About money and private colleges: Tell me truly?

[Gwen in VA]

But WHY? WHY is a child denied MERIT scholarships because his parents did not fill out financial documents? What do the financial documents have to do with merit? What possible business is our personal financial information to a college if our child merits scholarships? Either the kid merits scholarships or he does not, on his own?!

 

The college my two kids attended required students receiving merit aid to fill out the FAFSA each and every year. (The Profile only had to be filled out freshman year if you were applying for FIANCIAL -- not merit -- aid).

 

WHY did the students have to fill out the FAFSA?

 

1) Due to some strange quirk in federal regulations, students who fill out the FAFSA and also receive merit aid are eligible -- regardless of financial need -- for work study positions. (Work study funding is handled through the federal government, and recipients MUST have filled out the FAFSA. Apparently the gov't thinks that if you receive merit aid you are worthy of work-study funding.) (Some colleges do restrict work study to financially needy students only, but that is a college policy, not a federal policy.) At this particular college there were more than enough work-study positions to go around, so this policy did not result in needy students not being able to find work. Being able to get a work-study position was a huge help to students on generous merit aid who didn't "need" the money but wanted either the spending money or the work experience. (Dd had a work study that was wonderfully relevant to her career interest and helped her enormously with her thesis research!)

 

2) Research. We were told that the colleges uses the data in helping figure out on a statistical basis where its money is going. Are the folks receiving merit aid mostly the students who would receive grant aid anyway? Are they giving merit aid mostly to students who would otherwise pay full freight? Is the merit aid getting top students who might pay full freight otherwise but also who might not attend the school without the merit aid "bribe"? How exactly is the merit aid affecting the college's bottom line?

 

Since merit aid can be as much as $200,000+ per student (for four years), I do understand why a college might want to better understand how the merit aid is affecting both the academic makeup of the student body and the finances of the college.

[Jane in NC]

1) Due to some strange quirk in federal regulations, students who fill out the FAFSA and also receive merit aid are eligible -- regardless of financial need -- for work study positions. (Work study funding is handled through the federal government, and recipients MUST have filled out the FAFSA. Apparently the gov't thinks that if you receive merit aid you are worthy of work-study funding.) (Some colleges do restrict work study to financially needy students only, but that is a college policy, not a federal policy.) At this particular college there were more than enough work-study positions to go around, so this policy did not result in needy students not being able to find work. Being able to get a work-study position was a huge help to students on generous merit aid who didn't "need" the money but wanted either the spending money or the work experience. (Dd had a work study that was wonderfully relevant to her career interest and helped her enormously with her thesis research!)

 

I was just coming in here to discuss work study but Gwen beat me to it.

 

We have a high EFC and my son does not qualify for this federally backed program--at least at the college he attends. At his school, merit aid recipients need not file the FAFSA so Tranquil Mom will be happy to know that not all colleges require this.

 

We do file the FAFSA though as a just in case measure. My son started college in 2010, a year with great economic uncertainty. If our investments had tanked, we would have asked our son to take out Stafford loans.

 

Tranquil Mom, it sounds as though your daughter will be able to attend college without Pell grants, Stafford loans, or work study. Not every teen is so fortunate. While your daughter finds her academic fit, perhaps you can screen colleges for those that give merit aid (if you believe she will qualify) without the FAFSA or CSS Profile. They do exist.

 

Another way around the system is pay the sticker price.

 

Good luck to your daughter.

[TranquilMind]

1) Due to some strange quirk in federal regulations, students who fill out the FAFSA and also receive merit aid are eligible -- regardless of financial need -- for work study positions. (Work study funding is handled through the federal government, and recipients MUST have filled out the FAFSA. Apparently the gov't thinks that if you receive merit aid you are worthy of work-study funding.) (Some colleges do restrict work study to financially needy students only, but that is a college policy, not a federal policy.) At this particular college there were more than enough work-study positions to go around, so this policy did not result in needy students not being able to find work. Being able to get a work-study position was a huge help to students on generous merit aid who didn't "need" the money but wanted either the spending money or the work experience. (Dd had a work study that was wonderfully relevant to her career interest and helped her enormously with her thesis research!)

 

I'm glad it worked for you. I just don't believe it is a quirk. I believe it is fully intentional to demand parental personal financial information for any possible reason.

 

2) Research. We were told that the colleges uses the data in helping figure out on a statistical basis where its money is going. Are the folks receiving merit aid mostly the students who would receive grant aid anyway? Are they giving merit aid mostly to students who would otherwise pay full freight? Is the merit aid getting top students who might pay full freight otherwise but also who might not attend the school without the merit aid "bribe"? How exactly is the merit aid affecting the college's bottom line?

 

They know exactly what they are doing with their money. I don't care to participate in their research. It should be voluntary.

[creekland]

I don't care to participate in their research. It should be voluntary.

 

Both U Rochester and Covenant give merit aid without Fafsa (or CSS) if either of those work for your daughter. So did U Alabama, U Pitt, Baylor, Furman, Union (TN), and Calvin (others my guys have applied to and gotten merit aid from).

 

I think there are many schools that don't need parental info for merit aid.

[Barbara H]

Why should the privacy of all families be breached because some do not know how to calculate their eligibility? Let those who want someone else to figure it out for them offer their personal data, and let the rest of us just know what criteria they need to meet! If that emergency happens midstream, you can bet we can produce financial data within 24 hours. No one needs to have it "just because".

 

 

That is good and this is how it should be for everybody. I'd estimate though it is less than 10% of the population that could say this.

 

And, I should also be clear, if anyone benefits from a system that requires financial forms for merit scholarships it is people who are wealthy enough NOT to be eligible for financial aid. It isn't that colleges look and say "oh the Jones they can clearly afford college so we aren't giving Susie that merit scholarship." Rather, it is "we like to attract students like Susie, even though her parents can afford college, let's give her a merit scholarship because that's how we are going to get her over the many other places she could go."

 

I hear you on the privacy concerns and we all need to think through where our comfort level is. It is certainly an option to only look at schools that don't require you to fill out the FAFSA or CSS. We all have to sort out for our families what decisions we feel comfortable with. I've been most bothered by medical information necessary to get insurance or health care. Release of information for getting a mortgage and merit scholarships have been worth it for us though.

[TranquilMind]

 

Both U Rochester and Covenant give merit aid without Fafsa (or CSS) if either of those work for your daughter. So did U Alabama, U Pitt, Baylor, Furman, Union (TN), and Calvin (others my guys have applied to and gotten merit aid from).

 

I think there are many schools that don't need parental info for merit aid.

 

Thanks.

 

I've not even heard of many of those, but then, we are at the beginning of this process. I think she has somewhere in mind that does require it all.

[TranquilMind]

I was just coming in here to discuss work study but Gwen beat me to it.

 

We have a high EFC and my son does not qualify for this federally backed program--at least at the college he attends. At his school, merit aid recipients need not file the FAFSA so Tranquil Mom will be happy to know that not all colleges require this.

 

We do file the FAFSA though as a just in case measure. My son started college in 2010, a year with great economic uncertainty. If our investments had tanked, we would have asked our son to take out Stafford loans.

 

Tranquil Mom, it sounds as though your daughter will be able to attend college without Pell grants, Stafford loans, or work study. Not every teen is so fortunate. While your daughter finds her academic fit, perhaps you can screen colleges for those that give merit aid (if you believe she will qualify) without the FAFSA or CSS Profile. They do exist.

 

Another way around the system is pay the sticker price.

 

Good luck to your daughter.

 

Oh, how I wish I were "Tranquil Mom". It is one of my fondest desires...still unrealized. ;) I like you calling me that, though!

 

I don't want to pay sticker price, any more than I would pay sticker price for a vehicle or a house. But, who knows how it will all end up? I guess a year from now, I will have a much better idea.

[creekland]

Thanks.

 

I've not even heard of many of those, but then, we are at the beginning of this process. I think she has somewhere in mind that does require it all.

 

Be sure the school she likes gives merit aid. Not all do. The Ivies & MIT, etc, do not, but some other schools do not as well. Franklin & Marshall hit our radar until we learned (on a visit ) that they don't give merit aid. Since our income can improve, we definitely wanted part of my guy's packages to be merit. That doesn't decrease with increased income...

[Granny_Weatherwax]

there are ones out there that require the student to maintain a 3.5 gpa, which is difficult at some schools in some programs.

Nan

 

This is exactly what happened to my DD. We have been on pins and needles all year long. It makes for a very stressful academic year. She cannot have one low grade or it's all over. The school withheld her financial aid package until today, the day after spring semester grades were due. She has been a nervous wreck, wondering if she should apply to other schools (i.e. community college) or if she needed to find another job to help with finances.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thank you for posting this. We have really struggled with the entire FAFSA issue ourselves. Our oldest was disqualified for merit scholarships at his university bc we didn't fill it out knowing he wouldn't qualify for financial aid. It is extremely frustrating that merit aid requires the FAFSA to be filled out. What you quoted here is alarming to me.

Not all schools require FAFSA for merit aid. My son's didn't.

[*LC]

I agree with the parents here who said that you unable to come close to meeting your EFC as that is based on the idea that you've been saving for many years. Here's a really good article that explains the role of savings and how you know if you've saved so much it will affect financial aid. That's a pretty rare circumstance for most of us.

 

 

Thanks for the link. It was interesting that the saving allowance when there is only one parent is less than 40 percent of that allowed when there are two parents. Why wouldn't it be 50 percent? Plus the percentage is different depending on the parent's age. A household with one parent, age 40 to 51, is allowed to have $16,500 to $21,000 in savings.

 

That would not pay for one year of total costs at our flagship universities. (And, that assumes all the one parent household's savings was for this one child's college expenses, i.e. no emergency savings fund, no college savings for younger children.)

 

To add our experience to the merit aid/loan questions. 4 of the 5 schools my senior applied to awarded merit aid without the FASFA. After merit aid, at least one school offered all loans to get the tuition down to the EFC.

[Barbara H]

Interesting point about one parents versus two - I'd noticed that before. That doesn't make a huge amount of sense does it? As there are so many shared costs (mortgage, etc.) it seems like the single parent would get more asset protection. I also like that the chart starts at the oldest parent of the college student being age 25.

 

The reality is that most parents don't have more than their allowance saved. And, if they did that full allowance is not taken - rather it is taken at the 5.9% parental rate. So, you are still better off if you've been able to save.

[Brenda in MA]

The reality is that most parents don't have more than their allowance saved. And, if they did that full allowance is not taken - rather it is taken at the 5.9% parental rate. So, you are still better off if you've been able to save.

 

 

Is this 5.9% a "new" rate on parental savings above the exclusionary limit? I thought it was something like 5.6% of parental savings above the exclusion was added into the EFC.

 

Brenda

[Nan in Mass]

Interesting point about one parents versus two - I'd noticed that before. That doesn't make a huge amount of sense does it? As there are so many shared costs (mortgage, etc.) it seems like the single parent would get more asset protection. I also like that the chart starts at the oldest parent of the college student being age 25.

 

The reality is that most parents don't have more than their allowance saved. And, if they did that full allowance is not taken - rather it is taken at the 5.9% parental rate. So, you are still better off if you've been able to save.

 

How do they define "parent"? If they mean "financial supporter", then I like that it starts at age 25 very much, too. If anything happens to us, our oldest is going to be supporting our youngest. That makes a 26yo the "parent" of an 19yo. We know someone whose college is being paid for by his sister. I'm not even sure she is his older sister. She married someone older and they are acting as parents. Things get muddy fast when you start talking about what really happens in families.

 

Nan

[Barbara H]

It means parent you live with (and also step parent you live with if that applies). Foster parents or older siblings who care for you are not considered parents for FAFSA purposes.

[*LC]

How do they define "parent"? If they mean "financial supporter", then I like that it starts at age 25 very much, too. If anything happens to us, our oldest is going to be supporting our youngest. That makes a 26yo the "parent" of an 19yo. We know someone whose college is being paid for by his sister. I'm not even sure she is his older sister. She married someone older and they are acting as parents. Things get muddy fast when you start talking about what really happens in families.

 

Nan

 

 

 

Nan, as long as your oldest doesn't adopt the youngest, your oldest son's income/assets will not be considered for youngest son's financial aid.

 

Here is a similar question from an article in the NY Times. "A student who is an orphan at any time after age 13 or who is in a court-ordered legal guardianship is considered independent. As an independent student, only the student’s income and assets (including any inheritance) is considered. The income and assets of the legal guardian or people who are providing the student with shelter are not reported on the FAFSA. However, the student will still be expected to contribute a significant percentage of his or her assets (the 20% figure) even as an independent student. It is only independent students with one or more dependents other than a spouse whose assets are treated in a manner similar to the treatment of parent assets."

[Nan in Mass]

Well, I hope we never have to worry about that. Sounds like the rules are pretty sensible. Oldest would do anything necessary to pay for youngest's college, I'm sure (he's already offered) but I am also sure he wouldn't be exactly happy about filling out those forms lol.

 

Nan

[J-rap]

Don't have much to offer, except our own experience, which hasn't been too much yet. My son attended an arts school in NYC, which offered very little merit scholarships. (And that was with top scores on SAT and passing 5 AP tests in his senior year of high school.) As someone else stated, arts programs don't always offer a lot of merit aid.

 

My daughter who is presently attending a university in the U.S. is going to a private school that runs about $35,000/year, and $20,000 of that is covered by scholarships. She lives with an aunt and uncle instead of dorms to save money (they happen to live 2 miles from the campus).

 

She also has been able to get a great house-cleaning job, and also housesits for that same family about one weekend/month, where she earns all the spending money (pocket money) she needs for the year.

 

It seems like it wouldn't hurt for your son to apply at that college, with the understanding that it's probably unlikely that it will provide enough financial aid.

[Nissi]

Baylor, UNC-CH, and Boston University offered ds. merit aid without us submitting FAFSA. Both Wake Forest U. and Wash. U asked for FAFSA.

[Jenny in Florida]

Bumping my own thread, since it's been a few months. I was stressing about the money issue again and revisited this discussion, then realized that there might be a whole new crop of parents/students who endured the admissions and financial aid process this summer and might be  willing to chime in to either reassure me or slap some sense into me.

 

I took my son on his first official college tour last week, the kind where they reserved a parking space with his name on it, took him on a tour of the campus, arranged for him to meet with the head of the department in which he is interested in enrolling . . . Because we were passing by on the way, we also stopped at the campus of one of the large state universities. We weren't able to arrange a tour there, however, because it was the first week of classes and tours weren't being offered. We did spend a couple of hours on the campus, anyway, poking around, peeking into the performing arts buildings, eating lunch in the student center and wandering the bookstore. We capped the weekend with him attending an event for prospective dance majors at which he was able to take master classes with faculty from six well-respected university dance programs.

 

By the end of the trip, two things had become clear:

 

1. The kind of training he is looking for may be available from a relatively small number of colleges/universities.

2. He is much more excited about the idea of a smaller, liberal arts college than he is about a big state campus.

 

Hence, my renewed panic about finances.

 

So, if anyone who has recently been through the process would like to jump in and tell us how it went for your kid--getting admitted AND getting the financial aid necessary to make it possible to attend the college of his/her choice . . . or not--I'd love to hear about it!

[Pawz4me]

Spam reported

[Starr]

Unfortunately you won't know unless you apply. Sometimes they even offer more if you call them once you get an offer. Dd was offered half from some and eventually more from a couple of schools that really wanted her. If they need students, if your ds fits a profile they are looking for, more will come. Good applications, college visits, your son getting to know people in admissions and the department can help. Really very few students get full scholarships. Dd ended up having a private college match costs of a good state school. But that is not cheap when they live on campus. Since the number of schools he's interested in is low I would apply and see where it goes. Yes it is a total headache and you will always wish you had ten more kids once you figure it out. All that info wasted. :D But you will live through it and something good will happen!

[Luckymama]

Dd "cast her net wide" and applied to seven schools last year. She knew we would only pay the full cost of attendance at our state flagship and that anything else would be up to her. We do not qualify for need-based aid, even with two students in college (grrr). She decided she didn't want to take out any loans as she is an English major (good girl! Her CFP father felt pleased she must have listened all these years :lol:)

 

After merit scholarships one LAC was still $5K over what we would pay, but another LAC threw buckets and buckets of money at her bringing their total COA down to equal the state uni's COA!!!! This is a school with a COA of $52K :eek:

 

She had a very difficult decision to make. April was not an enjoyable month in the Luckymama household. Ultimately she decided while she loved the LAC, she hated the itty bitty town in which it is set. She has grown up in a bustling university town with many coffee shops, restaurants, stores, and arts opportunities. She felt she would really miss all that at the LAC.

[Gwen in VA]

I just want to share what dd is doing.

 

She is applying to three schools -- 2 ridiculously expensive schools where if she doesn't get BUCKETS of merit aid she can't go, and 1 top state college that doesn't give any merit aid but we will pay for.

 

She knows that getting accepted by School #1 and School #2 isn't enough -- if the acceptance isn't accompanied by extremely generous merit aid she can NOT attend, period. Tough, but that's reality.

[Frances]

 

 

1. The kind of training he is looking for may be available from a relatively small number of colleges/universities.

2. He is much more excited about the idea of a smaller, liberal arts college than he is about a big state campus.

 

Hence, my renewed panic about finances.

 

So, if anyone who has recently been through the process would like to jump in and tell us how it went for your kid--getting admitted AND getting the financial aid necessary to make it possible to attend the college of his/her choice . . . or not--I'd love to hear about it!

In an earlier post, you mentioned having income in the upper middle class range. Have you been able to determine from the FAFSA predictor and college net price calculators whether you are likely to qualify for anything besides merit aid and unsubsidized loans? As my husband had recently finished a professional graduate program and started a new more lucrative career and I was still working the full-time job I took to put him through the grad program, we knew our son wouldn't qualify for any financial aid, only merit aid. He applied primarily to small liberal arts college in two different areas of the country and I think most of the schools used the CSS profile in addition to the FAFSA. His best merit aid definitely came from the far away schools, even though in all but one case they were the most selective (top 25). Still, even getting the top scholarships to these schools left about half the cost remaining with a small amount of that covered by unsubsidized loans, although one did offer their own work study (not federally subsidized). The local highly selective LAC gives no merit aid, and he only received unsubsidized loans. We were prepared to basically hand over my paycheck every month if he chose that school, but ultimately he surprised us by choosing the one larger school he applied to where he received a full-tuition scholarship and a NMS scholarship that covers the additional honors college tuition.

 

If you don't think you'll qualify for much financial aid, then you definitely need to focus on schools where you son will be a strong candidate for merit aid (academic and/or performing arts). If some of the schools are far away that should also help make him a more attractive candidate, although be sure to include travel costs when planning for expenses. I do also think males may have a slight edge at liberal arts colleges, as many of them struggle with the male/female ratio and are wary of it dropping below a certain level. You should also investigate any outside scholarships that might be available, although many are only for one year.

 

I know that somewhere you mentioned working two part-time jobs now. Maybe once your son goes off to college you will be able to get a full-time job to put toward his expenses? As my husband and I spent many of our adult years with one of the other of us in grad or professional school, we didn't really save for college. Our plan was to pay for anything not covered by aid with my earnings, as we were used to living on only one income.

 

 

[Vida Winter]

I have no idea what merit aid is awarded to performing arts majors, but we simply focused on the ACT.  SAT/ACT scores seem to be extremely important no matter what the major, and your son is in a good position to put this to his advantage if he chooses to wait a year before officially graduating and uses that time to up his scores.