Has anyone used Jousting Armadillos or other pre/algebra resources from Arbor Center for Teaching

[efwalsh]

I recently discovered the Arbor Center for Teaching out of Portland, which offers a free newsletter (Cambium) on teaching topics. They offer a series of pre-algebra and algebra books that seem quite unique -- written by their math instructor. I was thinking of purchasing the first issue Jousting Armadillos and Other Equations for pre-algebra next year after seeing a sample. It seems to stress problem solving skills and a more creative approach to math. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this curriculum?

 

http://www.arborcent...ications/books/

 

On a related topic -

 

I'm also thinking of AoPS for pre-algera next year, but wonder if it might be too much for my son (now in grade 5). He's the kind of kid who seems to get higher concepts (he was so excited the day we did exponentials) but hates long division, multiplication, showing his work, etc. He makes simple mistakes all the time copying his work, which makes me wonder if he's bored (he also has attention issues and slow processing speeds, so there's that). I find I have to mix things up a lot with him to keep him engaged ...LoF, MM -- both seemed to work great for him for the first half of the year and now he's over them. We're doing geometry right now and he seems really bored with the MM approach, as well as with the old Singapore book I have. I was thinking that AoPS or even the latest Beast Academy book might be way to get him more excited on these concepts, or at least make them fun and visual. I'm also wondering if moving to something a bit more challenging (this Jousting Armadillos or AoPS) might wake him up a bit. This curriculum is half the price of AoPS, so it has that to recommend it right now. Thanks!

[Clear Creek]

Oh, my goodness! These look like a cross between LOF and the Danica McKellar books (but more to-the-point than Fred, and not as girly as Danica). Plus they have the answers in a separate book, and chapter tests. And built in review. :wub: Why, oh, why did I not hear of these before I purchased AOPS prealgebra???

[Halcyon]

These look great!

[trudence1]

No, but I will have to check in out now! Choices, choices, choices.

[rdj2027]

What a great supplement to AoPS :thumbup1:

[Forgiven]

These look awesome! I've been contemplating what to do for pre-a...a ops was my top pick...maybe I'll use both...

[Lilaclady]

They look nice but it will be nice to see if someone has used it and can give a review.

[Pen]

I never heard of them before--thank you for sharing. Hope also that someone has actual experience.

[wapiti]

A few notes from skimming through the introduction of the prealgebra: (1) he was influenced by Jacobs and wanted to combine aspects of both Jacobs' algebra text and Mathematics, A Human Endeavor during the middle school years; and (2) he talks about the level of independence of the book - good for small groups, more independent than most, but still assumes some teacher involvement.

 

Looking at the text itself, there's a lot of reading, which is presumably what makes it more independent than more traditional texts. At a glance, the instruction is fairly explicit.

 

It looks like quite a nice option, particularly for a student who might benefit from this sort of thinking about math but needs smaller bites/more explicit teaching and a lower challenge level than AoPS (I don't think this is comparable to AoPS - different audience, different challenge level). It really does have a certain Jacobs-ish feel about it, though I only looked at the prealgebra. It might also be an interesting option for a young, advanced student where the parent is reading through the text along with them (or doing the reading for them), discussing the lesson problems as they go.

 

I don't see square roots or the Pythagorean Theorem in the prealgebra book (Armadillos). It looks like square roots are in the third book. I don't see the Pythagorean Theorem anywhere - maybe I missed it. I think the three books are for grades 6,7,8, together covering prealgebra and algebra.

 

It will be interesting to hear from anyone who has used this. Since it was published in 2012, I'm guessing not many homeschoolers have.

[Jilly]

This looks wonderful, thanks for posting.

[Dmmetler]

Those look great-DD is finishing LoF Pre-Algebra 2 now, and this might be a good "next step" and change of pace from Fred for a bit. I don't feel like she's quite ready for AOPS yet.

[Guest Linus R]

Hi, this is Linus Rollman, the author of Jousting Armadillos etc. I hope I'm not skirting the advertising line too closely here (I love the terms of use for this site!) -- you all should obviously take the recommendations of unbiased reviewers, and I suppose I'm about as biased as they come. I just want to make myself available to answer any questions that you think would be helpful to direct at the author. I'll try to check in on this thread, but you should also feel free to email me directly: linus@arborschool.org

 

The books are pretty much totally untested in a homeschool context (though a couple of folks have bought them in the last few weeks, which is how I learned about this site and thread, so that will hopefully change). I wrote them for our in-house use at Arbor School outside of Portland, Oregon, but also hoping they might be useful to other people as well. For what it's worth, I agree with what is posted above (as far as I can tell -- the truth is that I'm not familiar with some of the other resources mentioned). The books are definitely intended to challenge kids, but to help them through those challenges, and they were written with the goal of deep understanding (as opposed to purely procedural accuracy) in mind. I think what might make them successful in a homeschool situation is that the really are written directly to the kids (they're the only math books I know of written in the first person). The main challenge, I would think, is that they were definitely written with group work in mind (they explicitly refer to your "partners" and "teammates" and so on). This is great if you have several kids of your own using them, or if you get together with other families, but I think it really means that the best method for using them would be to work them alongside your child, effectively becoming his or her math partner(s). That means extra work for you, but the one thing that is becoming clear to me about homeschoolers -- as diverse as the group is -- is that you are not shy of hard work. You should also know that the books are definitely a pure pre-algebra and algebra curriculum (they end up covering a few topics that are traditionally part of an Algebra II syllabus), so you would definitely need to supplement them in order to cover geometry topics and so on as noted above (we supplement them at Arbor, and we made them!).

 

As I say, I hope I'm not kicked off of here for advertising -- that's not my intent. I'm pleased to begin exploring the homeschool world, and do feel free to ask me any questions that you think would be helpful!

[Halcyon]

Thank you for the info, linus!

[Pen]

I came back looking to see if there was anyone who had tested them now as I am looking for next year's materials. The comments by the author are also helpful. Thanks. Any more user experience over these last couple of months?

[rdj2027]

I am currently using it because I was rather curious when I first heard about it and we are in sort of a holding pattern this being the end of the year and not wanting to start the next class until after the summer.

 

Short story, we love it. We is my visual-spatial-kinesthetic at the end of the spectrum 12 year old son who lost all of his confidence in PS because they were drilling in math and he has a hard time with memorization and my almost 10 year old daughter who is fantastic with memorization and duplicating processes but not really doing so well with the concepts. My son tested below basic in math last year and it took me a year to figure out where the problem was, he is now doing very well with AoPS and my daughter is using Math Mammoth and doing well with that. I am writing this to give you some idea aas to what type of learners my children are.

 

Why does it work so well for my son? Like AopS it is discovery based and focuses on concepts. It asks a lot of questions rather than simply showing the procedure. The text is conversational in style and written to the student, meaning to be discussed among several people. For my son who has to move and keep his body busy, the hands-on projects and problems are perfect. It does not have a lot of review in my opinion but again, my son is one of those kiddos who do not need it once they understand the concept. It is wordy and for my chatterbox boy who loves to discuss and debate this approach works very well so while it is meant for the student it is a text that shines when used in a group setting. As it was written for the classroom that isn't really surprising and while this could make it hard, it also makes it easy for me to combine my children in math to a certain extent.

 

It is deceptively easy in the beginning, its starts with the simple question of "How do we know things?" Completely caught both of my kiddos off guard but led to a great discussion on not only that question but how often we accept things without really giving them some thought. I have seen a change in how my daughter does math and while MM usually does explain concepts well, she now tends to dig deeper than what MM offers in way of explanations. This simple question has helped her to pay more attention to the concepts and work harder on understanding them rather than simply accept that "it is so" and follow procedures.

 

The problems are often written in a humorous way which appeals to my quirky son. They also use characters that lead us to other discussions (i.e. Xerxes and his battles) which can make for a lengthy math lesson because we take a foray into history, literature or any other subject. Again, this approach works well for my son who tends to skip between subjects and thoughts and gets bored easily and it works for my daughter who hates to read but does want to know who Xerxes was.

 

The solution guide is not really a solution guide, it is a compilation of ideas and ways of children who have solved the problems in a classroom setting. I can see where parents are uncomfortable with not having a clear solution manual so this should be kept in mind. The book points out that often there is more than one way to solve a problem and sometimes there really is no answer at all. While thinking is important in arriving at a correct solution, sometimes you just have to use your intuition and tackle whatever lies in front of you. There are times and places for both and I think it was this philosophy that made my son gain confidence. He does math intuitively and while we are working on writing down steps and showing work he is so much more willing to throw out ideas rather than shut down because he is afraid of getting it wrong.

 

The books are black and white, and as I said wordy. They are based on Jacob's "Human Endeavor" and to me are a lighter version of AoPS, combining pre-algebra with algebra 1. We are only in the first book, I have not yet really looked at the scope and sequence of the whole series. There is nothing flashy about them.

 

The style does not work well for my 14 year old Aspie who is very literal, gets confused by the conversational style and needs lots of practice problems.

 

On another note, their customer service is fantastic, their newsletter is great, we have gone through a number of their projects and had great fun. I have yet to find "busy work" in either the book or the newsletter.

 

They are hoping to reach homeschoolers in the future and look for feedback from the homeschooling community as to what works, what doesn't and what a homeschooler needs to make this series a good fit. Obviously no one curriculum will ever appeal to every kind of student but I am glad I have found something that works for us (besides AoPS).

[Pen]

Thank you!! Very helpful review.

[Pen]

... This curriculum is half the price of AoPS, so it has that to recommend it right now. Thanks!

 

 

It looks interesting and the review above is intriguing so I may get it. But the price seems a lot higher than AoPS--$54 for text plus solutions manual for AoPS prealgebra compared to $60 for student text and answers and test book for Jousting Armadillos--and Jousting Arm's is just one of three needed to do all of prealgebra via the Arbor Center.

 

Or am I missing something that makes AoPS more or this less?

[3andme]

Based on the table of contents, I would say only the first book would overlap with a traditional pre-algebra course. The latter two books definitely cover typical Algebra I topics (simultaneous equations, polynomials, quadratic formula, etc.).

[rdj2027]

I had a 20% off coupon and the "solutions manual" isn't really necessary as it is only a collection of how the children solved the problems. I dare say if you have a solid basic understanding of math you won't need it at least for the first book.

 

As I said, their customer service is great, you could ask him to send you a couple more sample chapters to give you a better idea of how this book works.

 

Overall, I think it is less rigorous than AoPS and to me its real attraction lies in the incorporation of hands-on math, the "Notes to self" and overall tone. It is somewhat humorous and encouraging, for a child like mine who had lost all confidence in his math abilities it was important to see that it is perfectly acceptable to throw out ideas how to solve a problem even if in the end it turns out wrong rather than shut down and do nothing for fear of getting the wrong answer. Problem solving does not mean you are only successful if you get the right answer on the first try.

 

For some odd reason he also very much likes the "Notes to self". In essence what the children do is write down how they solved a problem and their thoughts during the process. I have made my son explain to me how he solved a problem previously but writing it down again makes him less conscious of the possibility to be wrong because he can erase it. He is also practicing his writing as he quickly found out that for these notes to be useful they have to be clearly written. If I had asked him to do that, I would have met with opposition, he does not like to write but somehow this is different for him.

 

There is a subgroup of children who I think can very much benefit from this approach and it being less rigorous than AoPS is in my opinion not necessarily a bad thing. Not all children have AoPS math capabilities and the Armadillo allows those children to engage in the style but at an easier level.

 

My daughter on he other hand has so far been doing well in math but she is only finishing 4th grade. She is not ready for AoPS (and honestly I doubt she would do well with it) but this series is a great way of introducing her to algebraic topics and conceptual thinking. Arithmetic comes easy to her but I don't those conceptual leaps that her brother makes. She is very much a "explain it to me and then I can go from there" student and this series allows me to introduce her slowly to the discovery method because it asks questions she can answer. She learns quickly but isn't interested in anything academic, thinking is considered a nuisance (she also does not like to read). What she does want to do is to be better in math than her brothers.

 

I think this is why Math Mammoth works so well for her, the explanations are good, she can accept the concept as truth and move on, she still doesn't really have to think to get the answer and still do well in math. Nothing wrong with it per se but she is a very passive person overall and I find that potentially troublesome. She is capable and so I feel it is important that I give her the tools for success even if she decides not to use them at this point. Critical thinking is one of those tools that she will need throughout her adult life when the safety net of home is not there anymore.

 

The Armadillo seems to me to be a more integrated curriculum. I have come across several problems that ask the student what they think. The answer can be expressed mathematically but also philosophically which appeals to us, we do many of our studies in an integrated way even though I do separate them out according to subjects. Again, this is a plus for my son who tends to get bored if he has to do anything more than one time and these questions allow him to look for the answer from a different angle and then come back to the actual question.

 

So, not sure how helpful all of this is to you but maybe it gives you a better idea of what you can expect.

[Lilaclady]

Thanks for the review. That is helpful

[Kareni]

I hadn't heard of this curriculum before, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. And who could resist a title such as Jousting Armadillos?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[MamaSprout]

I like the looks of these. Thanks for sharing. My dd loves to play with math, but AoPS seems almost too hard-core for a kid who knows she wants to be a scientist, not a mathematician.

 

Can anyone speak to the layout? Is it a work text or a textbook+ workbook? What is the format of the answer key? My dd sometimes has a grandma as her math partner (neither grandma ever had algebra, but are willing helpers) Would this be a good side along for them? Could I follow up with a test to ensure learning?

 

Thanks!

 

Bean

[wapiti]

Bean, you can see the full text on the website. I can't answer your other questions about workbook and answer key but you might want to poke around the website.

[MamaSprout]

Bean, you can see the full text on the website. I can't answer your other questions about workbook and answer key but you might want to poke around the website.

 

 

Thanks- I have, already. When you go to the bookstore it has a "student workbook" for sale, but the sample looks like a text book. I'm trying to determine if it is a good fit for dd's learning style.

 

Bean

[MamaSprout]

I had a 20% off coupon and the "solutions manual" isn't really necessary as it is only a collection of how the children solved the problems. I dare say if you have a solid basic understanding of math you won't need it at least for the first book.

 

 

Coupon? did someone say "coupon"? Is this discount still available?

 

Bean

[Vida Winter]

Linus kindly sent me a sample chapter the other day -- so glad he popped in for an appearance!

[Clear Creek]

I like the looks of these. Thanks for sharing. My dd loves to play with math, but AoPS seems almost too hard-core for a kid who knows she wants to be a scientist, not a mathematician.

 

Can anyone speak to the layout? Is it a work text or a textbook+ workbook? What is the format of the answer key? My dd sometimes has a grandma as her math partner (neither grandma ever had algebra, but are willing helpers) Would this be a good side along for them? Could I follow up with a test to ensure learning?

 

Thanks!

 

Bean

 

I can only help with the layout...it is a paperback textbook; the student is meant to work the problems in a separate notebook.

[momto2Cs]

This looks like a fantastic resource! We're considering LOF for fall, but this might win out over it. I will have to show ds the books. I do like that it seems less "jumpy" than LOF does.

[Nicholas_mom]

I wish I could have a hard copy in hand to see it. I am concerned about how intensive it might be for teacher prep?

[Pen]

I wish I could have a hard copy in hand to see it. I am concerned about how intensive it might be for teacher prep?

 

Just started it on Monday. At least so far, the prep I wish I had done prior to starting would be to have gotten a spiral or otherwise bound notebook to go with it. Monday's loose pages already got lost within a short time of doing them. Yesterday I found a 3-ring notebook for whatever was not yet lost, and some reinforced looseleaf pages for the "Notes to Self" part of the work. Other than that, no teacher prep has thus far been needed.

 

What has been needed is for me to be there and sometimes also to participate during the math time since the program is set up for partners or groups to do together, and there is no other child working on this right now. The first day involved generating lists of things known (to start an understanding of how they are known and relate this to inductive versus deductive reasoning), which seemed to need more than one person to be doing it in order to make it interesting. Today an exercise involved using a pendulum (we used just a string with a roll of tape as a weight), and I needed to hold it as ds swung it and measured swing time.

[Nicholas_mom]

Pen - thanks for your reply.

[rdj2027]

It is teacher intensive in that if you don't have several children you need to participate in the discussion and some projects to make it fun (it was written for a classroom). It is not teacher intensive in terms of you having to learn the material ahead of time as it is written to the student and well explained. To be honest, I am having as much fun with this curriculum as my kids do and math is a subject I do with them anyways because they need me to sit with them for a variety of reasons.

[Nicholas_mom]

That's what I was wondering. That kind of stuff isn't teacher intensive to me because you do have some ideas, totally creating something new and doing more research to make it work, does.

 

I wish we could have a YAHOO Group to help transition or getting ideas for the discussion groups for homeschool setting. I have an only child, so sometimes its hard for me to think up ideas outside the box, so to speak.

[Pen]

That's what I was wondering. That kind of stuff isn't teacher intensive to me because you do have some ideas, totally creating something new and doing more research to make it work, does.

 

I wish we could have a YAHOO Group to help transition or getting ideas for the discussion groups for homeschool setting. I have an only child, so sometimes its hard for me to think up ideas outside the box, so to speak.

 

 

 

Couldn' t that be done right in this thread?

 

Incidentally, instead of reinforced looseleaf we decided to use a composition book with bound in pages for the Notes to Self. I think ds will keep that for a while and I liked Linus (the author)'s idea that tests can be with open Notes to Self. It also makes math provide writing practice for the summer. Ds is still enjoying it, but we are still on the first main section where everything is a lot of puzzles and games, so, we will see...

[claluck]

I am planning on starting this in the fall. I think it looks interesting and while I know I will need to sit down with my kiddo I think it will be good for us. He is fairly independent in all other subjects and while he is pretty good at math he does wonders if I sit with him while he does it. I am thinking of combining my 5th and 6th grader and doing them together. Not 100% yet.

Christina

[Lakeside]

 

 

Coupon? did someone say "coupon"? Is this discount still available?

 

Bean

 

Did anyone ever find out if there is a coupon available?

 

Thanks!

 

[MamaSprout]

Did anyone ever find out if there is a coupon available?

 

Thanks!

 

 

There is a 10% off sale right now through the website. Arbor Center and Linus are all very nice to work with.

 

Bean

[Lakeside]

 

There is a 10% off sale right now through the website. Arbor Center and Linus are all very nice to work with.

 

Bean

Thanks for responding! I couldn't find anything on the website that indicated a sale. Do you know where that was? Also, I was trying to figure out the cost with tax and shipping, but it appears as if I needed to create a Google Wallet. Does anybody know if that is the only way to purchase the books?

[MamaSprout]

hmm... I don't see it now. I also cannot find the coupon and order form that they sent when I requested a sample. Time to clean the desk, me thinks.

[Pen]

Thanks for responding! I couldn't find anything on the website that indicated a sale. Do you know where that was? Also, I was trying to figure out the cost with tax and shipping, but it appears as if I needed to create a Google Wallet. Does anybody know if that is the only way to purchase the books?

 

 

 

I called them on the phone and sent them a check by mail.

[Lakeside]

 

 

I called them on the phone and sent them a check by mail.

 

Thank you! That's helpful.