Joel Osteen's wife assaulted a flight attendant?

[Amy loves Bud]

Lawsuit against Victoria Osteen

 

This is the first I've heard of it and I'm just...HUH? It sounds pretty frivolous, but stranger things have happened I guess.

[Riverfront Headmistress]

Joel and his wife make me :confused:

[Amy in Orlando]

Joel and his wife make me :confused:

 

Same here. VERY :confused::confused::confused:

[Kelli in TN]

Lawsuit against Victoria Osteen

 

This is the first I've heard of it and I'm just...HUH? It sounds pretty frivolous, but stranger things have happened I guess.

 

yep. Lots of people at my church are Joel Osteen fans. Being non-denominational charismatics I guess he is one of "us". I tried to read his book but it bored me silly.

 

I love my church, but sometimes I am a little shocked at what people gravitate towards. Joel Osteen. Benny Hinn. Some dude whose clothes are supposed to turn to gold dust while he preaches. Pulleeeeze.

 

How about some Mahaney? Or some Warnock podcasts? We can do better than some of the jokers folks are flocking to. There really are smart, honest, humble, seasoned Bible teachers who believe in those things that charismatics find important. Let's follow those teachers for a change.

 

I can't believe I just typed all that. I am probably going to get some nasty comments for that. That's okay. I can't say it at church so I guess you good folks will have to listen to it for a minute.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Lawsuit against Victoria Osteen

 

This is the first I've heard of it and I'm just...HUH? It sounds pretty frivolous, but stranger things have happened I guess.

 

"According to court documents, Brown claims that she suffers from anxiety and hemorrhoids because of the incident and said her faith was affected."

 

:huh:

 

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

[Karenciavo]

The woman wants 10% of V. Olsteen's net worth because she got hemorrhoids, anxiety and lose of faith from being elbowed in the chest? Give me a break.

[Kelli in TN]

"According to court documents, Brown claims that she suffers from anxiety and hemorrhoids because of the incident and said her faith was affected."

 

:huh:

 

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

Holy Smokes. Where did she hit her that caused hemorrhoids? And who would admit to hemorrhoids in court?

[Amy loves Bud]

"According to court documents, Brown claims that she suffers from anxiety and hemorrhoids because of the incident and said her faith was affected."

 

:huh:

 

 

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

I KNOW! I'm scouring the recesses of my brain to figure out who I can sue for *my* hemorrhoids! So far I've only got my children, and by extension Bud to blame. There has to be another connection somewhere.

 

Think, Amy, think.

[Amy loves Bud]

yep. Lots of people at my church are Joel Osteen fans. Being non-denominational charismatics I guess he is one of "us". I tried to read his book but it bored me silly.

 

I love my church, but sometimes I am a little shocked at what people gravitate towards. Joel Osteen. Benny Hinn. Some dude whose clothes are supposed to turn to gold dust while he preaches. Pulleeeeze.

 

How about some Mahaney? Or some Warnock podcasts? We can do better than some of the jokers folks are flocking to. There really are smart, honest, humble, seasoned Bible teachers who believe in those things that charismatics find important. Let's follow those teachers for a change.

 

I can't believe I just typed all that. I am probably going to get some nasty comments for that. That's okay. I can't say it at church so I guess you good folks will have to listen to it for a minute.

 

 

You go girl!

[Amy in Orlando]

Kelli! You crack me up sometimes. I am in total agreement and I won't tell anyone at your church.

 

Pam - that quote is absolutely slaying me. Hemorrhoids affect faith, huh? So there's a rule you can't bring a donut pillow to church?

[Jenny in Atl]

Hey, I will admit to having both of those for 10% of his $$. And it's from 2005?

:001_rolleyes:

[Retired]

:lol:

 

Oh Victoria must of kicked her in the butt pretty hard. I can't believe someone would tell a court they have hemorrhoids.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I KNOW! I'm scouring the recesses of my brain to figure out who I can sue for *my* hemorrhoids! So far I've only got my children, and by extension Bud to blame. There has to be another connection somewhere.

 

Think, Amy, think.

 

*I* know! Mine were irritated by rolling around on the floor howling with laughter while reading about the attendant's claims. OUch! :001_huh:

 

So you think I could blame the airline? Or something?

[*anj*]

Same here. VERY :confused::confused::confused:

Yes. Incredibly :confused::confused::confused::confused:.

[*anj*]

I KNOW! I'm scouring the recesses of my brain to figure out who I can sue for *my* hemorrhoids! So far I've only got my children, and by extension Bud to blame. There has to be another connection somewhere.

 

Think, Amy, think.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I wonder if I can sue my kids because they bring out the same things in me every single day.

Pshaw.

[stephanie]

Hemmoroids? Her faith? I don't get it. If your faith is affected by someone else's actions then I would have to question her faith. The hemmoroids I'm just not getting?

[*anj*]

Hemmoroids? Her faith? I don't get it. If your faith is affected by someone else's actions then I would have to question her faith. The hemmoroids I'm just not getting?

 

Maybe it hurts too much when she sits on a hard pew, so she can't go to church anymore. :001_huh: Who knows? There are wackos everywhere we turn! :glare:

[newlifemom]

hee hee hee hee haw haw haw snort snort lol roflol:rofl::smilielol5::smilielol5::laugh::laugh::smilielol5:

[newlifemom]

cant stop laughing, must sue someone for the hemooriods im getting..:lol::lol:

[cin]

In reading the article, there seems to be some questionable behaviors on both sides.

Brown had previously claimed she was attacked in another incident by an airport employee, according to a deposition she gave in the case.

 

And then this:

 

Victoria Osteen's lawyer, Rusty Hardin, says his client and her family left voluntarily. The incident delayed the flight about 2 1/2 hours.

 

Obviously something happened. Based on these 2 quotes and my gut instinct, I bet the stewardess is a provoker. Whether she means to or not. Something in her tone or body language causes other people to get upset. And then she can reap the benefits :glare:

 

 

But honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how one can get elbowed in the br3ast and get hemmorhoids. :confused: I see a very very slight connection between the two, but it doens't involve ELBOWing the br3ast. And I will stop now, before I get myself too deep.....:leaving:

[Soph the vet]

While I do think the flight attendant is a bit whacko, let's not forget that she's accusing Mrs Osteen of being verbally and physically abusive. This made big news in Houston, of course. Also, the Osteens did pay a $3000 fine to the FAA. I'm sure there's a hint of truth, somewhere, in the claim, however ridiculous it is. Personally, I think the Osteens are complete sheisters with their prosperity gospel.

 

:iagree:...at least I think I agree....if I knew for sure what a sheister was:lol:....then I would totally agree. I am going to Wikipedia for sheister!

[Soph the vet]

:iagree:...at least I think I agree....if I knew for sure what a sheister was:lol:....then I would totally agree. I am going to Wikipedia for sheister!

 

OK, Wiki says "sheister" is from German and means "incompetent, worthless person" or more literally "defecator". So the second definition would go along with the hemorrhoids theme here. As for incompetent, I would say they (Osteens) are incompetent at proclaiming the Gospel but I would not call them worthless because they are still people made in God's image. So I agree 67%:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

[Danestress]

and I was really surprised that Mrs. Olsteen wasn't arrested.

 

According to the other flight attendants and the passengers on the plane, Mrs. Olsteen did assault and elbow the flight attendant and was basically out of control. I think if she had been a man, she would have been escorted off the plane in cuffs.

 

If memory serves, she delayed the flight a couple of hours and just generally made a total @ss of herself.

 

Of course, the claim for damages is ridiculous and makes no sense. Damages should be based on the harm done - not the net worth of the defendant's husband. I think that's why the case ended up in court. I'm sure that if the flight attendant had just asked for medical bills and a couple thousand in "pain and suffering" the Olsteen's would have gladly settled it just to avoid this horrible publicity. It just goes to show that if you have significant assets, you are really a target.

[LizzyBee]

ROFL at some of your comments. When I read the article yesterday, I thought to myself that if having a little dispute with a passenger caused so much trauma for the flight attendant, she wasn't exactly stable to begin with.

 

Something happened, but if it wasn't severe enough to warrant criminal charges, then it surely can't warrant paying out 10% of V.O.'s net worth! And nearly anyone who is in the public eye is going to embarrass themselves at least once, probably more. I just don't think it's a big deal.

[Jackie in AR]

It just goes to show that if you have significant assets, you are really a target.

 

Yep.

 

If memory serves, she delayed the flight a couple of hours and just generally made a total @ss of herself.

 

Especially if you do this. :D

[Melinda in VT]

According to the other flight attendants and the passengers on the plane, Mrs. Olsteen did assault and elbow the flight attendant and was basically out of control. I think if she had been a man, she would have been escorted off the plane in cuffs.

 

If memory serves, she delayed the flight a couple of hours and just generally made a total @ss of herself.

 

 

Can you imagine delaying a flight for several hours--inconveniencing hundreds of people--because you are throwing a temper tantrum??

[jacqui in mo]

Good grief, with that kind of delay, it's a wonder there weren't more assaults from more passengers. I bet most of them were steamed! Jacqui

[Kelli in TN]

Good grief, with that kind of delay, it's a wonder there weren't more assaults from more passengers. I bet most of them were steamed! Jacqui

 

And not just the passengers of that flight either. Think of the people sitting in an airport for 2 hours waiting to pick up their loved one? Or what about the next flight? What if someone missed a connecting flight because of the delay?

 

It is appalling that a "minister's wife" would be the cause of such inconvenience for anything less than a medical emergency.

 

It is a appalling that a flight attendent would view an unruly passenger as her ticket to fame and fortune.

 

Grow up people.

[Ashleen]

I'm not sure how she got the hemmorhoids, but I can see how being assaulted by the wife of a famous pastor could harm your faith. A lot of people who lose their faith can point to treatment by certain church members or visible Christians, and it disturbs me that a lot of times Christians laugh this off (not just here, but I've seen this sort of thing before: someone says they struggle with faith because of how they were treated by Christians, and Christians make fun of that reason).

 

I think Joel Osteen's wife has a responsibility to be a good witness. I'm not sure assaulting a flight attendant and throwing such a tantrum that everyone is delayed helped anyone turn to Christ that day.

[jacqui in mo]

And not just the passengers of that flight either. Think of the people sitting in an airport for 2 hours waiting to pick up their loved one? Or what about the next flight? What if someone missed a connecting flight because of the delay?

 

It is appalling that a "minister's wife" would be the cause of such inconvenience for anything less than a medical emergency.

 

It is a appalling that a flight attendant would view an unruly passenger as her ticket to fame and fortune.

 

Grow up people.

:iagree:

 

Oh my goodness, yes. I hadn't even thought of all the people who might be waiting to pick up said passengers. And what about the other flights that might have been delayed because that plane wasn't there on time. This was just stuuupid.

 

Exactly why couldn't Mz. Olsteen have gotten a napkin (or one of the stored blankets) to wipe up the stain???

 

And just for ornery musings, How is it that TV evangelists are always married to either "babes" or very eccentric women? (or both) :leaving:

[jacqui in mo]

I'm not sure how she got the hemmorhoids, but I can see how being assaulted by the wife of a famous pastor could harm your faith. A lot of people who lose their faith can point to treatment by certain church members or visible Christians, and it disturbs me that a lot of times Christians laugh this off (not just here, but I've seen this sort of thing before: someone says they struggle with faith because of how they were treated by Christians, and Christians make fun of that reason).

 

I think Joel Osteen's wife has a responsibility to be a good witness. I'm not sure assaulting a flight attendant and throwing such a tantrum that everyone is delayed helped anyone turn to Christ that day.

:iagree:

[readwithem]

It is appalling that a "minister's wife" would be the cause of such inconvenience for anything less than a medical emergency.

 

 

 

Yep. I remember reading in the paper (we were living in Houston at the time) that V said to the flight attendant "Do you know who I am?"

[Nestof3]

Sounds like another person trying to get money without working. Even if someone did elbow me, I would not sue them for money. And as for mental trauma and anxiety -- the woman has clearly never had children. Raising children causes me more trauma and anxiety than an elbowing ever could!

 

Since we don't have television reception, I have no idea who this couple is, aside from obvious church leaders, but I have to say if I did have television, I wouldn't be watching them either. I always wonder about televangelists just like I do about people who initiate frivolous lawsuits -- seems like it's all about money. The few I've seen have made me sick to my stomach.

[Staci in MO]

I love my church, but sometimes I am a little shocked at what people gravitate towards. Joel Osteen. Benny Hinn. Some dude whose clothes are supposed to turn to gold dust while he preaches. Pulleeeeze.

 

How about some Mahaney? Or some Warnock podcasts? We can do better than some of the jokers folks are flocking to. There really are smart, honest, humble, seasoned Bible teachers who believe in those things that charismatics find important. Let's follow those teachers for a change.

 

You go, girl.

 

I'm not charismatic, but I listen I have listened to some of Mahaney's stuff. People like Benny Hinn make all Christians look bad.

[Kelli in TN]

Since we don't have television reception, I have no idea who this couple is, aside from obvious church leaders, .

 

 

Here you go.

[farmgirlinwv]

Does anyone know *exactly* what Victoria did to attack this woman? How was she harmed? And what provoked it? I have not heard of this and am extremely disappointed in Victoria. I agree w/ the other poster that she should be a witness, not an impediment to Christ. However, none of us our perfect and I am not going to judge either. God's much better at it than I am. I sin and mess up every day. Thank God I don't have *significant assets*!

 

Lisa

[Danestress]

Sounds like another person trying to get money without working. Even if someone did elbow me, I would not sue them for money. And as for mental trauma and anxiety -- the woman has clearly never had children. Raising children causes me more trauma and anxiety than an elbowing ever could!

 

 

 

Dawn, have you ever been physically assaulted by a stranger? I have been. He was mentally disturbed, and I understand that. And he didn't really hurt me (in a way that lasted). And I didn't sue him. But I can't tell you how upset it made me feel.

 

I can't imagine comparing raising children, even in a difficult time, with the trauma of being physically assaulted, and having the children come out worse.

 

I've shed a lot of tears over raising my son and felt pretty traumatized at time. But it's different. Somehow it doesn't seem like having a difficult child would really make being physically attacked seem like "no big deal." In fact, in some ways, I think raising children makes me feel more vulnerable and I think I would be more upset by an attack now then I was when I was younger and childless.

[*anj*]

I'm not sure assaulting a flight attendant and throwing such a tantrum that everyone is delayed helped anyone turn to Christ that day.

Hmmm....how do I say this?

I don't doubt that there are some here who will disagree (aren't there always?) but I wonder whether anything in Joel Osteen's "ministry" helps to turn anyone to Christ on any given day.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

servants of God and make them celebrities, it makes me a little nervous. We all do it! (I know I have)

 

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me."

 

As Christians, we look to our own celebrities, programs, and flashy music, etc. to draw men to Christ. There is a difference between being relevant to the culture and producing things so we can appear "cool" to non-church goers. It's so tempting.

 

This is the result. Divas who expect to get their own way and look at people as the means.

 

If I'm being a little harsh or judgemental, please forgive me. I don't mean to be. This is just a really sore subject to me. This isn't the place for me to get on my soapbox!:blush:

[farmgirlinwv]

Hmmm....how do I say this?

I don't doubt that there are some here who will disagree (aren't there always?) but I wonder whether anything in Joel Osteen's "ministry" helps to turn anyone to Christ on any given day.

 

 

I think Joel is sincere in trying to share his beliefs w/ others. I don't watch him very much, only occassionaly. I haven't done that in a long time. However, I'm not going to judge someone's motives regarding sharing the gospel w/ the world. God loves this man and so should I. When we love someone we don't speak badly about them. I think that's part of being a Christian and sharing the gospel as well. As for myself, I don't really share the gospel unless you count the little ways I try to help and serve the few people in my little sphere of influence. I'm sure it does count to God. :001_smile:

 

Just my .02.

 

Lisa

[Kelli in TN]

As Christians, we look to our own celebrities, programs, and flashy music, etc. to draw men to Christ. There is a difference between being relevant to the culture and producing things so we can appear "cool" to non-church goers. It's so tempting.

:

 

As one who attends a church that is...ack! I hate this term....seeker friendly, I do actually agree.

 

While I am very comfortable with using media presentations, hip music, etc to attract people, if the message is not there then it is just smoke and mirrors.

 

On the other hand if some folks of a more conservative (pertaining to worship style) had been at my church last night, they'd have been appalled at the behavior of our praise and worship band. On the first song, they got so worked up that the lead guitarist jumped from his stand to land next to the praise and worship leader and lay into a rockin' guitar riff. This spontaneous display caused the praise and worship leader to dance.

 

We know the heart of both of these men to be pure and upright. They are seasoned, trusted men of God. And in our church the wildly expressive behavior is not to attract non-believers but it is an honest outpouring of the unfathomable joy that comes with knowing who you are in Him.

 

Just like some congregations are moved deeply by chanting, or incense, or beautiful sancturies, or long standing liturgical traditions, or beautiful old hymns handed down from past generations, our congregation is moved deeply by just letting go and dancing before the Lord. Like one of my favorite praise songs says "I've been a fool for lesser things."

 

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack, but I always feel like I need to defend the worship style of my church and others like mine. I think there are only a couple of people on this board who understand a church like mine and I just want to say "We are real. We are authentic. We just worship a little differently."

[Kelli in TN]

I think Joel is sincere in trying to share his beliefs w/ others. I don't watch him very much, only occassionaly. I haven't done that in a long time. However, I'm not going to judge someone's motives regarding sharing the gospel w/ the world. God loves this man and so should I. When we love someone we don't speak badly about them. I think that's part of being a Christian and sharing the gospel as well. As for myself, I don't really share the gospel unless you count the little ways I try to help and serve the few people in my little sphere of influence. I'm sure it does count to God. :001_smile:

 

Just my .02.

 

Lisa

 

 

Lisa, I am no Joel Osteen fan, but thank you for saying this. I believe he was just too immature and unseasoned to fill his dad's shoes. I do not think he is deliberately misleading anyone. I was trying to think of a way to clarify my thoughts about him and you beat me to it.

 

I don't believe in Benny Hinn for one second. Neither do I believe in the angel-feather-gold-dust dude (Todd Bentley? I think that's his name, I am too lazy to look it up).

 

I think Joel Osteen was thrust into a ministry that he was either not ready for or not called to and I think he means well but good intentions are not the same thing as a calling.

 

But I don't think he is trying to sell snake oil and I hate to see him painted with that brush.

[Jugglin'5]

OK, Wiki says "sheister" is from German and means "incompetent, worthless person" or more literally "defecator". So the second definition would go along with the hemorrhoids theme here. As for incompetent, I would say they (Osteens) are incompetent at proclaiming the Gospel but I would not call them worthless because they are still people made in God's image. So I agree 67%:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

 

Merriam-Webster says that "shyster" means someone who is unscrupulous or fraudulent in their business practices (though the word does derive from sheister). As Daffy Duck would say, "Spelling trouble". Well, actually he would say, "Pronoun trouble", but I digress.

 

"Shyster" definitely describes the Olsteens. He learned it at his father's knee. The Olsteens have been a Houston institution for quite a while. The son has gotten nationally famous because he is more telegenic than his dad, who always kind of looked like the shyster he was.:D

[Kelli in TN]

 

"Shyster" definitely describes the Olsteens. He learned it at his father's knee. The Olsteens have been a Houston institution for quite a while.

 

I understood that John Osteen was well loved and respected. Did I miss something?

 

 

The son has gotten nationally famous because he is more telegenic than his dad' date=' who always kind of looked like the shyster he was.:D[/quote']

 

How does one look like a shyster?

[Jugglin'5]

Lisa, I am no Joel Osteen fan, but thank you for saying this. I believe he was just too immature and unseasoned to fill his dad's shoes. I do not think he is deliberately misleading anyone. I was trying to think of a way to clarify my thoughts about him and you beat me to it.

 

 

I think Joel Osteen was thrust into a ministry that he was either not ready for or not called to and I think he means well but good intentions are not the same thing as a calling.

 

But I don't think he is trying to sell snake oil and I hate to see him painted with that brush.

 

As a lifelong Houston area resident (with a 2 year detour to Franklin, TN):), with family members who attended Lakewood, I have to disagree with you here. It is just possible that the son is extremely self-deceived, unlike his father who was a charlatan, but the possibility is very small.

 

As for Todd Bentley, my nephew was telling my dd all about the glass eyeball, etc. Thank God for Youtube! I could show her exactly what all that was and put to rest her worries that maybe, just maybe she was missing out on what her Florida cousins had. Ick.

[Jugglin'5]

I understood that John Osteen was well loved and respected. Did I miss something?

 

Sure ,many local charismatics love him. But many are also angry that he doesn't preach the gospel, or much of anything else. His church is just like a big, self-help pep rally. And yes, may people love it. Otherwise how did his church get so big? Most local preachers, at least the ones who don't want to be just like him when they grow up, think he is doing great harm to the church. I don't think respect is a word they would use.

 

 

 

How does one look like a shyster? He looked like a used-car salesman, which I can say because my dh used to be one:D. Yes, I know that has nothing to do with being a good preacher.

 

I sincerely hope I didn't hurt your feelings or offend, but that is the way I see it.

[Kelli in TN]

As a lifelong Houston area resident (with a 2 year detour to Franklin' date=' TN):), with family members who attended Lakewood, I have to disagree with you here. It is just possible that the son is extremely self-deceived, unlike his father who was a charlatan, but the possibility is very small.

 

As for Todd Bentley, my nephew was telling my dd all about the glass eyeball, etc. Thank God for Youtube! I could show her exactly what all that was and put to rest her worries that maybe, just maybe she was missing out on what her Florida cousins had. Ick.[/quote']

 

Well, I really don't know enough to have a strong opinion. I don't follow any of these guys but Osteen does not give me the heebie-jeebies like Bently or Hinn do. I just can't follow Osteen's "teaching" because there is no depth and that makes me want to put my head through a wall. I can't see what all the fuss about him is. I just can't see it.

[LizzyBee]

A lot of people who lose their faith can point to treatment by certain church members or visible Christians, and it disturbs me that a lot of times Christians laugh this off (not just here, but I've seen this sort of thing before: someone says they struggle with faith because of how they were treated by Christians, and Christians make fun of that reason).

 

I hope my post didn't give the impression that I am laughing the incident off. I totally agree that Christians have a responsibility to be a good witness at all times and I don't condone Victoria's bad behavior. But I still think that it was one day out of her entire life, and anyone can have a bad day and royally blow it. I know I have. Christian "celebrities" are still just people, and it's unrealistic to expect that they won't screw up, even in public, once in a while.

[stephanie]

I understood that John Osteen was well loved and respected. Did I miss something?

 

 

 

How does one look like a shyster?

 

Kelli, I pm'd you!

[Dayle in Guatemala]

As one who attends a church that is...ack! I hate this term....seeker friendly, I do actually agree.

 

While I am very comfortable with using media presentations, hip music, etc to attract people, if the message is not there then it is just smoke and mirrors.

 

On the other hand if some folks of a more conservative (pertaining to worship style) had been at my church last night, they'd have been appalled at the behavior of our praise and worship band. On the first song, they got so worked up that the lead guitarist jumped from his stand to land next to the praise and worship leader and lay into a rockin' guitar riff. This spontaneous display caused the praise and worship leader to dance.

 

We know the heart of both of these men to be pure and upright. They are seasoned, trusted men of God. And in our church the wildly expressive behavior is not to attract non-believers but it is an honest outpouring of the unfathomable joy that comes with knowing who you are in Him.

 

Just like some congregations are moved deeply by chanting, or incense, or beautiful sancturies, or long standing liturgical traditions, or beautiful old hymns handed down from past generations, our congregation is moved deeply by just letting go and dancing before the Lord. Like one of my favorite praise songs says "I've been a fool for lesser things."

 

Anyway, I did not mean to hijack, but I always feel like I need to defend the worship style of my church and others like mine. I think there are only a couple of people on this board who understand a church like mine and I just want to say "We are real. We are authentic. We just worship a little differently."

 

 

Kelli!

 

I think I might have come across wrong! I, too, come from the same background. I love worship that draws me in. I have no problem whatsoever with dancing before the Lord--although I don't do it myself due to lack of coordination and I don't want to hurt anyone!:001_smile:

 

I'm sorry if I came across that way. It wasn't my intent at all. I love the freedom of worship my own non-denominational church participates in. I love Christian rock music and all of that.

 

The problem I have is when we put our eyes on man-centered instead of Christ-centered things. This has a tendency to set up someone or something as what works to bring in those who don't know the Lord. I'm all for being culturally relevent. But, I want Jesus to be lifted up, not the newest program, music, fad, or speaker.

 

Forgive me if I offended you or anyone else!