Smarmy self-righteousness? Check!

[Catwoman]

Im still baffled that people arent seeing a difference in kids clowning around at the beach and sexually suggestive poses...

I mean, if she had pics of her boys in their Calvins, in dim lighting with some bedroom eyes going on, THEN we might have something.

I don't think anyone though the photo of the boys was suggestive or inappropriate.

 

I just thought it was pretty ironic that a mom posting about the evils of scantily clad girls would post a photo of her scantily clad sons as part of the same blog post.

[Miss Marple]

Im still baffled that people arent seeing a difference in kids clowning around at the beach and sexually suggestive poses...

I mean, if she had pics of her boys in their Calvins, in dim lighting with some bedroom eyes going on, THEN we might have something.

I'm baffled as well.  While I understand the desire to make all things equal, the beach picture is not equivalent to a sexually suggestive pose in a bedroom in pjs (with or without a bra).   

[Mrs Mungo]

Im still baffled that people arent seeing a difference in kids clowning around at the beach and sexually suggestive poses...

I mean, if she had pics of her boys in their Calvins, in dim lighting with some bedroom eyes going on, THEN we might have something.

 

Because her post implies any photo of a girl that is not fully clothed=a suggestive photo of said girl. My girls have photos of themselves on the beach in swimsuits. It *feels like* she might find them suggestive, when they are just normal photos of girls. She seemed to imply that taking a photo in your bedroom and posting it is wrong, period. She seemed to imply that a photo of a girl in pajamas (where she is fully dressed, save maybe a bra) is suggestive. Maybe she meant something different, but a lot of people seem to think she was implying those things. 

[Miss Marple]

I'm baffled that people think a girl fully dressed without a bra on is sexually suggestive.

 

For that matter, a gal in a towel making a stupid duck face is just as much clowning around as those boys making muscle poses on the beach. Only the girl is more covered.

I agree...but I think it was the pose the girl was striking that added the sexual element to which Mrs. Hall objected.  Stupid pics are just that...stupid pics.  But some of the pics that find their way onto my FB wall look like something one would send in to audition for an upcoming porn shoot.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree...but I think it was the pose the girl was striking that added the sexual element to which Mrs. Hall objected.  Stupid pics are just that...stupid pics.  But some of the pics that find their way onto my FB wall look like something one would send in to audition for an upcoming porn shoot.

 

I just don't see that with my kids' friends. Maybe it's just the circles they run in? The types of kids they are friends with? I don't know. 

 

On the OTHER hand? My niece is 11. Half of *her* facebook friends that are her age (in elementary school) have profile pics with suggestive poses. So, it smacks of immaturity to me.

[Erin]

Bur she didn't actually SAY any of that.

in fact, she was pretty clear at the very beginning of the post that she was talking about a girl, scantilly dressed, in a back-arched-on-the-bed pose... She set the tone pretty plainly, from what i could tell

[Erin]

quadruple post :rolleyes:

[PeacefulChaos]

I just don't see that with my kids' friends. Maybe it's just the circles they run in? The types of kids they are friends with? I don't know. 

 

On the OTHER hand? My niece is 11. Half of *her* facebook friends that are her age (in elementary school) have profile pics with suggestive poses. So, it smacks of immaturity to me.

I only have one friend who does the poses that 'Mrs. Hall' is talking about.  Wearing whatever it is she's wearing, it really doesn't matter - it's the pose more than anything else.  

Well, and knowing her.  :(  And you're right, it's an immaturity (and, in some cases, self-confidence) thing.

[Erin]

first it tells me it can't post, then it posts repeatedly...

[Erin]

Aaargh!  Stupid phone.  

[Miss Marple]

I just don't see that with my kids' friends. Maybe it's just the circles they run in? The types of kids they are friends with? I don't know. 

 

On the OTHER hand? My niece is 11. Half of *her* facebook friends that are her age (in elementary school) have profile pics with suggestive poses. So, it smacks of immaturity to me.

I think immaturity is probably a big factor.  Young girls who want emulate what society considers "beautiful".  Unfortunately it comes off really bad and may end up haunting these girls for years to come.  I don't think the girls are wanting to incite lust in the young men who view it.  It think they just want to seem beautiful.  In the same way, boys showing their muscles on the beach is not to incite fantasies in the young women's minds but rather to seem strong and manly.  Often we moms overthink such issues and make more of it than there really is.  That's why I hate articles that make modesty out to be something *specific* because we cannot meet all people's standards.  Shoot, some men find feet sexy...but I don't want to give up my flip-flops.  And we really cannot be responsible for how everyone else thinks and feels...because there will always be someone who will find fault with it.  That's why I don't think anyone is responsible for my sons' morality except themselves.

[albeto.]

n/m

[Mrs Mungo]

Bur she didn't actually SAY any of that.

in fact, she was pretty clear at the very beginning of the post that she was talking about a girl, scantilly dressed, in a back-arched-on-the-bed pose... She set the tone pretty plainly, from what i could tell

 

Wow – you sure took a bunch of selfies in your skimpy pj’s this summer!  Your bedrooms are so cute!-->implication=taking photos in your PJs is wrong, taking photos in your bedroom is wrong

 

For one, it appears that you are not wearing a bra.-->not wearing a bra is wrong

 

I get it – you’re in your room, so you’re heading to bed, right? But then I can’t help but notice the red carpet pose, the extra-arched back, and the sultry pout.  What’s up? None of these positions is one I naturally assume before sleep, this I know.-->goofy poses (and some girls DO pose this way to be goofy, just like the muscle poses of the boys on the beach) for girls are wrong

 

take down the closed-door bedroom selfies that makes it too easy for friends to see you in only one dimension-->taking photos in your bedroom is wrong

[Mrs Mungo]

I think immaturity is probably a big factor.  Young girls who want emulate what society considers "beautiful".  Unfortunately it comes off really bad and may end up haunting these girls for years to come.  I don't think the girls are wanting to incite lust in the young men who view it.  It think they just want to seem beautiful.  In the same way, boys showing their muscles on the beach is not to incite fantasies in the young women's minds but rather to seem strong and manly.  Often we moms overthink such issues and make more of it than there really is.  That's why I hate articles that make modesty out to be something *specific* because we cannot meet all people's standards.  Shoot, some men find feet sexy...but I don't want to give up my flip-flops.  And we really cannot be responsible for how everyone else thinks and feels...because there will always be someone who will find fault with it.  That's why I don't think anyone is responsible for my sons' morality except themselves.

 

I agree on all points.

[Erin]

And I caught the "closed-door" part, rather than the bedroom.  

A closed door usually indicates s/he's doing something s/he shouldn't be...

[unsinkable]

Bur she didn't actually SAY any of that.

in fact, she was pretty clear at the very beginning of the post that she was talking about a girl, scantilly dressed, in a back-arched-on-the-bed pose... She set the tone pretty plainly, from what i could tell

Nope, not on the bed. She wrote:

 

 

"I think the boys notice other things. For one, it appears that you are not wearing a bra.

 

I get it – you’re in your room, so you’re heading to bed, right? But then I can’t help but notice the red carpet pose, the extra-arched back, and the sultry pout. What’s up? None of these positions is one I naturally assume before sleep, this I know."

 

Red carpet pose. Most people stand up on the red carpet.

 

So, IMO, it was a show-off, look at me pose, just like the show-off, look at us poses of her sons on the beach.

[Audrey]

She posts pics of her sons and describes in great detail what girls can't do or they won't get a shot at her precious darlings.

 

She's basically whoring out her half naked sons.

 

 

[unsinkable]

And I caught the "closed-door" part, rather than the bedroom.

A closed door usually indicates s/he's doing something s/he shouldn't be...

Not in our house it doesn't. In our house a closed door indicates that the dog is not welcome in the room/ on the bed.

 

:lol:

[Erin]

Maybe this is the real question:

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout?  

 

If you don't have any problems with it, I can see where there's just no common ground to be had.

 

 

 

Because for me, the simple answer is, No.  

(ETA:  I also don't want my son posting pictures of himself in his room, half dressed making bedroom eyes...)

 

OTOH, if either of my kids want to put up pics from the day in their swimming suits, on the beach, making silly poses (for their mother behind the camera no less), that is something else entirely.  

[Mrs Mungo]

And I caught the "closed-door" part, rather than the bedroom.  

A closed door usually indicates s/he's doing something s/he shouldn't be...

 

My 15 and 17 year old girls close their door when they don't want their brother in the room, when they are doing homework, while practicing musical instruments, while reading. Why should a teenaged (almost adult) girl not be able to close her bedroom door without an implication of wrong-doing?

[Mrs Mungo]

Maybe this is the real question:

 

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout?  

 

If you don't have any problems with it, I can see where there's just no common ground to be had.

 

 

 

Because for me, the simple answer is, No.  

OTOH, if either of my kids want to put up pics from the day in their swimming suits, on the beach, making silly poses (for their mother behind the camera no less), that is something else entirely.  

 

What I am saying is this: there is a LOT of *highly subjective* middle ground that is implicated when you are intentionally shaming *girls* and praising your half-naked, muscle-flexing boys. It makes you look bad. Photos intended to imply laughing at girls on a phone isn't any better. It's equally shaming and tacky.

 

This post that was posted above really nails it:

http://unchainedfaith.com/2013/09/04/fyi-if-youre-a-mom-of-teenage-boys/

[Erin]

So do you, or don't you, want your daughter posting such pictures?

[Mrs Mungo]

So do you, or don't you, want your daughter posting such pictures?

 

Posting WHAT such pictures?

 

There are pictures of my girls in swimsuits on the beach. They are definitely wearing less in those photos than when wearing their PJs.

 

There are pictures my girls have taken in their bedrooms.

 

Those things are both wrong (according to what she says) and supposedly make my daughters unfit for her son's friendship, which is fine, I don't want my girls to befriend (much less marry) boys who have been brought up on sexist tripe.

 

The idea of what is seductive and what is not is different in everybody's mind. That's why the blogger posted a photo of her half-dressed, muscle-flexing sons without a thought. 

 

I really think reading Lolita had a major, major impact on how I thought about this whole issue. Because a girl's dress and behavior can be slanted and made seductive and ugly no matter *what* she does.

[unsinkable]

Well, the beach muscle pose pictures are gone.

 

Girlfriend had visitors who found it to be a "grave lack of discernment" to post such beach pictures. She thanks them for their "counsel."

[Wheres Toto]

:iagree: I don't always wear one. My dds often wear just a cami under their shirts because they find bras uncomfortable too. I hate the things, and I've honestly never paid close enough attention to see if others are bothered by my not wearing one. If they are bothered, I guess I kind of think it's their problem instead of mine.

 

One of the worst parts of returning to work, for me, has been having to wear a bra every day.   Prior to that, I was probably at once or twice a month.

 

But even my oldest, who groans at me whenever I don't wear one, and often wears two (dance classes) doesn't wear a bra with her pj's.

 

Evidently all the bathing suit photos of her sons are down.  Both the original FYI post and the FYI #2 post have the same pictures now.

[Erin]

Posting WHAT such pictures?

 

 

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout? 

[MFG]

 

Evidently all the bathing suit photos of her sons are down. Both the original FYI post and the FYI #2 post have the same pictures now.

But doesn't she know that girls can't just UNSEE that picture of her boys in their low slung board shorts? That that image is in their minds FOREVER???

[Murphy101]

She posts pics of her sons and describes in great detail what girls can't do or they won't get a shot at her precious darlings.

 

She's basically whoring out her half naked sons.

Bless her heart. Yep. Pretty much. Though to be fair, she is going to have to do some major selling to get a gal to want judgement mother in law for life.

 

My 15 and 17 year old girls close their door when they don't want their brother in the room, when they are doing homework, while practicing musical instruments, while reading. Why should a teenaged (almost adult) girl not be able to close her bedroom door without an implication of wrong-doing?

The expression "behind closed doors" usually implies things done in private that we wouldn't want others to see or know about.

[happi duck]

I went to read the original to dh so he'd appreciate the parody and the original has been edited.  As pp mentioned the beach photos are gone but some of the wording has also been changed.  I think editing after something goes viral really muddies the water.

 

I guess this became a good example of once you post online it's out there.

[swellmomma]

Not in our house it doesn't. In our house a closed door indicates that the dog is not welcome in the room/ on the bed.

 

:lol:

 

That's what it means here too.  No cats/dogs in those rooms, the kids share rooms so doors are usually open, though dd keeps her door shut to keep the furry pets out of the room so they don't eat the reptiles living in lidless tanks, and the boys keep theirs shut because the dog barks at the guinea pig like crazy and then craps on the floor.  A closed door means a lot of things in this house (privacy, desire to be alone, protection away from furry pals) but doing something they shouldn't is not one of those things

 

[Murphy101]

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout?

Okay I don't know what freaky red carpet photos ya'll are seeing. But if you google it, the majority are NOT slut poses. Or even slut clothing. Most are pretty dadblum traditional and standard hand on hip, back arched, one knee slightly bent forward. Sure some aren't, but that is not at all what I think of when I think of "red carpet back arched pose".

 

Like these linked here from a simple google search for red carpet. (I can't figure how to link from iPad. Forgive me!)

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=672&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=iREpUvTrDsrq2AXLn4DwCw&q=red+carpet+dresses+2013&oq=red+carpet+&gs_l=img.1.2.0l10.21065.23208.0.26420.12.11.1.0.0.2.178.1064.7j4.11.0....0...1c.1.26.img..5.7.519.OUJLyizdP9I

 

Sultry look? What the heck does that even mean? What like Flynn's smoulder? And does anyone actually think it is sexy? I know none of the teens I've come across think duck face is actually sexy. It's a hey I'm being a dork silly thing to do they laugh about. And that stupid stuff was around when I was a teen too.

[Mrs Mungo]

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout? 

 

It is not relevant to the discussion at hand, and (to me) is not what was being described in the post, unless you are going for an ad-hominem attack rather than dealing with the real issue?

 

I read it as complaining about 1) photos girls who are half-dressed (that includes swimsuits, yes?), 2) girls who are in their bedrooms, 3) girls is suggestive poses (highly subjective), 4) duck faces (often used by girls to take goofy pictures, not intended to be seductive). I read these as OR situations, not that *every* photo contained *all* of these elements.

[Mrs Mungo]

Sultry look? What the heck does that even mean? What like Flynn's smoulder? And does anyone actually think it is sexy? I know none of the teens I've come across think duck face is actually sexy. It's a hey I'm being a dork silly thing to do they laugh about. And that stupid stuff was around when I was a teen too.

 

 

 

[mommymilkies]

And I caught the "closed-door" part, rather than the bedroom.  

A closed door usually indicates s/he's doing something s/he shouldn't be...

 

I am just a terrible, terrible person, then.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  And now I'm super paranoid about closing the stall door for the restroom and going in a doctor's office.  Should I keep the doors open when the a/c is on, too? Those are probably off limits now. 

It is not relevant to the discussion at hand, and (to me) is not what was being described in the post, unless you are going for an ad-hominem attack rather than dealing with the real issue?

 

I read it as complaining about 1) photos girls who are half-dressed (that includes swimsuits, yes?), 2) girls who are in their bedrooms, 3) girls is suggestive poses (highly subjective), 4) duck faces (often used by girls to take goofy pictures, not intended to be seductive). I read these as OR situations, not that *every* photo contained *all* of these elements.

This.  Not to mention, I hardly suggest my kids try to look gruesome and hide under a blanket when the camera comes out.  

 

The duck faces, though...that's just ugly, not seductive.  I'd probably teach them how to smile better for the camera.  :lol:

[Catwoman]

Not in our house it doesn't. In our house a closed door indicates that the dog is not welcome in the room/ on the bed.

 

:lol:

Especially if that dog is going to post sultry selfies on the Internet afterward. ;)

[mommymilkies]

Especially if that dog is going to post sultry selfies on the Internet afterward. ;)

Mine's the cat.  I would make a questionable pun on that joke, but instead, I'll leave it to your imagination.

[Pretty in Pink]

Unless the girl's ass is literally hanging out of her tap shorts or the shade of her nipple flesh is visible through her transparent camisole, who cares? It's dumb. These so-called "seductive" duck faces are the farthest thing from sexy. It's supposed to be a joke. Girls pose like that to be silly. It strikes me as immature but certainly not provocative. Are the teens in question tonguing lollipops or phallic-shaped objects suggestively? I guess that's sultry... :huh:

[mommymilkies]

Unless the girl's ass is literally hanging out of her tap shorts or the shade of her nipple flesh is visible through her transparent camisole, who cares? It's dumb. These so-called "seductive" duck faces are the farthest thing from sexy. It's supposed to be a joke. Girls pose like that to be silly. It strikes me as immature but certainly not provocative. Are the teens in question tonguing lollipops or phallic-shaped objects suggestively? I guess that's sultry... :huh:

I thought ice cream cones were the most evil?  :lol:

[Word Nerd]

And I thought the photos I take of my girls and nieces and nephews in their new Christmas jammies almost every year are cute and completely appropriate.

[El...]

"The worst manners is pointing out the poor manners of others."

That's a great quote.  I'm going to write that down.  So true!

[Mrs Mungo]

Unless the girl's ass is literally hanging out of her tap shorts or the shade of her nipple flesh is visible through her transparent camisole, who cares? It's dumb. These so-called "seductive" duck faces are the farthest thing from sexy. It's supposed to be a joke. Girls pose like that to be silly. It strikes me as immature but certainly not provocative. Are the teens in question tonguing lollipops or phallic-shaped objects suggestively? I guess that's sultry... :huh:

 

The only friend of my teens posing with an ice cream cone in their profile is a dude. So, make of that what you will. :P

 

And I thought the photos I take of my girls and nieces and nephews in their new Christmas jammies almost every year are cute and completely appropriate.

 

You probably caused them to be unfriended by morally upright humans.

[awisha.]

I find it creepy that she is apparently saying the onus is on girls to be in control of all males' thoughts. Because, you know, it's always the girl's fault -- she was asking for it.

 

Also, one strike and your out insofar as posting pictures go? Well, that's really modeling grace. NOT.

 

Gah.

 

I happened to find the parody post someone did pretty funny, although it offended others. So, if you click, be prepared to be offended: http://theirondaisywrites.wordpress.com/2013/09/04/fyi-if-youre-a-teenage-boy/

I died at the Easy A reference.

This was perfect and hilarious and perfect :D

 

(I'm talking about the blog btw)

[Catwoman]

I just love this thread. :001_wub:

 

I mean, I don't really care about the nipple-phobic Mrs. Hall. I just like being a part of a thread with the word SMARMY in the title.

 

Smarmy is such a fun word. :)

[unsinkable]

Especially if that dog is going to post sultry selfies on the Internet afterward. ;)

He probably would...if he had THUMBS!!!

 

In another tangent, sometimes i'll take a snack in my room if im reading or watching TV alone. If the dog knows I'm making a snack, and then i start walking to my room, i have to RACE him to my room and then slam the door if i dont feel like sharing.

 

I usually DO share, but sometimes I'm selfish. Then he waits outside my door and I feel like a bad dogmommy.

[awisha.]

The original blogger did a post before the FYI one andit includes pics of her kids at the beach. Why would she need to post more beach pics in a post thathas nothing to do with the beach??

[unsinkable]

Aaaaaaaaand cue Huff Post

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3874957

[Catwoman]

Aaaaaaaaand cue Huff Post

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3874957

It was only a matter of time. :)

[ErinE]

Maybe this is the real question:

 

Do you want your daughter to put a picture of herself in her room, half dressed, back arched, with a sultry pout?  

 

If you don't have any problems with it, I can see where there's just no common ground to be had.

 

 

 

Because for me, the simple answer is, No.  

(ETA:  I also don't want my son posting pictures of himself in his room, half dressed making bedroom eyes...)

 

OTOH, if either of my kids want to put up pics from the day in their swimming suits, on the beach, making silly poses (for their mother behind the camera no less), that is something else entirely.  

 

I don't support any of my children doing such a thing. Again, I feel that things shouldn't be on the internet unless you're willing to broadcast them across the nation and invite into your life total random strangers who will say mean things about your appearance. There is no privacy on the internet. I'll repeat it to my daughter and my sons.

 

But I would NEVER tell her not to do it so she wouldn't incite lust in her male friends. The reason behind the blog post was ludicrous. "I need to protect the purity of my sons' thoughts so begone with you, Jezebel." Does she think her sons are going to avoid those girls at school because mommy said so? She's put it into their heads that a girl's action and appearance controls a man's thoughts and behaviors. Personally, I wouldn't want my children going on a date with boys whose mother thinks this way. Because then whatever happens it wasn't his fault, she wasn't modest, she danced provocatively, she asked for it. Ridiculous.

[swellmomma]

I just love this thread. :001_wub:

 

I mean, I don't really care about the nipple-phobic Mrs. Hall. I just like being a part of a thread with the word SMARMY in the title.

 

Smarmy is such a fun word. :)

 

Everytime I read it I think of Smarmy Marmy from between the lions when I used to watch it with my oldest as a preschooler.

[Geo]

Oh goody, slut shaming! My favorite pastime!

I know someone who just did that on Facebook today, only she included her daughters in her fun. It started something like this: (posted in a GENERAL-YOU fashion)

 

"My daughters (11 and 15) and I have been looking through your photos today", and... went on to give a moral judgment of what they found. Now, I'm sure they only "meant to help young people be more like them", You know, "like people ought to be". (insert eye-rolling smiley)