Awful situation with elderly dad and brother

[PrairieSong]

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[Tammyla]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: I have no advice, but hope something works out for the best.

[mom2myboys]

:grouphug:

This sounds like a difficult situation. I will pray that everyone can come to a solution that will be helpful to your family.

[SKL]

Good luck. I agree that from the sound of things, your brother is diagnosable with something. Not sure what that means in practical terms. He clearly isn't the person to rely on to care for your dad, but he may be OK taking care of just himself on Social Security / disability or whatever.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

:grouphug: Praying for you and your family.

 

As a mother of a kid with Asperger's, I can imagine having to tell my son what to do in many situations when he is an adult. If your brother has similar issues (which it sure sounds like he does), can you have a talk with him and explain to him that your father is getting old and since your brother lives there, he will need to do a, b & c? People like your brother tend to do better with specific instructions. Tell your brother he must check on your dad twice a day and make sure he brings him things he needs. This will help in the short run until you figure out what to do for the long term.

[Mrs Mungo]

I have family members like that. Yes, it is weird, but it is not outside the range of human behavior. There is no official diagnosis in my family either, but I would lay money on Asperger's too. I definitely think a counselor can help them understand what is expected of them, but I think they have to want help on some level. In this case, I think relying on him for your dad's care is out of the question. Can your dad get a nurse or someone who comes daily to check on him, if he doesn't want to go to an assisted living facility?

[PrairieSong]

:grouphug: Praying for you and your family.

 

As a mother of a kid with Asperger's, I can imagine having to tell my son what to do in many situations when he is an adult. If your brother has similar issues (which it sure sounds like he does), can you have a talk with him and explain to him that your father is getting old and since your brother lives there, he will need to do a, b & c? People like your brother tend to do better with specific instructions. Tell your brother he must check on your dad twice a day and make sure he brings him things he needs. This will help in the short run until you figure out what to do for the long term.

 

 

I can try, but he does not listen very well or follow through. He is very inconsistent and distractable. It is so hard to get through to him. In his own mind, he is always right. I am sure he thinks Dad will be okay. He never thinks of anything bad happening until it does. That is how my mother fell off the porch while he was supposed to be watching her, and how he gave our computer a major virus. When he was a kid he was supposed to be watching our youngest sister for a few minutes but he started reading a book and she toddled off. We scoured the neighborhood and found her three blocks away. She was 18 months old. Needless to say, Mom never asked him to do that again. He isn't malicious, just clueless and oblivious.

[PrairieSong]

Good luck. I agree that from the sound of things, your brother is diagnosable with something. Not sure what that means in practical terms. He clearly isn't the person to rely on to care for your dad, but he may be OK taking care of just himself on Social Security / disability or whatever.

 

 

I agree. I am hoping something can be diagnosed and that he can start getting disability if that is possible.

[PrairieSong]

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Edited June 21, 2016 by PrairieSong

[fairfarmhand]

Call the social services department in their area. They can walk you through this. If income is low enough they may qualify for services like meals on wheels and other elder care services. This means that there could be a stream of people in and out of the house throughout the week. Also, if your dad is determined that he wants to stay in the home, I might be tempted to pay a neighbor or nearby relative to come by daily to check on him.

[Anne in CA]

Call the social services department in their area. They can walk you through this. If income is low enough they may qualify for services like meals on wheels and other elder care services. This means that there could be a stream of people in and out of the house throughout the week. Also, if your dad is determined that he wants to stay in the home, I might be tempted to pay a neighbor or nearby relative to come by daily to check on him.

 

 

Not only do you need to do this, but somehow you need to plan what will become of your brother when your father passes away. He clearly will end up homeless if he is given an inheritance and left to himself. That happened to my FIL's autistic brother. He also was not diagnosed, lived with his parents until they died, and then was given the house to live in with a small monthly allowance to pay bills. He sold the house for $40,000 dollars (half of the value when the market was good) and became homeless in a matter of weeks. All the money was soon gone, and he was killed. It is thought the killer thought he (FIL's brother) still had some money. You really do need a plan to take care of your brother also.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: one of the side effects of your folks moving to assisted living would be that your brother would need to figure out what to do for himself and with himself before they died. it means he wouldn't be trying to figure it out while he was grieving, and you could all choose the time. (and it means you wouldn't be dealing with it all at once, either). what do your parents want?

 

its hard!

ann

[MomatHWTK]

Is there a reason you've not been more proactive in helping your brother? If he has a mental condition, he can't help who he is. I wonder if helping might be more effective than laughing. :confused1:

 

It sounds like you are angry with him for things that are outside his ability to change. If he has always been this way and never had diagnosis or treatment, be mad at your parents for dumping this in your lap but not the child-now adult who is who he is.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I can try, but he does not listen very well or follow through. He is very inconsistent and distractable. It is so hard to get through to him. In his own mind, he is always right. I am sure he thinks Dad will be okay. He never thinks of anything bad happening until it does. That is how my mother fell off the porch while he was supposed to be watching her, and how he gave our computer a major virus. When he was a kid he was supposed to be watching our youngest sister for a few minutes but he started reading a book and she toddled off. We scoured the neighborhood and found her three blocks away. She was 18 months old. Needless to say, Mom never asked him to do that again. He isn't malicious, just clueless and oblivious.

 

 

Does he have a watch or phone or something you set to remind him to check on your dad and ask your dad if he needs anything? Again, this is just a short term fix. I think your brother needs to be made aware that he has to figure out what to do before your dad is gone. Maybe he doesn't understand that he will not be able to stay in the house by himself or whatever the situation may be.

[PrairieSong]

Is there a reason you've not been more proactive in helping your brother? If he has a mental condition, he can't help who he is. I wonder if helping might be more effective than laughing. :confused1:

 

I have tried for years. I tried talking to my mom before she passed away. My dad did kick my brother out of their house years ago, after he had stayed for two years. My mom kept giving him money. I have tried talking to my brother but to no avail. He tells me to just focus on my own family, not on him. I asked him if he had any kind of plan for what he would do when Dad is gone. He did not have an answer. Truly, I have tried.

 

I laugh because it is a ludicrous story, one of many, and because I would rather laugh than cry. My dad laughed telling me. He could hardly believe it while it was happening. I am not trying to mock my brother. It may seem that way. I wish he would get help but I cannot force him to do so. Maybe I should not have shared that story. It just illustrates that he does not have much social awareness.

 

Now that Dad is older, he feels helpless to do anything. He doesn't have the energy to kick my brother out. I think Dad called me--in fact left me two voice mail messages because I had misplaced my phone--because he knows it is a bad situation and is only getting worse.

 

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I'm sorry Patty. Do you have other siblings, or maybe cousins, who could help you figure out what to do?

[MomatHWTK]

Your Dad needs to involve social services and come up with a plan. Otherwise, he's in the situation he has chosen, not much you can do about that. For yourself, plan to involve social services should you need to in the future. You might research what adult services are available and what the criteria is to qualify. But, you are correct, to some extent our system does not allow family to intervene in an adult's situation unless there is an imminent threat.

[PrairieSong]

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Edited June 21, 2016 by PrairieSong

[PrairieSong]

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[MomatHWTK]

That's a tough situation to have person capable of work intellectually but not mentally. I am afraid that he will face homelessness if he doesn't choose to get help or your father doesn't set up a special needs trust for him. He might qualify for disability support due to mental incapacity but he would have to go through the qualification process. If he didn't qualify that might be an eye opener for him that he needs to organize himself.

 

Let me think...

 

Financial guardianship, a spendthrift or special needs trust, a life estate in the home with ownership actually held by you would keep him from selling the home and being homeless... The special needs trust would be necessary to allow him to qualify for some types of needs based benefits. I think the rules are different if he qualifies for disabilities as being dependent on an adult (i.e. your father) who qualifies...

 

All this is complicated. If you have an area program for adults with disabilities start there. Those folks can give you recommendations and information and possibly refer you to a pro bono attorney who will walk you through the process. At the very least get as much information as you can so that if you go to a fee-based attorney you will know you are getting your money's worth. Getting things done while people are capable and lucid is WAY less expensive and effective than trying to unring the bell later.

 

I really appreciate you responding so kindly. Your situation and words obviously hit very close to home and I am a bit sensitive about the whole mental illness thing given recent events.

[PrairieSong]

Wow, thanks for all that info. Much to ponder. I'm sorry you are dealing with mental illness in your family. It's so hard. I will try to be more sensitive in how I write and talk about it.

 

With my brother, it's difficult because he has never been diagnosed. We strongly suspect something is wrong but we can't give it a name. It's like stumbling in the dark. He has always been my odd, quirky, yet highly intelligent brother who just never got it together. I used to actually have long, rambling conversations with him, starting out talking about algebra and ending up with him attempting to explain quantum mechanics to 14yo me! I miss that.

 

It's hard seeing him holed up in his bedroom with little outside contact. It's hard to see my dad frustrated by living with him, knowing he has played a part in how it turned out. It's worrisome to think of my dad getting older and more frail, living in a big house he can't take care of, being ill and having J be oblivious to it.

 

Thanks for listening. I hope you find some answers, too.

 

That's a tough situation to have person capable of work intellectually but not mentally. I am afraid that he will face homelessness if he doesn't choose to get help or your father doesn't set up a special needs trust for him. He might qualify for disability support due to mental incapacity but he would have to go through the qualification process. If he didn't qualify that might be an eye opener for him that he needs to organize himself.

 

Let me think...

 

Financial guardianship, a spendthrift or special needs trust, a life estate in the home with ownership actually held by you would keep him from selling the home and being homeless... The special needs trust would be necessary to allow him to qualify for some types of needs based benefits. I think the rules are different if he qualifies for disabilities as being dependent on an adult (i.e. your father) who qualifies...

 

All this is complicated. If you have an area program for adults with disabilities start there. Those folks can give you recommendations and information and possibly refer you to a pro bono attorney who will walk you through the process. At the very least get as much information as you can so that if you go to a fee-based attorney you will know you are getting your money's worth. Getting things done while people are capable and lucid is WAY less expensive and effective than trying to unring the bell later.

 

I really appreciate you responding so kindly. Your situation and words obviously hit very close to home and I am a bit sensitive about the whole mental illness thing given recent events.

 

[fairfarmhand]

Another thought is that your dad needs to consider NOW how the inheritance will go. He sounds like he is aware that your brother does not function normally, so he may want to appoint a trustee over your brother's inheritance portion to keep folks from taking advantage of him.

[Rebecca VA]

This is very interesting to me. I've been reading books by Temple Grandin and her mother this week, and both of them are very emphatic that parents need to force (gently, but firmly) autistic children out of their comfort zone and into the real world, every day, very purposefully. Of course, your parents did not have the benefit of that advice and tried to do what they could with your brother. It's a shame that they did the wrong things, and your dad is having to suffer the consequences.

 

Would it be possible to move your dad in with you for a while? He might need to get away from your brother and in with a happy, loving family, especially since he's been sick.

[MomatHWTK]

This is very interesting to me. I've been reading books by Temple Grandin and her mother this week, and both of them are very emphatic that parents need to force (gently, but firmly) autistic children out of their comfort zone and into the real world, every day, very purposefully.

 

This is good advice and not the first time I've come across a similar sentiment. It is so hard as a parent to know when to push and when to comfort. But ulitmately regardless of whether the child is SN or not, we as parents need to prepare them for the world as best we can. Tough stuff some days.

[Alicia64]

I mean this post with total respect and kindness but I agree that it sounds like your brother has Asperger's. Dh has Asperger's and it helped me immensely to learn that people with Asperger's often (not always) don't show compassion towards sick people. It used to drive me crazy that I'd be on the bathroom floor dealing with the flu and DH would come in and yell, "Why are you on the floor?!" Well, duh. This happened to me for years before I finally learned that it's part of Asperger's.

 

Anyway, the greatest thing about Asperger's is that the people can learn new skills. But the can be extremely logical so you want to approach them very matter of factly and calmly. Also, if they sense that they're being attacked in any fashion (our word would be criticized, but my husband calls fairly benign things attacks), they'll shut down.

 

So I'd suggest giving him a checklist -- and keep it short -- when Dad does or says blank, blank, please call me or call the dr. or the neighbor or whatever. But make it super concrete. And go into it saying how helpful he can be. And finish it up in the same way.

 

That's just my .02 after living for 22 years with someone who is an absolute angel, but very difficult in certain ways. I'd recommend ordering a few books on adult Asperger's from Amazon. They're quick reads and will help tremendously.

 

Alley

[PrairieSong]

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[PrairieSong]

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[nono]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[butterflymommy]

If your brother is that smart I doubt it's laziness. A lazy person couldn't get three college degrees, even in "soft" subjects. It could be that your brother is more impaired than your dad, but you can't see it because you've known him all your life.

 

He cannot be forced into the psychiatric system for a diagnosis against his will. You can only try to force treatment if he's an imminent violent threat to himself or others. But it definitely sounds like you need to stop expecting him to care for your dad just because he's under the same roof.

[PrairieSong]

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[Kathryn]

How is your relationship with your brother? If you gave him some reading material, do you think he would be open to the possibility? Speak to him logically about what is going to happen to him when your dad passes away, not about how his behavior affects others. Making him feel cornered about his own behavior is only going to shut him down, but if you come at it with being concerned about HIM, you might have a better shot of getting through to him.

[MomatHWTK]

:grouphug:

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[mumto2]

:grouphug:

[Pod's mum]

A good friend has an elder brother (late 50's?), who was only diagnosed with Asperger's a few years ago. He worked but always lived with their widowed mum.

Their mum has been in a nursing home for a few years now (with advanced demensia). The brother goes over every day and has a nursing home lunch with mum.

Mum is no longer able to talk or eat real food, but he never talked to her much anyway and he enjoys the meals. The siblings were relieved when he was finally diagnosed and was eligable for some services (and explained a bit to them).

 

But obviously your brother would have to want to do that.

Good luck on your long road.