............

[albeto.]

Respectfully I think one can be an atheist while not putting MYTH over religious images.

No doubt, but this project is aimed towards an audience that doubts the faith they've been raised to just accept. It confirms and validates their skepticism.

 

I think if one was truly wanting mutual respect and discourse they would not use religious images at all. *shrug*

There's a time and place for mutual respect and discourse, but on a billboard, an image has to convey a great deal of information in a very quick amount of time. The image is immediately recognizable, the word "MYTH" is immediately identified. The two work together on the brain in such a way that is conducive to billboards.

 

To me the question is whether the atheist believes in the absence of religion or if they are anti-religion. (and those come across very differently)

When you teach your kids the various mythological stories in human history, are you being anti-theistic about it, or just factual?

[KarenNC]

So the question then in this thread is, do Atheists believing the bible is a book of myths constitute a war? Or even a battle?

 

Or is it just that's what Atheists, by definition, believe? Just as Christians, by definition believe in the supremacy of Jesus Christ?

 

Is it any different from churches having their signs that say what they say. You know what signs I mean, with the pop in letters so you can put whatever you like? A church declares HE IS RISEN! and an Atheist buys a billboard down the road proclaimed NO HE'S NOT!

 

It's just an impasse, to me. And a distraction (the impasse, not the signs), to boot. From making meaningful connections and lifting one another up. [This is not directed at you, Milovany, just my thoughts re: war on Christmas]

 

IMO, any of the groups run the risk of slipping into mockery when the focus shifts from their organization and what they espouse/do/etc to the practices of another group with whom they disagree. "He is Risen" is the first, "No, He's Not" is the second. All that tells me is that the second organization has so little good they can find to say about themselves that the only way they feel they can convey their message is to put down someone else, when what someone else believes/does/etc shouldn't really be their concern. If their primary focus is on what's wrong with everyone else, that's a sign of what's wrong with their group in my eyes and a reason to avoid them. Christian groups do this to other Christian groups, Neopagan groups do this to other Neopagan groups, political parties do this to other political parties, citizens of one country do this to citizens of other countries, etc. It's not appealing.

[albeto.]

Hmmm, mockery involves ridicule. I do see that ad (and the others like it, especially the one KarenNC posted) as one filled with ridicule.  If that's not the intent, the ad campaign needs to be tweaked because that's how it's coming across.

 

When you teach your kids the mythology of other cultures, do you mock and ridicule them, or do you teach them facts about their mythology and cultures?

[albeto.]

See it's tricky. I disagree with that billboard, but they have a right to have it. They bought it. It's not the same at the courthouse lawn, because the courthouse lawn is government-owned.

 

It's hard to have these kinds of conversations, because you end up "fighting," so to speak for the rights of people you disagree with.

 

But that's a wonderful, American/Western characteristic yes?

 

Yes!

[milovany]

Your personal reasons? Correct.

Those who provided you with the justifications for your reasons? Incorrect.

 

This isn't what I said ("personal reasons"), but I need to get back to my family and work.  May your holidays be merry and bright. 

[albeto.]

I don't think it's difficult to find examples of people mocking Christianity and religion in general. And yes, I do know what that word means. One example: the Zombie Jesus meme.

 

Yeah, Zombie Jesus is absolutely mockery. It exposes what some find to be a ridiculous claim. The ridicule factor is high in that one. I don't think anyone doubts it's meant to be. Fair enough. 

 

I don't see that on the billboard, and I don't see that when rejecting tax funds for religious promotion. I think there is a difference.

 

But then, was there a "war" on the Greek gods? Does Percy Jackson ridicule Poseidon? Or did so much time pass between when people believed it to be true no questions asked, and people recognized it as myth, that there is no (or little) offense today? So then I wonder, is that a "war," or natural evolution? 

[Χά�ων]

 

Now, if you want to talk about a religion being mocked/ignored/not represented in the public sphere, try being a Hellenic Neopagan ;)

 

Thank you for saying this. As a mom raising a Hellenist Pagan child, I find it difficult to protect him from such messages as he grows into his own faith. The idea that he came to his own faith is questioned constantly because it is viewed and taught as a story ancient people told to explain the world around them rather than a set of religious beliefs by an ancient civilization. Had he come to the Christian faith in the same manner it would be viewed as "Proof of God's Work." Very much a double standard.

[unsinkable]

Yeah, Zombie Jesus is absolutely mockery. It exposes what some find to be a ridiculous claim. The ridicule factor is high in that one. I don't think anyone doubts it's meant to be. Fair enough.

 

I don't see that on the billboard, and I don't see that when rejecting tax funds for religious promotion. I think there is a difference.

 

But then, was there a "war" on the Greek gods? Does Percy Jackson ridicule Poseidon? Or did so much time pass between when people believed it to be true no questions asked, and people recognized it as myth, that there is no (or little) offense today? So then I wonder, is that a "war," or natural evolution?

Why would Percy Jackson ridicule Poseidon? That's his father.

[KarenNC]

No doubt, but this project is aimed towards an audience that doubts the faith they've been raised to just accept. It confirms and validates their skepticism.

 

There's a time and place for mutual respect and discourse, but on a billboard, an image has to convey a great deal of information in a very quick amount of time. The image is immediately recognizable, the word "MYTH" is immediately identified. The two work together on the brain in such a way that is conducive to billboards.

 

When you teach your kids the various mythological stories in human history, are you being anti-theistic about it, or just factual?

 

That's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of either billboards or bumper stickers as the primary means of communication about the vast majority of issues.

 

As to factual or anti-theistic, it's all in the approach. "Egyptians believed ....... With several centuries of experimentation and the growth of knowledge, we now realize....... I wonder what things we accept now will be different in several hundred years? " is very, very different than "Egyptians were so primitive and ignorant that they believed x when *we* know that really ......." or "The Incas made up silly stories about gods to explain......., Aren't we lucky that we are smart enough to really know ..........?" Unfortunately, many sources do not approach pre-Christian religions in the context of their own times and cultures.

[SKL]

I don't see any "war" -- but I do see respect, pluralism, and an attempt to show kindness via tolerance for most people and their winter holidays. Maybe that means the "war" has been "lost" by Christmas. I don't think I mind at all.

 

Where I live, there is a significant Jewish population and a lot of respect for the Jewish religion.  Growing up, before realizing all the things that people make politics over, I would not have thought that Chrismas was in "conflict" with Judaism.  Just like Hanukkah is not in conflict with Christianity.  Most of the big, traditional department stores in these parts were owned by Jewish famlies, and they most certainly did up Christmas in their stores.  Much more than is done today, actually.  Unfortunately there is less acceptance for religions other than Judaism / Christianity around here.  It's not overt (except for a few ignorant bigmouths) but the people of those other religions don't feel encouraged to share their own traditions in mixed groups very often.

 

[Slartibartfast]

In my "ideal" world I wouldn't have to see the hellfire and damnation billboards, or the infamous Uncle Sam billboard when going up I5 (or any billboard for that matter, visual blights that they are), but there's that freedom of speech thing.

 

But to be fair, from my POV most religions are based on a mythological element (I say "most" because I'm not familiar with all), and I think most Christians would, if pressed, would agree with that terminology when talking about particularly polytheistic religions. I don't see "myth" as negative -- after all, it's broader definition often explicitly includes religious tradition -- although I readily concede that some do. This is where Bill would come in and rail against the definition of "myth" as a generic term for a false belief. :)

 

There are  different definitions, you are correct. With the inclusion of  the word "REASON" it is pretty clear which one is intended. If Bill wants to rail against a definition he should probably take that fight to Merriam-Websters or Oxford instead of in a thread. I don't make definitions up.

 

Those hellfire signs are very popular. I see quite a few here that farmers put up by their fields. On my drive through the south when going home for holidays I see a ton. I could probably put together quite the damnation montage if people wanted, I could put it to music. :lol: I don't intend to defend those. I don't know what the Uncle Sam billboard is. 

[songsparrow]

When I said OKBud's comment was the crux of the issue, I meant that it is important to understand that the Constitution is there to protect all of us, no matter who happens to be in the majority at the moment. Currently, Christianity is the religion claimed by the majority of people in this country. So, it may seem unfair that you are not allowed to put your symbols on public buildings and require their use in public ceremonies and so on. After all, it's what works for most people. So, why not go with it?

 

But imagine a time in which Christianity is no longer predominant. Would you want to have to be forced to conduct business and legal proceedings under the symbol of a faith you don't practice? Would you find meaning in being asked to swear an oath on a holy book other than your own? Would you resent seeing publically-funded displays related to religious festivals of the majority in the town square while your church's holy days were ignored?

 

Christians should be among those fighting to be left free to pray and worship as they choose, and not have their prayers and worship be dictated by the government, culture or dominant religion of the society.  I think that Christians that fail to recognize the incredible importance of maintaining and protecting the separation of church and state have not been well educated in the history behind the principal, and are short-sighted because they perceive themselves to be the current dominant religion.  Christians should not view it as necessary or desirable for the government to place its imprimatur upon their religion through the display of Christian religions symbols in government buildings, but see it as something that should be avoided and be a cause for great concern. 

 

I think the perceived "War on Christmas" is simply Christians feeling put out because they are beginning to be treated in the same way as all other religions - that Christianity is no longer holding a preferential position.  In the US, Christians are still protected in their rights to assemble to worship and celebrate Christmas.  They are protected in their ability to place nativity sets and other religious symbols on display at their homes, places of worship and privately owned businesses.  

 

Finally, it's absurd that Christians are put out by retailers saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" or offering cards that say "Happy Holidays" instead of all of the cards saying "Merry Christmas."  Those retailers are the same ones who have turned a religious holiday into a consumer frenzy.  Christians should be celebrating the separation of their religious holiday from the retail morass, rather than complaining about it.

[KarenNC]

Why would Percy Jackson ridicule Poseidon? That's his father.

 

I think she means that the use of the Greek Gods as a source for a fictional series could be seen as mocking something sacred. IMO, no, it doesn't (though depictions might), but then there was not a tradition in Greek culture for only portraying the Gods in a sacred, inerrant, manner. The vast majority of what we know of them comes from exactly the same kinds of sources---popular plays, songs, stories. There's both no tradition of a single unalterable interpretation nor of imitatio dei, as there is in Christianity. Think of "Dogma" as an example of a form of popular entertainment that some see as objectionable because it doesn't give what they deem to be proper respect to Jesus.

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

Finally, it's absurd that Christians are put out by retailers saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" or offering cards that say "Happy Holidays" instead of all of the cards saying "Merry Christmas."  Those retailers are the same ones who have turned a religious holiday into a consumer frenzy.  Christians should be celebrating the separation of their religious holiday from the retail morass, rather than complaining about it.

 

Only a minority of Christians care about that. I certainly do not care.

[KarenNC]

Thank you for saying this. As a mom raising a Hellenist Pagan child, I find it difficult to protect him from such messages as he grows into his own faith. The idea that he came to his own faith is questioned constantly because it is viewed and taught as a story ancient people told to explain the world around them rather than a set of religious beliefs by an ancient civilization. Had he come to the Christian faith in the same manner it would be viewed as "Proof of God's Work." Very much a double standard.

 

If I haven't sent you links and resources, pm me. It's not the easiest of paths.

 

[LucyStoner]

Maybe this whole problem would be solved if people just watched more Charlie Brown Christmas. Yeah, that's my answer and I am sticking to it. The answer is more Charlie Brown!

[zoobie]

Well, these are my words: quote name="StaceyinLA" post="5365871" timestamp="1387264745"]

 

For instance, mock Muslims and it'll wind up being a hate crime, but Christians will always be fair game. It's the direction we are headed as a country.<<

 

I said WIND UP being a hate crime. It is going to happen. Right now if you say the wrong words to the wrong person/people it is on the verge of being considered a hate crime. It won't be long until you'll be held accountable.

 

Being charged with a hate crime, as I understand it, affects sentencing. If you commit a crime against someone because of his/her religion, you can be charged with a hate crime. Religion is the protected class. If you stab someone because he is Jewish or Muslim or Christian, and it can be proven that the reason was the victim's religion, you can be charged with a hate crime. There still must be an underlying CRIME, and mockery is not criminalized. I doubt it ever would become a crime because of the 1st Amendment. 

 

 

 

Happy Holidays to me is either one or two things. One, it can be an effort to be inclusive of all winter holidays. Retailers use "happy holidays" to try to be inclusive, or maybe it's used by a person offering general well-wishes without knowing what the person celebrates exactly. Two, it's used to celebrate Christmas in an arena in which it should not be celebrated by pretending the stuff is HOLIDAY decor, not CHRISTMAS decor. One of my friends coordinates a huge "holiday" display in her kids' public elementary school cafeteria every year. It's totally Christmas. Christmas trees, reindeer, Santa. Maybe they use pinks and purples and blues instead of red and green. She has a manger up this year that also doubles as Santa's Workshop if anyone asks. Wink wink. There's not a tiny menorah or token Kwanzaa lamp anywhere, you know, which would completely make it okay... I really can't imagine being a Jewish (or whatever) kid in the cafeteria throughout the month of December. Hello, you don't belong here! But it's a HOLIDAY display, and anyone who complains is accused of waging a war on Christmas/Christians. *bangs head on desk*

[albeto.]

That's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of either billboards or bumper stickers as the primary means of communication about the vast majority of issues.

Does anyone think billboards or bumper stickers are used as primary means of communication about the vast majority of issues?

 

As to factual or anti-theistic, it's all in the approach. "Egyptians believed ....... With several centuries of experimentation and the growth of knowledge, we now realize....... I wonder what things we accept now will be different in several hundred years? " is very, very different than "Egyptians were so primitive and ignorant that they believed x when *we* know that really ......." or "The Incas made up silly stories about gods to explain......., Aren't we lucky that we are smart enough to really know ..........?" Unfortunately, many sources do not approach pre-Christian religions in the context of their own times and cultures.

 

Well, billboards aren't the medium for lengthy explanations. National organizations generally don't suggest things like "Christians are so ignorant that..." or "The Christians made up silly stories about gods because..." Since these organizations are the ones funding these billboards, I think that's useful to recognize. As far as being anti-theistic, that simply refers to the idea that religions are ultimately detrimental to society. How one goes about that will vary due to the personality of the individual. Many anti-theists are enormously respectful, patient, and compatible with theists. That's a personality thing, though, not an ideology thing.

[Slartibartfast]

 

 

When you teach your kids the various mythological stories in human history, are you being anti-theistic about it, or just factual?

 

We are factual. We are not anti-theistic. People can do what they want. 

 

Dd is interested in history and archaeology, teaching her in a mocking or one sided manner would not be conducive to a good learning environment for her.

[Mom2OandE]

Am I the only Christian who takes Happy Holidays to mean Happy Thanksgiving/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year? I start hearing it every year in November and it usually last until Jan 3rd or so.

 

I think it's a big fuss over nothing. Some people just aren't happy unless they are complaining.

[Amy in NH]

Our local (secular) homeschool group's holiday parties ended the year the Catholic family insisted that every activity had to be Christian or Christmas-only. 

[Slartibartfast]

Our local (secular) homeschool group's holiday parties ended the year the Catholic family insisted that every activity had to be Christian or Christmas-only. 

 

Why not just say no? "NO!" Then do what you want? It is a secular group isn't it? Why does one family get to decide?

[Slartibartfast]

I think it's a big fuss over nothing. Some people just aren't happy unless they are complaining.

 

Agreed.

[nmoira]

There are  different definitions, you are correct. With the inclusion of  the word "REASON" it is pretty clear which one is intended. If Bill wants to rail against a definition he should probably take that fight to Merriam-Websters or Oxford instead of in a thread. I don't make definitions up.

 

Those hellfire signs are very popular. I see quite a few here that farmers put up by their fields. On my drive through the south when going home for holidays I see a ton. I could probably put together quite the damnation montage if people wanted, I could put it to music. :lol: I don't intend to defend those. I don't know what the Uncle Sam billboard is. 

 

I disagree with the bolded because I see it as reason as opposed to faith. There's a supernatural element in mythology and religion which by definition requires faith.

 

You could post your montage to YouTube. :D

 

Here's the Uncle Sam billboard... the message changes regularly. I'm not embedding the picture.

 

http://unclesamsbackyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mexicans1.jpg

[albeto.]

We are factual. We are not anti-theistic. People can do what they want

 

Dd is interested in history and archaeology, teaching her in a mocking or one sided manner would not be conducive to a good learning environment for her.

 

Same here, so why would identifying "myth" over the nativity scene be considered mockery?

 

If teaching the birth of Zeus as a mythological story isn't mockery, why is teaching the birth of Jesus as mythological considered a mockery? When it's based on facts and historical knowledge, it's not mockery, it's factual. 

 

If you disagree with that, does it make my position a mockery? Because that suggests to me mockery is defined by how the recipient feels based on their own faith, not defined by ridiculing and mocking based on an attempt to belittle or demean. 

[unsinkable]

I think she means that the use of the Greek Gods as a source for a fictional series could be seen as mocking something sacred. IMO, no, it doesn't (though depictions might), but then there was not a tradition in Greek culture for only portraying the Gods in a sacred, inerrant, manner. The vast majority of what we know of them comes from exactly the same kinds of sources---popular plays, songs, stories. There's both no tradition of a single unalterable interpretation nor of imitatio dei, as there is in Christianity. Think of "Dogma" as an example of a form of popular entertainment that some see as objectionable because it doesn't give what they deem to be proper respect to Jesus.

I took it as the actual character from the book mocking the other character.

 

If you mean in general, does the existence of a series of fictional books that propose that the Greek gods exist and are interacting with humans, mock the Greek gods? Then my answer is No.

 

I hadn't heard of the movie Dogma.

[TechWife]

I see a lot of Merry XMas around here and hear a lot of Happy Holidays. The Happy Holidays doesn't annoy me, but the Xmas does. I don't see a need to X out the word Christ in Christmas. That seems pointed and nasty. I say Happy Holidays because I'm not hugely into Christmas and wasn't raised that way but then I'm using a completely different greeting, not trying to scratch out (and really Xmas looks ridiculous anyway) someone elses word because I don't like it.

 

I think you are misunderstanding the abbreviation "X-Mas," it  is perfectly acceptable. The X represents the first letter of the name "Christ" when it is written in the Greek. It has been around for generations, at least. 

\

Jesus does not care about stores. I'm pretty sure the mass consumerism and materialism would make him sick. So I don't think he gives a flying flip what people say to you as you exit a store.

... 

I'm just really having a hard time with this. So much sorrow, so much dire need in the world, and Christians, supposed followers of Christ- the man who gave everything he had and laid down his life for those in need- are choosing to spend time and energy trying to get private companies to say different words to them.

 

 

I agree! 

 

I suppose that spending a few years in a post-Soviet country where many religious and cultural holidays were actually outlawed for decades makes me see people who think that Christmas is threatened in the US as being a little hysterical.

 

Ayup! There are also many other countries today that have a state religion other than Christianity and I imagine celebrating Christmas might be frowned upon at the very least. 

 

What does an old fashioned celebration of the birth of Christ look like?

 

I'm not sure if it's old fashioned, but I'd love to share how we celebrate a Christ centered Christmas in our home, if you're interested. Your question wasn't addressed to me and I'm not sure if that's what you'd be interested in hearing about. Just let me know, I'm fine, either way. 

 

I don't mean to poke at a nerve, so if you don't want to reply, I'll understand, but I'm curious about this idea that there is so little tolerance for Christianity. More than 3/4 of Americans identify as Christians. Congress is comprised of mostly Christians, churches and Christian organizations lobby for public policy to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars per year to motivate laws that reflect Christian beliefs (such as limitations on marriage, school education, etc). In what way do you see intolerance? Or are you referring to personal experiences, like fewer people supporting Christian rhetoric? Can you help me understand?

 

I think that there is a difference between a cultural Christian and a practicing Christian. Many people identify themselves as "Christian" but don't actually have a belief system based upon Christian teaching. 

 

 

I will never understand the outrage some of you feel at having someone wish you happiness for a few extra days during the winter.

Me, either! If people want to spread greetings my way, I'm happy to accept them! 

[Slartibartfast]

I disagree with the bolded because I see it as reason as opposed to faith. There's a supernatural element in mythology and religion which by definition requires faith.

 

You could post your montage to YouTube. :D

 

Here's the Uncle Sam billboard... the message changed regularly. I'm not embedding the picture.

 

http://unclesamsbackyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mexicans1.jpg

 

I don't believe reason and faith are mutually exclusive.

 

If I make a montage I will youtube it. Some of the signs are very....interesting.

 

Wow! I hadn't seen that sign! What is the purpose of this? Why would someone do that!

[SKL]

So what do people think would be better - a society that openly tolerates and respects different beliefs / traditions, or one that doesn't respect any?  Personally I prefer the former.  Tolerating attacks on / overt disrespect for ANY religion - Christianity, Islam, or any other - only supports the mindset that intolerance is OK.  Thus I don't see how anyone can complain about Christians dissing Jews or Muslims or atheists when they themselves ridicule Christians.

[Library Momma]

Am I the only Christian who takes Happy Holidays to mean Happy Thanksgiving/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year? I start hearing it every year in November and it usually last until Jan 3rd or so.

 

I think it's a big fuss over nothing. Some people just aren't happy unless they are complaining.

 

I've always thought this and I am Jewish!

[LucyStoner]

I disagree with the bolded because I see it as reason as opposed to faith. There's a supernatural element in mythology and religion which by definition requires faith.

 

You could post your montage to YouTube. :D

 

Here's the Uncle Sam billboard... the message changed regularly. I'm not embedding the picture.

 

http://unclesamsbackyard.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mexicans1.jpg

Centralia/Chehalis at its finest! I used to go there with a school group to teach student led poetry workshops. That sign is a highlight of the trip. The messages have been really vile, even more so than that example. As I am sure you well know. I wasn't there during the Obama campaign but I can imagine. Oh my goodness.

[TechWife]

If it's okay to push just a little more, do you have an opinion as to why society is trying to edge Christianity out of the mainstream?

 

I do, but again, I don't want to presume you want to hear from me. Let me know if you want me to respond (it will probably be late this afternoon or this evening before I get back).

[KarenNC]

 

 

Happy Holidays to me is either one or two things. One, it can be an effort to be inclusive of all winter holidays. Retailers use "happy holidays" to try to be inclusive, or maybe it's used by a person offering general well-wishes without knowing what the person celebrates exactly. Two, it's used to celebrate Christmas in an arena in which it should not be celebrated by pretending the stuff is HOLIDAY decor, not CHRISTMAS decor. One of my friends coordinates a huge "holiday" display in her kids' public elementary school cafeteria every year. It's totally Christmas. Christmas trees, reindeer, Santa. Maybe they use pinks and purples and blues instead of red and green. She has a manger up this year that also doubles as Santa's Workshop if anyone asks. Wink wink. There's not a tiny menorah or token Kwanzaa lamp anywhere, you know, which would completely make it okay... I really can't imagine being a Jewish (or whatever) kid in the cafeteria throughout the month of December. Hello, you don't belong here! But it's a HOLIDAY display, and anyone who complains is accused of waging a war on Christmas/Christians. *bangs head on desk*

 

This really reminds me of the opening sequence of the movie "Hebrew Hammer" showing "Hanukkah Past" (the movie, just so everyone knows, is from Comedy Central, pretty equally mocking of the stereotypes of most religions, Hanukkah/Christmas/Kwanzaa/Santa, etc, very much R-rated, and imo really hilarious).

[SKL]

Am I the only Christian who takes Happy Holidays to mean Happy Thanksgiving/Merry Christmas/Happy New Year? I start hearing it every year in November and it usually last until Jan 3rd or so.

 

I though the same when I was young and innocent, LOL.  Same for "Seasons' Greetings."  Then I found out people were being sued and fired for daring to say Merry Christmas in the weeks approaching that holiday.  Innocence lost ....

 

[albeto.]

I do, but again, I don't want to presume you want to hear from me. Let me know if you want me to respond (it will probably be late this afternoon or this evening before I get back).

 

Sure!

[zoobie]

I though the same when I was young and innocent, LOL.  Same for "Seasons' Greetings."  Then I found out people were being sued and fired for daring to say Merry Christmas in the weeks approaching that holiday.  Innocence lost ....

 

 

Sued and fired? Who?

[Slartibartfast]

Same here, so why would identifying "myth" over the nativity scene be considered mockery?

 

If teaching the birth of Zeus as a mythological story isn't mockery, why is teaching the birth of Jesus as mythological considered a mockery? When it's based on facts and historical knowledge, it's not mockery, it's factual. 

 

If you disagree with that, does it make my position a mockery? Because that suggests to me mockery is defined by how the recipient feels based on their own faith, not defined by ridiculing and mocking based on an attempt to belittle or demean. 

 

I said I did not teach it as a mockery so why are you asking me why it is ok to teach it as a mockery? I don't believe it is ok to mock other faiths. This includes things I don't believe in, not just my own beliefs.

 

If a similar thing was posted over any religious symbol I would have similar objections. It doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about my faith but respect of faith in general. 

 

[TechWife]

Yay! Next we should share a drink!

 

 

Add a couple of cupcakes and you can count me in!   :D

 

Can I come? I can ride my bike over.

[LucyStoner]

Wow! I hadn't seen that sign! What is the purpose of this? Why would someone do that!

The legend has it that the sign was erected when a farmer was upset about the placement of I-5 and how he was compensated for the land use. I have no idea if that is correct or not but travelers on I-5 have been witness to 2 ever changing messages of vitriol and quite often racism ever since I've been riding that route. I used to write down whatever it was when we passed it (as a teenager).

[Slartibartfast]

The legend has it that the sign was erected when a farmer was upset about the placement of I-5 and how he was compensated for the land use. I have no idea if that is correct or not but travelers on I-5 have been witness to 2 ever changing messages of vitriol and quite often racism ever since I've been riding that route. I used to write down whatever it was when we passed it (as a teenager).

  :ohmy: 

[Scrub Jay]

Well, the American Atheists organization for one.  (See photo posted by Albeto above for evidence, as well as link posted by KarenNC)  They're mocking a religion, not specific people. Some might nitpick over the definition of and practices of "mocking," but, durnit, this ad definitely mocks the alleged unreasonabless of a  religion made up of those who believe in Christ and the reason for the development of the Christmas celebration. No bones about it. 

 

I don't like their ad and find stuff like that obnoxious.  But I also find all ads telling me I am going to hell because I don't believe in such and such just as obnoxious.  And I am pretty sure the latter is much more accepted in the U.S.

 

[Catwoman]

Can I come? I can ride my bike over.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Sure! The more the merrier!!! :)

 

But it's kinda snowy and icy today for the whole bike thing. I'll be sure to have some dry clothes for you when you get here! (And you'll probably be needing hot chocolate as well...)

 

And I'll try not to gloat when you beg me to give you a ride home in my warm, dry car... ;)

[Slartibartfast]

I don't like their ad and find stuff like that obnoxious.  But I also find all ads telling me I am going to hell because I don't believe in such and such just as obnoxious.  And I am pretty sure the latter is much more accepted in the U.S.

 

 

I agree they are equally obnoxious.

[TechWife]

But to me it's not. I feel like we are educated (or what will become indoctrinated) into tolerating other religions and points of view, while society becomes less tolerant of Christianity. For instance, mock Muslims and it'll wind up being a hate crime, but Christians will always be fair game. It's the direction we are headed as a country.

 

I'm NOT saying it's ok to mock any religion, but I AM saying people mock Christianity all the time and it is considered their freedom of speech. The double standard is there.

 

I'm not responding to you personally, but to the idea you're presenting here.

 

As a Christian, I think by not believing deeply and living out our faith to the fullest extent possible, Christians often are the worst at mocking Christianity. All too often, we say one thing, yet do another. We fail at representing Christ in our culture as a whole, not just in the public or political arenas, but to our neighbors and friends. I firmly believe that the Old Testament commandment "Do not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain" isn't referring to cursing, but to identifying ourselves with Him without have a true belief that is backed up by the way we live our lives. 

[nmoira]

Wow! I hadn't seen that sign! What is the purpose of this? Why would someone do that!

 

The original guy died about ten years ago (obit linked), and I don't know who is in charge of it now. 

[albeto.]

I said I did not teach it as a mockery so why are you asking me why it is ok to teach it as a mockery?

 

Because of a comment you made earlier, in which you suggested putting the word "myth" over religious images is not respectful, or anti-religious. Because that's a billboard with limited space and time to make a point, I wonder if the concept of teaching a religious idea as mythological is itself disrespectful, or if it's disrespectful to teach the Christian religious idea is mythological.

 

I don't believe it is ok to mock other faiths. This includes things I don't believe in, not just my own beliefs.

 

I am very opposed to mocking people's beliefs.

 

That's what I'm trying to understand - where is the line drawn with regard to teaching facts and inappropriate offense. If it's a personal line, then perhaps you can see why others can't be expected to respect it, not because they don't respect you, but because it's the nature of the beast. To oppose a religious claim is bound to offend people who believe that claim, but it's not a matter of mockery or ridicule to oppose a religious claim. That's what I'm trying to say, and I wonder where we part ways with regard to this issue. 

[Catwoman]

I don't like their ad and find stuff like that obnoxious. But I also find all ads telling me I am going to hell because I don't believe in such and such just as obnoxious. And I am pretty sure the latter is much more accepted in the U.S.

 

:iagree:

 

I never see any of that stuff where I live, but I wouldn't like any of the extremist messages, no matter which "side" they're coming from.

 

Believe what you want to believe, or don't believe in anything, but keep it to yourself. I don't need to hear about it.

[albeto.]

Can I come? I can ride my bike over.

 

Yes! Haters gonna hate, so we'll just drink and have a good time and leave all the unpleasantries outside!

 

[Catwoman]

Yes! Haters gonna hate, so we'll just drink and have a good time and leave all the unpleasantries outside!

 

I wanted to like this, but apparently I am already out of Likes for the day.

 

On a more positive note, by quoting this, we all get to see PeeWee Herman on his bike twice instead of once. :)

[TechWife]

 

To much angst about the trappings when we Christians should be meditating on the meaning.

Yes!

 

Well, I think Easter is the most important Christian holiday.  

I agree! Although, without the Incarnation, we wouldn't have the Resurrection. Both are a fulfillment of prophecy.