Piccolo and Flute advice wanted

[Arcadia]

My small for age turning 8 boy has been eyeing a piccolo for many months.  He thinks the flute is too big for him. Hubby thinks the piccolo's range is limited compared to the flute.  (ETA: older pick piccolo too) Hubby plays the clarinet.   There are also many music schools here that have flute and piccolo instructors for their age so I'm not worried about that part. They play the piano.

 

What are decent entry level piccolo?

Do piccolo players also play the flute for more range?  As in they end up with both instruments?

Any maintenance cost other than changing of pads?

 

ETA:

I realised I have an embarrassing array of woodwind instruments already (chromatic harmonica, recorder, pennywhistle, bamboo flute, pan flute, clarinet). The only instruments not represented in my home is the brass family and I was a horn player in school band  :)

 

ETA:

Looks like flute would be the sensible choice to buy first. Aiming for their birthdays in December.

[blondeviolin]

Most piccolo players I know began playing flute and then picked up the picc. In an orchestra setting, piccolo isn't written for each piece so when there is piccolo, a flutist plays the piccolo part. For my sister, picking up the piccolo after becoming very accomplished with the flute was not very difficult at all.

 

So, I'd say he'll probably want to start with the flute.

[FaithManor]

He needs to begin with the flute. Piccolo is actually a more difficult embouchure (mouth position) to learn, much more difficult.

 

I would suggest that at 8, if his arms aren't long enough to manage the flute, that you begin with recorder. It may sound boring, but once one progresses past a beginner recorder, there is alto, tenor, and bass to master plus interesting music from the Renaissance/Baroque era to play. We had a recorder ensemble (they played wood instruments, not plastic so the tone was mellow vs. the harshness of those plastic ones oft times used in general music classes) at the Lutheran School and they were fantastic. People raved about the beautiful music they produced and especially at Christmas time. Soprano recorders are C instruments, the same as flutes, some fingerings are similar even though it is held like a clarinet. For a young child, it's a nice introduction to a wind instrument.

 

As his arms grow, he can move to the flute and since he'll have already learned to read treble clef and finger an open-hole instrument, he'll move quickly through the beginner books since embouchure will be the main difficult concept to learn. The added benefit is that he can move from a closed hole beginner flute such as an Armstrong or Gemeinhardt to an open hole, such as a Yamaha which has a much better tone.

 

Faith

[Dmmetler]

If the problem is arm length, check for a flute with both curved and straight headjoints. That can help small players a lot. Gemeinhardt has a good combo available for their student model which, with the two headjoints, will take most kids through the beginner/intermediate levels.  Jupiter has one designed for Suzuki flute students (who start the actual instrument as early as age 4-5) that not only has a curved headjoint, but a shorter foot and smaller key length (but you give up some notes on both extremes of the range, so you would want to move to a different flute when the hands are big enough).

 

In general, the smaller the wind instrument is, the harder it is to play and play in tune. Piccolo requires a much stronger airstream than flute-it's not an instrument for a beginner. I don't know that I've ever seen a child be successful who started on the smaller, secondary instrument (piccolo, Eb clarinet, Soprano saxophone, piccolo trumpet) because in all cases, they really are harder to control and get a good sound out of than their larger counterparts. Add that you have no parts in beginning band/orchestra music, so the beginner either has to learn to transpose or play music not written for the instrument, and it just plain is setting the child up for failure.

 

 

 

[Hypatia.]

I'm just seconding the advice given so far.  I played flute for a few years before beginning to play the piccolo.  I'm starting playing again now after *ahem* several years of not playing and while it's been easy to pick up the flute again, I sound horrible on the piccolo because my embouchure is weak.  The advice of looking for a flute with a curved headjoint is good.

[TrixieB]

If the problem is arm length, check for a flute with both curved and straight headjoints. That can help small players a lot. Gemeinhardt has a good combo available for their student model which, with the two headjoints, will take most kids through the beginner/intermediate levels.  Jupiter has one designed for Suzuki flute students (who start the actual instrument as early as age 4-5) that not only has a curved headjoint, but a shorter foot and smaller key length (but you give up some notes on both extremes of the range, so you would want to move to a different flute when the hands are big enough).

 

In general, the smaller the wind instrument is, the harder it is to play and play in tune. Piccolo requires a much stronger airstream than flute-it's not an instrument for a beginner. I don't know that I've ever seen a child be successful who started on the smaller, secondary instrument (piccolo, Eb clarinet, Soprano saxophone, piccolo trumpet) because in all cases, they really are harder to control and get a good sound out of than their larger counterparts. Add that you have no parts in beginning band/orchestra music, so the beginner either has to learn to transpose or play music not written for the instrument, and it just plain is setting the child up for failure.

 

Agreeing with this, especially the second paragraph.

 

And you will VERY quickly tire of hearing piccolo practice.  It is... piercing.  I will be very happy after the upcoming concert, when I no longer have to hear the piccolo solo rehearsed every day.  Really, I shouldn't complain, because after spending $$ on the piccolo I'm glad it's getting plenty of use, but my eardrums...

[Arcadia]

 

As his arms grow, he can move to the flute and since he'll have already learned to read treble clef and finger an open-hole instrument, he'll move quickly through the beginner books since embouchure will be the main difficult concept to learn. The added benefit is that he can move from a closed hole beginner flute such as an Armstrong or Gemeinhardt to an open hole, such as a Yamaha which has a much better tone.

 

Faith

 

 

I owned a Yamaha student flute when I took lessons for a year while an undergrad. I had given that flute away.  He knows how to play a recorder. We have a recorder, a pennywhistle, a pan flute, chromatic harmonica and a bamboo (Chinese) flute.

 

Should I get a Yamaha again?

If the problem is arm length, check for a flute with both curved and straight headjoints.

We'll be checking them out at the music store.  Older's arm length is longer than required.  Younger's arm length is short by about 1cm.

 

ETA:

we saw a YouTube video of the curved headjoints.  Didn't know those exist :)

[gardenmom5]

my son wanted to do piccolo.  the instructor insisted he start with flute because it's easier to learn first, and then switch.

[Tammi K]

I agree with previous posters. A piccolo is harder to play. You need better control of your embouchure. It takes more 'work' to play. 

Flute is beginner's instrument.

 

edit: spelling

[SadieMarie]

I played flute first and them piccolo. The piccolo is much more difficult to play. I am not an expert by any means but I think it would be really hard to start with a piccolo.

[Heatherwith4]

I'm one more former-flute and piccolo player who agrees with starting the flute first. The piccolo is tough, and to be honest, I hated playing it in concert band. It was fun playing in marching band, because I could actually be heard. It's so shrill, though.

[mamajudy]

I was 8 when I started playing the flute, and I remember the thing feeling awfully long. I didn't start piccolo until I was 13. It was much more difficult to play. Definitely not for a beginner. He would be lucky to get a sound out of the thing, let alone make music. The flute is a beautiful instrument, and after 45 years of playing, I still enjoy it. Has your son actually tried holding a flute to see if it's too long? If there's no way he can manage it, check out the curved head joints if he wants to start now, and save the piccolo for when he's more accomplished. He will be happier, and so will your ears! :-)

[Arcadia]

I'm one more former-flute and piccolo player who agrees with starting the flute first. The piccolo is tough, and to be honest, I hated playing it in concert band. It was fun playing in marching band, because I could actually be heard. It's so shrill, though.

My boys first impression of the piccolo was in a wind quintet performance at the library :)  The flutist played both the flute and piccolo.

[KrissiK]

I played flute first and then picked up the piccolo. I love playing the piccolo. It was like getting into a little sports car after driving around a big ol' SUV. I don't think I would have started with a piccolo.

[Wilma]

Piccolos are cute! But not a beginner's instrument. 

 

I second the idea of some serious recorder work if his arms just won't manage a flute yet.

[Mrs Mungo]

My dd started with a curved head flute so that she didn't have to stretch her hands too much. You don't want to incorporate bad habits up front.

 

I agree that the piccolo is something most people pick up after they learn flute.

[Beth in OH]

If and when your ds does pick up the piccolo, make sure he wears earplugs every time he plays.  The high pitch can damage hearing very quickly.  Piccolo players (and those seated next to them) even wear earplugs during concerts.  You can have an audiologist make a custom pair, or you can buy over the counter like these.

[MusicianMatt]

Wait until he gets a little older, like 9 or 10.  Some 8 year olds can't focus long enough to read music and stick with it.  There is a book called "the right instrument for your child by atarah ben-tovim" read this and see if flute or piccolo is the right instrument for your child.

[I talk to the trees]

If and when your ds does pick up the piccolo, make sure he wears earplugs every time he plays.  The high pitch can damage hearing very quickly.  Piccolo players (and those seated next to them) even wear earplugs during concerts.  You can have an audiologist make a custom pair, or you can buy over the counter like these.

 

Can I like this post more than once, please? That tiny pipe packs a punch! I keep an earplug in my piccolo case for my right ear when I know I am going to be practicing for long periods.

 

Oh, and to answer the OP's question: Flute first, then picc. Fingerings are the same, but he needs the foundation of a strong flute embouchure before trying to play the piccolo. If you are concerned about arm length, check out the flutes with a curved headjoint. Fluteworld.com has a pretty good selection. Eventually, if he sticks with it, he will need to take up the piccolo, since parts are often doubled. For example, you might see a part that is marked 3rd flute/piccolo. That means the part swaps back and forth between flute and piccolo. 

 

Like all woodwind instruments, both the flute and the piccolo will need regular cleanings and replacement of pads and corks (and, once in a while, springs), but with regular care, the instruments will last for many years. And the good news is that he'll never have to buy or make reeds!

 

Good luck to your ds as he begins his musical journey!

[Arcadia]

If and when your ds does pick up the piccolo, make sure he wears earplugs every time he plays.  The high pitch can damage hearing very quickly.  Piccolo players (and those seated next to them) even wear earplugs during concerts.  You can have an audiologist make a custom pair, or you can buy over the counter like these.

 

Thanks for the warning.  I have never thought about that but hubby has been playing the piano more and blowing his clarinet less.  Maybe hubby needs a set of ear plugs for his clarinet practice too.

Wait until he gets a little older, like 9 or 10.  Some 8 year olds can't focus long enough to read music and stick with it.  There is a book called "the right instrument for your child by atarah ben-tovim" read this and see if flute or piccolo is the right instrument for your child.

He has the patience to read piano music scores and play with both hands.  He also has the patience to tune and bow his own 1/4 size violin.  He can now play/blow a tune on the harmonica.   I had one year of flute lessons as an adult, if he gives up, I'll just take over.  I have read the book but nothing beats letting my kids lose at a music store that caters to the orchestra  :)

 

Good luck on your music scholarship planning and search.

 

 

Like all woodwind instruments, both the flute and the piccolo will need regular cleanings and replacement of pads and corks (and, once in a while, springs), but with regular care, the instruments will last for many years. And the good news is that he'll never have to buy or make reeds!

Hubby plays the clarinet and is way too familiar with reeds :lol:

[Susan in TN]

I believe one of the main issues with starting a wind instrument early is the inability of a younger child to have the breath support needed to sustain notes, ESPECIALLY on flute.  Unless he is an active/competitive swimmer or long distance runner, it's not likely that his lungs are ready for a wind instrument.  I agree that he should start with the recorder, mountain ocarina, penny whistle, etc. for a year or two.  Learning those instruments and basic notes and rhythms will likely serve him better in the long run. 

[Arcadia]

We went to a music store that caters to school band today. My 8 year old arms are more than long enough for a straight Yamaha flute. My 7 year old tried a Jupiter flute with a curved head joint. His arm length is slightly short of a straight. We haven't decided on what to get.

Now my hubby is eyeing an alto saxophone. My house is overrun with musical instruments :)

[SweetMissMagnolia]

not an expert by any means-just remember my middle school experience-----started with flute first then learned piccolo for certain parts when needed....hoping to purchase a good flute and piccolo sometime soon just to refresh and enjoy playing again.....

[MusicianMatt]

Thanks for the warning.  I have never thought about that but hubby has been playing the piano more and blowing his clarinet less.  Maybe hubby needs a set of ear plugs for his clarinet practice too.

He has the patience to read piano music scores and play with both hands.  He also has the patience to tune and bow his own 1/4 size violin.  He can now play/blow a tune on the harmonica.   I had one year of flute lessons as an adult, if he gives up, I'll just take over.  I have read the book but nothing beats letting my kids lose at a music store that caters to the orchestra  :)

 

Good luck on your music scholarship planning and search.

 

Hubby plays the clarinet and is way too familiar with reeds :lol:

Ah okay, then he is DEFINITELY ready for the flute.  Maybe just some advice, before he gets the flute bring him to a music store and ask for him to try out any instruments.  They should let him, since he would be the buyer.  Let him try out them all so he doesn't buy the flute and then go "Man, I wish I bought the (clarinet, french horn, sax etc).  I remember getting my instrument... I was like a little kid in a candy shop :)

[Arcadia]

Maybe just some advice, before he gets the flute bring him to a music store and ask for him to try out any instruments. They should let him, since he would be the buyer. Let him try out them all so he doesn't buy the flute and then go "Man, I wish I bought the (clarinet, french horn, sax etc). I remember getting my instrument... I was like a little kid in a candy shop :)

We went to a music store and he tried the Jupiter Flute and Yamaha Flute. Hubby has a Buffet Bb Clarinet and played in high school band and Navy band. My kids and hubby had a blast.

 

Tomorrow we are going to an instrument "petting zoo" (get to try different band instruments) at a library kids event. We are looking forward to that.

[momacacia]

My 8yo started flute with a bent head at 7yo (Suzuki method) and we've really enjoyed. She still uses the bent head and will for a while I suspect. But uses the foot joint now. She started with just the head joint and body, once she got the blowing/embouchure down, and added the foot joint a few months ago.

[MusicianMatt]

Ahhhh that's so cool! Have fun... I wish my town or county had that stuff! Well have fun... Maybe you can get an instrument as well haha! Well, if you like music and instruments. and Wow!!!! Navy Band is considered one of the best bands around!