My dd cried last night about reading - help me

[Karen in CO]

History first -

We are a family of early and voracious readers. DD8 has visual development problems including a significant midline jump and tracking problems. We did vision therapy for 6 months which helped a lot, but she doesn't like the vision therapist and didn't want to continue.

 

Last night about midnight, I found her crying in her bed. After a lot of coaxing, I found that she had woken up and wanted to read to help herself get back to sleep but decided that she really can't read after all. I know she can read. When I read The Hobbit to her, she read all of the poems and songs to me. She has read most of the SL2 readers and a couple of Droon books along with a Judy Moody and several of those Mercy books about the pig this year. However, she won't read on her own. She's had quite a bit of phonics, but still guesses at words she doesn't know instead of sounding them out even when they are perfectly phonic words.

 

So how do I how do I turn my insecure reader into a confident reader? I think that she just needs more time since it has only been a few months since her vision has improved enough to follow words on a page. Is there something else I should add? More phonics? More sight words? More something? She knows that Droon and the shelf of early chapter books we have are books for kids still learning to read - she wants to be able to just read anything in our library.

[katilac]

First and foremost, I would return to vision therapy. It's non-optional medical treatment, imo. If I could find a different therapist, I'd consider that (although I would think long and hard about it if this therapist was getting good results). Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do (vision therapy) in order to do the things we DO want to do (reading fluently).

[Mom2TheTeam]

I basically agree with the above. I don't know the reason she doesn't like the vision therapist and that would play a role in deciding to change or find a new one. But, one way or the other, I'd stick with it.

 

My oldest is only 7.5. So, I don't have any good years of experience that you don't. ;) But he lacks confidence. I've worked hard to find things that he wants to read that are slightly below what I know he can read. I have him do a lot of reading aloud. This way, he reads it well and it builds confidence. I praise him constantly. He is a late bloomer with reading and still is just barely fluent. Still, I tell him all the time how good at it he is. It has even rubbed off on his siblings and they praise him too. Too cute! I've seen a lot of growth since doing these two things. I feel it has boosted his confidence which has helped his attitude tremendously and ultimately has lead to his big gains in reading this year.

 

Good luck!!

[Karen in CO]

First and foremost, I would return to vision therapy. It's non-optional medical treatment, imo. If I could find a different therapist, I'd consider that (although I would think long and hard about it if this therapist was getting good results). Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do (vision therapy) in order to do the things we DO want to do (reading fluently).

 

Vision therapy - okay. Thanks for telling me this. I know it, but it is good to get a push in the right direction. The therapist was getting good results, but she used that fake-nice voice all the time in addition to working dd very hard. I don't know which bothered Dani more, the fake-nice treatment or the hard work. It was probably both. The fact that the therapy helped needs to trump her feelings.

[ElizabethB]

Vision therapy - okay. Thanks for telling me this. I know it, but it is good to get a push in the right direction. The therapist was getting good results, but she used that fake-nice voice all the time in addition to working dd very hard. I don't know which bothered Dani more, the fake-nice treatment or the hard work. It was probably both. The fact that the therapy helped needs to trump her feelings.

 

 

Can you just use the same therapist but voice your concerns about the fake-nice voice? I'm sure it bothers her to use that voice as well, LOL.

 

Students have had success quickly learning the phonics they missed by working through my phonics lessons. They do use the book of Romans. If you don't want that, you can quickly work through the program on my how to tutor page, using the quick version with the checklist to keep you on track in link #11 at the end. A friend's daughter successfully used my online lessons after her vision therapy was complete, she was happy to find phonics geared for an older child or adult.

 

Either will quickly teach all the phonics needed to be able to sound out anything, teaching all the sound spelling patterns and syllable division, working with multi-syllable words.

[Jaz]

First and foremost, I would return to vision therapy. It's non-optional medical treatment, imo. If I could find a different therapist, I'd consider that (although I would think long and hard about it if this therapist was getting good results). Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do (vision therapy) in order to do the things we DO want to do (reading fluently).

Yes, I think this is key. My ds cried his way through therapy. We did it at home, but he cried almost every time. It's difficult!

[Mom2TheTeam]

 

Vision therapy - okay. Thanks for telling me this. I know it, but it is good to get a push in the right direction. The therapist was getting good results, but she used that fake-nice voice all the time in addition to working dd very hard. I don't know which bothered Dani more, the fake-nice treatment or the hard work. It was probably both. The fact that the therapy helped needs to trump her feelings.

 

 

Knowing the reason, I would stick with the same therapist. I wonder if you could find a way to nicely ;) discuss the issue. It may just be her personality though.

[JudoMom]

I've got this book if you want to borrow it. It's an old version of Reading Pathways.

 

I feel her pain about the fake nice voice. ::shudder:: Could you find another place?

[Karen in CO]

I've got this book if you want to borrow it. It's an old version of Reading Pathways.

 

I feel her pain about the fake nice voice. ::shudder:: Could you find another place?

 

 

I used to have that book.... I wonder if I still do. It worked well when I used it with her sister. I've been so mixed up because nothing that worked with the older two worked with her because of her eyes. I'll let you know if I can't find it. Thanks.

 

Poor child may never be able to integrate into normal society with her low tolerance for that voice. I think there is at least one other place in town that does VT. I'll call around again; it would be easier if she didn't loathe going to VT.

[MtnTeaching]

I know this is entirely too simplistic and does not even scratch the surface of most of what you are talking about, but my dd sounded exactly like this when she was young. She definitely had tracking issues and we did 1&1/2 years of vision therapy. (It helped, but for dd, unfortunately most of the problem is dyslexia.)

 

However, I did find that if I even tried to get her to read in the afternoon or evening, it was a disaster. Her eyes would tire so fast they would literally hurt her. I just made it a ritual to have her sit with me and I would read aloud to her at night. She did better reading in the morning and in fairly short intervals with pretty good breaks between reading times.

[lea1]

I know this is entirely too simplistic and does not even scratch the surface of most of what you are talking about, but my dd sounded exactly like this when she was young. She definitely had tracking issues and we did 1&1/2 years of vision therapy. (It helped, but for dd, unfortunately most of the problem is dyslexia.)

 

However, I did find that if I even tried to get her to read in the afternoon or evening, it was a disaster. Her eyes would tire so fast they would literally hurt her. I just made it a ritual to have her sit with me and I would read aloud to her at night. She did better reading in the morning and in fairly short intervals with pretty good breaks between reading times.

 

I think having her read aloud to you from books that are a little below her reading level is a great way to build her confidence. I used the above mentioned Pathyway Readers with my sons and they really enjoyed them. I think it really built their confidence too. In light of the above bolded, I would probably have her do her reading intensive work in the mornings. It also sounds like returning to VT is the way to go. I would talk to the therapist and see if she feels that your daughters feelings of having to work so hard at VT is normal or maybe if the therapist needs to scale back a bit. I doubt there is anything you can do about the fake-nice voice. Maybe that is her way of sounding nice even when she doesn't always feel the nicest.

[8filltheheart]

I can't address anything about the vision therapy since when I took our extreme dyslexic reader for testing, he was told he didn't need VT.

 

For my struggling readers, reading along with an audio recording helped give them confidence and increased their reading speed. Also, reading on my ipad with big font encouraged my 1st grader this yr to read harder words.......for some reason if the print is big, she seems to think it means she should be able to read it. ;)

[sixpence1978]

I think you still have lots of different options.

 

We did 9 months of vision therapy. It was hard work...lots of tears. It didn't fix everything for us, but it definitely did help. If you 100% don't want to return to your previous therapist and can't find another one, there are some things you can work on at home. Search for books by Kenneth Lane on Amazon. I believe he has 3 out there that describe a lot of the therapy exercises you could do on your own. While it isn't that same as going to a therapist, it does have some merit.

 

As far as wanting to read books that aren't early chapter books, it might just take finding the right book at the right level. My DD can only check out books that pass the 5 finger test. She opens to a page and reads it. Every time she comes to a word she can't read, she puts a finger up. If she reaches 5 before finishing the page, it's too hard still and I remind her that she wouldn't enjoy reading it yet. Another thing that helps my DD is finding books in the large print section (there aren't many). Her eyes skip around less when the words are larger. This has me debating whether an e-reader is in her future. Then she could set the font size to whatever she wants.

 

While my DD does know how to read, we are still working our way through the Dancing Bears reading program. This allows me to really have her focus on decoding and accuracy. The notched index card really drives home the scanning from left-to-right motion as well as sounding out the word accurately. She really doesn't like it, but it is a maximum of 10 minutes a day, so we just buckle down and do it.

 

I hope you find something that works. I remember my DD being frustrated around age 8 as well because she wanted to read Black Beauty but just couldn't. She was still in the early readers (Cam Jansen and the likes) and was getting tired of reading "little" books. Her biggest turning point was when we bought her The Tale of Despereaux on audio CD. She listened to it so many times that by the time she finally picked up the book, she read it in 2 days. We do that a lot as well, after I have finished a read aloud, I will give it to her and she usually will re-read it on her own time.

[Lecka]

My son has the same tracking issues and midline jump!!!! So excited to meet another person with same lol.

 

We had a choice between OT and VT after doing an evaluation with each. I picked OT bc I thought he would have a lot better compliance and willingness to work.

 

She said if be did not make progress then it would be good to try VT.

 

Anyway he has made a little improvement, he is working on tracking a balloon while keeping his head still. Eventually she will push him in a swing and have him watch a balloon. That is the next step I guess.

 

He has been going about 2 months now and the OT has just mentioned thinking he has dyslexia and dysgraphia (she would not automatically think it from tracking but with other things she saw).

 

I have already done reading with my son as if be has dyslexia, but only recently found out about the tracking/midline/bilateral coordination/visual motor integration issues.

 

Anyway -- I am at about the same point but he can read some things like Tiny Titans and Lunch Lady that are age-appropriate but do not have a lot of text on one page. He can still practice that way.

 

He is not motivated to read chapter books as they are too hard, but he is actually reading on that level when the text is in a different format. Bc of existing reading concerns he is required to read aloud and silently each day (like 10 minutes each, it is not a huge amount).

 

I was also given a list of possible activities for crossing the midline, if that is a problem outside of vision (it is for my son). This was stuff like tae kwon do, and bal-a-vis-x (very popular locally, but one of many programs where kids do something with exercises with a ball to cross the midline).

 

Anyway, I don't want to worry you bc my son has more problems besides just tracking, but also, maybe OT is an option that would be more fun than VT.

 

The VT local to us seemed good but not good for a younger child who didn't really want to be there.

 

Also, maybe you could look for some cool comic-type books with larger print? If she thought they were for big kids? Maybe Baby Mouse? They don't look like baby books. I just flip through and look for things with larger writing that is more spread out. A lot of comic books and cartoon books will work, some non-fiction books that have captions is a larger type, too.

 

Things I have heard of but not tried: reading on a kindle with font set to largest setting; scanning books and reading them with a larger type face and many spaces left between lines (instead of double-spaces).

[Tracy]

The only way to stop a child from guessing at unfamiliar words is intensive phonics training. It took over 2 years of Spell to Write and Read before my dd8 would even attempt to sound out an unfamiliar word without me prompting her to do so.

[Lecka]

I wonder how much guessing it is, though. If it is a lot of guessing I think it would be good to look into dyslexia. But if it is a little guessing while she is trying to read stuff that is too hard, I think that is different.

 

Good resources then are the book Overcoming Dyslexia or the website for Barton reading. They are negative about vision therapy but just ignore that I think.

[Lecka]

Oops, double post

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

The Kindle Fire HD immersion experience may possibly help her too. If you buy the ebook and audiobook with whispersync voice feature, then the audiobook and text will sync with each and the words are highlighted as the text is read aloud by a professional narrator. My ds enjoys this even though he is a fluent reader.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_365671162_3?ie=UTF8&docId=1000827761&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=auto-sparkle&pf_rd_r=22E8B8DA1BA4431F8FBE&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1406774022&pf_rd_i=whispersync%20for%20voice%20immersion

 

I also love ElizabethB's website.

[merry gardens]

Can you keep some easier reading with larger print for her for her to read in her room at night?

Being tired may put an extra strain on her eyes, making it harder to read than it already is. And if she's reading The Hobbit, great! But with all those made up words and names, she might really need you there to read books like that. Pick books below her reading level, so she won't have to struggle with hard words when she wants to read alone.

 

We've done both vt and a strong Orton-Gillingham based reading program for a dyslexic who also had eye issues. The O-G program kept him on very controlled reading so that he could de-code successfully and not get frustrated. In addition to some of the other good suggestions above, try lowering the reading level of her bedtime books and select larger print books so she does not get to the point of frustration.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Can you keep some easier reading with larger print for her for her to read in her room at night?

Being tired may put an extra strain on her eyes, making it harder to read than it already is. And if she's reading The Hobbit, great! But with all those made up words and names, she might really need you there to read books like that. Pick books below her reading level, so she won't have to struggle with hard words when she wants to read alone.

 

We've done both vt and a strong Orton-Gillingham based reading program for a dyslexic who also had eye issues. The O-G program kept him on very controlled reading so that he could de-code successfully and not get frustrated. In addition to some of the other good suggestions above, try lowering the reading level of her bedtime books and select larger print books so she does not get to the point of frustration.

 

 

The beauty of the kindle is that you can enlarge to print quite a bit even with immersion experience.

[Katy]

I wouldn't use a kindle, or any screen time, with a kid under 8 or with known vision issues. I read a couple articles a long time ago about speculation about screen devices not being good for young eyes. Big print books from the library, audiobooks, anything to make her feel better.

[thewaka]

I wouldn't use a kindle, or any screen time, with a kid under 8 or with known vision issues. I read a couple articles a long time ago about speculation about screen devices not being good for young eyes. Big print books from the library, audiobooks, anything to make her feel better.

 

 

Did that article include e-ink screens? I think now that so many people are using lit-screen devices as ereaders and there are Kindle models, it is becoming necessary to specify which we are talking about. E-ink screens are not like LCD screens, TVs, etc.

[MomatHWTK]

Simple crossword puzzles helped DS with eye tracking. I also used lots of tips from the book Reading Rescue 1-2-3.

 

Have you considered any of the assistive reading programs available online? Homeschool Buyers' Coop has featured a few lately. We have not used any but I am using ETC Online and Click N' Read for one of my readers. My oldest FWIW couldn't stand the online learning so each child varies with regard to what works for them.

 

Sometimes for co-reading, I type things into MSWord in a large font and then I highlight the words with the formatting features as we read.

[PeterPan]

Karen, since this got dragged up, I'll pick up what MtnTeaching was saying. Yes she should return to VT (and get the therapist's head screwed on straight), but it also sounds like it's time to get a neuropsych eval. There's probably more going on. The sounding out problems are what my dd did, and it wasn't exclusively because of vision.

 

Usually takes 1-4 months to get into a good psych, so go ahead and start researching. And on the phonics, I'm not sure why the other person mentioned PP. I'd be doing an OG method and putting those words on flashcards (once they're fully understood) to build automaticity. SWR describes how to do this, but AAS comes with flashcards for their words. Or use LOE or WRTR and put the words on flashcards after you spell them together. My dd NEVER sounded out to read. We encoded words from SWR, put them on flashcards, got automaticity, and she started reading. Sounding out requires working memory, among other things. I think if you tested it you might find some glitches there, as well as maybe visual memory. The wake-up for me was when I realized she stumbled over digit spans exactly the way she did in trying to sound out words.

[Karen in CO]

Karen, since this got dragged up, I'll pick up what MtnTeaching was saying. Yes she should return to VT (and get the therapist's head screwed on straight), but it also sounds like it's time to get a neuropsych eval. There's probably more going on. The sounding out problems are what my dd did, and it wasn't exclusively because of vision.

 

Usually takes 1-4 months to get into a good psych, so go ahead and start researching. And on the phonics, I'm not sure why the other person mentioned PP. I'd be doing an OG method and putting those words on flashcards (once they're fully understood) to build automaticity. SWR describes how to do this, but AAS comes with flashcards for their words. Or use LOE or WRTR and put the words on flashcards after you spell them together. My dd NEVER sounded out to read. We encoded words from SWR, put them on flashcards, got automaticity, and she started reading. Sounding out requires working memory, among other things. I think if you tested it you might find some glitches there, as well as maybe visual memory. The wake-up for me was when I realized she stumbled over digit spans exactly the way she did in trying to sound out words.

 

I've noticed something the way she sounds out words. She just doesn't do it. We've worked through 5 ETC books. She has memorized phonograms, but when she looks at an unfamiliar word, she either guesses based on the first couple of letters or first and last letter. She doesn't even guess based on phonograms or syllables and the words don't typically have the same length as the ones she substitutes. We started reading thy words in Webster's broken by syllables and she thought it was amazing. I don't think it ever occurred to her that words could be broken down that way despite the phonics work we've done.

 

We used AAR this year, but I think it just helped her to memorize more words instead of helping her to sound out new ones. She will apply the phonics during a lesson, but never in outside reading. One good thing about PP (which I used with my older dd) is that it has a lot of repetition of the words and sounds. It really helps her to feel successful. I do have SWR; I hadn't considered making flashcards from the words.

 

She also misses the inside details on number strings.

 

I found a literacy center in town that specializes in remediating reading problems and does a 6 hour evaluation of skills. Do you think this type of evaluation would help? What would I look for in a neuropsych evaluation?

 

Here is the list of what the literacy center evaluates:

 

 

 

A comprehensive evaluation to determine the presence of learning disabilities as defined by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-IV-TR.

 

Results provide sufficient evidence to diagnose dyslexia according to the guidelines set forth by the International Dyslexia Association (IDA).

Meets requirements for ACT, SAT and most college accommodations and modification requests.

Includes:

• 6 hour evaluation (2 appointments)
  
• Full report including scores, interpretation, diagnosis and recommendations
  
• 30-60 minute consultation to review results and make recommendations
  

 

Skills Evaluated:

• Phonological Processing
  
• Letter Knowledge
  
• Oral Reading Fluency (Rate and Accuracy)
  
• Decoding
  
• Word Recognition
  
• Reading Comprehension
  
• Spelling
  
• Written Expression
  
• Listening Comprehension
  
• Oral Expression
  
• Mathematics
  
• Cognitive Ability (Intelligence Quotient)
  
  • Verbal Comprehension
    
  • Perceptual Reasoning
    
  • Working Memory
    
  • Processing Speed
    

Literacy Skills Evaluation

 

Analyzes skills necessary for successful reading.

Includes:

• 1-2 hour evaluation
  
• Profile chart of examinee’s pre-reading skills
  
• 30 minute consultation to review results and make recommendations
  

Skills Evaluated:

• Phonological Processing
  
• Letter Knowledge
  
• Oral Reading Fluency (Rate and Accuracy)
  
• Decoding
  
• Word Recognition
  
• Reading Comprehension
  

If preliminary indicators of learning disabilities are seen, additional testing may be recommended.

 

 

Mathematics Skills Evaluation

Analyzes skills necessary for success in mathematics and computation.

 

Includes:

• 1-2 hour evaluation
  
• Profile chart of examinee’s processing and mathematics skills
  
• 30 minute consultation to review results and make recommendations
  

Skills Evaluated:

• Phonological Processing
  
• Arithmetic Skills
  
• Explicit Computation
  
• Mathematic Fluency
  
• Mathematic Reasoning / Applied Computation
  

If preliminary indicators of learning disabilities are seen, additional testing may be recommended.

[PeterPan]

I'm writing you privately.

[Katy]

 

Did that article include e-ink screens? I think now that so many people are using lit-screen devices as ereaders and there are Kindle models, it is becoming necessary to specify which we are talking about. E-ink screens are not like LCD screens, TVs, etc.

 

 

To my knowledge e-ink screens and young eyes have not been studied. I'm not willing to experiment with my children's eyes.

[RootAnn]

:grouphug:

Dd#2 did some VT, but abhorred the VT therapist (not the same as the VT doc, who she tolerated). He had a bad habit of saying, "Soooo" with a weird accent (sounded like the word 'sew') before every.single.activity. He was also terrible at explanations, would make mistakes that would then be marked as wrong for >HER<, and was never prepared for her sessions. But the other VT (where we went for an eval with dd#1) was anti-phonics. While her reading improved, we lost her previously positive attitude and she regressed seriously in math. We did not 'finish' VT. And I'm okay with that.

 

She did a lot of reading of "below level" material & read aloud to her younger siblings. I let her listen to a LOT of audiobooks over the years. She's finally reading the type of books she wants to read without having to rely on the audiobook version. (Her recent ITBS results, while dismal for most areas, were in the 80th percentile for her grade for Reading Comprehension & Vocab.)

 

You have received some great advice. Good luck going forward!

[8filltheheart]

I've noticed something the way she sounds out words. She just doesn't do it. We've worked through 5 ETC books. She has memorized phonograms, but when she looks at an unfamiliar word, she either guesses based on the first couple of letters or first and last letter. She doesn't even guess based on phonograms or syllables and the words don't typically have the same length as the ones she substitutes. We started reading thy words in Webster's broken by syllables and she thought it was amazing. I don't think it ever occurred to her that words could be broken down that way despite the phonics work we've done.

 

We used AAR this year, but I think it just helped her to memorize more words instead of helping her to sound out new ones. She will apply the phonics during a lesson, but never in outside reading. One good thing about PP (which I used with my older dd) is that it has a lot of repetition of the words and sounds. It really helps her to feel successful. I do have SWR; I hadn't considered making flashcards from the words.

 

She also misses the inside details on number strings.

 

I found a literacy center in town that specializes in remediating reading problems and does a 6 hour evaluation of skills. Do you think this type of evaluation would help? What would I look for in a neuropsych evaluation?

 

Here is the list of what the literacy center evaluates:

 

 

You might want to consider Apples and Pears Spelling. It breaks words into morphemes and includes word searches with similar letters that force them to discriminate letters.

 

Can she do simple word searches? Is able to tell you the number if you ask her to focus on the entire number or even while focused she misses the inside numbers in the number string? (sometimes with my dyslexic kids it is hard to tell what is a "real" problem and what is a problem b/c they are tired and aren't focused.)