on things which have no bearing to what the problem is...ie they needed to give you the ultimatum months ago but were hoping that things would magically work out when your dh retired. They probably like you very much and were hoping not to be so confrontational. Christians...what can I say? 

 

You can either be straight with them, take the conversation to the heart of the problem, and walk away now, or you can remain passive and ignore the situation until you're ready to leave. I don't think you need to lie to do that. Just let things bounce off you until they get the get the nerve to eliminate your position. Don't take it personally, they probably don't want to do it, that's why all these other things (homeschooling) are getting dragged in...so they can work themselves up to the action they always had to make. 

[AlmiraGulch]

That's not even remotely the point. The point is that if her employer believes that she is not doing her fulltime job as evidenced by the fact that she says she has taken on another fulltime job simultaneously, or because she won't move to headquarters, she may not be protected by employment law in the same way that workers for other types of companies would be, and it's important to know your rights before trying to assert them.  Additionally, threatening legal action will further sour or ruin the relationship, so it's important to think that through before doing so--it's not something to throw around casually.

 

It is absolutely the point.

 

If the OP actually had another job, she would not be protected.  If the job requires relocation and she refuses, she would not be protected.  In this case, she specifically stated that her employer said outright that she was meeting her work objectives, but that he feels she's not committed because she homeschools.   Unless her church has decided, decreed, and published that that homeschooling is against its stated doctrine, their request that she quit homeschooling in order to show commitment to her job is, in fact, illegal.

 

I do not advise threatening legal action lightly.  Someone's job is potentially at risk for a reason that is not legally protected.  I suggested the lawyer not to sue her employer, but to protect herself against negative action while she explores other options.

[Miss Mousie]

<snip>

 At this point, I have no connection with my team and do not believe uprooting my family to work in a role that is this dysfunctional already will solve the communication problem.  I also know that if we move there, I'll have to change all of the plans we had - homeschooling, traveling, husband's future employment - for a very likely short lived job.

 

<snip>He then proceeds to tell me that we have to make a decision and let him know next week on whether or not I will put my kids back in school so I can focus on my job (which he already says I meet every objective it's just a perception) and whether or not we will move there once we officially retire.

 

<snip>

While I'm in town next week I plan to talk to his boss about this whole thing. 

 

The first quote contains, IMO, your ultimate answer.

 

Second quote:  Don't respond to the ultimatum unless your boss asks what you've decided.  If he does ask, say: "I'm still waiting to see an email from you indicating what specific objectives I've failed to meet due to insufficient focus on my part."

 

Third quote:  what is the timing here?  Would you be potentially dealing with your boss before or after you meet with your boss's boss? 

 

Overall, though, I would not volunteer anything until pressed.  Let them terminate your employment if they want to, then collect unemployment while you rebuild your consulting business.  I realize you don't want this situation to turn ugly, and I don't think it's worth battling with the Thorny Woman even if you could win, which doesn't sound likely.  But what the organization as a whole is doing is wrong, and you may want to consider whether and in what way they should be encouraged to correct that behavior.

 

Regardless of how the situation plays out, however, I could not and would not advocate lying in any way.

[zoobie]

The employer can't forbid homeschooling, but the employer does have the legal right to inquire as to child care arrangements during the work day. What she does outside of that time is none of their business, but if they believe her attention is diverted to her children over work during her time on the clock, that is a valid concern. Employers may ask for "proof" of childcare arrangements during work hours as a condition of telecommuter employment.

 

Also, if they are planning to eliminate telecommuting, a willingness to relocate to the home office is relevant. You can be somewhat cagey and offer to discuss relocation as a term of employment contract re-negotiation. It would be silly to make firm plans to up and move without a signed contract with guaranteed renumeration. You could ask for a written proposal of their relocation package in conjunction with an employment contract.

[AlmiraGulch]

The employer can't forbid homeschooling, but the employer does have the legal right to inquire as to child care arrangements during the work day. What she does outside of that time is none of their business, but if they believe her attention is diverted to her children over work during her time on the clock, that is a valid concern. Employers may ask for "proof" of childcare arrangements during work hours as a condition of telecommuter employment.

 

Also, if they are planning to eliminate telecommuting, a willingness to relocate to the home office is relevant. You can be somewhat cagey and offer to discuss relocation as a term of employment contract re-negotiation. It would be silly to make firm plans to up and move without a signed contract with guaranteed renumeration. You could ask for a written proposal of their relocation package in conjunction with an employment contract.

 

Yes, but only if there is evidence that it is interfering with performance.  This employer has stated clearly that the OP is meeting all of her objectives.  The concern is not about performance, but rather about perceived dedication.  

[zoobie]

Yes, but only if there is evidence that it is interfering with performance. This employer has stated clearly that the OP is meeting all of her objectives. The concern is not about performance, but rather about perceived dedication.

The employer's perception matters though. The employer has a right to change previous policies with notice, which is what it seems they're doing. They're mucking up the verbiage, but switch out "homeschooling" for "being the primary caretaker for children during work hours" and it's an acceptable employer condition for telecommuter employment.

 

This isn't legal advice, but I've-also-worked-for-crazy-people advice: start keeping really thorough logs of your time. You might want to send a weekly report to your supervisor, including times you were logged in to the system and projects assigned and completed.

Monday:

logged in 8:30-11:30, 12:00-5:00

Completed tasks A-F of Project 1, requested information from Suzie necessary to complete remaining tasks

Requested additional assignments from Jane

Conferenced with Bob re: Project 2

 

Or whatever is appropriate for the job. Basically CYA!!! Especially now that you are on notice that you're being targeted for underperformance.

 

I hope you escape the crazy soon on your own terms! :)

[AlmiraGulch]

The employer's perception matters though. The employer has a right to change previous policies with notice, which is what it seems they're doing. They're mucking up the verbiage, but switch out "homeschooling" for "being the primary caretaker for children during work hours" and it's an acceptable employer condition for telecommuter employment.

 

 

 

Yes, it does, and yes, they do.  But the employer clearly stated already that she is meeting her objectives. If they said that her performance was affected, it would be different.  They did not.  

 

That said, what you're saying about the verbiage does make sense.   I don't know how old her children are, but there could be an argument made, depending on their ages, that they are their own primary caretakers.  I also work from home, but when my kids are off school they are responsible for themselves.  

 

I  definitely agree with your advice to the OP about documenting how her time is spent, based on my own I've-worked-for-crazy-people experience.  It doesn't seem like it's going to make a material difference in the end, unfortunately. I do hope she gets out of there in the most painless way possible.

[T'smom]

I agree with lots of previous posters. My only piece of advice is to answer when questioned about plans that you are praying about it and seeking what God's will in the situation is. It would be hard to argue with that.

[kbutton]

Can you go over your boss's head while doing the CYA stuff mentioned previously? If your boss has not pushed projects to be done that keep you from doing your job, that's a problem whether or not the rest of this is happening. I've had to go around a boss before, and it's not pleasant, but it can be a potential solution.

[Susan C.]

Run Forest Run!!!

"Family before ministry." That is how it is supposed to be and it is a red flag for them to say otherwise. My dh has worked for two ministries in the past, they never demanded that. Some he interviewed for seemed like your job. He told one his family came first and never heard back.

No employer, non-profit or not, has the right to tell you where to school your kids!! Another red flag…

Another red flag… they are telling YOU what to do, where to live, when (when your husband retires.) What your husband does, where he works, is none of their business. So, already way too much meddling in your personal life for my liking.

Your first instinct, not to do it, that it was short term, etc. seems very accurate. If it were me, I would resign OR string it along as long as you need to for financial reasons, even tell them you are coming in a year if you need the money. No qualms, because what you do in your personal life if none of their business. That would buy time to find something else. And I was typing as I read, your Mom's and your ideas would work as well. I don't see it as lying as they have crossed the line big time into your personal affairs. Their concerns are job demands (home or there), hours, availability. That is IT.

Now I'm at the part at "what would you do?" Get out asap without hurting your financial situation.

[catz]

I think you have some good advice here, but ultimately, I would be looking for new employment ASAP. I'd be working on my resume tonight.

 

My husband's company got rid of a ton of remote people recently. If someplace is looking to cut corners, it's an easy way to go. My husband's company would not hire a parent working at home with kids in the picture, and one of the first ones eliminated had flaky child care so he often had kids around during conference calls, etc.

[Tap]

I could potentially see that while u are completing the tasks that they do assign you, there could be hypothetical other tasks they would want you to do if you were in the office.  

 

For instance, lets say you are in marketing (I have no idea what you really do).  Maybe you are completing the projects they give you like creating online projects, web site based projects, and sales via phone.  BUT ( and this is a complete guess on my part,) is that they have had some opportunities come up that required an in-face meeting or possibly even travel to another area.  They may not want to ask you to travel to do those meeting, since it would be expensive and create babysitting issues and school issues for you.  You say you are paid full time for a minimal amount of work.  They likely realize that they are paying you a premium wage, but not utilizing you like they would if you lived close.  It sounds like you are getting treated pretty well considering how little work you are actually doing for the church.  

 

A premium employee may be worth keeping on the payroll for a year, if you are going to be coming onsite in the near future.  If you honestly don't plan on relocating (and they are asking you to), then it is only fair that they know that, if they are holding a position for you.  Them asking you for a commitment, isn't uncommon.   If they are going to commit to paying you full time wages, for part time work, just to keep you secured for future projects....then it is fair that they are going to expect you to commit to moving there and putting your kids back in school when you get there.  

 

They maybe putting more projects on other people that would have normally belonged to your position, if you weren't homeschooling.  It could even just be hypothetical projects that they think 'hmmm, if she were here, that would be something I could ask her to do'.

 

Dh works from home, so I do understand.  They don't know, (and they don't ask), that dd7 is here on days when he is home occasionally (her public school has half/full days off almost every week) There is no way he could do a full time job with her in the house, especially if he was homeschooling her too.  She knows to be very quiet any time he is on the phone and he goes upstairs if he is taking a call and she is watching TV downstairs so they don't hear her in the background. 

 

 

Like I said earlier, I would get your evaluation in writing and I would find out what your legal rights are just so you know where you stand legally.  

[jenamiles]

For those who are curious, I sent an email to my boss and his response was basically to back pedal on all of his "requirements".  I have had a crazy employer before, to the point where I filed a complaint with the local labor board after I left which resulted in major changes in the office a few years ago (I left and never regretted it), so I am a big believer in CYA and paperwork trail.

 

I emailed him late last night and said, Per our conversation today, while my performance has been acceptable, there are concerns of my perceived availability and commitment to the team.  In regards to the request to enroll my children back in school, I can not do so until next fall.  However, I have arranged for my children to be homeschooled by another mother during the day for the remainder of the year, even though this is technically illegal per our state homeschool rules.  In regards to moving to "state name" as a condition of my continued employment in January of 15, we can not answer that question today.  We are willing to consider the option if my husband would be able to find a position; however, we can not afford to live there on my income alone.  This answer will need to wait.

 

His response came back today:

First of all, I definitely don't want you to be doing something that's illegal with regards to your kids education. That's not something that's advisable.

Secondly, I think you misunderstood our last conversation. You are not required to move here to continue your employment. That's not what the conversation was about.

(Even though it was clearly stated that we needed to show our commitment to the ministry as a family and moving there was how we would show that commitment.  I asked for clarification on this in our call several times and he kept dancing around this wording which is why I specifically included it in the email.  Telling me I need to move there to show commitment and it's a requirement for continued employment is the same thing even if it's not worded the same.)

 

He'd like us to meet next week while I'm in town to "make sure we are both on the same page".  I have already put some feelers out and will be re-launching my consulting business.  We are very close to being debt free and if I can push this for a few more months, we should be there.  I love what I do and would bend over backwards to make this work; however, there are a few very specific things I won't bend on. Both of which happen to be homeschooling in this area and moving to the location.

[Harriet Vane]

Sounds like you handled it well.

 

Stand your ground.

 

Best wishes to your exciting new business. May God bless it.